Textbook war escalates as China and Korea vent their fury at Japanese rewriting of history

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Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	"maff"
Date:	11 Apr 2005 03:14:24 AM
Object:	Textbook war escalates as China and Korea vent their fury at Japanese rewriting of history

Textbook war escalates as China and Korea vent their fury at Japanese
rewriting of history
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/story.jsp?story=628297
By David McNeill in Seoul
11 April 2005
Thousands of Chinese protesters pelted the Japanese embassy in Beijing
with missiles and shouted "Japanese pigs come out" and "stop distorting
history" over the weekend, dragging Sino-Japanese relations to a new
low.
The protests against Tokyo's authorisation of textbooks that many
Chinese say whitewash Japan's 15-year occupation is the latest incident
to rock the shaky partnership between Asia's leading power and its
rising star.
Koreas
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/de0d0aa1c4db6433
Kimigayo
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/21fb92934b52403a
Yasukuni
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/6b1c0faf27765d87
China / Japan
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/9a4257d68479713f
China
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/d3294ecc38a6a57d
Japan
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/69984d4c56600f09
Is the wakening giant a monster?
http://tinyurl.com/iws6
A Blueprint for the Future
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/59c28cd6dfe6f60f
.

User: "Ernest Schaal"
Title: Re: Textbook war escalates as China and Korea vent their fury atJapanese rewriting of history	12 Apr 2005 08:18:40 PM

in article IIZ6e.1718$yl6.419117@twister.nyc.rr.com, ggg at
goodgutgut@yahoo.com wrote on 4/13/05 9:28 AM:

Ernest Schaal wrote:

There is no way looking at how the Mainlanders are that these marches
could have ended without trouble. So no they weren't peaceful. They
tried to be. They got very very upset in the crowd of other also upset
Chinese. Bad mix.

That is your excuse? That it is not their nature to be peaceful? What does
that say about the Chinese?

I wasn't thinking about excusing them. I was thinking that there's no
way this could have ended without trouble.

Frankly, I am concerned that the Japanese, Chinese, and Koreans are ALL
acting as if everything is black and white, with their view being the only
correct one. Of course, that spells trouble.
.

User: ""
Title: Re: Textbook war escalates as China and Korea vent their fury at Japanese rewriting of history	11 Apr 2005 03:23:33 PM

maff wrote:

Ernest Schaal wrote:

in article 1113215118.516681.106040@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com,

maff at

maff91@yahoo.com wrote on 4/11/05 7:25 PM:

Ernest Schaal wrote:

in article

1113207264.255332.246680@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com,

maff at

maff91@yahoo.com wrote on 4/11/05 5:14 PM:

Textbook war escalates as China and Korea vent their fury at

Japanese

rewriting of history
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/story.jsp?story=628297

By David McNeill in Seoul
11 April 2005

Thousands of Chinese protesters pelted the Japanese embassy in

Beijing

with missiles and shouted "Japanese pigs come out" and "stop

distorting

history" over the weekend, dragging Sino-Japanese relations to

new

low.

The protests against Tokyo's authorisation of textbooks that

many

Chinese say whitewash Japan's 15-year occupation is the latest

incident

to rock the shaky partnership between Asia's leading power and

its

rising star.

Apparently the Chinese don't realize how bad they look by

stoning

embassies and beating up people on the street.

Do you mean Chinese should kill Japanese just like the Japanese
militarists tortured and murdered Chinese in Nanjing?

Rape of Nanking

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/227db2b8a8a28d10

No, not as bad. But of course, Japan was at war with China at the

time.

Presently, China is not in a state of war with Japan. I don't

excuse

what

the Japanese did in China, or what the Chinese did/do in Tibet.

Do you really think China does look good when it stones embassies

and

beats

up people in the streets? I don't. I think that it makes the

government look

like a lawless country.

Instead, it seems to be more proof that the Olympics should not

have

been

given to them, at least until they can assure the safety of all the
participants.

It was individuals peacefully protesting about Japanese government's
lies about Nanjing in text books. Of ocourse, some individuals are
going to throw stones even in peaceful marches. What has it got to do
with the government?

Usually, at that point, the police move in to make arrests.
No stoners were arrested.

Police intervened before it became ugly.

Police also kindly provided buses to take the students back to campus:
http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2005/s1342389.htm
....the watching police were broadcasting this helpful message:
"The students, you are tired, there are more people to come
to demonstrate, the students, please move on, there are buses,
the buses will send the students back to the universities."
.

User: "maff"
Title: Re: Textbook war escalates as China and Korea vent their fury at Japanese rewriting of history	12 Apr 2005 04:10:03 AM

wrote:

maff wrote:

Ernest Schaal wrote:

in article 1113215118.516681.106040@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com,

maff at

maff91@yahoo.com wrote on 4/11/05 7:25 PM:

Ernest Schaal wrote:

in article

1113207264.255332.246680@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com,

maff at

maff91@yahoo.com wrote on 4/11/05 5:14 PM:

Textbook war escalates as China and Korea vent their fury at

Japanese

rewriting of history

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/story.jsp?story=628297

By David McNeill in Seoul
11 April 2005

Thousands of Chinese protesters pelted the Japanese embassy

Beijing

with missiles and shouted "Japanese pigs come out" and "stop

distorting

history" over the weekend, dragging Sino-Japanese relations

new

low.

The protests against Tokyo's authorisation of textbooks that

many

Chinese say whitewash Japan's 15-year occupation is the

latest

incident

to rock the shaky partnership between Asia's leading power

and

its

rising star.

Apparently the Chinese don't realize how bad they look by

stoning

embassies and beating up people on the street.

Do you mean Chinese should kill Japanese just like the Japanese
militarists tortured and murdered Chinese in Nanjing?

Rape of Nanking

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/227db2b8a8a28d10

No, not as bad. But of course, Japan was at war with China at the

time.

Presently, China is not in a state of war with Japan. I don't

excuse

what

the Japanese did in China, or what the Chinese did/do in Tibet.

Do you really think China does look good when it stones embassies

and

beats

up people in the streets? I don't. I think that it makes the

government look

like a lawless country.

Instead, it seems to be more proof that the Olympics should not

have

been

given to them, at least until they can assure the safety of all

the

participants.

It was individuals peacefully protesting about Japanese

government's

lies about Nanjing in text books. Of ocourse, some individuals are
going to throw stones even in peaceful marches. What has it got to

with the government?

Usually, at that point, the police move in to make arrests.
No stoners were arrested.

First you must find the stoners for any arrest.

Police intervened before it became ugly.

Police also kindly provided buses to take the students back to

campus:

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2005/s1342389.htm

...the watching police were broadcasting this helpful message:
"The students, you are tired, there are more people to come
to demonstrate, the students, please move on, there are buses,
the buses will send the students back to the universities."

Overwhelming of the protesters were peaceful.
.

User: "Jim Walsh"
Title: Re: Textbook war escalates as China and Korea vent their fury at Japanese rewriting of history	12 Apr 2005 06:09:57 AM

On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 02:10:03 -0700, maff thought carefully and wrote:
..........

Overwhelming of the protesters were peaceful.

Agree. I totally support their right to protest peacefully, even if the
CCP doesn't.
--
Love, Jim
.

User: "Ernest Schaal"
Title: Re: Textbook war escalates as China and Korea vent their fury atJapanese rewriting of history	12 Apr 2005 04:42:28 AM

in article 1113297003.831829.41110@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com, maff at
maff91@yahoo.com wrote on 4/12/05 6:10 PM:

.atheism/msg/227db2b8a8a28d10

It was individuals peacefully protesting about Japanese government's lies
about Nanjing in text books. Of ocourse, some individuals are going to throw
stones even in peaceful marches. What has it got to do with the government?

Usually, at that point, the police move in to make arrests.
No stoners were arrested.

First you must find the stoners for any arrest.

If they couldn't find the stoners, it was because the Chinese police weren't
looking.
The stoners did it right in front of the police, and the police did nothing.
NHK even had television footage of the rioters enjoying themselves throwing
rocks, and the police just standing there in multiple rows, pretending not
to notice.
.

User: "ggg"
Title: Re: Textbook war escalates as China and Korea vent their fury atJapanese rewriting of history	12 Apr 2005 06:28:05 PM

Ernest Schaal wrote:

in article 1113297003.831829.41110@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com, maff at
maff91@yahoo.com wrote on 4/12/05 6:10 PM:

.atheism/msg/227db2b8a8a28d10

It was individuals peacefully protesting about Japanese government's lies
about Nanjing in text books. Of ocourse, some individuals are going to throw
stones even in peaceful marches. What has it got to do with the government?

Usually, at that point, the police move in to make arrests.
No stoners were arrested.

First you must find the stoners for any arrest.

If they couldn't find the stoners, it was because the Chinese police weren't
looking.

The stoners did it right in front of the police, and the police did nothing.
NHK even had television footage of the rioters enjoying themselves throwing
rocks, and the police just standing there in multiple rows, pretending not
to notice.

The French and Chinese news audio caught the expressionless police
repeatedly urging the protestors to stop and that it's enough, be calm.
They were in a precarious position that day because too many people
in one place is a dangerous situation and reactions can be like
brushfire. I understand why they didn't beat the marchers who were
disrespectful and violent even though it may make Japanese genuinely
feel they were being sided against by the authorities as well. It's
something taught to Chinese children and my mother told me so before I
went to China and the lady who took care of me there demonstrated her
fear of too many of her fellow Chinese in one place. THE MASSES = yikes
and stay home. So who are the people joining up in other spontaneous
marches throughout China - they really didn't think about how they feel
about Japanese anti-Chinese behavior. They haven't thought through what
it means when someone hurts you. I don't think that phase of
psychological analysis has become a part of Chinese culture yet.
.

User: "maff"
Title: Re: Textbook war escalates as China and Korea vent their fury at Japanese rewriting of history	13 Apr 2005 02:53:22 AM

ggg wrote:

Ernest Schaal wrote:

in article 1113297003.831829.41110@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com,

maff at

maff91@yahoo.com wrote on 4/12/05 6:10 PM:

.atheism/msg/227db2b8a8a28d10

It was individuals peacefully protesting about Japanese

government's lies

about Nanjing in text books. Of ocourse, some individuals are

going to throw

stones even in peaceful marches. What has it got to do with the

government?

Usually, at that point, the police move in to make arrests.
No stoners were arrested.

First you must find the stoners for any arrest.

If they couldn't find the stoners, it was because the Chinese

police weren't

looking.

The stoners did it right in front of the police, and the police did

nothing.

NHK even had television footage of the rioters enjoying themselves

throwing

rocks, and the police just standing there in multiple rows,

pretending not

to notice.

The French and Chinese news audio caught the expressionless police
repeatedly urging the protestors to stop and that it's enough, be

calm.

They were in a precarious position that day because too many

people

in one place is a dangerous situation and reactions can be like
brushfire. I understand why they didn't beat the marchers who were
disrespectful and violent even though it may make Japanese genuinely
feel they were being sided against by the authorities as well. It's
something taught to Chinese children and my mother told me so before

went to China and the lady who took care of me there demonstrated her
fear of too many of her fellow Chinese in one place. THE MASSES =

yikes

and stay home. So who are the people joining up in other spontaneous
marches throughout China - they really didn't think about how they

feel

about Japanese anti-Chinese behavior. They haven't thought through

what

it means when someone hurts you. I don't think that phase of
psychological analysis has become a part of Chinese culture yet.

But there would have been no protests if the Japanese government had
not white washed war crimes in the textbooks. Mao could say 'let
bygones be bygones' being the leader of the anti-Japanese resistance.
But it isn't that easy for the victims and or their families.
.

User: "JTEM"
Title: Re: Textbook war escalates as China and Korea vent their fury at Japanese rewriting of history	13 Apr 2005 04:52:09 AM

"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote

But there would have been no protests if the Japanese
government had not white washed war crimes in the
textbooks.

That's not exactly honest. Intertwined is the issue of
Japan seeking a seat on the U.N. Security Council,
a move that would greatly increase Japan's influence
in Asia, at the expense of China.
But pretending that it is all sincere on your part...
The Japanese government feels that would be a mistake.
The Japanese culture actually respects family & it's
elders in a way that western cultures sometimes (but
only rarely) pay lip services to.
In addition to this, roughly 90% of the Japanese
population practices Shintoism, either religiously
or at least culturally, and Shintoism includes an
element of ancestor worship.
In other words, given the Japanese culture, if you
teach the children that their revered elders &
ancestors brutalized China, they'll grow up
believing that brutalizing China was a good thing.
But I have a question for you, oh he that is all too
happy to suck up the official Chinese spin:
Japan is gone from China. The war is over. They
made their peace. When is China going to stop
raping Tibet?
Why should I lose any sleep over what happened
60 years ago, when the Chinese jackboot is on
the throat of Tibet?
Wouldn't you agree that, if given the choice, stopping
a crime today is more important than punishing a
criminal from 60 years ago, one that was supposedly
already served their time and was released?
.

User: "Ernest Schaal"
Title: Re: Textbook war escalates as China and Korea vent their fury atJapanese rewriting of history	12 Apr 2005 06:54:09 PM

in article 9QY6e.6787$n93.413@twister.nyc.rr.com, ggg at
goodgutgut@yahoo.com wrote on 4/13/05 8:28 AM:

Ernest Schaal wrote:

in article 1113297003.831829.41110@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com, maff at
maff91@yahoo.com wrote on 4/12/05 6:10 PM:

.atheism/msg/227db2b8a8a28d10

It was individuals peacefully protesting about Japanese government's lies
about Nanjing in text books. Of ocourse, some individuals are going to
throw
stones even in peaceful marches. What has it got to do with the
government?

Usually, at that point, the police move in to make arrests.
No stoners were arrested.

First you must find the stoners for any arrest.

If they couldn't find the stoners, it was because the Chinese police weren't
looking.

The stoners did it right in front of the police, and the police did nothing.
NHK even had television footage of the rioters enjoying themselves throwing
rocks, and the police just standing there in multiple rows, pretending not
to notice.

I agree with you they didn't think. They focus on their hurt feelings, and
don't realize that their behavior makes China look like a bunch of
hooligans, and hypocrites as well.
.

User: "ggg"
Title: Re: Textbook war escalates as China and Korea vent their fury atJapanese rewriting of history	12 Apr 2005 07:30:54 PM

Ernest Schaal wrote:

in article 9QY6e.6787$n93.413@twister.nyc.rr.com, ggg at
goodgutgut@yahoo.com wrote on 4/13/05 8:28 AM:

Ernest Schaal wrote:

in article 1113297003.831829.41110@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com, maff at
maff91@yahoo.com wrote on 4/12/05 6:10 PM:

.atheism/msg/227db2b8a8a28d10

It was individuals peacefully protesting about Japanese government's lies
about Nanjing in text books. Of ocourse, some individuals are going to
throw
stones even in peaceful marches. What has it got to do with the
government?

Usually, at that point, the police move in to make arrests.
No stoners were arrested.

First you must find the stoners for any arrest.

If they couldn't find the stoners, it was because the Chinese police weren't
looking.

The stoners did it right in front of the police, and the police did nothing.
NHK even had television footage of the rioters enjoying themselves throwing
rocks, and the police just standing there in multiple rows, pretending not
to notice.

I agree with you they didn't think. They focus on their hurt feelings, and
don't realize that their behavior makes China look like a bunch of
hooligans, and hypocrites as well.

Wait until May 4th, then the real hooligans with no social
responsibility will show up. If by hypocrites you mean the non textbook
matter of Tibet, I am against polluting either the Tibet or the textbook
matter by mixing them becausI don't see how Tibet illuminates the issue
of the Japanese invasion's effects on the Chinese popping their corks at
the times they most need not to. All "hypocrites" does as the Japanese
use it is to deflect from the matter back towards China the accuser.
Notice that there is no Korean Tibet so the exact same textbook issues
is just met with silence and then it peters out because no one is
maintaining the exchange. And sometimes it devolves by purported Korean
posters using curse words against the Japanese as a whole and that's
another way of removing the legitimate topic from consideration by
anyone who bothers to scan these groups.
.

User: "Ernest Schaal"
Title: Re: Textbook war escalates as China and Korea vent their fury atJapanese rewriting of history	12 Apr 2005 08:00:22 PM

in article 2LZ6e.6794$n93.1102@twister.nyc.rr.com, ggg at
goodgutgut@yahoo.com wrote on 4/13/05 9:30 AM:

Ernest Schaal wrote:

in article 9QY6e.6787$n93.413@twister.nyc.rr.com, ggg at
goodgutgut@yahoo.com wrote on 4/13/05 8:28 AM:

Ernest Schaal wrote:

in article 1113297003.831829.41110@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com, maff at
maff91@yahoo.com wrote on 4/12/05 6:10 PM:

.atheism/msg/227db2b8a8a28d10

It was individuals peacefully protesting about Japanese government's
lies
about Nanjing in text books. Of ocourse, some individuals are going to
throw
stones even in peaceful marches. What has it got to do with the
government?

Usually, at that point, the police move in to make arrests.
No stoners were arrested.

First you must find the stoners for any arrest.

If they couldn't find the stoners, it was because the Chinese police
weren't
looking.

The stoners did it right in front of the police, and the police did
nothing.
NHK even had television footage of the rioters enjoying themselves throwing
rocks, and the police just standing there in multiple rows, pretending not
to notice.

I agree with you they didn't think. They focus on their hurt feelings, and
don't realize that their behavior makes China look like a bunch of
hooligans, and hypocrites as well.

By hypocrites, I mean the fact that Chinese nationalist use the same type of
language the Japanese nationalists use to justify its invasion of Tibet. I
find it interesting to note that China, Korea, and Japan are all accusing
each other of rewriting history. For instance, Korea has been complaining
recently because they say China is making historical claims to what is now
North Korea.
.

User: "Ernest Schaal"
Title: Re: Textbook war escalates as China and Korea vent their fury atJapanese rewriting of history	11 Apr 2005 04:53:05 PM

in article 1113251013.398308.80670@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com,

wrote on 4/12/05 5:23 AM:

maff wrote:

Ernest Schaal wrote:

in article 1113215118.516681.106040@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com,

maff at

maff91@yahoo.com wrote on 4/11/05 7:25 PM:

Ernest Schaal wrote:

in article

1113207264.255332.246680@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com,

maff at

maff91@yahoo.com wrote on 4/11/05 5:14 PM:

Textbook war escalates as China and Korea vent their fury at

Japanese

rewriting of history
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/story.jsp?story=628297

By David McNeill in Seoul
11 April 2005

Thousands of Chinese protesters pelted the Japanese embassy in

Beijing

with missiles and shouted "Japanese pigs come out" and "stop

distorting

history" over the weekend, dragging Sino-Japanese relations to

new

low.

The protests against Tokyo's authorisation of textbooks that

many

Chinese say whitewash Japan's 15-year occupation is the latest

incident

to rock the shaky partnership between Asia's leading power and

its

rising star.

Apparently the Chinese don't realize how bad they look by

stoning

embassies and beating up people on the street.

Do you mean Chinese should kill Japanese just like the Japanese
militarists tortured and murdered Chinese in Nanjing?

Rape of Nanking

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/227db2b8a8a28d10

No, not as bad. But of course, Japan was at war with China at the

time.

Presently, China is not in a state of war with Japan. I don't

excuse

what

the Japanese did in China, or what the Chinese did/do in Tibet.

Do you really think China does look good when it stones embassies

and

beats

up people in the streets? I don't. I think that it makes the

government look

like a lawless country.

Instead, it seems to be more proof that the Olympics should not

have

been

given to them, at least until they can assure the safety of all the
participants.

Usually, at that point, the police move in to make arrests.
No stoners were arrested.

Police intervened before it became ugly.

Police also kindly provided buses to take the students back to campus:

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2005/s1342389.htm

...the watching police were broadcasting this helpful message:

"The students, you are tired, there are more people to come
to demonstrate, the students, please move on, there are buses,
the buses will send the students back to the universities."

Considering the recent riots in China at a soccer game, I wonder what kind
of fool would let them have the next Olympics.
.

User: "ggg"
Title: Re: Textbook war escalates as China and Korea vent their fury atJapanese rewriting of history	11 Apr 2005 06:33:16 PM

Ernest Schaal wrote:

in article 1113207264.255332.246680@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com, maff at
maff91@yahoo.com wrote on 4/11/05 5:14 PM:

Apparently the Chinese don't realize how bad they look by stoning embassies
and beating up people on the street.

Who did they beat up? I didn't see that footage?
I'm not sure non Japanese or those not married to a Japanese or
otherwise enamored with Japan see that the Chinese look bad instead of
the Japanese looking really bad and really scary. Because they are the
cause of this ire, this strong strong protest. I felt really bad when
over a handball, the Chinese ignored the authorities and took soccer
hooliganism to a political level but this time, this time, I get it.
There aren't any Japanese voices raised against those textbooks reported
in in the media that I've seen so far. That's so disturbing.
Especially since it's time again for Europeans to hold ceremonies
remembering what Nazi Germany did. The juxtoposition of the two
different news items in the same newscast is absurd.
.

User: "Ernest Schaal"
Title: Re: Textbook war escalates as China and Korea vent their fury atJapanese rewriting of history	11 Apr 2005 08:35:57 PM

in article 0PD6e.6708$n93.1197@twister.nyc.rr.com, ggg at
goodgutgut@yahoo.com wrote on 4/12/05 8:33 AM:

Ernest Schaal wrote:

in article 1113207264.255332.246680@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com, maff at
maff91@yahoo.com wrote on 4/11/05 5:14 PM:

Apparently the Chinese don't realize how bad they look by stoning embassies
and beating up people on the street.

Who did they beat up? I didn't see that footage?

That is because there was a blackout on the news in China.

I'm not sure non Japanese or those not married to a Japanese or
otherwise enamored with Japan see that the Chinese look bad instead of
the Japanese looking really bad and really scary. Because they are the
cause of this ire, this strong strong protest. I felt really bad when
over a handball, the Chinese ignored the authorities and took soccer
hooliganism to a political level but this time, this time, I get it.
There aren't any Japanese voices raised against those textbooks reported
in in the media that I've seen so far. That's so disturbing.
Especially since it's time again for Europeans to hold ceremonies
remembering what Nazi Germany did. The juxtoposition of the two
different news items in the same newscast is absurd.

In the States, "Free Tibet" stickers are on many cars, and the civil rights
violations of China are well known.
.

User: "ggg"
Title: Re: Textbook war escalates as China and Korea vent their fury atJapanese rewriting of history	12 Apr 2005 05:45:53 PM

Ernest Schaal wrote:

in article 0PD6e.6708$n93.1197@twister.nyc.rr.com, ggg at
goodgutgut@yahoo.com wrote on 4/12/05 8:33 AM:

Ernest Schaal wrote:

in article 1113207264.255332.246680@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com, maff at
maff91@yahoo.com wrote on 4/11/05 5:14 PM:

Apparently the Chinese don't realize how bad they look by stoning embassies
and beating up people on the street.

Who did they beat up? I didn't see that footage?

That is because there was a blackout on the news in China.

and in France as well? How far behind was China in reporting this? I
thought we knew about it from Chinese news on the first day. And the
message was this is serious because there have been mini massing of
Chinese masses already about different matters that seem to be bad signs.
.

User: "Ernest Schaal"
Title: Re: Textbook war escalates as China and Korea vent their fury atJapanese rewriting of history	12 Apr 2005 06:11:27 PM

in article BcY6e.6783$n93.4172@twister.nyc.rr.com, ggg at
goodgutgut@yahoo.com wrote on 4/13/05 7:45 AM:

Ernest Schaal wrote:

in article 0PD6e.6708$n93.1197@twister.nyc.rr.com, ggg at
goodgutgut@yahoo.com wrote on 4/12/05 8:33 AM:

Ernest Schaal wrote:

in article 1113207264.255332.246680@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com, maff at
maff91@yahoo.com wrote on 4/11/05 5:14 PM:

Apparently the Chinese don't realize how bad they look by stoning embassies
and beating up people on the street.

Who did they beat up? I didn't see that footage?

That is because there was a blackout on the news in China.

One big difference in the news coverage appears to be that the stoning has
been downplayed and the assaults simply have not been reported.
One big story in many of the world press is the censorship, where "for
safety reasons" the police tried to keep the press away from the
demonstrations on day two.
.

User: "ggg"
Title: Re: Textbook war escalates as China and Korea vent their fury atJapanese rewriting of history	12 Apr 2005 06:43:49 PM

Ernest Schaal wrote:

in article BcY6e.6783$n93.4172@twister.nyc.rr.com, ggg at
goodgutgut@yahoo.com wrote on 4/13/05 7:45 AM:

Ernest Schaal wrote:

in article 0PD6e.6708$n93.1197@twister.nyc.rr.com, ggg at
goodgutgut@yahoo.com wrote on 4/12/05 8:33 AM:

Ernest Schaal wrote:

in article 1113207264.255332.246680@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com, maff at
maff91@yahoo.com wrote on 4/11/05 5:14 PM:

Apparently the Chinese don't realize how bad they look by stoning embassies
and beating up people on the street.

Who did they beat up? I didn't see that footage?

That is because there was a blackout on the news in China.

One big difference in the news coverage appears to be that the stoning has
been downplayed and the assaults simply have not been reported.

One big story in many of the world press is the censorship, where "for
safety reasons" the police tried to keep the press away from the
demonstrations on day two.

Mainlanders getting ornery is not a pretty scene but it's authentic even
though it's making the Chinese government lose face. I'd want to know
but I don't know if I could stomach CNN. I guess it wasn't a surprise
that other demonstrations started in other cities with the news of the
first one because that's been happening in the last few months over
other matters. I've seen Chinese and Koreans instantly inflate their
necks like bullfrogs when the issue of Japanese denials comes up.
.

User: "maff"
Title: Re: Textbook war escalates as China and Korea vent their fury at Japanese rewriting of history	12 Apr 2005 04:24:19 AM

Ernest Schaal wrote:

in article 0PD6e.6708$n93.1197@twister.nyc.rr.com, ggg at
goodgutgut@yahoo.com wrote on 4/12/05 8:33 AM:

Ernest Schaal wrote:

in article 1113207264.255332.246680@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com,

maff at

maff91@yahoo.com wrote on 4/11/05 5:14 PM:

Textbook war escalates as China and Korea vent their fury at

Japanese

rewriting of history
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/story.jsp?story=628297

By David McNeill in Seoul
11 April 2005

Thousands of Chinese protesters pelted the Japanese embassy in

Beijing

with missiles and shouted "Japanese pigs come out" and "stop

distorting

history" over the weekend, dragging Sino-Japanese relations to a

new

low.

The protests against Tokyo's authorisation of textbooks that many
Chinese say whitewash Japan's 15-year occupation is the latest

incident

to rock the shaky partnership between Asia's leading power and

its

rising star.

Apparently the Chinese don't realize how bad they look by stoning

embassies

and beating up people on the street.

Who did they beat up? I didn't see that footage?

That is because there was a blackout on the news in China.

I'm not sure non Japanese or those not married to a Japanese or
otherwise enamored with Japan see that the Chinese look bad instead

the Japanese looking really bad and really scary. Because they are

the

cause of this ire, this strong strong protest. I felt really bad

when

over a handball, the Chinese ignored the authorities and took

soccer

hooliganism to a political level but this time, this time, I get

it.

There aren't any Japanese voices raised against those textbooks

reported

in in the media that I've seen so far. That's so disturbing.
Especially since it's time again for Europeans to hold ceremonies
remembering what Nazi Germany did. The juxtoposition of the two
different news items in the same newscast is absurd.

In the States, "Free Tibet" stickers are on many cars, and the civil

rights

violations of China are well known.

So you don't know much about the genocide and fleecing of the Native
Americans?
China Says U.S. Has Double Standard on Rights
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/988767ed68c61692
.

User: "Ernest Schaal"
Title: Re: Textbook war escalates as China and Korea vent their fury atJapanese rewriting of history	12 Apr 2005 04:57:04 AM

in article 1113297859.956056.28500@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, maff at
maff91@yahoo.com wrote on 4/12/05 6:24 PM:

Ernest Schaal wrote:

In the States, "Free Tibet" stickers are on many cars, and the civil
rights violations of China are well known.

So you don't know much about the genocide and fleecing of the Native
Americans?

China Says U.S. Has Double Standard on Rights
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/988767ed68c61692

So you think what we did in the 19th century justifies what you are doing
now? You sound like the Chinese twin of Kaz.
.

User: "maff"
Title: Forgotten Founders	12 Apr 2005 05:44:37 AM

Ernest Schaal wrote:

in article 1113297859.956056.28500@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, maff

maff91@yahoo.com wrote on 4/12/05 6:24 PM:

Ernest Schaal wrote:

In the States, "Free Tibet" stickers are on many cars, and the

civil

rights violations of China are well known.

So you don't know much about the genocide and fleecing of the

Native

Americans?

China Says U.S. Has Double Standard on Rights

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/988767ed68c61692

So you think what we did in the 19th century justifies what you are

doing

now? You sound like the Chinese twin of Kaz.

But it isn't just about the 19th century. It's about what U.S.
government is still doing to the Native Americans even now still
stealing billions of dollars from them.
Forgotten Founders
http://tinyurl.com/t74q
http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?q=%22Forgotten+Founders%22&start=0&scoring=d&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&lr=&num=100&hl=en&
http://tinyurl.com/t750
http://tinyurl.com/t754
http://news.google.com/news?q=%20%22Forgotten%20Founders%22&num=100&hl=en&lr=&sa=N&tab=wn
.

User: "Jim Walsh"
Title: Re: Forgotten Founders	12 Apr 2005 06:08:58 AM

On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 03:44:37 -0700, maff thought carefully and wrote:

Ernest Schaal wrote:

in article 1113297859.956056.28500@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, maff

maff91@yahoo.com wrote on 4/12/05 6:24 PM:

Ernest Schaal wrote:

......... and the civil rights violations of China are well known.

So you don't know much about the genocide and fleecing of the Native
Americans?

But it isn't just about the 19th century. It's about what U.S.
government is still doing to the Native Americans even now still
stealing billions of dollars from them.

So you think what the US is doing now to Native Americans justifies the
PRC's denial of Chinese human rights? Please show us the logic.
BTW, do you agree with this: "If the US stops mistreating the Native
Americans tomorrow then the CCP must give freedom to the Chinese the day
after".
Hope this helps.
--
Love, Jim
.

User: "maff"
Title: Re: Forgotten Founders	12 Apr 2005 03:33:29 PM

Jim Walsh wrote:

On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 03:44:37 -0700, maff thought carefully and wrote:

Ernest Schaal wrote:

in article 1113297859.956056.28500@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com,

maff

maff91@yahoo.com wrote on 4/12/05 6:24 PM:

Ernest Schaal wrote:

......... and the civil rights violations of China are well

known.

So you don't know much about the genocide and fleecing of the

Native

Americans?

But it isn't just about the 19th century. It's about what U.S.
government is still doing to the Native Americans even now still
stealing billions of dollars from them.

So you think what the US is doing now to Native Americans justifies

the

PRC's denial of Chinese human rights? Please show us the logic.

BTW, do you agree with this: "If the US stops mistreating the Native
Americans tomorrow then the CCP must give freedom to the Chinese the

day

after".

Nope. We have to right our wrongs to the Native Americans. Chinese
government and people have to right any wrongs to anyone else. It's not
up to us to tell the Chinese what to do or not to do.

Hope this helps.

It doesn't.

--
Love, Jim

User: "Jim Walsh"
Title: Re: Forgotten Founders	13 Apr 2005 04:01:16 AM

On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:33:29 -0700, maff thought carefully and wrote:

Jim Walsh wrote:

So you think what the US is doing now to Native Americans justifies the
PRC's denial of Chinese human rights? Please show us the logic.

BTW, do you agree with this: "If the US stops mistreating the Native
Americans tomorrow then the CCP must give freedom to the Chinese the
day after".

Nope.

Two questions. One answer. Plese explain.

We have to right our wrongs to the Native Americans.

Agree. Am doing and have done my share (as defined by me). What have you
done? What are you doing?

Chinese government and people have to right any wrongs to anyone else.

I don't understand that sentence.

It's not up to us to tell the Chinese what to do or not to do.

Of course not. The free Chinese are fully able to decide matters for
themselves.
It is a shame that they are oppressed by the CCP.
--
Love, Jim
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
.

User: "maff"
Title: Re: Forgotten Founders	13 Apr 2005 02:54:44 PM

Jim Walsh wrote:

On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:33:29 -0700, maff thought carefully and wrote:

Jim Walsh wrote:

So you think what the US is doing now to Native Americans

justifies the

PRC's denial of Chinese human rights? Please show us the logic.

BTW, do you agree with this: "If the US stops mistreating the

Native

Americans tomorrow then the CCP must give freedom to the Chinese

the

day after".

Nope.

Two questions. One answer. Plese explain.

We have to right our wrongs to the Native Americans.

Agree. Am doing and have done my share (as defined by me). What have

you

done? What are you doing?

It isn't upto any one individual. It's up to the majority of the USians
who have to make the restitution for those wrongs.

Chinese government and people have to right any wrongs to anyone

else.

I don't understand that sentence.

You can always try the courts.

It's not up to us to tell the Chinese what to do or not to do.

Of course not. The free Chinese are fully able to decide matters for
themselves.

It is a shame that they are oppressed by the CCP.

That's the problem for you. They don't seem buy Zen fascist
apologetics.

--
Love, Jim

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet

News==----

http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!

120,000+ Newsgroups

----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption

=----
.

User: "Ernest Schaal"
Title: Re: Forgotten Founders	13 Apr 2005 03:31:48 PM

in article 1113422084.686617.186590@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com, maff at
maff91@yahoo.com wrote on 4/14/05 4:54 AM:

That's the problem for you. They don't seem buy Zen fascist
apologetics.

"Zen fascist apologetics"? Yeap, you are definitely the Chinese twin of Kaz.
No one else could have come up with such nonsense.
.

User: "maff"
Title: Re: Forgotten Founders	14 Apr 2005 03:06:24 AM

Ernest Schaal wrote:

in article 1113422084.686617.186590@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com,

maff at

maff91@yahoo.com wrote on 4/14/05 4:54 AM:

That's the problem for you. They don't seem buy Zen fascist
apologetics.

"Zen fascist apologetics"? Yeap, you are definitely the Chinese twin

of Kaz.

No one else could have come up with such nonsense.

So why aren't you presnting the evidence to the International Crimnal
Court instead of spouting fascist apologetics?
.

User: "Ernest Schaal"
Title: Re: Forgotten Founders	14 Apr 2005 03:26:30 AM

in article 1113465984.465687.157960@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com, maff at
maff91@yahoo.com wrote on 4/14/05 5:06 PM:

Ernest Schaal wrote:

in article 1113422084.686617.186590@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com,

maff at

maff91@yahoo.com wrote on 4/14/05 4:54 AM:

That's the problem for you. They don't seem buy Zen fascist
apologetics.

"Zen fascist apologetics"? Yeap, you are definitely the Chinese twin

of Kaz.

No one else could have come up with such nonsense.

So why aren't you presnting the evidence to the International Crimnal
Court instead of spouting fascist apologetics?

You aren't making any sense. Now take your medicine and try again.
.

User: "maff"
Title: Re: Forgotten Founders	15 Apr 2005 03:05:18 AM

Ernest Schaal wrote:

in article 1113465984.465687.157960@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com,

maff at

maff91@yahoo.com wrote on 4/14/05 5:06 PM:

Ernest Schaal wrote:

in article 1113422084.686617.186590@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com,

maff at

maff91@yahoo.com wrote on 4/14/05 4:54 AM:

That's the problem for you. They don't seem buy Zen fascist
apologetics.

"Zen fascist apologetics"? Yeap, you are definitely the Chinese

twin

of Kaz.

No one else could have come up with such nonsense.

So why aren't you presnting the evidence to the International

Crimnal

Court instead of spouting fascist apologetics?

You aren't making any sense. Now take your medicine and try again.

Are you going to blow your brains out in an underground bunker just
like your fascist leader?
.

User: "Ernest Schaal"
Title: Re: Forgotten Founders	15 Apr 2005 03:54:30 AM

in article 1113552318.724313.156860@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com, maff at
maff91@yahoo.com wrote on 4/15/05 5:05 PM:

Ernest Schaal wrote:

in article 1113465984.465687.157960@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com,

maff at

maff91@yahoo.com wrote on 4/14/05 5:06 PM:

Ernest Schaal wrote:

in article 1113422084.686617.186590@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com,

maff at

maff91@yahoo.com wrote on 4/14/05 4:54 AM:

That's the problem for you. They don't seem buy Zen fascist
apologetics.

"Zen fascist apologetics"? Yeap, you are definitely the Chinese

twin

of Kaz.

No one else could have come up with such nonsense.

So why aren't you presnting the evidence to the International
Crimnal Court instead of spouting fascist apologetics?

You aren't making any sense. Now take your medicine and try again.

Are you going to blow your brains out in an underground bunker just
like your fascist leader?

What fascist leader? Do you know the definition of Fascist? Probably not,
considering how you misuse the term.
You really do need to take your medication.
.

User: "maff"
Title: Re: Textbook war escalates as China and Korea vent their fury at Japanese rewriting of history	13 Apr 2005 03:21:06 AM

Ernest Schaal wrote:

in article 1113297859.956056.28500@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, maff

maff91@yahoo.com wrote on 4/12/05 6:24 PM:

Ernest Schaal wrote:

In the States, "Free Tibet" stickers are on many cars, and the

civil

rights violations of China are well known.

So you don't know much about the genocide and fleecing of the

Native

Americans?

China Says U.S. Has Double Standard on Rights

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/988767ed68c61692

So you think what we did in the 19th century justifies what you are

doing

now? You sound like the Chinese twin of Kaz.

Forgotten Founders
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/6a0fe41017f7944a
Native Americans
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/cc3264d9e42e5ce4
.

Page 3 of 5

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