The Emptying Of Russia - Capitalism Finishes Hitler's And Stalin's Work



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "Armageddon Watch"
Date: 16 Feb 2004 03:03:47 PM
Object: The Emptying Of Russia - Capitalism Finishes Hitler's And Stalin's Work
washingtonpost.com
The Emptying of Russia
By Nicholas Eberstadt
Friday, February 13, 2004; Page A27
Population trends and demographic characteristics in Russia today are
severely -- and adversely -- altering the realm of the possible for
that country and its people. Russian social conditions, economic
potential, military power and international influence are all affected,
and the situation stands only to worsen.
Russia is at the brink of a steep demographic decline -- a peacetime
population hemorrhage framed by a collapse and a catastrophic surge,
respectively, in the birth and death rates. The forces that have shaped
this path of depopulation and debilitation are powerful and by now
deeply rooted in Russian soil. Altering this demographic trajectory
would be a formidable task under any circumstances. Unfortunately,
neither Russia's political leadership nor its voting public have begun
to face up to this enormous challenge.
On New Year's Day 1992 -- one week after the dissolution of the Soviet
Union -- Russia's population was estimated at 148.7 million. As of mid-
2003, according to the Russian State Statistics Committee, the Russian
Federation's population was 144.5 million. This was by no means the
only population loss recorded by any country during that period.
According to estimates and projections by the U.S. Bureau of the
Census, more than a dozen states experienced a population decline
between midyear 1992 and midyear 2003, 10 of these amounting to drops
greater than Russia's 3.1 percent. But unlike some of these drops --
e.g. Bosnia's -- Russia's could not be explained in terms of war and
violent upheaval. In other places, population decline was due entirely
to emigration. Russia, by contrast, absorbed a substantial net influx
of migrants during those years -- a total net addition of more than 5.5
million.
Moreover, continuing population decline -- at a decidedly faster tempo -
- is envisioned for Russia as far as demographers care to project into
the future. The only question is how steep the downward path will be.
The U.S. Census Bureau offers the relatively "optimistic" projection of
a drop of 10 million between 2000 and 2025. The U.N. Population
Division's "medium variant" projection suggests a drop of more than 21
million in that period.
Russia is not, to be sure, the only European country registering more
deaths than births. According to Council of Europe numbers, fully 18
European states currently report "negative natural increase." But in
other European settings, the balance is often still quite close. For
example, in Italy -- the prime example in many current discussions of a
possible depopulation of Europe -- there are today about 103 deaths for
every 100 live births. Russia, by contrast, reports more than 170
deaths for every 100 births.
Russia's abrupt and brutal swerve onto the path to depopulation began
during the final crisis of the Soviet state. Over the two decades
before Mikhail Gorbachev's accession to power in 1985, Russia's births
regularly exceeded deaths. After 1987, however, births began to fall
sharply and death totals to rise.
Russia's current depopulation bears all the trappings of a "demographic
shock," reflecting abrupt and violent changes in the nation's vital
rates in the immediate wake of a momentous, system-shattering, historic
event. This shock is probably not just a temporary disturbance: There
are good reasons to believe that Russia's population trends define a
new norm for that country.
Fertility plummeted from 2.19 in 1986-87 to 1.17 in 1999. (Over the
past several years, fertility has edged up, but only slightly.) Given
how quickly it declined, is it not possible that it would rebound
vigorously in a more favorable political and economic environment? It's
possible, but there are a number of obstacles to such a recovery.
First: Russia's poor and declining overall health patterns extend into
the realm of reproductive health, meaning that involuntary infertility
is a more significant problem for Russia than for Western countries,
and possibly a worsening one. According to some recent reports, 13
percent of Russia's married couples of childbearing age are infertile --
nearly twice the figure for the United States in 1995. Other Russian
sources point to an even greater prevalence of infertility today.
Russian womanhood has been scarred by the country's extraordinary
popular reliance upon abortion as a primary means of contraception --
with the abortions in question conducted under the less-than-exemplary
standards of Soviet and post-Soviet medicine. As one expert (Murray
Feshbach) has noted, "approximately 10 to 20 percent of [Russian] women
become infertile after abortions, according to numerous reports." Add
to this the explosive spread of potentially curable sexually
transmitted infections. According to official figures, the incidence of
syphilis in 2001 was 100 times higher in Russia than in Germany.
Second: Russian patterns of family formation have been evolving
markedly over the past generation -- and not in a direction conducive
to larger families. Simply put, young Russians are now much less likely
to marry -- and ever more likely to divorce if they do. In 2001 Russia
recorded three divorces for every four new marriages.
Third, and perhaps most important: With the end of the Soviet system,
Russia has in some real sense commenced a rejoining with the rest of
Europe -- and in present-day Europe, Russian fertility rates are by no
means aberrant. While Russia's levels tilt toward the lower end of the
European spectrum, they are actually higher than for some other post-
Communist areas whose "transitions" to democracy and market order look
rather more complete (Slovenia, 1.21; Czech Republic, 1.14) -- and are
comparable to the current levels in a number of the established market
democracies of the European Union (Austria, 1.31; Greece, 1.29; Spain,
1.26; Italy, 1.24). Viewed over a longer horizon, Russia's postwar
fertility levels and trends look altogether "European."
But Russia's death rates do not look European at all. Over the four
decades between 1961-62 and 2002, life expectancy at birth in Russia
fell by nearly five years for males; it also declined for females,
though just slightly. Desperately poor health conditions are
distributed with a wretched evenness across the land.
To judge by Russia's (admittedly less than perfect) statistics on cause
of death, nearly all of the increase in mortality rates for men -- and
absolutely all of the increase for women -- can be attributed to an
explosion in deaths related to cardiovascular disease (CVD -- heart
disease plus strokes) and injuries. Between the mid-1960s and the end
of the 20th century, CVD mortality rates in Japan, Western Europe and
North America fell sharply. In Russia between 1965 and 2001, the age-
standardized death rate for CVD surged by 25 percent for women and 65
percent for men. By the dawn of the 21st century, the level of CVD
mortality was of a totally different scale than anything seen in the
West. For working-age people, or those 25 to 64, Ireland reported
Western Europe's highest level of CVD mortality. Russia's was more than
four times Ireland's.
As for mortality attributed to injury -- murder, suicide, traffic,
poisoning and other violent causes -- age-adjusted levels for men and
women alike more than doubled between 1965 and 2001. Among contemporary
societies at peace, Russia's level of violent deaths places the country
practically in a category of its own. For men under 65, the death rate
from injury and poisoning is more than four times that of Finland, the
nation with the worst rate in the EU.
Russia's dismal health record can be explained by a number of things:
pervasive smoking; poor diet, sedentary lifestyles, increasing social
atomization and anomie; the special economic stresses of Russia's
variant of "transition"; and the poor Soviet medical system and the
limited coverage of its successor. At the end of the day, however, it
is impossible to overlook the deadly contribution of the Russian love
affair with vodka.
From the 16th century, when vodka was first introduced to a receptive
public, to the present day, Russians have demonstrated a predilection
to drink heavy spirits in astonishing excess. Russia's thirst for hard
liquor seems to have reached dizzying new heights in the late Soviet
era, and then again in the early era of post-Communism. Heavy drinking
is directly associated with Russia's appallingly high risk of deadly
injury -- and Russia's binge-drinking lifestyle also seems to be
closely associated with death through cardiac failure.
The U.N. Population Division estimates the life expectancy for Russian
men today to be lower than the average for men from the world's "less
developed regions" (i.e., Africa, Asia, Latin America). The country's
lingering health and mortality crisis promises to be a drag on economic
development. In the modern era, the wealth of nations is represented,
increasingly, in human rather than natural resources -- and the richer
the country, the more pronounced the tendency for an entity
called "human capital" to overshadow or replace "physical capital" and
land in the production process. It is difficult to see how Russia can
expect, in some imagined future, to maintain an Irish standard of
living if its workforce suffers an Indian schedule of survival -- or
worse.
As for the effect of population decline on daily life and affairs of
state: In the decades immediately ahead, Russia seems likely to contend
with a sharp falloff in its youth population. Between 1975 and 2000,
the number of young men ages 15 to 24 ranged between 10 million and 13
million. By 2025, on current U.N. projections, the total will be barely
6 million. Apart from the obvious military implications of this
decline, there would be economic and social reverberations. With fewer
young people rising to replace the older retirees graduating from the
Russian workforce, the question of improving (or perhaps maintaining)
the average level of skills and qualifications in the economically
active population would become that much more pressing. And since
younger people the world over tend to be disposed toward and associated
with certain kinds of discovery, innovation and entrepreneurial risk-
taking, a pronounced choking off of younger blood could have real
consequences for Russia's social capabilities and economic
responsiveness.
To the extent that Russian policymakers have concerned themselves with
the country's negative natural increase problem, they have focused
almost entirely on the birthrate -- and how to raise it. Not
surprisingly, this pro-natalist impulse has foundered on the shoals of
finance. In plain terms, raising the birthrate is an expensive
business: especially when the potential parents are educated, urbanized
women accustomed to paying careers. To induce a serious and sustained
increase in childbearing, a government under such circumstances must be
prepared to get into the business of hiring women to be mothers -- and
this is a proposition that could make the funding of a national pension
system look like pin money.
Meanwhile, Russian policy circles persist in treating the country's
horrendous mortality rate with an insouciance verging on indifference.
Authorities have adopted a virtual laissez-faire posture toward the
conditions that lead to "excess mortality" of something like 400,000 of
their citizens each year. President Vladimir Putin -- himself a
teetotaler and exercise enthusiast -- has taken to the podium from time
to time to urge his electorate to engage in sports. But it will take
more than a cheerleader in chief to win Russia's battle against chronic
disease, injury and poisoning (just as it will take more than the four
employees that the entire Ministry of Health reportedly has working on
the country's likely next major health menace, HIV-AIDS, to deal with
that impending crisis).
It seems likely that Russia will become a "normal" Western nation only
when its voting public makes clear that this situation is intolerable
and must be remedied. Only then, one can argue, will Russia's public
servants finally be aroused from their deadly lethargy and mobilize
themselves for this absolutely necessary struggle in defense of the
motherland.
The writer holds the Henry Wendt chair in political economy at the
American Enterprise Institute.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A38176-2004Feb12?language=printer

--
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User: "kirill"

Title: More delayed reaction "journalism" (Re: The Emptying Of Russia -Capitalism Finishes Hitler's And Stalin's Work 16 Feb 2004 09:32:20 PM
Armageddon Watch wrote:


washingtonpost.com

The Emptying of Russia

By Nicholas Eberstadt

Friday, February 13, 2004; Page A27

Population trends and demographic characteristics in Russia today are
severely -- and adversely -- altering the realm of the possible for
that country and its people. Russian social conditions, economic
potential, military power and international influence are all affected,
and the situation stands only to worsen.

Russia is at the brink of a steep demographic decline -- a peacetime

This is as hilarious as the piece of crap in the Atlantic Monthly predicting the
economic collapse of Russia based on events of 1998. Mr. Eberstadt should do
some research on current trends instead of making linear projections from the mid
1990s.
.

User: "Steven James Forsberg"

Title: Re: The Emptying Of Russia - Capitalism Finishes Hitler's And Stalin's Work 17 Feb 2004 02:04:13 AM
B
: Authorities have adopted a virtual laissez-faire posture toward the
: conditions that lead to "excess mortality" of something like 400,000 of
: their citizens each year. President Vladimir Putin -- himself a
: teetotaler and exercise enthusiast -- has taken to the podium from time
: to time to urge his electorate to engage in sports. But it will take
:I
: The writer holds the Henry Wendt chair in political economy at the
: American Enterprise Institute.
The article makes several good points, but I can not help bu
be struck by the irony of someone from the American Enterprise
Institute seeming to criticize a Russian government for NOT interfering
more decisively with the lives of its citizens. :-)
Bad diet, sedentary lifestyle, alcholhol problems -- these are
certainly not unkown problems to the U.S. though our superior healthcare
system helps to mask the effects. Yet the implication of this article
seems to be that the Russian government should somehow intervene in
the lifestyle choices of its citizens. Mandatory physical training?
High taxes on 'junk' food? Prohibition? What is the government supposed
to do about these problems?
I'm not really criticizing, just pointing out the apparent
contradiction between a traditional desire for "free markets and less
government interference" with the notion that the government needs to
ensure that people live "properly". The U.S. also faces demographic
issues, but the idea of government intervention (even just halting
illegal immigration) is very controversial.
regards,
--------------------------------------------------------------
sjforsbe@bayou.uh.edu
.
User: "--= Ö§âmâ ßíñ Këñ0ßí =--"

Title: Re: The Emptying Of Russia - Capitalism Finishes Hitler's And Stalin's Work 19 Feb 2004 05:17:19 PM
A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, Steven James Forsberg
<sjforsbe@bayou.uh.edu> wrote:

The article makes several good points, but I can not help bu
be struck by the irony of someone from the American Enterprise
Institute seeming to criticize a Russian government for NOT interfering
more decisively with the lives of its citizens. :-)
Bad diet, sedentary lifestyle, alcholhol problems -- these are
certainly not unkown problems to the U.S. though our superior healthcare
system helps to mask the effects.

You mean Amerika's superior PR department.
--
--=( Ö§âmâ ßíñ Këñ0ßí )=----- ----- --- - -
Rebel Alliance Galactic Usenet News Service
--- --- ---=================----------- - -
http://www.mingthemerciless.com/atat.html
.


User: "W.Syme"

Title: Re: The Emptying Of Russia - Capitalism Finishes Hitler's And Stalin's Work 16 Feb 2004 10:06:45 PM
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:03:47 GMT,
u358673095@spawnkill.ip-mobilphone.net (Armageddon Watch) wrote:



washingtonpost.com


Why did you crosspost this to alt.atheism? What does this have to do
with atheism?
--
==I am an atheist==
.
User: "Stinky Pete"

Title: Re: The Emptying Of Russia - Capitalism Finishes Hitler's And Stalin's Work 17 Feb 2004 07:39:45 AM
"W.Syme" <W.Syme.killspam@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:8a0607a45d5f487315a32f72e2d9c679@news.teranews.com...

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:03:47 GMT,
u358673095@spawnkill.ip-mobilphone.net (Armageddon Watch) wrote:



washingtonpost.com



Why did you crosspost this to alt.atheism? What does this have to do
with atheism?

Yeah! Tell them that God will punish them for that crosspost!


--
==I am an atheist==

.

User: "The Black Monk"

Title: Re: The Emptying Of Russia - Capitalism Finishes Hitler's And Stalin's Work 17 Feb 2004 12:56:35 PM
W.Syme <W.Syme.killspam@hotpop.com> wrote in message news:<8a0607a45d5f487315a32f72e2d9c679@news.teranews.com>...

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:03:47 GMT,
u358673095@spawnkill.ip-mobilphone.net (Armageddon Watch) wrote:



washingtonpost.com



Why did you crosspost this to alt.atheism? What does this have to do
with atheism?

Simple. The more atheistic the society, the lower the birthrate.
BM
.
User: "Captain!"

Title: Re: The Emptying Of Russia - Capitalism Finishes Hitler's And Stalin's Work 17 Feb 2004 02:53:15 PM
"The Black Monk" <cherniymonakh@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c21219d5.0402171056.24f99a0b@posting.google.com...

W.Syme <W.Syme.killspam@hotpop.com> wrote in message

news:<8a0607a45d5f487315a32f72e2d9c679@news.teranews.com>...

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:03:47 GMT,
u358673095@spawnkill.ip-mobilphone.net (Armageddon Watch) wrote:



washingtonpost.com



Why did you crosspost this to alt.atheism? What does this have to do
with atheism?


Simple. The more atheistic the society, the lower the birthrate.

BM

interesting. atheistic countries also tend to be more educated in birth
control.
.

User: "AnimaMinima"

Title: Re: The Emptying Of Russia - Capitalism Finishes Hitler's And Stalin's Work 17 Feb 2004 04:51:12 PM
(The Black Monk) wrote in message news:<c21219d5.0402171056.24f99a0b@posting.google.com>...

W.Syme <W.Syme.killspam@hotpop.com> wrote in message news:<8a0607a45d5f487315a32f72e2d9c679@news.teranews.com>...

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:03:47 GMT,
u358673095@spawnkill.ip-mobilphone.net (Armageddon Watch) wrote:



washingtonpost.com



Why did you crosspost this to alt.atheism? What does this have to do
with atheism?


Simple. The more atheistic the society, the lower the birthrate.

I knew there had to be something good about it.
But I thought the Russians were all religious now?
.
User: "The Black Monk"

Title: Re: The Emptying Of Russia - Capitalism Finishes Hitler's And Stalin's Work 17 Feb 2004 08:23:29 PM
(AnimaMinima) wrote in message news:<2776796e.0402171451.581b69ca@posting.google.com>...

cherniymonakh@hotmail.com (The Black Monk) wrote in message news:<c21219d5.0402171056.24f99a0b@posting.google.com>...

W.Syme <W.Syme.killspam@hotpop.com> wrote in message news:<8a0607a45d5f487315a32f72e2d9c679@news.teranews.com>...

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:03:47 GMT,
u358673095@spawnkill.ip-mobilphone.net (Armageddon Watch) wrote:



washingtonpost.com



Why did you crosspost this to alt.atheism? What does this have to do
with atheism?


Simple. The more atheistic the society, the lower the birthrate.



I knew there had to be something good about it.
But I thought the Russians were all religious now?

They are slowly disgarding the Western poison, and birthrates are rising.
BM
.
User: "Stinky Pete"

Title: Re: The Emptying Of Russia - Capitalism Finishes Hitler's And Stalin's Work 18 Feb 2004 06:07:44 AM
"The Black Monk" <cherniymonakh@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c21219d5.0402171823.4754965@posting.google.com...

animaminima@yahoo.com (AnimaMinima) wrote in message

news:<2776796e.0402171451.581b69ca@posting.google.com>...

cherniymonakh@hotmail.com (The Black Monk) wrote in message

news:<c21219d5.0402171056.24f99a0b@posting.google.com>...


W.Syme <W.Syme.killspam@hotpop.com> wrote in message

news:<8a0607a45d5f487315a32f72e2d9c679@news.teranews.com>...

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:03:47 GMT,
u358673095@spawnkill.ip-mobilphone.net (Armageddon Watch) wrote:



washingtonpost.com



Why did you crosspost this to alt.atheism? What does this have to do
with atheism?


Simple. The more atheistic the society, the lower the birthrate.



I knew there had to be something good about it.
But I thought the Russians were all religious now?


They are slowly disgarding the Western poison, and birthrates are rising.

BM

I didn't know that vodka was "western"?
.
User: "torresD"

Title: Re: The Emptying Of Russia - Capitalism Finishes Hitler's And Stalin's Work 18 Feb 2004 02:41:35 PM
"They called us 'sausage immigrants'
in Israel,
as if we were just looking for a handout,"
says Joseph Krongauz,
a 73-year-old construction consultant
who went to Israel with his wife in 1995.
http://www.canada.com/news/world/story.html?id=6BB7022F-0262-4517-AA16-E438EA4D4E23
FRED WEIR
Canadian Press
Monday, February 16, 2004
MOSCOW (CP) -
Oleg Khait fled the Soviet Union in
1990 seeking a better life and safe
haven as a Jew in Israel.
Today he says he's found
what he was looking for -
back in Russia.
"The whole family wanted to come back to Russia,"
says the 43-year-old language teacher who
says he's amazed at how Moscow is booming
with new business, intellectual and cultural activity.
"Israel is fine but we always
felt like outsiders there."
Despite increasing terrorism in Russia,
including the subway bombing in Moscow
earlier this month that killed 39 people,
he says
"we are sure coming back was the right decision."
Khait and his family are among the estimated
50,000 former Soviet Jews who've decided to
return in recent years, driven not only by
economic crisis and security nightmare in
Israel but also by unexpected social stability
and fresh opportunities opening up in Russia.
It's not quite a flood,
but the surge of reverse emigration
has raised hopes among some community
activists that the historic Jewish
presence in Russia may not be ending.
At a recent Kremlin meeting,
Russia's chief Rabbi Berl Lazar
told President Vladimir Putin that
"Jewish life is once again
on the rise in Russia."
"Jews are discovering that they
can stay here and live at the same
level as anywhere else in the world," he said.
The number of Jews in Russia plummeted
from 540,000 to just 230,000 between
the censuses of 1989 and 2002,
as Jews seized upon the Soviet
breakdown as a chance to get out.
Many of those who left the U.S.S.R.
and early post-Soviet Russia recall
being exhausted with economic hardship
and terrified that traditional Russian
anti-Semitism might erupt into
anti-Jewish pogroms.
But life in Israel presented
other kinds of difficulties.
"They called us 'sausage immigrants'
in Israel,
as if we were just looking for a handout,"
says Joseph Krongauz,
a 73-year-old construction consultant
who went to Israel with his wife in 1995.
Though the couple never learned to speak Hebrew,
he says there were few problems adapting.
"All the shops around our
home in Tel Aviv were Russian;
we socialized mainly with
Russians," he says.
But finding work was impossible.
The Israeli government cut social
benefits and the security situation grew more tense.
"The young manage well,
but it's awfully hard for
middle-aged people to feel at
home in Israel or to find work
in their own professions," he says.
Krongauz decided to return to Russia
after former colleagues in Moscow called
and offered him a consulting position
three years ago.
"Now I'm back,
working at a great job
and never been happier,"
he says.
"It's wonderful to feel needed at my age."
While Israel plunged into economic recession
and has been rocked by escalating terrorism
over the last three years,
Russia has seen a long spurt of
economic growth and rising national
confidence under Putin.
Sergei Barabash, 28,
a computer programmer who emigrated
to Israel as a teenager in 1990,
says he decided to return to Russia
after visiting Moscow as a tourist
recently.
"I realized this was not the country I left," he says.
"It's much more interesting here.
I'm not saying I've made
up my mind permanently,
but I'm going to give
Russia a try."
Some experts argue that the
back-and-forth movements of
ex-Soviet Jews are simply a
tribute to the freedom and
mobility of the post-Iron
Curtain world.
"There are no borders any more,
so people can come to Russia to
get educated, start businesses or whatever,"
says Semyon Dovzhik,
press secretary for the Jewish Agency in Moscow,
which encourages Russian Jews to emigrate to Israel.
"We can't say this is a really big problem."
Zinovy Kogan,
rabbi at Moscow's Poklonnaya Gora Synagogue,
says many recent returnees have come to him
with conflicted emotions.
"They want to be Jews and feel
guilty that they've left Israel," he says.
"Our task here is to make them feel
comfortable with their choices and
help them regain their Russian
sense of Jewishness."
"These people have had a long journey," he says.
"They left the U.S.S.R. as Jews,
but arrived in Israel as Russians.
Now they must get used to the idea
that here they will be called Jews
again, not Russians."
But he insists the trend is a hopeful one.
"Jews have lived for centuries in Russia,
and through all this time managed to preserve
and develop their culture," he says.
"It shows great strength for them to
come back here, and express their
freedom in Russia."
.
User: "Passerby"

Title: Re: The Emptying Of Russia - Capitalism Finishes Hitler's And Stalin's Work 18 Feb 2004 06:33:57 PM
Well, 5% are always complaining about something.
The remaining 95% are quite satisfied.
A tremendous success!
Great job, Israel!!!
"torresD" <torresD30@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:36QYb.10197$W74.1463@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...



"They called us 'sausage immigrants'
in Israel,

as if we were just looking for a handout,"

says Joseph Krongauz,
a 73-year-old construction consultant
who went to Israel with his wife in 1995.

http://www.canada.com/news/world/story.html?id=6BB7022F-0262-4517-AA16-E438E
A4D4E23

FRED WEIR
Canadian Press

Monday, February 16, 2004

MOSCOW (CP) -

Oleg Khait fled the Soviet Union in
1990 seeking a better life and safe
haven as a Jew in Israel.

Today he says he's found
what he was looking for -
back in Russia.

"The whole family wanted to come back to Russia,"

says the 43-year-old language teacher who
says he's amazed at how Moscow is booming
with new business, intellectual and cultural activity.

"Israel is fine but we always
felt like outsiders there."

Despite increasing terrorism in Russia,
including the subway bombing in Moscow
earlier this month that killed 39 people,
he says

"we are sure coming back was the right decision."

Khait and his family are among the estimated
50,000 former Soviet Jews who've decided to
return in recent years, driven not only by
economic crisis and security nightmare in
Israel but also by unexpected social stability
and fresh opportunities opening up in Russia.

It's not quite a flood,
but the surge of reverse emigration
has raised hopes among some community
activists that the historic Jewish
presence in Russia may not be ending.

At a recent Kremlin meeting,
Russia's chief Rabbi Berl Lazar
told President Vladimir Putin that

"Jewish life is once again
on the rise in Russia."

"Jews are discovering that they
can stay here and live at the same
level as anywhere else in the world," he said.

The number of Jews in Russia plummeted
from 540,000 to just 230,000 between
the censuses of 1989 and 2002,
as Jews seized upon the Soviet
breakdown as a chance to get out.

Many of those who left the U.S.S.R.
and early post-Soviet Russia recall
being exhausted with economic hardship
and terrified that traditional Russian
anti-Semitism might erupt into
anti-Jewish pogroms.

But life in Israel presented
other kinds of difficulties.

"They called us 'sausage immigrants'
in Israel,

as if we were just looking for a handout,"

says Joseph Krongauz,
a 73-year-old construction consultant
who went to Israel with his wife in 1995.

Though the couple never learned to speak Hebrew,
he says there were few problems adapting.

"All the shops around our
home in Tel Aviv were Russian;
we socialized mainly with
Russians," he says.

But finding work was impossible.

The Israeli government cut social
benefits and the security situation grew more tense.


"The young manage well,
but it's awfully hard for
middle-aged people to feel at
home in Israel or to find work
in their own professions," he says.

Krongauz decided to return to Russia
after former colleagues in Moscow called
and offered him a consulting position
three years ago.

"Now I'm back,
working at a great job
and never been happier,"

he says.

"It's wonderful to feel needed at my age."

While Israel plunged into economic recession
and has been rocked by escalating terrorism
over the last three years,

Russia has seen a long spurt of
economic growth and rising national
confidence under Putin.

Sergei Barabash, 28,
a computer programmer who emigrated
to Israel as a teenager in 1990,
says he decided to return to Russia
after visiting Moscow as a tourist
recently.

"I realized this was not the country I left," he says.

"It's much more interesting here.

I'm not saying I've made
up my mind permanently,
but I'm going to give
Russia a try."

Some experts argue that the
back-and-forth movements of
ex-Soviet Jews are simply a
tribute to the freedom and
mobility of the post-Iron
Curtain world.

"There are no borders any more,
so people can come to Russia to
get educated, start businesses or whatever,"

says Semyon Dovzhik,
press secretary for the Jewish Agency in Moscow,
which encourages Russian Jews to emigrate to Israel.

"We can't say this is a really big problem."

Zinovy Kogan,
rabbi at Moscow's Poklonnaya Gora Synagogue,
says many recent returnees have come to him
with conflicted emotions.

"They want to be Jews and feel
guilty that they've left Israel," he says.

"Our task here is to make them feel
comfortable with their choices and
help them regain their Russian
sense of Jewishness."

"These people have had a long journey," he says.

"They left the U.S.S.R. as Jews,
but arrived in Israel as Russians.

Now they must get used to the idea
that here they will be called Jews
again, not Russians."

But he insists the trend is a hopeful one.

"Jews have lived for centuries in Russia,
and through all this time managed to preserve
and develop their culture," he says.

"It shows great strength for them to
come back here, and express their
freedom in Russia."












.
User: "YULKA"

Title: Re: The Emptying Of Russia - Capitalism Finishes Hitler's And Stalin's Work 18 Feb 2004 09:01:33 PM
"Passerby" <p_a_s_s_e_r_b_y@skynet.net> wrote in message
news:VvTYb.18181$%d3.1833057@twister.southeast.rr.com...

Well, 5% are always complaining about something.
The remaining 95% are quite satisfied.
A tremendous success!
Great job, Israel!!!


Yehright, stealing Semite (Arab) land.

And stealing White people from Europe.
A Great Job indeed!



"torresD" <torresD30@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:36QYb.10197$W74.1463@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...



"They called us 'sausage immigrants'
in Israel,

as if we were just looking for a handout,"

says Joseph Krongauz,
a 73-year-old construction consultant
who went to Israel with his wife in 1995.


http://www.canada.com/news/world/story.html?id=6BB7022F-0262-4517-AA16-E438E

A4D4E23

FRED WEIR
Canadian Press

Monday, February 16, 2004

MOSCOW (CP) -

Oleg Khait fled the Soviet Union in
1990 seeking a better life and safe
haven as a Jew in Israel.

Today he says he's found
what he was looking for -
back in Russia.

"The whole family wanted to come back to Russia,"

says the 43-year-old language teacher who
says he's amazed at how Moscow is booming
with new business, intellectual and cultural activity.

"Israel is fine but we always
felt like outsiders there."

Despite increasing terrorism in Russia,
including the subway bombing in Moscow
earlier this month that killed 39 people,
he says

"we are sure coming back was the right decision."

Khait and his family are among the estimated
50,000 former Soviet Jews who've decided to
return in recent years, driven not only by
economic crisis and security nightmare in
Israel but also by unexpected social stability
and fresh opportunities opening up in Russia.

It's not quite a flood,
but the surge of reverse emigration
has raised hopes among some community
activists that the historic Jewish
presence in Russia may not be ending.

At a recent Kremlin meeting,
Russia's chief Rabbi Berl Lazar
told President Vladimir Putin that

"Jewish life is once again
on the rise in Russia."

"Jews are discovering that they
can stay here and live at the same
level as anywhere else in the world," he said.

The number of Jews in Russia plummeted
from 540,000 to just 230,000 between
the censuses of 1989 and 2002,
as Jews seized upon the Soviet
breakdown as a chance to get out.

Many of those who left the U.S.S.R.
and early post-Soviet Russia recall
being exhausted with economic hardship
and terrified that traditional Russian
anti-Semitism might erupt into
anti-Jewish pogroms.

But life in Israel presented
other kinds of difficulties.

"They called us 'sausage immigrants'
in Israel,

as if we were just looking for a handout,"

says Joseph Krongauz,
a 73-year-old construction consultant
who went to Israel with his wife in 1995.

Though the couple never learned to speak Hebrew,
he says there were few problems adapting.

"All the shops around our
home in Tel Aviv were Russian;
we socialized mainly with
Russians," he says.

But finding work was impossible.

The Israeli government cut social
benefits and the security situation grew more tense.


"The young manage well,
but it's awfully hard for
middle-aged people to feel at
home in Israel or to find work
in their own professions," he says.

Krongauz decided to return to Russia
after former colleagues in Moscow called
and offered him a consulting position
three years ago.

"Now I'm back,
working at a great job
and never been happier,"

he says.

"It's wonderful to feel needed at my age."

While Israel plunged into economic recession
and has been rocked by escalating terrorism
over the last three years,

Russia has seen a long spurt of
economic growth and rising national
confidence under Putin.

Sergei Barabash, 28,
a computer programmer who emigrated
to Israel as a teenager in 1990,
says he decided to return to Russia
after visiting Moscow as a tourist
recently.

"I realized this was not the country I left," he says.

"It's much more interesting here.

I'm not saying I've made
up my mind permanently,
but I'm going to give
Russia a try."

Some experts argue that the
back-and-forth movements of
ex-Soviet Jews are simply a
tribute to the freedom and
mobility of the post-Iron
Curtain world.

"There are no borders any more,
so people can come to Russia to
get educated, start businesses or whatever,"

says Semyon Dovzhik,
press secretary for the Jewish Agency in Moscow,
which encourages Russian Jews to emigrate to Israel.

"We can't say this is a really big problem."

Zinovy Kogan,
rabbi at Moscow's Poklonnaya Gora Synagogue,
says many recent returnees have come to him
with conflicted emotions.

"They want to be Jews and feel
guilty that they've left Israel," he says.

"Our task here is to make them feel
comfortable with their choices and
help them regain their Russian
sense of Jewishness."

"These people have had a long journey," he says.

"They left the U.S.S.R. as Jews,
but arrived in Israel as Russians.

Now they must get used to the idea
that here they will be called Jews
again, not Russians."

But he insists the trend is a hopeful one.

"Jews have lived for centuries in Russia,
and through all this time managed to preserve
and develop their culture," he says.

"It shows great strength for them to
come back here, and express their
freedom in Russia."














.
User: "Passerby"

Title: Re: The Emptying Of Russia - Capitalism Finishes Hitler's And Stalin's Work 18 Feb 2004 09:25:48 PM
You see, the thing is that unlike egyptians and syrian arabs , Jews,
"russian" and otherwise have a deed to this land. It is translated to about
150 languages and printed in several billions of copies. Unlike you, your
mooslime friends are aware of this because they stole it and rewrote it into
their holy book.
"YULKA" <jpetkov@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:hGVYb.65921$Wa.39863@news-server.bigpond.net.au...


"Passerby" <p_a_s_s_e_r_b_y@skynet.net> wrote in message
news:VvTYb.18181$%d3.1833057@twister.southeast.rr.com...

Well, 5% are always complaining about something.
The remaining 95% are quite satisfied.
A tremendous success!
Great job, Israel!!!


Yehright, stealing Semite (Arab) land.

And stealing White people from Europe.
A Great Job indeed!



"torresD" <torresD30@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:36QYb.10197$W74.1463@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...



"They called us 'sausage immigrants'
in Israel,

as if we were just looking for a handout,"

says Joseph Krongauz,
a 73-year-old construction consultant
who went to Israel with his wife in 1995.



http://www.canada.com/news/world/story.html?id=6BB7022F-0262-4517-AA16-E438E

A4D4E23

FRED WEIR
Canadian Press

Monday, February 16, 2004

MOSCOW (CP) -

Oleg Khait fled the Soviet Union in
1990 seeking a better life and safe
haven as a Jew in Israel.

Today he says he's found
what he was looking for -
back in Russia.

"The whole family wanted to come back to Russia,"

says the 43-year-old language teacher who
says he's amazed at how Moscow is booming
with new business, intellectual and cultural activity.

"Israel is fine but we always
felt like outsiders there."

Despite increasing terrorism in Russia,
including the subway bombing in Moscow
earlier this month that killed 39 people,
he says

"we are sure coming back was the right decision."

Khait and his family are among the estimated
50,000 former Soviet Jews who've decided to
return in recent years, driven not only by
economic crisis and security nightmare in
Israel but also by unexpected social stability
and fresh opportunities opening up in Russia.

It's not quite a flood,
but the surge of reverse emigration
has raised hopes among some community
activists that the historic Jewish
presence in Russia may not be ending.

At a recent Kremlin meeting,
Russia's chief Rabbi Berl Lazar
told President Vladimir Putin that

"Jewish life is once again
on the rise in Russia."

"Jews are discovering that they
can stay here and live at the same
level as anywhere else in the world," he said.

The number of Jews in Russia plummeted
from 540,000 to just 230,000 between
the censuses of 1989 and 2002,
as Jews seized upon the Soviet
breakdown as a chance to get out.

Many of those who left the U.S.S.R.
and early post-Soviet Russia recall
being exhausted with economic hardship
and terrified that traditional Russian
anti-Semitism might erupt into
anti-Jewish pogroms.

But life in Israel presented
other kinds of difficulties.

"They called us 'sausage immigrants'
in Israel,

as if we were just looking for a handout,"

says Joseph Krongauz,
a 73-year-old construction consultant
who went to Israel with his wife in 1995.

Though the couple never learned to speak Hebrew,
he says there were few problems adapting.

"All the shops around our
home in Tel Aviv were Russian;
we socialized mainly with
Russians," he says.

But finding work was impossible.

The Israeli government cut social
benefits and the security situation grew more tense.


"The young manage well,
but it's awfully hard for
middle-aged people to feel at
home in Israel or to find work
in their own professions," he says.

Krongauz decided to return to Russia
after former colleagues in Moscow called
and offered him a consulting position
three years ago.

"Now I'm back,
working at a great job
and never been happier,"

he says.

"It's wonderful to feel needed at my age."

While Israel plunged into economic recession
and has been rocked by escalating terrorism
over the last three years,

Russia has seen a long spurt of
economic growth and rising national
confidence under Putin.

Sergei Barabash, 28,
a computer programmer who emigrated
to Israel as a teenager in 1990,
says he decided to return to Russia
after visiting Moscow as a tourist
recently.

"I realized this was not the country I left," he says.

"It's much more interesting here.

I'm not saying I've made
up my mind permanently,
but I'm going to give
Russia a try."

Some experts argue that the
back-and-forth movements of
ex-Soviet Jews are simply a
tribute to the freedom and
mobility of the post-Iron
Curtain world.

"There are no borders any more,
so people can come to Russia to
get educated, start businesses or whatever,"

says Semyon Dovzhik,
press secretary for the Jewish Agency in Moscow,
which encourages Russian Jews to emigrate to Israel.

"We can't say this is a really big problem."

Zinovy Kogan,
rabbi at Moscow's Poklonnaya Gora Synagogue,
says many recent returnees have come to him
with conflicted emotions.

"They want to be Jews and feel
guilty that they've left Israel," he says.

"Our task here is to make them feel
comfortable with their choices and
help them regain their Russian
sense of Jewishness."

"These people have had a long journey," he says.

"They left the U.S.S.R. as Jews,
but arrived in Israel as Russians.

Now they must get used to the idea
that here they will be called Jews
again, not Russians."

But he insists the trend is a hopeful one.

"Jews have lived for centuries in Russia,
and through all this time managed to preserve
and develop their culture," he says.

"It shows great strength for them to
come back here, and express their
freedom in Russia."
















.
User: "YULKA"

Title: Re: The Emptying Of Russia - Capitalism Finishes Hitler's And Stalin's Work 19 Feb 2004 01:48:03 AM
OK, but wouldn't you think that the majority of the people who migrated to
Israel, have very little if anything to do with those people mentioned in
the Old Testament?
I mean, even if we assume this land belongs to the Jews exclusively, by
virtue of Mythology, can you find non-White Jews to restore the original?
From my prospective Judaism is a religion and no longer denotes ethnicity or
race!
Or it will be ridiculous to send Anglo-Saxons like Michael York and the
likes, back to the Promised Land, don't you agree?
"Passerby" <p_a_s_s_e_r_b_y@skynet.net> wrote in message
news:01WYb.18564$%d3.1868696@twister.southeast.rr.com...

You see, the thing is that unlike egyptians and syrian arabs , Jews,
"russian" and otherwise have a deed to this land. It is translated to

about

150 languages and printed in several billions of copies. Unlike you, your
mooslime friends are aware of this because they stole it and rewrote it

into

their holy book.


"YULKA" <jpetkov@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:hGVYb.65921$Wa.39863@news-server.bigpond.net.au...


"Passerby" <p_a_s_s_e_r_b_y@skynet.net> wrote in message
news:VvTYb.18181$%d3.1833057@twister.southeast.rr.com...

Well, 5% are always complaining about something.
The remaining 95% are quite satisfied.
A tremendous success!
Great job, Israel!!!


Yehright, stealing Semite (Arab) land.

And stealing White people from Europe.
A Great Job indeed!



"torresD" <torresD30@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:36QYb.10197$W74.1463@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...



"They called us 'sausage immigrants'
in Israel,

as if we were just looking for a handout,"

says Joseph Krongauz,
a 73-year-old construction consultant
who went to Israel with his wife in 1995.




http://www.canada.com/news/world/story.html?id=6BB7022F-0262-4517-AA16-E438E

A4D4E23

FRED WEIR
Canadian Press

Monday, February 16, 2004

MOSCOW (CP) -

Oleg Khait fled the Soviet Union in
1990 seeking a better life and safe
haven as a Jew in Israel.

Today he says he's found
what he was looking for -
back in Russia.

"The whole family wanted to come back to Russia,"

says the 43-year-old language teacher who
says he's amazed at how Moscow is booming
with new business, intellectual and cultural activity.

"Israel is fine but we always
felt like outsiders there."

Despite increasing terrorism in Russia,
including the subway bombing in Moscow
earlier this month that killed 39 people,
he says

"we are sure coming back was the right decision."

Khait and his family are among the estimated
50,000 former Soviet Jews who've decided to
return in recent years, driven not only by
economic crisis and security nightmare in
Israel but also by unexpected social stability
and fresh opportunities opening up in Russia.

It's not quite a flood,
but the surge of reverse emigration
has raised hopes among some community
activists that the historic Jewish
presence in Russia may not be ending.

At a recent Kremlin meeting,
Russia's chief Rabbi Berl Lazar
told President Vladimir Putin that

"Jewish life is once again
on the rise in Russia."

"Jews are discovering that they
can stay here and live at the same
level as anywhere else in the world," he said.

The number of Jews in Russia plummeted
from 540,000 to just 230,000 between
the censuses of 1989 and 2002,
as Jews seized upon the Soviet
breakdown as a chance to get out.

Many of those who left the U.S.S.R.
and early post-Soviet Russia recall
being exhausted with economic hardship
and terrified that traditional Russian
anti-Semitism might erupt into
anti-Jewish pogroms.

But life in Israel presented
other kinds of difficulties.

"They called us 'sausage immigrants'
in Israel,

as if we were just looking for a handout,"

says Joseph Krongauz,
a 73-year-old construction consultant
who went to Israel with his wife in 1995.

Though the couple never learned to speak Hebrew,
he says there were few problems adapting.

"All the shops around our
home in Tel Aviv were Russian;
we socialized mainly with
Russians," he says.

But finding work was impossible.

The Israeli government cut social
benefits and the security situation grew more tense.


"The young manage well,
but it's awfully hard for
middle-aged people to feel at
home in Israel or to find work
in their own professions," he says.

Krongauz decided to return to Russia
after former colleagues in Moscow called
and offered him a consulting position
three years ago.

"Now I'm back,
working at a great job
and never been happier,"

he says.

"It's wonderful to feel needed at my age."

While Israel plunged into economic recession
and has been rocked by escalating terrorism
over the last three years,

Russia has seen a long spurt of
economic growth and rising national
confidence under Putin.

Sergei Barabash, 28,
a computer programmer who emigrated
to Israel as a teenager in 1990,
says he decided to return to Russia
after visiting Moscow as a tourist
recently.

"I realized this was not the country I left," he says.

"It's much more interesting here.

I'm not saying I've made
up my mind permanently,
but I'm going to give
Russia a try."

Some experts argue that the
back-and-forth movements of
ex-Soviet Jews are simply a
tribute to the freedom and
mobility of the post-Iron
Curtain world.

"There are no borders any more,
so people can come to Russia to
get educated, start businesses or whatever,"

says Semyon Dovzhik,
press secretary for the Jewish Agency in Moscow,
which encourages Russian Jews to emigrate to Israel.

"We can't say this is a really big problem."

Zinovy Kogan,
rabbi at Moscow's Poklonnaya Gora Synagogue,
says many recent returnees have come to him
with conflicted emotions.

"They want to be Jews and feel
guilty that they've left Israel," he says.

"Our task here is to make them feel
comfortable with their choices and
help them regain their Russian
sense of Jewishness."

"These people have had a long journey," he says.

"They left the U.S.S.R. as Jews,
but arrived in Israel as Russians.

Now they must get used to the idea
that here they will be called Jews
again, not Russians."

But he insists the trend is a hopeful one.

"Jews have lived for centuries in Russia,
and through all this time managed to preserve
and develop their culture," he says.

"It shows great strength for them to
come back here, and express their
freedom in Russia."


















.
User: "AnimaMinima"

Title: Re: The Emptying Of Russia - Capitalism Finishes Hitler's And Stalin's Work 19 Feb 2004 09:34:07 AM
"YULKA" <jpetkov@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message news:<TSZYb.66191$Wa.11105@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...

OK, but wouldn't you think that the majority of the people who migrated to
Israel, have very little if anything to do with those people mentioned in
the Old Testament?



I mean, even if we assume this land belongs to the Jews exclusively, by
virtue of Mythology, can you find non-White Jews to restore the original?



From my prospective Judaism is a religion and no longer denotes ethnicity or
race!

Or it will be ridiculous to send Anglo-Saxons like Michael York and the
likes, back to the Promised Land, don't you agree?

If you say Israel is a racial state, i.e. Zionism is racism, you
will take a lot of heat from Zionists. On the other hand, the
theory that Jews have a right to the territory of Palestine
based on their ancestry does seem to be a racial argument. So
you can have it both ways at once, I guess.
As icing on the cake there is a theory that most of the Ashkenazim
are descended from Khazars and other central Asian peoples who
converted to Judaism during the Middle Ages.
In all this nobody is showing any birth certificates as far
as I know.
.

User: "Passerby"

Title: Re: The Emptying Of Russia - Capitalism Finishes Hitler's And Stalin's Work 19 Feb 2004 06:41:01 AM
Bull. We were always very reluctant to admit converts. 90% of the Jews,
yours truly included, can trace the lineage to the days of the Temple. Can
you trace your lineage as far as to your mother's husband? If you, slavs,
were whoring around with mongols, swedes, finns, even french and everybody
else who bothered to come, unzip his pants and "enrich your gene pool", it
does not mean that the same thing happened to everybody else.
"YULKA" <jpetkov@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:TSZYb.66191$Wa.11105@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

OK, but wouldn't you think that the majority of the people who migrated to
Israel, have very little if anything to do with those people mentioned in
the Old Testament?



I mean, even if we assume this land belongs to the Jews exclusively, by
virtue of Mythology, can you find non-White Jews to restore the

original?




From my prospective Judaism is a religion and no longer denotes ethnicity

or

race!

Or it will be ridiculous to send Anglo-Saxons like Michael York and the
likes, back to the Promised Land, don't you agree?


"Passerby" <p_a_s_s_e_r_b_y@skynet.net> wrote in message
news:01WYb.18564$%d3.1868696@twister.southeast.rr.com...

You see, the thing is that unlike egyptians and syrian arabs , Jews,
"russian" and otherwise have a deed to this land. It is translated to

about

150 languages and printed in several billions of copies. Unlike you,

your

mooslime friends are aware of this because they stole it and rewrote it

into

their holy book.


"YULKA" <jpetkov@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:hGVYb.65921$Wa.39863@news-server.bigpond.net.au...


"Passerby" <p_a_s_s_e_r_b_y@skynet.net> wrote in message
news:VvTYb.18181$%d3.1833057@twister.southeast.rr.com...

Well, 5% are always complaining about something.
The remaining 95% are quite satisfied.
A tremendous success!
Great job, Israel!!!


Yehright, stealing Semite (Arab) land.

And stealing White people from Europe.
A Great Job indeed!



"torresD" <torresD30@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:36QYb.10197$W74.1463@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...



"They called us 'sausage immigrants'
in Israel,

as if we were just looking for a handout,"

says Joseph Krongauz,
a 73-year-old construction consultant
who went to Israel with his wife in 1995.





http://www.canada.com/news/world/story.html?id=6BB7022F-0262-4517-AA16-E438E

A4D4E23

FRED WEIR
Canadian Press

Monday, February 16, 2004

MOSCOW (CP) -

Oleg Khait fled the Soviet Union in
1990 seeking a better life and safe
haven as a Jew in Israel.

Today he says he's found
what he was looking for -
back in Russia.

"The whole family wanted to come back to Russia,"

says the 43-year-old language teacher who
says he's amazed at how Moscow is booming
with new business, intellectual and cultural activity.

"Israel is fine but we always
felt like outsiders there."

Despite increasing terrorism in Russia,
including the subway bombing in Moscow
earlier this month that killed 39 people,
he says

"we are sure coming back was the right decision."

Khait and his family are among the estimated
50,000 former Soviet Jews who've decided to
return in recent years, driven not only by
economic crisis and security nightmare in
Israel but also by unexpected social stability
and fresh opportunities opening up in Russia.

It's not quite a flood,
but the surge of reverse emigration
has raised hopes among some community
activists that the historic Jewish
presence in Russia may not be ending.

At a recent Kremlin meeting,
Russia's chief Rabbi Berl Lazar
told President Vladimir Putin that

"Jewish life is once again
on the rise in Russia."

"Jews are discovering that they
can stay here and live at the same
level as anywhere else in the world," he said.

The number of Jews in Russia plummeted
from 540,000 to just 230,000 between
the censuses of 1989 and 2002,
as Jews seized upon the Soviet
breakdown as a chance to get out.

Many of those who left the U.S.S.R.
and early post-Soviet Russia recall
being exhausted with economic hardship
and terrified that traditional Russian
anti-Semitism might erupt into
anti-Jewish pogroms.

But life in Israel presented
other kinds of difficulties.

"They called us 'sausage immigrants'
in Israel,

as if we were just looking for a handout,"

says Joseph Krongauz,
a 73-year-old construction consultant
who went to Israel with his wife in 1995.

Though the couple never learned to speak Hebrew,
he says there were few problems adapting.

"All the shops around our
home in Tel Aviv were Russian;
we socialized mainly with
Russians," he says.

But finding work was impossible.

The Israeli government cut social
benefits and the security situation grew more tense.


"The young manage well,
but it's awfully hard for
middle-aged people to feel at
home in Israel or to find work
in their own professions," he says.

Krongauz decided to return to Russia
after former colleagues in Moscow called
and offered him a consulting position
three years ago.

"Now I'm back,
working at a great job
and never been happier,"

he says.

"It's wonderful to feel needed at my age."

While Israel plunged into economic recession
and has been rocked by escalating terrorism
over the last three years,

Russia has seen a long spurt of
economic growth and rising national
confidence under Putin.

Sergei Barabash, 28,
a computer programmer who emigrated
to Israel as a teenager in 1990,
says he decided to return to Russia
after visiting Moscow as a tourist
recently.

"I realized this was not the country I left," he says.

"It's much more interesting here.

I'm not saying I've made
up my mind permanently,
but I'm going to give
Russia a try."

Some experts argue that the
back-and-forth movements of
ex-Soviet Jews are simply a
tribute to the freedom and
mobility of the post-Iron
Curtain world.

"There are no borders any more,
so people can come to Russia to
get educated, start businesses or whatever,"

says Semyon Dovzhik,
press secretary for the Jewish Agency in Moscow,
which encourages Russian Jews to emigrate to Israel.

"We can't say this is a really big problem."

Zinovy Kogan,
rabbi at Moscow's Poklonnaya Gora Synagogue,
says many recent returnees have come to him
with conflicted emotions.

"They want to be Jews and feel
guilty that they've left Israel," he says.

"Our task here is to make them feel
comfortable with their choices and
help them regain their Russian
sense of Jewishness."

"These people have had a long journey," he says.

"They left the U.S.S.R. as Jews,
but arrived in Israel as Russians.

Now they must get used to the idea
that here they will be called Jews
again, not Russians."

But he insists the trend is a hopeful one.

"Jews have lived for centuries in Russia,
and through all this time managed to preserve
and develop their culture," he says.

"It shows great strength for them to
come back here, and express their
freedom in Russia."




















.







User: "AnimaMinima"

Title: Re: The Emptying Of Russia - Capitalism Finishes Hitler's And Stalin's Work 18 Feb 2004 10:58:30 AM
(The Black Monk) wrote in message news:<c21219d5.0402171823.4754965@posting.google.com>...

animaminima@yahoo.com (AnimaMinima) wrote in message news:<2776796e.0402171451.581b69ca@posting.google.com>...

(The Black Monk) wrote in message news:<c21219d5.0402171056.24f99a0b@posting.google.com>...

W.Syme <W.Syme.killspam@hotpop.com> wrote in message news:<8a0607a45d5f487315a32f72e2d9c679@news.teranews.com>...

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:03:47 GMT,
u358673095@spawnkill.ip-mobilphone.net (Armageddon Watch) wrote:



washingtonpost.com



Why did you crosspost this to alt.atheism? What does this have to do
with atheism?


Simple. The more atheistic the society, the lower the birthrate.



I knew there had to be something good about it.
But I thought the Russians were all religious now?


They are slowly disgarding the Western poison, and birthrates are rising.

Oh, giving up capitalism, are they? Already? Too bad.
.
User: "The Black Monk"

Title: Re: The Emptying Of Russia - Capitalism Finishes Hitler's And Stalin's Work 18 Feb 2004 06:11:59 PM
(AnimaMinima) wrote in message news:<2776796e.0402180858.3e600050@posting.google.com>...

Why did you crosspost this to alt.atheism? What does this have to do
with atheism?


Simple. The more atheistic the society, the lower the birthrate.



I knew there had to be something good about it.
But I thought the Russians were all religious now?


They are slowly disgarding the Western poison, and birthrates are rising.



Oh, giving up capitalism, are they?

Atheism. Pay attention.
BM

Already? Too bad.

.




User: "W.Syme"

Title: Re: The Emptying Of Russia - Capitalism Finishes Hitler's And Stalin's Work 17 Feb 2004 07:51:42 PM
On 17 Feb 2004 10:56:35 -0800,
(The Black
Monk) wrote:

W.Syme <W.Syme.killspam@hotpop.com> wrote in message news:<8a0607a45d5f487315a32f72e2d9c679@news.teranews.com>...

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:03:47 GMT,
u358673095@spawnkill.ip-mobilphone.net (Armageddon Watch) wrote:



washingtonpost.com



Why did you crosspost this to alt.atheism? What does this have to do
with atheism?


Simple. The more atheistic the society, the lower the birthrate.

BM

Then how come Italy has the lowest birthrate in Europe, while it
certainly isn't the most atheistic country?
--
==I am an atheist==
.


User: "These Gremlins Grammaticus"

Title: Re: The Emptying Of Russia - Capitalism Finishes Hitler's And Stalin's Work 19 Feb 2004 08:24:59 AM
W.Syme <W.Syme.killspam@hotpop.com> wrote in message news:<8a0607a45d5f487315a32f72e2d9c679@news.teranews.com>...

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:03:47 GMT,
u358673095@spawnkill.ip-mobilphone.net (Armageddon Watch) wrote:



washingtonpost.com



Why did you crosspost this to alt.atheism? What does this have to do
with atheism?

You should have more CATHOLIC tastes! LOL!
.


User: "D.K."

Title: Re: The Emptying Of Russia - Capitalism Finishes Hitler's And Stalin's Work 16 Feb 2004 10:10:40 PM
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:03:47 GMT,

(Armageddon Watch) wrote:



washingtonpost.com


The Emptying of Russia


By Nicholas Eberstadt

Friday, February 13, 2004; Page A27

Russia is at the brink of a steep demographic decline -- a peacetime
population hemorrhage framed by a collapse and a catastrophic surge,
respectively, in the birth and death rates.

Pathetic incompetent journalism. In truth, for the last two years,
both trends have reversed themselves and every social or economic
indicator says that it's going to hold this way.

It seems likely that Russia will become a "normal" Western nation only
when its voting public makes clear that this situation is intolerable
and must be remedied. Only then, one can argue, will Russia's public
servants finally be aroused from their deadly lethargy and mobilize
themselves for this absolutely necessary struggle in defense of the
motherland.


The writer holds the Henry Wendt chair in political economy at the
American Enterprise Institute.

The guy is yet another case illustrating how many incompetent
idiots make nice careers doing basically nothing.
DK

.
User: "Captain!"

Title: Re: The Emptying Of Russia - Capitalism Finishes Hitler's And Stalin's Work 17 Feb 2004 02:49:05 AM
"D.K." <dk@no.email.thankstospam.net> wrote in message
news:ek4330tu8bnjc1pm7hsi0613mv7gkv8cr1@4ax.com...

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:03:47 GMT,


(Armageddon Watch) wrote:



washingtonpost.com


The Emptying of Russia


By Nicholas Eberstadt

Friday, February 13, 2004; Page A27

Russia is at the brink of a steep demographic decline -- a peacetime
population hemorrhage framed by a collapse and a catastrophic surge,
respectively, in the birth and death rates.


Pathetic incompetent journalism. In truth, for the last two years,
both trends have reversed themselves and every social or economic
indicator says that it's going to hold this way.

It seems likely that Russia will become a "normal" Western nation only
when its voting public makes clear that this situation is intolerable
and must be remedied. Only then, one can argue, will Russia's public
servants finally be aroused from their deadly lethargy and mobilize
themselves for this absolutely necessary struggle in defense of the
motherland.


The writer holds the Henry Wendt chair in political economy at the
American Enterprise Institute.


The guy is yet another case illustrating how many incompetent
idiots make nice careers doing basically nothing.

DK

so? let them think that if they want. it just provides more oportunity
through less competition for those in the know on a variety of fronts. as
the economy continues to grow, look for a future increase in small ticket
imports in russia and get on board if you feel brave enough.
.

User: "Stinky Pete"

Title: Re: The Emptying Of Russia - Capitalism Finishes Hitler's And Stalin's Work 17 Feb 2004 02:39:26 PM
"D.K." <dk@no.email.thankstospam.net> wrote in message
news:ek4330tu8bnjc1pm7hsi0613mv7gkv8cr1@4ax.com...

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:03:47 GMT,


(Armageddon Watch) wrote:



washingtonpost.com


The Emptying of Russia


By Nicholas Eberstadt

Friday, February 13, 2004; Page A27

Russia is at the brink of a steep demographic decline -- a peacetime
population hemorrhage framed by a collapse and a catastrophic surge,
respectively, in the birth and death rates.


Pathetic incompetent journalism. In truth, for the last two years,
both trends have reversed themselves and every social or economic
indicator says that it's going to hold this way.

Only if you add immigrants from China, Korea, etc. Without those people, the
Russian population is clearly in decline.

It seems likely that Russia will become a "normal" Western nation only
when its voting public makes clear that this situation is intolerable
and must be remedied. Only then, one can argue, will Russia's public
servants finally be aroused from their deadly lethargy and mobilize
themselves for this absolutely necessary struggle in defense of the
motherland.


The writer holds the Henry Wendt chair in political economy at the
American Enterprise Institute.


The guy is yet another case illustrating how many incompetent
idiots make nice careers doing basically nothing.

DK

.


User: "Rammstein"

Title: Re: The Emptying Of Russia - Capitalism Finishes Hitler's And Stalin's Work 16 Feb 2004 04:38:11 PM
The rats are deserting the sinking ship.
"Armageddon Watch" <u358673095@spawnkill.ip-mobilphone.net> wrote in message
news:l.1076965428.1761016845@adsl-65-68-134-161.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net...



washingtonpost.com


The Emptying of Russia


By Nicholas Eberstadt

Friday, February 13, 2004; Page A27


Population trends and demographic characteristics in Russia today are
severely -- and adversely -- altering the realm of the possible for
that country and its people. Russian social conditions, economic
potential, military power and international influence are all affected,
and the situation stands only to worsen.

Russia is at the brink of a steep demographic decline -- a peacetime
population hemorrhage framed by a collapse and a catastrophic surge,
respectively, in the birth and death rates. The forces that have shaped
this path of depopulation and debilitation are powerful and by now
deeply rooted in Russian soil. Altering this demographic trajectory
would be a formidable task under any circumstances. Unfortunately,
neither Russia's political leadership nor its voting public have begun
to face up to this enormous challenge.

On New Year's Day 1992 -- one week after the dissolution of the Soviet
Union -- Russia's population was estimated at 148.7 million. As of mid-
2003, according to the Russian State Statistics Committee, the Russian
Federation's population was 144.5 million. This was by no means the
only population loss recorded by any country during that period.
According to estimates and projections by the U.S. Bureau of the
Census, more than a dozen states experienced a population decline
between midyear 1992 and midyear 2003, 10 of these amounting to drops
greater than Russia's 3.1 percent. But unlike some of these drops --
e.g. Bosnia's -- Russia's could not be explained in terms of war and
violent upheaval. In other places, population decline was due entirely
to emigration. Russia, by contrast, absorbed a substantial net influx
of migrants during those years -- a total net addition of more than 5.5
million.

Moreover, continuing population decline -- at a decidedly faster tempo -
- is envisioned for Russia as far as demographers care to project into
the future. The only question is how steep the downward path will be.
The U.S. Census Bureau offers the relatively "optimistic" projection of
a drop of 10 million between 2000 and 2025. The U.N. Population
Division's "medium variant" projection suggests a drop of more than 21
million in that period.

Russia is not, to be sure, the only European country registering more
deaths than births. According to Council of Europe numbers, fully 18
European states currently report "negative natural increase." But in
other European settings, the balance is often still quite close. For
example, in Italy -- the prime example in many current discussions of a
possible depopulation of Europe -- there are today about 103 deaths for
every 100 live births. Russia, by contrast, reports more than 170
deaths for every 100 births.

Russia's abrupt and brutal swerve onto the path to depopulation began
during the final crisis of the Soviet state. Over the two decades
before Mikhail Gorbachev's accession to power in 1985, Russia's births
regularly exceeded deaths. After 1987, however, births began to fall
sharply and death totals to rise.

Russia's current depopulation bears all the trappings of a "demographic
shock," reflecting abrupt and violent changes in the nation's vital
rates in the immediate wake of a momentous, system-shattering, historic
event. This shock is probably not just a temporary disturbance: There
are good reasons to believe that Russia's population trends define a
new norm for that country.

Fertility plummeted from 2.19 in 1986-87 to 1.17 in 1999. (Over the
past several years, fertility has edged up, but only slightly.) Given
how quickly it declined, is it not possible that it would rebound
vigorously in a more favorable political and economic environment? It's
possible, but there are a number of obstacles to such a recovery.

First: Russia's poor and declining overall health patterns extend into
the realm of reproductive health, meaning that involuntary infertility
is a more significant problem for Russia than for Western countries,
and possibly a worsening one. According to some recent reports, 13
percent of Russia's married couples of childbearing age are infertile --
nearly twice the figure for the United States in 1995. Other Russian
sources point to an even greater prevalence of infertility today.

Russian womanhood has been scarred by the country's extraordinary
popular reliance upon abortion as a primary means of contraception --
with the abortions in question conducted under the less-than-exemplary
standards of Soviet and post-Soviet medicine. As one expert (Murray
Feshbach) has noted, "approximately 10 to 20 percent of [Russian] women
become infertile after abortions, according to numerous reports." Add
to this the explosive spread of potentially curable sexually
transmitted infections. According to official figures, the incidence of
syphilis in 2001 was 100 times higher in Russia than in Germany.

Second: Russian patterns of family formation have been evolving
markedly over the past generation -- and not in a direction conducive
to larger families. Simply put, young Russians are now much less likely
to marry -- and ever more likely to divorce if they do. In 2001 Russia
recorded three divorces for every four new marriages.

Third, and perhaps most important: With the end of the Soviet system,
Russia has in some real sense commenced a rejoining with the rest of
Europe -- and in present-day Europe, Russian fertility rates are by no
means aberrant. While Russia's levels tilt toward the lower end of the
European spectrum, they are actually higher than for some other post-
Communist areas whose "transitions" to democracy and market order look
rather more complete (Slovenia, 1.21; Czech Republic, 1.14) -- and are
comparable to the current levels in a number of the established market
democracies of the European Union (Austria, 1.31; Greece, 1.29; Spain,
1.26; Italy, 1.24). Viewed over a longer horizon, Russia's postwar
fertility levels and trends look altogether "European."

But Russia's death rates do not look European at all. Over the four
decades between 1961-62 and 2002, life expectancy at birth in Russia
fell by nearly five years for males; it also declined for females,
though just slightly. Desperately poor health conditions are
distributed with a wretched evenness across the land.

To judge by Russia's (admittedly less than perfect) statistics on cause
of death, nearly all of the increase in mortality rates for men -- and
absolutely all of the increase for women -- can be attributed to an
explosion in deaths related to cardiovascular disease (CVD -- heart
disease plus strokes) and injuries. Between the mid-1960s and the end
of the 20th century, CVD mortality rates in Japan, Western Europe and
North America fell sharply. In Russia between 1965 and 2001, the age-
standardized death rate for CVD surged by 25 percent for women and 65
percent for men. By the dawn of the 21st century, the level of CVD
mortality was of a totally different scale than anything seen in the
West. For working-age people, or those 25 to 64, Ireland reported
Western Europe's highest level of CVD mortality. Russia's was more than
four times Ireland's.

As for mortality attributed to injury -- murder, suicide, traffic,
poisoning and other violent causes -- age-adjusted levels for men and
women alike more t