X-No-archive: yes

Mimi Cohen wrote:

Martin McPhillips whined:

Embryonic stem cell cultures are embryonic stem
cell cultures. Embryos are persons.

Funny how *NO* government agencies agree with you on that lie. A county
government will not issue birth certificates for fetuses, a state
government will not issue a driver's license based on the age of a fetus
and the real kicker the federal government will not issue a SS# for a
fetus and why is that? That's because the government knows that a fetus
let alone an embryo is not a *PERSON* until it is successfully *BORN*.
The non-existent "rights" of a blob of human cells do not outweigh the
g-d given and governmentally recognized rights of the already born and
living woman who might choose to terminate a pregnancy. The government
also knows and recognizes that *YOU* get no say in the matter as you,
unless "Martin" is a nickname for Matilda, can *NEVER* become pregnant.
You should just get used to the idea and butt out.

The "government" once said negroes weren't full humans,

and that women
couldn't vote.

What's your point?

Mimi Cohen wrote:

Martin McPhillips whined:

Embryonic stem cell cultures are embryonic stem
cell cultures. Embryos are persons.

Funny how *NO* government agencies agree with you on that lie. A county
government will not issue birth certificates for fetuses, a state
government will not issue a driver's license based on the age of a fetus
and the real kicker the federal government will not issue a SS# for a
fetus and why is that? That's because the government knows that a fetus
let alone an embryo is not a *PERSON* until it is successfully *BORN*.
The non-existent "rights" of a blob of human cells do not outweigh the
g-d given and governmentally recognized rights of the already born and
living woman who might choose to terminate a pregnancy. The government
also knows and recognizes that *YOU* get no say in the matter as you,
unless "Martin" is a nickname for Matilda, can *NEVER* become pregnant.
You should just get used to the idea and butt out.

The "government" once said negroes weren't full humans,

and that women
couldn't vote.

X-No-archive: yes

Mimi Cohen wrote:

Martin McPhillips whined:

Embryonic stem cell cultures are embryonic stem
cell cultures. Embryos are persons.

Funny how *NO* government agencies agree with you on that lie. A county
government will not issue birth certificates for fetuses, a state
government will not issue a driver's license based on the age of a fetus
and the real kicker the federal government will not issue a SS# for a
fetus and why is that? That's because the government knows that a fetus
let alone an embryo is not a *PERSON* until it is successfully *BORN*.
The non-existent "rights" of a blob of human cells do not outweigh the
g-d given and governmentally recognized rights of the already born and
living woman who might choose to terminate a pregnancy. The government
also knows and recognizes that *YOU* get no say in the matter as you,
unless "Martin" is a nickname for Matilda, can *NEVER* become pregnant.
You should just get used to the idea and butt out.

The "government" once said negroes weren't full humans, and that women
couldn't vote. What's your point?

My wife and kids would be amused.

Martin McPhillips <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

"Spartakus" <no.spam@this.address> wrote in message

"Martin McPhillips" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote...

Of course it's a person. There's no duality in
a human life such as person/non-person. It's
one life, one person, from conception to
death. Every inherent element of personhood
is present from conception.

Now, waitaminute, Mr. McPhillips; didn't you say just
yesterday that
aborting a pregnancy that results from rape is OK?

No, I didn't say that. I said that a pregnancy
resulting from a rape would be a genuine case
of an "unplanned pregnancy." Such a rare occurrence
does, however, present an ethical dilemma. It can
be resolved, but not easily.

Easy for me. I have ethics.

Martin McPhillips <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

"Attila" <prochoice@here.now> wrote in message

"Paulo Joe Jingy"

Oh -- "born alive"! Good golly, that must be the "magic
formula".

There is nothing magic about it. Any more than there is
something
magic that occurs when anyone qualifies for anything
based
upon age.

As
opposed, I suppose, to killing them "one instant" before
they were
"born alive". Which would obviously be perfectly fine.
I
mean that
person hasn't been "born alive" yet has it?

No, it hasn't. And it is not a person.

Of course it's a person. There's no duality in
a human life such as person/non-person. It's
one life, one person, from conception to
death.

LOL! So it's a person an instant before birth, but it's
not a person
an instant before conception.

And I suppose you think that makes sense.

Martin McPhillips wrote:

There's no justification for killing an unborn
child with the exception of saving the life
of the mother. The only ethical time for
deciding to have a child or not is before
conceiving one.

Sorry, but that's not even an excuse. Part of the responsibility of
being a parent is to protect your child and ensure his safety even,
should it ever come to this, at the expense of your own life.

Martin McPhillips wrote:

"Attila" <prochoice@here.now> wrote in message
news:d33uo1dg3k35umbtm9iio21e2vjvqojv2o@4ax.com...

On 1 Dec 2005 01:07:40 -0800, "Paulo Joe Jingy"
<dblizz@gmail.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<1133428059.989782.192420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
wrote:

Attila wrote:

On 30 Nov 2005 05:58:14 -0800,

The aborted baby does not suffer depression because
the
aborted baby is
dead via murder.

Not if you are speaking English and talking about
anywhere abortion is
legal. Murder requires an illegal component.
Without
this illegal
component an act can no more be murder than a
hamburger
can be a
hamburger without meat or a cow be a cow without four
legs and bovine
DNA.

It is impossible for a legal act to be illegal - it
simply cannot
happen, To talk as if it can is to dishonestly
foster a
lie and
deception, as well as clearly indicating the audience
is
too dumb to
know what is being said.

Hitler did not feel guilt / depression about his
murdering millions of
people; in fact, Hitler claimed such murder was
justified and he was
proud of it.

But every person killed by the Nazi government was
born
alive.

Oh -- "born alive"! Good golly, that must be the
"magic
formula".

There is nothing magic about it. Any more than there
is
something
magic that occurs when anyone qualifies for anything
based
upon age.

As
opposed, I suppose, to killing them "one instant"
before
they were
"born alive". Which would obviously be perfectly fine.
I
mean that
person hasn't been "born alive" yet has it?

No, it hasn't. And it is not a person.

Of course it's a person. There's no duality in
a human life such as person/non-person. It's
one life, one person, from conception to
death. Every inherent element of personhood
is present from conception.

There's no justification for killing an unborn
child with the exception of saving the life
of the mother. The only ethical time for
deciding to have a child or not is before
conceiving one.

Sorry, but that's not even an excuse. Part of the
responsibility of
being a parent is to protect your child and ensure his
safety even,
should it ever come to this, at the expense of your own
life.

Martin McPhillips wrote:

Of course it's a person. There's no duality in
a human life such as person/non-person.

It's one life, one person, from conception to
death.

Now there is an argument for ya. Proof by
blatant assertion.

Every inherent element of personhood
is present from conception.

LOL! Yeah right. Just like an acorn is an oak tree.
And everyone knows that the eggs you buy at the
store are really chickens. Yeah, good thinkin.'

There's no justification for killing an unborn
child

Who cares what your unsupported, unevidenced
opinion is?

Tell us what a zygote has in common with a child.

Clearly an acorn is not an oak tree.

Likewise a zygote
possesses none of the attributes that we associate with
personhood: Those that allow a person to think, feel,
and behave like a human. That would be a working
human nervous system.