The dark side of faith



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "johac"
Date: 01 Oct 2005 06:25:25 PM
Object: The dark side of faith
Great op-ed piece in the LA Times today!
---
The dark side of faith
By ROSA BROOKS
October 1, 2005
IT'S OFFICIAL: Too much religion may be a dangerous thing.
This is the implication of a study reported in the current issue of the
Journal of Religion and Society, a publication of Creighton University's
Center for the Study of Religion. The study, by evolutionary scientist
Gregory S. Paul, looks at the correlation between levels of "popular
religiosity" and various "quantifiable societal health" indicators in 18
prosperous democracies, including the United States.
Paul ranked societies based on the percentage of their population
expressing absolute belief in God, the frequency of prayer reported by
their citizens and their frequency of attendance at religious services.
He then correlated this with data on rates of homicide, sexually
transmitted disease, teen pregnancy, abortion and child mortality.
He found that the most religious democracies exhibited substantially
higher degrees of social dysfunction than societies with larger
percentages of atheists and agnostics. Of the nations studied, the U.S.
‹ which has by far the largest percentage of people who take the Bible
literally and express absolute belief in God (and the lowest percentage
of atheists and agnostics) ‹ also has by far the highest levels of
homicide, abortion, teen pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases.
This conclusion will come as no surprise to those who have long gnashed
their teeth in frustration while listening to right-wing evangelical
claims that secular liberals are weak on "values." Paul's study confirms
globally what is already evident in the U.S.: When it comes to "values,"
if you look at facts rather than mere rhetoric, the substantially more
secular blue states routinely leave the Bible Belt red states in the
dust.
Murder rates? Six of the seven states with the highest 2003 homicide
rates were "red" in the 2004 elections (Louisiana, Mississippi, Nevada,
Arizona, Georgia, South Carolina), while the deep blue Northeastern
states had murder rates well below the national average. Infant
mortality rates? Highest in the South and Southwest; lowest in New
England. Divorce rates? Marriages break up far more in red states than
in blue. Teen pregnancy rates? The same.
Of course, the red/blue divide is only an imperfect proxy for levels of
religiosity. And while Paul's study found that the correlation between
high degrees of religiosity and high degrees of social dysfunction
appears robust, it could be that high levels of social dysfunction fuel
religiosity, rather than the other way around.
Although correlation is not causation, Paul's study offers much food for
thought. At a minimum, his findings suggest that contrary to popular
belief, lack of religiosity does societies no particular harm. This
should offer ammunition to those who maintain that religious belief is a
purely private matter and that government should remain neutral, not
only among religions but also between religion and lack of religion. It
should also give a boost to critics of "faith-based" social services and
abstinence-only disease and pregnancy prevention programs.
We shouldn't shy away from the possibility that too much religiosity may
be socially dangerous. Secular, rationalist approaches to
problem-solving emphasize uncertainty, evidence and perpetual
reevaluation. Religious faith is inherently nonrational.
This in itself does not make religion worthless or dangerous. All humans
hold nonrational beliefs, and some of these may have both individual and
societal value. But historically, societies run into trouble when
powerful religions become imperial and absolutist.
The claim that religion can have a dark side should not be news. Does
anyone doubt that Islamic extremism is linked to the recent rise in
international terrorism? And since the history of Christianity is every
bit as blood-drenched as the history of Islam, why should we doubt that
extremist forms of modern American Christianity have their own
pernicious and measurable effects on national health and well-being?
Arguably, Paul's study invites us to conclude that the most serious
threat humanity faces today is religious extremism: nonrational,
absolutist belief systems that refuse to tolerate difference and dissent.
My prediction is that right-wing evangelicals will do their best to
discredit Paul's substantive findings. But when they fail, they'll just
shrug: So what if highly religious societies have more murders and
disease than less religious societies? Remember the trials of Job? God
likes to test the faithful.
To the truly nonrational, even evidence that on its face undermines your
beliefs can be twisted to support them. Absolutism means never having to
say you're sorry.
And that, of course, is what makes it so very dangerous.
---
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-brooks1oct01,0,79924
14,print.story
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
.

User: "Greywolf"

Title: Re: The dark side of faith 02 Oct 2005 05:46:11 AM
"johac" <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com> wrote in message
news:jhachm-44E646.16252501102005@news.giganews.com...

Great op-ed piece in the LA Times today!


---
The dark side of faith

By ROSA BROOKS

October 1, 2005

IT'S OFFICIAL: Too much religion may be a dangerous thing.

This is the implication of a study reported in the current issue of the
Journal of Religion and Society, a publication of Creighton University's
Center for the Study of Religion. The study, by evolutionary scientist
Gregory S. Paul, looks at the correlation between levels of "popular
religiosity" and various "quantifiable societal health" indicators in 18
prosperous democracies, including the United States.

Paul ranked societies based on the percentage of their population
expressing absolute belief in God, the frequency of prayer reported by
their citizens and their frequency of attendance at religious services.
He then correlated this with data on rates of homicide, sexually
transmitted disease, teen pregnancy, abortion and child mortality.

He found that the most religious democracies exhibited substantially
higher degrees of social dysfunction than societies with larger
percentages of atheists and agnostics. Of the nations studied, the U.S.
< which has by far the largest percentage of people who take the Bible
literally and express absolute belief in God (and the lowest percentage
of atheists and agnostics) < also has by far the highest levels of
homicide, abortion, teen pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases.

This conclusion will come as no surprise to those who have long gnashed
their teeth in frustration while listening to right-wing evangelical
claims that secular liberals are weak on "values." Paul's study confirms
globally what is already evident in the U.S.: When it comes to "values,"
if you look at facts rather than mere rhetoric, the substantially more
secular blue states routinely leave the Bible Belt red states in the
dust.

Murder rates? Six of the seven states with the highest 2003 homicide
rates were "red" in the 2004 elections (Louisiana, Mississippi, Nevada,
Arizona, Georgia, South Carolina), while the deep blue Northeastern
states had murder rates well below the national average. Infant
mortality rates? Highest in the South and Southwest; lowest in New
England. Divorce rates? Marriages break up far more in red states than
in blue. Teen pregnancy rates? The same.

Of course, the red/blue divide is only an imperfect proxy for levels of
religiosity. And while Paul's study found that the correlation between
high degrees of religiosity and high degrees of social dysfunction
appears robust, it could be that high levels of social dysfunction fuel
religiosity, rather than the other way around.

Although correlation is not causation, Paul's study offers much food for
thought. At a minimum, his findings suggest that contrary to popular
belief, lack of religiosity does societies no particular harm. This
should offer ammunition to those who maintain that religious belief is a
purely private matter and that government should remain neutral, not
only among religions but also between religion and lack of religion. It
should also give a boost to critics of "faith-based" social services and
abstinence-only disease and pregnancy prevention programs.

We shouldn't shy away from the possibility that too much religiosity may
be socially dangerous. Secular, rationalist approaches to
problem-solving emphasize uncertainty, evidence and perpetual
reevaluation. Religious faith is inherently nonrational.

This in itself does not make religion worthless or dangerous. All humans
hold nonrational beliefs, and some of these may have both individual and
societal value. But historically, societies run into trouble when
powerful religions become imperial and absolutist.

The claim that religion can have a dark side should not be news. Does
anyone doubt that Islamic extremism is linked to the recent rise in
international terrorism? And since the history of Christianity is every
bit as blood-drenched as the history of Islam, why should we doubt that
extremist forms of modern American Christianity have their own
pernicious and measurable effects on national health and well-being?

Arguably, Paul's study invites us to conclude that the most serious
threat humanity faces today is religious extremism: nonrational,
absolutist belief systems that refuse to tolerate difference and dissent.

My prediction is that right-wing evangelicals will do their best to
discredit Paul's substantive findings. But when they fail, they'll just
shrug: So what if highly religious societies have more murders and
disease than less religious societies? Remember the trials of Job? God
likes to test the faithful.

To the truly nonrational, even evidence that on its face undermines your
beliefs can be twisted to support them. Absolutism means never having to
say you're sorry.

And that, of course, is what makes it so very dangerous.
---

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-brooks1oct01,0,79924
14,print.story
--
John Hachmann aa #1782

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit
atrocities"
-Voltaire

The author is right. The 'faithful' will just shrug their shoulders, think
the study is just a bunch of crap and revel in the fact that 'their' side
is in power now. ('Who gives a damn what a bunch of atheists and
agnostics think! They mean nothing to us.') Does anyone really
think *any* kind of study that is adverse to their way of thinking
will impact their way of thinking? Me thinks not.
(I got a different page. For those who do as well, try the one below).
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-oe-brooks1oct01,0,3034570.story?track=hpmostemailedlink
Greywolf
.
User: "massive"

Title: Re: The dark side of faith 02 Oct 2005 05:40:49 PM

The author is right. The 'faithful' will just shrug their shoulders, think
the study is just a bunch of crap and revel in the fact that 'their' side
is in power now. ('Who gives a damn what a bunch of atheists and
agnostics think! They mean nothing to us.')

Same response you atheists give when you see religious crap.
So, what's the difference?
.
User: "Bill"

Title: Re: The dark side of faith 02 Oct 2005 06:51:19 PM
"massive" <massive@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:434061fc$2_1@x-privat.org...


The author is right. The 'faithful' will just shrug their shoulders,
think
the study is just a bunch of crap and revel in the fact that 'their' side
is in power now. ('Who gives a damn what a bunch of atheists and
agnostics think! They mean nothing to us.')


Same response you atheists give when you see religious crap.
So, what's the difference?

The difference is catastrophic.
Religious belief is based on faith and unsubstantiated opinion with no
objective verifiable evidence to
support those beliefs.
Atheism is non belief in Gods. It is based on the fact there is NO objective
verifiable evidence that any
Gods actually exist.
.
User: "massive"

Title: Re: The dark side of faith 03 Oct 2005 01:28:57 PM
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:7m_%e.14772$8l3.11463@bignews5.bellsouth.net...


"massive" <massive@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:434061fc$2_1@x-privat.org...


The author is right. The 'faithful' will just shrug their shoulders,
think
the study is just a bunch of crap and revel in the fact that 'their' side
is in power now. ('Who gives a damn what a bunch of atheists and
agnostics think! They mean nothing to us.')


Same response you atheists give when you see religious crap.
So, what's the difference?


The difference is catastrophic.

Religious belief is based on faith and unsubstantiated opinion with no
objective verifiable evidence to
support those beliefs.

Atheism is non belief in Gods. It is based on the fact there is NO objective
verifiable evidence that any
Gods actually exist.

So? What makes you better than them thists? You don't believe in God?
That is the only thing? Your non belief in God makes you a better man
than the others that believe in God? Hm... I think theists think the same
way you do; we are better cause we believe in God.
So, I ask you again? WHAT is the difference? Except your disbelief
in this God thing(s). Hm? Cat caught yer tongue?
.
User: "JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrichs effort"

Title: Re: The dark side of faith 03 Oct 2005 03:22:49 PM
massive wrote:

"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:7m_%e.14772$8l3.11463@bignews5.bellsouth.net...

The difference is catastrophic.

Religious belief is based on faith and unsubstantiated opinion
with no objective verifiable evidence to support those beliefs.

Atheism is non belief in Gods. It is based on the fact there is
NO objective verifiable evidence that any Gods actually exist.


So? What makes you better than them thists? You don't believe in God?
That is the only thing? Your non belief in God makes you a better man
than the others that believe in God? Hm... I think theists think the same
way you do; we are better cause we believe in God.

Well, you're probably correct about theists, anyway.

So, I ask you again? WHAT is the difference? Except your disbelief
in this God thing(s). Hm? Cat caught yer tongue?

Why do you keep insisting atheists claim to be "better" than theists?
Atheists merely point out the irrationality of believing unsupported
assertions, like, for example, your assertion that atheists think
they're better than theists.
.
User: "massive"

Title: Re: The dark side of faith 03 Oct 2005 04:22:18 PM
"JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrich's effort" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote in message
news:1128370969.540885.102620@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

massive wrote:

"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message

news:7m_%e.14772$8l3.11463@bignews5.bellsouth.net...

The difference is catastrophic.

Religious belief is based on faith and unsubstantiated opinion
with no objective verifiable evidence to support those beliefs.

Atheism is non belief in Gods. It is based on the fact there is
NO objective verifiable evidence that any Gods actually exist.


So? What makes you better than them thists? You don't believe in God?
That is the only thing? Your non belief in God makes you a better man
than the others that believe in God? Hm... I think theists think the same
way you do; we are better cause we believe in God.


Well, you're probably correct about theists, anyway.

So, I ask you again? WHAT is the difference? Except your disbelief
in this God thing(s). Hm? Cat caught yer tongue?


Why do you keep insisting atheists claim to be "better" than theists?
Atheists merely point out the irrationality of believing unsupported
assertions, like, for example, your assertion that atheists think
they're better than theists.

But you do. If God is big and everywhere, and you atheists think that is
stoopid, yes... I believe that after a 'discovery' like that, any human would think
that he or she is better then those which are 'mere fools'. So yes... especially
if one were a religious type in his younger days, and then suddenly 'his eyes
were opened' and he turned his back to God. And became an atheist.
What?
You mean to tell me that atheists actually, sanely, and purposely made 'a step
down' ''from theism''? I hope you can understand what I mean... I suck at
american. I do better impressions of 'real english'. Like; blimey! Or; colour.
Or; cheers, mate! Ok, I suck at english 'english' too! Damn!
Ok, nevermind. Atheists are not better than theists. How about that?
.
User: "JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrichs effort"

Title: Re: The dark side of faith 03 Oct 2005 05:17:09 PM
massive wrote:

But you do.

Liar.
.
User: "massive"

Title: Re: The dark side of faith 03 Oct 2005 05:20:39 PM
"JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrich's effort" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote in message
news:1128377829.450460.33780@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...

massive wrote:

But you do.


Liar.

Ok. It must be true if you say so, sie fuehrer 'JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrich's effort'.
WHAT a nickname!
.
User: "JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrichs effort"

Title: Re: The dark side of faith 04 Oct 2005 09:22:08 AM
massive wrote:

"JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrich's effort" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote in message
news:1128377829.450460.33780@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...

massive wrote:

But you do.


Liar.


Ok.

Yep.
.







User: "stoney"

Title: Re: The dark side of faith 04 Oct 2005 11:33:00 AM
On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 00:40:49 +0200, "massive" <massive@gmail.com>
wrote:


The author is right. The 'faithful' will just shrug their shoulders, think
the study is just a bunch of crap and revel in the fact that 'their' side
is in power now. ('Who gives a damn what a bunch of atheists and
agnostics think! They mean nothing to us.')


Same response you atheists give when you see religious crap.
So, what's the difference?

Reality verses bronze-age fantasies, as usual.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
User: "hearsay"

Title: Re: The dark side of faith 05 Oct 2005 04:09:09 AM
"stoney" <stoney@the.net> wrote in message news:rkb5k1dapln3cp4gp9eeuro9jvic2neain@4ax.com...

On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 00:40:49 +0200, "massive" <massive@gmail.com>
wrote:


The author is right. The 'faithful' will just shrug their shoulders, think
the study is just a bunch of crap and revel in the fact that 'their' side
is in power now. ('Who gives a damn what a bunch of atheists and
agnostics think! They mean nothing to us.')


Same response you atheists give when you see religious crap.
So, what's the difference?


Reality verses bronze-age fantasies, as usual.

Oh, bronze-age was heaven man. Fresh air. Lots of food. More
ozone layer. Cleaner water. 'Shinier Sun'. Good stuff. Good ol'
days.
.


User: "JPG"

Title: Re: The dark side of faith 03 Oct 2005 05:00:49 AM
On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 00:40:49 +0200, "massive" <massive@gmail.com> wrote:


The author is right. The 'faithful' will just shrug their shoulders, think
the study is just a bunch of crap and revel in the fact that 'their' side
is in power now. ('Who gives a damn what a bunch of atheists and
agnostics think! They mean nothing to us.')


Same response you atheists give when you see religious crap.
So, what's the difference?

"Massive" just demonstrates what a typical theist response will be. Thank you
for that, Massive.
.
User: "massive"

Title: Re: The dark side of faith 03 Oct 2005 01:35:02 PM
"JPG" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:g802k1lklf1p3gnlcgr2qmdb713g7trqg7@4ax.com...

On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 00:40:49 +0200, "massive" <massive@gmail.com> wrote:


The author is right. The 'faithful' will just shrug their shoulders, think
the study is just a bunch of crap and revel in the fact that 'their' side
is in power now. ('Who gives a damn what a bunch of atheists and
agnostics think! They mean nothing to us.')


Same response you atheists give when you see religious crap.
So, what's the difference?


"Massive" just demonstrates what a typical theist response will be. Thank you
for that, Massive.

I am not a theist. But I'm no atheist either. I don't like flocks of people.
I don't truss em. Sorry JPG, you are wrong.
.
User: "JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrichs effort"

Title: Re: The dark side of faith 03 Oct 2005 03:17:39 PM
massive wrote:

"JPG" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:g802k1lklf1p3gnlcgr2qmdb713g7trqg7@4ax.com...

On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 00:40:49 +0200, "massive" <massive@gmail.com> wrote:

Same response you atheists give when you see religious crap.
So, what's the difference?


"Massive" just demonstrates what a typical theist response will be. Thank
you for that, Massive.


I am not a theist. But I'm no atheist either. I don't like flocks of people.
I don't truss em. Sorry JPG, you are wrong.

Haven't you got better things to do than lie, troll, and change names?
If you believe in any deities, you're a theist. If you believe deities
exist, but don't know for sure, you're an agnostic theist. If you
believe deities don't exist, but don't know for sure, you're an
agnostic atheist.
Learn what words mean.
.
User: "massive"

Title: Re: The dark side of faith 03 Oct 2005 04:34:35 PM
"JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrich's effort" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote in message
news:1128370659.231180.259990@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

massive wrote:

"JPG" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:g802k1lklf1p3gnlcgr2qmdb713g7trqg7@4ax.com...

On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 00:40:49 +0200, "massive" <massive@gmail.com> wrote:

Same response you atheists give when you see religious crap.
So, what's the difference?


"Massive" just demonstrates what a typical theist response will be. Thank
you for that, Massive.


I am not a theist. But I'm no atheist either. I don't like flocks of people.
I don't truss em. Sorry JPG, you are wrong.


Haven't you got better things to do than lie, troll, and change names?
If you believe in any deities, you're a theist. If you believe deities
exist, but don't know for sure, you're an agnostic theist. If you
believe deities don't exist, but don't know for sure, you're an
agnostic atheist.

Learn what words mean.

I don't believe in those words. Why? They are used to tag people
and put them 'in the right boxes'. I am not an atheist, I am not a theist,
I sure as hell am not an 'agnostic' theist. I would say I am an agnostic
atheist! That should do it... for now.
Times are a changing! We learn new things every day. God works in
mysterious ways... ok, wait. Jesse, help me. I said, just a few seconds
ago, that I am an atheist, and now I say that I actually do believe in God.
Oh my God! Oh, see? I did it again! *****! Help me Jesse. You are my
only Internet friend. And you are real. And you believe in real things. And
you are prolly a scientist!Please, help me! What is wrong with me? Can you
gimme some Prozac? No, better, could you arrange me a meeting with a
psychiatrist who can 'hook me up' on some 20.000 volts and stuff...
Now, say I'm mad! But don't lie. Pffffffffffffffff...
PS.
Don't worry. This nick stays. Hope that will make you happy. You see?
I care. Will you like me more now? Huh? I swear... I won't say that
dirrrty word 'dzi-ou-di' again, ok? God! No, damn! GOOD!
PPS.
See? I am telling you... do you believe I can change? Should we go
for up to 200.000 volts?
.
User: "JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrichs effort"

Title: Re: The dark side of faith 03 Oct 2005 05:17:54 PM
massive wrote:

I don't believe in those words.

Liar.
.
User: "massive"

Title: Re: The dark side of faith 03 Oct 2005 05:22:08 PM
"JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrich's effort" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote in message
news:1128377874.574403.75470@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

massive wrote:

I don't believe in those words.


Liar.

Hm... damn, it seems you really had a bad day! What's up?
Can I be of any assistance? I hate to see people being angry...
.
User: "JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrichs effort"

Title: Re: The dark side of faith 04 Oct 2005 09:20:48 AM
massive wrote:

"JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrich's effort" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote in message
news:1128377874.574403.75470@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

massive wrote:

I don't believe in those words.


Liar.


Hm... damn, it seems you really had a bad day! What's up?
Can I be of any assistance? I hate to see people being angry...

Liar.
.
User: "hearsay"

Title: Re: The dark side of faith 05 Oct 2005 03:58:37 AM
"JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrich's effort" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote in message
news:1128435648.743927.269120@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


massive wrote:

"JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrich's effort" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote in message
news:1128377874.574403.75470@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

massive wrote:

I don't believe in those words.


Liar.


Hm... damn, it seems you really had a bad day! What's up?
Can I be of any assistance? I hate to see people being angry...


Liar.

Oh... damn, I heard you the first time. Why do you say that I'm lying?
.
User: "JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrichs effort"

Title: Re: The dark side of faith 05 Oct 2005 12:43:00 PM
hearsay wrote:

"JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrich's effort" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote in message
news:1128435648.743927.269120@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


massive wrote:

"JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrich's effort" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote in message
news:1128377874.574403.75470@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

massive wrote:

I don't believe in those words.


Liar.


Hm... damn, it seems you really had a bad day! What's up?
Can I be of any assistance? I hate to see people being angry...


Liar.


Oh... damn, I heard you the first time. Why do you say that I'm lying?

Because you are.
.









User: "Chris Johnson"

Title: Re: The dark side of faith 02 Oct 2005 11:46:41 PM
massive wrote:

The author is right. The 'faithful' will just shrug their shoulders, think
the study is just a bunch of crap and revel in the fact that 'their' side
is in power now. ('Who gives a damn what a bunch of atheists and
agnostics think! They mean nothing to us.')


Same response you atheists give when you see religious crap.
So, what's the difference?

Ours is not a rejection of uncomfortable facts. We reject superstition
and half-baked theories.
.
User: "massive"

Title: Re: The dark side of faith 03 Oct 2005 01:30:26 PM
"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1128314801.385941.98680@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

massive wrote:

The author is right. The 'faithful' will just shrug their shoulders, think
the study is just a bunch of crap and revel in the fact that 'their' side
is in power now. ('Who gives a damn what a bunch of atheists and
agnostics think! They mean nothing to us.')


Same response you atheists give when you see religious crap.
So, what's the difference?


Ours is not a rejection of uncomfortable facts. We reject superstition
and half-baked theories.

And THAT makes you better people, humans?
I beg to differ my friend. I beg to differ.
.
User: "JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrichs effort"

Title: Re: The dark side of faith 03 Oct 2005 03:19:12 PM
massive wrote:

"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1128314801.385941.98680@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

massive wrote:

The author is right. The 'faithful' will just shrug their shoulders,
think the study is just a bunch of crap and revel in the fact that
'their' side is in power now. ('Who gives a damn what a bunch of
atheists and agnostics think! They mean nothing to us.')


Same response you atheists give when you see religious crap.
So, what's the difference?


Ours is not a rejection of uncomfortable facts. We reject superstition
and half-baked theories.


And THAT makes you better people, humans?

Who said that, other than you?

I beg to differ my friend. I beg to differ.

Beg for intelligence.
.
User: "massive"

Title: Re: The dark side of faith 03 Oct 2005 04:25:27 PM
"JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrich's effort" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote in message
news:1128370752.926886.268260@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

massive wrote:

"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1128314801.385941.98680@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

massive wrote:

The author is right. The 'faithful' will just shrug their shoulders,
think the study is just a bunch of crap and revel in the fact that
'their' side is in power now. ('Who gives a damn what a bunch of
atheists and agnostics think! They mean nothing to us.')


Same response you atheists give when you see religious crap.
So, what's the difference?


Ours is not a rejection of uncomfortable facts. We reject superstition
and half-baked theories.


And THAT makes you better people, humans?


Who said that, other than you?

You claim that throughout this NG. I didn't make that one up.
I see you making fun of theists, Gods, Jesus, religion, so I guess
that you are obviously smarter and you are right, and theists
are wrong. And I saw a couple of times that atheists actually
do claim that 'they are better than theists'.

I beg to differ my friend. I beg to differ.


Beg for intelligence.

Hm... should I beg you, oh thee, mighty giant head? I don't
need your intelligence Jesse. I had that when I was 4. Sorry.
But nevertheless, I believe in you, Jesse. See, not all theists
hate atheists.
.
User: "JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrichs effort"

Title: Re: The dark side of faith 03 Oct 2005 05:16:29 PM
massive wrote:

You claim that throughout this NG.

Liar.
.
User: "massive"

Title: Re: The dark side of faith 03 Oct 2005 05:20:59 PM
"JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrich's effort" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote in message
news:1128377789.788726.62230@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

massive wrote:

You claim that throughout this NG.


Liar.

Oh my, bad day at the job Jesse?
.
User: "JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrichs effort"

Title: Re: The dark side of faith 04 Oct 2005 09:22:25 AM
massive wrote:

"JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrich's effort" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote in message
news:1128377789.788726.62230@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

massive wrote:

You claim that throughout this NG.


Liar.


Oh my, bad day at the job Jesse?

Nope.
.





User: "Chris Johnson"

Title: Re: The dark side of faith 03 Oct 2005 04:06:43 PM
massive wrote:

"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1128314801.385941.98680@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

massive wrote:

The author is right. The 'faithful' will just shrug their shoulders, think
the study is just a bunch of crap and revel in the fact that 'their' side
is in power now. ('Who gives a damn what a bunch of atheists and
agnostics think! They mean nothing to us.')


Same response you atheists give when you see religious crap.
So, what's the difference?


Ours is not a rejection of uncomfortable facts. We reject superstition
and half-baked theories.


And THAT makes you better people, humans?

No. You're putting words in my mouth. Stop that. All I was doing was
explaining the difference.

I beg to differ my friend. I beg to differ.

You're wasting your time, as we seem to agree that atheists are not
inherently better people.
.
User: "massive"

Title: Re: The dark side of faith 03 Oct 2005 04:58:04 PM
"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1128373603.056872.14260@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


massive wrote:

"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1128314801.385941.98680@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

massive wrote:

The author is right. The 'faithful' will just shrug their shoulders, think
the study is just a bunch of crap and revel in the fact that 'their' side
is in power now. ('Who gives a damn what a bunch of atheists and
agnostics think! They mean nothing to us.')


Same response you atheists give when you see religious crap.
So, what's the difference?


Ours is not a rejection of uncomfortable facts. We reject superstition
and half-baked theories.


And THAT makes you better people, humans?


No. You're putting words in my mouth. Stop that. All I was doing was
explaining the difference.

I am not putting anything in your mouth man...

I beg to differ my friend. I beg to differ.


You're wasting your time, as we seem to agree that atheists are not
inherently better people.

So, what new did atheists 'bring', 'discover'? How did atheists
make this world better? You got 'rid' of the 'all seeing eye'? Guilt?
You found salvation in fucking two women, two men? All four of
them at once? Dunno... you can touch your pee-pee again? You
don't have to read bible? WHAT? Gimme some substance... don't
hide yer legs like a snake man... :)
Hahahahahaha...
.
User: "Les Hellawell"

Title: Re: The dark side of faith 04 Oct 2005 07:22:08 AM
On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 23:58:04 +0200, "massive" <massive@gmail.com>
wrote:


"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1128373603.056872.14260@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


massive wrote:

"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1128314801.385941.98680@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

massive wrote:

The author is right. The 'faithful' will just shrug their shoulders, think
the study is just a bunch of crap and revel in the fact that 'their' side
is in power now. ('Who gives a damn what a bunch of atheists and
agnostics think! They mean nothing to us.')


Same response you atheists give when you see religious crap.
So, what's the difference?


Ours is not a rejection of uncomfortable facts. We reject superstition
and half-baked theories.


And THAT makes you better people, humans?

No.


No. You're putting words in my mouth. Stop that. All I was doing was
explaining the difference.


I am not putting anything in your mouth man...

I beg to differ my friend. I beg to differ.


You're wasting your time, as we seem to agree that atheists are not
inherently better people.


So, what new did atheists 'bring', 'discover'?

Nothing (as atheists)

How did atheists make this world better?

They didn't (as atheists) nor did they make it worse.

You got 'rid' of the 'all seeing eye'? Guilt?

What 'all seeing eye' and no (we did not get rid of guilt - we
are not Roman Catholics able to 'confess' it all away)

You found salvation in fucking two women, two men? All four of
them at once? Dunno... you can touch your pee-pee again? You
don't have to read bible? WHAT? Gimme some substance... don't
hide yer legs like a snake man... :)

How does insulting people help?


Hahahahahaha...

Whose laughing at who now? Who thinks he is superior
now?
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
.








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