| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"J Young" |
| Date: |
12 Dec 2005 11:09:37 PM |
| Object: |
The 5 non-negotiable issues for Catholic voters |
These five current issues concern actions that are intrinsically evil and
must never be promoted by the law. Intrinsically evil actions are those
which fundamentally conflict with the moral law and can never be
deliberately performed under any circumstances. It is a serious sin to
deliberately endorse or promote any of these actions, and no candidate who
really wants to advance the common good will support any action contrary to
the non-negotiable principles involved in these issues.
1. Abortion
The Church teaches that, regarding a law permitting abortions, it is "never
licit to obey it, or to take part in a propaganda campaign in favor of such
a law, or to vote for it". Abortion is the intentional and direct killing of
an innocent human being, and therefore it is a form of homicide.
The unborn child is always an innocent party, and no law may permit the
taking of his life. Even when a child is conceived through rape or incest,
the fault is not the child's, who should not suffer death for others' sins.
2. Euthanasia
Often disguised by the name "mercy killing," euthanasia also is a form of
homicide. No person has a right to take his own life, and no one has the
right to take the life of any innocent person.
In euthanasia, the ill or elderly are killed, by action or omission, out of
a misplaced sense of compassion, but true compassion cannot include
intentionally doing something intrinsically evil to another person.
3. Embryonic Stem Cell Research
Human embryos are human beings. "Respect for the dignity of the human being
excludes all experimental manipulation or exploitation of the human embryo".
Recent scientific advances show that often medical treatments that
researchers hope to develop from experimentation on embryonic stem cells can
be developed by using adult stem cells instead. Adult stem cells can be
obtained without doing harm to the adults from whom they come. Thus there is
no valid medical argument in favor of using embryonic stem cells. And even
if there were benefits to be had from such experiments, they would not
justify destroying innocent embryonic humans.
4. Human Cloning
"Attempts . . . for obtaining a human being without any connection with
sexuality through 'twin fission,' cloning, or parthenogenesis are to be
considered contrary to the moral law, since they are in opposition to the
dignity both of human procreation and of the conjugal union".
Human cloning also involves abortion because the "rejected" or
"unsuccessful" embryonic clones are destroyed, yet each clone is a human
being.
5. Homosexual "Marriage"
True marriage is the union of one man and one woman. Legal recognition of
any other union as "marriage" undermines true marriage, and legal
recognition of homosexual unions actually does homosexual persons a disfavor
by encouraging them to persist in what is an objectively immoral
arrangement.
"When legislation in favor of the recognition of homosexual unions is
proposed for the first time in a legislative assembly, the Catholic lawmaker
has a moral duty to express his opposition clearly and publicly and to vote
against it. To vote in favor of a law so harmful to the common good is
gravely immoral".
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| User: "Frank Arthur" |
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| Title: Re: The 5 non-negotiable issues for Catholic voters |
13 Dec 2005 06:53:27 AM |
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Many well-meaning Christians argue that the United States was
founded by Christian men on Christian principles. Although well-intentioned,
such sentiment is unfounded. The men who lead the United States in its
revolution against England, who wrote the Declaration of Independence and
put together the Constitution were not Christians by any stretch of the
imagination.
Why do some Christians imagine these men are Christians? Besides a
desperate desire that it should be so, in a selective examination of their
writings, one can discover positive statements about God and/or
Christianity. However, merely believing in God does not make a person a
Christian. The Bible says that "the fool says in his heart, there is no
God." Our founding fathers were not fools. But the Bible also says "You say
you believe in God. Good. The demons also believe and tremble."
Merely believing in God is insufficient evidence for demonstrating
either Christian principles or that a person is a Christian.
Perhaps, to start, it might be beneficial to remind ourselves of
what a Christian might be: it is a person who has acknowledged his or her
sinfulness, responded in faith to the person of Jesus Christ as the only one
who can redeem him, and by so doing been given the Holy Spirit.
The early church summarized the Christian message in six points:
1. Jesus came from God.
2. You killed him.
3. He rose again on the third day.
4. He sent the Holy Spirit
5. Repent and be baptized.
6. He's coming back.
An individual who would not acknowledge this much of the Christian
message could not, by any stretch of the imagination, be called a Christian.
The founding fathers of this country did not acknowledge this message. In
fact, they denied it.
Thomas Jefferson
"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in message
news:d4SdnUwveN0UygPeRVn-gw@giganews.com...
These five current issues concern actions that are intrinsically evil and
must never be promoted by the law. Intrinsically evil actions are those
which fundamentally conflict with the moral law and can never be
deliberately performed under any circumstances. It is a serious sin to
deliberately endorse or promote any of these actions, and no candidate who
really wants to advance the common good will support any action contrary
to
the non-negotiable principles involved in these issues.
1. Abortion
The Church teaches that, regarding a law permitting abortions, it is
"never
licit to obey it, or to take part in a propaganda campaign in favor of
such
a law, or to vote for it". Abortion is the intentional and direct killing
of
an innocent human being, and therefore it is a form of homicide.
The unborn child is always an innocent party, and no law may permit the
taking of his life. Even when a child is conceived through rape or incest,
the fault is not the child's, who should not suffer death for others'
sins.
2. Euthanasia
Often disguised by the name "mercy killing," euthanasia also is a form of
homicide. No person has a right to take his own life, and no one has the
right to take the life of any innocent person.
In euthanasia, the ill or elderly are killed, by action or omission, out
of
a misplaced sense of compassion, but true compassion cannot include
intentionally doing something intrinsically evil to another person.
3. Embryonic Stem Cell Research
Human embryos are human beings. "Respect for the dignity of the human
being
excludes all experimental manipulation or exploitation of the human
embryo".
Recent scientific advances show that often medical treatments that
researchers hope to develop from experimentation on embryonic stem cells
can
be developed by using adult stem cells instead. Adult stem cells can be
obtained without doing harm to the adults from whom they come. Thus there
is
no valid medical argument in favor of using embryonic stem cells. And even
if there were benefits to be had from such experiments, they would not
justify destroying innocent embryonic humans.
4. Human Cloning
"Attempts . . . for obtaining a human being without any connection with
sexuality through 'twin fission,' cloning, or parthenogenesis are to be
considered contrary to the moral law, since they are in opposition to the
dignity both of human procreation and of the conjugal union".
Human cloning also involves abortion because the "rejected" or
"unsuccessful" embryonic clones are destroyed, yet each clone is a human
being.
5. Homosexual "Marriage"
True marriage is the union of one man and one woman. Legal recognition of
any other union as "marriage" undermines true marriage, and legal
recognition of homosexual unions actually does homosexual persons a
disfavor
by encouraging them to persist in what is an objectively immoral
arrangement.
"When legislation in favor of the recognition of homosexual unions is
proposed for the first time in a legislative assembly, the Catholic
lawmaker
has a moral duty to express his opposition clearly and publicly and to
vote
against it. To vote in favor of a law so harmful to the common good is
gravely immoral".
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: The 5 non-negotiable issues for Catholic voters |
13 Dec 2005 08:45:49 PM |
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On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 07:53:27 -0500, "Frank Arthur" <Art@Arthurian.com>
wrote:
Many well-meaning Christians argue that the United States was
founded by Christian men on Christian principles. Although well-intentioned,
:
Whao!
Hold on there just one minute Frank.
"well-meaning Christians"????
Are you able to justify that extremely suspect claim?
Or do you mean something different than I, with the adjectival phrase
"well-meaning"??
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: The 5 non-negotiable issues for Catholic voters |
14 Dec 2005 07:13:38 AM |
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On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:15:49 +1030, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<nm1vp1t1v3ig6sgq0hmbfg4tehqf3nkp9u@4ax.com> wrote:
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 07:53:27 -0500, "Frank Arthur" <Art@Arthurian.com>
wrote:
Many well-meaning Christians argue that the United States was
founded by Christian men on Christian principles. Although well-intentioned,
:
Whao!
Hold on there just one minute Frank.
"well-meaning Christians"????
An oxymoron.
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| User: "Andrealphus" |
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| Title: Re: The 5 non-negotiable issues for Catholic voters |
14 Dec 2005 03:19:49 PM |
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In News ui60q15tlmrjrkgss6v0tpsl5ueijgsi2p@4ax.com,, Attila at
prochoice@here.now, typed this:
On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:15:49 +1030, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<nm1vp1t1v3ig6sgq0hmbfg4tehqf3nkp9u@4ax.com> wrote:
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 07:53:27 -0500, "Frank Arthur"
<Art@Arthurian.com> wrote:
Many well-meaning Christians argue that the United States was
founded by Christian men on Christian principles. Although
well-intentioned,
Whao!
Hold on there just one minute Frank.
"well-meaning Christians"????
An oxymoron.
An impossibility.
--
Question with boldness even the existence of god; because if there be
one, he must more approve the homage of reason than that of blindfolded
fear. - Thomas Jefferson
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: The 5 non-negotiable issues for Catholic voters |
13 Dec 2005 07:52:56 AM |
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On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 07:53:27 -0500, "Frank Arthur" <Art@Arthurian.com>
wrote:
Many well-meaning Christians argue that the United States was
founded by Christian men on Christian principles. Although well-intentioned,
such sentiment is unfounded. The men who lead the United States in its
revolution against England, who wrote the Declaration of Independence and
put together the Constitution were not Christians by any stretch of the
imagination.
They're not well-meaning. They lie through their teeth in an effort to
turn a secular nationinto a theocracy.
Why do some Christians imagine these men are Christians? Besides a
desperate desire that it should be so, in a selective examination of their
writings, one can discover positive statements about God and/or
Christianity. However, merely believing in God does not make a person a
Christian. The Bible says that "the fool says in his heart, there is no
God." Our founding fathers were not fools. But the Bible also says "You say
you believe in God. Good. The demons also believe and tremble."
Why should anyone give a ***** what the bible says?
Especially when you assholes slander people and then dishonestly try
to hide behind it?
Merely believing in God is insufficient evidence for demonstrating
either Christian principles or that a person is a Christian.
No, moron, it's believing in Jesus as God.
In spite of lying Christians who redefine Christianity in such a way
that it excludes even themselves.
Perhaps, to start, it might be beneficial to remind ourselves of
what a Christian might be: it is a person who has acknowledged his or her
sinfulness, responded in faith to the person of Jesus Christ as the only one
who can redeem him, and by so doing been given the Holy Spirit.
Yet another Christian liar who by his own definition can't be a
Christian.
The early church summarized the Christian message in six points:
1. Jesus came from God.
2. You killed him.
Which blood libel caused misery and death for millions over the next
1900-odd years.
3. He rose again on the third day.
4. He sent the Holy Spirit
5. Repent and be baptized.
6. He's coming back.
An individual who would not acknowledge this much of the Christian
message could not, by any stretch of the imagination, be called a Christian.
The founding fathers of this country did not acknowledge this message. In
fact, they denied it.
Thomas Jefferson
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| User: "No One" |
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| Title: Re: The 5 non-negotiable issues for Catholic voters |
12 Dec 2005 11:34:04 PM |
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"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> writes:
These five current issues concern actions that are intrinsically evil and
must never be promoted by the law.
1. Abortion
2. Euthanasia
3. Embryonic Stem Cell Research
4. Human Cloning
5. Homosexual "Marriage"
This is a secular society and most of us don't give a damn what the
Catholic Church's position on any of this is, other than the thought
that, if the church wants to lobby the state to push a political
agenda, said church can pay for it out of after-tax dollars just like
everyone else.
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| User: "Dennis Kemmerer" |
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| Title: Re: The 5 non-negotiable issues for Catholic voters |
13 Dec 2005 03:23:10 PM |
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"No One" <noone@nospam.pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:m3irttwoic.fsf@nospam.pacbell.net...
"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> writes:
These five current issues concern actions that are intrinsically evil and
must never be promoted by the law.
1. Abortion
2. Euthanasia
3. Embryonic Stem Cell Research
4. Human Cloning
5. Homosexual "Marriage"
This is a secular society and most of us don't give a damn what the
Catholic Church's position on any of this is, other than the thought
that, if the church wants to lobby the state to push a political
agenda, said church can pay for it out of after-tax dollars just like
everyone else.
The Catholic Church is welcome to shove its voter recommendations up its
tax-exempt *****.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: The 5 non-negotiable issues for Catholic voters |
13 Dec 2005 04:44:32 PM |
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On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 21:23:10 GMT, "Dennis Kemmerer"
<dk@suespammers.org> wrote:
"No One" <noone@nospam.pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:m3irttwoic.fsf@nospam.pacbell.net...
"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> writes:
These five current issues concern actions that are intrinsically evil and
must never be promoted by the law.
1. Abortion
2. Euthanasia
3. Embryonic Stem Cell Research
4. Human Cloning
5. Homosexual "Marriage"
This is a secular society and most of us don't give a damn what the
Catholic Church's position on any of this is, other than the thought
that, if the church wants to lobby the state to push a political
agenda, said church can pay for it out of after-tax dollars just like
everyone else.
The Catholic Church is welcome to shove its voter recommendations up its
tax-exempt *****.
Unfortunately one of their doctrines is that their doctrines apply to
everybody. Hence their absolutely appalling campaign against condoms
even for non-Catholics in developing countries that has made AIDS
endemic in many of them. They think it's their own fault for not
obeying Catholic doctrine.
Couple that with the Vatican's blackmail of our elected
representatives who happen to be Catholic, by threatening to withhold
communion if they don't vote the Vatican line.
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| User: "No One" |
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| Title: Re: The 5 non-negotiable issues for Catholic voters |
12 Dec 2005 11:34:04 PM |
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"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> writes:
These five current issues concern actions that are intrinsically evil and
must never be promoted by the law.
1. Abortion
2. Euthanasia
3. Embryonic Stem Cell Research
4. Human Cloning
5. Homosexual "Marriage"
This is a secular society and most of us don't give a damn what the
Catholic Church's position on any of this is, other than the thought
that, if the church wants to lobby the state to push a political
agenda, said church can pay for it out of after-tax dollars just like
everyone else.
.
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| User: "Goodness Godless" |
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| Title: Re: The 5 non-negotiable issues for Catholic voters |
13 Dec 2005 07:39:31 PM |
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"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in message
news:d4SdnUwveN0UygPeRVn-gw@giganews.com...
What about birth control and wanking. Gosh you might be accused of moving
with the times Young, watch out they will be calling you a liberal soon!
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| User: "The Watch Dog" |
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| Title: Re: The 5 non-negotiable issues for Catholic voters |
13 Dec 2005 12:30:12 AM |
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6. Jesus said, "Let those who are without sin cast the first stone." Is
the governor without sin? The president? The warden?
He also said: if your enemy strikes your cheek, do not strike back, but
turn the other cheek so that he might strike that one as well.
In other words: capital punishment should be on this list. Arguably, it
should be the first one on this list - because Jesus actually SAID
something about it, whereas any direct statements he made about
euthanasia or homosexuality have gone unrecorded.
However, the Catholic Church knows that pressuring Catholic politicians
to oppose the death penalty would cause them to lose elections, so they
don't mention it. These are purely political decisions. There is no
true morality behind them.
In Catholic theology, artificial birth control is as much of a sin as
homosexuality. But the Church knows that 90% of American Catholics use
artifical birth control, so they don't instruct Catholic politicians to
oppose it. They go after the easy target of gays.Is this considered to
be a brave moral stance?
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| User: "Josef Balluch" |
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| Title: Re: The 5 non-negotiable issues for Catholic voters |
13 Dec 2005 11:29:38 AM |
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In a message sent 'round the world, J Young poured fuel on the fire with
the following:
[ snip ]
http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release_html_b1?release_id=103783
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| User: "Jenn" |
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| Title: Re: The 5 non-negotiable issues for Catholic voters |
13 Dec 2005 12:09:11 AM |
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In article <d4SdnUwveN0UygPeRVn-gw@giganews.com>,
"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote:
5. Homosexual "Marriage"
True marriage is the union of one man and one woman. Legal recognition of
any other union as "marriage" undermines true marriage, and legal
recognition of homosexual unions actually does homosexual persons a disfavor
by encouraging them to persist in what is an objectively immoral
arrangement.
This is of interest to me. Laying aside the issue of the law being
unrelated to your church's beliefs, do you believe that the present lack
of gay people's ability to marry people of the same sex prevents some
gay people from being gay?
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| User: "• Ninure Saunders" |
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| Title: Re: The 5 non-negotiable issues for Catholic voters |
13 Dec 2005 08:51:59 AM |
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In article <d4SdnUwveN0UygPeRVn-gw@giganews.com>, "J Young"
<youngopinions@aol.com> wrote:
Isn't it odd that this list contains NOTHING that Jesus says was
"non--negotiable"?
The TRUTH is is that Jesus did not say anything about the American
conservatives¹ ³pet² issues of the day...
He also said nothing about "family values² (in fact much of what he had
to say, if taken literally is distinctly anti-family.
And the TRUTH is, that when it comes to what Jesus is recorded in the
Gospels as teaching/saying/commandingm American Comservatives either
pretend that Jesus did not mean what He clearly said, ignore what He
commands, or pretend that it He didn't say it at all.
==========================================================================
Since "bible-literalist christians", American Conservatives and the like
claim that the Bible is to be taken literally, I challenge them to take
the words of Jesus literally and obey HIM!!!
Jesus said:
Matthew 19: 21 Jesus said to him, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell
what you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven;
and come, follow me."
John 14: 15 If you love me, keep my commandments.
Jesus said sell all:
Luke 14:33 In the same way, any of you who does not give up everything
he has cannot be my disciple. (NIV)
Luke 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all
that he hath, he cannot be my disciple. (KJV)
Luke 18:22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet
lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the
poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. 23 And
when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich. 24 And
when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they
that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! 25 For it is easier for a
camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the
kingdom of God. (KJV)
Luke 18:22 When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one
thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will
havetreasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." When he heard this, he
became very sad, because he was a man of great wealth. 24 Jesus looked
at him and said, "How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of
God! 25 Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a
needle
than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." 26 Those who heard
this asked, "Who then can be saved?" (NIV)
Jesus told people NOT to be gathering material riches:
Matthew:6 19 "Don't lay up treasures for yourselves on the earth, where
moth and rust consume, and where thieves break through and steal;20 but
lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust
consume, and where thieves don't break through and steal;21 for where your
treasure is, your heart will be there also.
Matthew 19:23-24 "Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto
you, That a rich
man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say
untoyou, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than
for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."
Jesus said to feed the hungry, and take care of all those in need, and to
do good to everyone, including "evil people":
Matt. 5:38 ³You have heard that it was said, ŒEye for eye, and
tooth for tooth.¹ 39 But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If
someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40
And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your
cloak as well. 41 If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two
miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the
one who wants to borrow from you.
Matt. 5:43 ³You have heard that it was said, ŒLove your
neighbor and hate your enemy.¹ 44 But I tell you: Love your enemies and
pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father
in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends
rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love
you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing
that? 47 And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more
than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as
your heavenly Father is perfect.
Matthew 6: 14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father
will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father
forgive your trespasses.
Matthew 6: "Be careful that you don't do your charitable giving before
men, to be seen by them, or else you have no reward with your Father who
is in heaven...... 3 But when you do merciful deeds, don't let your left
hand know what your right hand does, 4 so that your merciful deeds may be
in secret, then your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.
Luke 6:23 "Rejoice in that day and leap for joy, because great is your
reward in heaven. For that is how their fathers treated the prophets.
Luke 6:24 "But woe to you who are rich,
for you have already received your comfort.
Luke 6:25 Woe to you who are well fed now,
for you will go hungry.
Woe to you who laugh now,
for you will mourn and weep.
Luke 6:26 Woe to you when all men speak well of you,
for that is how their fathers treated the false prophets.
Luke 6:27 "But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do
good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those
who mistreat you. 29 If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him
the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking
your tunic. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what
belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have
them do to you.
Luke 6:32 "If you love those who love you, what credit is that
to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them. 33 And if you do good
to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners'
do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment,
what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to
be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend
to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be
great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the
ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.
Luke 6:37 "Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not
condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be
forgiven. 38 Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed
down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For
with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." (NIV)
Luke 11:41 "But rather give alms of such things as ye have."
Luke 14:12 Then Jesus said to his host, ³When you give a luncheon or
dinner, do not invite your friends, your brothers or relatives, or your
rich neighbors; if you do, they may invite you back and so you will be
repaid.
Luke 14:13 But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled,
the lame, the blind, 14 and you will be blessed. Although they cannot
repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.²
Christians who constantly claim that the Bible is to be taken literally
would be more convincing if they took the words of Him whom they call
"Lord", that is Jesus literally and actually obeyed Him!!!
"The Church confesses that she has witnessed the lawless application of
brutal force, the physical and spiritual suffering of countless innocent
people, oppression, hatred and murder, and that she has not raised her
voice on behalf of the victims and has not found ways to hasten to their
aid. She is guilty of the deaths of the weakest and most defenseless
brothers of Jesus Christ."
- Dietrich Bonhoeffer ( Ethics )
All the Commands of Jesus
http://www.geocities.com/ninure/alljesus.html
If the Bible applies to me, does it apply to you?
http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Heights/1734/bible4.html
Bible Misuses
http://www.geocities.com/ninure/bible-misuses.html
Sin and "Sodomites"
http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Heights/1734/sodomites.html
"If you truly turned yourself over to competent psychological help, they
can lead you from your misguided attempts to butt into other people's
lives using Jesus as your excuse for such rude behavior." - James Doemer
===================================================================
--
Pax Christi,
• Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
Jesus is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
http://Ninure-Saunders.tk
My Yahoo Group
http://Ninure.tk
Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.MCCchurch.org
The Bible Site - help provide free scripture
http://www.thebiblesite.org
To send e-mail, remove nohate from address
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: The 5 non-negotiable issues for Catholic voters |
13 Dec 2005 10:33:48 AM |
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J Young <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote:
These five current issues concern actions that are intrinsically evil and
must never be promoted by the law.
1-5) Tolerance for other faiths & beliefs.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: The 5 non-negotiable issues for Catholic voters |
13 Dec 2005 12:45:51 PM |
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On 13 Dec 2005 08:33:48 -0800, in alt.atheism
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in
<dnmt5c$bru$1@bolt.sonic.net>:
J Young <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote:
These five current issues concern actions that are intrinsically evil and
must never be promoted by the law.
1-5) Tolerance for other faiths & beliefs.
But so many self-described Christians these days seem to forget that the
behavior of the self-righteous Pharisees as described in the Gospels was
condemned by Jesus that I'm not surprised that this poison has found its
way into the Catholic Church as well.
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| User: "Gaia" |
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| Title: Re: The 5 non-negotiable issues for Catholic voters |
13 Dec 2005 06:16:34 AM |
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J Young wrote:
These five current issues concern actions that are intrinsically evil and
must never be promoted by the law.
1. Abortion
2. Euthanasia
3. Embryonic Stem Cell Research
4. Human Cloning
5. Homosexual "Marriage"
Would it affect your "buisness"?
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| User: "Gaia" |
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| Title: Re: The 5 non-negotiable issues for Catholic voters |
13 Dec 2005 04:22:37 PM |
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J Young wrote:
These five current issues concern actions that are intrinsically evil and
must never be promoted by the law. Intrinsically evil actions are those
which fundamentally conflict with the moral law and can never be
deliberately performed under any circumstances. It is a serious sin to
deliberately endorse or promote any of these actions, and no candidate who
really wants to advance the common good will support any action contrary to
the non-negotiable principles involved in these issues.
1. Abortion
The Church teaches that, regarding a law permitting abortions, it is "never
licit to obey it, or to take part in a propaganda campaign in favor of such
a law, or to vote for it". Abortion is the intentional and direct killing of
an innocent human being, and therefore it is a form of homicide.
The unborn child is always an innocent party, and no law may permit the
taking of his life. Even when a child is conceived through rape or incest,
the fault is not the child's, who should not suffer death for others' sins.
2. Euthanasia
Often disguised by the name "mercy killing," euthanasia also is a form of
homicide. No person has a right to take his own life, and no one has the
right to take the life of any innocent person.
In euthanasia, the ill or elderly are killed, by action or omission, out of
a misplaced sense of compassion, but true compassion cannot include
intentionally doing something intrinsically evil to another person.
3. Embryonic Stem Cell Research
Human embryos are human beings. "Respect for the dignity of the human being
excludes all experimental manipulation or exploitation of the human embryo".
Recent scientific advances show that often medical treatments that
researchers hope to develop from experimentation on embryonic stem cells can
be developed by using adult stem cells instead. Adult stem cells can be
obtained without doing harm to the adults from whom they come. Thus there is
no valid medical argument in favor of using embryonic stem cells. And even
if there were benefits to be had from such experiments, they would not
justify destroying innocent embryonic humans.
4. Human Cloning
"Attempts . . . for obtaining a human being without any connection with
sexuality through 'twin fission,' cloning, or parthenogenesis are to be
considered contrary to the moral law, since they are in opposition to the
dignity both of human procreation and of the conjugal union".
Human cloning also involves abortion because the "rejected" or
"unsuccessful" embryonic clones are destroyed, yet each clone is a human
being.
5. Homosexual "Marriage"
True marriage is the union of one man and one woman. Legal recognition of
any other union as "marriage" undermines true marriage, and legal
recognition of homosexual unions actually does homosexual persons a disfavor
by encouraging them to persist in what is an objectively immoral
arrangement.
"When legislation in favor of the recognition of homosexual unions is
proposed for the first time in a legislative assembly, the Catholic lawmaker
has a moral duty to express his opposition clearly and publicly and to vote
against it. To vote in favor of a law so harmful to the common good is
gravely immoral".
Which shop do YOU frequent, the Dunkies or Starbucks?
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| User: "Mark Sebree" |
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| Title: Re: The 5 non-negotiable issues for Catholic voters |
13 Dec 2005 08:31:54 AM |
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J Young wrote:
These five current issues concern actions that are intrinsically evil and
must never be promoted by the law. Intrinsically evil actions are those
which fundamentally conflict with the moral law and can never be
deliberately performed under any circumstances. It is a serious sin to
deliberately endorse or promote any of these actions, and no candidate who
really wants to advance the common good will support any action contrary to
the non-negotiable principles involved in these issues.
1. Abortion
The Church teaches that, regarding a law permitting abortions, it is "never
licit to obey it, or to take part in a propaganda campaign in favor of such
a law, or to vote for it". Abortion is the intentional and direct killing of
an innocent human being, and therefore it is a form of homicide.
The unborn child is always an innocent party, and no law may permit the
taking of his life. Even when a child is conceived through rape or incest,
the fault is not the child's, who should not suffer death for others' sins.
Then don't get an abortion, and leave the rest of us to make the
decision for ourselves, and let the pregnant women make their own
decision about their own pregnancies. Quite frankly, it is none of
your business, and there is no reason why you should have the right to
legislate your beliefs and make the rest of us follow them.
2. Euthanasia
Often disguised by the name "mercy killing," euthanasia also is a form of
homicide. No person has a right to take his own life, and no one has the
right to take the life of any innocent person.
In euthanasia, the ill or elderly are killed, by action or omission, out of
a misplaced sense of compassion, but true compassion cannot include
intentionally doing something intrinsically evil to another person.
It is only homicide if the law states that it is homicide. Someone
that is terminally ill with no hope of recovery should have the right
to make this decision, not you. I hope that you never get into the
position of having to live your life in excrusiating pain for the rest
of your short life, and not have the option of ending it. You may
regret this position of yours.
3. Embryonic Stem Cell Research
Human embryos are human beings. "Respect for the dignity of the human being
excludes all experimental manipulation or exploitation of the human embryo".
Recent scientific advances show that often medical treatments that
researchers hope to develop from experimentation on embryonic stem cells can
be developed by using adult stem cells instead. Adult stem cells can be
obtained without doing harm to the adults from whom they come. Thus there is
no valid medical argument in favor of using embryonic stem cells. And even
if there were benefits to be had from such experiments, they would not
justify destroying innocent embryonic humans.
First, embryos are not human beings. They have not been born yet.
Second, study of embryonic stem cells may provide treatments or cures
for a human of chronic diseases, as well as development of custom
transplant organs once the mechanism of organ growth is determines and
controllable. Again, your religion does not have the right to dictate
to everyone what they should do. It can only dictate to its followers
what they should do, and then leave everyone else alone.
4. Human Cloning
"Attempts . . . for obtaining a human being without any connection with
sexuality through 'twin fission,' cloning, or parthenogenesis are to be
considered contrary to the moral law, since they are in opposition to the
dignity both of human procreation and of the conjugal union".
Human cloning also involves abortion because the "rejected" or
"unsuccessful" embryonic clones are destroyed, yet each clone is a human
being.
Not your call. Your so-called "moral law" is simply your opinion, and
nothing else. It holds no power or sway over anyone else. This comes
under the same category as stem cell research.
5. Homosexual "Marriage"
True marriage is the union of one man and one woman.
In your opinion only. True marriage is also between two men and two
women.
Legal recognition of
any other union as "marriage" undermines true marriage,
How? I have never seen any evidence that homosexual marriage will
undermine heterosexual marriage. And how can a true marriage undermine
true marriage?
and legal
recognition of homosexual unions actually does homosexual persons a disfavor
by encouraging them to persist in what is an objectively immoral
arrangement.
No, it does not. Morals are inherently subjective, so there can never
be anything objectively immoral. And the legal recognition of
homosexual marriages is the best thing that we can do for them, for it
removes their second-class citizen status and gives them all the same
rights as any heterosexual.
After all, why should they be force to follow the tenants of a religion
that hates them so much? Especially if they have never belong to that
religion?
"When legislation in favor of the recognition of homosexual unions is
proposed for the first time in a legislative assembly, the Catholic lawmaker
has a moral duty to express his opposition clearly and publicly and to vote
against it. To vote in favor of a law so harmful to the common good is
gravely immoral".
A vote against homosexual marriage is against the common good, since it
is against equality and freedom. And the moral duty of any lawmaker is
to vote to help ALL of his or her constituants, not just the Catholic
ones. Therefore, if he or she is faced with such an obviously
unconstitutional law that discriminates against a segment of the
people, then it is his or her duty to vote against that law, or to vote
in favor of the law that lifts that discrimination.
Your religion does not have the right to force it's backwards and
oppressive and discriminatory beliefs on others. We have Freedom of
Religion in this country, and that means that religious law has no
bearing and no place in the court or in the legislature or in secular
law.
Therefore, your opinion in the matter is worthless. The Catholic
voters can vote as they wish, and the Catholic lawmakers should vote as
is best for everyone, not according to how the Catholic Church tries to
blackmail them to vote. And if those lawmakers are honest and
honorable, they will.
Mark Sebree
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| User: "Craig Chilton" |
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| Title: Re: The 5 non-negotiable issues for Catholic voters |
13 Dec 2005 02:06:35 AM |
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On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 00:09:37 -0500,
"Jon Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote:
These five current issues concern actions that are intrinsic-
ally evil and must never be promoted by the law.
Yep. In no particular order, they are:
-- Intolerance based on **trivial** matters.
-- Discrimination against people over *trivialities*.
-- Hatefulness toward ANY neighbors for no good reason.
-- Busybodyism/buttinskiness/control-freakishness
-- Mindless bigotry w/respect to people over trivial
matters, or against any aspect of society that is
**beneficial** to significant numbers of people
while being totally harmless to others.
Truly MINDLESS and hateful people (as we see in the case
of this era's loathsome RRR Cultists) actually are STUPID enough
to disparage the following, and thus cause themselves to be guilty
of all five of the above sociopathic traits:
-- Abortion...
...which is nothing but a harmless and hugely-*beneficial*
REMEDY for the unwanted medical condition of ill-timed and
unwanted pregnancy for all girls and women who *choose* it.
And who thus are able RESTORE for themselves the well-being
and full range of future opportunities that they had available
PRIOR to the ill-timed pregnancy. Only a truly hateful and ignor-
ant DOLT would seek to *deprive* that option to women, which, if
accomplished, would impose IMMENSE hardship upon no
fewer than tens of MILLIONS of women by FORCING childbirth
upon them. AGAINST their will. Resulting in the DENIAL of
their rights... their RELEGATION to second-class-citizen status...
their INVOLUNTARY SERVITUDE to mere, NON-sentient,
Stage 2, 3, and 4 reproductive-process entities which are,
in all important ways, equivalent to the Stage 1 entities that one
so *hypocritically* does NOT "defend"-- which *also* are
human, unique, alive, and comprise a stage of development
without which NO births would occur. UNwanted entities which
the WOMEN very sensibly, under their circumstances, often
regard to be parasitic. Further manifestations of that hardship
would be the DISRUPTION of their well-being, both short-term
and long-term (as in, for decades or a lifetime)... and the
DESTRUCTION of countless of their opportunities.
-- Euthanasia (mercy killing), when in line with one's wishes.
This also is called "death with dignity" when it is pro-actively
sought by a person suffering painfully from a terminal condition. And
thereby is a very compassionate option, in these cases. (Again, a
private matter that only a hatful and buttinskyish DOLT would seek
to interfere with, providing rigid safeguards against abuse were
already in place and being enforced.
-- Embryonic Stem Cell Research
The potential for HUGE medical breakthroughs to be derived
from this precludes and negates any and all vacuous and
specious whinings from doltish busybodies. Any embryos which
are NOT being purposely gestated by a pregnant woman are
as worthless, intrinsically-speaking, as are entities of*another*
stage of the reproductive process. All of which ALSO are --as
a stage -- indispensable to all births. And -- human, unique, and
living *potential* people. Which are being **electively** aborted
at the rate of more than a *quadrillion* per DAY, worldwide... while
the hypocritical whiney bigots look the other way and whistle a
tune.
-- Human Cloning
One of the most EXCITING and fascinating medical aspects of
our new century. As U.S. Senator Tom Harkin said...
"This has enormous potential for good, There should be no
limits on human knowledge, none whatever. To those like Presi-
dent Clinton who say we can't play God, I say OK, fine, you can
take your side alongside Pope Paul V who in 1616 tried to stop
Galileo, they accused Galileo of trying to play God too. [...] I don't
think cloning is demeaning to human nature, to attempt to limit
human knowledge is demeaning. It's not legitimate to try to stop
cloning. What nonsense, what utter, utter nonsense to think we
can hold up our hand and just say "stop". Cloning will continue,
the human mind will continue to inquire into it. Human cloning will
take place and it will take place in my lifetime, and I don't fear it
at all. I want to be on the side of the Galileos and those who say
the human mind has no limits, rather than trying to stop something
that's going to happen anyway."
- US Senator Tom Harkin, (D) IA
From: http://www.humancloning.org/harkin.htm
-- Same-sex marriage
An accelerating recognition of this EQUAL right of which
homosexuals can access is in progress around the world, and
just within the last week Britain demonstrated its enlightenment
in that regard.
It is hard to imagine anything more TRIVIAL that could be
opposed by PETTY and hateful people. To see the last signif-
icant example of such abject stupidity, we have to g back more
than 40 years in our memory, and look at the segregationists.
total dolts who actually believed that there were ANY possible
justification for discriminating against people based on -- of all
things!! -- something as utterly **trivial** as the color of their
skin!
And THAT is precisely as doltish as are today's RRR Cultists
when they seek to prevent the legalization of same-sex marriage.
(Which, interestingly, *already* is legal throughout the USA, despite
the recent spate of passage of so-called "DOMA" (Defense Of
Marriage Act) legislation, and anti-same-sex-marriage amendments
to state constitutions -- because there is NOTHING in the U.S.
Constitution that provides for such discrimination. And the U.S.
Constitution supercedes all other law in the USA.
Nothing could possibly be more **harmless** than legal
same-sex marriage. There is NO WAY that any opposite-sex
couple's marriage could be threatened or harmed in any way
if a same-sex couple (for example) that's been cohabiting in their
community for years finds that they can become legally married
and then does so.
AND, despite the obvious benefits to gays that are accorded
by legal marriage, there also is the matter of monogamy. Even
though millions of married partners fail at this, being married IS
an added *encouragement* to monogamy... and monogamy is
the SAFEST form of Safe Sex.
Thus, if universal recognition of the legality of same-sex
marriage were to result in even ONE person's life having been
spared from premature death via HIV/AIDS, then **that alone**
would be MORE than enough reason to make same-sex marriage
legally available to all same-sex partners who choose it.
It's the best possible combination for dedicated gay couples:
An encouragement to monogamy that can spare them from
contracting STDs -- along with all the other benefits of marriage --
and totally -- as in 100%!! -- harmless to anyone and everyone.
The sky didn't fall in 1967 when ALL bans on interracial mar-
riage were struck down. Society was ENHANCED by the end
of that absurd bigotry... JUST as it will be enhanced by the end
of the nonsensical exclusionary aspects of marriage today in
places where same-sex marriage has not yet been recognized
as legal.
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: The 5 non-negotiable issues for Catholic voters |
13 Dec 2005 03:10:20 AM |
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On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 08:06:35 GMT, Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 00:09:37 -0500,
"Jon Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote:
These five current issues concern actions that are intrinsic-
ally evil and must never be promoted by the law.
Yep. In no particular order, they are:
-- Intolerance based on **trivial** matters.
-- Discrimination against people over *trivialities*.
-- Hatefulness toward ANY neighbors for no good reason.
-- Busybodyism/buttinskiness/control-freakishness
-- Mindless bigotry w/respect to people over trivial
matters, or against any aspect of society that is
**beneficial** to significant numbers of people
while being totally harmless to others.
Truly MINDLESS and hateful people (as we see in the case
of this era's loathsome RRR Cultists) actually are STUPID enough
to disparage the following, and thus cause themselves to be guilty
of all five of the above sociopathic traits:
:
I see no mention of ritualistic cannibalism there:-
an absolutely mandatory catholic function.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: The 5 non-negotiable issues for Catholic voters |
13 Dec 2005 01:30:17 PM |
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On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 00:09:37 -0500, "J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com>
in alt.abortion with message-id <d4SdnUwveN0UygPeRVn-gw@giganews.com>
wrote:
That's actually "5 Good Reasons for Not Being Catholic."
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| User: "MarkA" |
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| Title: Re: The 1 non-negotiable issue for humanist voters |
13 Dec 2005 10:04:39 AM |
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On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 00:09:37 -0500, J Young wrote:
Atheists, humanists, and other rational thinkers have only one issue that
is "intrinsically evil", and must never be promoted by the law:
Telling other people that your morality is superior to theirs, that they
have no right to live their lives according to their own moral code, and
that you are obliged to try to force them to live according to your own
definition of "good" and "evil". If necessary, killing of infidels is
perfectly acceptable, because, as infidels, they are not fully human.
Laws should protect the rights of the weak, so they are not exploited by
the strong. One example of the strong would be, say, the Roman Catholic
Church.
--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
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| User: "LC" |
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| Title: Re: The 5 non-negotiable issues for Catholic voters |
13 Dec 2005 09:35:35 AM |
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Pope-licking Nazi "J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in message
news:d4SdnUwveN0UygPeRVn-gw@giganews.com...
These five current issues concern actions that are intrinsically evil and
must never be promoted by the law. Intrinsically evil actions are those
which fundamentally conflict with the moral law and can never be
deliberately performed under any circumstances. It is a serious sin to
deliberately endorse or promote any of these actions, and no candidate who
really wants to advance the common good will support any action contrary
to the non-negotiable principles involved in these issues.
"I ain't a Bible thumper I keep telling you."~"Jon Young", Lying Loser and
Loon.
message
"I ain't a Jesus freak. I love porn stars!God bless them."
From: (Jon Young)
Message-ID: <25e1e54f.0404240901.7eb55105@posting.google.com>
1. Abortion
"why is it that most people who are against abortion are people who you
wouldn't want to ***** in the first place?"
From: (Jon Young), obviously not getting any.
Newsgroups: alt.abortion
Subject: george carlin said it best
Date: 17 Oct 2003 19:47:28 -0700
Message-ID: <567f3dc3.0310171847.7e13d84@posting.google.com>
2. Euthanasia
"MIND YOUR BUSINESS. God doesn't want us to play God. love
Him,learn Him, live Him, but mind your own business or suffer the
wrath of God. thankyou."
From: (Jon Young)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian
Subject: sosom and gomorrah. the forgotten lesson
Date: 10 Oct 2003 20:19:10 -0700
Message-ID: <567f3dc3.0310101919.19a3c490@posting.google.com>
3. Embryonic Stem Cell Research
"Finally, science is developing new sources for their stem cell
research."
From: "J Young" <>
Newsgroups:
talk.abortion,tx.politics,alt.atheism,soc.culture.jewish,seattle.politics
Subject: Hair stem cells offer source of brain cells
Date: 28 Mar 2005 21:01:45 -0800
Message-ID: <1112072505.711460.45050@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
4. Human Cloning
Look at all these "clones" J's already created:
From: "J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com>
Newsgroups:
alt.politics.usa,alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Pedophile priests?
Date: 24 Jul 2005 18:47:30 -0700
Message-ID: <1122256050.798556.83340@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 152.163.100.9
From: "IBen Getiner" <Lappcatt@AOL.com>
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
Subject: Re: Question for those who walk their kitties
Date: 1 Jul 2005 00:01:31 -0700
Message-ID: <1120201291.507089.220460@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 152.163.100.9
From: "loose cannon" <looseaint@aol.com>
Newsgroups:
alt.auto.mercedes,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,alt.politics.usa,seattle.politics
Subject: Re: How to drive a Mercedes Benz and kill the Jews thread!
Date: 18 Jul 2005 08:49:38 -0700
Message-ID: <1121701778.785775.69640@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 152.163.100.9
5. Homosexual "Marriage"
"I am an egalitarian. I am pro-woman, pro-gay, pro-child, anti-Bush."
From: (J Young), lying. Again.
Message-ID: <9c2d0f9a.0409132028.141e055a@posting.google.com>
"does it not seem strange that so many so-called christians, jews, and
muslims, seem to spend an inordinate amount of time and energy
thinking about gay people and the things that they do in their
bedrooms? isn't it also strange that the ones most vocal in their
opposition to a gay life-style almost always inevitably turn out to be
closet cases themselves. a true person of God should be spending more
time leading a good, decent life instead of thinking[ or perhaps
fantasizing ] about what two gay men are doing in their bedrooms.
you'll notice they rarely have a problem with lesbians."
From: (Jon Young)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian
Subject: a thought to ponder
Date: 13 Oct 2003 08:12:58 -0700
Message-ID: <567f3dc3.0310130712.bf31ff9@posting.google.com>
"You seem to spend alot of time,thought,and energy thinking about and
writing about homosexuals. I wonder..........?????"
From: (Jon Young)
Subject: Re: There is no such thing as a Christian homosexual
Date: 31 Jan 2004 12:59:16 -0800
Message-ID:
LC~ Proof of "J's" schizophrenia is in his own contradictions.
"One must wonder why so many Christians like "J Young" are such
dishonest, in-your-face nasty, personal liars. A well as sanctimonious
hypocrites who pretend that this nastiness is "love of neighbour".
From: Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net>
Newsgroups:
alt.atheism,alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic,soc.culture.jewish,seattle.politics
Subject: Re: Atheists - God Love 'Em
Message-ID: <s47tb15387o5kobdh6j87pjulgflku6bko@4ax.com>
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: The 5 non-negotiable issues for Catholic voters |
14 Dec 2005 07:57:29 AM |
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What about the Ten Commandments? Is breaking them okay for Catholics?
You and moronic Catholics (and other Christians like you) are stuck on
side issues and are silent on:
- Committing adultery & pedophiles
- Murder, including capital punishment or in wars, specifically unjust
war like in Iraq.
- Stealing
- Breaking the Sabbath
....etc.
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