| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"maff" |
| Date: |
08 Sep 2005 09:41:09 AM |
| Object: |
The mousetrap |
The mousetrap
http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/lastword/story/0,13228,1564377,00.html
Life is too complex for evolution to explain, say supporters of
intelligent design. Yet they insist market forces will suffice for the
economy, writes John Allen Paulos
Thursday September 8, 2005
The Guardian
The theory of intelligent design, the purportedly more scientific
descendant of creation science, rejects Darwin's theory of evolution as
being unable to explain the complexity of life. How, ask its
supporters, can biological phenomena such as the clotting of blood have
arisen just by chance?
John Allen Paulos
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/195334fb3e93c108
irreducible complexity
http://news.google.com/news?q=%22irreducible%20complexity%22&num=100&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22irreducible+complexity%22&num=100&hl=en&lr=&tab=nw&ie=UTF-8&sa=N
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22irreducible+complexity%22&btnG=Search+Directory&hl=en&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22irreducible%20complexity%22&num=100&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&sa=N&scoring=d&tab=wg
mousetrap
http://news.google.com/news?q=mousetrap&num=100&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?q=mousetrap&num=100&hl=en&lr=&tab=nw&ie=UTF-8&sa=N
http://www.google.com/search?q=mousetrap&btnG=Search+Directory&hl=en&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=mousetrap&num=100&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&sa=N&scoring=d&tab=wg
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| User: "John Stockwell" |
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| Title: ID is cosmic communism! |
08 Sep 2005 06:02:11 PM |
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Brilliant! ID is Soviet-style communist central planning at its extreme!
The mousetrap
http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/lastword/story/0,13228,1564377,00.html
Life is too complex for evolution to explain, say supporters of
intelligent design. Yet they insist market forces will suffice for the
economy, writes John Allen Paulos
Thursday September 8, 2005
The Guardian
The theory of intelligent design, the purportedly more scientific
descendant of creation science, rejects Darwin's theory of evolution as
being unable to explain the complexity of life. How, ask its
supporters, can biological phenomena such as the clotting of blood have
arisen just by chance?
John Allen Paulos
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/195334fb3e93c108
irreducible complexity
http://news.google.com/news?q=%22irreducible%20complexity%22&num=100&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22irreducible+complexity%22&num=100&hl=en&lr=&tab=nw&ie=UTF-8&sa=N
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22irreducible+complexity%22&btnG=Search+Directory&hl=en&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22irreducible%20complexity%22&num=100&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&sa=N&scoring=d&tab=wg
mousetrap
http://news.google.com/news?q=mousetrap&num=100&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?q=mousetrap&num=100&hl=en&lr=&tab=nw&ie=UTF-8&sa=N
http://www.google.com/search?q=mousetrap&btnG=Search+Directory&hl=en&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=mousetrap&num=100&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&sa=N&scoring=d&tab=wg
--
John Stockwell |
Center for Wave Phenomena (The Home of Seismic Un*x)
Colorado School of Mines
Golden, CO 80401 | http://www.cwp.mines.edu/cwpcodes
voice: (303) 273-3049
Our book:
Norman Bleistein, Jack K. Cohen, John W. Stockwell Jr., [2001],
Mathematics of multidimensional seismic imaging, migration, and inversion,
(Interdisciplinary Applied Mathematics, V. 13.), Springer-Verlag, New York.
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| User: "Chris Rohrer" |
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| Title: Re: ID is cosmic communism! |
08 Sep 2005 06:49:28 PM |
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John Stockwell wrote:
Brilliant! ID is Soviet-style communist central planning at its extreme!
<snippage>
I've been wanting to work this angle into a letter to the editor for
awhile, just haven't gotten around to it. The analogies between
natural selection and Smithian free-market Invisible Hand economies and
of ID to Soviet central planning are easy to grasp (and not that far
off-- NS and the IH both are the aggregate products of multiple small
competition events). Isn't it about time to start asking the
(overwhelmingly rightwing) ID proponents why they want to inculcate
schoolkids with a philosophy that promotes centralized, top-down,
authority as the source of all creative energy? They are downright
Stalinist. Let's start painting ID as un-American. Natural selection
is patriotic.
Chris Rohrer
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| User: "Rev Dr Lenny Flank" |
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| Title: Re: ID is cosmic communism! |
09 Sep 2005 12:22:58 AM |
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Chris Rohrer wrote:
John Stockwell wrote:
Brilliant! ID is Soviet-style communist central planning at its extreme!
<snippage>
I've been wanting to work this angle into a letter to the editor for
awhile, just haven't gotten around to it. The analogies between
natural selection and Smithian free-market Invisible Hand economies and
of ID to Soviet central planning are easy to grasp (and not that far
off-- NS and the IH both are the aggregate products of multiple small
competition events). Isn't it about time to start asking the
(overwhelmingly rightwing) ID proponents why they want to inculcate
schoolkids with a philosophy that promotes centralized, top-down,
authority as the source of all creative energy? They are downright
Stalinist. Let's start painting ID as un-American. Natural selection
is patriotic.
I prefer asking IDers and creationuts why they, like the Leninists,
prefer to take the responsibility for religious education OUT of the
hands of parents and families, and INTO the hands of the employees of
state-run school systems.
They, uh, never seem to want to asnwer that question . . . .
================================================
Lenny Flank
"There are no loose threads in the web of life"
Creation "Science" Debunked:
http://www.geocities.com/lflank
DebunkCreation email list:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DebunkCreation/
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: ID is cosmic communism! |
09 Sep 2005 09:52:48 AM |
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'Rev Dr' Lenny Flank wrote:
Chris Rohrer wrote:
John Stockwell wrote:
Brilliant! ID is Soviet-style communist central planning at its extreme!
<snippage>
I've been wanting to work this angle into a letter to the editor for
awhile, just haven't gotten around to it. The analogies between
natural selection and Smithian free-market Invisible Hand economies and
of ID to Soviet central planning are easy to grasp (and not that far
off-- NS and the IH both are the aggregate products of multiple small
competition events). Isn't it about time to start asking the
(overwhelmingly rightwing) ID proponents why they want to inculcate
schoolkids with a philosophy that promotes centralized, top-down,
authority as the source of all creative energy? They are downright
Stalinist. Let's start painting ID as un-American. Natural selection
is patriotic.
I prefer asking IDers and creationuts why they, like the Leninists,
prefer to take the responsibility for religious education OUT of the
hands of parents and families, and INTO the hands of the employees of
state-run school systems.
They, uh, never seem to want to asnwer that question . . . .
Of course the IDers pretend it isn't religious education. They're
lying.
There's nothing contradictory about state-run religion, though. Many
countries have one, or even more than one. It happens that the U.S.
does not, and in fact it is prohibited by the U.S. Constitution, even
if the President orders a day of prayer now and again.
If you do have a state religion, then it may as well be taught in
schools as well as churches. And organized religion tends to favor
organized instruction away from the home, anyway. Homeschooling isn't
the be-all of religion by any means.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: The mousetrap |
08 Sep 2005 01:07:06 PM |
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maff wrote:
The mousetrap
http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/lastword/story/0,13228,1564377,00.html
Life is too complex for evolution to explain, say supporters of
intelligent design. Yet they insist market forces will suffice for the
economy, writes John Allen Paulos
Thursday September 8, 2005
The Guardian
Like the alien-microbes-are-among-us anti-common-descent PHYSICIST guy,
this seems to another professional academic looking at things outside
his field (and this time going ad hominem as well, I think), but I like
him anyway.
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: The mousetrap |
08 Sep 2005 01:32:36 PM |
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wrote:
maff wrote:
The mousetrap
http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/lastword/story/0,13228,1564377,00.html
Life is too complex for evolution to explain, say supporters of
intelligent design. Yet they insist market forces will suffice for the
economy, writes John Allen Paulos
Thursday September 8, 2005
The Guardian
Like the alien-microbes-are-among-us anti-common-descent PHYSICIST guy,
this seems to another professional academic looking at things outside
his field (and this time going ad hominem as well, I think), but I like
him anyway.
"A more serious claim to have influenced Darwin can be made for the
Scottish economist Adam Smith, in his work The Wealth of Nations of
1776. There is a clear analogy between the survival of the corporation
through successful trading and the survival of a hereditary lineage
through advantageous traits. It is known that Darwin read Smith and
those political and social commentators that followed him, and it would
be surprising if these ideas did not lodge in his thoughts. However,
the biological and social and moral worlds were thought at that time to
be completely divorced. Remember, this was a time when even the
existence of an involuntary reflex was considered unthinkable: biology
simply could not overcome conscious will (for example Marshall Hall in
1832 was unable to publish his reflex studies in the Royal Society's
proceedings10). Malthus' views, e.g., were based on the assumption that
the poor were simply lacking in the moral fibre and strength of will.
The extension of this pattern of explanation to the biological world
was a major leap of imagination."
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/precursors/precursnatsel.html
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