| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
08 Sep 2005 02:18:06 PM |
| Object: |
The Dark Side of Man |
THEOCRACY IN ACTION
http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/9/72005b.asp
The Dark Side of Man
The devastation of Hurricane Katrina has stripped away more than houses and
land; it has uncovered the darkness of the human soul.
Feature by Steve Crampton
September 7, 2005
(AgapePress) - The epic tragedy of the New Orleans disaster grows sadder
every day. We all breathed a sigh of relief when Katrina turned east just
before striking the city, sparing it from the full brunt of the storm's
awesome power. But as the story continues to unfold, we have gone from hope
to despair, as first the levees broke and now rescue efforts have sputtered
and slogged forward due to the lawless looting, shooting, and the
resistance of many to leave. There have also been reports of rape.
Lest anyone respond that the looting is justified because the looters are
simply trying to feed their families, I have two responses. First, stealing
is wrong under any circumstances. Second, food is not the primary item
being stolen. As one newspaper from Biloxi, Mississippi, reported, in a
recent break-in at a convenience store, cigarettes, cigars and beer were
taken, but the food was not touched. One of the most often stolen items is
guns. Nursing homes are under siege. Almost overnight, New Orleans has
become a war zone.
[SNIP]
The truth is that Katrina did not make us this way. It was not our
environment. It was not our parents, our neighbors, or even our education.
It is the way we are. The soul of man is not basically good, as has been
presumed for so long by so many. It is, in fact, desperately wicked. And
all the excuses and explanations in the world cannot cover it up. It is
currently being broadcast daily on every major network for all the world to
see, if only we have eyes.
[SNIP]
The souls of those who have embraced crime in New Orleans are of the same
basic essence as the souls of Josef Stalin, Adolph Hitler, Jeffrey Dahmer
.... and you and me. That's right; we are no different from the worst
criminal when it comes to the capacity of our hearts to do evil.
The heart of man is desperately wicked, Scripture informs us. And the same
verse explains simply and without fanfare why we are so quick to excuse our
own behavior and think so well of ourselves -- our hearts are deceitful
above all things. Desperately wicked, and deceitful above all things.
Perhaps this is why we so readily accepted the oft-heard plea to increase
funding for education in order to alleviate poverty, which in turn would
make our citizenry a better, more moral people. We lie to ourselves, and we
like it.
Perhaps that is also why we have so easily accepted the so-called
separation of church and state, explicit instruction on sex education,
evolution, and moral relativism, all of which are echoed on the latest
sit-coms and reality TV shows. We tell ourselves it is the law, or that it
is only entertainment, or that we are too busy to spend hours pouring over
every textbook our children bring home. How much harm can it do, anyway?
[SNIP]
Our society has largely disavowed moral laws. The firestorm surrounding the
posting of the Ten Commandments in public bears ample witness of this fact.
And civil laws, in the minds of most citizens today, are made to be broken.
Once the "bayonet" of state and local law enforcement was removed in New
Orleans, then, the raw power of our sinful hearts was unleashed. It is not
a pretty sight.
[SNIP]
Steve Crampton (clp@afa.net) serves as chief counsel of the American Family
Association Center for Law & Policy (CLP), a public interest-type law firm.
Mr. Crampton's daily radio show, "We Hold These Truths," can be heard on
almost 200 radio stations nationwide.
***************************************************************
Posting and reading from alt.politics.usa.constitution OR alt.education
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members]
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
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| User: "Misleart Chuff" |
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| Title: Re: The Dark Side of Man |
08 Sep 2005 05:01:09 PM |
|
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<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:o0i0i19aj9dgs5vdt5pnfu460eb2t1gl2c@4ax.com...
: THEOCRACY IN ACTION
:
: http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/9/72005b.asp
:
: The Dark Side of Man
:
: The devastation of Hurricane Katrina has stripped away more than
houses and
: land; it has uncovered the darkness of the human soul.
:
: Feature by Steve Crampton
: September 7, 2005
:
: (AgapePress) - The epic tragedy of the New Orleans disaster grows
sadder
: every day. We all breathed a sigh of relief when Katrina turned east
just
: before striking the city, sparing it from the full brunt of the
storm's
: awesome power. But as the story continues to unfold, we have gone
from hope
: to despair, as first the levees broke and now rescue efforts have
sputtered
: and slogged forward due to the lawless looting, shooting, and the
: resistance of many to leave. There have also been reports of rape.
:
: Lest anyone respond that the looting is justified because the
looters are
: simply trying to feed their families, I have two responses. First,
stealing
: is wrong under any circumstances.
What a boy wonder! What a shame his words are available to read at
all.....
Second, food is not the primary item
: being stolen. As one newspaper from Biloxi, Mississippi, reported,
in a
: recent break-in at a convenience store, cigarettes, cigars and beer
were
: taken, but the food was not touched. One of the most often stolen
items is
: guns. Nursing homes are under siege. Almost overnight, New Orleans
has
: become a war zone.
How the _FUCK_ do they know what people are stealing? I really doubt
that anyone is observing most of the thefts, or doing inventories to
find out what is gone....which leaves - GUESSING!
: [SNIP]
:
:
:
: The truth is that Katrina did not make us this way. It was not our
: environment. It was not our parents, our neighbors, or even our
education.
: It is the way we are. The soul of man is not basically good, as has
been
: presumed for so long by so many. It is, in fact, desperately wicked.
And
: all the excuses and explanations in the world cannot cover it up. It
is
: currently being broadcast daily on every major network for all the
world to
: see, if only we have eyes.
My opinion? Little Stevie can speak only for himself. People aren't
naturally either good or evil, they are taught behaviors, but make
their own choices in the end.
: [SNIP]
:
:
: The souls of those who have embraced crime in New Orleans are of the
same
: basic essence as the souls of Josef Stalin, Adolph Hitler, Jeffrey
Dahmer
: ... and you and me. That's right; we are no different from the worst
: criminal when it comes to the capacity of our hearts to do evil.
:
: The heart of man is desperately wicked, Scripture informs us.
Silly Stevie, doesn't remember that these "scriptures" were written
by......men, deceitful men.
And the same
: verse explains simply and without fanfare why we are so quick to
excuse our
: own behavior and think so well of ourselves -- our hearts are
deceitful
: above all things. Desperately wicked, and deceitful above all
things.
: Perhaps this is why we so readily accepted the oft-heard plea to
increase
: funding for education in order to alleviate poverty, which in turn
would
: make our citizenry a better, more moral people. We lie to ourselves,
and we
: like it.
Ah, I see, so he's against education, too. What an asswipe.
: Perhaps that is also why we have so easily accepted the so-called
: separation of church and state, explicit instruction on sex
education,
: evolution, and moral relativism, all of which are echoed on the
latest
: sit-coms and reality TV shows. We tell ourselves it is the law, or
that it
: is only entertainment, or that we are too busy to spend hours
pouring over
: every textbook our children bring home. How much harm can it do,
anyway?
How much harm can it do? Silly Stevie, doesn't know it depends on
just what it is that you're pouring over the textbooks. What a truly
fucked up *****.
: [SNIP]
:
:
: Our society has largely disavowed moral laws. The firestorm
surrounding the
: posting of the Ten Commandments in public bears ample witness of
this fact.
: And civil laws, in the minds of most citizens today, are made to be
broken.
: Once the "bayonet" of state and local law enforcement was removed in
New
: Orleans, then, the raw power of our sinful hearts was unleashed. It
is not
: a pretty sight.
"Bayonet"? What is he tripping on?
: [SNIP]
:
:
: Steve Crampton (clp@afa.net) serves as chief counsel of the American
Family
: Association Center for Law & Policy (CLP), a public interest-type
law firm.
: Mr. Crampton's daily radio show, "We Hold These Truths," can be
heard on
: almost 200 radio stations nationwide.
"We hold these truths hostage" might be more like it....why couldn't
he have drowned along with the innocent people?
.
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| User: "Witziges Rätsel" |
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| Title: Re: The Dark Side of Man |
08 Sep 2005 04:40:24 PM |
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The truth is that Katrina did not make us this way. It was not our
environment. It was not our parents, our neighbors, or even our education.
It is the way we are. The soul of man is not basically good, as has been
presumed for so long by so many. It is, in fact, desperately wicked. And
all the excuses and explanations in the world cannot cover it up.
I am not wicked; neither are most of the people I know.
Besides, "goodness" and "badness" are matters of opinion,
circumstance, and perspective.
.
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| User: "IKnowHimDoYou- A." |
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| Title: Re: The Dark Side of Man |
09 Sep 2005 03:12:32 PM |
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In article <30540$432068d6$41e50fbb$19459@DIALUPUSA.NET>, "Witziges
Rätsel" <zer@roer.com> wrote:
The truth is that Katrina did not make us this way. It was not our
environment. It was not our parents, our neighbors, or even our education.
It is the way we are. The soul of man is not basically good, as has been
presumed for so long by so many. It is, in fact, desperately wicked. And
all the excuses and explanations in the world cannot cover it up.
I am not wicked; neither are most of the people I know.
Besides, "goodness" and "badness" are matters of opinion,
circumstance, and perspective.
___________________________________________________________
Tell that to God when you stand before His Judgement seat...
"For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23
.
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: The Dark Side of Man |
09 Sep 2005 04:58:09 PM |
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(IKnowHimDoYou- A.)
In article <30540$432068d6$41e50fbb$19459@DIALUPUSA.NET>, "Witziges
Rätsel" <zer@roer.com> wrote:
The truth is that Katrina did not make us this way. It was not our
environment. It was not our parents, our neighbors, or even our education.
It is the way we are. The soul of man is not basically good, as has been
presumed for so long by so many. It is, in fact, desperately wicked. And
all the excuses and explanations in the world cannot cover it up.
I am not wicked; neither are most of the people I know.
Besides, "goodness" and "badness" are matters of opinion,
circumstance, and perspective.
___________________________________________________________
Tell that to God when you stand before His Judgement seat...
I'm sure you'll want to repeat that sentence as you watch Annubis
weighing your heart against the feather of Ma'at, with Babi
clamoring to devour your heart if it is found insufficient.
-- cary
.
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| User: "IKnowHimDoYou- A." |
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| Title: Re: The Dark Side of Man |
09 Sep 2005 10:14:25 PM |
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In article <dfsev1$c7b$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu>,
cary@afone.as.arizona.edu (Cary Kittrell) wrote:
IKnowHim@leavingsoon.com (IKnowHimDoYou- A.)
In article <30540$432068d6$41e50fbb$19459@DIALUPUSA.NET>, "Witziges
Rätsel" <zer@roer.com> wrote:
The truth is that Katrina did not make us this way. It was not our
environment. It was not our parents, our neighbors, or even our
education.
It is the way we are. The soul of man is not basically good, as has been
presumed for so long by so many. It is, in fact, desperately wicked. And
all the excuses and explanations in the world cannot cover it up.
I am not wicked; neither are most of the people I know.
Besides, "goodness" and "badness" are matters of opinion,
circumstance, and perspective.
___________________________________________________________
Tell that to God when you stand before His Judgement seat...
I'm sure you'll want to repeat that sentence as you watch Annubis
weighing your heart against the feather of Ma'at, with Babi
clamoring to devour your heart if it is found insufficient.
-- cary
______________________________________________________________
Afraid of God's Word huh, cary?
"For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23
.
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| User: "Gray Shockley" |
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| Title: Re: The Dark Side of Man |
12 Sep 2005 04:07:57 AM |
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"For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23
100% failure rate.
.
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| User: "WCB" |
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| Title: Re: The Dark Side of Man |
12 Sep 2005 06:45:46 AM |
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Gray Shockley wrote:
"For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23
100% failure rate.
God creates all. God is omniscient, knowing all.
If god creates a universe, he will know 14 billion years from now,
that a man named John Smith will exist. If that man is to be good
and saved, god will know that. If that man is to be evil, and damned, god
will know that. God has a choice, he may allow his creation to create and
evil Smith or a good Smith.
Only god has a choice, not Smith. And god must personally and
purposefully make that choice.
And so it is for al sentient beings. Our goodbness or evil is directly
created and decided on by god, personally and purposefully.
So all sin is god's personal and purposeful choice.
To create a man evil and punish him for being evil is evil,
therefore god is evil.
This god business makes no sense and nobody has brains
enought to seemingly notice that ugly little fact.
In a world with an omniscient god who creates all, free will
cannot exist for man or other sentient beings in any way,
not even in principle. This is a failed religion.
--
"Today the official spokesman for the Foxes
agreed an investigation into what happened
to the henhouse may be needed."
Cheerful Charlie
.
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: The Dark Side of Man |
09 Sep 2005 10:30:07 PM |
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In article <IKnowHim-0909051514250001@pm1-35.kalama.com> (IKnowHimDoYou- A.) writes:
In article <dfsev1$c7b$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu>,
cary@afone.as.arizona.edu (Cary Kittrell) wrote:
(IKnowHimDoYou- A.)
In article <30540$432068d6$41e50fbb$19459@DIALUPUSA.NET>, "Witziges
Rätsel" <zer@roer.com> wrote:
The truth is that Katrina did not make us this way. It was not our
environment. It was not our parents, our neighbors, or even our
education.
It is the way we are. The soul of man is not basically good, as has been
presumed for so long by so many. It is, in fact, desperately wicked. And
all the excuses and explanations in the world cannot cover it up.
I am not wicked; neither are most of the people I know.
Besides, "goodness" and "badness" are matters of opinion,
circumstance, and perspective.
___________________________________________________________
Tell that to God when you stand before His Judgement seat...
I'm sure you'll want to repeat that sentence as you watch Annubis
weighing your heart against the feather of Ma'at, with Babi
clamoring to devour your heart if it is found insufficient.
-- cary
______________________________________________________________
Afraid of God's Word huh, cary?
Neither that of your god, nor that of Annubis.
Which was, of course, my point.
-- cary
.
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| User: "Gray Shockley" |
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| Title: Re: The Dark Side of Man |
12 Sep 2005 04:01:28 AM |
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On Fri, 9 Sep 2005 17:30:07 -0500, Cary Kittrell wrote
(in article <dft2df$fc$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu>):
In article <IKnowHim-0909051514250001@pm1-35.kalama.com>
IKnowHim@leavingsoon.com (IKnowHimDoYou- A.) writes:
In article <dfsev1$c7b$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu>,
cary@afone.as.arizona.edu (Cary Kittrell) wrote:
IKnowHim@leavingsoon.com (IKnowHimDoYou- A.)
In article <30540$432068d6$41e50fbb$19459@DIALUPUSA.NET>, "Witziges
Rätsel" <zer@roer.com> wrote:
The truth is that Katrina did not make us this way. It was not our
environment. It was not our parents, our neighbors, or even our
education.
It is the way we are. The soul of man is not basically good, as has been
presumed for so long by so many. It is, in fact, desperately wicked. And
all the excuses and explanations in the world cannot cover it up.
I am not wicked; neither are most of the people I know.
Besides, "goodness" and "badness" are matters of opinion,
circumstance, and perspective.
___________________________________________________________
Tell that to God when you stand before His Judgement seat...
I'm sure you'll want to repeat that sentence as you watch Annubis
weighing your heart against the feather of Ma'at, with Babi
clamoring to devour your heart if it is found insufficient.
-- cary
______________________________________________________________
Afraid of God's Word huh, cary?
Neither that of your god, nor that of Annubis.
Which was, of course, my point.
-- cary
And yet the turtle moves.
.
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| User: "1880 Dead" |
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| Title: Re: The Dark Side of Man |
09 Sep 2005 04:54:02 PM |
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On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 08:12:32 -0700,
(IKnowHimDoYou- A.) wrote:
In article <30540$432068d6$41e50fbb$19459@DIALUPUSA.NET>, "Witziges
Rätsel" <zer@roer.com> wrote:
The truth is that Katrina did not make us this way. It was not our
environment. It was not our parents, our neighbors, or even our education.
It is the way we are. The soul of man is not basically good, as has been
presumed for so long by so many. It is, in fact, desperately wicked. And
all the excuses and explanations in the world cannot cover it up.
I am not wicked; neither are most of the people I know.
Besides, "goodness" and "badness" are matters of opinion,
circumstance, and perspective.
___________________________________________________________
Tell that to God when you stand before His Judgement seat...
"For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23
Is your big sugar daddy in the sky planning to hit the south with any
more hurricanes this year?
.
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| User: "Gall" |
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| Title: Re: The Dark Side of Man |
09 Sep 2005 11:29:56 PM |
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On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 09:54:02 -0700, 1880 Dead
<zepp#22111880dead@nospamzeppscommentaries.com> wrote:
On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 08:12:32 -0700,
(IKnowHimDoYou- A.) wrote:
In article <30540$432068d6$41e50fbb$19459@DIALUPUSA.NET>, "Witziges
Rätsel" <zer@roer.com> wrote:
The truth is that Katrina did not make us this way. It was not our
environment. It was not our parents, our neighbors, or even our education.
It is the way we are. The soul of man is not basically good, as has been
presumed for so long by so many. It is, in fact, desperately wicked. And
all the excuses and explanations in the world cannot cover it up.
I am not wicked; neither are most of the people I know.
Besides, "goodness" and "badness" are matters of opinion,
circumstance, and perspective.
___________________________________________________________
Tell that to God when you stand before His Judgement seat...
"For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23
Is your big sugar daddy in the sky planning to hit the south with any
more hurricanes this year?
What does your goddess say, Greywolf?
--
"I'd been drawn toward Wicca for many years, then one night She
pretty much came up and tapped me on the shoulder and said hello. Not
literally, but that's how it felt. I believe in the Goddess and the God
because I have felt Their touch... "
Greywolf Zepp Jamieson Aug 12 1996,
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/c7ca14e74a59cfb6?hl=en&
.
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| User: "Gray Shockley" |
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| Title: Re: The Dark Side of Man |
12 Sep 2005 04:25:07 AM |
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On Friday, Ashamed to be a Christian, wrote anonymously:
In article <30540$432068d6$41e50fbb$19459@DIALUPUSA.NET>, "Witziges
Rätsel" <zer@roer.com> wrote:
The truth is that Katrina did not make us this way. It was not our
environment. It was not our parents, our neighbors, or even our education.
It is the way we are. The soul of man is not basically good, as has been
presumed for so long by so many. It is, in fact, desperately wicked. And
all the excuses and explanations in the world cannot cover it up.
I am not wicked; neither are most of the people I know.
Besides, "goodness" and "badness" are matters of opinion,
circumstance, and perspective.
___________________________________________________________
Tell that to God when you stand before His Judgement seat...
You misspelled "Her"; hope this helps.
Gray Shockley
-------------------------------------------------
One man's religion is another man's belly laugh.
- Jubal Harshaw (Channeled through RAH)
"For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23
.
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: The Dark Side of Man |
08 Sep 2005 04:56:25 PM |
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In article <o0i0i19aj9dgs5vdt5pnfu460eb2t1gl2c@4ax.com> writes:
THEOCRACY IN ACTION
http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/9/72005b.asp
The Dark Side of Man
The devastation of Hurricane Katrina has stripped away more than houses and
land; it has uncovered the darkness of the human soul.
Feature by Steve Crampton
September 7, 2005
(AgapePress) - The epic tragedy of the New Orleans disaster grows sadder
every day. We all breathed a sigh of relief when Katrina turned east just
before striking the city, sparing it from the full brunt of the storm's
awesome power. But as the story continues to unfold, we have gone from hope
to despair, as first the levees broke and now rescue efforts have sputtered
and slogged forward due to the lawless looting, shooting, and the
resistance of many to leave. There have also been reports of rape.
Lest anyone respond that the looting is justified because the looters are
simply trying to feed their families, I have two responses. First, stealing
is wrong under any circumstances.
If you are starving, and there is no other way, then not stealing
food is immoral.
If your children -- or a complete stranger -- are starving, and there
is no other way to get food, then not stealing food is completely immoral.
The Jesus I read about never seemed to feel that property rights
trump life itself.
Second, food is not the primary item being stolen.
That is correct. The primary item stolen was potable water.
As one newspaper from Biloxi, Mississippi, reported, in a
recent break-in at a convenience store, cigarettes, cigars and beer were
taken, but the food was not touched. One of the most often stolen items is
guns. Nursing homes are under siege. Almost overnight, New Orleans has
become a war zone.
[SNIP]
The truth is that Katrina did not make us this way. It was not our
environment. It was not our parents, our neighbors, or even our education.
It is the way we are. The soul of man is not basically good, as has been
presumed for so long by so many. It is, in fact, desperately wicked. And
all the excuses and explanations in the world cannot cover it up. It is
currently being broadcast daily on every major network for all the world to
see, if only we have eyes.
And of course these disasters traditionally also bring out the very best,
the most selfless, the most heroic and self-sacrificing behavior as well.
I'm sure there were countless examples of that "basically good" nature
in New Orleans as there always are. A few idiots with guns does
not nullify that.
[SNIP]
The souls of those who have embraced crime in New Orleans are of the same
basic essence as the souls of Josef Stalin, Adolph Hitler, Jeffrey Dahmer
... and you and me. That's right; we are no different from the worst
criminal when it comes to the capacity of our hearts to do evil.
The heart of man is desperately wicked, Scripture informs us. And the same
verse explains simply and without fanfare why we are so quick to excuse our
own behavior and think so well of ourselves -- our hearts are deceitful
above all things. Desperately wicked, and deceitful above all things.
Speak for yourself, Vlad.
Perhaps this is why we so readily accepted the oft-heard plea to increase
funding for education in order to alleviate poverty, which in turn would
make our citizenry a better, more moral people. We lie to ourselves, and we
like it.
Perhaps that is also why we have so easily accepted the so-called
separation of church and state, explicit instruction on sex education,
evolution, and moral relativism, all of which are echoed on the latest
sit-coms and reality TV shows. We tell ourselves it is the law, or that it
is only entertainment, or that we are too busy to spend hours pouring over
every textbook our children bring home. How much harm can it do, anyway?
We are talking about heavily Catholic New Orleans here, are we not?
-- cary
.
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| User: "Secret Squirrel" |
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| Title: Re: The Dark Side of Man |
09 Sep 2005 04:02:36 PM |
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
cary@afone.as.arizona.edu (Cary Kittrell) wrote in
news:dfpqfp$iel$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu:
In article <o0i0i19aj9dgs5vdt5pnfu460eb2t1gl2c@4ax.com>
buckeye-ELO@nospam.net writes:
THEOCRACY IN ACTION
http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/9/72005b.asp
The Dark Side of Man
The devastation of Hurricane Katrina has stripped away
more than houses and land; it has uncovered the darkness
of the human soul.
Feature by Steve Crampton
September 7, 2005
Lest anyone respond that the looting is justified because
the looters are simply trying to feed their families, I
have two responses. First, stealing is wrong under any
circumstances.
If you are starving, and there is no other way, then not
stealing food is immoral.
If your children -- or a complete stranger -- are starving,
and there is no other way to get food, then not stealing
food is completely immoral.
The Jesus I read about never seemed to feel that property
rights trump life itself.
Second, food is not the primary item being stolen.
That is correct. The primary item stolen was potable
water.
A couple of additional angles on this, Cary.
One, I have an acquaintance in New Orleans who was doing
volunteer work for the hospital during the aftermath of
Katrina. When they ran out of something, they told him to
just go "loot" it from the local Wal-Mart. My acquaintance
might have been one of the very ones filmed carrying out
stuff that obviously wasn't food, or water perhaps, but
things the hospital needed. He might have been one of those
ones causing so much public hand-wringing.
But even when there isn't any greater good involved, I
have hard time understanding why anyone would get that
terribly upset about people rushing in to take things from
a store which was being flooded, or on fire, and everything
inside was going be ruined or destroyed if not removed.
What Steve Crampton calls "looting", I call "salvage".
I'd much sooner have *someone* make use of those items
rather than they be just destroyed for naught. I can understand
perfectly the attitude of "might as well take it, because
otherwise it's going to get ruined".
Ahh, but that raises another interest, doesn't it? Who is
the only one who would rather to see merchandise be destroyed
than have people salvage it? Why, the capitalist. Every item
rescued from destruction from those stores was one less item
that the "looters" (i.e., salvagers) need buy. I remember
my days as a college student, working as a shift manager in
a fast-food shop, and the owner had exactly the same attitude
towards "no shows" (call-in orders that people never showed
up to pick up). He told us to trash it, and NOT to give it
away at end of the shift. (Most of us quietly violated that
order rather than throw perfectly good food away. Sometimes
we even managed to get it to the local homeless shelter.)
Funny how the media rushes in and only reports the interests
of the propertied classes in the US, no?
As one newspaper from Biloxi, Mississippi, reported, in a
recent break-in at a convenience store, cigarettes, cigars
and beer were taken, but the food was not touched. One of
the most often stolen items is guns. Nursing homes are
under siege. Almost overnight, New Orleans has become a
war zone.
[SNIP]
The truth is that Katrina did not make us this way. It was
not our environment. It was not our parents, our
neighbors, or even our education. It is the way we are.
The soul of man is not basically good, as has been
presumed for so long by so many. It is, in fact,
desperately wicked. And all the excuses and explanations
in the world cannot cover it up. It is currently being
broadcast daily on every major network for all the world
to see, if only we have eyes.
And of course these disasters traditionally also bring out
the very best, the most selfless, the most heroic and
self-sacrificing behavior as well. I'm sure there were
countless examples of that "basically good" nature in New
Orleans as there always are. A few idiots with guns does
not nullify that.
Well said.
Secret Squirrel
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| User: "zerkanX" |
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| Title: Re: The Dark Side of God? |
11 Sep 2005 09:27:52 AM |
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On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 10:18:06 -0400, buckeye-EL wrote:
The heart of man is desperately wicked, Scripture informs us. And the same
verse explains simply and without fanfare why we are so quick to excuse our
own behavior and think so well of ourselves -- our hearts are deceitful
above all things.
Yikes!! Well I wonder how he then figures that a perfect God could have
created such despicably imperfect beings? Is it possible for such wickedness to
come from a pure perfect being? Let's go to the Scriptures!!(???)
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| User: "WCB" |
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| Title: Re: The Dark Side of God? |
11 Sep 2005 11:45:27 AM |
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zerkanX wrote:
On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 10:18:06 -0400, buckeye-EL wrote:
The heart of man is desperately wicked, Scripture informs us. And the
same verse explains simply and without fanfare why we are so quick to
excuse our own behavior and think so well of ourselves -- our hearts are
deceitful above all things.
Yikes!! Well I wonder how he then figures that a perfect God could have
created such despicably imperfect beings? Is it possible for such
wickedness to come from a pure perfect being? Let's go to the
Scriptures!!(???)
Genesis 6, God decides to destroy all life on Earth because
people are wicked.
But in Genesis 6, after creating man on the sixth day, god
pronounces his creation as good. Hmmmmm.
Now, god is supposedly omnipotent and omniscient.
How can such a god create man wicked, and be mistaken
about the goodness of that creation as per Genesis 1?
So in Genesis 6, god decides to destroy everything, including
all innocent animals because man is wicked?
So all those it was goods of Genesis 1 were an error on God's part or does
he destroy good?
This stupid god thing supposedly finally apeares to his pet Jews
with long messages as to how to build the tabernacle, how
many loops the curtains are to have, where to use the badger skins,
and other idiocies? He appears to man and tells him what part
of offerings their overfed priests are to eat and what part they
are to burn as an offering.
Yet he could not at Genesis 6 make an appearance to man and
lay down laws? Better ones hopefully than the imagined laws of
the idiot billy goat herder priests imagined god making in
Exodus and Levitucus.
There is no god, all you have is a cretinous book written
by evil, small minded, primitive men imagining a stupid,
petty, evil, god.
--
"Today the official spokesman for the Foxes
agreed an investigation into what happened
to the henhouse may be needed."
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "zerkanX" |
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| Title: Re: The Dark Side of God? |
18 Sep 2005 12:39:00 PM |
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On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 06:45:27 -0500, WCB wrote:
Genesis 6, God decides...
Yea I say unto you that they shall look upon these words and see
themselves and they shalt be filled with a spirit saying unto all
men,' Verily, we have seen the will of god' even though they see
only their own heart. For the man with revenge in his heart shall see revenge.
The man
of love shall see love. The man who covets shall see the power to
possess. The prideful and vain shall see himself as favored above all
others. The man of war shall find war and, yea, even he who has hatred in his
heart shall find righteousness.
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| User: "human" |
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| Title: Re: The Dark Side of God? |
19 Sep 2005 04:24:39 PM |
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On Sun, 18 Sep 2005, zerkanX wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 06:45:27 -0500, WCB wrote:
Genesis 6, God decides...
Yea I say unto you that they shall look upon these words and see
themselves and they shalt be filled with a spirit saying unto all men,'
Verily, we have seen the will of god' even though they see only their own heart. For the man with revenge in his heart shall see revenge. The man of love shall see love. The man who covets shall see the power to possess. The prideful and vain shall see himself as favored above all others. The man of war shall find war and, yea, even he who has hatred in his heart shall find righteousness.>>
Hallelujah!!!!!!!
and
Amen
or
Awomen
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