| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Bill M" |
| Date: |
07 Jun 2006 02:20:44 PM |
| Object: |
SOUL AND LIFE AFTER DEATH |
The concept of humans having a soul is rather nebulous.
Firstly, archaeological evidence shows that humans have evolved over a
period of 5,000,000 years from Chimpanzees to a variety of early humanoids
to present day humans.
We did not just appear on earth 6,000 years ago. There are also presently a
number of clearly different species of humans such as Orientals, Africans,
Europeans, American Indians, South Sea Islanders, and Australian Aborigines.
During this long evolutionary process, when did humanoids acquire a soul?
Children are supposedly born with a soul. New born children have no speech
ability. They have no mobility. They have no sense or ability of right or
wrong. Is the soul not functioning?
All people grow old and in their 80's and 90's usually lose or seriously
decline in their mental and physical faculties do to Alzheimer's and other
deteriorating conditions of age.
Does the soul still operate efficiently or at all?
Then people die and go to the grave or the incinerator and their soul
supposedly goes to some spiritual world of Heaven or Hell for eternity.
Why did this loving and caring god creator put mankind through the many
tortures of a limited life on Earth before providing his Heaven or Hell for
eternity?
We have never heard directly and verifiably from the dead. We have never
heard verifiably from any god. All our knowledge about the after life is
based on the 'claims' of other humans.
There are thousands of god beliefs. If there is a 'real' god why does he not
clearly announce from his heaven that he is the 'real' god and all the
others are fakes?
Why does he permit all the fakes and not smite them?
Could all these claims merely be the creation of man to provide church
leaders with an ability to control their flock and man with a psychological
protective shield to deal with the panic fear of the finality of death?
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| User: "boner" |
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| Title: Re: SOUL AND LIFE AFTER DEATH |
13 Jun 2006 03:44:26 AM |
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"Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:yGFhg.14276$EX2.2742@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
The concept of humans having a soul is rather nebulous.
Firstly, archaeological evidence shows that humans have evolved over a
period of 5,000,000 years from Chimpanzees to a variety of early humanoids
to present day humans.
We did not just appear on earth 6,000 years ago. There are also presently
a
number of clearly different species of humans such as Orientals, Africans,
Europeans, American Indians, South Sea Islanders, and Australian
Aborigines.
During this long evolutionary process, when did humanoids acquire a soul?
Children are supposedly born with a soul. New born children have no speech
ability. They have no mobility. They have no sense or ability of right or
wrong. Is the soul not functioning?
All people grow old and in their 80's and 90's usually lose or seriously
decline in their mental and physical faculties do to Alzheimer's and other
deteriorating conditions of age.
Does the soul still operate efficiently or at all?
Then people die and go to the grave or the incinerator and their soul
supposedly goes to some spiritual world of Heaven or Hell for eternity.
Why did this loving and caring god creator put mankind through the many
tortures of a limited life on Earth before providing his Heaven or Hell
for
eternity?
We have never heard directly and verifiably from the dead. We have never
heard verifiably from any god. All our knowledge about the after life is
based on the 'claims' of other humans.
There are thousands of god beliefs. If there is a 'real' god why does he
not
clearly announce from his heaven that he is the 'real' god and all the
others are fakes?
Why does he permit all the fakes and not smite them?
Could all these claims merely be the creation of man to provide church
leaders with an ability to control their flock and man with a
psychological
protective shield to deal with the panic fear of the finality of death?
Hey Bill,
Do you ask these questions because you were raised Christian, and now as a
mature adult, find yourself shopping around for something to believe in?
Me too.
JP
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: SOUL AND LIFE AFTER DEATH |
13 Jun 2006 06:03:44 AM |
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"boner" <bonerr@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:KVujg.57547$mh.6837@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
"Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:yGFhg.14276$EX2.2742@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
The concept of humans having a soul is rather nebulous.
Firstly, archaeological evidence shows that humans have evolved over a
period of 5,000,000 years from Chimpanzees to a variety of early
humanoids
to present day humans.
We did not just appear on earth 6,000 years ago. There are also presently
a
number of clearly different species of humans such as Orientals,
Africans,
Europeans, American Indians, South Sea Islanders, and Australian
Aborigines.
That's false. As long as they can interbreed, they are of the same
species.
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| User: "Bill M" |
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| Title: Re: SOUL AND LIFE AFTER DEATH |
13 Jun 2006 09:53:29 AM |
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"Pastor Frank" <PastorFrank@christfirst.org> wrote in message
news:87a5b$448eb560$d1d894d8$27621@PRIMUS.CA...
"boner" <bonerr@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:KVujg.57547$mh.6837@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
"Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:yGFhg.14276$EX2.2742@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
The concept of humans having a soul is rather nebulous.
Firstly, archaeological evidence shows that humans have evolved over a
period of 5,000,000 years from Chimpanzees to a variety of early
humanoids
to present day humans.
We did not just appear on earth 6,000 years ago. There are also
presently
a
number of clearly different species of humans such as Orientals,
Africans,
Europeans, American Indians, South Sea Islanders, and Australian
Aborigines.
That's false. As long as they can interbreed, they are of the same
species.
You are correct. I should have used the term 'breed". The point is the same.
There are numerous physically different breeds of humans.
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| User: "EJ" |
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| Title: Re: SOUL AND LIFE AFTER DEATH |
27 Apr 2007 08:18:59 AM |
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"Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:yGFhg.14276$EX2.2742@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
The concept of humans having a soul is rather nebulous.
Firstly, archaeological evidence shows that humans have evolved over a
period of 5,000,000 years from Chimpanzees to a variety of early humanoids
to present day humans.
We did not just appear on earth 6,000 years ago. There are also presently
a number of clearly different species of humans such as Orientals,
Africans, Europeans, American Indians, South Sea Islanders, and Australian
Aborigines.
During this long evolutionary process, when did humanoids acquire a soul?
Children are supposedly born with a soul. New born children have no speech
ability. They have no mobility. They have no sense or ability of right or
wrong. Is the soul not functioning?
All people grow old and in their 80's and 90's usually lose or seriously
decline in their mental and physical faculties do to Alzheimer's and other
deteriorating conditions of age.
Does the soul still operate efficiently or at all?
Then people die and go to the grave or the incinerator and their soul
supposedly goes to some spiritual world of Heaven or Hell for eternity.
Why did this loving and caring god creator put mankind through the many
tortures of a limited life on Earth before providing his Heaven or Hell
for eternity?
We have never heard directly and verifiably from the dead. We have never
heard verifiably from any god. All our knowledge about the after life is
based on the 'claims' of other humans.
There are thousands of god beliefs. If there is a 'real' god why does he
not clearly announce from his heaven that he is the 'real' god and all the
others are fakes?
Why does he permit all the fakes and not smite them?
I like the points you are raising.
Do *all* living beings have souls?
If souls really exist, and we go elsewhere after death, how do we recognise
each other? Do we appear as we did on Earth? Sounds a bit convenient. How do
we communicate? God teaches us all English? There is a universal language of
the souls?
A still-born..? Does it get to have a soul? Does it go to the afterlife,
does it interact and communicate and experience the afterlife the same way a
30 year old would have?
Could all these claims merely be the creation of man to provide church
leaders with an ability to control their flock and man with a
psychological protective shield to deal with the panic fear of the
finality of death?
While I would love to believe in the afterlife, that I will be re-united
with the loves of my life, I truly fear your statement is most likely the
truth.
Life would be pretty unbearable and without purpose if we knew we were all
doomed to dissolve out of existence for eternity.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: SOUL AND LIFE AFTER DEATH |
27 Apr 2007 01:49:05 PM |
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On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:18:59 +0100, "EJ" <xxxdstgsa@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Life would be pretty unbearable and without purpose if we knew we were all
doomed to dissolve out of existence for eternity.
Why?
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: SOUL AND LIFE AFTER DEATH |
28 Apr 2007 12:21:58 PM |
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"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:5ch433p0eucq13c9qganvt664stuv342ue@4ax.com...
On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:18:59 +0100, "EJ" <xxxdstgsa@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Life would be pretty unbearable and without purpose if we knew we were all
doomed to dissolve out of existence for eternity.
Why?
..
Not everyone worships the oblivion of death like atheists are wont to.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "Mike" |
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| Title: Re: SOUL AND LIFE AFTER DEATH |
27 Apr 2007 02:01:44 PM |
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On Apr 27, 2:49 pm, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:18:59 +0100, "EJ" <xxxdst...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Life would be pretty unbearable and without purpose if we knew we were all
doomed to dissolve out of existence for eternity.
Why?
As an ancient philosopher once noted: We do not resent the eons
of the past during which we did not exist. Why then is our future non-
existence so troubling?
If the non-existence of death is such an awful thing, then we
should logically feel more pity for Aristotle than Shakespeare on the
grounds that death is a bad thing that Aristotle has suffered for more
centuries. But somehow that makes no emotional sense.
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| User: "Tim Bruening" |
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| Title: Re: SOUL AND LIFE AFTER DEATH |
08 Jun 2006 11:57:13 PM |
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Bill M wrote:
The concept of humans having a soul is rather nebulous.
Firstly, archaeological evidence shows that humans have evolved over a
period of 5,000,000 years from Chimpanzees to a variety of early humanoids
to present day humans.
We did not just appear on earth 6,000 years ago. There are also presently a
number of clearly different species of humans such as Orientals, Africans,
Europeans, American Indians, South Sea Islanders, and Australian Aborigines.
They are not different species, since they can interbreed, producing children
who can likewise breed without large numbers of birth defects.
During this long evolutionary process, when did humanoids acquire a soul?
Children are supposedly born with a soul. New born children have no speech
ability. They have no mobility. They have no sense or ability of right or
wrong. Is the soul not functioning?
All people grow old and in their 80's and 90's usually lose or seriously
decline in their mental and physical faculties do to Alzheimer's and other
deteriorating conditions of age.
Does the soul still operate efficiently or at all?
And what about brain dead people such as Terri Schiavo?
Then people die and go to the grave or the incinerator and their soul
supposedly goes to some spiritual world of Heaven or Hell for eternity.
Why did this loving and caring god creator put mankind through the many
tortures of a limited life on Earth before providing his Heaven or Hell for
eternity?
We have never heard directly and verifiably from the dead. We have never
heard verifiably from any god. All our knowledge about the after life is
based on the 'claims' of other humans.
There are thousands of god beliefs. If there is a 'real' god why does he not
clearly announce from his heaven that he is the 'real' god and all the
others are fakes?
Why does he permit all the fakes and not smite them?
Could all these claims merely be the creation of man to provide church
leaders with an ability to control their flock and man with a psychological
protective shield to deal with the panic fear of the finality of death?
.
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| User: "Frank Mayhar" |
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| Title: Re: SOUL AND LIFE AFTER DEATH |
07 Jun 2006 05:06:03 PM |
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On Wed, 07 Jun 2006 16:20:44 -0400, Bill M wrote:
The concept of humans having a soul is rather nebulous.
Um, yeah. Whatever.
Firstly, archaeological evidence shows that humans have evolved over a
period of 5,000,000 years from Chimpanzees to a variety of early humanoids
to present day humans.
No it doesn't. It shows that both humans and chimpanzees evolved from a
common ancestor. That is, there was a species of primate, a few million
years ago, from which both chimpanzees and humans derive.
We did not just appear on earth 6,000 years ago. There are also
presently a number of clearly different species of humans such as
Orientals, Africans, Europeans, American Indians, South Sea Islanders,
and Australian Aborigines.
Wrong again, oh ignorant one. The so-called "races" aren't even
subspecies of Homo Sap. There are trivial differences but we're all one
species of primate. This would have been obvious to you if you had spent
a minute or two reading about the subject.
["Soul" ***** elided.]
Could all these claims merely be the creation of man to provide church
leaders with an ability to control their flock and man with a
psychological protective shield to deal with the panic fear of the
finality of death?
And for other reasons, yeah.
--
Frank Mayhar frank@exit.com http://www.exit.com/
Exit Consulting http://www.gpsclock.com/
http://www.exit.com/blog/frank/
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: SOUL AND LIFE AFTER DEATH |
07 Jun 2006 03:09:07 PM |
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On Wed, 7 Jun 2006 15:20:44 -0400, in alt.atheism , "Bill M"
<wmech@bellsouth.net> in <yGFhg.14276$EX2.2742@bignews5.bellsouth.net>
wrote:
The concept of humans having a soul is rather nebulous.
Firstly, archaeological evidence shows that humans have evolved over a
period of 5,000,000 years from Chimpanzees to a variety of early humanoids
to present day humans.
We did not just appear on earth 6,000 years ago.
What does that have to do with a soul? Hindus think the Universe is
trillions of years old and they believe in a soul.
There are also presently a
number of clearly different species of humans such as Orientals, Africans,
Europeans, American Indians, South Sea Islanders, and Australian Aborigines.
If "species" has the biological meaning then there is only one species
of human. If you are trying to use "species" with an ancient Greek
definition then you will confuse people. You will also have to defend
your claim that those are the appropriate distinction to make
regarding humans.
During this long evolutionary process, when did humanoids acquire a soul?
An interesting question, perhaps, but not relevant to the question of
whether or not souls exist. I don't know when humans developed the
ability to make tools to make tools, but that does not mean that
ability does not exist.
Children are supposedly born with a soul.
Depends on how you take your theology. There are those for whom that
is an important question.
New born children have no speech
ability. They have no mobility. They have no sense or ability of right or
wrong. Is the soul not functioning?
Do you think there is any soul believing person who did not know that
human babies were born without the ability to speak? The soul
functions, the body is not yet ready to speak.
All people grow old and in their 80's and 90's usually lose or seriously
decline in their mental and physical faculties do to Alzheimer's and other
deteriorating conditions of age.
Which has zilch to do with the soul.
Does the soul still operate efficiently or at all?
Then people die and go to the grave or the incinerator and their soul
supposedly goes to some spiritual world of Heaven or Hell for eternity.
Why did this loving and caring god creator put mankind through the many
tortures of a limited life on Earth before providing his Heaven or Hell for
eternity?
Which also has nothing to do with the existence of a soul.
We have never heard directly and verifiably from the dead. We have never
heard verifiably from any god. All our knowledge about the after life is
based on the 'claims' of other humans.
There are thousands of god beliefs. If there is a 'real' god why does he not
clearly announce from his heaven that he is the 'real' god and all the
others are fakes?
Why does he permit all the fakes and not smite them?
Could all these claims merely be the creation of man to provide church
leaders with an ability to control their flock and man with a psychological
protective shield to deal with the panic fear of the finality of death?
Were you going to talk about souls?
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
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| User: "Mary Walker" |
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| Title: Re: SOUL AND LIFE AFTER DEATH |
07 Jun 2006 05:23:45 PM |
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What does that have to do with a soul? Hindus think the Universe is
trillions of years old and they believe in a soul.
LOL. Well if Hindus say that - then it *MUST* be true !!! (cough)
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: SOUL AND LIFE AFTER DEATH |
08 Jun 2006 09:00:41 AM |
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On Wed, 7 Jun 2006 23:23:45 +0100, in alt.atheism , "Mary Walker"
<mary@walker.com> in <448751fa_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com> wrote:
What does that have to do with a soul? Hindus think the Universe is
trillions of years old and they believe in a soul.
LOL. Well if Hindus say that - then it *MUST* be true !!! (cough)
Where did you get the notion that I thought that?
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
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| User: "leo" |
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| Title: Re: SOUL AND LIFE AFTER DEATH |
07 Jun 2006 04:13:51 PM |
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Matt Silberstein ha escrito:
On Wed, 7 Jun 2006 15:20:44 -0400, in alt.atheism , "Bill M"
<wmech@bellsouth.net> in <yGFhg.14276$EX2.2742@bignews5.bellsouth.net>
wrote:
The concept of humans having a soul is rather nebulous.
Firstly, archaeological evidence shows that humans have evolved over a
period of 5,000,000 years from Chimpanzees to a variety of early humanoids
to present day humans.
We did not just appear on earth 6,000 years ago.
What does that have to do with a soul? Hindus think the Universe is
trillions of years old and they believe in a soul.
There are also presently a
number of clearly different species of humans such as Orientals, Africans,
Europeans, American Indians, South Sea Islanders, and Australian Aborigines.
If "species" has the biological meaning then there is only one species
of human. If you are trying to use "species" with an ancient Greek
definition then you will confuse people. You will also have to defend
your claim that those are the appropriate distinction to make
regarding humans.
During this long evolutionary process, when did humanoids acquire a soul?
An interesting question, perhaps, but not relevant to the question of
whether or not souls exist. I don't know when humans developed the
ability to make tools to make tools, but that does not mean that
ability does not exist.
Children are supposedly born with a soul.
Depends on how you take your theology. There are those for whom that
is an important question.
New born children have no speech
ability. They have no mobility. They have no sense or ability of right or
wrong. Is the soul not functioning?
Do you think there is any soul believing person who did not know that
human babies were born without the ability to speak? The soul
functions, the body is not yet ready to speak.
All people grow old and in their 80's and 90's usually lose or seriously
decline in their mental and physical faculties do to Alzheimer's and other
deteriorating conditions of age.
Which has zilch to do with the soul.
Does the soul still operate efficiently or at all?
Then people die and go to the grave or the incinerator and their soul
supposedly goes to some spiritual world of Heaven or Hell for eternity.
Why did this loving and caring god creator put mankind through the many
tortures of a limited life on Earth before providing his Heaven or Hell for
eternity?
Which also has nothing to do with the existence of a soul.
We have never heard directly and verifiably from the dead. We have never
heard verifiably from any god. All our knowledge about the after life is
based on the 'claims' of other humans.
There are thousands of god beliefs. If there is a 'real' god why does he not
clearly announce from his heaven that he is the 'real' god and all the
others are fakes?
Why does he permit all the fakes and not smite them?
Could all these claims merely be the creation of man to provide church
leaders with an ability to control their flock and man with a psychological
protective shield to deal with the panic fear of the finality of death?
Were you going to talk about souls?
--
Matt Silberstein
Acheologist had discovered fosils of human souls 5 to 6 million years
old. They are going to extract a little ADN of them to see if these
souls are related genetically to Reverend Patterson or any other fundy
stars of today.
Leopoldo
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: SOUL AND LIFE AFTER DEATH |
08 Jun 2006 09:00:09 AM |
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On 7 Jun 2006 14:13:51 -0700, in alt.atheism , "leo"
<leopoldo.perdomo@gmail.com> in
<1149714831.328682.114930@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> wrote:
[snip]
Acheologist had discovered fosils of human souls 5 to 6 million years
old. They are going to extract a little ADN of them to see if these
souls are related genetically to Reverend Patterson or any other fundy
stars of today.
I did not know that ADN survive that long. Do you have any kooky
poorly done web page references with more on this topic?
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
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