Study: Neanderthals hadL'language Gene'



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "Michelle Malkin"
Date: 18 Oct 2007 08:02:30 PM
Object: Study: Neanderthals hadL'language Gene'
http://www.world-science.net/othernews/071018_foxp2-neanderthal.htm
Study: Neanderthals had "language gene"
Oct. 18, 2007
Courtesy Cell Press
and World Science staff
Hu­mans' clos­est ex­tinct rel­a­tives, the Ne­an­der­thals, pos­sessed a
key gene var­i­ant be­lieved to be re­lat­ed to our abil­ity to speak,
re­search­ers have found. The dis­co­very, they said, shows that this
muta­t­ion arose much ear­li­er than sci­en­tists had sus­pected, and raises
at least the pos­si­bil­ity that Ne­an­der­thals could talk.
"From the point of view of this gene, there is no rea­son to think that
Ne­an­der­thals would not have had the abil­ity for lan­guage," said
Jo­han­nes Krause of the Max Planck In­sti­tute for Ev­o­lu­tion­ary
An­thro­po­l­ogy in Leip­zig, Ger­ma­ny, one of the sci­en­tists. He not­ed,
how­ev­er, that many oth­er as-yet-unknown genes might un­der­lie lan­guage,
so the is­sue re­mains un­re­solved.
The gene, called FOXP2, is the only one known to play a role in speech and
lan­guage, ac­cord­ing to the re­search­ers. Peo­ple who car­ry an
ab­nor­mal copy of the gene have speech and lan­guage prob­lems.
Pre­vi­ous stud­ies in­di­cat­ed that a spread in the hu­man var­i­ant
oc­curred be­cause of strong ev­o­lu­tion­ary pres­sure less than 200,000
years ago, said the in­sti­tute's Svante Pääbo. Since the Ne­an­der­thal and
mod­ern hu­man lin­eages branched apart more than 300,000 years ago, "we
would have guessed that these changes in FOXP2 would have hap­pened af­ter
we sep­a­rat­ed from Ne­an­der­thals," Pääbo said. He not­ed that the hu­man
ver­sion dif­fers from that of chimps in two places.
The researchers analyzed DNA from fos­sils found in a cave in north­ern
Spain of Nean­der­thals, an extinct sub­species of stocky hu­mans who lived
in Eur­ope and the Medi­ter­ra­nean area from around 100,000 to 30,000 years
ago.
The study marks the first time a spe­cif­ic "nu­cle­ar" gene has been
re­trieved from Ne­an­der­thals, re­search­ers added. Nu­clear genes are
those that re­side in the cell nu­cle­us, the vast ma­jor­ity of our genes.
Oth­er, more spe­cial­ized genes re­side in cel­lu­lar com­part­ments known
as mi­to­chon­dria.
The find­ing opens the door to oth­er break­throughs in un­der­stand­ing
hu­man and Ne­an­der­thal ev­o­lu­tion, the re­search­ers said. "Leav­ing
out the un­likely sce­nar­i­o of gene flow [be­tween the two lin­eages],
this es­tab­lishes that these changes were pre­s­ent in the com­mon
an­ces­tor of mod­ern hu­mans and Ne­an­der­tals," they wrote. The study is
to be pub­lished on­line Oct. 18 in the re­search jour­nal Cur­rent
Bi­ol­o­gy.
* * *
.

User: "JTEM"

Title: Re: Study: Neanderthals hadL'language Gene' 18 Oct 2007 09:56:44 PM
"Michelle Malkin" <hypati...@comcast.net> wrote:

Pre=ADvi=ADous stud=ADies in=ADdi=ADcat=ADed that a spread in the hu=ADman
var=ADi=ADant oc=ADcurred be=ADcause of strong ev=ADo=ADlu=ADtion=ADary
pres=ADsure less than 200,000 years ago, said the
in=ADsti=ADtute's Svante P=E4=E4bo.

So, many of the underlying assumptions -- on which
DNA "evidence" are based -- are wrong?

Since the Ne=ADan=ADder=ADthal and mod=ADern hu=ADman lin=ADeages
branched apart more than 300,000 years ago,

A lot further back than that, according to the latest
conclusions...
I'm extremely uncomfortable with any & all DNA
"Evidence." There are many conflicts and contradictions.
The truth is, either *Nobody* ever reports these studies
accurately, or humans are still a long ways from
understanding DNA enough to draw solid conclusions.
.

User: "ike milligan"

Title: Why monkeys can't talk 18 Oct 2007 09:00:19 PM
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:FI-dnUXeJp-4n4XanZ2dnUVZ_vOlnZ2d@comcast.com...

http://www.world-science.net/othernews/071018_foxp2-neanderthal.htm


Study: Neanderthals had "language gene"

Oct. 18, 2007
Courtesy Cell Press
and World Science staff

Hu­mans' clos­est ex­tinct rel­a­tives, the Ne­an­der­thals, pos­sessed a
key gene var­i­ant be­lieved to be re­lat­ed to our abil­ity to speak,
re­search­ers have found. The dis­co­very, they said, shows that this
muta­t­ion arose much ear­li­er than sci­en­tists had sus­pected, and
raises at least the pos­si­bil­ity that Ne­an­der­thals could talk.

"From the point of view of this gene, there is no rea­son to think that
Ne­an­der­thals would not have had the abil­ity for lan­guage," said
Jo­han­nes Krause of the Max Planck In­sti­tute for Ev­o­lu­tion­ary
An­thro­po­l­ogy in Leip­zig, Ger­ma­ny, one of the sci­en­tists. He
not­ed, how­ev­er, that many oth­er as-yet-unknown genes might un­der­lie
lan­guage, so the is­sue re­mains un­re­solved.

The gene, called FOXP2, is the only one known to play a role in speech and
lan­guage, ac­cord­ing to the re­search­ers. Peo­ple who car­ry an
ab­nor­mal copy of the gene have speech and lan­guage prob­lems.

Pre­vi­ous stud­ies in­di­cat­ed that a spread in the hu­man var­i­ant
oc­curred be­cause of strong ev­o­lu­tion­ary pres­sure less than 200,000
years ago, said the in­sti­tute's Svante Pääbo. Since the Ne­an­der­thal
and mod­ern hu­man lin­eages branched apart more than 300,000 years ago,
"we would have guessed that these changes in FOXP2 would have hap­pened
af­ter we sep­a­rat­ed from Ne­an­der­thals," Pääbo said. He not­ed that
the hu­man ver­sion dif­fers from that of chimps in two places.

The researchers analyzed DNA from fos­sils found in a cave in north­ern
Spain of Nean­der­thals, an extinct sub­species of stocky hu­mans who
lived in Eur­ope and the Medi­ter­ra­nean area from around 100,000 to
30,000 years ago.

The study marks the first time a spe­cif­ic "nu­cle­ar" gene has been
re­trieved from Ne­an­der­thals, re­search­ers added. Nu­clear genes are
those that re­side in the cell nu­cle­us, the vast ma­jor­ity of our
genes. Oth­er, more spe­cial­ized genes re­side in cel­lu­lar
com­part­ments known as mi­to­chon­dria.

The find­ing opens the door to oth­er break­throughs in un­der­stand­ing
hu­man and Ne­an­der­thal ev­o­lu­tion, the re­search­ers said. "Leav­ing
out the un­likely sce­nar­i­o of gene flow [be­tween the two lin­eages],
this es­tab­lishes that these changes were pre­s­ent in the com­mon
an­ces­tor of mod­ern hu­mans and Ne­an­der­tals," they wrote. The study
is to be pub­lished on­line Oct. 18 in the re­search jour­nal Cur­rent
Bi­ol­o­gy.

* * *

To talk you have to be able to "snarf".
.

User: "Meteorite Debris"

Title: Re: Study: Neanderthals hadL'language Gene' 18 Oct 2007 09:37:04 PM
Last time that great scribe Michelle Malkin <hypatiab7@comcast.net>=20
chipped away at his/her stone these gems of wisdom for posterity ...

http://www.world-science.net/othernews/071018_foxp2-neanderthal.htm
=20
=20
Study: Neanderthals had "language gene"
=20
Oct. 18, 2007
Courtesy Cell Press
and World Science staff
=20
Hu=ADmans' clos=ADest ex=ADtinct rel=ADa=ADtives, the Ne=ADan=ADder=ADtha=

ls, pos=ADsessed a=20

key gene var=ADi=ADant be=ADlieved to be re=ADlat=ADed to our abil=ADity =

to speak,=20

re=ADsearch=ADers have found. The dis=ADco=ADvery, they said, shows that =

this=20

muta=ADt=ADion arose much ear=ADli=ADer than sci=ADen=ADtists had sus=ADp=

ected, and raises=20

at least the pos=ADsi=ADbil=ADity that Ne=ADan=ADder=ADthals could talk.
=20
"From the point of view of this gene, there is no rea=ADson to think that=

=20

Ne=ADan=ADder=ADthals would not have had the abil=ADity for lan=ADguage,"=

said=20

Jo=ADhan=ADnes Krause of the Max Planck In=ADsti=ADtute for Ev=ADo=ADlu=

=ADtion=ADary=20

An=ADthro=ADpo=ADl=ADogy in Leip=ADzig, Ger=ADma=ADny, one of the sci=ADe=

n=ADtists. He not=ADed,=20

how=ADev=ADer, that many oth=ADer as-yet-unknown genes might un=ADder=ADl=

ie lan=ADguage,=20

so the is=ADsue re=ADmains un=ADre=ADsolved.
=20
The gene, called FOXP2, is the only one known to play a role in speech an=

d=20

lan=ADguage, ac=ADcord=ADing to the re=ADsearch=ADers. Peo=ADple who car=

=ADry an=20

ab=ADnor=ADmal copy of the gene have speech and lan=ADguage prob=ADlems.
=20
Pre=ADvi=ADous stud=ADies in=ADdi=ADcat=ADed that a spread in the hu=ADma=

n var=ADi=ADant=20

oc=ADcurred be=ADcause of strong ev=ADo=ADlu=ADtion=ADary pres=ADsure les=

s than 200,000=20

years ago, said the in=ADsti=ADtute's Svante P=E4=E4bo. Since the Ne=ADan=

=ADder=ADthal and=20

mod=ADern hu=ADman lin=ADeages branched apart more than 300,000 years ago=

, "we=20

would have guessed that these changes in FOXP2 would have hap=ADpened af=

=ADter=20

we sep=ADa=ADrat=ADed from Ne=ADan=ADder=ADthals," P=E4=E4bo said. He not=

=ADed that the hu=ADman=20

ver=ADsion dif=ADfers from that of chimps in two places.
=20
The researchers analyzed DNA from fos=ADsils found in a cave in north=ADe=

rn=20

Spain of Nean=ADder=ADthals, an extinct sub=ADspecies of stocky hu=ADmans=

who lived=20

in Eur=ADope and the Medi=ADter=ADra=ADnean area from around 100,000 to 3=

0,000 years=20

ago.
=20
The study marks the first time a spe=ADcif=ADic "nu=ADcle=ADar" gene has =

been=20

re=ADtrieved from Ne=ADan=ADder=ADthals, re=ADsearch=ADers added. Nu=ADcl=

ear genes are=20

those that re=ADside in the cell nu=ADcle=ADus, the vast ma=ADjor=ADity o=

f our genes.=20

Oth=ADer, more spe=ADcial=ADized genes re=ADside in cel=ADlu=ADlar com=AD=

part=ADments known=20

as mi=ADto=ADchon=ADdria.
=20
The find=ADing opens the door to oth=ADer break=ADthroughs in un=ADder=AD=

stand=ADing=20

hu=ADman and Ne=ADan=ADder=ADthal ev=ADo=ADlu=ADtion, the re=ADsearch=ADe=

rs said. "Leav=ADing=20

out the un=ADlikely sce=ADnar=ADi=ADo of gene flow [be=ADtween the two li=

n=ADeages],=20

this es=ADtab=ADlishes that these changes were pre=ADs=ADent in the com=

=ADmon=20

an=ADces=ADtor of mod=ADern hu=ADmans and Ne=ADan=ADder=ADtals," they wro=

te. The study is=20

to be pub=ADlished on=ADline Oct. 18 in the re=ADsearch jour=ADnal Cur=AD=

rent=20

Bi=ADol=ADo=ADgy.

I wouldn't be surprised. Why else would Ne=ADan=ADder=ADtals have had such =
a=20
large, energy expensive brain, in a cold climate which works the body's=20
thermostat overtime if they had no language.
--=20
Remove both YOUR_SHOES before replying
apatriot #1, atheist #1417,=20
Chief EAC prophet=20
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2009
Apatriotism Yahoo Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/apatriotism
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make=20
you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
.

User: "Christopher A.Lee"

Title: Re: Study: Neanderthals hadL'language Gene' 18 Oct 2007 09:43:10 PM
On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 21:02:30 -0400, "Michelle Malkin"
<hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
What is with all the hyphens between the syllables?
Whe I look at the raw message, these show up as "=AD".
"Equals/A/D" if that disappears due to reformatting..
Anybody know what this is?
I've seen it in other people's cut'n'pastee from newspapers and
magazines.

http://www.world-science.net/othernews/071018_foxp2-neanderthal.htm


Study: Neanderthals had "language gene"

Oct. 18, 2007
Courtesy Cell Press
and World Science staff

Hu­mans' clos­est ex­tinct rel­a­tives, the Ne­an­der­thals, pos­sessed a
key gene var­i­ant be­lieved to be re­lat­ed to our abil­ity to speak,
re­search­ers have found. The dis­co­very, they said, shows that this
muta­t­ion arose much ear­li­er than sci­en­tists had sus­pected, and raises
at least the pos­si­bil­ity that Ne­an­der­thals could talk.

"From the point of view of this gene, there is no rea­son to think that
Ne­an­der­thals would not have had the abil­ity for lan­guage," said
Jo­han­nes Krause of the Max Planck In­sti­tute for Ev­o­lu­tion­ary
An­thro­po­l­ogy in Leip­zig, Ger­ma­ny, one of the sci­en­tists. He not­ed,
how­ev­er, that many oth­er as-yet-unknown genes might un­der­lie lan­guage,
so the is­sue re­mains un­re­solved.

The gene, called FOXP2, is the only one known to play a role in speech and
lan­guage, ac­cord­ing to the re­search­ers. Peo­ple who car­ry an
ab­nor­mal copy of the gene have speech and lan­guage prob­lems.

Pre­vi­ous stud­ies in­di­cat­ed that a spread in the hu­man var­i­ant
oc­curred be­cause of strong ev­o­lu­tion­ary pres­sure less than 200,000
years ago, said the in­sti­tute's Svante Pääbo. Since the Ne­an­der­thal and
mod­ern hu­man lin­eages branched apart more than 300,000 years ago, "we
would have guessed that these changes in FOXP2 would have hap­pened af­ter
we sep­a­rat­ed from Ne­an­der­thals," Pääbo said. He not­ed that the hu­man
ver­sion dif­fers from that of chimps in two places.

The researchers analyzed DNA from fos­sils found in a cave in north­ern
Spain of Nean­der­thals, an extinct sub­species of stocky hu­mans who lived
in Eur­ope and the Medi­ter­ra­nean area from around 100,000 to 30,000 years
ago.

The study marks the first time a spe­cif­ic "nu­cle­ar" gene has been
re­trieved from Ne­an­der­thals, re­search­ers added. Nu­clear genes are
those that re­side in the cell nu­cle­us, the vast ma­jor­ity of our genes.
Oth­er, more spe­cial­ized genes re­side in cel­lu­lar com­part­ments known
as mi­to­chon­dria.

The find­ing opens the door to oth­er break­throughs in un­der­stand­ing
hu­man and Ne­an­der­thal ev­o­lu­tion, the re­search­ers said. "Leav­ing
out the un­likely sce­nar­i­o of gene flow [be­tween the two lin­eages],
this es­tab­lishes that these changes were pre­s­ent in the com­mon
an­ces­tor of mod­ern hu­mans and Ne­an­der­tals," they wrote. The study is
to be pub­lished on­line Oct. 18 in the re­search jour­nal Cur­rent
Bi­ol­o­gy.

* * *

.
User: "Brian E. Clark"

Title: Re: Study: Neanderthals hadL'language Gene' 18 Oct 2007 10:11:05 PM
In article <976gh31clk6litq3brtgmrp8nlhejb4ia4@
4ax.com>, Christopher A.Lee said...

Whe I look at the raw message, these show up as "=AD".

"Equals/A/D" if that disappears due to reformatting..

Hmm.
"AD" is hex for 10 and 13 in decimal; in ASCII it
indicates a linefeed followed by a carriage return.
--
-----------
Brian E. Clark
.
User: "Christopher A.Lee"

Title: Re: Study: Neanderthals hadL'language Gene' 18 Oct 2007 10:16:26 PM
On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 23:11:05 -0400, Brian E. Clark
<reply@newsgroup.only.please> wrote:

In article <976gh31clk6litq3brtgmrp8nlhejb4ia4@
4ax.com>, Christopher A.Lee said...

Whe I look at the raw message, these show up as "=AD".

"Equals/A/D" if that disappears due to reformatting..


Hmm.

"AD" is hex for 10 and 13 in decimal; in ASCII it
indicates a linefeed followed by a carriage return.

Wouldn't those be 0A and 0D? But in any case I can't imagine CR/LF
between syllables in a word.
I had been wondering if it was some kind of control for a reading
program for the partially sighted, so they could listen to it.
But it makes it almost unreadable.

.
User: "Al Klein"

Title: Re: Study: Neanderthals hadL'language Gene' 19 Oct 2007 12:30:24 PM
On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 23:16:26 -0400, Christopher A.Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 23:11:05 -0400, Brian E. Clark
<reply@newsgroup.only.please> wrote:

In article <976gh31clk6litq3brtgmrp8nlhejb4ia4@
4ax.com>, Christopher A.Lee said...

Whe I look at the raw message, these show up as "=AD".

"Equals/A/D" if that disappears due to reformatting..


Hmm.

"AD" is hex for 10 and 13 in decimal; in ASCII it
indicates a linefeed followed by a carriage return.


Wouldn't those be 0A and 0D? But in any case I can't imagine CR/LF
between syllables in a word.

I had been wondering if it was some kind of control for a reading
program for the partially sighted, so they could listen to it.

But it makes it almost unreadable.

Maybe something like WordStar's soft hyphen (put a hyphen here if the
word has to be broken to justify the line)? 0xAD is a hyphen with the
high bit set.
--
Al at Webdingers dot com
"The doctrine that the earth is neither the center of the universe nor immovable, but
moves even with a daily rotation, is absurd, and both philosophically and theologically
false, and at the least an error of faith."
- Catholic Church's decision against Galileo Galilei
.



User: "Cary Kittrell"

Title: Re: Study: Neanderthals hadL'language Gene' 18 Oct 2007 10:08:31 PM
In article <976gh31clk6litq3brtgmrp8nlhejb4ia4@4ax.com> Christopher A.Lee <calee@optonline.net> writes:

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 21:02:30 -0400, "Michelle Malkin"
<hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:

What is with all the hyphens between the syllables?

Whe I look at the raw message, these show up as "=AD".

"Equals/A/D" if that disappears due to reformatting..

Anybody know what this is?

Well, I work as much as possible in straight text, and
avoid <vulgarity warning> Microsoft output as much
as I can.
But sometimes I do end up with what Word seems to
think is straight text.
By dint of trial and terror, I've found that the =NN
convention stands for "the character whose number in hexidecimal is NN"
Thus Word thinks the tab character is =09, =20 is a
space, and =0A is their infuriating soft return, or whatever
it's called.
(I wrote a little program called `unequal' to replace these
abominations in anything I have to work with)
Characters greater than the usual 7-bit printables can
be represented too, here's a table of those:
http://www.cdrummond.qc.ca/cegep/informat/Professeurs/Alain/files/ascii.htm

(the second table)
A n y h o w, assuming the thingie you asked about is this kind
of encoding, then "=AD" would translate to the funny-looking
`i' under AD in that second table.
-- cary
.

User: "Uncle Vic"

Title: Re: Study: Neanderthals hadL'language Gene' 18 Oct 2007 10:15:43 PM
One fine day in alt.atheism, Christopher A.Lee <calee@optonline.net>
bloodied us up with this:

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 21:02:30 -0400, "Michelle Malkin"
<hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:

What is with all the hyphens between the syllables?

Whe I look at the raw message, these show up as "=AD".

"Equals/A/D" if that disappears due to reformatting..

Anybody know what this is?

I've seen it in other people's cut'n'pastee from newspapers and
magazines.


Probably your newsreader's attempt to decipher HTML. Just a guess.
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Convicted by Earthquack.
.



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