Religions > Atheism > Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Yang, AthD h.c, Kicking AWOLs Cocaine Snorting Ass" |
| Date: |
20 Oct 2006 08:22:51 PM |
| Object: |
Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
Yep, that vaunted Christian moral superiority
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=40880
YONGSAN GARRISON, South Korea — A soldier was sentenced Wednesday to
two years in prison after pleading guilty to charges he raped and
committed adultery with a married female airman.
During his court-martial in the Yongsan Garrison courtroom on
Wednesday, Pfc. Wesshonte L. Taylor, 21, of the 8th Army’s G6
communications and electronics section, said he forced himself upon
the female airman despite her objections.
....
Taylor’s mother, a MINISTER and retired soldier, said during testimony
via telephone that she would morally support her son and continue to
pray for both him and the woman.
-----
Yang
a.a. #28
AthD (h.c.) conferred by the regents of the LCL
a.a. pastor #-273.15, the most frigid church of Celcius nee Kelvin
EAC Econometric Forecast and Sorcery Division
The Bush 'balanced' budget: -2 trillion and worsening
The Bush 'economic' policy: 12.5 million FEWER jobs than Clinton and counting
The Bush Iraq lie: -2786 GIs, one friend's co-worker's son and mounting
Having Bush ***** up my country: Worthless
newsgroups Yang promises not to revenge post
in response to Sound-of-Trumpet's *****:
rec.art.scifi.written
sci.archaeology
soc.history.what-if
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
20 Oct 2006 10:54:58 PM |
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On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 18:22:51 -0700, "Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's
Cocaine Snorting *****" <eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> wrote:
Taylor’s mother, a MINISTER and retired soldier, said during testimony
via telephone that she would morally support her son and continue to
pray for both him and the woman.
Doesn't the Bible say that you should kill a child who doesn't respect
his parents? Didn't this kid show disrespect for his mother? So much
for HER "Christian morals".
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"Every sensible man, every honest man, must hold the christian sect in horror. 'But what
shall we substitute in its place?' you say. What? A ferocious animal has sucked the
blood of my relatives. I tell you to rid yourselves of this beast and you ask me what
you shall put in its place?" - Voltaire
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| User: "Broken Bottles Under Childrens Feet" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
21 Oct 2006 08:39:13 AM |
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"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
Doesn't the Bible say that you should kill
No, you stupid *****.
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| User: "Kater Moggin" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
21 Oct 2006 07:27:28 AM |
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Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
Doesn't the Bible say that you should kill a child who doesn't respect
his parents? Didn't this kid show disrespect for his mother? So much
for HER "Christian morals".
Depends which kind of Christianity she subscribes to. You
don't seem to realize that the Christian scriptures often --
though not always -- contend the law has been erased, abolished
or the like.
-- Moggin
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
21 Oct 2006 02:41:48 PM |
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On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 12:27:28 GMT, Kater Moggin <kimmerian@fastmail.fm>
wrote:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
Doesn't the Bible say that you should kill a child who doesn't respect
his parents? Didn't this kid show disrespect for his mother? So much
for HER "Christian morals".
Depends which kind of Christianity she subscribes to. You
don't seem to realize that the Christian scriptures often --
though not always -- contend the law has been erased, abolished
or the like.
They don't seen to realize that doing so would eliminate the ban on
homosexuality, the Ten Commandments (which ten, though?), etc.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can
solve them."
-Isaac Asimov
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| User: "Kater Moggin" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
22 Oct 2006 04:31:17 PM |
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Kater Moggin <kimmerian@fastmail.fm>:
... The Christian scriptures often --
though not always -- contend the law has been erased, abolished
or the like.
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
They don't seen to realize that doing so would eliminate the ban on
homosexuality, the Ten Commandments (which ten, though?), etc.
Not so. Homosexuality is attacked in the NT independently
of Leviticus (Romans 1:18-32, frex), and a chunk of the
decalogue is affirmed in Matthew 19:16-22 and parallels, namely
the prohibitions on lying, stealing, etc., though the
commandments on Creator-worship have gone conspicuously missing.
-- Moggin
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
22 Oct 2006 08:25:14 PM |
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On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 21:31:17 GMT, Kater Moggin <kimmerian@fastmail.fm>
wrote:
Not so. Homosexuality is attacked in the NT independently
of Leviticus (Romans 1:18-32, frex),
That doesn't address homosexuality.
and a chunk of the
decalogue is affirmed in Matthew 19:16-22 and parallels, namely
the prohibitions on lying, stealing, etc., though the
commandments on Creator-worship have gone conspicuously missing.
The one on honoring Sabbath has been perverted.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"The study of geology is ok-But not when it contradicts what is laid
out in the Bible that the earth is more than 10,000 years old."
- Doug Lee, Creationist
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| User: "Kater Moggin" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
22 Oct 2006 09:04:07 PM |
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Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
[Romans 1:18-32]
That doesn't address homosexuality.
On the contrary, it does address homosexuality, and not in
a nice way.
Kater Moggin <kimmerian@fastmail.fm>:
A chunk of the
decalogue is affirmed in Matthew 19:16-22 and parallels, namely
the prohibitions on lying, stealing, etc., though the
commandments on Creator-worship have gone conspicuously missing.
AK:
The one on honoring Sabbath has been perverted.
The commandment on keeping the sabbath is missing from the
requirements for eternal life in Matthew 19:16-22 and
parallels. In fact none of the entries in the Ten Commandments
on Creator-worship are there.
Elsewhere the 4th Commandment is turned upside-down (Jesus
says it was made for man, not vice-versa) and repeatedly
broken: Jesus performs healings, his disciples pick corn, both
on the sabbath-day.
In the OT the sabbath is said to memorialize Yahweh's work
of Creation or his covenant with Israel (depends where you
read -- chapter and verse on request), suggesting what might be
at stake.
-- Moggin
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
23 Oct 2006 09:45:35 AM |
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On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 02:04:07 GMT, Kater Moggin <kimmerian@fastmail.fm>
wrote:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
[Romans 1:18-32]
That doesn't address homosexuality.
On the contrary, it does address homosexuality, and not in
a nice way.
Not one word about homosexuality unless you read homosexuality into
it. I could read any characteristic I want into that and claim that
characteristic is condemned.
Romans 1:29-31, "Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication,
wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate,
deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful,
proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection,
implacable, unmerciful:"
So just about anything - being a Republican, flaming someone on
Usenet, people who print Bibles (which I consider evil), you name it -
are condemned by God.
Romans 1:32, "Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit
such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have
pleasure in them that do them."
Unless you interpret "knowing" as "accepting", in which case Romans
1:18-32 applies only to those who choose to live in accordance with
it. Since I don't acknowledge the Christian god, I can't "know" "his"
judgment.
The one on honoring Sabbath has been perverted.
The commandment on keeping the sabbath is missing from the
requirements for eternal life in Matthew 19:16-22 and
parallels.
So is the permission to use computers. If everything not mentioned in
the NT is allowed, Christianity is due for a HUGE change.
In fact none of the entries in the Ten Commandments
on Creator-worship are there.
In fact, almost ALL that Christianity (as opposed to the Bible)
condemns isn't in the Bible. Abortion. Homosexuality. Not in there
unless you read it into what's there. And Jesus warns NOT to do that.
Elsewhere the 4th Commandment is turned upside-down (Jesus
says it was made for man, not vice-versa) and repeatedly
broken: Jesus performs healings, his disciples pick corn, both
on the sabbath-day.
Matthew 12:10-12, "And, behold, there was a man which had his hand
withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the
sabbath days? that they might accuse him. And he said unto them, What
man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it
fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and
lift it out? How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it
is lawful to do well on the sabbath days."
So it's not "turned upside down"; keeping it holy doesn't mean
allowing someone to bleed to death because tearing a bandage is
"work".
In the OT the sabbath is said to memorialize Yahweh's work
of Creation or his covenant with Israel (depends where you
read -- chapter and verse on request), suggesting what might be
at stake.
In the OT, there's no "the" Sabbath - since there's no article in
ancient Hebrew. It's simply Sabbath - the name of a particular day.
It can no more be Sunday than Friday can be Tuesday.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"I see only with deep regret that God punishes so many of His children for their
numerous stupidities, for which only He Himself can be held responsible; in my opinion,
only His nonexistence could excuse Him."
-A. Einstein (Letter to Edgar Meyer, Jan. 2, 1915)
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| User: "Kater Moggin" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
23 Oct 2006 11:02:58 AM |
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Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
[Romans 1:18-32]
Not one word about homosexuality unless you read homosexuality into
it. I could read any characteristic I want into that and claim that
characteristic is condemned.
Seems like the sort of thing you might do, I agree, but in
this case you've fallen into the opposite mistake: you
skipped over the verses attacking homosexuality, then contended
they aren't there.
Romans 1:29-31
See, there you go. You skipped past the verses vehemently
attacking homosexuality, Rom. 1:24-28.
God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women
exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, and
in the same way also the men, giving up natural
intercourse with women, were consumed with passion
for one another. Men committed shameless acts with
men and received in their own persons the due
penalty for their error.
Rom. 1:24-28 NRSV
God gave them up unto vile affections: for even
their women did change the natural use into that
which is against nature: And likewise also the
men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in
their lust one toward another; men with men
working that which is unseemly, and receiving in
themselves that recompence of their error which was
meet.
Rom. 1:24-28 KJV
You can ignore anything you want and claim it isn't in the
Bible, but there's what you succeeded in missing in this
instance: Rom. 1:24-28, attacking homosexuality. Note lesbian
invisibility isn't the case.
Since I don't acknowledge the Christian god, I can't "know" "his"
judgment.
Far be it from me to credit you with knowing more than you
do, but you've completely missed the point that Rom. 1 is
arguing (not refuted -- missed), namely that "what can be known
about God is plain" because "ever since the creation of the
world his eternal power and divine nature invisible though they
are have been understood and seen through the things he has
made" leaving the ungodly "without excuse; for though they knew
God, they did not honour him as God or give thanks." Feel
free to disagree with Romans (I certainly do), but first figure
out what it's saying.
If everything not mentioned in
the NT is allowed, Christianity is due for a HUGE change.
Now you're just being stupid. As I already noted, Matthew
19:16-22 and parallels clearly and explicitly affirm a big
chunk of the Ten Commandments: the ban on stealing, the ban on
giving false witness, etc. Since those entries are
approvingly cited, the items on Creator-worship are conspicuous
by their absence.
So it's not "turned upside down"
The 4th Commandent is set on its head in the teaching I've
already mentioned, namely Mark 2:27, where Jesus announces
"The sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath." In
the OT Yahweh makes the first sabbath for himself when he
rests from the act of Creation, then he requires the Israelites
to observe the sabbath -- the penalty for disobedience is
death by stoning -- in honor of his Creation or the covenant he
imposed, depending where you read. Saying that the day was
made for man is the very opposite, an overturning of the
Creator's logic, a reversal of the significance the sabbath has
in the law.
Same sorta thing goes for the sabbath-breakings that Jesus
and his disciples perform in the Gospels. He could have
chosen any other day of the week to do healings. (No emergency
medicine in these cases -- he remedies chronic ailments.)
Similarly, the disciples could've picked corn on any of the six
days the Creator allots. Violating the sabbath becomes a
sharply pointed commentary on Yahweh's command, and thus on the
Creation, the Covenant, or both.
The Gospel of John includes another sabbath-breaking scene
tied even more tightly to the Tanakh: Jesus' instruction
"Arise, take up thy bed, and walk" to a man that he's healed on
sabbath-day -- see John 5:8 -- directly conflicts with
Jeremiah 17:21-23, which commands "Take heed to yourselves, and
bear no burden on the sabbath day." What's more, the same
passage in Jeremiah calls those who disobey "stiff-necked." So
Jesus, is among other things, describing his own critical
attitude to the Creator's laws, linking himself with Israelites
who disobeyed the LORD.
; keeping it holy doesn't mean allowing someone to bleed to
death because tearing a bandage is "work".
Again, Jesus _isn't_ practicing emergency medicine when he
heals on the sabbath: he's curing chronic ailments, some
dating back years. Like the disciples who break the sabbath by
picking corn, he could've done the same thing either a day
earlier or a day later in conformity with the law. But instead
he chooses the day Yahweh bans.
-- Moggin
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
23 Oct 2006 01:45:12 PM |
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On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 16:02:58 GMT, Kater Moggin <kimmerian@fastmail.fm>
wrote:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
[Romans 1:18-32]
Not one word about homosexuality unless you read homosexuality into
it. I could read any characteristic I want into that and claim that
characteristic is condemned.
Seems like the sort of thing you might do, I agree, but in
this case you've fallen into the opposite mistake: you
skipped over the verses attacking homosexuality, then contended
they aren't there.
You evidently don't know the difference between having sex with
someone of the same gender and homosexuality.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"I can't activate two neurons simultaneously, and I vote"
- The theistic majority
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| User: "Broken Bottles Under Childrens Feet" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
23 Oct 2006 02:00:27 PM |
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"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
You evidently don't know the difference between having sex with
someone of the same gender and homosexuality.
No doubt the Bible explains it in clear, unambiguous Hebrew.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
23 Oct 2006 07:11:40 PM |
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On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 20:00:27 +0100, "Broken Bottles Under Childrens
Feet" <qrnq_znatyrq_cvtrba@zfa.pbz> wrote:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
You evidently don't know the difference between having sex with
someone of the same gender and homosexuality.
No doubt the Bible explains it in clear, unambiguous Hebrew.
Um ... no ... it doesn't address it at all. It just condemns
participating in homosexual ACTS. Nothing about being homosexual at
all.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"The doctrine that the earth is neither the center of the universe nor immovable, but
moves even with a daily rotation, is absurd, and both philosophically and theologically
false, and at the least an error of faith."
- Catholic Church's decision against Galileo Galilei
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| User: "Kater Moggin" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
24 Oct 2006 12:17:24 AM |
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Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
Um ... no ... it doesn't address it at all. It just condemns
participating in homosexual ACTS.
A condemnation in Romans as well as Leviticus, contrary to
your claim that abolishing the law would necessarily
eliminate the ban on homosexuality from a Christian perspective.
-- Moggin
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
24 Oct 2006 09:30:24 AM |
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On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 05:17:24 GMT, Kater Moggin <kimmerian@fastmail.fm>
wrote:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
Um ... no ... it doesn't address it at all. It just condemns
participating in homosexual ACTS.
A condemnation in Romans as well as Leviticus
But not on homosexuality, which was your claim.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"We should do unto others as we would want them to do unto us. If I were an unborn
fetus I would want others to use force to protect me, therefore using force against
abortionists is *justifiable homocide*."
- "Pro-Life" doctor killer and corpse Paul Hill
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| User: "Kater Moggin" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
24 Oct 2006 05:23:50 PM |
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Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
But not on homosexuality
False by your own words. According to you, Christians are
unaware that ending the law "would eliminate the ban on
homosexuality" (of course you were unaware the law is ever said
to be cancelled in the NT), so despite your continual
weaseling, you're on record granting homosexuality is banned in
the Mosaic code, and you've obviously missed passages like
Rom. 1:26-28 disproving your claim the ban would necessarily be
erased with the commandments.
If you were a bit brighter, you could argue that Romans is
backsliding by returning to the tenets of the Creator's
already-abolished law or neglecting to apply the lessons of the
gospel. But editing-out the verses that dispute you from
your reply and ignoring what they say makes a comment about you
rather than on the scriptures.
-- Moggin
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
24 Oct 2006 07:28:50 PM |
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On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 22:23:50 GMT, Kater Moggin <kimmerian@fastmail.fm>
wrote:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
But not on homosexuality
False by your own words.
Your arguing what the Bible DOES say - I'm arguing that a ban on men
having sex with men IS NOT a ban on homosexuality. But I guess you
just don't know the difference.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but
not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."
-A. Einstein (1929 -- Einstein Archive 33-272)
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| User: "Kater Moggin" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
24 Oct 2006 10:12:11 PM |
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Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
Your arguing what the Bible DOES say - I'm arguing that a ban on men
having sex with men IS NOT a ban on homosexuality.
You're erasing your own words where you already argued the
ban on men having sex with men _is_ a ban on homosexuality.
Abolishing the Mosaic code "would eliminate the ban on
homosexuality," you wrote. Like I said, you're deeply confused.
-- Moggin
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
25 Oct 2006 07:41:22 AM |
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On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 03:12:11 GMT, Kater Moggin <kimmerian@fastmail.fm>
wrote:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
Your arguing what the Bible DOES say - I'm arguing that a ban on men
having sex with men IS NOT a ban on homosexuality.
You're erasing your own words where you already argued the
ban on men having sex with men _is_ a ban on homosexuality.
No, I argued that CHRISTIANS claim that the ban on men having sex with
men is part of Levitical law, not that I accept Levitical law as
anything more than words in a book.
Try to keep the two concepts separate in your mind.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds
are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her
tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the
existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of
the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear."
- Thomas Jefferson (1743 - 1826)
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| User: "Kater Moggin" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
25 Oct 2006 10:16:21 AM |
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Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
No, I argued that CHRISTIANS claim that the ban on men having sex with
You argued that Christian morals require Christian mothers
to kill disrespectful children because the Bible says so --
but you didn't realize the Christian scriptures often claim the
law of Moses has been erased, ended, abolished, etc. In
response, you said Christians "don't seem to realize that doing
so would eliminate the ban on homosexuality" -- but that's
wrong, too, since there are objections within the NT as well as
in Leviticus.
-- Moggin
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
25 Oct 2006 11:09:40 AM |
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On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 15:16:21 GMT, Kater Moggin <kimmerian@fastmail.fm>
wrote:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
No, I argued that CHRISTIANS claim that the ban on men having sex with
You argued that Christian morals require Christian mothers
to kill disrespectful children because the Bible says so --
but you didn't realize the Christian scriptures often claim the
law of Moses has been erased, ended, abolished, etc.
It also claims that they aren't. You can read almost anything you
like into a good religious book - that's what makes it good. Strict
rules don't last.
In response, you said Christians "don't seem to realize that doing
so would eliminate the ban on homosexuality"
THEIR believed ban - I don't believe it was ever in effect or that it
banned anything - it's just words in a fairy tale.
but that's wrong, too, since there are objections within the NT as well as
in Leviticus.
According to SOME Christians. According to others, ANYTHING banned in
Leviticus is automatically no longer banned since the OT, and any
restrictions flowing from it, are no longer in effect..
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"They laughed at Newton, they laughed at Einstein, but they also laughed at
Bozo the Clown."
- Carl Sagan
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| User: "Kater Moggin" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
25 Oct 2006 11:45:21 AM |
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Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
According to SOME Christians.
Man, are you thick. You're now repeating the point I made
to you back in the beginning when you falsely claimed
Christian morals require a Christian mother to kill
disrespectful children. Depends which kind of Christianity she
subscribes to, I said. You didn't realize the Christian
scriptures often, tho not always, claim that the Mosaic law has
been erased.
You're also wrong to say abolishing the law eliminates any
basis for condemning homosexuality within the Christian
religion, since the objection in Leviticus is echoed separately
in parts of the NT, e.g. Rom. 1:24-28.
-- Moggin
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
25 Oct 2006 02:43:54 PM |
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On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 16:45:21 GMT, Kater Moggin <kimmerian@fastmail.fm>
wrote:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
According to SOME Christians.
Man, are you thick. You're now repeating the point I made
to you back in the beginning when you falsely claimed
Christian morals require a Christian mother to kill
disrespectful children. Depends which kind of Christianity she
subscribes to, I said.
Which is a bagpipe concerto.
You didn't realize the Christian
scriptures often, tho not always, claim that the Mosaic law has
been erased.
you don't realize that atheists don't care about your internecine
wars.
You're also wrong to say abolishing the law eliminates any
basis for condemning homosexuality within the Christian
religion
According to the beliefs of some Christians.
since the objection in Leviticus is echoed separately
in parts of the NT, e.g. Rom. 1:24-28.
Why is your interpretation more valid than theirs?
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"I don't try to imagine a God; it suffices to stand in awe of the structure of the world
insofar as it allows our inadequate senses to appreciate it."
- Letter to S. Flesch, April 16, 1954; Einstein Archive 30-1154
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| User: "Kater Moggin" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
26 Oct 2006 07:05:22 PM |
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Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
you don't realize that atheists don't care about your internecine
wars.
I realize you cared enough to wrongly claim that Christian
morals require a Christian mother to kill disrespectful
children because the Bible says so -- you didn't understand the
NT often (though not always) declares the end of the law --
and you cared enough to say the end of the law "would eliminate
the ban on homosexuality" within Christianity: not
necessarily so, since the NT makes objections separate from the
ban in Leviticus.
-- Moggin
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
26 Oct 2006 10:06:59 PM |
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On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 00:05:22 GMT, Kater Moggin <kimmerian@fastmail.fm>
wrote:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
you don't realize that atheists don't care about your internecine
wars.
I realize you cared enough to wrongly claim that Christian
morals require a Christian mother to kill disrespectful
children because the Bible says so
If she accepts the OT as still being in effect she does.
-- you didn't understand the
NT often (though not always) declares the end of the law --
It also declares that the law is still in effect. You can find
anything you want in the NT.
and you cared enough to say the end of the law "would eliminate
the ban on homosexuality" within Christianity
If you believe that Levitical law still applies.
: not
necessarily so, since the NT makes objections separate from the
ban in Leviticus.
That depends on what you read into each. There's nothing in the Bible
that's spelled out so clearly that you can't "interpret" it to mean
whatever you want it to mean.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education and social
ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he
had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death."
-Albert Einstein
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| User: "Kater Moggin" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
27 Oct 2006 08:37:17 PM |
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Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
You can find anything you want in the NT.
You couldn't find anywhere the NT erases the Law, even tho
there are many examples, so you falsely claimed that a
Christian mother is required by the Bible to kill disrespectful
children.
You also couldn't find the NT's objections to men screwing
men, even after I pointed one out to you, so you wrongly
claimed that abolishing the Law would necessarily eliminate the
ban from Christianity.
-- Moggin
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
28 Oct 2006 10:42:13 AM |
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On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 01:37:17 GMT, Kater Moggin <kimmerian@fastmail.fm>
wrote:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
You can find anything you want in the NT.
You couldn't find anywhere the NT erases the Law
Jesus claims to 'fulfill' it. There are places you can infer anything
you want, even contradictory things in the same verse.
, even tho
there are many examples, so you falsely claimed that a
Christian mother is required by the Bible to kill disrespectful
children.
It says so in the Bible.
You also couldn't find the NT's objections to men screwing
men
Plenty of them, just no prohibitions on homosexuality.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"Atheism is the world of reality, it is reason, it is freedom. Atheism is
human concern, and intellectual honesty to a degree that the religious mind
cannot begin to understand. And yet it is more than this. Atheism is not an
old religion, it is not a new and coming religion, in fact it is not, and
never has been, a religion at all. The definition of Atheism is magnificent in
its simplicity: Atheism is merely the bed-rock of sanity in a world of
madness."
[Atheism: An Affirmative View, by Emmett F. Fields]
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| User: "Kater Moggin" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
29 Oct 2006 01:12:40 AM |
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Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
There are places you can infer anything
you want, even contradictory things in the same verse.
You're weaseling again, Al. You claimed Christian mothers
are _required_ by the Bible to kill their disrespectful
children, not realizing that the Christian scriptures sometimes
say the law has come to an end.
Plenty of them, just no prohibitions on homosexuality.
False by your own words. You plainly referred to "the ban
on homosexuality" in the OT, which prohibits precisely the
same act Romans 1 condemns, viz. men fucking men, in the verses
you earlier erased from your reply.
-- Moggin
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
29 Oct 2006 03:23:26 AM |
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On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 06:12:40 GMT, Kater Moggin <kimmerian@fastmail.fm>
wrote:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
There are places you can infer anything
you want, even contradictory things in the same verse.
You're weaseling again, Al. You claimed Christian mothers
are _required_ by the Bible to kill their disrespectful
children, not realizing that the Christian scriptures sometimes
say the law has come to an end.
Those who say that law has come to an end say that other laws, laws
that they like, haven't.
Plenty of them, just no prohibitions on homosexuality.
False by your own words.
Point out prohibitions against homosexuality (not men having sex with
men, which isn't homosexuality).
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus
was not born of a virgin."
Cardinal Bellarmine,[1615, during the trial of Galileo]
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| User: "Kater Moggin" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
29 Oct 2006 07:10:25 PM |
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Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
Those who say that law has come to an end say that other laws, laws
that they like, haven't.
True. And in some cases they can point to places the laws
that they like are affirmed in the NT separately from the
Hebrew scriptures. But not so for the law which makes death by
stoning punishment for rebellious kids. Ergo your idea a
Christian mother is required to apply that commandment is wrong.
Point out prohibitions against homosexuality (not men having sex with
men, which isn't homosexuality).
False by your own words. You plainly referred to "the ban
on homosexuality" in the OT, which prohibits precisely the
same act Romans 1 condemns, viz. men fucking men, in the verses
you earlier erased from your reply.
-- Moggin
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Sound of Trumpet Christian Morality: Minister's Son Sentenced for Rape of Woman |
30 Oct 2006 09:40:28 AM |
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On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 01:10:25 GMT, Kater Moggin <kimmerian@fastmail.fm>
wrote:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>:
Those who say that law has come to an end say that other laws, laws
that they like, haven't.
True. And in some cases they can point to places the laws
that they like are affirmed in the NT separately from the
Hebrew scriptures.
And in many cases they can't, but they claim that others (never
themselves, because laws they want to violate have come to an end) are
violating the Levitical laws.
Point out prohibitions against homosexuality (not men having sex with
men, which isn't homosexuality).
False by your own words.
How can a request be false?
You plainly referred to "the ban on homosexuality" in the OT, which prohibits precisely the
same act
Homosexuality is not an act. Please point out where in the bible
HOMOSEXUALITY, not an act, is prohibited.
condemns, viz. men fucking men
Which is not homosexuality, it's men fucking men. If you don't know
the difference just admit it.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"Never in human history have such genocide and cruelty been
witnessed. Such a genocide was never seen in the time of the pharaohs nor
of Hitler nor of Mussolini."
- Mehmet Elkatmi, head of Turkish parliament's human rights commission
on Bush's genocide in the Iraq war. 11-28-2004
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