| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
18 May 2006 10:35:02 PM |
| Object: |
The Bible vs The Disobedient. |
John 15: 9-11.
The Vine And The Branches.
"As the Father loves me, so I also love you. Remain in my love. If
you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have
kept my Father's commandments and remain in his love."
"I have told you this so that my joy might be in you and your joy might
be complete."
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| User: "Josef Balluch" |
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| Title: Re: The Bible vs The Disobedient. |
19 May 2006 08:56:22 AM |
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In a message sent 'round the world, poured fuel on
the fire with the following:
[ snip ]
http://tinyurl.com/jjelt
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: The Bible vs The Disobedient. |
18 May 2006 11:07:38 PM |
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Previously, on alt.atheism, in episode
<1148009702.875704.177200@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>...
The Bible vs The Disobedient
That would be you who breaks newsgroup rules and Usenet conventions...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection." [Jarvis DeBerry]
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
.
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| User: "Olrik" |
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| Title: Re: The Bible vs The Disobedient. |
19 May 2006 12:33:49 AM |
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Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
Previously, on alt.atheism, in episode
<1148009702.875704.177200@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>...
The Bible vs The Disobedient
That would be you who breaks newsgroup rules and Usenet conventions...
The marvelous thing about xians is that they get a free pass at
everything. They can murder, lie, deceive at will, then they go to
"confession", recite a few prayers, and start all over again. They're
amoral.
Olrik
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection." [Jarvis DeBerry]
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
.
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| User: "Greywolf" |
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| Title: Re: The Bible vs The Disobedient. |
19 May 2006 05:21:44 AM |
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"Olrik" <olrik666@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1148016829.389967.157460@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
Previously, on alt.atheism, in episode
<1148009702.875704.177200@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>...
The Bible vs The Disobedient
That would be you who breaks newsgroup rules and Usenet conventions...
The marvelous thing about xians is that they get a free pass at
everything. They can murder, lie, deceive at will, then they go to
"confession", recite a few prayers, and start all over again. They're
amoral.
Olrik
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection." [Jarvis DeBerry]
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
Boy did *you* ever hit the nail on the head. I have made up a 'club' in my
head. I call it the 'Phony-Baloney Christian Club'. And it is made up of
virtually every 'Christian' I've been in contact with recently. And you
could bet the house that if asked, *none* of them would admit to being
deceitful, dishonest, despicable, immoral and unethical. No, not them! It
seems that they are not only deluded when it comes to their religion, but
are deluded when it comes to themselves, as well. Pretty pathetic lot, the
'Christians' I have had the misfortune to deal with in recent days. Phooey!
Greywolf
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: The Bible vs The Disobedient. |
19 May 2006 07:39:30 PM |
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On Fri, 19 May 2006 05:21:44 -0500, "Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <126r71q5q904182@corp.supernews.com>
"Olrik" <olrik666@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1148016829.389967.157460@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
Previously, on alt.atheism, in episode
<1148009702.875704.177200@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>...
The Bible vs The Disobedient
That would be you who breaks newsgroup rules and Usenet conventions...
The marvelous thing about xians is that they get a free pass at
everything. They can murder, lie, deceive at will, then they go to
"confession", recite a few prayers, and start all over again. They're
amoral.
Olrik
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection." [Jarvis DeBerry]
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
Boy did *you* ever hit the nail on the head. I have made up a 'club' in my
head. I call it the 'Phony-Baloney Christian Club'. And it is made up of
virtually every 'Christian' I've been in contact with recently. And you
could bet the house that if asked, *none* of them would admit to being
deceitful, dishonest, despicable, immoral and unethical. No, not them! It
seems that they are not only deluded when it comes to their religion, but
are deluded when it comes to themselves, as well. Pretty pathetic lot, the
'Christians' I have had the misfortune to deal with in recent days. Phooey!
Greywolf
As I have outlined before, it's all an expected result of being
infected with a religious mind-virus, of whatever strain.
The existence and replication of the virus relies on the host allow it
to stay resident.
If it allowed any form of reality, or a lack of self-deception to
creep into the creep's mind, then it would be allowing itself host to
be innoculated against it.
It therefore manipulates the host's mind to the point where it can
survive and grow to the point of sending out strong spores to infect
other minds.
A meme that is successful at this will out-compete one that allows
host recognition of the neccessary internal self-deception.
--
Michael Gray.
Founding Member and Doorman,
Earthquack's 666 Club.
EAC Trainee Inquisitor of the month (2nd runner up: April)
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
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| User: "Dale" |
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| Title: Re: The Bible vs The Disobedient. |
19 May 2006 10:27:44 AM |
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Olrik wrote:
The marvelous thing about xians is that they get a free pass at
everything. They can murder, lie, deceive at will, then they go to
"confession", recite a few prayers, and start all over again. They're
amoral.
Sorry, Olrik, I think your statement is a gross distortion of what most
Christians actually believe. Even when I was Presbyterian, I didn't
believe or practice such philosophies; neither did my Baptist mother,
nor my Jewish and Catholic best friends - or any other faithful
Christian I know today...
Indeed, I think the "conscience" of nearly everyone witnesses that
continued "murder," "lying," "deceiving," etc. are not
"acceptable" to God under *any* condition. Jesus Christ was pretty
clear that if we are to escape the natural consequences of personal
"evil," we each must truly swiftly repent (aka, "go and sin no
more").
Nevertheless, perhaps you're questioning *any* philosophy or doctrinal
belief that might minimize the importance of true repentance (which
includes forsaking the sin) in the process of receiving divine
forgiveness for our sins? I would agree that *any* teaching or
philosophy that minimizes the importance of actual *personal
righteousness* in accessing Christ's atonement becomes quite suspect.
(Apologies to our Jewish friends who might read this in the
cross-post)...
And, yes, I agree many Christians sometimes become confused about the
"dividing line" between the mix of faith and works required to
build an honest, virtuous Christian, Jewish, or unaffiliated life. The
"theory" is in our "faith;" the "implementation" of our
actual faith is in our righteous "works," based upon the pattern
defined by Christ. Yes, righteous works evolve from our faith in God
(Jesus Christ, for Christians), but on-going righteousness also is
required to nurture and sustain living faith approved by a clear
conscience (the Holy Ghost, for Christians) in our lives.
~Dale
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: The Bible vs The Disobedient. |
20 May 2006 12:41:35 AM |
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Dale wrote:
Olrik wrote:
The marvelous thing about xians is that they get a free pass at
everything. They can murder, lie, deceive at will, then they go to
"confession", recite a few prayers, and start all over again. They're
amoral.
Sorry, Olrik, I think your statement is a gross distortion of what most
Christians actually believe.
Most christians I know are, for lack of a better word, "normal". But
then so's the vast majority of people on this planet, regardless of
religion or lack thereof. What I can't stand is people who put
themselves above others, claim their "superior" morality, and are in
fact no better than the "rest of us". And those people, as history
showed us, can go as far as kill, lie and torture for their "faith".
Even when I was Presbyterian, I didn't
believe or practice such philosophies; neither did my Baptist mother,
nor my Jewish and Catholic best friends - or any other faithful
Christian I know today...
My experience exactly. But then xianity *does* give a "free pass", as I
described, and some amoral self-described "xians" take advantage of it.
Indeed, I think the "conscience" of nearly everyone witnesses that
continued "murder," "lying," "deceiving," etc. are not
"acceptable" to God under *any* condition. Jesus Christ was pretty
clear that if we are to escape the natural consequences of personal
"evil," we each must truly swiftly repent (aka, "go and sin no
more").
Whatever the religious vocabulary, I think that we, as social animals,
pretty much act as per our nature, unless infected by the "mob" virus.
That (virtual) virus infects us from time to time. The bigger the mob,
the bigger the massacre or holocaust.
(I hope I'm clear. English is not my first language.)
Nevertheless, perhaps you're questioning *any* philosophy or doctrinal
belief that might minimize the importance of true repentance (which
includes forsaking the sin) in the process of receiving divine
forgiveness for our sins?
I don't think we "sin" as much as express or repress our animal
instincts. As I said, we are social animals and, as a general behavior,
observe the "golden rule". I also think that when we slip, we slip
badly, and that occurs when the "mob" rule extends to a whole country.
We have a lot of "evolving" to do...
I would agree that *any* teaching or
philosophy that minimizes the importance of actual *personal
righteousness* in accessing Christ's atonement becomes quite suspect.
(Apologies to our Jewish friends who might read this in the
cross-post)...
I tend to look at the world at large. There are hundreds and hundreds
of societies that live and lived without the influence of the
"judeo-christian" traditions, and they pretty much behave like any
homo-sapiens would (I'm ignoring here small, isolated tribes.)
And, yes, I agree many Christians sometimes become confused about the
"dividing line" between the mix of faith and works required to
build an honest, virtuous Christian, Jewish, or unaffiliated life. The
"theory" is in our "faith;" the "implementation" of our
actual faith is in our righteous "works," based upon the pattern
defined by Christ. Yes, righteous works evolve from our faith in God
(Jesus Christ, for Christians), but on-going righteousness also is
required to nurture and sustain living faith approved by a clear
conscience (the Holy Ghost, for Christians) in our lives.
But you don't need that to be a "normal" human being. There are
countries that are oblivious to "judeo-christianity" and yet function
(warts and all) the same as those who do.
In conclusion, I think that, at its best, christianity is no better
than what socially exists or existed before it.
Olrik
~Dale
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: The Bible vs The Disobedient. |
19 May 2006 07:42:12 PM |
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On 19 May 2006 08:27:44 -0700, "Dale" <dale.little@gmail.com> wrote:
- Refer: <1148052464.586453.212330@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>
Olrik wrote:
The marvelous thing about xians is that they get a free pass at
everything. They can murder, lie, deceive at will, then they go to
"confession", recite a few prayers, and start all over again. They're
amoral.
Sorry, Olrik, I think your statement is a gross distortion of what most
Christians actually believe. Even when I was Presbyterian, I didn't
believe or practice such philosophies; neither did my Baptist mother,
nor my Jewish and Catholic best friends - or any other faithful
Christian I know today...
Indeed, I think the "conscience" of nearly everyone witnesses that
continued "murder," "lying," "deceiving," etc. are not
"acceptable" to God under *any* condition. Jesus Christ was pretty
clear that if we are to escape the natural consequences of personal
"evil," we each must truly swiftly repent (aka, "go and sin no
more").
That flies in the face of evidence.
It is clear that GW Bush is a genocidal criminal.
It is clear that his majority support base is Christian.
These majority Christians support the genocide of innocent Iraqis, (as
one example out of many).
The facts deny what you have just asserted.
Nevertheless, perhaps you're questioning *any* philosophy or doctrinal
belief that might minimize the importance of true repentance (which
includes forsaking the sin) in the process of receiving divine
forgiveness for our sins? I would agree that *any* teaching or
philosophy that minimizes the importance of actual *personal
righteousness* in accessing Christ's atonement becomes quite suspect.
(Apologies to our Jewish friends who might read this in the
cross-post)...
And, yes, I agree many Christians sometimes become confused about the
"dividing line" between the mix of faith and works required to
build an honest, virtuous Christian, Jewish, or unaffiliated life. The
"theory" is in our "faith;" the "implementation" of our
actual faith is in our righteous "works," based upon the pattern
defined by Christ. Yes, righteous works evolve from our faith in God
(Jesus Christ, for Christians), but on-going righteousness also is
required to nurture and sustain living faith approved by a clear
conscience (the Holy Ghost, for Christians) in our lives.
~Dale
--
Michael Gray.
Founding Member and Doorman,
Earthquack's 666 Club.
EAC Trainee Inquisitor of the month (2nd runner up: April)
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: The Bible vs The Disobedient. |
19 May 2006 06:28:46 AM |
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Previously, on alt.atheism, Olrik in episode
<1148016829.389967.157460@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>...
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
Previously, on alt.atheism, in episode
<1148009702.875704.177200@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>...
The Bible vs The Disobedient
That would be you who breaks newsgroup rules and Usenet conventions...
The marvelous thing about xians is that they get a free pass at
everything. They can murder, lie, deceive at will, then they go to
"confession", recite a few prayers, and start all over again. They're
amoral.
The religion's morality is *seriously defective. For all the claims that
people "need" the reward/punishment of the Christian god, there isn't any
such thing in the religion. You start off damned for something you didn't
do (that stupid tree in the garden story) but only have to pop off a
single "help me Jeebus" prayer and you're not damned for anything you do.
It rather reminds me of the way a spoiled, bratty little girl who has
daddy "wrapped around her finger" deals with things. That is, you can gete
away with anything long as you bat your eyes and say "I wuv you daddy!"
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection." [Jarvis DeBerry]
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
.
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