The gospels Are The Property Of The Greco-Roman Church...



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "Codebreaker"
Date: 26 Nov 2007 04:03:52 PM
Object: The gospels Are The Property Of The Greco-Roman Church...
But the Gospel belongs to nobody. It is the divine message
from God to mankind through Christ.
So why do the secular Scholars insist on a lost Gospel?
A lost Gospel???? How this could be?
Secular Scholars insist on a lost Gospel to give the
impression that they have a grip on our book but in fact
their exegesis is in ERROR. Shame on them.
Their definition of the word Gospel is in ERROR as well.
so is their definiton of the word Christian.
First of all, the Gospel is no written book.
Jesus did not come with a book, and the only book
the Apostles quoted when preaching the Gospel was not
the gospels but the book of Moses known as the Torah,
the books of the prophets or the Law and the prophets.
This is the reason "John" told us this:
"Jesus did many things which is not written in this book
because If we were trying to write a book containing all the things,
the whole world would not be enough." -John-
meaning that we are not missing anything.
And Paul taught us that the Gospel he was preaching was
predicted in the Jewish Scriptures and warned us
that If we knew Christ accordingly to the flesh or based
on his earthly life, we don't know him that way anymore.
Which mean that the Cosmic Christ is more important
and powerful that the earthly one.
No Gospel is lost and the gnostics who put in Jesus
mouth some pagans words should know that Jesus
was born in Israel within the framework of Moses Law.
While on earth, he debated the pharisees on the inner
interpretation of that Law. Once he was alone with his disciples,
he furthered that teaching. So the CONTEXT OF HIS TEACHING
WAS MOSES' LAW. The gnostic gospel had him speak out of the
blue as do the pagans gods.
Who would care If that "gospel" is lost.
Truly E. Pagel and friends are obssessed with the wrong thing.
They can only convince those who have an agenda
and have no understanding of Moses Law.
As for us the canonical writings make sense because set within
the context of Moses regulations.
The Gospels are not the Gospel, they are the Acts and sayings
of the Messiah or Christ.
Even Mohammad understood that:
"O God we follow the Messenger - Christ - the Prophet of the Gentiles
that we found described in the Law of Moses and the Gospel" Qur'an
and not the Gospels as If they were many.
To hell with the lost Gospel and E. Pagel
.

User: "Bill M"

Title: Re: The gospels Are The Property Of The Greco-Roman Church... 26 Nov 2007 01:47:14 PM
"Codebreaker" <Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:e222ca0f-b4cb-4962-9641-b4e1a6149461@g30g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...

But the Gospel belongs to nobody. It is the divine message
from God to mankind through Christ.

\
The very foundation of Christian and Hebrew religions is the Bibles. They
totally base their faith on the Bibles.
The Bibles are nothing more than books of myths, fables, contradictions,
human and animal sacrifices, genocide, slaveholding, misogyny, destruction,
barbarisms, and impossible tales. They are not accurate history and
certainly are not the words of any god unless he is an insane and totally
untrustworthy monster. They are not even good fiction.
The average person today does not appreciate the difficulty and unlikelihood
of producing accurate transmissions of the original Bibles. Firstly there
are NO ORIGINALS in existence. They are all copies of copies of unknown
accuracy.
One of the problems with the accuracy of the Bibles is that when they were
first copied, no marks of punctuation were used, no distinction was made
between lower case and upper case letters and more bizarre to modern script,
no spaces were used to separate words.
This kind of continuous writing was called "scriptuo continua".
'godisnowhere' could mean 'god is now here' or quit the opposite, 'god is no
where' depending on the spacing which was not used at the time. This left
accurate interpretation very unlikely if not impossible.
Add to this the natural occurrence of errors of transmission and the
intentional modification to suite the transcribers wishes and beliefs and
you have documents of highly questionable meaning and very atrocious
accuracy.
Further compounding the problem was the size and accuracy of the
vocabularies were much more limited than today. And they were written before
the modern dictionaries so there was room for much conflict between the
meaning of words.
The Bibles are a foundation of quicksand. There are NO ORIGINALS in
existence. Why would not any 'real' God protect the originals??? What are
available are altered copies of copies by unknown men of questionable
veracity. The books of the Bibles were written over 1,000 years before the
invention of the printing press. Even the so called originals were
supposedly written by 50 or more different authors of unknown veracity. They
are biased by, and dependent on the writings and opinions of the clergy. And
the status and survival of the clergy is totally dependent on their follower's
belief in their Bible stories. There are 18 different English versions alone
and there is no way of knowing how far they have wondered from the
originals.
And there is no evidence that even the originals are anything more than
inaccurate fiction.
Basing ones life and faith on these documents is basing ones life on trash.
It is the equivalent of depending on the good luck of a rabbit's foot.
.
User: "d2e2"

Title: Re: The gospels Are The Property Of The Greco-Roman Church... 26 Nov 2007 08:58:08 PM
Bill M wrote:

"Codebreaker" <Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:e222ca0f-b4cb-4962-9641-b4e1a6149461@g30g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...

But the Gospel belongs to nobody. It is the divine message
from God to mankind through Christ.


\


The very foundation of Christian and Hebrew religions is the Bibles. They
totally base their faith on the Bibles.



The Bibles are nothing more than books of myths, fables, contradictions,
human and animal sacrifices, genocide, slaveholding, misogyny, destruction,
barbarisms, and impossible tales. They are not accurate history and
certainly are not the words of any god unless he is an insane and totally
untrustworthy monster. They are not even good fiction.



The average person today does not appreciate the difficulty and unlikelihood

of producing accurate transmissions of the original Bibles. Firstly there
are NO ORIGINALS in existence. They are all copies of copies of unknown
accuracy.



One of the problems with the accuracy of the Bibles is that when they were
first copied, no marks of punctuation were used, no distinction was made
between lower case and upper case letters and more bizarre to modern script,
no spaces were used to separate words.



This kind of continuous writing was called "scriptuo continua".

'godisnowhere' could mean 'god is now here' or quit the opposite, 'god is no
where' depending on the spacing which was not used at the time. This left
accurate interpretation very unlikely if not impossible.



Add to this the natural occurrence of errors of transmission and the
intentional modification to suite the transcribers wishes and beliefs and
you have documents of highly questionable meaning and very atrocious
accuracy.



Further compounding the problem was the size and accuracy of the
vocabularies were much more limited than today. And they were written before
the modern dictionaries so there was room for much conflict between the
meaning of words.



The Bibles are a foundation of quicksand. There are NO ORIGINALS in
existence. Why would not any 'real' God protect the originals??? What are
available are altered copies of copies by unknown men of questionable
veracity. The books of the Bibles were written over 1,000 years before the
invention of the printing press. Even the so called originals were
supposedly written by 50 or more different authors of unknown veracity. They
are biased by, and dependent on the writings and opinions of the clergy. And
the status and survival of the clergy is totally dependent on their follower's
belief in their Bible stories. There are 18 different English versions alone
and there is no way of knowing how far they have wondered from the
originals.



And there is no evidence that even the originals are anything more than
inaccurate fiction.



Basing ones life and faith on these documents is basing ones life on trash.
It is the equivalent of depending on the good luck of a rabbit's foot.




Christianity is not based upon historical documentation. Christianity is
not a religion as you like to define religion. The foundation of
Christianity is a relationship with a living God. A God who communed
with living men in the past. These, those God communed with, left
historical evidence of their existence, they provided nothing to give
evidence of God's existence. To do so would be as absurd as saying, "I
think therefore you exist." The historical documentation which they left
provides confirmation of a common experience for those with whom God,
through Christ, communes today.
There is a difference between the living and the dead. The living have
the ability to respond to what they hear, see, smell, taste and
tactually sense. The dead are so named because they can neither sense
nor respond. A man who cannot commune with God is like a dead man.
.
User: "Robibnikoff"

Title: Re: The gospels Are The Property Of The Greco-Roman Church... 27 Nov 2007 11:24:43 AM
"d2e2" <d2e2@bellsouth.net> wrote
snip

Christianity is not based upon historical documentation. Christianity is
not a religion as you like to define religion. The foundation of
Christianity is a relationship with a living God.

Which one?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
.
User: "Codebreaker"

Title: Re: The gospels Are The Property Of The Greco-Roman Church... 28 Nov 2007 01:21:02 PM
On Nov 27, 12:24 pm, "Robibnikoff" <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote:

"d2e2" <d...@bellsouth.net> wrote

snip

Christianity is not based upon historical documentation. Christianity is
not a religion as you like to define religion. The foundation of
Christianity is a relationship with a living God.


Which one?

"Let me push it babe, let me push it
O How I miss you....."

--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557

.


User: "duke"

Title: Re: The gospels Are The Property Of The Greco-Roman Church... 27 Nov 2007 06:51:57 AM
On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 21:58:08 -0500, d2e2 <d2e2@bellsouth.net> wrote:

The very foundation of Christian and Hebrew religions is the Bibles. They
totally base their faith on the Bibles.

Christianity is not based upon historical documentation.

Our course it is. It's as much historical information as the American
Revolution.

Christianity is
not a religion as you like to define religion. The foundation of
Christianity is a relationship with a living God. A God who communed
with living men in the past. These, those God communed with, left
historical evidence of their existence, they provided nothing to give
evidence of God's existence. To do so would be as absurd as saying, "I
think therefore you exist." The historical documentation which they left
provides confirmation of a common experience for those with whom God,
through Christ, communes today.
There is a difference between the living and the dead. The living have
the ability to respond to what they hear, see, smell, taste and
tactually sense. The dead are so named because they can neither sense
nor respond. A man who cannot commune with God is like a dead man.

Yep, those are atheists.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.

User: "Christopher A.Lee"

Title: Re: The gospels Are The Property Of The Greco-Roman Church... 27 Nov 2007 11:45:21 AM
On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 21:58:08 -0500, d2e2 <d2e2@bellsouth.net> wrote:

Christianity is not based upon historical documentation. Christianity is
not a religion as you like to define religion.

Either a liar or a self-deluded idiot.

The foundation of
Christianity is a relationship with a living God.

Where did you demonstrate its existence outside your deluded fantasies
you have a relationship with it, before being so question-beggingly
stupid?
Of is "living God" another word for your right hand? After all we know
your kind of brainwashed Christian is a wanker.

A God who communed
with living men in the past.

Prove it, brainwashed moron.

These, those God communed with, left

Prove it, brainwashed moron.

historical evidence of their existence, they provided nothing to give
evidence of God's existence.

Then keep your delusions to yourself in the real world outside your
religion.

To do so would be as absurd as saying, "I
think therefore you exist." The historical documentation which they left

What "historical documentation", brainwashed moron?

provides confirmation of a common experience for those with whom God,
through Christ, communes today.

Prove it, question-begging moron.

There is a difference between the living and the dead. The living have
the ability to respond to what they hear, see, smell, taste and
tactually sense. The dead are so named because they can neither sense
nor respond.

Give the man a peanut.

A man who cannot commune with God is like a dead man.

Liar.
.

User: "Codebreaker"

Title: Re: The gospels Are The Property Of The Greco-Roman Church... 28 Nov 2007 01:26:04 PM
On Nov 26, 9:58 pm, d2e2 <d...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

Bill M wrote:

"Codebreaker" <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:e222ca0f-b4cb-4962-9641-b4e1a6149461@g30g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...

But the Gospel belongs to nobody. It is the divine message
from God to mankind through Christ.


\


The very foundation of Christian and Hebrew religions is the Bibles. They
totally base their faith on the Bibles.


The Bibles are nothing more than books of myths, fables, contradictions,
human and animal sacrifices, genocide, slaveholding, misogyny, destruction,
barbarisms, and impossible tales. They are not accurate history and
certainly are not the words of any god unless he is an insane and totally
untrustworthy monster. They are not even good fiction.


The average person today does not appreciate the difficulty and unlikelihood


of producing accurate transmissions of the original Bibles. Firstly there
are NO ORIGINALS in existence. They are all copies of copies of unknown
accuracy.


One of the problems with the accuracy of the Bibles is that when they were
first copied, no marks of punctuation were used, no distinction was made
between lower case and upper case letters and more bizarre to modern script,
no spaces were used to separate words.


This kind of continuous writing was called "scriptuo continua".


'godisnowhere' could mean 'god is now here' or quit the opposite, 'god is no
where' depending on the spacing which was not used at the time. This left
accurate interpretation very unlikely if not impossible.


Add to this the natural occurrence of errors of transmission and the
intentional modification to suite the transcribers wishes and beliefs and
you have documents of highly questionable meaning and very atrocious
accuracy.


Further compounding the problem was the size and accuracy of the
vocabularies were much more limited than today. And they were written before
the modern dictionaries so there was room for much conflict between the
meaning of words.


The Bibles are a foundation of quicksand. There are NO ORIGINALS in
existence. Why would not any 'real' God protect the originals??? What are
available are altered copies of copies by unknown men of questionable
veracity. The books of the Bibles were written over 1,000 years before the
invention of the printing press. Even the so called originals were
supposedly written by 50 or more different authors of unknown veracity. They
are biased by, and dependent on the writings and opinions of the clergy. And
the status and survival of the clergy is totally dependent on their follower's
belief in their Bible stories. There are 18 different English versions alone
and there is no way of knowing how far they have wondered from the
originals.


And there is no evidence that even the originals are anything more than
inaccurate fiction.


Basing ones life and faith on these documents is basing ones life on trash.
It is the equivalent of depending on the good luck of a rabbit's foot.


Christianity is not based upon historical documentation. Christianity is
not a religion as you like to define religion. The foundation of

There would be no Christianity without
Jesus being Christ. And there would be no
Christ without the Mosaic prediction
found in the Torah. And Christ being
a historical figure, then Christianity is
Historical and not just mystical as some prosperity
preachers want us to believe so that they
can excuse their History illiteracy.

Christianity is a relationship with a living God. A God who communed
with living men in the past. These, those God communed with, left
historical evidence of their existence, they provided nothing to give
evidence of God's existence. To do so would be as absurd as saying, "I
think therefore you exist." The historical documentation which they left
provides confirmation of a common experience for those with whom God,
through Christ, communes today.

There is a difference between the living and the dead. The living have
the ability to respond to what they hear, see, smell, taste and
tactually sense. The dead are so named because they can neither sense
nor respond. A man who cannot commune with God is like a dead man.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

.

User: "Uncle Vic"

Title: Re: The gospels Are The Property Of The Greco-Roman Church... 26 Nov 2007 10:23:18 PM
One fine day in alt.atheism, d2e2 <d2e2@bellsouth.net> bloodied us up
with this:


Christianity is not based upon historical documentation. Christianity
is
not a religion as you like to define religion. The foundation of
Christianity is a relationship with a living God. A God who communed
with living men in the past. These, those God communed with, left
historical evidence of their existence, they provided nothing to give
evidence of God's existence. To do so would be as absurd as saying, "I
think therefore you exist." The historical documentation which they
left provides confirmation of a common experience for those with whom
God, through Christ, communes today.

There is a difference between the living and the dead. The living have
the ability to respond to what they hear, see, smell, taste and
tactually sense. The dead are so named because they can neither sense
nor respond. A man who cannot commune with God is like a dead man.


You cannot call any god a "living god" without supplying evidence that the
god is alive. To do so is a lie, like the last sentence of your post.
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Convicted by Earthquack.
.
User: "duke"

Title: Re: The gospels Are The Property Of The Greco-Roman Church... 27 Nov 2007 06:55:12 AM
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 04:23:18 GMT, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com> wrote:

You cannot call any god a "living god" without supplying evidence that the
god is alive. To do so is a lie, like the last sentence of your post.

Evidence - the previously dead but now risen Jesus took a leisurely stroll for
40 days with 500+ of his disciples, talking and eating and drinking with them
(ghosts can't do this).
His disciples said it, it was written down, and is now history, just as any good
history book does.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.



User: "duke"

Title: Re: The gospels Are The Property Of The Greco-Roman Church... 27 Nov 2007 06:50:17 AM
On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 19:47:14 -0000, "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote:

The very foundation of Christian and Hebrew religions is the Bibles. They
totally base their faith on the Bibles.

No, no, no, willie. The bible is the compilation of the facts, beliefs, and
religious practices of the early Christians, not vice versa.
This must be the 25th time I've told you this, and you still don't get it.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.

User: "Codebreaker"

Title: Re: The gospels Are The Property Of The Greco-Roman Church... 28 Nov 2007 01:29:29 PM
On Nov 26, 2:47 pm, "Bill M" <wm...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

"Codebreaker" <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message

news:e222ca0f-b4cb-4962-9641-b4e1a6149461@g30g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...

But the Gospel belongs to nobody. It is the divine message
from God to mankind through Christ.


\

The very foundation of Christian and Hebrew religions is the Bibles. They
totally base their faith on the Bibles.

In Jesus' time there was no Bible
This is why Jesus never quoted one, but
instead quoted Moses, or the Law/Torah and the prophets as
The complete bible as we know it came later after Jesus' death
and resurrection


The Bibles are nothing more than books of myths, fables, contradictions,
human and animal sacrifices, genocide, slaveholding, misogyny, destruction,
barbarisms, and impossible tales. They are not accurate history and
certainly are not the words of any god unless he is an insane and totally
untrustworthy monster. They are not even good fiction.

The average person today does not appreciate the difficulty and unlikelihood

of producing accurate transmissions of the original Bibles. Firstly there
are NO ORIGINALS in existence. They are all copies of copies of unknown
accuracy.

One of the problems with the accuracy of the Bibles is that when they were
first copied, no marks of punctuation were used, no distinction was made
between lower case and upper case letters and more bizarre to modern script,
no spaces were used to separate words.

This kind of continuous writing was called "scriptuo continua".

'godisnowhere' could mean 'god is now here' or quit the opposite, 'god is no
where' depending on the spacing which was not used at the time. This left
accurate interpretation very unlikely if not impossible.

Add to this the natural occurrence of errors of transmission and the
intentional modification to suite the transcribers wishes and beliefs and
you have documents of highly questionable meaning and very atrocious
accuracy.

Further compounding the problem was the size and accuracy of the
vocabularies were much more limited than today. And they were written before
the modern dictionaries so there was room for much conflict between the
meaning of words.

The Bibles are a foundation of quicksand. There are NO ORIGINALS in
existence. Why would not any 'real' God protect the originals??? What are
available are altered copies of copies by unknown men of questionable
veracity. The books of the Bibles were written over 1,000 years before the
invention of the printing press. Even the so called originals were
supposedly written by 50 or more different authors of unknown veracity. They
are biased by, and dependent on the writings and opinions of the clergy. And
the status and survival of the clergy is totally dependent on their follower's
belief in their Bible stories. There are 18 different English versions alone
and there is no way of knowing how far they have wondered from the
originals.

And there is no evidence that even the originals are anything more than
inaccurate fiction.

Basing ones life and faith on these documents is basing ones life on trash.
It is the equivalent of depending on the good luck of a rabbit's foot.

.


User: ""

Title: Re: The gospels Are The Property Of The Greco-Roman Church... 27 Nov 2007 03:42:10 AM
On Nov 26, 2:03 pm, Codebreaker <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote:

But the Gospel belongs to nobody. It is the divine message
from God to mankind through Christ.
So why do the secular Scholars insist on a lost Gospel?
A lost Gospel???? How this could be?
Secular Scholars insist on a lost Gospel to give the
impression that they have a grip on our book but in fact
their exegesis is in ERROR. Shame on them.
Their definition of the word Gospel is in ERROR as well.
so is their definiton of the word Christian.
First of all, the Gospel is no written book.
Jesus did not come with a book, and the only book
the Apostles quoted when preaching the Gospel was not
the gospels but the book of Moses known as the Torah,
the books of the prophets or the Law and the prophets.
This is the reason "John" told us this:
"Jesus did many things which is not written in this book
because If we were trying to write a book containing all the things,
the whole world would not be enough." -John-
meaning that we are not missing anything.
And Paul taught us that the Gospel he was preaching was
predicted in the Jewish Scriptures and warned us
that If we knew Christ accordingly to the flesh or based
on his earthly life, we don't know him that way anymore.
Which mean that the Cosmic Christ is more important
and powerful that the earthly one.
No Gospel is lost and the gnostics who put in Jesus
mouth some pagans words should know that Jesus
was born in Israel within the framework of Moses Law.
While on earth, he debated the pharisees on the inner
interpretation of that Law. Once he was alone with his disciples,
he furthered that teaching. So the CONTEXT OF HIS TEACHING
WAS MOSES' LAW. The gnostic gospel had him speak out of the
blue as do the pagans gods.
Who would care If that "gospel" is lost.
Truly E. Pagel and friends are obssessed with the wrong thing.
They can only convince those who have an agenda
and have no understanding of Moses Law.
As for us the canonical writings make sense because set within
the context of Moses regulations.
The Gospels are not the Gospel, they are the Acts and sayings
of the Messiah or Christ.
Even Mohammad understood that:
"O God we follow the Messenger - Christ - the Prophet of the Gentiles
that we found described in the Law of Moses and the Gospel" Qur'an
and not the Gospels as If they were many.

To hell with the lost Gospel and E. Pagel

This is truly sad. When are people going to stop believing in fairy
tales?
.

User: "Olrik"

Title: Re: The gospels Are The Property Of The Greco-Roman Church... 27 Nov 2007 12:01:36 AM
On Nov 26, 5:03 pm, Codebreaker <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote:

But the Gospel belongs to nobody. It is the divine message
from God to mankind through Christ.

No, it's not.
The "gospels" are ***** (mixed origins) writings that are still
wreaking havoc around the world, killing innocent people and enslaving
others.
You should be ashamed of yourself, cb.
Olrik
<snip utter crap>
.

User: "Uncle Vic"

Title: Re: The gospels Are The Property Of The Greco-Roman Church... 26 Nov 2007 10:19:30 PM
One fine day in alt.atheism, Codebreaker <Codebreaker@bigsecret.com>
bloodied us up with this:

But the Gospel belongs to nobody. It is the divine message
from God to mankind through Christ.

No, it's the story of yet another godman savior in a long line of mythical
godman saviors dating back a thousand years before these were written - by
men, for men, and for the control of men.
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Convicted by Earthquack.
.
User: "duke"

Title: Re: The gospels Are The Property Of The Greco-Roman Church... 27 Nov 2007 06:56:15 AM
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 04:19:30 GMT, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com> wrote:

But the Gospel belongs to nobody. It is the divine message
from God to mankind through Christ.

No, it's the story of yet another godman savior in a long line of mythical
godman saviors dating back a thousand years before these were written - by
men, for men, and for the control of men.

However, the living God is alive and well.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.



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