The Army Slays Its Own--Abuse of Injured Soldiers at Fort Sill

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Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	"Sean C"
Date:	05 Apr 2006 10:00:03 PM
Object:	The Army Slays Its Own--Abuse of Injured Soldiers at Fort Sill

Soldiers injured in Basic Training at Ft Sill are being treated worse
than convicts by an ignorant, sadistic Army rehab program at Ft Sill.
This ought to be a national disgrace, but nowadays it seems "supporting
the troops" with anything but a yellow ribbon and a kick in the groin
is downright un-American.
Malevolent Power at Fort Sill
The Army Slays Its Own
By JoAnn WYPIJEWSKI
http://counterpunch.org/jw04052006.html
"The soldier's breakdown shook the others in PTRP, and that night Pvt.
Thurman called his mother and said, "You've got to find a way to help
us." Soon after, a soldier who'd been sitting on watch at the mental
ward, whom deVarennes nicknamed Pvt. Gopher, committed his own small
act of defiance in front of Drill Sgt. Langford and was ordered to
"take a knee", meaning to genuflect. As he'd recently had knee surgery,
he told Langford that he wasn't able to do that, whereupon the drill
sergeant kicked his legs out from under him, sending him to the floor
screaming. A first sergeant on the scene ordered the others to turn
away, and just as at Abu Ghraib, told them they didn't see anything.
Earlier some of them had tried to report abuses to the medical center,
to mental health counselors, to highers-up. Now they'd been ordered to
shut up, meaning any action they might contemplate would be in direct
violation of an order."
....and the predictable response of congresswhores on both sides of the
aisle:
"As she was receiving word of these abuses, deVarennes was trying to
get someone to care. Rep. Connie Mack's office told her Richard would
have to fill out a form before it could act, and since that was
impossible, the door slammed. John McCain's office sent her a form
letter saying he'd need something in writing from Richard. John Kerry's
office never replied at all, which was the most common response she got
from members of Congress."
--Sean C
.

User: "Douglas Berry"
Title: Re: The Army Slays Its Own--Abuse of Injured Soldiers at Fort Sill	06 Apr 2006 10:39:17 AM

What's so funny about peace, love and Sean C
<redhawk@burnspammersalive.com> posting the following on Wed, 05 Apr
2006 23:00:03 -0400 iin alt.atheism?

Soldiers injured in Basic Training at Ft Sill are being treated worse
than convicts by an ignorant, sadistic Army rehab program at Ft Sill.
This ought to be a national disgrace, but nowadays it seems "supporting
the troops" with anything but a yellow ribbon and a kick in the groin
is downright un-American.

Malevolent Power at Fort Sill

The Army Slays Its Own

By JoAnn WYPIJEWSKI

http://counterpunch.org/jw04052006.html

"The soldier's breakdown shook the others in PTRP, and that night Pvt.
Thurman called his mother and said, "You've got to find a way to help
us." Soon after, a soldier who'd been sitting on watch at the mental
ward, whom deVarennes nicknamed Pvt. Gopher, committed his own small
act of defiance in front of Drill Sgt. Langford and was ordered to
"take a knee", meaning to genuflect. As he'd recently had knee surgery,
he told Langford that he wasn't able to do that, whereupon the drill
sergeant kicked his legs out from under him, sending him to the floor
screaming. A first sergeant on the scene ordered the others to turn
away, and just as at Abu Ghraib, told them they didn't see anything.
Earlier some of them had tried to report abuses to the medical center,
to mental health counselors, to highers-up. Now they'd been ordered to
shut up, meaning any action they might contemplate would be in direct
violation of an order."

*****. There are so many things wrong with this story that I
barely know where to begin.
1. Drill Sergeants are not assigned to pyschiatric units. This is for
the simple reason that troops sent to the pysch ward are there to
recover from a mental illness, not to be trained.
2. Physical contact between a NCO and a trainee as described is a
violation of the UCMJ and punishble by years of jail time and
dishonorable discharge. The myth of the abusive Drill Sergeant is just
that - a myth. There are much more effective ways of punishing and
training.
3. A soldier who had recent knee surgery would be on a medical ward.
4. Telling troops not to report abuse is an illegal order. You learn
what those are your first day in the Army.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
.

User: "Sean C"
Title: Re: The Army Slays Its Own--Abuse of Injured Soldiers at Fort Sill	06 Apr 2006 07:34:14 PM

In article <vuca32pf6lvap02u39hvm7obrglhlqjr1t@4ax.com>, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:

What's so funny about peace, love and Sean C
<redhawk@burnspammersalive.com> posting the following on Wed, 05 Apr
2006 23:00:03 -0400 iin alt.atheism?

"The soldier's breakdown shook the others in PTRP, and that night Pvt.
Thurman called his mother and said, "You've got to find a way to help
us." Soon after, a soldier who'd been sitting on watch at the mental
ward, whom deVarennes nicknamed Pvt. Gopher, committed his own small
act of defiance in front of Drill Sgt. Langford and was ordered to
"take a knee", meaning to genuflect. As he'd recently had knee surgery,
he told Langford that he wasn't able to do that, whereupon the drill
sergeant kicked his legs out from under him, sending him to the floor
screaming. A first sergeant on the scene ordered the others to turn
away, and just as at Abu Ghraib, told them they didn't see anything.
Earlier some of them had tried to report abuses to the medical center,
to mental health counselors, to highers-up. Now they'd been ordered to
shut up, meaning any action they might contemplate would be in direct
violation of an order."

Where did it say DIs were working in the psych ward? It said the guy
who was assaulted was on some kind of watch duty at the mental ward,
and that the DI had assaulted him either there or somewhere else after
he finished his duty...the article isn't clear on this. What was clear
was that the soldiers were being given a lot of extra duty like this,
some of it detrimental to their recovery, and were regularly being
fucked with by sadistic DIs.
As for the DIs, the article said they are working in the "PTRP"
program, which if you missed it stands for "Physical Training and
Rehabilitation Program." As the name, and the article, suggests, they
are putting injured soldiers through "PT" run by DIs as a means of
"rehabilitation" for their injuries, with predictable results.

2. Physical contact between a NCO and a trainee as described is a
violation of the UCMJ and punishble by years of jail time and
dishonorable discharge. The myth of the abusive Drill Sergeant is just
that - a myth. There are much more effective ways of punishing and
training.

Are you seriously suggesting that because striking a soldier is a
violation of the UCMJ that it can't have happened? Nowhere did the
article suggest that it was standard policy for DIs to beat soldiers,
but that a particularly sadistic DI got out of hand one day and
assaulted a soldier. These guys are continually subjected to the sort
of abusive or overly restrictive treatment typical of Basic Training,
though many have been in this program for over a year. They are being
made to do things that are clearly detrimental to their revovery, by
DIs who are certainly not trained physical therapists, and that this
treatment is driving some of them nuts as well as exacerbating their
injuries.

3. A soldier who had recent knee surgery would be on a medical ward.

Not necessarily. Even in my time I have seen injured soldiers returned
to duty before they have had a chance to fully recuperate. I received
my one and only article 15 in the Army for failing to show up for sick
call after I had injured my back on a jump. The reason was the meds
they gave me knocked me out and I fell asleep when I was supposed to go
to sick call. I was busted from E-4 to E-1, fined a months's pay, and
given 45 days extra duty for this, in spite of my injury. I appealed to
the battalion commander who reduced my punishment to 45 days extra
duty, and I had to spend 45 days carrying a buffing machine up 3
flights of stairs to wax and polish the barracks floors, and do this
with a back injury so severe it left me in pain to this very day. Most
severely injured guys were kept around doing CQ duty for years instead
of being medically discharged, and the part about being pressured to
have questionable surgeries by quack Army doctors looking for guinea
pigs seems true enough, as well.
So I'm the last guy you should be talking to about how the Army treats
injured soldiers. They treat injured soldiers like *****, and they have
a culture that discourages soldiers from reporting to sick call or
being given an adequate time or services to recuperate. I was shocked
they gave that guy Fentanyl (a powerful narcotic) for his pain, as in
my day they wouldn't give you anything stronger than Motrin and muscle
relaxers. The medics didn't even carry narcotics for injured soldiers
in peacetime.

4. Telling troops not to report abuse is an illegal order. You learn
what those are your first day in the Army.

The only thing I was ever told in this regard is that we had a duty to
disobey an unlawful order. They never defined what an "unlawful order"
was. While it is certainly true telling troops not to report an abuse
is an illegal order (In fact, this is the only part that was wrong with
the article that i could see), that's only how it works on paper. In
the real world, if you're in a situation like that, and you rat out a
DI for abusing someone, you can bet your hairy hole they will find some
way to ***** with you and make your life a living hell.
--Sean C
.

User: "Doc Smartass"
Title: Re: The Army Slays Its Own--Abuse of Injured Soldiers at Fort Sill	06 Apr 2006 10:23:05 PM

Sean C <redhawk@burnspammersalive.com> wrote in news:060420062034140445%
redhawk@burnspammersalive.com:

In article <vuca32pf6lvap02u39hvm7obrglhlqjr1t@4ax.com>, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:

3. A soldier who had recent knee surgery would be on a medical ward.

Not necessarily. Even in my time I have seen injured soldiers returned
to duty before they have had a chance to fully recuperate. I received
my one and only article 15 in the Army for failing to show up for sick
call after I had injured my back on a jump. The reason was the meds
they gave me knocked me out and I fell asleep when I was supposed to go
to sick call. I was busted from E-4 to E-1, fined a months's pay, and
given 45 days extra duty for this, in spite of my injury. I appealed to
the battalion commander who reduced my punishment to 45 days extra
duty, and I had to spend 45 days carrying a buffing machine up 3
flights of stairs to wax and polish the barracks floors, and do this
with a back injury so severe it left me in pain to this very day. Most
severely injured guys were kept around doing CQ duty for years instead
of being medically discharged, and the part about being pressured to
have questionable surgeries by quack Army doctors looking for guinea
pigs seems true enough, as well.

So I'm the last guy you should be talking to about how the Army treats
injured soldiers. They treat injured soldiers like *****, and they have
a culture that discourages soldiers from reporting to sick call or
being given an adequate time or services to recuperate. I was shocked
they gave that guy Fentanyl (a powerful narcotic) for his pain, as in
my day they wouldn't give you anything stronger than Motrin and muscle
relaxers. The medics didn't even carry narcotics for injured soldiers
in peacetime.

When I was in Basic 'way back in '86, I went on sick call for a badly-
ingrown toenail. After the usual hurry-up-and-wait crap at the main
clinic (where they sorted people to get them going where they needed to
go) they got me on a bus to the main hospital. My doctor was a charming
*****--Captain *****, I believe, though he could have been a Major
***** if he'd exerted himself just a bit. He grabbed my toe and
squeezed: "Does this hurt?"
I'm surprised I didn't pull the paper liner on the exam table up my *****
along with my drawers and trousers. Captain ***** told me I shouldn't
have let it get so bad. Then he pulled out the hypo, stabbed my toe in
several places and injected it with stuff to make the pain stop.
Captain ***** came back in a couple of minutes, squeezed the toe again.
I guess I didn't jump high enough this time: "Good enough."
Fucker dug the clippers under the nail and clipped it, ordering me to sit
still and once again telling me I shouldn't have let it get that way.
Wrap with gauze, pass me a "light duty for 2 days, regular duty on 3rd
day" Profile, and sent me away.
The Sergeant of the Day took a look at the Profile sheet (no walking
first day) and set me to collecting cigarette butts.
Not one of my more pleasant encounters.
--
Doc Smartass
Most truths are so naked that people feel sorry for them and cover them
up, at least a little bit.
--Edward R. Murrow
.

User: "Sean C"
Title: Re: The Army Slays Its Own--Abuse of Injured Soldiers at Fort Sill	07 Apr 2006 07:20:16 PM

In article <Xns979DE43C2A324askifyouwantit@216.77.188.18>, Doc Smartass
<gekido@astroskivviesboymail.com> wrote:

When I was in Basic 'way back in '86, I went on sick call for a badly-
ingrown toenail. After the usual hurry-up-and-wait crap at the main
clinic (where they sorted people to get them going where they needed to
go) they got me on a bus to the main hospital. My doctor was a charming
*****--Captain *****, I believe, though he could have been a Major
***** if he'd exerted himself just a bit. He grabbed my toe and
squeezed: "Does this hurt?"

I'm surprised I didn't pull the paper liner on the exam table up my *****
along with my drawers and trousers. Captain ***** told me I shouldn't
have let it get so bad. Then he pulled out the hypo, stabbed my toe in
several places and injected it with stuff to make the pain stop.

Captain ***** came back in a couple of minutes, squeezed the toe again.
I guess I didn't jump high enough this time: "Good enough."

Fucker dug the clippers under the nail and clipped it, ordering me to sit
still and once again telling me I shouldn't have let it get that way.

Wrap with gauze, pass me a "light duty for 2 days, regular duty on 3rd
day" Profile, and sent me away.

The Sergeant of the Day took a look at the Profile sheet (no walking
first day) and set me to collecting cigarette butts.

Well, you could have hopped on one leg, or walked on your hands :)
--Sean C
.

User: "Doc Smartass"
Title: Re: The Army Slays Its Own--Abuse of Injured Soldiers at Fort Sill	08 Apr 2006 09:05:58 PM

Sean C <redhawk@burnspammersalive.com> wrote in
news:070420062020168419%redhawk@burnspammersalive.com:

In article <Xns979DE43C2A324askifyouwantit@216.77.188.18>, Doc
Smartass <gekido@astroskivviesboymail.com> wrote:

When I was in Basic 'way back in '86, I went on sick call for a
badly- ingrown toenail. After the usual hurry-up-and-wait crap at the
main clinic (where they sorted people to get them going where they
needed to go) they got me on a bus to the main hospital. My doctor
was a charming *****--Captain *****, I believe, though he could
have been a Major ***** if he'd exerted himself just a bit. He
grabbed my toe and squeezed: "Does this hurt?"

I'm surprised I didn't pull the paper liner on the exam table up my
***** along with my drawers and trousers. Captain ***** told me I
shouldn't have let it get so bad. Then he pulled out the hypo,
stabbed my toe in several places and injected it with stuff to make
the pain stop.

Captain ***** came back in a couple of minutes, squeezed the toe
again. I guess I didn't jump high enough this time: "Good enough."

Fucker dug the clippers under the nail and clipped it, ordering me to
sit still and once again telling me I shouldn't have let it get that
way.

Wrap with gauze, pass me a "light duty for 2 days, regular duty on
3rd day" Profile, and sent me away.

The Sergeant of the Day took a look at the Profile sheet (no walking
first day) and set me to collecting cigarette butts.

Well, you could have hopped on one leg, or walked on your hands :)

....or do push-ups. Brings back memories.
"Front leaning rest position...MOVE! Four-count push-ups--in cadence!
One-two-three (one!) One-two-three (two!) One-two-three (three!)...you'd
better sound off, private! I ain't doin' a monologue!"
--
Doc Smartass
Most truths are so naked that people feel sorry for them and cover them
up, at least a little bit.
--Edward R. Murrow
.

User: "Douglas Berry"
Title: Re: The Army Slays Its Own--Abuse of Injured Soldiers at Fort Sill	09 Apr 2006 11:14:54 AM

What's so funny about peace, love and Doc Smartass
<gekido@astroskivviesboymail.com> posting the following on Sun, 09 Apr
2006 02:05:58 GMT iin alt.atheism?

...or do push-ups. Brings back memories.

"Front leaning rest position...MOVE! Four-count push-ups--in cadence!
One-two-three (one!) One-two-three (two!) One-two-three (three!)...you'd
better sound off, private! I ain't doin' a monologue!"

Ah, Drill Sergeant Chin..
(in thick Chinese accent)
"Men! Don't cheat your bodies! Do diamond push-ups! Belly! You too
skinny Belly! Get down!"
Yes, he called me "Belly." Best drill we had. Once after one of his
infamous diamond push-up marathons, we were stretching and getting
read to run around the battalion perimeter a few times. He looked at
me:
"Belly, what you thinking about?"
"Drill Sergeant, I was just wondering if you aren't actually a spy
from China sent to weaken America by destroy Infantry trainees."
"Belly! You blown my cover! Now I have to kill all of you with
kung-fu! No! Better idea! I run you to death!"
Guy always had a smile on his face and laughed at everything. You just
couldn't hate him. Made DS of the Year after I left.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
.

User: "Doc Smartass"
Title: Re: The Army Slays Its Own--Abuse of Injured Soldiers at Fort Sill	09 Apr 2006 04:04:29 PM

Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in
news:1cci321q0pifg1ta2539fsl285cpabfihn@4ax.com:

What's so funny about peace, love and Doc Smartass
<gekido@astroskivviesboymail.com> posting the following on Sun, 09 Apr
2006 02:05:58 GMT iin alt.atheism?

...or do push-ups. Brings back memories.

"Front leaning rest position...MOVE! Four-count push-ups--in cadence!
One-two-three (one!) One-two-three (two!) One-two-three

(three!)...you'd

better sound off, private! I ain't doin' a monologue!"

Awesome! I had a DI while I was in pre-Basic (Fitness Training Company,
set up to get the out-of-shape into shape); he was from Jamaica, with a
moderate accent. He was the only one who would teach us the marching
songs that had been banned (The Columbus cadence is the only one I
remember anything from).

Guy always had a smile on his face and laughed at everything. You just
couldn't hate him. Made DS of the Year after I left.

The assistant DI in Basic was like that. One Sunday, while we were
cleaning the barracks and screwing around, he came out of his office to
find one Private Key asleep between two sets of lockers. He got a grin on
his face, snuck over to one of the 'cruits and asked for his shaving
cream.
Made a big damn pile of it on Key's head without waking him up.
Quietly went back to his office.
*several seconds go by*
"PRIVATE KEY! GET IN HERE!"
We wake the boy up and he goes running to the office--without spilling
the shaving cream.
*quiet for a few more seconds*
"Private...what the HELL is that on your head?"
--
Doc Smartass
Most truths are so naked that people feel sorry for them and cover them
up, at least a little bit.
--Edward R. Murrow
.

User: "Sean C"
Title: Re: The Army Slays Its Own--Abuse of Injured Soldiers at Fort Sill	10 Apr 2006 02:04:04 AM

In article <Xns97A0A4192AD2Baskifyouwantit@216.77.188.18>, Doc Smartass
<gekido@astroskivviesboymail.com> wrote:

The assistant DI in Basic was like that. One Sunday, while we were
cleaning the barracks and screwing around, he came out of his office to
find one Private Key asleep between two sets of lockers. He got a grin on
his face, snuck over to one of the 'cruits and asked for his shaving
cream.

Made a big damn pile of it on Key's head without waking him up.

Quietly went back to his office.

*several seconds go by*

"PRIVATE KEY! GET IN HERE!"

We wake the boy up and he goes running to the office--without spilling
the shaving cream.

*quiet for a few more seconds*

"Private...what the HELL is that on your head?"

LOL. There was some pretty funny stuff in Basic, that's for sure.
It seems in every training company there was some poor, doofy-looking
sap who ended up being the designated "ET," since the movie had just
come out around then.
We had this off-the-wall DI who would go around any time we were in
formation and look for anyone moving, and then he would hobble over,
bent over at the waist and with his palm held sideways in the recruit's
face say "Whaddya moving around FOOOOR?" With exaggerated emphasis on
the "For."
So one day we're standing in the chowline and he comes up to our ET,
gets up in his face, palm extended and says "Whaddya moving around
FOOOR?"
"Flashbacks, Sergeant."
"Flashbacks? Well where you flashbacking to, ET, your home planet?"
We had this other sergeant from Panama named Giavelli, who always had
us in stitches with his mangled English: "I'm gonna keekjoo *****, joo
god-dang cheetbirds" (I'm gonnna kick your *****, you goddamned
shitbirds). "Joo may not know dees, but I em a professional keeler."
The guy was a riot. We even wrote a song about him.
The whole thing was such a comic opera at times you forgot they were
training you to kill people.
--Sean C
.

User: "Doc Smartass"
Title: Re: The Army Slays Its Own--Abuse of Injured Soldiers at Fort Sill	12 Apr 2006 09:39:20 PM

Sean C <redhawk@burnspammersalive.com> wrote in
news:100420060304040328%redhawk@burnspammersalive.com:

In article <Xns97A0A4192AD2Baskifyouwantit@216.77.188.18>, Doc
Smartass <gekido@astroskivviesboymail.com> wrote:

The assistant DI in Basic was like that. One Sunday, while we were
cleaning the barracks and screwing around, he came out of his office
to find one Private Key asleep between two sets of lockers. He got a
grin on his face, snuck over to one of the 'cruits and asked for his
shaving cream.

Made a big damn pile of it on Key's head without waking him up.

Quietly went back to his office.

*several seconds go by*

"PRIVATE KEY! GET IN HERE!"

We wake the boy up and he goes running to the office--without
spilling the shaving cream.

*quiet for a few more seconds*

"Private...what the HELL is that on your head?"

LOL. There was some pretty funny stuff in Basic, that's for sure.

It seems in every training company there was some poor, doofy-looking
sap who ended up being the designated "ET," since the movie had just
come out around then.

We had this off-the-wall DI who would go around any time we were in
formation and look for anyone moving, and then he would hobble over,
bent over at the waist and with his palm held sideways in the
recruit's face say "Whaddya moving around FOOOOR?" With exaggerated
emphasis on the "For."

So one day we're standing in the chowline and he comes up to our ET,
gets up in his face, palm extended and says "Whaddya moving around
FOOOR?"

"Flashbacks, Sergeant."

"Flashbacks? Well where you flashbacking to, ET, your home planet?"

We had this other sergeant from Panama named Giavelli, who always had
us in stitches with his mangled English: "I'm gonna keekjoo *****, joo
god-dang cheetbirds" (I'm gonnna kick your *****, you goddamned
shitbirds). "Joo may not know dees, but I em a professional keeler."
The guy was a riot. We even wrote a song about him.

The whole thing was such a comic opera at times you forgot they were
training you to kill people.

One of the first things we were told: "Your experience here will be
nothing like the movie 'Stripes'!" They were only partly right. There
were no hot chick MP's, no radically-modified RV's, and no Uncle Hulka.
But those damn pushups Bill Murray was doing in a montage...that was the
same. One of the funniest things I remember was during the 3-4 hours'
worth of "intensive" bayonet training, where our battle cry was:
Kill! Destroy! Blood makes the grass grow!
--
Doc Smartass
Most truths are so naked that people feel sorry for them and cover them
up, at least a little bit.
--Edward R. Murrow
.

User: "Sean C"
Title: Re: The Army Slays Its Own--Abuse of Injured Soldiers at Fort Sill	12 Apr 2006 10:51:32 PM

In article <Xns97A3DCDE5E443askifyouwantit@216.77.188.18>, Doc Smartass
<gekido@astroskivviesboymail.com> wrote:

Bayonet training was really ridiculous.
"What is the spirit of the bayonet?"
"TO KILL, SERGEANT!"
What they failed to mentioned is that the people getting killed in a
bayonet charge against assault rifles and machine guns was gonna be
you.
You must be familiar with this chant:
"We're gonna rape, kill, pillage and burn, we're gonna rape kill
pillage and burn...EAT THE BABIES!"
--Sean C
.

User: "Doc Smartass"
Title: Re: The Army Slays Its Own--Abuse of Injured Soldiers at Fort Sill	13 Apr 2006 08:41:06 PM

Sean C <redhawk@burnspammersalive.com> wrote in
news:120420062351321481%redhawk@burnspammersalive.com:

In article <Xns97A3DCDE5E443askifyouwantit@216.77.188.18>, Doc
Smartass <gekido@astroskivviesboymail.com> wrote:

One of the first things we were told: "Your experience here will be
nothing like the movie 'Stripes'!" They were only partly right. There
were no hot chick MP's, no radically-modified RV's, and no Uncle
Hulka. But those damn pushups Bill Murray was doing in a
montage...that was the same. One of the funniest things I remember
was during the 3-4 hours' worth of "intensive" bayonet training,
where our battle cry was:

Kill! Destroy! Blood makes the grass grow!

Bayonet training was really ridiculous.

"What is the spirit of the bayonet?"
"TO KILL, SERGEANT!"

I remember this one.

What they failed to mentioned is that the people getting killed in a
bayonet charge against assault rifles and machine guns was gonna be
you.

You must be familiar with this chant:

"We're gonna rape, kill, pillage and burn, we're gonna rape kill
pillage and burn...EAT THE BABIES!"

We never did this one. Pity ;)
--
Doc Smartass
Most truths are so naked that people feel sorry for them and cover them
up, at least a little bit.
--Edward R. Murrow
.

User: "stoney"
Title: Re: The Army Slays Its Own--Abuse of Injured Soldiers at Fort Sill	09 Apr 2006 06:33:48 PM

On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 16:14:54 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in alt.atheism

What's so funny about peace, love and Doc Smartass
<gekido@astroskivviesboymail.com> posting the following on Sun, 09 Apr
2006 02:05:58 GMT iin alt.atheism?

What's a diamond pushup?
[]
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.

User: "Douglas Berry"
Title: Re: The Army Slays Its Own--Abuse of Injured Soldiers at Fort Sill	09 Apr 2006 08:03:41 PM

What's so funny about peace, love and stoney <stoney@the.net> posting
the following on Sun, 09 Apr 2006 16:33:48 -0700 iin alt.atheism?

On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 16:14:54 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in alt.atheism

What's so funny about peace, love and Doc Smartass
<gekido@astroskivviesboymail.com> posting the following on Sun, 09 Apr
2006 02:05:58 GMT iin alt.atheism?

What's a diamond pushup?

hold your hands out on front of you, fingers spread. Now touch the
tips of your forefingers and thumbs. The space between your hands is a
rough diamond. You do push ups with your hands in this position, and
it gives you a much harsher workout. They hurt like hell, but holy
*****, the improvement in our scores on the regular push ups were
amazing. After Chin showed up halfway through OSUT (Infantry basic
training) I went from 42 push ups in two minutes to 68 in about two
weeks.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
.

User: "Walter Bushell"
Title: Re: The Army Slays Its Own--Abuse of Injured Soldiers at Fort Sill	14 Apr 2006 02:11:17 PM

In article <mhbj32tm7qv5a8ld9uq31jtbi4esvgcok0@4ax.com>,
Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:

After Chin showed up halfway through OSUT (Infantry basic
training) I went from 42 push ups in two minutes to 68 in about two
weeks.

Even I can do 68 pushups in two weeks.
--
"The power of the Executive to cast a man into prison without formulating any
charge known to the law, and particularly to deny him the judgement of his
peers, is in the highest degree odious and is the foundation of all totali-
tarian government whether Nazi or Communist." -- W. Churchill, Nov 21, 1943
.

User: "Sean C"
Title: Re: The Army Slays Its Own--Abuse of Injured Soldiers at Fort Sill	14 Apr 2006 10:04:49 PM

In article <proto-2367C6.15111714042006@reader1.panix.com>, Walter
Bushell <proto@panix.com> wrote:

In article <mhbj32tm7qv5a8ld9uq31jtbi4esvgcok0@4ax.com>,
Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:

After Chin showed up halfway through OSUT (Infantry basic
training) I went from 42 push ups in two minutes to 68 in about two
weeks.

Even I can do 68 pushups in two weeks.

Push-ups? My belly would reach the floor a full minute before my chin
did. Getting old sucks.
--Sean C
.

User: "stoney"
Title: Re: The Army Slays Its Own--Abuse of Injured Soldiers at Fort Sill	15 Apr 2006 08:42:56 PM

On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 23:04:49 -0400, Sean C
<redhawk@burnspammersalive.com> wrote in alt.atheism

In article <proto-2367C6.15111714042006@reader1.panix.com>, Walter
Bushell <proto@panix.com> wrote:

In article <mhbj32tm7qv5a8ld9uq31jtbi4esvgcok0@4ax.com>,
Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:

After Chin showed up halfway through OSUT (Infantry basic
training) I went from 42 push ups in two minutes to 68 in about two
weeks.

Even I can do 68 pushups in two weeks.

Push-ups? My belly would reach the floor a full minute before my chin
did. Getting old sucks.

Yeah, but it beats the alternative.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.

User: "Doc Smartass"
Title: Re: The Army Slays Its Own--Abuse of Injured Soldiers at Fort Sill	14 Apr 2006 06:01:12 PM

Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> wrote in news:proto-2367C6.15111714042006
@reader1.panix.com:

In article <mhbj32tm7qv5a8ld9uq31jtbi4esvgcok0@4ax.com>,
Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:

After Chin showed up halfway through OSUT (Infantry basic
training) I went from 42 push ups in two minutes to 68 in about two
weeks.

Even I can do 68 pushups in two weeks.

It takes me about a week to get in position.
--
Doc Smartass
Most truths are so naked that people feel sorry for them and cover them up,
at least a little bit.
--Edward R. Murrow
.

User: "stoney"
Title: Re: The Army Slays Its Own--Abuse of Injured Soldiers at Fort Sill	12 Apr 2006 12:16:15 PM

On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 01:03:41 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in alt.atheism

What's so funny about peace, love and stoney <stoney@the.net> posting
the following on Sun, 09 Apr 2006 16:33:48 -0700 iin alt.atheism?

On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 16:14:54 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in alt.atheism

What's so funny about peace, love and Doc Smartass
<gekido@astroskivviesboymail.com> posting the following on Sun, 09 Apr
2006 02:05:58 GMT iin alt.atheism?

What's a diamond pushup?

Whew. Thank you for the reply.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.

User: "Mark K. Bilbo"
Title: Re: The Army Slays Its Own--Abuse of Injured Soldiers at Fort Sill	13 Apr 2006 11:43:31 AM

Previously, on alt.atheism, Douglas Berry in episode
<mhbj32tm7qv5a8ld9uq31jtbi4esvgcok0@4ax.com>...

What's so funny about peace, love and stoney <stoney@the.net> posting the
following on Sun, 09 Apr 2006 16:33:48 -0700 iin alt.atheism?

On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 16:14:54 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in alt.atheism

What's so funny about peace, love and Doc Smartass
<gekido@astroskivviesboymail.com> posting the following on Sun, 09 Apr
2006 02:05:58 GMT iin alt.atheism?

...or do push-ups. Brings back memories.

"Front leaning rest position...MOVE! Four-count push-ups--in cadence!
One-two-three (one!) One-two-three (two!) One-two-three
(three!)...you'd better sound off, private! I ain't doin' a monologue!"

What's a diamond pushup?

OUCH!!!!!!
I can't read any further until I submerge myself in Icy Hot...

and it gives
you a much harsher workout. They hurt like hell, but holy *****, the
improvement in our scores on the regular push ups were amazing. After
Chin showed up halfway through OSUT (Infantry basic training) I went from
42 push ups in two minutes to 68 in about two weeks.

--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"Corps chief admits to 'design failure'"
(Took them long enough)
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J3EF62DEC
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
.

User: "stoney"
Title: Re: The Army Slays Its Own--Abuse of Injured Soldiers at Fort Sill	14 Apr 2006 09:54:44 AM

On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 11:43:31 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in alt.atheism

Previously, on alt.atheism, Douglas Berry in episode
<mhbj32tm7qv5a8ld9uq31jtbi4esvgcok0@4ax.com>...

What's so funny about peace, love and stoney <stoney@the.net> posting the
following on Sun, 09 Apr 2006 16:33:48 -0700 iin alt.atheism?

On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 16:14:54 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in alt.atheism

What's so funny about peace, love and Doc Smartass
<gekido@astroskivviesboymail.com> posting the following on Sun, 09 Apr
2006 02:05:58 GMT iin alt.atheism?

...or do push-ups. Brings back memories.

"Front leaning rest position...MOVE! Four-count push-ups--in cadence!
One-two-three (one!) One-two-three (two!) One-two-three
(three!)...you'd better sound off, private! I ain't doin' a monologue!"

What's a diamond pushup?

OUCH!!!!!!

I can't read any further until I submerge myself in Icy Hot...

The Governator?
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.

User: "Mark K. Bilbo"
Title: Re: The Army Slays Its Own--Abuse of Injured Soldiers at Fort Sill	14 Apr 2006 11:35:33 AM

Previously, on alt.atheism, stoney in episode
<3tdv3214mi2qp0r0at437gc1be378anava@4ax.com>...

On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 11:43:31 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in alt.atheism

Previously, on alt.atheism, Douglas Berry in episode
<mhbj32tm7qv5a8ld9uq31jtbi4esvgcok0@4ax.com>...

What's so funny about peace, love and stoney <stoney@the.net> posting
the following on Sun, 09 Apr 2006 16:33:48 -0700 iin alt.atheism?

On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 16:14:54 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in alt.atheism

What's so funny about peace, love and Doc Smartass
<gekido@astroskivviesboymail.com> posting the following on Sun, 09 Apr
2006 02:05:58 GMT iin alt.atheism?

...or do push-ups. Brings back memories.

"Front leaning rest position...MOVE! Four-count push-ups--in cadence!
One-two-three (one!) One-two-three (two!) One-two-three
(three!)...you'd better sound off, private! I ain't doin' a
monologue!"

What's a diamond pushup?

OUCH!!!!!!

I can't read any further until I submerge myself in Icy Hot...

The Governator?

Submerge myself in Arnold?
Well, if you insist...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"Corps chief admits to 'design failure'"
(Took them long enough)
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J3EF62DEC
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
.

User: "Tapio Erola"
Title: Re: The Army Slays Its Own--Abuse of Injured Soldiers at Fort Sill	15 Apr 2006 06:55:15 AM

"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> writes:

Previously, on alt.atheism, stoney in episode
<3tdv3214mi2qp0r0at437gc1be378anava@4ax.com>...

On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 11:43:31 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in alt.atheism

Previously, on alt.atheism, Douglas Berry in episode
<mhbj32tm7qv5a8ld9uq31jtbi4esvgcok0@4ax.com>...

What's so funny about peace, love and stoney <stoney@the.net> posting
the following on Sun, 09 Apr 2006 16:33:48 -0700 iin alt.atheism?

On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 16:14:54 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in alt.atheism

What's a diamond pushup?

OUCH!!!!!!

I can't read any further until I submerge myself in Icy Hot...

The Governator?

Submerge myself in Arnold?

Well, if you insist...

Okay. Brain checked at door? Favourite mildly alcoholic bevarage and
snacks available? AV equipment online? Disbelief firmly suspended?
Now you're ready to watch _Commando_, _Eraser_ and _True Lies_.
--
Tapio Erola
"Being broke is a temporary situation. Being poor is a state of mind."
--Mike Todd
.

User: "Douglas Berry"
Title: Re: The Army Slays Its Own--Abuse of Injured Soldiers at Fort Sill	15 Apr 2006 12:15:16 PM

What's so funny about peace, love and Tapio Erola
<txr@localhost.localdomain> posting the following on 15 Apr 2006
14:55:15 +0300 iin alt.atheism?

Hey, True Lies was at least funny at points. And had Jamie Lee Curtis
doing a striptease.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
.

User: "stoney"
Title: Re: The Army Slays Its Own--Abuse of Injured Soldiers at Fort Sill	15 Apr 2006 08:42:12 PM

On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 11:35:33 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in alt.atheism

Previously, on alt.atheism, stoney in episode
<3tdv3214mi2qp0r0at437gc1be378anava@4ax.com>...

On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 11:43:31 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in alt.atheism

Previously, on alt.atheism, Douglas Berry in episode
<mhbj32tm7qv5a8ld9uq31jtbi4esvgcok0@4ax.com>...

What's so funny about peace, love and stoney <stoney@the.net> posting
the following on Sun, 09 Apr 2006 16:33:48 -0700 iin alt.atheism?

On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 16:14:54 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in alt.atheism

What's so funny about peace, love and Doc Smartass
<gekido@astroskivviesboymail.com> posting the following on Sun, 09 Apr
2006 02:05:58 GMT iin alt.atheism?

...or do push-ups. Brings back memories.

"Front leaning rest position...MOVE! Four-count push-ups--in cadence!
One-two-three (one!) One-two-three (two!) One-two-three
(three!)...you'd better sound off, private! I ain't doin' a
monologue!"

What's a diamond pushup?

OUCH!!!!!!

I can't read any further until I submerge myself in Icy Hot...

The Governator?

Submerge myself in Arnold?

Well, if you insist...

It was just a question.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.

User: "Mark K. Bilbo"
Title: Re: The Army Slays Its Own--Abuse of Injured Soldiers at Fort Sill	15 Apr 2006 09:31:02 PM

Previously, on alt.atheism, stoney in episode
<378342pjrv2a4tq1qf7j0hogbh5kq0d7ee@4ax.com>...

On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 11:35:33 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in alt.atheism

Previously, on alt.atheism, stoney in episode
<3tdv3214mi2qp0r0at437gc1be378anava@4ax.com>...

On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 11:43:31 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in alt.atheism

Previously, on alt.atheism, Douglas Berry in episode
<mhbj32tm7qv5a8ld9uq31jtbi4esvgcok0@4ax.com>...

What's so funny about peace, love and stoney <stoney@the.net> posting
the following on Sun, 09 Apr 2006 16:33:48 -0700 iin alt.atheism?

On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 16:14:54 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in alt.atheism

What's so funny about peace, love and Doc Smartass
<gekido@astroskivviesboymail.com> posting the following on Sun, 09
Apr 2006 02:05:58 GMT iin alt.atheism?

...or do push-ups. Brings back memories.

"Front leaning rest position...MOVE! Four-count push-ups--in
cadence! One-two-three (one!) One-two-three (two!) One-two-three
(three!)...you'd better sound off, private! I ain't doin' a
monologue!"

What's a diamond pushup?

OUCH!!!!!!

I can't read any further until I submerge myself in Icy Hot...

The Governator?

Submerge myself in Arnold?

Well, if you insist...

It was just a question.

Too late...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"Corps chief admits to 'design failure'"
(Took them long enough)
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J3EF62DEC
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
.

User: "stoney"
Title: Re: The Army Slays Its Own--Abuse of Injured Soldiers at Fort Sill	17 Apr 2006 11:19:36 AM

On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 21:31:02 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in alt.atheism

Previously, on alt.atheism, stoney in episode
<378342pjrv2a4tq1qf7j0hogbh5kq0d7ee@4ax.com>...

[]

"Front leaning rest position...MOVE! Four-count push-ups--in
cadence! One-two-three (one!) One-two-three (two!) One-two-three
(three!)...you'd better sound off, private! I ain't doin' a
monologue!"

What's a diamond pushup?

OUCH!!!!!!

I can't read any further until I submerge myself in Icy Hot...

The Governator?

Submerge myself in Arnold?

Well, if you insist...

It was just a question.

Too late...

Bon appetit.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.

User: "Douglas Berry"
Title: Re: The Army Slays Its Own--Abuse of Injured Soldiers at Fort Sill	13 Apr 2006 07:21:19 PM

What's so funny about peace, love and "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> posting the following on Thu, 13 Apr 2006
11:43:31 -0500 iin alt.atheism?

Previously, on alt.atheism, Douglas Berry in episode
<mhbj32tm7qv5a8ld9uq31jtbi4esvgcok0@4ax.com>...

What's a diamond pushup?

OUCH!!!!!!

I can't read any further until I submerge myself in Icy Hot...

My record was 48 in two minutes from this position. At the final PT
test in OSUT the Sergeant grading the puish-up section stopped me
after 90 seconds saying "Get up, Private, you've scored better than
the max." I think I was on my 73rd at that point.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
.

User: "Mark K. Bilbo"
Title: Re: The Army Slays Its Own--Abuse of Injured Soldiers at Fort Sill	13 Apr 2006 10:37:12 PM

Previously, on alt.atheism, Douglas Berry in episode
<qhqt32t541le0lrhjun1v9ad5gu03c4a28@4ax.com>...

What's so funny about peace, love and "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> posting the following on Thu, 13 Apr 2006
11:43:31 -0500 iin alt.atheism?

Previously, on alt.atheism, Douglas Berry in episode
<mhbj32tm7qv5a8ld9uq31jtbi4esvgcok0@4ax.com>...

What's a diamond pushup?

OUCH!!!!!!

I can't read any further until I submerge myself in Icy Hot...

I don't want to think about it. I am *so out of shape right now...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"Corps chief admits to 'design failure'"
(Took them long enough)
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J3EF62DEC
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
.

User: "Douglas Berry"
Title: Re: The Army Slays Its Own--Abuse of Injured Soldiers at Fort Sill	14 Apr 2006 07:44:14 AM

What's so funny about peace, love and "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> posting the following on Thu, 13 Apr 2006
22:37:12 -0500 iin alt.atheism?

I don't want to think about it. I am *so out of shape right now...

Yeah, that was a long time ago for me too. My new driving gig is
causing me to realize I'm hitting 40 this summer. I have to lift gates
off the side of the bed, and oy, is my back reminding me that I
haven't done that in a while.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
.

User: "Mark K. Bilbo"
Title: Re: The Army Slays Its Own--Abuse of Injured Soldiers at Fort Sill	14 Apr 2006 08:18:52 AM

Previously, on alt.atheism, Douglas Berry in episode
<a66v325fg8mf6obtdee5g4da871c8pmo68@4ax.com>...

What's so funny about peace, love and "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> posting the following on Thu, 13 Apr 2006
22:37:12 -0500 iin alt.atheism?

I don't want to think about it. I am *so out of shape right now...

Well, as one who has to look *back to see 40, I don't wanna hear it!
<grumble> <mutter>
Where're my goldanit glasses????
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"Corps chief admits to 'design failure'"
(Took them long enough)
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J3EF62DEC
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
.

Page 1 of 2

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