| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"JBB" |
| Date: |
07 Aug 2004 01:56:10 PM |
| Object: |
Stupid Question Can you convert to an Athiest Jew |
I have been an atheist as long as I can remember. I was reading
science books since I was 4 years old and all through my many years of
Hebrew school and my barmitzvah I refused to mention the word god in
even the speech at my barmitzvah (spelled wrong probably). I
appreciate the history but the bible is just another book on the
shelf. Hawking's books and quantum physics and the space telescope are
more my style of religion. My wife while brought up Episcopalian feels
the same way. Is it possible for her to convert to being a reformed
Jew while still maintaining her disbelief of the invisible one?
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| User: "Michelle Malkin" |
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| Title: Re: Stupid Question Can you convert to an Athiest Jew |
07 Aug 2004 09:05:50 PM |
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"JBB" <cosmo@cosmo.com> wrote in message
news:qt8ah0hmiqgaec8ossitubpsmnm41mnre2@4ax.com...
I have been an atheist as long as I can remember. I was reading
science books since I was 4 years old and all through my many years of
Hebrew school and my barmitzvah I refused to mention the word god in
even the speech at my barmitzvah (spelled wrong probably). I
appreciate the history but the bible is just another book on the
shelf. Hawking's books and quantum physics and the space telescope are
more my style of religion. My wife while brought up Episcopalian feels
the same way. Is it possible for her to convert to being a reformed
Jew while still maintaining her disbelief of the invisible one?
She could look into Secular Judaism, but why bother? If she's an
atheist, why can't she just say that she's an atheist?
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| User: "JDB" |
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| Title: Re: Stupid Question Can you convert to an Athiest Jew |
08 Aug 2004 01:16:05 AM |
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On Sat, 7 Aug 2004 22:05:50 -0400, "Michelle Malkin"
<hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
"JBB" <cosmo@cosmo.com> wrote in message
news:qt8ah0hmiqgaec8ossitubpsmnm41mnre2@4ax.com...
I have been an atheist as long as I can remember. I was reading
science books since I was 4 years old and all through my many years of
Hebrew school and my barmitzvah I refused to mention the word god in
even the speech at my barmitzvah (spelled wrong probably). I
appreciate the history but the bible is just another book on the
shelf. Hawking's books and quantum physics and the space telescope are
more my style of religion. My wife while brought up Episcopalian feels
the same way. Is it possible for her to convert to being a reformed
Jew while still maintaining her disbelief of the invisible one?
She could look into Secular Judaism, but why bother? If she's an
atheist, why can't she just say that she's an atheist?
To Michelle, she's still a bit of a hedgbetter. That's what I call
people that don't really believe in god but are worried "Just in
Case".
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Stupid Question Can you convert to an Athiest Jew |
08 Aug 2004 12:14:14 PM |
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JDB wrote:
On Sat, 7 Aug 2004 22:05:50 -0400, "Michelle Malkin"
<hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
"JBB" <cosmo@cosmo.com> wrote in message
news:qt8ah0hmiqgaec8ossitubpsmnm41mnre2@4ax.com...
I have been an atheist as long as I can remember. I was reading
science books since I was 4 years old and all through my many years
of Hebrew school and my barmitzvah I refused to mention the word god
in even the speech at my barmitzvah (spelled wrong probably). I
appreciate the history but the bible is just another book on the
shelf. Hawking's books and quantum physics and the space telescope
are more my style of religion. My wife while brought up Episcopalian
feels the same way. Is it possible for her to convert to being a
reformed Jew while still maintaining her disbelief of the invisible
one?
She could look into Secular Judaism, but why bother? If she's an
atheist, why can't she just say that she's an atheist?
To Michelle, she's still a bit of a hedgbetter. That's what I call
people that don't really believe in god but are worried "Just in
Case".
Which one? After all, there are thousands of deity constructs.
/quoting Walksalone {partial list}
kasisia kitanitowit kucumatz kukulkan
kumarbi kumokums kun tu ban pok kun tu bzan
po
kyumbe kwoth laima lesa
leza libanza lisa lodur
lowalangi mahatala makemake maheo
maito mal malamanganga'e
malamangangaifo
manitu manohel toehel manu marduk
mayon mbomba mbotumbo mehet weret
mkulumncandi moma mula djadi mungo
na'ininwn na' pe nahui ollin nainuema
nammu nanahuatl naeau narayana
nareu ne'nenkicex nediyon nefertuim
neith ngai niamye nu gua
nu kua nudimmud nut nyame
nzapa o kuni nushi no mikoto
/quote
Many deity constructs promise 'eternal' consequences for not worshipping
them and/or in the proper manner.
Further, the 'just in case' aspect indicates any deity is less than an
idiot. I wouldn't think such as stance would be looked upon
favourably.
--
Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never
stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and
neither do we.
-George Bush 2004/08/20040805
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| User: "Michelle Malkin" |
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| Title: Re: Stupid Question Can you convert to an Athiest Jew |
08 Aug 2004 05:47:12 PM |
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"stoney" <stoney@the.net> wrote in message
news:10hcnr778t5ht02@corp.supernews.com...
JDB wrote:
On Sat, 7 Aug 2004 22:05:50 -0400, "Michelle Malkin"
<hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
"JBB" <cosmo@cosmo.com> wrote in message
news:qt8ah0hmiqgaec8ossitubpsmnm41mnre2@4ax.com...
I have been an atheist as long as I can remember. I was reading
science books since I was 4 years old and all through my many years
of Hebrew school and my barmitzvah I refused to mention the word god
in even the speech at my barmitzvah (spelled wrong probably). I
appreciate the history but the bible is just another book on the
shelf. Hawking's books and quantum physics and the space telescope
are more my style of religion. My wife while brought up Episcopalian
feels the same way. Is it possible for her to convert to being a
reformed Jew while still maintaining her disbelief of the invisible
one?
She could look into Secular Judaism, but why bother? If she's an
atheist, why can't she just say that she's an atheist?
To Michelle, she's still a bit of a hedgbetter. That's what I call
people that don't really believe in god but are worried "Just in
Case".
Shouldn't she be an agnostic, then? She doesn't really
believe in a god, but she doesn't have the knowledge
to be certain (and probably doesn't believe she could
gain such knowledge). Of course, there's no evidence
for any gods, but the mere idea of a god and what it
might do to her is enough to scare her. In that case,
she should be afraid of every god that's on walksalone's
list and then some, since she has no way of knowing if
any or all of them really are gods. In her case, for her to
choose just one god to be afraid of would be silly. How
would she know it's the right one? There's really no way
for her to hedge her bet, unless she plans to fear every
god we know of and all the ones whose names have been
lost to time here and throughout the entire Universe. It
really gets dumb after awhile.
--
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
Michelle Malkin (Mickey) aa list#1
alt.atheism atheist/agnostic list name collector
BAAWA Knight & EAC Bible thumper thumper
http://questioner.www2.50megs.com
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
++ga+
-
Which one? After all, there are thousands of deity constructs.
/quoting Walksalone {partial list}
kasisia kitanitowit kucumatz kukulkan
kumarbi kumokums kun tu ban pok kun tu bzan
po
kyumbe kwoth laima lesa
leza libanza lisa lodur
lowalangi mahatala makemake maheo
maito mal malamanganga'e
malamangangaifo
manitu manohel toehel manu marduk
mayon mbomba mbotumbo mehet weret
mkulumncandi moma mula djadi mungo
na'ininwn na' pe nahui ollin nainuema
nammu nanahuatl naeau narayana
nareu ne'nenkicex nediyon nefertuim
neith ngai niamye nu gua
nu kua nudimmud nut nyame
nzapa o kuni nushi no mikoto
/quote
Many deity constructs promise 'eternal' consequences for not worshipping
them and/or in the proper manner.
Further, the 'just in case' aspect indicates any deity is less than an
idiot. I wouldn't think such as stance would be looked upon
favourably.
--
Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never
stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and
neither do we.
-George Bush 2004/08/20040805
.
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| User: "Dale" |
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| Title: Re: Stupid Question Can you convert to an Athiest Jew |
07 Aug 2004 02:15:19 PM |
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"JBB" <cosmo@cosmo.com> wrote in message
news:qt8ah0hmiqgaec8ossitubpsmnm41mnre2@4ax.com...
I have been an atheist as long as I can remember. I was reading
science books since I was 4 years old and all through my many years of
Hebrew school and my barmitzvah I refused to mention the word god in
even the speech at my barmitzvah (spelled wrong probably). I
appreciate the history but the bible is just another book on the
shelf. Hawking's books and quantum physics and the space telescope are
more my style of religion. My wife while brought up Episcopalian feels
the same way. Is it possible for her to convert to being a reformed
Jew while still maintaining her disbelief of the invisible one?
Wise men say, there are no stupid questions, but I think in this case you
might be right.
What exactly would be the point of "converting" to Judaism if she doesn't
believe in God? For the jokes? How would she adhere to the faith? Since
she's not religious, what would she be converting from?
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| User: "Eric Pepke" |
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| Title: Re: Stupid Question Can you convert to an Athiest Jew |
08 Aug 2004 03:13:31 PM |
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"Dale" <dmgreer@nspm.airmail.net> wrote in message news:<bT9Rc.3447$N51.1053@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>...
Wise men say, there are no stupid questions, but I think in this case you
might be right.
What exactly would be the point of "converting" to Judaism if she doesn't
believe in God? For the jokes? How would she adhere to the faith? Since
she's not religious, what would she be converting from?
Fairly obvious answer: so that Uncle Chuch doesn't call here a damn Shiksa
all the time and so that the new family doesn't get grief from all of the
more anal family members.
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| User: "W. Syme" |
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| Title: Re: Stupid Question Can you convert to an Athiest Jew |
07 Aug 2004 03:56:51 PM |
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On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 19:15:19 GMT, "Dale" <dmgreer@nspm.airmail.net>
wrote:
"JBB" <cosmo@cosmo.com> wrote in message
news:qt8ah0hmiqgaec8ossitubpsmnm41mnre2@4ax.com...
I have been an atheist as long as I can remember. I was reading
science books since I was 4 years old and all through my many years of
Hebrew school and my barmitzvah I refused to mention the word god in
even the speech at my barmitzvah (spelled wrong probably). I
appreciate the history but the bible is just another book on the
shelf. Hawking's books and quantum physics and the space telescope are
more my style of religion. My wife while brought up Episcopalian feels
the same way. Is it possible for her to convert to being a reformed
Jew while still maintaining her disbelief of the invisible one?
Wise men say, there are no stupid questions, but I think in this case you
might be right.
What exactly would be the point of "converting" to Judaism if she doesn't
believe in God? For the jokes?
and if she got Polish citizenship as well, there'd be no stopping
her!
--
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. (1 Thessalonians 5:21)
W. Syme (pseudonym), European, non-native English speaker, "soft" atheist.
Email will not be read.
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| User: "Witziges Rätsel" |
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| Title: Re: Stupid Question Can you convert to an Athiest Jew |
07 Aug 2004 02:52:45 PM |
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I have been an atheist as long as I can remember. I was reading
science books since I was 4 years old and all through my many years of
Hebrew school and my barmitzvah I refused to mention the word god in
even the speech at my barmitzvah (spelled wrong probably). I
appreciate the history but the bible is just another book on the
shelf. Hawking's books and quantum physics and the space telescope are
more my style of religion. My wife while brought up Episcopalian feels
the same way. Is it possible for her to convert to being a reformed
Jew while still maintaining her disbelief of the invisible one?
Answer: No
Comment on my answer: People cannot make
themselves believe something.
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| User: "Brian Westley" |
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| Title: Re: Stupid Question Can you convert to an Athiest Jew |
07 Aug 2004 02:49:55 PM |
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JBB <cosmo@cosmo.com> writes:
I have been an atheist as long as I can remember. I was reading
science books since I was 4 years old and all through my many years of
Hebrew school and my barmitzvah I refused to mention the word god in
even the speech at my barmitzvah (spelled wrong probably). I
appreciate the history but the bible is just another book on the
shelf. Hawking's books and quantum physics and the space telescope are
more my style of religion. My wife while brought up Episcopalian feels
the same way. Is it possible for her to convert to being a reformed
Jew while still maintaining her disbelief of the invisible one?
You should ask some rabbis, not atheists, about that, since they're
the ones in charge of conversion.
Here's some discourse on it:
http://www.shirhadash.org/rabbi/askrabbi/askrabbi1.html
....
For example, can an individual convert to Judaism without a belief in
God? Or, as was asked recently by a Midwestern community, can a group
of people convening for study and reflection without a belief in God,
be considered a Jewish congregation, a kehilla kedosha?
We often say that Judaism is a religion of "deed and not creed" and it
is true that in general in Judaism the stress is on what we do rather
than what we believe. However it is also true that some belief about
God, however differently expressed, has been a part of Judaism
throughout our history.
Personally, I would accept as a convert an individual who has studied
Judaism, taken on the practice of Jewish ritual, but who considered
themselves an agnostic with regard to God. After all Maimonides advised
that we know more readily what God is not, than what God is. It is an
appropriate human humility to say that we do not know the Ultimate One.
I would have more difficulty with an individual who was unwilling to
explore the issue of God, to pursue an understanding of what God has
meant to past generations of Jews, and to commit to struggling with the
issue on an ongoing basis.
....
---
Merlyn LeRoy
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| User: "Kermit" |
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| Title: Re: Stupid Question Can you convert to an Athiest Jew |
07 Aug 2004 11:15:27 PM |
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JBB <cosmo@cosmo.com> wrote in message news:<qt8ah0hmiqgaec8ossitubpsmnm41mnre2@4ax.com>...
I have been an atheist as long as I can remember. I was reading
science books since I was 4 years old and all through my many years of
Hebrew school and my barmitzvah I refused to mention the word god in
even the speech at my barmitzvah (spelled wrong probably). I
appreciate the history but the bible is just another book on the
shelf. Hawking's books and quantum physics and the space telescope are
more my style of religion. My wife while brought up Episcopalian feels
the same way. Is it possible for her to convert to being a reformed
Jew while still maintaining her disbelief of the invisible one?
Isn't that rather like converting to an atheist Baptist?
"Jew" is a religious identity and an ethnic identity, yes? If she were
ethnic Chinese, could she convert to an ethnic Slav? That doesn't make
any sense. If I understand correctly, Reform Judaism is a sect /
denomination of Jewish religion:
http://rj.org/whatisrj.shtml
You cannot honestly be an atheist and a Reform Jew. This would be the
wrong group to ask though; why not ask a Rabbi?
Kermit
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| User: "JDB" |
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| Title: Re: Stupid Question Can you convert to an Athiest Jew |
08 Aug 2004 01:18:44 AM |
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On 7 Aug 2004 21:15:27 -0700, (Kermit)
wrote:
JBB <cosmo@cosmo.com> wrote in message news:<qt8ah0hmiqgaec8ossitubpsmnm41mnre2@4ax.com>...
I have been an atheist as long as I can remember. I was reading
science books since I was 4 years old and all through my many years of
Hebrew school and my barmitzvah I refused to mention the word god in
even the speech at my barmitzvah (spelled wrong probably). I
appreciate the history but the bible is just another book on the
shelf. Hawking's books and quantum physics and the space telescope are
more my style of religion. My wife while brought up Episcopalian feels
the same way. Is it possible for her to convert to being a reformed
Jew while still maintaining her disbelief of the invisible one?
Isn't that rather like converting to an atheist Baptist?
"Jew" is a religious identity and an ethnic identity, yes? If she were
ethnic Chinese, could she convert to an ethnic Slav? That doesn't make
any sense. If I understand correctly, Reform Judaism is a sect /
denomination of Jewish religion:
http://rj.org/whatisrj.shtml
You cannot honestly be an atheist and a Reform Jew. This would be the
wrong group to ask though; why not ask a Rabbi?
Kermit
Kermit, Your answer is the best. I will ask a Rabbi as they seem to be
honorable men. My rabbi allowed me to leave the word god out of my
barmitzvah speach as long as I read the torah as it was written, A
fair trade for a 13 year old athiest.
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| User: "Apostate" |
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| Title: Re: Stupid Question Can you convert to an Athiest Jew |
07 Aug 2004 04:08:01 PM |
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On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 11:56:10 -0700, JBB <cosmo@cosmo.com> wrote in alt.atheism:
I have been an atheist as long as I can remember. I was reading
science books since I was 4 years old and all through my many years of
Hebrew school and my barmitzvah I refused to mention the word god in
even the speech at my barmitzvah (spelled wrong probably). I
appreciate the history but the bible is just another book on the
shelf. Hawking's books and quantum physics and the space telescope are
more my style of religion. My wife while brought up Episcopalian feels
the same way. Is it possible for her to convert to being a reformed
Jew while still maintaining her disbelief of the invisible one?
Erm, that's not a question for the atheist rabbinate, yanno?
--
/Apostate
atheist #(e^7.5657933) I've found it!
BAAWA Knife AND SMASHer
EAC Supernumerary Deputy Director, Department of Redundancy Department
plonked by Lani_girl, first post; billions served!
I doubt, therefore I might be.
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| User: "W. Syme" |
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| Title: Re: Stupid Question Can you convert to an Athiest Jew |
07 Aug 2004 02:08:11 PM |
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On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 11:56:10 -0700, JBB <cosmo@cosmo.com> wrote:
I have been an atheist as long as I can remember. I was reading
science books since I was 4 years old and all through my many years of
Hebrew school and my barmitzvah I refused to mention the word god in
even the speech at my barmitzvah (spelled wrong probably). I
appreciate the history but the bible is just another book on the
shelf. Hawking's books and quantum physics and the space telescope are
more my style of religion. My wife while brought up Episcopalian feels
the same way. Is it possible for her to convert to being a reformed
Jew while still maintaining her disbelief of the invisible one?
I'm pretty sure you can't. It's impossible to convert to a race, and
somehow I think a rabbi will want you to acknoledge god before
converting to the religion.
--
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. (1 Thessalonians 5:21)
W. Syme (pseudonym), European, non-native English speaker, "soft" atheist.
Email will not be read.
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| User: "raven1" |
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| Title: Re: Stupid Question Can you convert to an Athiest Jew |
07 Aug 2004 03:51:10 PM |
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On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 11:56:10 -0700, JBB <cosmo@cosmo.com> wrote:
I have been an atheist as long as I can remember. I was reading
science books since I was 4 years old and all through my many years of
Hebrew school and my barmitzvah I refused to mention the word god in
even the speech at my barmitzvah (spelled wrong probably). I
appreciate the history but the bible is just another book on the
shelf. Hawking's books and quantum physics and the space telescope are
more my style of religion. My wife while brought up Episcopalian feels
the same way. Is it possible for her to convert to being a reformed
Jew while still maintaining her disbelief of the invisible one?
Why don't you ask a Rabbi?
(FWIW, most of my Reformed Jewish friends don't believe in God, but
consider themselves Jews from a cultural perspective).
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| User: "JDB" |
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| Title: Re: Stupid Question Can you convert to an Athiest Jew |
08 Aug 2004 01:12:58 AM |
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Thank You raven, that's just what I mean. Please separate me from the
other JBB as I am JDB I was using JBB and realized the typo when I saw
the other JBB logon with a comment. My wife wants to convert from a
cultural out of a respect of the many Jews she knows.
JDB
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| User: "SillyMonkey" |
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| Title: Re: Stupid Question Can you convert to an Athiest Jew |
07 Aug 2004 08:12:04 PM |
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The old phrase, "***** or get off the pot" comes to mind immediately.
Being an atheist literally means "to be without religion, or belief in
God." I fail to see how your wife could maintain a disbelief in God
while still belonging to a religious group. Heck, she can't even
maintain a "disbelief" in any God - by its very nature, atheism holds
that there is no God to disbelieve in.
If she wants to convert to Judeism, then that's great - you should
support her in that. But if she does so while still holding no belief
in God, then she's barking up the wrong tree.
JBB <cosmo@cosmo.com> wrote in message news:<qt8ah0hmiqgaec8ossitubpsmnm41mnre2@4ax.com>...
I have been an atheist as long as I can remember. I was reading
science books since I was 4 years old and all through my many years of
Hebrew school and my barmitzvah I refused to mention the word god in
even the speech at my barmitzvah (spelled wrong probably). I
appreciate the history but the bible is just another book on the
shelf. Hawking's books and quantum physics and the space telescope are
more my style of religion. My wife while brought up Episcopalian feels
the same way. Is it possible for her to convert to being a reformed
Jew while still maintaining her disbelief of the invisible one?
.
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