| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Tim Tyler" |
| Date: |
20 Jan 2008 03:17:21 AM |
| Object: |
Stalin, Mao - death in the name of atheism? |
``Stalin, Mao, maybe they happened to
be atheists, but they did not do
their deeds in the name of atheism.''
- Richard Dawkins, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm4HbqUKmY0
That seems to be the extent of his argument.
Isn't the point that religion would probably
have *stopped* such behaviour, via traditional
moral strictures against killing?
That Stalin, Mao, etc didn't do their deeds in
the name of atheism does not seem very relevant -
the issue is more that their atheism didn't
have any moral defenses to *stop* them.
I think that there's a /genuine/ image problem
for intelligent atheists here - and Dawkins's
attempt to brush it under the carpet strikes me
as being ineffectual.
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ Remove lock to reply.
.
|
|
| User: "JTEM" |
|
| Title: Re: Stalin, Mao - death in the name of atheism? |
20 Jan 2008 04:48:28 AM |
|
|
Tim Tyler <seemy...@cyberspace.org> wrote:
Isn't the point that religion would probably
have *stopped* such behaviour, via traditional
moral strictures against killing?
You're kidding, right?
Stalin, just like Christian fundies, denounced evolution,
and an evolution-free Soviet "biology" was invented.
This snake oil was later exported to China, were evolution
was banned, and it contributed to the worst famine in the
history of the planet Earth.
That Stalin, Mao, etc didn't do their deeds in
the name of atheism does not seem very relevant -
What seems relevant is the fact that fundamentalists
Protestants, if given their place, would have slaughtered
as many or more people.... for many of the same
reasons...
.
|
|
|
| User: "Tim Tyler" |
|
| Title: Re: Stalin, Mao - death in the name of atheism? |
20 Jan 2008 06:17:13 AM |
|
|
JTEM wrote:
Tim Tyler <seemy...@cyberspace.org> wrote:
Isn't the point that religion would probably
have *stopped* such behaviour, via traditional
moral strictures against killing?
You're kidding, right?
Stalin, just like Christian fundies, denounced evolution,
and an evolution-free Soviet "biology" was invented.
This snake oil was later exported to China, were evolution
was banned, and it contributed to the worst famine in the
history of the planet Earth.
Stalin was an atheist.
I don't see how Lysenko's views are relevant.
Are you suggesting that the soviet view of
genetics were a kind of Marxist religion?
Or that Christian fundies might /inadvertently/
kill large numbers of people - through a bad
understanding of biology?
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ Remove lock to reply.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mr D. Mr" |
|
| Title: Re: Stalin, Mao - death in the name of atheism? |
20 Jan 2008 01:18:23 PM |
|
|
"Tim Tyler" <seemysig@cyberspace.org> wrote in message
news:dZGkj.10841$xm1.1333@fe2.news.blueyo
Stalin was an atheist.
Stalin is actually believed to have *taken confession* on a number of
occasions during the Second World War.
Can such a man really have been 'an atheist'?
If so, who or what was he 'confessing' to? And what was he hoping to get by
'confessing'...?
Take as long as you like to think before replying...
M.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Tim Tyler" |
|
| Title: Re: Stalin, Mao - death in the name of atheism? |
20 Jan 2008 03:21:45 PM |
|
|
Mr D. wrote:
"Tim Tyler" <seemysig@cyberspace.org> wrote in message
Stalin was an atheist.
Stalin is actually believed to have *taken confession* on a number of
occasions during the Second World War.
Believed - by whom? What evidence is there for this?
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ Remove lock to reply.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mike" |
|
| Title: Re: Stalin, Mao - death in the name of atheism? |
20 Jan 2008 03:25:35 PM |
|
|
On Jan 20, 4:21=A0pm, Tim Tyler <seemy...@cyberspace.org> wrote:
Mr D. wrote:
"Tim Tyler" <seemy...@cyberspace.org> wrote in message
Stalin was an atheist.
Stalin is actually believed to have *taken confession* on a number of
occasions during the Second World War.
Believed - by whom? =A0What evidence is there for this?
Interesting if true. But it seems to me that Stalin would have
had a marathon session of confessing just to list a small fraction of
his misdeeds. I read Stalin as the kind of guy who worshipped
himself.
__________
=A0 |im |yler =A0http://timtyler.org/=A0t...@tt1lock.org =A0Remove lock to=
reply.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Savageduck" |
|
| Title: Re: Stalin, Mao - death in the name of atheism? |
20 Jan 2008 03:03:07 PM |
|
|
On 2008-01-20 11:18:23 -0800, "Mr D." <Mr D.@home.co.uk> said:
"Tim Tyler" <seemysig@cyberspace.org> wrote in message
news:dZGkj.10841$xm1.1333@fe2.news.blueyo
Stalin was an atheist.
Stalin is actually believed to have *taken confession* on a number of
occasions during the Second World War.
Can such a man really have been 'an atheist'?
If so, who or what was he 'confessing' to? And what was he hoping to
get by 'confessing'...?
Take as long as you like to think before replying...
M.
Just remember Stalin was Seminary educated and was able to use that to
finely hone his skills as a power hungry thug. Stalin like Hitler would
act ruthlessly to maintain power even using the tried and tested
methods of Christian terror.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Christopher A.Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: Stalin, Mao - death in the name of atheism? |
20 Jan 2008 01:57:47 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 19:18:23 GMT, "Mr D." <Mr D.@home.co.uk> wrote:
"Tim Tyler" <seemysig@cyberspace.org> wrote in message
news:dZGkj.10841$xm1.1333@fe2.news.blueyo
Stalin was an atheist.
Stalin is actually believed to have *taken confession* on a number of
occasions during the Second World War.
Can such a man really have been 'an atheist'?
If so, who or what was he 'confessing' to? And what was he hoping to get by
'confessing'...?
Take as long as you like to think before replying...
Don't hold our breath waiting.
Why doesn't Tyler the Liar For God provide the same kind of evidence
that Stalin or Mao were motivated by not believing in God, that there
is for Hitler's saying he was doing the Lord's work?
Or that Cusades were with their documented Christian motivation?
Or the Protestants killing Catholics as heretics and vice versa, which
is pretty obviously religious motivation?
Or the conquistadores burning Native Americans who would not convert,
which is also obviously a Christian motivation?
Something equivalent to "Kill them all, God will care for his own"
would work.
Or the Confederate slave owners justifying their slave ownership
Biblically by calling them the descendants of Ham?
Then and only then can he bring atheism into the equation.
M.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Tim Tyler" |
|
| Title: Re: Stalin, Mao - death in the name of atheism? |
20 Jan 2008 03:45:59 PM |
|
|
Christopher A.Lee wrote:
Why doesn't Tyler the Liar For God provide the same kind of evidence
that Stalin or Mao were motivated by not believing in God, that there
is for Hitler's saying he was doing the Lord's work?
Well, frankly, you guys have swamped me with posts.
I had no idea that pointing out what seems
to me to be a fairly simple error of omission in
Dawkins's argument would lead to such a long thread.
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ Remove lock to reply.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Christopher A.Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: Stalin, Mao - death in the name of atheism? |
20 Jan 2008 04:09:56 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 21:45:59 GMT, Tim Tyler <seemysig@cyberspace.org>
wrote:
Christopher A.Lee wrote:
Why doesn't Tyler the Liar For God provide the same kind of evidence
that Stalin or Mao were motivated by not believing in God, that there
is for Hitler's saying he was doing the Lord's work?
Well, frankly, you guys have swamped me with posts.
Then you shouldn't have been so contentiously, dishonestly stupid.
And you should have taken notice of what you were told in the first
round of posts instead of your dishonest red herrings.
I had no idea that pointing out what seems
to me to be a fairly simple error of omission in
Dawkins's argument would lead to such a long thread.
You were wrong the first time, and you're still wrong.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: Stalin, Mao - death in the name of atheism? |
20 Jan 2008 10:35:37 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 21:45:59 GMT, Tim Tyler <seemysig@cyberspace.org>
wrote:
Christopher A.Lee wrote:
Why doesn't Tyler the Liar For God provide the same kind of evidence
that Stalin or Mao were motivated by not believing in God, that there
is for Hitler's saying he was doing the Lord's work?
Well, frankly, you guys have swamped me with posts.
You have swamped us with outright lies.
I had no idea that pointing out what seems
to me to be a fairly simple error of omission in
Dawkins's argument would lead to such a long thread.
Where did you point out that "omission", you nasty peice of work?
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Douglas Berry" |
|
| Title: Re: Stalin, Mao - death in the name of atheism? |
20 Jan 2008 11:01:04 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 12:17:13 GMT Tim Tyler <seemysig@cyberspace.org>
carved the following into the hard stone of alt.atheism
This snake oil was later exported to China, were evolution
was banned, and it contributed to the worst famine in the
history of the planet Earth.
Stalin was an atheist.
Yup. But he had a religious faith and fervor for the concept of
Marxism and the Revolution. Look what he did to the Red Army in the
30s - purged generals, eliminated ranks, tried to reshape a fighting
force to be a mirror of Marxist thought.
For a look at how well this worked, see the Winter War and the early
days of Barbarossa.
I don't see how Lysenko's views are relevant.
Becuae Lysenko's theories matched the Marxist ideology of the Soviet
State, so Lysenkoism became the default view of biology until Stalin's
death.
Are you suggesting that the soviet view of
genetics were a kind of Marxist religion?
Damn right.
Or that Christian fundies might /inadvertently/
kill large numbers of people - through a bad
understanding of biology?
Ever hear of the fundies who refuse to immunize their kids against
dangerous diseases?
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2011
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the
source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a
stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as
good as dead: his eyes are closed." - Albert Einstein
.
|
|
|
| User: "Tim Tyler" |
|
| Title: Re: Stalin, Mao - death in the name of atheism? |
20 Jan 2008 11:38:52 AM |
|
|
Douglas Berry wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 12:17:13 GMT Tim Tyler <seemysig@cyberspace.org>
carved the following into the hard stone of alt.atheism
Are you suggesting that the soviet view of
genetics were a kind of Marxist religion?
Damn right.
Well, OK. It /did/ turn out to be a delusion.
However, this thread stems from Richard Dawkins's
argument. /He/ seems to be talking about this idea:
``there exists a super-human, supernatural
intelligence who deliberately designed and
created the universe and everything in it,
including us.'' - TGD.
Marxist biology doesn't fit in so well in that
context.
Or that Christian fundies might /inadvertently/
kill large numbers of people - through a bad
understanding of biology?
Ever hear of the fundies who refuse to immunize their kids against
dangerous diseases?
Jehovah's witnesses, usually.
Religions /do/ vary in how positive their results on
society are.
At /least/ in that case, it's only their own kids that
are affected.
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ Remove lock to reply.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Douglas Berry" |
|
| Title: Re: Stalin, Mao - death in the name of atheism? |
20 Jan 2008 05:56:38 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 17:38:52 GMT Tim Tyler <seemysig@cyberspace.org>
carved the following into the hard stone of alt.atheism
Douglas Berry wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 12:17:13 GMT Tim Tyler <seemysig@cyberspace.org>
carved the following into the hard stone of alt.atheism
Are you suggesting that the soviet view of
genetics were a kind of Marxist religion?
Damn right.
Well, OK. It /did/ turn out to be a delusion.
However, this thread stems from Richard Dawkins's
argument. /He/ seems to be talking about this idea:
``there exists a super-human, supernatural
intelligence who deliberately designed and
created the universe and everything in it,
including us.'' - TGD.
Marxist biology doesn't fit in so well in that
context.
No, Marxism believed that history was an inevitable progression from
slavery to True Communism. Just as little logic as any religious
belief. True Marxists sound a lot like Fundies when they talk about
the coming Revolution.
Ever hear of the fundies who refuse to immunize their kids against
dangerous diseases?
Jehovah's witnesses, usually.
And a lot of Pentecostals and Southern Baptists.
Religions /do/ vary in how positive their results on
society are.
At /least/ in that case, it's only their own kids that
are affected.
Yeah, because diseases never spread.
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2011
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the
source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a
stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as
good as dead: his eyes are closed." - Albert Einstein
.
|
|
|
| User: "Tim Tyler" |
|
| Title: Re: Stalin, Mao - death in the name of atheism? |
20 Jan 2008 06:24:18 PM |
|
|
Douglas Berry wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 17:38:52 GMT Tim Tyler <seemysig@cyberspace.org>
Douglas Berry wrote:
Ever hear of the fundies who refuse to immunize their kids against
dangerous diseases?
Jehovah's witnesses, usually. [...]
Religions /do/ vary in how positive their results on
society are.
At /least/ in that case, it's only their own kids that
are affected.
Yeah, because diseases never spread.
ISWYM. And if you try and steer well clear, family
members still come around and knock on your door.
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ Remove lock to reply.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Savageduck" |
|
| Title: Re: Stalin, Mao - death in the name of atheism? |
20 Jan 2008 02:54:43 PM |
|
|
On 2008-01-20 04:17:13 -0800, Tim Tyler <seemysig@cyberspace.org> said:
JTEM wrote:
Tim Tyler <seemy...@cyberspace.org> wrote:
Isn't the point that religion would probably
have *stopped* such behaviour, via traditional
moral strictures against killing?
You're kidding, right?
Stalin, just like Christian fundies, denounced evolution,
and an evolution-free Soviet "biology" was invented.
This snake oil was later exported to China, were evolution
was banned, and it contributed to the worst famine in the
history of the planet Earth.
Stalin was an atheist.
Atheism had nothing to do with Stalin's paranoid, homocidal
megalomania, he didn't give a darn who he killed. It was all for power.
Trotsky ran all the way to Mexico and still ended up with an ice axe in
his skull.
I don't see how Lysenko's views are relevant.
Are you suggesting that the soviet view of
genetics were a kind of Marxist religion?
Stalin, Mao, Tito (our SOB), the Kim Clan and our neighbor Castro, all
developed cults of personality which were megalomaniacal dictatorships
in which power was/is held under the guise of
Marxism/Socialism/Communism. If there was any worship, it was of the
dictator through fear and the tool of terror.
Or that Christian fundies might /inadvertently/
kill large numbers of people - through a bad
understanding of biology?
Naah, the intelligent fundies understand biology as well as anyone, and
they kill just as deliberately as Stalin, Mao, Tito, Hitler and the
rest, all for power draped with idiology, but they lead the sheepish
believers to believe they are killing save whatever faith they are
following.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Tim Tyler" |
|
| Title: Re: Stalin, Mao - death in the name of atheism? |
20 Jan 2008 04:00:19 PM |
|
|
Savageduck wrote:
On 2008-01-20 04:17:13 -0800, Tim Tyler <seemysig@cyberspace.org> said:
Stalin was an atheist.
Atheism had nothing to do with Stalin's
paranoid, homocidal megalomania,
he didn't give a darn who he killed.
Right - but maybe he should have done.
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ Remove lock to reply.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Stalin, Mao - death in the name of atheism? |
20 Jan 2008 07:24:31 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 22:00:19 +0000 in
TvPkj.156656$036.145252@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk, Tim Tyler
<seemysig@cyberspace.org> wrote:
Savageduck wrote:
On 2008-01-20 04:17:13 -0800, Tim Tyler <seemysig@cyberspace.org> said:
Stalin was an atheist.
Atheism had nothing to do with Stalin's paranoid, homocidal
megalomania,
he didn't give a darn who he killed.
Right - but maybe he should have done.
Maybe he should have done what?
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
"Democracy is a heresy against God!" -- R.J. Rushdooney,
architect of "Christian Reconstructionism."
.
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: Stalin, Mao - death in the name of atheism? |
20 Jan 2008 10:38:35 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 19:24:31 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 22:00:19 +0000 in
TvPkj.156656$036.145252@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk, Tim Tyler
<seemysig@cyberspace.org> wrote:
Savageduck wrote:
On 2008-01-20 04:17:13 -0800, Tim Tyler <seemysig@cyberspace.org> said:
Stalin was an atheist.
Atheism had nothing to do with Stalin's paranoid, homocidal
megalomania,
he didn't give a darn who he killed.
Right - but maybe he should have done.
Maybe he should have done what?
Prayed for guidance as whom to slaughter?
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Christopher A.Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: Stalin, Mao - death in the name of atheism? |
20 Jan 2008 04:28:45 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 22:00:19 GMT, Tim Tyler <seemysig@cyberspace.org>
wrote:
Savageduck wrote:
On 2008-01-20 04:17:13 -0800, Tim Tyler <seemysig@cyberspace.org> said:
Stalin was an atheist.
Atheism had nothing to do with Stalin's
paranoid, homocidal megalomania,
he didn't give a darn who he killed.
Right - but maybe he should have done.
Just like those good Christians Hitler, Torquemada, the conquistadors,
the Confederate slave owners, Martin Luther who encouraged hundreds of
years of Protestant anti-Semitism, Catholic church fathers lithowho
encouraged 1900 years of it, the Protestants and Catholics who
slaughtered each other during the reformation, the crusaders etc?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Savageduck" |
|
| Title: Re: Stalin, Mao - death in the name of atheism? |
20 Jan 2008 06:10:04 PM |
|
|
On 2008-01-20 14:28:45 -0800, Christopher A.Lee <calee@optonline.net> said:
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 22:00:19 GMT, Tim Tyler <seemysig@cyberspace.org>
wrote:
Savageduck wrote:
On 2008-01-20 04:17:13 -0800, Tim Tyler <seemysig@cyberspace.org> said:
Stalin was an atheist.
Atheism had nothing to do with Stalin's
paranoid, homocidal megalomania, he didn't give a darn who he killed.
Right - but maybe he should have done.
Just like those good Christians Hitler, Torquemada, the conquistadors,
the Confederate slave owners, Martin Luther who encouraged hundreds of
years of Protestant anti-Semitism, Catholic church fathers lithowho
encouraged 1900 years of it, the Protestants and Catholics who
slaughtered each other during the reformation, the crusaders etc?
Strangely enough I was just thinking that myself.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: Stalin, Mao - death in the name of atheism? |
20 Jan 2008 10:38:08 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 16:10:04 -0800, Savageduck <savageduck@savage.net>
wrote:
On 2008-01-20 14:28:45 -0800, Christopher A.Lee <calee@optonline.net> said:
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 22:00:19 GMT, Tim Tyler <seemysig@cyberspace.org>
wrote:
Savageduck wrote:
On 2008-01-20 04:17:13 -0800, Tim Tyler <seemysig@cyberspace.org> said:
Stalin was an atheist.
Atheism had nothing to do with Stalin's
paranoid, homocidal megalomania, he didn't give a darn who he killed.
Right - but maybe he should have done.
Just like those good Christians Hitler, Torquemada, the conquistadors,
the Confederate slave owners, Martin Luther who encouraged hundreds of
years of Protestant anti-Semitism, Catholic church fathers lithowho
encouraged 1900 years of it, the Protestants and Catholics who
slaughtered each other during the reformation, the crusaders etc?
Strangely enough I was just thinking that myself.
What's the bet that What Tyler does not give us a corehent and
truthful reply?
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: Stalin, Mao - death in the name of atheism? |
20 Jan 2008 10:36:40 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 22:00:19 GMT, Tim Tyler <seemysig@cyberspace.org>
wrote:
Savageduck wrote:
On 2008-01-20 04:17:13 -0800, Tim Tyler <seemysig@cyberspace.org> said:
Stalin was an atheist.
Atheism had nothing to do with Stalin's
paranoid, homocidal megalomania,
he didn't give a darn who he killed.
Right - but maybe he should have done.
What?
Why?
Your Christian murderers did not!
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "DanielSan" |
|
| Title: Re: Stalin, Mao - death in the name of atheism? |
20 Jan 2008 04:13:43 PM |
|
|
Tim Tyler said the following on 1/20/2008 2:00 PM:
Savageduck wrote:
On 2008-01-20 04:17:13 -0800, Tim Tyler <seemysig@cyberspace.org> said:
Stalin was an atheist.
Atheism had nothing to do with Stalin's
paranoid, homocidal megalomania, he didn't give a darn who he killed.
Right - but maybe he should have done.
If Stalin was devoutly religious, he would've just used his religion as
an excuse to kill, like Hitler did by trying to "purify Christianity".
Hitler, 1933:
"The Government, being resolved to undertake the political and moral
purification of our public life, are creating and securing the
conditions necessary for a really profound revival of religious life."
More from Hitler:
"We all suffer from the disease of mixed, corrupted blood. How can we
purify ourselves and make atonement? The eternal life bestowed by the
Grail is only for the really pure and noble!"
If a person is a maniac, religion isn't going to help stop it; it's only
going to amplify it.
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act *
* of the whole American people which declared that *
* their legislature should make no law respecting *
* an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the *
* free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of *
* separation between church and state." *
* --Thomas Jefferson, 1802 *
****************************************************
.
|
|
|
| User: "Tim Tyler" |
|
| Title: Re: Stalin, Mao - death in the name of atheism? |
20 Jan 2008 05:23:33 PM |
|
|
DanielSan wrote:
Tim Tyler said the following on 1/20/2008 2:00 PM:
Savageduck wrote:
On 2008-01-20 04:17:13 -0800, Tim Tyler <seemysig@cyberspace.org> said:
Stalin was an atheist.
Atheism had nothing to do with Stalin's
paranoid, homocidal megalomania, he didn't give a darn who he killed.
Right - but maybe he should have done.
If Stalin was devoutly religious, he would've just used his religion as
an excuse to kill, like Hitler did by trying to "purify Christianity".
Surely it's hard to know what would have happened.
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ Remove lock to reply.
.
|
|
|
| User: "DanielSan" |
|
| Title: Re: Stalin, Mao - death in the name of atheism? |
20 Jan 2008 05:28:52 PM |
|
|
Tim Tyler said the following on 1/20/2008 3:23 PM:
DanielSan wrote:
Tim Tyler said the following on 1/20/2008 2:00 PM:
Savageduck wrote:
On 2008-01-20 04:17:13 -0800, Tim Tyler <seemysig@cyberspace.org> said:
Stalin was an atheist.
Atheism had nothing to do with Stalin's
paranoid, homocidal megalomania, he didn't give a darn who he killed.
Right - but maybe he should have done.
If Stalin was devoutly religious, he would've just used his religion
as an excuse to kill, like Hitler did by trying to "purify Christianity".
Surely it's hard to know what would have happened.
So, why was Stalin up at all? Or is this jut a mental masturbation
exercise?
And why should the actions of one atheist be any reflection on any
another atheist?
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act *
* of the whole American people which declared that *
* their legislature should make no law respecting *
* an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the *
* free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of *
* separation between church and state." *
* --Thomas Jefferson, 1802 *
****************************************************
.
|
|
|
| User: "Tim Tyler" |
|
| Title: Re: Stalin, Mao - death in the name of atheism? |
20 Jan 2008 05:58:11 PM |
|
|
DanielSan wrote:
Tim Tyler said the following on 1/20/2008 3:23 PM:
DanielSan wrote:
Tim Tyler said the following on 1/20/2008 2:00 PM:
Savageduck wrote:
On 2008-01-20 04:17:13 -0800, Tim Tyler <seemysig@cyberspace.org> said:
Stalin was an atheist.
Atheism had nothing to do with Stalin's
paranoid, homocidal megalomania, he didn't give a darn who he killed.
Right - but maybe he should have done.
If Stalin was devoutly religious, he would've just used his religion
as an excuse to kill, like Hitler did by trying to "purify
Christianity".
Surely it's hard to know what would have happened.
So, why was Stalin up at all? Or is this jut a mental masturbation
exercise?
He's up because Dawkins discounted any positive influence of
religion in his case - arguing only that Stalin did not act
"in the name of atheism" - while ignoring the possiblity that
religion might have prevented his actions.
And why should the actions of one atheist be any reflection on any
another atheist?
A bit of a loaded question :-|
The actions of atheists will be correlated to the extent that they share
traits with other atheists. The obvious trait atheists share traits
with other atheists is not believing in god - so it would be reasonable
to conclude e.g. that atheists are unlikly to attend church services.
Other actions of atheists may also be correlated with those of other
atheists - obviously with correlation coefficients depending on the
action in question.
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ Remove lock to reply.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Stalin, Mao - death in the name of atheism? |
20 Jan 2008 07:25:19 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 23:58:11 +0000 in
neRkj.233037$S37.200710@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk, Tim Tyler
<seemysig@cyberspace.org> wrote:
DanielSan wrote:
Tim Tyler said the following on 1/20/2008 3:23 PM:
DanielSan wrote:
Tim Tyler said the following on 1/20/2008 2:00 PM:
Savageduck wrote:
On 2008-01-20 04:17:13 -0800, Tim Tyler <seemysig@cyberspace.org>
said:
Stalin was an atheist.
Atheism had nothing to do with Stalin's paranoid, homocidal
megalomania, he didn't give a darn who he killed.
Right - but maybe he should have done.
If Stalin was devoutly religious, he would've just used his religion
as an excuse to kill, like Hitler did by trying to "purify
Christianity".
Surely it's hard to know what would have happened.
So, why was Stalin up at all? Or is this jut a mental masturbation
exercise?
He's up because Dawkins discounted any positive influence of religion in
his case - arguing only that Stalin did not act "in the name of atheism"
- while ignoring the possiblity that religion might have prevented his
actions.
And if he'd fallen in his bathtub and broke his neck, Stalinism would
have been a footnote...
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
"Suppose we've chosen the wrong god? Every time we go to church,
we're just making him madder and madder." -- Homer Simpson
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Kenneth Doyle" |
|
| Title: Re: Stalin, Mao - death in the name of atheism? |
20 Jan 2008 06:28:10 PM |
|
|
Tim Tyler <seemysig@cyberspace.org> wrote in
news:neRkj.233037$S37.200710@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk:
DanielSan wrote:
Tim Tyler said the following on 1/20/2008 3:23 PM:
DanielSan wrote:
Tim Tyler said the following on 1/20/2008 2:00 PM:
Savageduck wrote:
On 2008-01-20 04:17:13 -0800, Tim Tyler <seemysig@cyberspace.org>
said:
Stalin was an atheist.
Atheism had nothing to do with Stalin's paranoid, homocidal
megalomania, he didn't give a darn who he killed.
Right - but maybe he should have done.
If Stalin was devoutly religious, he would've just used his
religion as an excuse to kill, like Hitler did by trying to "purify
Christianity".
Surely it's hard to know what would have happened.
So, why was Stalin up at all? Or is this jut a mental masturbation
exercise?
He's up because Dawkins discounted any positive influence of
religion in his case - arguing only that Stalin did not act
"in the name of atheism" - while ignoring the possiblity that
religion might have prevented his actions.
He quite rightly ignored that possibility because there's very little
evidence of that possibility occuring in the real world.
And why should the actions of one atheist be any reflection on any
another atheist?
A bit of a loaded question :-|
The actions of atheists will be correlated to the extent that they
share traits with other atheists. The obvious trait atheists share
traits with other atheists is not believing in god - so it would be
reasonable to conclude e.g. that atheists are unlikly to attend church
services.
Call me Ishmael!
Other actions of atheists may also be correlated with those of other
atheists - obviously with correlation coefficients depending on the
action in question.
Oooh, coefficients is it? How exactly do you arrive at these "correlation
coefficients"?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Tim Tyler" |
|
| Title: Re: Stalin, Mao - death in the name of atheism? |
20 Jan 2008 07:46:51 PM |
|
|
Kenneth Doyle wrote:
Tim Tyler <seemysig@cyberspace.org> wrote in
DanielSan wrote:
Tim Tyler said the following on 1/20/2008 3:23 PM:
DanielSan wrote:
If Stalin was devoutly religious, he would've just used his
religion as an excuse to kill, like Hitler did by trying to "purify
Christianity".
Surely it's hard to know what would have happened.
So, why was Stalin up at all? Or is this jut a mental masturbation
exercise?
He's up because Dawkins discounted any positive influence of
religion in his case - arguing only that Stalin did not act
"in the name of atheism" - while ignoring the possiblity that
religion might have prevented his actions.
He quite rightly ignored that possibility because there's very little
evidence of that possibility occuring in the real world.
So: the negative influences of religion on /causing/
conflicts get tallied up while the positive ones
on /preventing/ conflicts get ignored?
IMO, the effects of religion on /preventing/ conflicts are
actually well-recognised - e.g.:
``Attention has also been drawn by the increased engagement
of churches or church communities in the search for détente
or constructive management of conflicts. Think of the voice
of the American bishops in the nuclear debate in the eighties;
the role of churches in the democratic emancipation of Central
and Eastern Europe; or the impact of church leaders on the
conflict dynamics in several African conflicts. All have
attracted considerable attention. Not only in South Africa
with Desmond Tutu or Allan Boesak, but also, for example, in
Sudan (Assefa, 1990; Badal, 1990), Mozambique and Zaire. Mgr.
Jaime Gonçalves, the archbisop of Beira played an important
role in the realization of a peace-agreement in Mozambique
on 4 October 1992. It ended a gory war in which a million
lives were wasted and half of the population were on the
run for safety. In Zaire, Monseigneur Laurent Monsengwo
was elected as chairman of the "High Council of the Republic",
and played a central role in the difficult negotiations
between President Mobutu and his opponents. The Burundian
catholic bishops, representing half of the population,
are now mediating towards the development of a more
collegial government to prevent further violence.''
http://www.gmu.edu/academic/ijps/vol2_1/Reyschler.htm
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ Remove lock to reply.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Stalin, Mao - death in the name of atheism? |
20 Jan 2008 09:25:08 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 01:46:51 +0000 in
fQSkj.157062$036.3137@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk, Tim Tyler
<seemysig@cyberspace.org> wrote:
Kenneth Doyle wrote:
Tim Tyler <seemysig@cyberspace.org> wrote in
DanielSan wrote:
Tim Tyler said the following on 1/20/2008 3:23 PM:
DanielSan wrote:
If Stalin was devoutly religious, he would've just used his
religion as an excuse to kill, like Hitler did by trying to "purify
Christianity".
Surely it's hard to know what would have happened.
So, why was Stalin up at all? Or is this jut a mental masturbation
exercise?
He's up because Dawkins discounted any positive influence of religion
in his case - arguing only that Stalin did not act "in the name of
atheism" - while ignoring the possiblity that religion might have
prevented his actions.
He quite rightly ignored that possibility because there's very little
evidence of that possibility occuring in the real world.
So: the negative influences of religion on /causing/ conflicts get
tallied up while the positive ones on /preventing/ conflicts get
ignored?
I do like that one. How do you measure things that *didn't* happen?
By the way, I have a magic feather I wave over the Earth every day to
prevent total war from breaking out. I have proof it works:
WWIII hasn't happened has it?
QED
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace
alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing
it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."
- H. L. Mencken
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
Anti-Christian Liberal Atheism: Death Of America
The Death of Atheism and the Birth of Malignant Gods
ATHEISM CULT OF DEATH: THREATENS TO WIPE PART OF MANKIND!!!!!!!!!!
alt.abortion,alt.atheism,alt.true-crime,alt.law-enforcement,alt.prisons,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.immigration,alt.non.racism,alt.activism.death-penalty
Re: Death is the only known cure for Atheism
atheism gave us death camps
Columnist: Science - Atheism's Death Knell?
Re: "Atheism is the death of hope, the suicide of the soul....."
| Atheism and Death
What hypocrites! Their atheism is worthless. They deserve the same death as they are giving innocent unborn babies!
Re: Why is death the only cure for Atheism?
OT: "Auto "black box" convicts driver of dangerous driving causing death" (Found in alt.true.crime)
Negro violent crime rates too high. (was Re: Lee Homeboy Malvo Spared Death Penalty, Gets Life Without Parole Instead)
OT: Death
Death of an atheist, A. Einstein
|
|
|
