| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Sound of Trumpet" |
| Date: |
24 Mar 2007 11:24:05 PM |
| Object: |
The Darwinian Mythos Is A Real Windfall For Swine |
http://www.markshea.blogspot.com/2007_03_01_archive.html#6161286180677841656#6161286180677841656
A reader writes:
Just read this story, and boy has it changed my perspecitve on things.
If the graceful and pure swan can't remain faithful, what chance do
damn dirty apes like us have?
I plan to have a talk with my fiance tonight, just to make sure we can
be mature about infidelity. I wonder why they haven't covered this in
our marriage prep. Cheating: It's natural. Get over it.
Nothing says "American Charttering Class Adolescence" like these
"Behold the French! Our Moral and Intellectual Superiors" pieces. "The
French betray each other. So should we!" would not, however, be a very
fetching headline.
One also has to love the appeal to the Darwinian mythos:
Compared with fellow mammals, only 3 percent of which are monogamous,
we're doing great. And as research in the wild becomes more and more
forensic, even animals we counted in our small alliance for fidelity
have recently been proved fallible. Swans, that elegant emblem of
faithfulness, glided away from the hallowed statistical minority; it
has come to light that they cheat and divorce too. Red-winged
blackbird couples thought to be devoted surprised scientists that had
given vasectomies to the males for population control; the females
kept laying eggs that hatched. Somewhere, there's a blackbird Holiday
Inn with a discreet parking lot.
Say! You know, I guess this means that gang rape is just a discreet
little foible too. After all, ducks do it. And if a few more humans
eat their young? Well, it is done in the animal kingdom you know.
Can't fight those natural impulses.
The Darwinian Mythos is a real windfall for swine. And I don't mean
the four-legged kind.
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| User: "Lisbeth Andersson" |
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| Title: Re: The Darwinian Mythos Is A Real Windfall For Red-winged Blackbird |
25 Mar 2007 05:30:44 AM |
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"Sound of Trumpet" <sound_of_trumpet@warpmail.net> copied some
stuff s/he hasnt read in
news:1174796645.757539.129960@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:
http://www.markshea.blogspot.com/2007_03_01_archive.html#
6161286180677841656#6161286180677841656
Couldn't be bothered to find the original article? Or read it? You
should :-)
That page is hilarious, I want one of those Vatican Board Games.
"The Vatican Board Game
The mind races with the possibilities.
"Your predecessor was a rival and had private heretical opinions.
Exhume his corpse, try it for heresy, dump it in the Tiber, and
advance three spaces.""
And I do wonder if I'm right about the answer on the Pop Quiz For
Catholic High School Sophomores
"One of the quotes below contains profoundly un-Catholic thinking.
Can you a ) circle the non-Catholic quote and b) explain why it is
un-catholic?"
My guess is "2. Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's and
unto God the things that are God's." and b) because it can be found
in the Bible.
A reader writes:
<.....>
Red-winged blackbird couples thought to be
devoted surprised scientists that had given vasectomies to the
males for population control; the females kept laying eggs that
hatched. Somewhere, there's a blackbird Holiday Inn with a
discreet parking lot.
<.....>
Lisbeth.
----
The day I don't learn anything new is the day I die.
*What we know is not nearly as interesting as *how we know it.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "dh" |
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| Title: Re: The Darwinian Mythos Is A Real Windfall For Swine |
25 Mar 2007 03:16:32 AM |
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"Sound of Trumpet" <sound_of_trumpet@warpmail.net> wrote in message
news:1174796645.757539.129960@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
http://www.markshea.blogspot.com/2007_03_01_archive.html#6161286180677841656#6161286180677841656
A reader writes:
Just read this story, and boy has it changed my perspecitve on things.
If the graceful and pure swan can't remain faithful, what chance do
damn dirty apes like us have?
I plan to have a talk with my fiance tonight, just to make sure we can
be mature about infidelity. I wonder why they haven't covered this in
our marriage prep. Cheating: It's natural. Get over it.
[snip]
One also has to love the appeal to the Darwinian mythos:
Compared with fellow mammals, only 3 percent of which are monogamous,
we're doing great. And as research in the wild becomes more and more
[snip]
The Darwinian Mythos is a real windfall for swine. And I don't mean
the four-legged kind.
Dude, I hate to tell you this but infidelity antedates Darwin by however
long homo sapiens has been around. The first books of the Bible have
stories that would embarass a sailor.
The country is full of cheatin' boyfriends, fiancee's and husbands (and the
matching females) that have no idea who Darwin is - but have had plenty of
Bible larnin'.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "Josef Balluch" |
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| Title: Re: The Darwinian Mythos Is A Real Windfall For Swine |
27 Mar 2007 01:04:01 AM |
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In article <1174796645.757539.129960
@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
says...
http://www.markshea.blogspot.com/2007_03_01_archive.html#6161286180677841656#6161286180677841656
Mark Shea, the hypocrite's hypocrite, wants us all to know that he
is bothered by the implications of being a mere animal. He feels
that he is somehow "better" than the rest of the animal kingdom.
That being so, Mr. Shea would do well to reflect on the fact that
none of the other members of the animal kingdom has ever been
observed to be a hypocrite.
Regards,
Josef
Reject your sense of injury and the injury itself disappears.
-- Marcus Aurelius
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: The Darwinian Mythos Is A Real Windfall For Swine |
25 Mar 2007 01:51:30 PM |
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On 24 Mar 2007 21:24:05 -0700 there was an Ancient "Sound of Trumpet"
<sound_of_trumpet@warpmail.net> who stoppeth one in alt.atheism
Just read this story, and boy has it changed my perspecitve on things.
If the graceful and pure swan can't remain faithful, what chance do
damn dirty apes like us have?
I plan to have a talk with my fiance tonight, just to make sure we can
be mature about infidelity. I wonder why they haven't covered this in
our marriage prep. Cheating: It's natural. Get over it.
http://www.polyamory.org/
Way ahead of you here.
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2011
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the
source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a
stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as
good as dead: his eyes are closed." - Albert Einstein
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| User: "djw" |
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| Title: Re: The Darwinian Mythos Is A Real Windfall For Swine |
25 Mar 2007 11:26:52 AM |
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On 24 Mar 2007 21:24:05 -0700, "Sound of Trumpet"
<sound_of_trumpet@warpmail.net> wrote:
http://www.markshea.blogspot.com/2007_03_01_archive.html#6161286180677841656#6161286180677841656
A reader writes:
Just read this story, and boy has it changed my perspecitve on things.
If the graceful and pure swan can't remain faithful, what chance do
damn dirty apes like us have?
I plan to have a talk with my fiance tonight, just to make sure we can
be mature about infidelity. I wonder why they haven't covered this in
our marriage prep. Cheating: It's natural. Get over it.
Nothing says "American Charttering Class Adolescence" like these
"Behold the French! Our Moral and Intellectual Superiors" pieces. "The
French betray each other. So should we!" would not, however, be a very
fetching headline.
One also has to love the appeal to the Darwinian mythos:
Compared with fellow mammals, only 3 percent of which are monogamous,
we're doing great. And as research in the wild becomes more and more
forensic, even animals we counted in our small alliance for fidelity
have recently been proved fallible. Swans, that elegant emblem of
faithfulness, glided away from the hallowed statistical minority; it
has come to light that they cheat and divorce too. Red-winged
blackbird couples thought to be devoted surprised scientists that had
given vasectomies to the males for population control; the females
kept laying eggs that hatched. Somewhere, there's a blackbird Holiday
Inn with a discreet parking lot.
Say! You know, I guess this means that gang rape is just a discreet
little foible too. After all, ducks do it. And if a few more humans
eat their young? Well, it is done in the animal kingdom you know.
Can't fight those natural impulses.
The Darwinian Mythos is a real windfall for swine. And I don't mean
the four-legged kind.
No doubt mate-hopping habits predate civilization and is something
handed down from pre-human and presumably more animal-like and less
intelligent ancestors.
Animals have no use for fidelity in mates because it's usually no
benefit for them. They operate more on instinct and not knowledge and
social networks (synergies of cooperation).
I would imagine early on in the appearance of modern humans, for a
person to secure their genetic future they would need to ensure they
are with someone who will stay and help rear the children (carriers of
their genes). And the longer the better. At least through the
perilous baby years and hopefully through to young adulthood.
In those days if you abandon your mate and child you have no guarantee
another mate won't come along and kill your child in favor of their
own. Remember Cinderalla? They didn't kill her but they actively
reduced her chances for mate success by excluding her from the ball
and generally treating her like a slave (reducing her social status
and mate success chances).
Now that situation's been the reality for probably 200,000 years as
humans became brighter and their bodies more fragile (compared to wild
animals) as a result. They've been forced to rely on such strategies
to the point they became embedded into our social structure.
Over the millenia of human existence and the continual build-up of
social networks to support us agreements about fidelity and life-long
committment have became ubiquitous as all agree that mate relationship
stability increases chances for gene survival in general vs. lack of
stability.
The behaviors which have been honed into us through this have not only
ensured human survival but the survival of complex social constructs
which truly outlive the individuals participating.
To the extent now men and women can bond to a person who does not even
carry their genes and help propogate those genes (adoption &
step-child situations). It benefits all by continuing to develop the
social network which supports us all.
That strategy has been so successful we have now conquered the planet
at least in the realm of large mammals. The difference now is our
social networks are so strong and dominant that humans no longer need
to look to individuals or formal agreements to support them. We now
have states and other non-personal entities which can help someone
ensure their genes survive via their progeny.
So now people can give into their animal urges because sex, like
eating and breathing are natural things we do and if there's no longer
any clear benefit in strict monogomy then why exactly are we adhering
to it?
It appears some of us, at least have come to that conclusion although
there are still some of us old fogies who believe in the benefits of
stable marriage for ours and our children's benefit and the
development of strong local social relationships (marriage, success in
job, church/civic participation, recreational social activities,
etc..) .
All these things can, though no longer a matter of survival as there
are no physical evolutionary pressures on humans in this modern age
but will serve to increase the chances of my descendents having higher
social standing and thereby finding quality mates (hopefully they
marry doctors!!) to carry on the genes and continue to develop the
social safety net, and so on.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: The Darwinian Mythos Is A Real Windfall For Swine |
26 Mar 2007 09:41:47 PM |
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On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 11:26:52 -0500, djw <wells.family@insightbb.com>
wrote:
No doubt mate-hopping habits predate civilization and is something
handed down from pre-human and presumably more animal-like and less
intelligent ancestors.
Animals have no use for fidelity in mates because it's usually no
benefit for them. They operate more on instinct and not knowledge and
social networks (synergies of cooperation).
I would imagine early on in the appearance of modern humans, for a
person to secure their genetic future they would need to ensure they
are with someone who will stay and help rear the children (carriers of
their genes). And the longer the better. At least through the
perilous baby years and hopefully through to young adulthood.
You have evolution completely backwards - it's an end result, not a
motivating force.
In any given species, if monogamy results in more surviving young, the
species becomes more monogamous, simply because those with the genes
that cause them to be monogamous get passed on to more offspring.
Alternatively, if promiscuity results in more surviving young, that
species becomes more promiscuous, simply because those with the genes
that cause them to be promiscuous get passed on to more offspring.
The only amazing thing about Darwin's theory is that, since it's so
simple, no one thought of it before. But we stand on the shoulders of
giants and claim that we can see farther than they could.
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| User: "bramble" |
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| Title: Re: The Darwinian Mythos Is A Real Windfall For Swine |
25 Mar 2007 06:36:11 AM |
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On 25 mar, 05:24, "Sound of Trumpet" <sound_of_trum...@warpmail.net>
wrote:
http://www.markshea.blogspot.com/2007_03_01_archive.html#616128618067...
A reader writes:
Just read this story, and boy has it changed my perspecitve on things.
If the graceful and pure swan can't remain faithful, what chance do
damn dirty apes like us have?
I plan to have a talk with my fiance tonight, just to make sure we can
be mature about infidelity. I wonder why they haven't covered this in
our marriage prep. Cheating: It's natural. Get over it.
Nothing says "American Charttering Class Adolescence" like these
"Behold the French! Our Moral and Intellectual Superiors" pieces. "The
French betray each other. So should we!" would not, however, be a very
fetching headline.
One also has to love the appeal to the Darwinian mythos:
Compared with fellow mammals, only 3 percent of which are monogamous,
we're doing great. And as research in the wild becomes more and more
forensic, even animals we counted in our small alliance for fidelity
have recently been proved fallible. Swans, that elegant emblem of
faithfulness, glided away from the hallowed statistical minority; it
has come to light that they cheat and divorce too. Red-winged
blackbird couples thought to be devoted surprised scientists that had
given vasectomies to the males for population control; the females
kept laying eggs that hatched. Somewhere, there's a blackbird Holiday
Inn with a discreet parking lot.
Say! You know, I guess this means that gang rape is just a discreet
little foible too. After all, ducks do it. And if a few more humans
eat their young? Well, it is done in the animal kingdom you know.
Can't fight those natural impulses.
The Darwinian Mythos is a real windfall for swine. And I don't mean
the four-legged kind.
The analysis of the choice
the trouble with religious minds, is their obsession with uniformity.
All tha marrid humans should be faithful, all the males should be
faitful to their role as males, all the females the same as females,
all the Christians should be faithful to Christ, and the real truth is
only one, and is the one you know and so on.
So we have observed in animals that are rather common the
homosexuality, and the bisexuality. That most of the males in a herd
never would have a chance to mate with females, and they mount one
anonther. Others males are bisexual and mount females in the season
when they are available and mount other males when females are not.
About half of the the males never mount another male, and so on. So
this philosophy trying to decide what is "natural" or "unnatural"
seems to me a little farfetched. And it does not make any sense to
say that we would act only for the purposes we were designed. For all
those males of bighorn, all those males of bufalo, were begotten by
the best and bravest males in the herd. Then, if the behaviour of
these beasts are fixed by the genes, while all those males are
mounting and anal penetrating other males? Or, should we be assuming
that animals had made also a choice? Have they chosen a sinful
lifestyle? Are they going to be burned alife in Hell for an
eternity?
On the other hand, how can we call it a choice, if the females are not
available for sex but for five or six days?
How can we say homosexuality is a choice in men? Are females as
easily available for sex as males, so we can have chose between both
sexes?
What if we someone feel a revulsion at the idea of having sex with a
person of own sex? This person cannot have a choice. He is forced to
wait till he finds a the suitable person to copulate with.
So, =BFwhat happens if the opposite case? If someone feels revulsion at
the idea of having sex with a person of different gender, can he have
a choice?
Now, just consider the so called bisexual person. Can we properly
speak of a choice in the case of a bisexual person? Can we really?
Let's imagine a bisexual in a very horny day. Can he go to a bar and
choose among different females and males that are ready for a bout of
lust copulation? What is easier for a horny male, to found another
male ready to serve his sexual urges, or to find a female ready for
that?
So, if the answer has not doubt, then this bisexual cannot make a
choice. There are not available to him the same options to choose a
male or a female for a bout of lust copulation. So the fundies are
liers, obviously.
Bramble
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: The Right-Wing Mythos Is A Real Windfall For Swine |
25 Mar 2007 01:41:31 AM |
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Sound of Trumpet <sound_of_trumpet@warpmail.net> wrote:
http://www.markshea.blogspot.com/2007_03_01_archive.html#6161286180677841656#6161286180677841656
A reader writes:
Just read this story, and boy has it changed my perspecitve on things.
If the graceful and pure swan can't remain faithful, what chance do
damn dirty apes like us have?
Another twisted creep who hates people. What a surprise. And we
should care what this person says?
I plan to have a talk with my fiance tonight,
Tell her that she's a "damn dirty ape"?
just to make sure we can
be mature about infidelity. I wonder why they haven't covered this in
our marriage prep. Cheating: It's natural. Get over it.
Former fiancee.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "IAAH" |
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| Title: Re: The Darwinian Mythos Is A Real Windfall For Swine |
25 Mar 2007 11:48:07 AM |
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Sound of Trumpet wrote:
http://www.markshea.blogspot.com/2007_03_01_archive.html#6161286180677841656#6161286180677841656
A reader writes:
Just read this story, and boy has it changed my perspecitve on things.
If the graceful and pure swan can't remain faithful, what chance do
damn dirty apes like us have?
Isn't it amazing how it's the ones with the anti-Darwin
blinders on who continually claim an inability to
govern their behaviour with intellect?
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