On 18 Nov 2005 07:58:03 -0800, "Del" <jfacts@earthlink.net> wrote:

Erich Kohl wrote:

If memory serves, I believe she was actually quite pretty. But since
she's a Christian, I doubt I could persuade her into any hanky panky,
since it would obviously be a terrible sin.

Erich! They believe we are all sinners! Remember, they can
get a "get out of sin free" card any time they want to. Of
course you will be less likely to see any action if you
debunk her. But if you choose to, there is a simple way
that avoids all the radiometric dating stuff: Ice core samples:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/icecores.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CH/CH590.html

Here are a bunch o f FAQs regarding the age of earth:

http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-youngearth.html

Good luck

I've been having some conversations with a guy I work with who
believes in a god. He's fairly intelligent and a nice guy, and oddly
enough, he doesn't seem to see me as a sinner, or at least not as much
of a sinner as other die-hard Christians see it. He goes to a
non-denominational church. I'd say as far as believers go, he's
someone I can tolerate, since he's not a fanatic.

He considers me open-minded and thinks I have a lot of good qualities.
He even went on to say that he thinks "God" doesn't want me to be on
the medication I'm on (I take Paxil for depression). He seems to
think that this god is still on my side, even though I lean heavily
toward not believing in him/it.

He thinks it's strange, though, that I don't believe. He even asked
me (and I could tell he was baffled by my skepticism), "What makes you
not believe?" I told him I can think o f more reasons NOT to believe
than TO believe.

He's made some pretty strong claims. He says that I was created not
necessarily by my parents, but by the ongoing process of God himself.
He says that cloning is playing God. He also says that most things
are faith, especially history -- "Have you ever met George
Washington?" he asked. "No, I haven't," I told him, "But history
doesn't make wild assertions about George Washington, like he walked
on water or rose from the dead. There's no thing controversial about
thinking we had a first president. We have one now, we had one before
that, so logic dictates that we had a first one."

And, of course, he says that God is not about logic.

But I refuse to accept that.

Logic does exist, it's a part of life and our minds, and
if logic doesn't fit with what believers say, I believe very strongly
that we must be critical of it.

On 18 Nov 2005 07:58:03 -0800, "Del" <jfacts@earthlink.net> wrote:

Erich Kohl wrote:

If memory serves, I believe she was actually quite pretty. But since
she's a Christian, I doubt I could persuade her into any hanky panky,
since it would obviously be a terrible sin.

Erich! They believe we are all sinners! Remember, they can get a "get out
of sin free" card any time they want to. Of course you will be less
likely to see any action if you debunk her. But if you choose to, there
is a simple way that avoids all the radiometric dating stuff: Ice core
samples:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/icecores.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CH/CH590.html

Here are a bunch of FAQs regarding the age of earth:

http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-youngearth.html

Good luckn

I've been having some conversations with a guy I work with who believes in
a god. He's fairly intelligent and a nice guy, and oddly enough, he
doesn't seem to see me as a sinner, or at least not as much of a sinner as
other die-hard Christians see it. He goes to a non-denominational church.
I'd say as far as believers go, he's someone I can tolerate, since he's
not a fanatic.

He considers me open-minded and thinks I have a lot of good qualities. He
even went on to say that he thinks "God" doesn't want me to be on the
medication I'm on (I take Paxil for depression). He seems to think that
this god is still on my side, even though I lean heavily toward not
believing in him/it.

He thinks it's strange, though, that I don't believe. He even asked me
(and I could tell he was baffled by my skepticism), "What makes you not
believe?" I told him I can think of more reasons NOT to believe than TO
believe.

He's made some pretty strong claims. He says that I was created not
necessarily by my parents, but by the ongoing process of God himself. He
says that cloning is playing God. He also says that most things are
faith, especially history -- "Have you ever met George Washington?" he
asked. "No, I haven't," I told him, "But history doesn't make wild
assertions about George Washington, like he walked on water or rose from
the dead. There's nothing controversial about thinking we had a first
president. We have one now, we had one before that, so logic dictates
that we had a first one."

And, of course, he says that God is not about logic. But I refuse to
accept that. Logic does exist, it's a part of life and our minds, and
if logic doesn't fit with what believers say, I believe very strongly
that we must be critical of it.

On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 12:30:58 GMT, MarkA <manthony@stopspam.net> wrote:

On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 02:54:22 +0000, Erich Kohl wrote:

On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 22:51:43 GMT, MarkA <manthony@stopspam.net> wrote:

On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 16:11:04 +0000, Erich Kohl wrote:

I need some feedback from you guys, my fellow Atheists.

Recently at work (I work in a college computer lab) this female
student overheard myself and my coworkers frequently talk about how
religion is nonsense. She came up to us and assured us that there is
evidence out there indicating that the planet is only about 5,000
years old, which I suppose "proves" to her that the bible/creationism
is true. When I asked her how we are supposed to account for things
like carbon dating, she said that carbon dating has practically been
proven to be meaningless. I wasn't expecting someone to come up and
say all these things; I probably should have asked her more
questions, like how do you account for fossils, dinosaur skeletons,
why "God" creates diseases, etc.

How do you guys respond to this? I'd like to think she's living in a
fantasy world, grabbing little bits of pieces of things she sees and
incorporating them into her belief system in a biased fashion.

If she is good looking, ask her to explain the mysteries of faith to
you over a few drinks. At her place. Does she have a roommate? If
she's ugly, tell her how you think that it's great that cretins can get
into Universities under Affirmative Action, and leave it at that.

If memory serves, I believe she was actually quite pretty. But since
she's a Christian, I doubt I could persuade her into any hanky panky,
since it would obviously be a terrible sin.

Well, you just have to dazzle her with some Old Testament passages, like
when Lot's daughters got him drunk and screwed him. How much of a sin
could it be?

That bible must be one hell of a book! :-)

Tried reading it, but the language frustrates me. "Thou shall have cometh
upon thy kingdom, for he not know whereth salvation lies, blah blah blah."

(Okay, I admit I made that up, but it serves as a typical example.)

Ash wrote:

Del wrote:

stoney wrote:

On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 16:11:04 GMT, Erich Kohl <ekohl@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:

I need some feedback from you guys, my fellow Atheists.

Recently at work (I work in a college computer lab) this female
student overheard myself a nd my coworkers frequently talk about how
religion is nonsense. She came up to us and assured us that there is
evidence out there indicating that the planet is only about 5,000
years old, which I suppose "proves" to her that the bible/creationis m
is true. When I asked her how we are supposed to account for things
like carbon dating, she said that carbon dating has practically been
proven to be meaningless. I wasn't expecting someone to come up and
say all these things; I probably s hould have asked her more questions,
like how do you account for fossils, dinosaur skeletons, why "God"
creates diseases, etc.

How do you guys respond to this?

Say "That's nice, get back to me when you've had a basic education."

Ad hominem, you mean? Why don't you get back to us
when you've had a basic education in logic, stoner?

How is pointing out someone's ignorance ad hominem?

Ad hominem is when you attack the messenger _instead of_ (<- key
words) the message with the intent of discounting the message
thereby. "You are stupid therefore you are wrong" is ad hominem.
"You are wrong, therefore you are stupid" is not.