Religions > Atheism > Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Yang, AthD h.c, Kicking AWOLs Cocaine Snorting Ass" |
| Date: |
20 Oct 2006 08:22:51 PM |
| Object: |
Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
Yep, that vaunted Christian moral superiority
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=40880
YONGSAN GARRISON, South Korea — A soldier was sentenced Wednesday to
two years in prison after pleading guilty to charges he raped and
committed adultery with a married female airman.
During his court-martial in the Yongsan Garrison courtroom on
Wednesday, Pfc. Wesshonte L. Taylor, 21, of the 8th Army’s G6
communications and electronics section, said he forced himself upon
the female airman despite her objections.
....
Taylor’s mother, a MINISTER and retired soldier, said during testimony
via telephone that she would morally support her son and continue to
pray for both him and the woman.
-----
Yang
a.a. #28
AthD (h.c.) conferred by the regents of the LCL
a.a. pastor #-273.15, the most frigid church of Celcius nee Kelvin
EAC Econometric Forecast and Sorcery Division
The Bush 'balanced' budget: -2 trillion and worsening
The Bush 'economic' policy: 12.5 million FEWER jobs than Clinton and counting
The Bush Iraq lie: -2786 GIs, one friend's co-worker's son and mounting
Having Bush ***** up my country: Worthless
newsgroups Yang promises not to revenge post
in response to Sound-of-Trumpet's *****:
rec.art.scifi.written
sci.archaeology
soc.history.what-if
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| User: "Kater Moggin" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
01 Nov 2006 12:53:31 AM |
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Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
And in many cases
I'll stick to the cases we're discussing, especially since
you didn't name any others. When you contend the Bible
requires Christian mothers to kill their disrespectful kids you
completely miss the many places where the NT says Jesus
abolished the law. "If you actually read your bible, you would
have come across these statements."
Homosexuality is not an act.
False by your own words. You plainly referred to "the ban
on homosexuality" in the OT, which prohibits the _act_ in
which "a man lie with mankind, as with womankind." Exactly the
same act, namely men screwing men, that Romans 1 is
condemning in the verses you earlier erased from your non-reply.
-- Moggin
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
01 Nov 2006 07:56:45 AM |
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On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 06:53:31 GMT, Kater Moggin <kimmerian@fastmail.fm>
wrote:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
Homosexuality is not an act.
False by your own words. You plainly referred to "the ban
on homosexuality" in the OT
Sorry if you don't understand simple English.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"religion did for *****, what Stonehenge did for rocks"
- The World Famous Tink
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
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| User: "Kater Moggin" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
01 Nov 2006 08:28:13 PM |
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Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
Sorry if you don't understand simple English.
Sorry you're disputed by your own words. You referred to
"the ban on homosexuality" in the OT, which prohibits men
screwing men, despite your later claim that isn't homosexuality.
-- Moggin
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
02 Nov 2006 07:39:54 AM |
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On Thu, 02 Nov 2006 02:28:13 GMT, Kater Moggin <kimmerian@fastmail.fm>
wrote:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
Sorry if you don't understand simple English.
Sorry you're disputed by your own words.
You couldn't disrupt a breath. Go play with the other children.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to
the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his
children smart.
- H. L. Mencken
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| User: "Kater Moggin" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
02 Nov 2006 08:49:34 PM |
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Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
Kater Moggin <kimmerian@fastmail.fm>:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
Sorry if you don't understand simple English.
Sorry you're disputed by your own words.
You couldn't disrupt a breath. Go play with the other children.
Now you've erased your own words where I showed they argue
against you. You're trying to run away from your previous
reference to "the ban on homosexuality" in Leviticus, where men
are prohibited from screwing men, contrary to your more
recent claim that act isn't homosexuality. Like I said, you're
debating with yourself -- and losing.
-- Moggin
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| User: "smw" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentencedfor Rape of Woman |
25 Oct 2006 09:23:38 AM |
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Al Klein wrote:
On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 22:23:50 GMT, Kater Moggin <kimmerian@fastmail.fm>
wrote:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
But not on homosexuality
False by your own words.
Your arguing what the Bible DOES say - I'm arguing that a ban on men
having sex with men IS NOT a ban on homosexuality. But I guess you
just don't know the difference.
I'd be happy to grant the difference, but what made you think that
Leviticus did apply to homosexuality and Romans did not? They both refer
to homosexual acts only.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
25 Oct 2006 11:06:08 AM |
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On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 14:23:38 GMT, smw <smwei@ameritech.net> wrote:
Al Klein wrote:
Your arguing what the Bible DOES say - I'm arguing that a ban on men
having sex with men IS NOT a ban on homosexuality. But I guess you
just don't know the difference.
I'd be happy to grant the difference, but what made you think that
Leviticus did apply to homosexuality and Romans did not? They both refer
to homosexual acts only.
I didn't make that distinction - some CHRISTIANS believe that anything
prohibited in Leviticus is allowed, since Levitical law no longer
applies.
The two - Levitical law applying or not, and whether it prohibits
homosexuality - are completely separate issues.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education and social
ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he
had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death."
-Albert Einstein
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This signature was made by SigChanger.
You can find SigChanger at: http://www.phranc.nl/
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| User: "smw" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentencedfor Rape of Woman |
25 Oct 2006 11:36:55 AM |
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Al Klein wrote:
On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 14:23:38 GMT, smw <smwei@ameritech.net> wrote:
Al Klein wrote:
Your arguing what the Bible DOES say - I'm arguing that a ban on men
having sex with men IS NOT a ban on homosexuality. But I guess you
just don't know the difference.
I'd be happy to grant the difference, but what made you think that
Leviticus did apply to homosexuality and Romans did not? They both refer
to homosexual acts only.
I didn't make that distinction - some CHRISTIANS believe that anything
prohibited in Leviticus is allowed, since Levitical law no longer
applies.
Actually, you wrote:
They don't seen to realize that doing so would eliminate the ban on
homosexuality, the Ten Commandments (which ten, though?), etc.
So you meant to write: "they don't.... would eliminate what they think
to be the ban on homosexuality, even though I think that Leviticus only
bans homosexual acts"?
The two - Levitical law applying or not, and whether it prohibits
homosexuality - are completely separate issues.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
25 Oct 2006 02:42:24 PM |
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On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 16:36:55 GMT, smw <smwei@ameritech.net> wrote:
Al Klein wrote:
On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 14:23:38 GMT, smw <smwei@ameritech.net> wrote:
Al Klein wrote:
Your arguing what the Bible DOES say - I'm arguing that a ban on men
having sex with men IS NOT a ban on homosexuality. But I guess you
just don't know the difference.
I'd be happy to grant the difference, but what made you think that
Leviticus did apply to homosexuality and Romans did not? They both refer
to homosexual acts only.
I didn't make that distinction - some CHRISTIANS believe that anything
prohibited in Leviticus is allowed, since Levitical law no longer
applies.
Actually, you wrote:
They don't seen to realize that doing so would eliminate the ban on
homosexuality, the Ten Commandments (which ten, though?), etc.
So you meant to write:
They don't seen to realize that according to their beliefs doing so
would eliminate the ban on homosexuality, the Ten Commandments (which
ten, though?), etc.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"Never in human history have such genocide and cruelty been
witnessed. Such a genocide was never seen in the time of the pharaohs nor
of Hitler nor of Mussolini."
- Mehmet Elkatmi, head of Turkish parliament's human rights commission
on Bush's genocide in the Iraq war. 11-28-2004
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| User: "Kater Moggin" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
23 Oct 2006 02:32:42 PM |
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Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
You evidently don't know the difference between having sex with
someone of the same gender and homosexuality.
You're obviously dodging. First you didn't understand the
Christian scriptures often deny the Mosaic law, then you
missed the criticism of homosexuality in Rom. 1, even after I'd
pointed out the passage to you. You also overlooked its
larger theme, stating that you don't "acknowledge the Christian
god" in reply to an argument that rightly or wrongly says
you're without excuse, since he's knowable through his Creation.
But wait, that's not all! You idiotically pretended I had
claimed "everything not mentioned in the NT is allowed" in
response to my point that Matthew 19:16-22 and parallels affirm
part of the decalogue -- the bans on stealing, on bearing
false witness, etc. -- while omitting all the entries regarding
Creator-worship.
You wrongly denied Jesus places the 4th Commandment on its
head. "The sabbath was made for man and not man for the
sabbath" inverts the Creator's law in the ways that I explained.
And when I noted that Jesus and his disciples break the
sabbath by performing healings and picking corn, you mistakenly
contended he was practicing emergency medicine. In the
Gospels he's healing chronic ailments: something he could have
done any day of the week.
-- Moggin
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
23 Oct 2006 07:17:37 PM |
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On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 19:32:42 GMT, Kater Moggin <kimmerian@fastmail.fm>
wrote:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
You evidently don't know the difference between having sex with
someone of the same gender and homosexuality.
You're obviously dodging. First you didn't understand the
Christian scriptures often deny the Mosaic law
You mean the part about the Law being in effect as long as heaven and
earth still exist?
then you
missed the criticism of homosexuality in Rom. 1, even after I'd
pointed out the passage to you.
And, as I pointed out to you, Romans 1 never mentions homosexuality.
You also overlooked its
larger theme, stating that you don't "acknowledge the Christian
god" in reply to an argument that rightly or wrongly says
you're without excuse, since he's knowable through his Creation.
Since I don't accept that the universe *IS* a "creation", and since,
if your god DOES exist, he created me in such manner that I can't
accept claims of his existence without his actual objective physical
presence, I don't need an excuse - I didn't create me.
But wait, that's not all! You idiotically pretended I had
claimed "everything not mentioned in the NT is allowed" in
response to my point that Matthew 19:16-22 and parallels affirm
part of the decalogue -- the bans on stealing, on bearing
false witness, etc. -- while omitting all the entries regarding
Creator-worship.
You wrongly denied Jesus places the 4th Commandment on its
head. "The sabbath was made for man and not man for the
sabbath" inverts the Creator's law in the ways that I explained.
You can make any excuse you want for any part of the Bible - it was
deliberately written to allow just that - same as any religious work.
That still doesn't show anyplace that specifically condemns
homosexuality, which is NOT having sex with someone or lusting after
someone. And which Romans 1 doesn't address at all, unless you read
homosexuality into it.
And when I noted that Jesus and his disciples break the
sabbath by performing healings and picking corn, you mistakenly
contended he was practicing emergency medicine. In the
Gospels he's healing chronic ailments: something he could have
done any day of the week.
You're telling me why God is doing what he's doing? Does your ego fit
through the firmament?
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want
you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good...Our
goal is a Christian nation. We have a Biblical duty, we are called by
God, to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want
pluralism."
-Randall Terry, Founder of Operation Rescue, The News-Sentinel, Fort
Wayne, Indiana, 8-16-93
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| User: "Kater Moggin" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
24 Oct 2006 12:14:02 AM |
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Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
You mean the part about the Law being in effect as long as heaven and
earth still exist?
No, I mean the parts about the law being abolished, erased
and so on, which you missed when you suggested that a
Christian mother is required to kill her disrespectful children.
And, as I pointed out to you, Romans 1 never mentions homosexuality.
As I answered, you skipped over the verses where Rom. 1 is
attacking homosexuality. I quoted Romans 1:24-28 and you
proved me right by erasing the passage from your not-a-response.
Since I don't accept that the universe *IS* a "creation", and since,
if your god DOES exist, he created me in such manner that I can't
accept claims of his existence without his actual objective physical
presence, I don't need an excuse - I didn't create me.
Once you realize we're not discussing my god, you can read
Rom. 1 and see how dense you're being. Well, I may be
overestimating your reading skills, not to mention your honesty.
You can make any excuse you want for any part of the Bible - it was
I'm not making any excuses for any part of the Bible. I'm
pointing out you're wrong to deny Jesus turns the 4th
Commandment topsy-turvy when he says that "The sabbath was made
for man and not man for the sabbath," since that teaching
inverts the Creator's law in the ways I described; and contrary
to your claim, the healings Jesus performs on the sabbath
aren't emergency medicine: he's curing chronic ailments, which
he could have done any other time, just as the disciples
could have picked corn on any of the days Yahweh allots for the
purpose.
deliberately written to allow just that - same as any religious work.
That still doesn't show anyplace that specifically condemns
homosexuality, which is NOT having sex with someone or lusting after
someone. And which Romans 1 doesn't address at all, unless you read
homosexuality into it.
You've ruined your own story. According to you Christians
don't realize erasing the law "would eliminate the ban on
homosexuality." That's what you said before, anyway -- now you
deny homosexuality is condemned anywhere in the Bible, so
there couldn't be a ban to eliminate. You seem deeply confused.
You're telling me why God is doing what he's doing?
Here I'm explaining why your assertion keeping the sabbath
holy "doesn't mean allowing someone to bleed to death" is a
complete irrelevancy. Again, Jesus is healing chronic ailments
according to the Gospels, something he could've done a day
earlier or a day later, just as his disciples could have picked
corn on one of the permitted days.
Does your ego fit through the firmament?
Yes, my ego fits through the sky, and your brain fits into
a peanut shell. Thanks for asking.
-- Moggin
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
24 Oct 2006 09:29:53 AM |
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On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 05:14:02 GMT, Kater Moggin <kimmerian@fastmail.fm>
wrote:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
You mean the part about the Law being in effect as long as heaven and
earth still exist?
No, I mean the parts about the law being abolished
You pick the part you like, I'll pick the part I like.
And, as I pointed out to you, Romans 1 never mentions homosexuality.
As I answered, you skipped over the verses where Rom. 1 is
attacking homosexuality.
It's attacking homosexual acts, not homosexuality.
Since I don't accept that the universe *IS* a "creation", and since,
if your god DOES exist, he created me in such manner that I can't
accept claims of his existence without his actual objective physical
presence, I don't need an excuse - I didn't create me.
Once you realize we're not discussing my god, you can read
Rom. 1 and see how dense you're being.
You're assuming that I accept that the Bible is any more important
that Goldilocks. I don't.
You can make any excuse you want for any part of the Bible - it was
I'm not making any excuses for any part of the Bible. I'm
pointing out you're wrong to deny Jesus turns the 4th
Commandment topsy-turvy when he says that "The sabbath was made
for man and not man for the sabbath," since that teaching
inverts the Creator's law in the ways I described; and contrary
to your claim, the healings Jesus performs on the sabbath
aren't emergency medicine: he's curing chronic ailments, which
he could have done any other time
Since Jesus is god, you're telling us why God is doing what he's
doing. That, according to the Bible, is the height of hubris.
deliberately written to allow just that - same as any religious work.
That still doesn't show anyplace that specifically condemns
homosexuality, which is NOT having sex with someone or lusting after
someone. And which Romans 1 doesn't address at all, unless you read
homosexuality into it.
You've ruined your own story. According to you Christians
don't realize erasing the law "would eliminate the ban on
homosexuality." That's what you said before, anyway -- now you
deny homosexuality is condemned anywhere in the Bible, so
there couldn't be a ban to eliminate. You seem deeply confused.
*I'm* confused? The bible doesn't condemn being homosexual. Feel
free to point out where it does.
You're telling me why God is doing what he's doing?
Here I'm explaining why your assertion keeping the sabbath
holy "doesn't mean allowing someone to bleed to death" is a
complete irrelevancy.
It is if God wills it to be - according to Christianity. If he
decides that healing a chronic illness, or picking corn, is reason to
do something on Sabbath, that's his decision. He made the law, so he
can violate it without asking your permission or explain why he's
doing it. For you to assume that you know the reasons behind his
actions is nonsense.
Again, Jesus is healing chronic ailments
according to the Gospels, something he could've done a day
earlier or a day later, just as his disciples could have picked
corn on one of the permitted days.
He could have picked a different planet to create too. Being
omniscient he could have done anything. Your assuming that you know
why he did what he did, or whether he considers curing a chronic
illness more important than keeping Sabbath, is egotism in the
extreme. And pride, which is a sin.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"Christianity has already had the chance to govern
the world according to its own ethical standards.
It was called the "Dark Ages".
- Bill, The Avender
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| User: "Kater Moggin" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
24 Oct 2006 05:42:00 PM |
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Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
You pick the part you like, I'll pick the part I like.
I'll point out the part you missed. You claimed Christian
moms are required to kill their disrespectful kids as the
Bible commands, but you didn't realize the Christian scriptures
often -- though not always -- contend the law has been
abolished, ended, or the like, making that commandment null and
void.
[Rom. 1]
It's attacking homosexual acts, not homosexuality.
You're weaseling again, and it isn't helping you any. Rom.
1 attacks the same act that Leviticus does, namely men
screwing men rather than women, so your claim that condemnation
would vanish with the law is false.
You're assuming that I accept that the Bible is any more important
that Goldilocks.
No, I'm noting your attempted reply to Rom. 1 demonstrated
ignorance about what it says. You tried to wave it away by
saying you didn't know or accept the god it discusses. But you
totally missed the main point of the passage (not refuted --
missed), which argues, rightly or wrongly, that unbelievers are
w/out excuse because the truth of God is revealed in his
Creation. You don't gotta agree with Rom. 1 (I have objections
of my own), but you haven't been able to grasp what the
chapter is claiming. The way you've been going, you'd probably
get Goldilocks wrong too.
Since Jesus is god, you're telling us why God is doing what he's
doing.
Unsupported claim plus a non sequitur: you haven't proved
Jesus is god (in fact you haven't even said which god you
think he is), and no, it doesn't follow that I'm telling anyone
what God's motives are, since in this instance I'm simply
noting some of your mistakes about the scriptures. You wrongly
denied "The sabbath was made for man and not man for the
sabbath" overturns the 4th Commandment (Jesus' teaching inverts
the law in the ways I already described), and you falsely
insisted Jesus' sabbath-day healings are all emergency medicine.
According to the Gospels he's remedying various chronic
ailments: something he could have done any other time, just as
his disciples could've picked corn on any other day of the
week rather than violating the Creator's stated law by choosing
the sabbath.
*I'm* confused?
Yeah, you're deeply confused. First you talked about "the
ban on homosexuality" in the Mosaic law, then you turned
around and tried to deny homosexuality is condemned anywhere in
the Bible.
It is if God wills it to be - according to Christianity. If he
decides that healing a chronic illness, or picking corn, is reason to
do something on Sabbath, that's his decision. He made the law, so he
can violate it without asking your permission or explain why he's
doing it. For you to assume that you know the reasons behind his
actions is nonsense.
The nonsense is yours, as usual. You falsely denied Jesus'
saying "The sabbath was made for man and not man for the
sabbath" overturns the 4th Commandment -- it inverts the law in
the ways I've already described -- and you ignorantly
insisted Jesus' sabbath-day healings are all emergency medicine.
According to the Gospels he's remedying various chronic
ailments: something he could have done any other time, just as
his disciples could've picked corn on any other day of the
week rather than violating the Creator's stated law by choosing
the sabbath.
He could have picked a different planet to create too. Being
omniscient he could have done anything.
Um, no. Now you're mixing up omniscience with omnipotence.
What a dunce you are. It gets worse for you, too. In the
Gospels Jesus _isn't_ omniscient, since he says he doesn't know
the hour and day the world will end, info available only to
the heavenly Father, he says. See Matthew 24:36 and Mark 13:32.
Your assuming that you know
why he did what he did, or whether he considers curing a chronic
illness more important than keeping Sabbath, is egotism in the
extreme. And pride, which is a sin.
You've screwed up your own story again. You tried to make
Jesus' sabbath-day healings conform to the Creator's law by
claiming he was saving lives. But the Gospels say very
differently: there he heals chronic ailments, some dating back
years. A job that he could've done a day earlier or a day
later, just as his disciples could've picked corn on any of the
six days that the Creator permits instead of choosing the
sabbath: the one day of the week the Creator prohibits working.
-- Moggin
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
24 Oct 2006 07:30:14 PM |
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On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 22:42:00 GMT, Kater Moggin <kimmerian@fastmail.fm>
wrote:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
It's attacking homosexual acts, not homosexuality.
You're weaseling again, and it isn't helping you any. Rom.
1 attacks the same act that Leviticus does, namely men
screwing men rather than women
IS NOT HOMOSEXUALITY! When you understand the difference between "men
screwing men rather than women" and homosexuality, get back to me.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"religion did for *****, what Stonehenge did for rocks"
- The World Famous Tink
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
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| User: "Kater Moggin" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
24 Oct 2006 10:10:27 PM |
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Kater Moggin <kimmerian@fastmail.fm>:
Rom. 1 attacks the same act that Leviticus does, namely men
screwing men rather than women ...
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
IS NOT HOMOSEXUALITY!
It is according to you. You claimed abolishing the Mosaic
code "would eliminate the ban on homosexuality." But you
didn't realize the ban is stated independently in the Christian
scriptures.
When you understand the difference between "men
screwing men rather than women" and homosexuality, get back to me.
You're merely arguing with yourself, since you referred to
"the ban on homosexuality" in the OT.
-- Moggin
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
25 Oct 2006 07:39:50 AM |
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On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 03:10:27 GMT, Kater Moggin <kimmerian@fastmail.fm>
wrote:
Kater Moggin <kimmerian@fastmail.fm>:
Rom. 1 attacks the same act that Leviticus does, namely men
screwing men rather than women ...
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
IS NOT HOMOSEXUALITY!
It is according to you.
It's not, according to me.
You claimed abolishing the Mosaic
code "would eliminate the ban on homosexuality."
According to the beliefs of Christians.
Since I'm not a Christian I don't accept what the Bible says -
Christians do. That's two separate thoughts. Would you rather we
split them into two separate threads so that you can keep them
separate in your mind?
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid
consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and
ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who
works on the basis of reward and punishment. "
- Letter to M. Berkowitz, October 25, 1950; Einstein Archive 59-215
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| User: "Kater Moggin" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
25 Oct 2006 10:19:06 AM |
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Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
According to the beliefs of Christians.
According to you, Christian beliefs require Christian moms
to kill their disprespectful children because the Bible
commands them to -- but it ain't necessarily so. The Christian
scriptures often, though not always, say the Mosaic law is
ended, abolished, or erased. In reply, you say that Christians
"don't seen to realize that doing so would eliminate the ban on
homosexuality," but that's wrong, too, since there are
objections in the NT (Rom. 1:26-28, for instance) as well as in
Leviticus.
-- Moggin
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| User: "Yang, AthD h.c, Kicking AWOLs Cocaine Snorting Ass" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
25 Oct 2006 10:22:33 AM |
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On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 15:19:06 GMT, Kater Moggin <kimmerian@fastmail.fm>
wrote:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
According to the beliefs of Christians.
According to you, Christian beliefs require Christian moms
to kill their disprespectful children because the Bible
commands them to -- but it ain't necessarily so. The Christian
scriptures often, though not always, say the Mosaic law is
ended, abolished, or erased. In reply, you say that Christians
"don't seen to realize that doing so would eliminate the ban on
homosexuality," but that's wrong, too, since there are
objections in the NT (Rom. 1:26-28, for instance) as well as in
Leviticus.
And the same New Testament also supports slavert (Col 3:22). When are
you guys going to repeal the 14th Amendment?
-----
Yang
a.a. #28
AthD (h.c.) conferred by the regents of the LCL
a.a. pastor #-273.15, the most frigid church of Celcius nee Kelvin
EAC Econometric Forecast and Sorcery Division
The Bush 'balanced' budget: -2 trillion and worsening
The Bush 'economic' policy: 12.5 million FEWER jobs than Clinton and counting
The Bush Iraq lie: -2803 GIs, one friend's co-worker's son and mounting
Having Bush ***** up my country: Worthless
newsgroups Yang promises not to revenge post
in response to Sound-of-Trumpet's *****:
rec.art.scifi.written
sci.archaeology
soc.history.what-if
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
25 Oct 2006 11:10:55 AM |
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On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 08:22:33 -0700, "Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's
Cocaine Snorting *****" <eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> wrote:
And the same New Testament also supports slavert (Col 3:22). When are
you guys going to repeal the 14th Amendment?
Didn't you know that the Bible NEVER changes? (Except when it does.)
How can anyone live with that much cognitive dissonance?
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"Never in human history have such genocide and cruelty been
witnessed. Such a genocide was never seen in the time of the pharaohs nor
of Hitler nor of Mussolini."
- Mehmet Elkatmi, head of Turkish parliament's human rights commission
on Bush's genocide in the Iraq war. 11-28-2004
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| User: "Kater Moggin" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
25 Oct 2006 11:38:27 AM |
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Yang, AthD (h.c) <eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com>:
And the same New Testament also supports slavert (Col 3:22).
Yep. Also Ephesians 6:5. But the same New Testament also
rejects slavery (1 Corinthians 7:23, 1 Timothy 1:10) and
teaches against worldly authorities including teachers, fathers
and princes.
When are you guys going to repeal the 14th Amendment?
When are you guys gonna learn to read? (Just a rhetorical
question.)
-- Moggin
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
25 Oct 2006 03:18:23 PM |
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On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 16:38:27 GMT, Kater Moggin <kimmerian@fastmail.fm>
wrote:
Yang, AthD (h.c) <eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com>:
And the same New Testament also supports slavert (Col 3:22).
Yep. Also Ephesians 6:5. But the same New Testament also
rejects slavery (1 Corinthians 7:23,
Not quite. Not one word about "slavery, as an institution, is wrong",
or words to that effect, just "even though you're bought and paid for,
you're not really a slave". IOW, "I'm redefining the word 'slave' so
that you shouldn't feel bad about being owned by someone else." About
what you do if you're a slave OWNER, not an abolitionist.
1 Timothy 1:10)
Just who the law was made for, nothing about not owning slaves.
and teaches against worldly authorities including teachers, fathers
and princes.
But not one word about owning people, other than that it's allowable.
When are you guys gonna learn to read?
We can read the verses you post - but they have nothing to do with
what you're trying to use them to prove. Your god condones slavery -
he NEVER ONCE condemns it.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"I've heard the call. I believe God wants me to run for president."
- George W. Bush, quoted in George Magazine, September, 2000
"God gave the savior to the German people. We have faith,
deep and unshakeable faith, that he was sent to us by
God to save Germany."
- Hermann Goering, speaking of Hitler
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| User: "Kater Moggin" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
26 Oct 2006 07:08:46 PM |
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Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
[NT]
But not one word about owning people, other than that it's allowable.
False. 1 Corinthians 7:23 says, "Do not become the slaves
of human masters" and 1 Timothy 1:10 lumps slave-traders in
with "the godless and sinful, the unholy and profane" alongside
murderers, liars, etc.
The law is laid down not for the innocent but for
the lawless and disobedient, for the godless and
sinful, for the unholy and profane, for those who
kill their father or mother, for murderers,
fornicators, sodomites, slave-traders, liars,
perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to the
sound teaching that conforms to the glorious gospel
of the blessed God.
There slave-trading is stated to be "contrary to the sound
teaching" of the gospel.
-- Moggin
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
27 Oct 2006 01:02:14 AM |
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On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 00:08:46 GMT, Kater Moggin <kimmerian@fastmail.fm>
wrote:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
[NT]
But not one word about owning people, other than that it's allowable.
False. 1 Corinthians 7:23 says, "Do not become the slaves
of human masters"
Nothing about not owning people. Telling slaves not to be owned has
nothing to do with telling people not to own slaves. Not that this
even goes THAT far.
and 1 Timothy 1:10 lumps slave-traders
But no mention of slave OWNERS.
There slave-trading is stated to be "contrary to the sound
teaching" of the gospel.
But OWNING slaves is never mentioned, except to be condoned.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so
long as I'm the dictator."
- G W Bush (Washington, D.C., Dec. 19, 2000)
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| User: "Kater Moggin" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
27 Oct 2006 08:33:53 PM |
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Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
But no mention of slave OWNERS.
You're weaseling again, Al. You wrongly insisted "not one
word about owning people, other than that it's allowable" --
obviously false, since 1 Cor. 7:23 declares, "Do not become the
slaves of human masters" and 1 Timothy 1:10 classes
slave-trading with lying, murdering, etc., all "contrary to the
sound teaching" of the gospel.
You can't even keep your weaseling straight. In a near-by
post you're trying to wriggle out of other mistakes by
contending that the Bible means whatever one likes and that one
can find anything in the NT. If so, then you've pulled the
rug out from under your claim it doesn't contain any objections
to slavery.
-- Moggin
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
28 Oct 2006 10:40:39 AM |
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On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 01:33:53 GMT, Kater Moggin <kimmerian@fastmail.fm>
wrote:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
But no mention of slave OWNERS.
You're weaseling again, Al. You wrongly insisted "not one
word about owning people
Being owned isn't owning.
The Bible NEVER condemns slavery, regardless of all the "don't be a
slave" verses it has.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"So much blood has been shed by the Church because of an omission from the Gospel: "Ye
shall be indifferent as to what your neighbor's religion is." Not merely tolerant of it,
but indifferent to it. Divinity is claimed for many religions; but no religion is great
enough or divine enough to add that new law to its code."
- Mark Twain, a Biography
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| User: "Kater Moggin" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
29 Oct 2006 01:15:21 AM |
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Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
The Bible NEVER condemns slavery
Not true. 1 Cor. 7:23 declares, "Do not become the slaves
of human masters" and 1 Timothy 1:10 classes slave-trading
with lying, murdering, etc., all of them "contrary to the sound
teaching" of the gospel. Not to mention all of the more
general objections to worldly authority. "Neither be ye called
masters," for example.
Besides, you said it's possible to find anything in the NT.
So when you claim it never condemns slavery, never bans
homosexuality, etc., you're contradicting your stated principle.
-- Moggin
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
29 Oct 2006 03:25:25 AM |
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On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 06:15:21 GMT, Kater Moggin <kimmerian@fastmail.fm>
wrote:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
The Bible NEVER condemns slavery
Not true. 1 Cor. 7:23 declares, "Do not become the slaves
of human masters"
That's telling people not to BECOME slaves, not to HAVE slaves. Slaves
can't prevent slavery, only SLAVE OWNERS can.
and 1 Timothy 1:10 classes slave-trading
But not SLAVE OWNING.
Point out one part of the Bible that condemns OWNING slaves.
Besides, you said it's possible to find anything in the NT.
So when you claim it never condemns slavery, never bans
homosexuality, etc., you're contradicting your stated principle.
But you're finding places that you claim do both, aren't you?
Disproving your own claim.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
There are three kinds of men:
The ones that learn by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence.
- (Will Rogers)
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| User: "Kater Moggin" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
29 Oct 2006 07:06:58 PM |
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Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
But not SLAVE OWNING.
You're weaseling again, Al. You wrongly claimed the Bible
has nothing to say against slavery. There are far more
passages where it condones slavery than not, but I've given two
or three examples of what you denied, including general
propositions against worldly authority -- "Neither be ye called
masters" -- and remarks on slavery in specific: the
instruction "Do not become the slaves of human masters" as well
as the assertion slave-trading is "contrary to the sound
teaching" of the gospel, in the same class with murder and lies.
You also argued that it's possible to find anything in the
NT -- so you're violating your own stated principle every
single time you claim it never condemns slavery, never condemns
homosexuality, etc.
But you're finding places that you claim do both, aren't you?
Disproving your own claim.
False. The scriptures' inconsistency doesn't disprove any
claim of mine. On the contrary, I began by noting the NT
often though not always declares the end of the law: something
you didn't realize when you mistakenly said Christian
morals require Christian mothers to kill disrespectful children.
-- Moggin
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
30 Oct 2006 09:37:27 AM |
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On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 01:06:58 GMT, Kater Moggin <kimmerian@fastmail.fm>
wrote:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
But not SLAVE OWNING.
You're weaseling again, Al. You wrongly claimed the Bible
has nothing to say against slavery.
And it hasn't. Claiming that telling people not to be slaves (when
the actual meaning of the verse is something totally different, yet)
is the desperate grasping for straws by a drowned man.
You also argued that it's possible to find anything in the
NT
And you did. You interpreted a verse to mean something totally
different than it says.
But you're finding places that you claim do both, aren't you?
Disproving your own claim.
I began by noting the NT
often though not always declares the end of the law:
It also declares that the law is still in effect. IOW, it's written
so that you can interpret what it says to mean anything you like. I
was taking the claims of a specific group, not the Bible as anyone can
interpret it but, as with the Bible, you interpreted what I said to
mean what you wanted it to mean. I guess I can't call that dishonest
because Christians are taught, from the time you're old enough to
understand your parent's language, that this is honesty.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to
the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his
children smart.
- H. L. Mencken
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