I am wondering how or why the God of the OT could change his mind about
the ceremonial and punitive Laws he gave Moses, and send Jesus to die
on the cross, thus causing his laws to be no longer in effect..

The Law, and Jesus?
I am wondering how or why the God of the OT could change his mind about
the ceremonial and punitive Laws he gave Moses, and send Jesus to die
on the cross, thus causing his laws to be no longer in effect..

The Law, and Jesus?



I am wondering how or why the God of the OT could change his mind about
the ceremonial and punitive Laws he gave Moses, and send Jesus to die
on the cross, thus causing his laws to be no longer in effect..

He went from a jealous, demanding God in the hebrew Bible to a gentile,
Loving God in the NT, when Jesus was introduced..

He told Moses that his laws would last forever... and yet, when Jesus
arrives, he says he fulfills the laws, but he nullifies the laws of
unclean foods in Mark chapter 7.

Where in the old testament, does God tell anyone "One day, I, the Lord
your God, will send a messiah, to fulfill or nullify these laws"?

Nowhere in the OT is any indication that God planned to abolish his
laws. In fact, he set a list of curses at the end of his covenant to
ensure that his law was obeyed forever..

deut 28:45-46 -- All these curses will come upon you. They will pursue
you and overtake you until you are destroyed, because you did not obey
the LORD your God and observe the commands and decrees he gave you. 46
They will be a sign and a wonder to you and your descendants forever.


He gives blessings for obedience and curses for disobedience of the law
in Deut 28.

Deut 4:2 -- Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from
it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you.


He instructed them to live by the law as written, do not add or take
away. When Jesus comes along, he changes parts of the law. He takes
away the part of "unclean" foods. God said they would be in effect
forever, but that changes with Jesus. His only two commandments were
love God with all you heart, soul and mind.. and love your neighbor as
yourself. Jesus also worked on the sabbath, clearly going against the
law of God. Did Jesus nullify that one too?

Numbers 15:32-36 -- While the Israelites were in the desert, a man was
found gathering wood on the Sabbath day. 33 Those who found him
gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly,
34 and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should
be done to him. 35 Then the LORD said to Moses, "The man must die. The
whole assembly must stone him outside the camp." 36 So the assembly
took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the LORD
commanded Moses.


God punished those for breaking his commandments in the OT. This guy
was just gathering wood! he didn't kill anyone or anything like that.
And God told moses to kill him.
This is a Huge change from the God of the NT. He turned Lot's wife into
a pillar of salt just because she turned and looked.. *poof* her life
was ended.

deut 13:6-10 -- If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or
the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying,
"Let us go and worship other gods" (gods that neither you nor your
fathers have known, 8 do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no
pity. Do not spare him or shield him. 9 You must certainly put him to
death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then
the hands of all the people. 10 Stone him to death, because he tried to
turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out
of the land of slavery.


Anyone who says that the constitutional right to practise freedom of
religion comes from a christian background and beliefs, is nuts. They
should change it to say Freedom to practise the christian religion..
God said to stone and kill anyone trying to entice you to practice any
other religion... and yet one of his biggest Ten commandments is "thou
shalt not kill". Go figure.

Duet 21:18-21 -- If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does
not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they
discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and
bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to
the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not
obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." 21 Then all the men of his
town shall stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you.
All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.

God is more like the Godfather in the OT. To make sure the rest of the
nation is afraid, he is allowing parents to have their children stoned
to death for being stubborn and rebellious?
Over and over in the OT God says his laws are everlasting, or meant to
last forever.. Why then, without explanation or warning, do we have
Jesus come onto the scene and "fulfill" all those silly laws?
Christians adopted it as saying since Christ died for our sins, all the
laws that bound us (Paul's expression) are now no longer in effect..

What was the catalyst behind the sudden change in Jewish theology, from
the OT to the NT?

God was the same God throughout the Jewish Bible. He was good to his
people when it warranted it, but was brutal when he deemed it
necessary.
Even Preterists today believe he kept his word by cursing Israel during
their view of revelation. God allowed and Used the roman empire to
punish Israel for disobeying him.

Meanwhile, you have Jesus come to earth, and he is the prince of Peace?
His short ministry taught of a loving God and forgiving God. All they
have to do is call his name and be saved.. He taught that some of the
laws of Moses are no longer in effect.. yet years after his death, God
punishes the Jews (old testament style) in Jerusalem by allowing the
romans to fulfill revelation, by leveling Jerusalem and the temple.
Jesus is believed to be the "Lamb" of revelation. Jesus taught peace
and love in his life ministry. And now, we have him pouring out wrath
on the Jews?
meanwhile, all these gentiles, who the Jewish Bible has nothing to do
with, are given a free gift of salvation from this Jesus... Paul claims
he is sent to the gentiles from a "vision" of Jesus, while Jesus
himself, specifically told his apostles to NOT preach to the gentiles.
The old testament is clear on the laws for the Jews and it is clear
that these Jews are supposed to observe the laws forever. Moses tells
them God said they apply as an everlasting covenant to all generations
to come. In other words, he has spelled out the entire future for his
Jewish people. Nowhere in that book, does he say that at some point,
God would send his son to Die for their sins.
He maps out their whole lives with a binding law, but does NOT tell
them, or to tell their future generations, that God's son will
eventually come down and "take care" of the law by dying for mankind's
sin.
Jesus didn't fulfill the criteria for the "Jewish" Messiah, so they
rejected him. Meanwhile, the gentiles, along with a few Jewish
Christian followers, adopt Jesus anyway and make him out to be God.
They sprinkle in a few "traditions" like Baptism and the Eucharist that
came from pagan religions of the age.. and there we have a "new" side
of God. One that is nowhere near this way in the entire Jewish Bible.
At what point did the transition take place between the law (for
atonement for sins) and Jesus' "free" gift of salvation as atonement
for sins?

The referenced prophesies to a coming messiah was for a Jewish messiah
to bring their nation back to prominence... not to a saviour that would
save the world from sin.. How did that come about?


http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/­­web/faq/faq-tr.html


Bumper Sticker


DIVINE INSANITY
God killed himself on the cross to save his own creation fro­m his own
wrath ! (Author unknown)

The Law, and Jesus?



I am wondering how or why the God of the OT could change his mind about
the ceremonial and punitive Laws he gave Moses, and send Jesus to die
on the cross, thus causing his laws to be no longer in effect..

He went from a jealous, demanding God in the hebrew Bible to a gentile,
Loving God in the NT, when Jesus was introduced..

He told Moses that his laws would last forever... and yet, when Jesus
arrives, he says he fulfills the laws, but he nullifies the laws of
unclean foods in Mark chapter 7.