| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Jon Skinner" |
| Date: |
15 Nov 2005 03:35:03 AM |
| Object: |
Speaking of mutations... |
....I am one.
It's true. A couple of years back I had to get my kidneys x-rayed after
an accident. They pumped me full of some radioactive stuff and took
pictures of me insides. When the doctor was looking at the results he
said "That's a bit wierd..."
It turns out I have two tubes going from kidney to bladder, on both
sides, where there's only supposed to be one. The doctor wasn't all that
concerned about it, and said it's "just one of those glitches that turn
up in reproduction sometimes". Fairly common, apparently. Some people
get six toes; I got two tubes. Bully for me.
I didn't keep the x-rays, but wish I had so that I could wave them in
the face of any passing creationist who wants 'proof' of evolution.
Well... okay, it's not proof of evolution, but it's the sort of mutation
that is the raw material of evolution. I wish I could think of a
situation where it would give me a survival advantage though - then I'd
have an argument for the fundies. As it is, I can always ask "How come
God fucked up my innards? - Was he pissed or something?"
In a funny kind of way it personalises the evolution/creation debate for
me. I'm an evolved life form, and I've got the mutation to prove it!
--
Jon
a.a.#277
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: Speaking of mutations... |
21 Nov 2005 07:29:00 PM |
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On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 09:42:28 +1030, in alt.atheism ,
jskinner@senet.com.au (Jon Skinner) in
<1h6bk13.ygqig9dojv16N%jskinner@senet.com.au> wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 18:58:59 +1030, in alt.atheism ,
jskinner@senet.com.au (Jon Skinner) in
<1h68igb.rhuqgh1yovklmN%jskinner@senet.com.au> wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 21:50:45 +1030, in alt.atheism ,
jskinner@senet.com.au (Jon Skinner) in
<1h66wgm.1g98vcs185gctoN%jskinner@senet.com.au> wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
I saw a guy with six fingers on each hand the other night on
Ripley's. In most six finger mutations, the extra finger is
unusable and is often chopped off, but in this case, the man's
extra fingers were completely controllable by him. They didn't
say whether or not his trait was inheritable or not, and it's
left me wondering about it.
I wonder - without meaning to be flippant - does he play the piano?
Or guitar?
Evidence suggests that 6 fingers would make him a bad guitarist. 5
seems more than optimal.
Six would make him a guitarist with more options.
Or an extra finger to get in the way?
Whether he was good or bad would depend on his natural talent,
imagination, and practice, practice, practice.
Did you read the links I gave or are you just winging it?
Just winging it - in a bleary-eyed, long-day-at-work kinda way.
Ok, then I'll help. Jerry Garcia, one of the best known guitarists of
the last 25 years, was missing part of a finger. Django Reinhardt,
one of the best guitarists of the 20thC had two mangled and useless
finger. Of course this is a nonsensically small sample and useless for
an actual claim. But it is the kind of neat bit of trivia that makes
the Usenet worthwhile.
Riiight. So what you're saying is that the best guitarist in the world
would have no fingers at all - just a bloodied stump. How would he hold
his spliff though?
Velcro?
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: Speaking of mutations... |
16 Nov 2005 01:33:28 AM |
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On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 22:59:25 GMT, in alt.atheism , Elroy Willis
<elroywillis@swbell.net> in
<vtokn11u43dpjtlm430h2vsutlo90iom0b@4ax.com> wrote:
Matt Silberstein wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> in
Matt Silberstein wrote in alt.atheism
in alt.atheism Carl Kaufmann wrote:
Jon Skinner wrote:
<snip>
In a funny kind of way it personalises the evolution/creation debate for
me. I'm an evolved life form, and I've got the mutation to prove it!
It would stick a sock in the 'mutations are lethal' line of argument,
at the very least.
If it were a mutation, sure.
If it's inheritable, then whoever first had the trait can be
considered to have had a mutation, right?
If it is inheritable, sure. I don't know that it is inheritable and
not simply a developmental difference. Nor, I suspect, do any of you,
but you keep talking about it being genetic.
Seems that the chances are reasonable that it's an inheritable trait
to me. Even if it's a recessive trait, the original trait was a
mutation.
Recessive has nothing to do with the question, the question is whether
or not it is genetic. Siamese twins, for example, are not an inherited
"error", it is a developmental problem.
Not surprisingly we have internal as well as external variation. Not
always things like extra tubes, but there is variation in number of bones
and muscles and such like. Some developmental, some genetic.
I saw a guy with six fingers on each hand the other night on Ripley's.
In most six finger mutations, the extra finger is unusable and is
often chopped off, but in this case, the man's extra fingers were
completely controllable by him. They didn't say whether or not his
trait was inheritable or not, and it's left me wondering about it.
What's interesting is that he was in the army, and during his whole
time in the army, nobody even noticed he had an extra finger on each
hand.
Extra digit are genetic. And dominant, at least in cats they are.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
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| User: "wbarwell" |
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| Title: Re: Speaking of mutations... |
15 Nov 2005 05:28:18 PM |
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Matt Silberstein wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 13:28:28 -0500, in alt.atheism , Carl Kaufmann
<ckaufmann@cox.net> in <2Npef.1963$Xj5.1142@dukeread02> wrote:
Jon Skinner wrote:
...I am one.
It's true. A couple of years back I had to get my kidneys x-rayed
after an accident. They pumped me full of some radioactive stuff
and took pictures of me insides. When the doctor was looking at
the results he said "That's a bit wierd..."
It turns out I have two tubes going from kidney to bladder, on
both sides, where there's only supposed to be one. The doctor
wasn't all that concerned about it, and said it's "just one of
those glitches that turn up in reproduction sometimes". Fairly
common, apparently. Some people get six toes; I got two tubes.
Bully for me.
I didn't keep the x-rays, but wish I had so that I could wave them
in the face of any passing creationist who wants 'proof' of
evolution. Well... okay, it's not proof of evolution, but it's the
sort of mutation that is the raw material of evolution. I wish I
could think of a situation where it would give me a survival
advantage though - then I'd have an argument for the fundies. As
it is, I can always ask "How come God fucked up my innards? - Was
he pissed or something?"
In a funny kind of way it personalises the evolution/creation
debate for me. I'm an evolved life form, and I've got the mutation
to prove it!
It would stick a sock in the 'mutations are lethal' line of
argument, at the very least.
If it were a mutation, sure.
Dwarfism is a common mutation.
--
"If lightning is the anger of the gods, the
gods are concerned mostly with trees."
- Lao Tse
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: Speaking of mutations... |
16 Nov 2005 01:34:20 AM |
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On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 17:28:18 -0600, in alt.atheism , wbarwell
<wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> in <11nkqosatqlelee@corp.supernews.com>
wrote:
Matt Silberstein wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 13:28:28 -0500, in alt.atheism , Carl Kaufmann
<ckaufmann@cox.net> in <2Npef.1963$Xj5.1142@dukeread02> wrote:
Jon Skinner wrote:
...I am one.
It's true. A couple of years back I had to get my kidneys x-rayed
after an accident. They pumped me full of some radioactive stuff
and took pictures of me insides. When the doctor was looking at
the results he said "That's a bit wierd..."
It turns out I have two tubes going from kidney to bladder, on
both sides, where there's only supposed to be one. The doctor
wasn't all that concerned about it, and said it's "just one of
those glitches that turn up in reproduction sometimes". Fairly
common, apparently. Some people get six toes; I got two tubes.
Bully for me.
I didn't keep the x-rays, but wish I had so that I could wave them
in the face of any passing creationist who wants 'proof' of
evolution. Well... okay, it's not proof of evolution, but it's the
sort of mutation that is the raw material of evolution. I wish I
could think of a situation where it would give me a survival
advantage though - then I'd have an argument for the fundies. As
it is, I can always ask "How come God fucked up my innards? - Was
he pissed or something?"
In a funny kind of way it personalises the evolution/creation
debate for me. I'm an evolved life form, and I've got the mutation
to prove it!
It would stick a sock in the 'mutations are lethal' line of
argument, at the very least.
If it were a mutation, sure.
Dwarfism is a common mutation.
Some forms are, I think that some are not. Does that have any bearing
on whether the trait in question is genetic?
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
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| User: "wbarwell" |
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| Title: Re: Speaking of mutations... |
16 Nov 2005 04:28:06 PM |
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Matt Silberstein wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 17:28:18 -0600, in alt.atheism , wbarwell
<wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> in <11nkqosatqlelee@corp.supernews.com>
wrote:
Matt Silberstein wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 13:28:28 -0500, in alt.atheism , Carl Kaufmann
<ckaufmann@cox.net> in <2Npef.1963$Xj5.1142@dukeread02> wrote:
Jon Skinner wrote:
...I am one.
It's true. A couple of years back I had to get my kidneys
x-rayed after an accident. They pumped me full of some
radioactive stuff and took pictures of me insides. When the
doctor was looking at the results he said "That's a bit
wierd..."
It turns out I have two tubes going from kidney to bladder, on
both sides, where there's only supposed to be one. The doctor
wasn't all that concerned about it, and said it's "just one of
those glitches that turn up in reproduction sometimes". Fairly
common, apparently. Some people get six toes; I got two tubes.
Bully for me.
I didn't keep the x-rays, but wish I had so that I could wave
them in the face of any passing creationist who wants 'proof' of
evolution. Well... okay, it's not proof of evolution, but it's
the sort of mutation that is the raw material of evolution. I
wish I could think of a situation where it would give me a
survival advantage though - then I'd have an argument for the
fundies. As it is, I can always ask "How come God fucked up my
innards? - Was he pissed or something?"
In a funny kind of way it personalises the evolution/creation
debate for me. I'm an evolved life form, and I've got the
mutation to prove it!
It would stick a sock in the 'mutations are lethal' line of
argument, at the very least.
If it were a mutation, sure.
Dwarfism is a common mutation.
Some forms are, I think that some are not. Does that have any
bearing on whether the trait in question is genetic?
Yes. Some forms of dwarfism are not but are common
mutations. There are known mutations that repeat themselves in
populations, but not commonly. Why is that? Why are most
cases of dwarfism new mutations?
Why are some such mutations genetic and some are not?
There are deeper issues here too, there are differing
mechanisms for mutating traits. There are a lot of interesting
phenomena I'd like to know more about.
--
"If lightning is the anger of the gods, the
gods are concerned mostly with trees."
- Lao Tse
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
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| Title: Re: Speaking of mutations... |
15 Nov 2005 05:15:44 PM |
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ME TOO! I ruptured my kidney in half while playing soccer, they took an
x-ray, and found that I had TWO arteries going into each kidney instead
of the usual one. I was quite happy, since I did not need to be opened
up to have major surgery, as both halves of my kidney were still
getting blood. All I had to do was lie in the hospital for a couple of
weeks while my kidney knit itself back together. I was back playing
soccer on the third week.
This is weird. Maybe all atheists should get x-rays for the mutant
kidneys. Perhaps we are the next step in evolution? More likely we are
the previous step.
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| User: "Jon Skinner" |
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| Title: Re: Speaking of mutations... |
16 Nov 2005 06:15:23 AM |
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Neil Kelsey <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote:
ME TOO! I ruptured my kidney in half while playing soccer, they took an
x-ray, and found that I had TWO arteries going into each kidney instead
of the usual one. I was quite happy, since I did not need to be opened
up to have major surgery, as both halves of my kidney were still
getting blood. All I had to do was lie in the hospital for a couple of
weeks while my kidney knit itself back together. I was back playing
soccer on the third week.
Ouch! Did they give you that great big syringe full of plutonium before
taking the x-rays? That ***** *burns*. It was more painful that the
accident. At least you get some photos of your gizzards to take home
(and show to squemish people...)
This is weird. Maybe all atheists should get x-rays for the mutant
kidneys. Perhaps we are the next step in evolution? More likely we are
the previous step.
Maybe the 'Lack of God-Belief' gene is located in the kidneys?
--
Jon
a.a.#277
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
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| Title: Re: Speaking of mutations... |
16 Nov 2005 08:42:42 AM |
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Oh yeah, the syringe...Ewwww. The worst part for me though was when I
was going through a CAT Scan on a motorized bed. They had put a
catheter in me, and one end was hanging over the bed as I went through
the CAT Scan. The end got wedged and started to pull the inflated end
(about a 2" sphere) through my male fun parts. I think the scream I let
out could be heard throughout the entire hospital. The operator shut it
down just in time to prevent an unintentional sex change.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Speaking of mutations... |
16 Nov 2005 11:12:44 AM |
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"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1132152162.812891.228660@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Oh yeah, the syringe...Ewwww. The worst part for me though was when I
was going through a CAT Scan on a motorized bed. They had put a
catheter in me, and one end was hanging over the bed as I went through
the CAT Scan. The end got wedged and started to pull the inflated end
(about a 2" sphere) through my male fun parts. I think the scream I let
out could be heard throughout the entire hospital. The operator shut it
down just in time to prevent an unintentional sex change.
GAH! I don't have what you do and I'm cringing!
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
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| User: "Meteorite Debris" |
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| Title: Re: Speaking of mutations... |
15 Nov 2005 05:30:21 PM |
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On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 20:05:03 +1030 the ET form known as Jon
Skinner<jskinner@senet.com.au> sent a radio signal across the vast
expanse of deep space -._.--._.--._.--._.--._.--._.
...I am one.
It's true. A couple of years back I had to get my kidneys x-rayed after
an accident. They pumped me full of some radioactive stuff and took
pictures of me insides. When the doctor was looking at the results he
said "That's a bit wierd..."
It turns out I have two tubes going from kidney to bladder, on both
sides, where there's only supposed to be one. The doctor wasn't all that
concerned about it, and said it's "just one of those glitches that turn
up in reproduction sometimes". Fairly common, apparently. Some people
get six toes; I got two tubes. Bully for me.
I didn't keep the x-rays, but wish I had so that I could wave them in
the face of any passing creationist who wants 'proof' of evolution.
Well... okay, it's not proof of evolution, but it's the sort of mutation
that is the raw material of evolution. I wish I could think of a
situation where it would give me a survival advantage though - then I'd
have an argument for the fundies. As it is, I can always ask "How come
God fucked up my innards? - Was he pissed or something?"
In a funny kind of way it personalises the evolution/creation debate for
me. I'm an evolved life form, and I've got the mutation to prove it!
My brother had 2 nerves going to his heart where there should be one.
A condition that allows tachycardia of the right ventricle of the
heart. Sometimes a double signal is interpreted as a signal for 2
short not quiet complete beats in the time for 1 beat. 99.9% of the
time this does not happen and episodes are not usually threatening but
are somewhat annoying. You might remember that Stuart O'Grady had such
an attack during a recent Tour de France race. The condition is a risk
if accompanied by another serious heart condition because it more
easily facilitates fibrillation. My brother had his extra nerve burnt
out with a thermal catheter. It is possible I might have the same
condition as it is a genetic trait.
--
Remove YOUR_SHOES before replying
apatriot #1, atheist #1417,
Chief EAC prophet
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2009
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~pk1956/
Apatriotism Yahoo Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/apatriotism
ASIO/DSD bait - terrorist, suicide bomber, al Qaida
:-P
.
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| User: "Jon Skinner" |
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| Title: Re: Speaking of mutations... |
16 Nov 2005 06:15:24 AM |
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Meteorite Debris <epicurus1@YOUR_SHOESoptusnet.com.au> wrote:
In a funny kind of way it personalises the evolution/creation debate for
me. I'm an evolved life form, and I've got the mutation to prove it!
My brother had 2 nerves going to his heart where there should be one.
A condition that allows tachycardia of the right ventricle of the
heart. Sometimes a double signal is interpreted as a signal for 2
short not quiet complete beats in the time for 1 beat. 99.9% of the
time this does not happen and episodes are not usually threatening but
are somewhat annoying. You might remember that Stuart O'Grady had such
an attack during a recent Tour de France race. The condition is a risk
if accompanied by another serious heart condition because it more
easily facilitates fibrillation. My brother had his extra nerve burnt
out with a thermal catheter. It is possible I might have the same
condition as it is a genetic trait.
It's amazing that the extra nerve can just be 'burnt out' - like
unplugging a cable.
Gahhh, what stupid god plugged this in...<yank>...there, that's better!
--
Jon
a.a.#277
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Speaking of mutations... |
15 Nov 2005 05:43:39 AM |
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On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 20:05:03 +1030, (Jon
Skinner) wrote:
...I am one.
It's true. A couple of years back I had to get my kidneys x-rayed after
an accident. They pumped me full of some radioactive stuff and took
pictures of me insides. When the doctor was looking at the results he
said "That's a bit wierd..."
It turns out I have two tubes going from kidney to bladder, on both
sides, where there's only supposed to be one. The doctor wasn't all that
concerned about it, and said it's "just one of those glitches that turn
up in reproduction sometimes". Fairly common, apparently. Some people
get six toes; I got two tubes. Bully for me.
I didn't keep the x-rays, but wish I had so that I could wave them in
the face of any passing creationist who wants 'proof' of evolution.
Well... okay, it's not proof of evolution, but it's the sort of mutation
that is the raw material of evolution. I wish I could think of a
situation where it would give me a survival advantage though - then I'd
have an argument for the fundies. As it is, I can always ask "How come
God fucked up my innards? - Was he pissed or something?"
In a funny kind of way it personalises the evolution/creation debate for
me. I'm an evolved life form, and I've got the mutation to prove it!
How do you know that it's not proof positive that you are the Devil's
Spawn?**
;)
** Soon to be released as a Blockbuster Movie.
.
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
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| Title: Re: Speaking of mutations... |
15 Nov 2005 06:39:22 AM |
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On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 22:13:39 +1030 in alt.atheism, Michael Gray
(Michael Gray <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com>) said, directing the reply to
alt.atheism
On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 20:05:03 +1030, (Jon
Skinner) wrote:
...I am one.
It's true. A couple of years back I had to get my kidneys x-rayed after
an accident. They pumped me full of some radioactive stuff and took
pictures of me insides. When the doctor was looking at the results he
said "That's a bit wierd..."
It turns out I have two tubes going from kidney to bladder, on both
sides, where there's only supposed to be one. The doctor wasn't all that
concerned about it, and said it's "just one of those glitches that turn
up in reproduction sometimes". Fairly common, apparently. Some people
get six toes; I got two tubes. Bully for me.
I didn't keep the x-rays, but wish I had so that I could wave them in
the face of any passing creationist who wants 'proof' of evolution.
Well... okay, it's not proof of evolution, but it's the sort of mutation
that is the raw material of evolution. I wish I could think of a
situation where it would give me a survival advantage though - then I'd
have an argument for the fundies. As it is, I can always ask "How come
God fucked up my innards? - Was he pissed or something?"
In a funny kind of way it personalises the evolution/creation debate for
me. I'm an evolved life form, and I've got the mutation to prove it!
How do you know that it's not proof positive that you are the Devil's
Spawn?**
;)
I thought that was an extra nipple!
.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: Speaking of mutations... |
15 Nov 2005 12:05:24 PM |
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On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 20:05:03 +1030, in alt.atheism ,
jskinner@senet.com.au (Jon Skinner) in
<1h630ux.6f7jgmmydga0N%jskinner@senet.com.au> wrote:
...I am one.
It's true. A couple of years back I had to get my kidneys x-rayed after
an accident. They pumped me full of some radioactive stuff and took
pictures of me insides. When the doctor was looking at the results he
said "That's a bit wierd..."
It turns out I have two tubes going from kidney to bladder, on both
sides, where there's only supposed to be one. The doctor wasn't all that
concerned about it, and said it's "just one of those glitches that turn
up in reproduction sometimes". Fairly common, apparently. Some people
get six toes; I got two tubes. Bully for me.
I didn't keep the x-rays, but wish I had so that I could wave them in
the face of any passing creationist who wants 'proof' of evolution.
Well... okay, it's not proof of evolution, but it's the sort of mutation
that is the raw material of evolution. I wish I could think of a
situation where it would give me a survival advantage though - then I'd
have an argument for the fundies. As it is, I can always ask "How come
God fucked up my innards? - Was he pissed or something?"
In a funny kind of way it personalises the evolution/creation debate for
me. I'm an evolved life form, and I've got the mutation to prove it!
As we say to creationists, it is good idea to know the material before
posting. Do you know that this is a genetic and not developmental
difference?
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
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| User: "Jon Skinner" |
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| Title: Re: Speaking of mutations... |
16 Nov 2005 06:15:22 AM |
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Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 20:05:03 +1030, in alt.atheism ,
jskinner@senet.com.au (Jon Skinner) in
<1h630ux.6f7jgmmydga0N%jskinner@senet.com.au> wrote:
...I am one.
It's true. A couple of years back I had to get my kidneys x-rayed after
an accident. They pumped me full of some radioactive stuff and took
pictures of me insides. When the doctor was looking at the results he
said "That's a bit wierd..."
It turns out I have two tubes going from kidney to bladder, on both
sides, where there's only supposed to be one. The doctor wasn't all that
concerned about it, and said it's "just one of those glitches that turn
up in reproduction sometimes". Fairly common, apparently. Some people
get six toes; I got two tubes. Bully for me.
I didn't keep the x-rays, but wish I had so that I could wave them in
the face of any passing creationist who wants 'proof' of evolution.
Well... okay, it's not proof of evolution, but it's the sort of mutation
that is the raw material of evolution. I wish I could think of a
situation where it would give me a survival advantage though - then I'd
have an argument for the fundies. As it is, I can always ask "How come
God fucked up my innards? - Was he pissed or something?"
In a funny kind of way it personalises the evolution/creation debate for
me. I'm an evolved life form, and I've got the mutation to prove it!
As we say to creationists, it is good idea to know the material before
posting. Do you know that this is a genetic and not developmental
difference?
No one else in my family has had these x-rays done, so the truth is -
dunno. The Doc used the word 'mutation' and I took him at his word, but
then he may have been being slack with his language. It was fairly brief
consultation. He described it as a 'copying' error - as in an
instruction that gets copied twice.
Is there any way of finding out? - Without actually punching my brother
in the kidneys? (He's bigger than me)
My "Why did God screw up?" question still stands though.
--
Jon
a.a.#277
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: Speaking of mutations... |
16 Nov 2005 10:07:04 AM |
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On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 22:45:22 +1030, in alt.atheism ,
jskinner@senet.com.au (Jon Skinner) in
<1h64wp1.1tcr1szpujvquN%jskinner@senet.com.au> wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 20:05:03 +1030, in alt.atheism ,
jskinner@senet.com.au (Jon Skinner) in
<1h630ux.6f7jgmmydga0N%jskinner@senet.com.au> wrote:
...I am one.
It's true. A couple of years back I had to get my kidneys x-rayed after
an accident. They pumped me full of some radioactive stuff and took
pictures of me insides. When the doctor was looking at the results he
said "That's a bit wierd..."
It turns out I have two tubes going from kidney to bladder, on both
sides, where there's only supposed to be one. The doctor wasn't all that
concerned about it, and said it's "just one of those glitches that turn
up in reproduction sometimes". Fairly common, apparently. Some people
get six toes; I got two tubes. Bully for me.
I didn't keep the x-rays, but wish I had so that I could wave them in
the face of any passing creationist who wants 'proof' of evolution.
Well... okay, it's not proof of evolution, but it's the sort of mutation
that is the raw material of evolution. I wish I could think of a
situation where it would give me a survival advantage though - then I'd
have an argument for the fundies. As it is, I can always ask "How come
God fucked up my innards? - Was he pissed or something?"
In a funny kind of way it personalises the evolution/creation debate for
me. I'm an evolved life form, and I've got the mutation to prove it!
As we say to creationists, it is good idea to know the material before
posting. Do you know that this is a genetic and not developmental
difference?
No one else in my family has had these x-rays done, so the truth is -
dunno. The Doc used the word 'mutation' and I took him at his word, but
then he may have been being slack with his language. It was fairly brief
consultation. He described it as a 'copying' error - as in an
instruction that gets copied twice.
The other question is whether the mutation is the germ line or not.
Is there any way of finding out? - Without actually punching my brother
in the kidneys? (He's bigger than me)
I am sure it is well known, but I don't know. GIYF.
My "Why did God screw up?" question still stands though.
We can only know it is a screw up if we know the goal.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
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| User: "Jon Skinner" |
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| Title: Re: Speaking of mutations... |
17 Nov 2005 05:20:46 AM |
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Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
No one else in my family has had these x-rays done, so the truth is -
dunno. The Doc used the word 'mutation' and I took him at his word, but
then he may have been being slack with his language. It was fairly brief
consultation. He described it as a 'copying' error - as in an
instruction that gets copied twice.
The other question is whether the mutation is the germ line or not.
Is there any way of finding out? - Without actually punching my brother
in the kidneys? (He's bigger than me)
I am sure it is well known, but I don't know. GIYF.
My "Why did God screw up?" question still stands though.
We can only know it is a screw up if we know the goal.
Okay. And I can just hear the answer to that one - "Mysterious Ways".
--
Jon
a.a.#277
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: Speaking of mutations... |
17 Nov 2005 06:26:12 AM |
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On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 21:50:46 +1030, in alt.atheism ,
jskinner@senet.com.au (Jon Skinner) in
<1h66wj3.1ynggxo167u8lcN%jskinner@senet.com.au> wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
No one else in my family has had these x-rays done, so the truth is -
dunno. The Doc used the word 'mutation' and I took him at his word, but
then he may have been being slack with his language. It was fairly brief
consultation. He described it as a 'copying' error - as in an
instruction that gets copied twice.
The other question is whether the mutation is the germ line or not.
Is there any way of finding out? - Without actually punching my brother
in the kidneys? (He's bigger than me)
I am sure it is well known, but I don't know. GIYF.
My "Why did God screw up?" question still stands though.
We can only know it is a screw up if we know the goal.
Okay. And I can just hear the answer to that one - "Mysterious Ways".
How about totally unknown?
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Speaking of mutations... |
16 Nov 2005 10:25:18 AM |
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Matt Silberstein wrote in alt.atheism
jskinner@senet.com.au (Jon Skinner) in
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
As we say to creationists, it is good idea to know the material before
posting. Do you know that this is a genetic and not developmental
difference?
No one else in my family has had these x-rays done, so the truth is -
dunno. The Doc used the word 'mutation' and I took him at his word, but
then he may have been being slack with his language. It was fairly brief
consultation. He described it as a 'copying' error - as in an
instruction that gets copied twice.
The other question is whether the mutation is the germ line or not.
Is there any way of finding out? - Without actually punching my brother
in the kidneys? (He's bigger than me)
I am sure it is well known, but I don't know. GIYF.
My "Why did God screw up?" question still stands though.
We can only know it is a screw up if we know the goal.
It could be that two tubes were normal or more common at one time, and
somehow got weeded out over time and became less common, you never
know...
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Speaking of mutations... |
16 Nov 2005 11:30:54 AM |
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"Elroy Willis" <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:l5nmn1ps2vc4frgn9ojde9fcvdkjqaibhb@4ax.com...
Matt Silberstein wrote in alt.atheism
jskinner@senet.com.au (Jon Skinner) in
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
As we say to creationists, it is good idea to know the material before
posting. Do you know that this is a genetic and not developmental
difference?
No one else in my family has had these x-rays done, so the truth is -
dunno. The Doc used the word 'mutation' and I took him at his word, but
then he may have been being slack with his language. It was fairly brief
consultation. He described it as a 'copying' error - as in an
instruction that gets copied twice.
The other question is whether the mutation is the germ line or not.
Is there any way of finding out? - Without actually punching my brother
in the kidneys? (He's bigger than me)
I am sure it is well known, but I don't know. GIYF.
My "Why did God screw up?" question still stands though.
We can only know it is a screw up if we know the goal.
It could be that two tubes were normal or more common at one time, and
somehow got weeded out over time and became less common, you never
know...
My left arm is about an half-inch longer than my right. What the heck is
the purpose of that? ;)
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Speaking of mutations... |
17 Nov 2005 07:09:18 AM |
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Robibnikoff <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in alt.atheism
My left arm is about an half-inch longer than my right. What the
heck is the purpose of that? ;)
I'm drawing a blank. Can't even think of a witty answer. :(
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Speaking of mutations... |
17 Nov 2005 08:53:28 AM |
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"Elroy Willis" <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:200pn1duo1adcfr8ui3rbj12b3ud4qj7jq@4ax.com...
Robibnikoff <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in alt.atheism
My left arm is about an half-inch longer than my right. What the
heck is the purpose of that? ;)
I'm drawing a blank. Can't even think of a witty answer. :(
Damnit! ;)
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Speaking of mutations... |
17 Nov 2005 09:34:41 AM |
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Robibnikoff <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
Robibnikoff <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in alt.atheism
My left arm is about an half-inch longer than my right.
How did you discover that, exactly? While trying on clothes or from
some X-rays or something else?
What the heck is the purpose of that? ;)
I'm drawing a blank. Can't even think of a witty answer. :(
Damnit! ;)
Your deformity provides a market for all the "irregular" clothing
outlets out there, and that's a GOOD thing. All part of some perfect
plan no doubt... :)
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Speaking of mutations... |
17 Nov 2005 10:42:47 AM |
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"Elroy Willis" <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:f67pn1pjonco4j514g82dkplutn7nnveco@4ax.com...
Robibnikoff <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
Robibnikoff <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in alt.atheism
My left arm is about an half-inch longer than my right.
How did you discover that, exactly? While trying on clothes or from
some X-rays or something else?
What the heck is the purpose of that? ;)
I'm drawing a blank. Can't even think of a witty answer. :(
Damnit! ;)
Your deformity provides a market for all the "irregular" clothing
outlets out there, and that's a GOOD thing. All part of some perfect
plan no doubt... :)
Ha! That's what my husband used to say, that there wasn't anything wrong
with me and that it was the shirt. Hello! There's something wrong with
EVERY shirt/blouse/sweater, etc. I own!
The witchling's got the same "deformity". Mutants unite! ;)
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Speaking of mutations... |
18 Nov 2005 07:36:26 AM |
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Robibnikoff <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
Robibnikoff <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
Robibnikoff <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in alt.atheism
My left arm is about an half-inch longer than my right.
How did you discover that, exactly? While trying on clothes or from
some X-rays or something else?
What the heck is the purpose of that? ;)
I'm drawing a blank. Can't even think of a witty answer. :(
Damnit! ;)
Your deformity provides a market for all the "irregular" clothing
outlets out there, and that's a GOOD thing. All part of some perfect
plan no doubt... :)
Ha! That's what my husband used to say, that there wasn't anything wrong
with me and that it was the shirt. Hello! There's something wrong with
EVERY shirt/blouse/sweater, etc. I own!
The witchling's got the same "deformity". Mutants unite! ;)
It was probably all the toad handling that shrunk up your right arm.
It's your right arm that's shorter, not your left arm that's longer...
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Speaking of mutations... |
18 Nov 2005 11:00:42 AM |
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"Elroy Willis" <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:4plrn1pkdgnamns94tk4ma1eeilnb9psqf@4ax.com...
Robibnikoff <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
Robibnikoff <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
Robibnikoff <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in alt.atheism
My left arm is about an half-inch longer than my right.
How did you discover that, exactly? While trying on clothes or from
some X-rays or something else?
What the heck is the purpose of that? ;)
I'm drawing a blank. Can't even think of a witty answer. :(
Damnit! ;)
Your deformity provides a market for all the "irregular" clothing
outlets out there, and that's a GOOD thing. All part of some perfect
plan no doubt... :)
Ha! That's what my husband used to say, that there wasn't anything wrong
with me and that it was the shirt. Hello! There's something wrong with
EVERY shirt/blouse/sweater, etc. I own!
The witchling's got the same "deformity". Mutants unite! ;)
It was probably all the toad handling that shrunk up your right arm.
It's your right arm that's shorter, not your left arm that's longer...
Oh my, I think you've got something there. And I did have a terrible
problem with warts as a child as well ;)
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
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| User: "towelie" |
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| Title: Re: Speaking of mutations... |
16 Nov 2005 11:09:30 AM |
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TV's Elroy Willis wrote:
Matt Silberstein wrote in alt.atheism
jskinner@senet.com.au (Jon Skinner) in
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
As we say to creationists, it is good idea to know the material before
posting. Do you know that this is a genetic and not developmental
difference?
No one else in my family has had these x-rays done, so the truth is -
dunno. The Doc used the word 'mutation' and I took him at his word, but
then he may have been being slack with his language. It was fairly
brief consultation. He described it as a 'copying' error - as in an
instruction that gets copied twice.
The other question is whether the mutation is the germ line or not.
Is there any way of finding out? - Without actually punching my brother
in the kidneys? (He's bigger than me)
I am sure it is well known, but I don't know. GIYF.
My "Why did God screw up?" question still stands though.
We can only know it is a screw up if we know the goal.
It could be that two tubes were normal or more common at one time, and
somehow got weeded out over time and became less common, you never
know...
Two tubes would be a definite advantage if a kidney stone were to form in
one of the tubes...
--
aa #2133
ap #19
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: Speaking of mutations... |
16 Nov 2005 11:26:40 AM |
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On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 11:09:30 -0600, in alt.atheism , "towelie"
<bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> in <wKidnaHbYdtT-ubeRVn-tg@centurytel.net>
wrote:
TV's Elroy Willis wrote:
Matt Silberstein wrote in alt.atheism
jskinner@senet.com.au (Jon Skinner) in
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
As we say to creationists, it is good idea to know the material before
posting. Do you know that this is a genetic and not developmental
difference?
No one else in my family has had these x-rays done, so the truth is -
dunno. The Doc used the word 'mutation' and I took him at his word, but
then he may have been being slack with his language. It was fairly
brief consultation. He described it as a 'copying' error - as in an
instruction that gets copied twice.
The other question is whether the mutation is the germ line or not.
Is there any way of finding out? - Without actually punching my brother
in the kidneys? (He's bigger than me)
I am sure it is well known, but I don't know. GIYF.
My "Why did God screw up?" question still stands though.
We can only know it is a screw up if we know the goal.
It could be that two tubes were normal or more common at one time, and
somehow got weeded out over time and became less common, you never
know...
Given that one tube is common across mammals I doubt it was normal.
But that only tells us history, "screw up" is a value judgment, not a
path. You can't make value judgments without standards.
Two tubes would be a definite advantage if a kidney stone were to form in
one of the tubes...
Possibly. Or it would reduce the urinary pressure to clear a smaller
stone, leading to a partial blockage that could lead to other
problems.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
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