| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Truth Hunter" |
| Date: |
14 Apr 2004 07:49:01 PM |
| Object: |
The omniscient God ignorant of nothing.. |
The Omniscient is surprised
The Bible says that Jesus experiences all of the emotions of humans,
including anger, sadness, and happiness. We humans experience emotions
as a result of new knowledge. A man who had formerly been ignorant of
his wife's infidelity will experience the emotions of anger and
sadness only after he has learned what had previously been hidden. In
contrast, the omniscient God is ignorant of nothing. Nothing is hidden
from him, nothing new may be revealed to him, so there is no gained
knowledge to which he may react emotionally.
We humans experience anger and frustration when something is wrong
which we cannot fix. The perfect, omnipotent God, however, can fix
anything. Humans experience longing for things we lack. The perfect
God lacks nothing. An omniscient, omnipotent, and perfect God who
experiences emotion is impossible.
The conclusion of the matter
I have offered arguments for the impossibility, and thus the non-
existence, of the Christian God Jesus. No reasonable and free thinking
individual can accept the existence of a being whose nature is as
contradictory as that of Jesus.
Welcome To What Jews Believe
http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/
.
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| User: "Paul Laird" |
|
| Title: Re: The omniscient God ignorant of nothing.. |
14 Apr 2004 10:15:58 PM |
|
|
"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0404141649.6020103d@posting.google.com...
The Omniscient is surprised
The Bible says that Jesus experiences all of the emotions of humans,
including anger, sadness, and happiness. We humans experience emotions
as a result of new knowledge. A man who had formerly been ignorant of
his wife's infidelity will experience the emotions of anger and
sadness only after he has learned what had previously been hidden. In
contrast, the omniscient God is ignorant of nothing. Nothing is hidden
from him, nothing new may be revealed to him, so there is no gained
knowledge to which he may react emotionally.
We humans experience anger and frustration when something is wrong
which we cannot fix. The perfect, omnipotent God, however, can fix
anything. Humans experience longing for things we lack. The perfect
God lacks nothing. An omniscient, omnipotent, and perfect God who
experiences emotion is impossible.
The conclusion of the matter
I have offered arguments for the impossibility, and thus the non-
existence, of the Christian God Jesus. No reasonable and free thinking
individual can accept the existence of a being whose nature is as
contradictory as that of Jesus.
Welcome To What Jews Believe
http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/
Actually, all you've proven is your total inability to know or experience
anything outside the physical realm. Tis' a sad state of affairs in which
you live.
.
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
|
| Title: Re: The omniscient God ignorant of nothing.. |
14 Apr 2004 11:05:44 PM |
|
|
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Paul Laird:
"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0404141649.6020103d@posting.google.com...
The Omniscient is surprised
The Bible says that Jesus experiences all of the emotions of humans,
including anger, sadness, and happiness. We humans experience
emotions as a result of new knowledge. A man who had formerly been
ignorant of his wife's infidelity will experience the emotions of
anger and sadness only after he has learned what had previously been
hidden. In contrast, the omniscient God is ignorant of nothing.
Nothing is hidden from him, nothing new may be revealed to him, so
there is no gained knowledge to which he may react emotionally.
We humans experience anger and frustration when something is wrong
which we cannot fix. The perfect, omnipotent God, however, can fix
anything. Humans experience longing for things we lack. The perfect
God lacks nothing. An omniscient, omnipotent, and perfect God who
experiences emotion is impossible.
The conclusion of the matter
I have offered arguments for the impossibility, and thus the non-
existence, of the Christian God Jesus. No reasonable and free
thinking individual can accept the existence of a being whose nature
is as contradictory as that of Jesus.
Welcome To What Jews Believe
http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/
Actually, all you've proven is your total inability to know or
experience anything outside the physical realm. Tis' a sad state of
affairs in which you live.
How do you know there is something outside of the physical realm?
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________
Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day.
Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish.
--Timothy Jones
.
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| User: "Son of man" |
|
| Title: Re: The omniscient God ignorant of nothing.. |
14 Apr 2004 11:16:36 PM |
|
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"Vic Sagerquist" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94CBD6BDA75D0vicman@216.148.227.77...
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Paul Laird:
"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0404141649.6020103d@posting.google.com...
The Omniscient is surprised
The Bible says that Jesus experiences all of the emotions of humans,
including anger, sadness, and happiness. We humans experience
emotions as a result of new knowledge. A man who had formerly been
ignorant of his wife's infidelity will experience the emotions of
anger and sadness only after he has learned what had previously been
hidden. In contrast, the omniscient God is ignorant of nothing.
Nothing is hidden from him, nothing new may be revealed to him, so
there is no gained knowledge to which he may react emotionally.
We humans experience anger and frustration when something is wrong
which we cannot fix. The perfect, omnipotent God, however, can fix
anything. Humans experience longing for things we lack. The perfect
God lacks nothing. An omniscient, omnipotent, and perfect God who
experiences emotion is impossible.
The conclusion of the matter
I have offered arguments for the impossibility, and thus the non-
existence, of the Christian God Jesus. No reasonable and free
thinking individual can accept the existence of a being whose nature
is as contradictory as that of Jesus.
Welcome To What Jews Believe
http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/
Actually, all you've proven is your total inability to know or
experience anything outside the physical realm. Tis' a sad state of
affairs in which you live.
How do you know there is something outside of the physical realm?
Because I've seen Jesus and his mother Mary. They are alive and well.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________
Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day.
Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish.
--Timothy Jones
.
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| User: "Sara Brum" |
|
| Title: Re: The omniscient God ignorant of nothing.. |
15 Apr 2004 02:50:14 AM |
|
|
"Son of man" <thepuppetmaster@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:nWnfc.46081$Lh2.22133@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
"Vic Sagerquist" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94CBD6BDA75D0vicman@216.148.227.77...
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Paul Laird:
"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0404141649.6020103d@posting.google.com...
The Omniscient is surprised
The Bible says that Jesus experiences all of the emotions of humans,
including anger, sadness, and happiness. We humans experience
emotions as a result of new knowledge. A man who had formerly been
ignorant of his wife's infidelity will experience the emotions of
anger and sadness only after he has learned what had previously been
hidden. In contrast, the omniscient God is ignorant of nothing.
Nothing is hidden from him, nothing new may be revealed to him, so
there is no gained knowledge to which he may react emotionally.
We humans experience anger and frustration when something is wrong
which we cannot fix. The perfect, omnipotent God, however, can fix
anything. Humans experience longing for things we lack. The perfect
God lacks nothing. An omniscient, omnipotent, and perfect God who
experiences emotion is impossible.
The conclusion of the matter
I have offered arguments for the impossibility, and thus the non-
existence, of the Christian God Jesus. No reasonable and free
thinking individual can accept the existence of a being whose nature
is as contradictory as that of Jesus.
Welcome To What Jews Believe
http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/
Actually, all you've proven is your total inability to know or
experience anything outside the physical realm. Tis' a sad state of
affairs in which you live.
How do you know there is something outside of the physical realm?
Because I've seen Jesus and his mother Mary. They are alive and well.
That's nice. Prove it.
.
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
|
| Title: Re: The omniscient God ignorant of nothing.. |
15 Apr 2004 11:30:53 AM |
|
|
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Son of man:
"Vic Sagerquist" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94CBD6BDA75D0vicman@216.148.227.77...
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Paul Laird:
"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0404141649.6020103d@posting.google.com...
The Omniscient is surprised
The Bible says that Jesus experiences all of the emotions of humans,
including anger, sadness, and happiness. We humans experience
emotions as a result of new knowledge. A man who had formerly been
ignorant of his wife's infidelity will experience the emotions of
anger and sadness only after he has learned what had previously been
hidden. In contrast, the omniscient God is ignorant of nothing.
Nothing is hidden from him, nothing new may be revealed to him, so
there is no gained knowledge to which he may react emotionally.
We humans experience anger and frustration when something is wrong
which we cannot fix. The perfect, omnipotent God, however, can fix
anything. Humans experience longing for things we lack. The perfect
God lacks nothing. An omniscient, omnipotent, and perfect God who
experiences emotion is impossible.
The conclusion of the matter
I have offered arguments for the impossibility, and thus the non-
existence, of the Christian God Jesus. No reasonable and free
thinking individual can accept the existence of a being whose nature
is as contradictory as that of Jesus.
Welcome To What Jews Believe
http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/
Actually, all you've proven is your total inability to know or
experience anything outside the physical realm. Tis' a sad state of
affairs in which you live.
How do you know there is something outside of the physical realm?
Because I've seen Jesus and his mother Mary. They are alive and well.
Not bad for being dead for 2000 years.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
______________
Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day.
Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish.
--Timothy Jones
.
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| User: "bob young" |
|
| Title: Re: The omniscient God ignorant of nothing.. |
15 Apr 2004 04:58:06 AM |
|
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Son of man wrote:
"Vic Sagerquist" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94CBD6BDA75D0vicman@216.148.227.77...
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Paul Laird:
"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0404141649.6020103d@posting.google.com...
The Omniscient is surprised
The Bible says that Jesus experiences all of the emotions of humans,
including anger, sadness, and happiness. We humans experience
emotions as a result of new knowledge. A man who had formerly been
ignorant of his wife's infidelity will experience the emotions of
anger and sadness only after he has learned what had previously been
hidden. In contrast, the omniscient God is ignorant of nothing.
Nothing is hidden from him, nothing new may be revealed to him, so
there is no gained knowledge to which he may react emotionally.
We humans experience anger and frustration when something is wrong
which we cannot fix. The perfect, omnipotent God, however, can fix
anything. Humans experience longing for things we lack. The perfect
God lacks nothing. An omniscient, omnipotent, and perfect God who
experiences emotion is impossible.
The conclusion of the matter
I have offered arguments for the impossibility, and thus the non-
existence, of the Christian God Jesus. No reasonable and free
thinking individual can accept the existence of a being whose nature
is as contradictory as that of Jesus.
Welcome To What Jews Believe
http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/
Actually, all you've proven is your total inability to know or
experience anything outside the physical realm. Tis' a sad state of
affairs in which you live.
How do you know there is something outside of the physical realm?
Because I've seen Jesus and his mother Mary. They are alive and well....
Please send us the room number and the address of the 'secure hospital' that
you are in so we can send you a 'get well' card
Bob
Hong Kong
We can keep from a child all knowledge of earlier myths, but
we cannot take from him the need for mythology.
[Carl Jung, 1912]
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________
Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day.
Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish.
--Timothy Jones
.
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| User: "bob young" |
|
| Title: Re: The omniscient God ignorant of nothing.. |
15 Apr 2004 04:56:09 AM |
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Paul Laird wrote:
"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0404141649.6020103d@posting.google.com...
The Omniscient is surprised
The Bible says that Jesus experiences all of the emotions of humans,
including anger, sadness, and happiness. We humans experience emotions
as a result of new knowledge. A man who had formerly been ignorant of
his wife's infidelity will experience the emotions of anger and
sadness only after he has learned what had previously been hidden. In
contrast, the omniscient God is ignorant of nothing. Nothing is hidden
from him, nothing new may be revealed to him, so there is no gained
knowledge to which he may react emotionally.
We humans experience anger and frustration when something is wrong
which we cannot fix. The perfect, omnipotent God, however, can fix
anything. Humans experience longing for things we lack. The perfect
God lacks nothing. An omniscient, omnipotent, and perfect God who
experiences emotion is impossible.
The conclusion of the matter
I have offered arguments for the impossibility, and thus the non-
existence, of the Christian God Jesus. No reasonable and free thinking
individual can accept the existence of a being whose nature is as
contradictory as that of Jesus.
Welcome To What Jews Believe
http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/
Actually, all you've proven is your total inability to know or experience
anything outside the physical realm. Tis' a sad state of affairs in which
you live.
......anyone living on sentiment and by imagined spirits is indeed in a bad
way.
bob
A Brit.
Hong Kong
"Men become civilized not in their willingness to believe, but in proportion
to their readiness to doubt."
[H. L. Mencken]
.
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| User: "Son of man" |
|
| Title: Re: The omniscient God ignorant of nothing.. |
14 Apr 2004 08:00:09 PM |
|
|
"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0404141649.6020103d@posting.google.com...
The Omniscient is surprised
The Bible says that Jesus experiences all of the emotions of humans,
including anger, sadness, and happiness. We humans experience emotions
as a result of new knowledge. A man who had formerly been ignorant of
his wife's infidelity will experience the emotions of anger and
sadness only after he has learned what had previously been hidden. In
contrast, the omniscient God is ignorant of nothing. Nothing is hidden
from him, nothing new may be revealed to him, so there is no gained
knowledge to which he may react emotionally.
We humans experience anger and frustration when something is wrong
which we cannot fix. The perfect, omnipotent God, however, can fix
anything. Humans experience longing for things we lack. The perfect
God lacks nothing. An omniscient, omnipotent, and perfect God who
experiences emotion is impossible.
The conclusion of the matter
I have offered arguments for the impossibility, and thus the non-
existence, of the Christian God Jesus. No reasonable and free thinking
individual can accept the existence of a being whose nature is as
contradictory as that of Jesus.
I don't beleive in an all powerful or omniscient God. I do believe, however,
that life does continue after death and that humanity has some great
enlightened minds such as the Buddha, the Blessed One, and Jesus the Son of
the Blessed One (Mark:14:61-62). I believe Jesus was speaking to people who
already believed in God as fact and rather than try to tell them God didn't
exist which would have gotten him absoultely nowhere with the Jews, he tried
instead to give them a "God" worthy of their attention. The Buddha did claim
that he was the Highest and that there was also only one disciple who had
attained the same mastery and perfection of virtue and wisdom as he did whom
he called the true and lawful Son of the Blessed One.
I don't see the Christian God as all powerful or omniscient, however His
perfection of wisdom makes him far more capable at accomplishing things
which the regular run of the mill person of the world cannot.
I see Jesus and his Father as helpers of humanity, trying to lead them from
out of the snares and suffering of the world and into their everlasting
spiritual kingdom of joy and peace, where there is no more sorrow nor death
or rebirth into this world of stress and ignorance.
.
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| User: "scott" |
|
| Title: Re: The omniscient God ignorant of nothing.. |
14 Apr 2004 08:21:13 PM |
|
|
"Son of man" <thepuppetmaster@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:r6lfc.44879$oj6.26276@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0404141649.6020103d@posting.google.com...
The Omniscient is surprised
The Bible says that Jesus experiences all of the emotions of humans,
including anger, sadness, and happiness. We humans experience emotions
as a result of new knowledge. A man who had formerly been ignorant of
his wife's infidelity will experience the emotions of anger and
sadness only after he has learned what had previously been hidden. In
contrast, the omniscient God is ignorant of nothing. Nothing is hidden
from him, nothing new may be revealed to him, so there is no gained
knowledge to which he may react emotionally.
We humans experience anger and frustration when something is wrong
which we cannot fix. The perfect, omnipotent God, however, can fix
anything. Humans experience longing for things we lack. The perfect
God lacks nothing. An omniscient, omnipotent, and perfect God who
experiences emotion is impossible.
The conclusion of the matter
I have offered arguments for the impossibility, and thus the non-
existence, of the Christian God Jesus. No reasonable and free thinking
individual can accept the existence of a being whose nature is as
contradictory as that of Jesus.
I don't beleive in an all powerful or omniscient God. I do believe,
however,
that life does continue after death and that humanity has some great
enlightened minds such as the Buddha, the Blessed One, and Jesus the Son
of
the Blessed One (Mark:14:61-62). I believe Jesus was speaking to people
who
already believed in God as fact and rather than try to tell them God
didn't
exist which would have gotten him absoultely nowhere with the Jews, he
tried
instead to give them a "God" worthy of their attention. The Buddha did
claim
that he was the Highest and that there was also only one disciple who had
attained the same mastery and perfection of virtue and wisdom as he did
whom
he called the true and lawful Son of the Blessed One.
I don't see the Christian God as all powerful or omniscient, however His
perfection of wisdom makes him far more capable at accomplishing things
which the regular run of the mill person of the world cannot.
I see Jesus and his Father as helpers of humanity, trying to lead them
from
out of the snares and suffering of the world and into their everlasting
spiritual kingdom of joy and peace, where there is no more sorrow nor
death
or rebirth into this world of stress and ignorance.
How are things on Mars?
Scott Planet Earth
.
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| User: "Son of man" |
|
| Title: Re: The omniscient God ignorant of nothing.. |
14 Apr 2004 08:21:28 PM |
|
|
"scott" <BySSpam@nonoSpam.com> wrote in message
news:XeGdnSPl36cZfuDdRVn-sQ@intertex.net...
"Son of man" <thepuppetmaster@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:r6lfc.44879$oj6.26276@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0404141649.6020103d@posting.google.com...
The Omniscient is surprised
The Bible says that Jesus experiences all of the emotions of humans,
including anger, sadness, and happiness. We humans experience emotions
as a result of new knowledge. A man who had formerly been ignorant of
his wife's infidelity will experience the emotions of anger and
sadness only after he has learned what had previously been hidden. In
contrast, the omniscient God is ignorant of nothing. Nothing is hidden
from him, nothing new may be revealed to him, so there is no gained
knowledge to which he may react emotionally.
We humans experience anger and frustration when something is wrong
which we cannot fix. The perfect, omnipotent God, however, can fix
anything. Humans experience longing for things we lack. The perfect
God lacks nothing. An omniscient, omnipotent, and perfect God who
experiences emotion is impossible.
The conclusion of the matter
I have offered arguments for the impossibility, and thus the non-
existence, of the Christian God Jesus. No reasonable and free thinking
individual can accept the existence of a being whose nature is as
contradictory as that of Jesus.
I don't beleive in an all powerful or omniscient God. I do believe,
however,
that life does continue after death and that humanity has some great
enlightened minds such as the Buddha, the Blessed One, and Jesus the Son
of
the Blessed One (Mark:14:61-62). I believe Jesus was speaking to people
who
already believed in God as fact and rather than try to tell them God
didn't
exist which would have gotten him absoultely nowhere with the Jews, he
tried
instead to give them a "God" worthy of their attention. The Buddha did
claim
that he was the Highest and that there was also only one disciple who
had
attained the same mastery and perfection of virtue and wisdom as he did
whom
he called the true and lawful Son of the Blessed One.
I don't see the Christian God as all powerful or omniscient, however His
perfection of wisdom makes him far more capable at accomplishing things
which the regular run of the mill person of the world cannot.
I see Jesus and his Father as helpers of humanity, trying to lead them
from
out of the snares and suffering of the world and into their everlasting
spiritual kingdom of joy and peace, where there is no more sorrow nor
death
or rebirth into this world of stress and ignorance.
How are things on Mars?
Don't know...and don't really care.
Scott Planet Earth
.
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| User: "Rhyme" |
|
| Title: Re: The omniscient God ignorant of nothing.. |
20 Apr 2004 09:00:45 AM |
|
|
scott wrote:
"Son of man" <thepuppetmaster@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:r6lfc.44879$oj6.26276@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0404141649.6020103d@posting.google.com...
The Omniscient is surprised
The Bible says that Jesus experiences all of the emotions of humans,
including anger, sadness, and happiness. We humans experience emotions
as a result of new knowledge. A man who had formerly been ignorant of
his wife's infidelity will experience the emotions of anger and
sadness only after he has learned what had previously been hidden. In
contrast, the omniscient God is ignorant of nothing. Nothing is hidden
from him, nothing new may be revealed to him, so there is no gained
knowledge to which he may react emotionally.
We humans experience anger and frustration when something is wrong
which we cannot fix. The perfect, omnipotent God, however, can fix
anything. Humans experience longing for things we lack. The perfect
God lacks nothing. An omniscient, omnipotent, and perfect God who
experiences emotion is impossible.
The conclusion of the matter
I have offered arguments for the impossibility, and thus the non-
existence, of the Christian God Jesus. No reasonable and free thinking
individual can accept the existence of a being whose nature is as
contradictory as that of Jesus.
I don't beleive in an all powerful or omniscient God. I do believe,
however,
that life does continue after death and that humanity has some great
enlightened minds such as the Buddha, the Blessed One, and Jesus the Son
of
the Blessed One (Mark:14:61-62). I believe Jesus was speaking to people
who
already believed in God as fact and rather than try to tell them God
didn't
exist which would have gotten him absoultely nowhere with the Jews, he
tried
instead to give them a "God" worthy of their attention. The Buddha did
claim
that he was the Highest and that there was also only one disciple who had
attained the same mastery and perfection of virtue and wisdom as he did
whom
he called the true and lawful Son of the Blessed One.
I don't see the Christian God as all powerful or omniscient, however His
perfection of wisdom makes him far more capable at accomplishing things
which the regular run of the mill person of the world cannot.
I see Jesus and his Father as helpers of humanity, trying to lead them
from
out of the snares and suffering of the world and into their everlasting
spiritual kingdom of joy and peace, where there is no more sorrow nor
death
or rebirth into this world of stress and ignorance.
How are things on Mars?
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html
-Rhyme
.
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
|
| Title: Re: The omniscient God ignorant of nothing.. |
14 Apr 2004 11:01:54 PM |
|
|
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Son of man:
"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0404141649.6020103d@posting.google.com...
The Omniscient is surprised
The Bible says that Jesus experiences all of the emotions of humans,
including anger, sadness, and happiness. We humans experience
emotions as a result of new knowledge. A man who had formerly been
ignorant of his wife's infidelity will experience the emotions of
anger and sadness only after he has learned what had previously been
hidden. In contrast, the omniscient God is ignorant of nothing.
Nothing is hidden from him, nothing new may be revealed to him, so
there is no gained knowledge to which he may react emotionally.
We humans experience anger and frustration when something is wrong
which we cannot fix. The perfect, omnipotent God, however, can fix
anything. Humans experience longing for things we lack. The perfect
God lacks nothing. An omniscient, omnipotent, and perfect God who
experiences emotion is impossible.
The conclusion of the matter
I have offered arguments for the impossibility, and thus the non-
existence, of the Christian God Jesus. No reasonable and free
thinking individual can accept the existence of a being whose nature
is as contradictory as that of Jesus.
I don't beleive in an all powerful or omniscient God. I do believe,
however, that life does continue after death and that humanity has
some great enlightened minds such as the Buddha, the Blessed One, and
Jesus the Son of the Blessed One (Mark:14:61-62). I believe Jesus was
speaking to people who already believed in God as fact and rather than
try to tell them God didn't exist which would have gotten him
absoultely nowhere with the Jews, he tried instead to give them a
"God" worthy of their attention. The Buddha did claim that he was the
Highest and that there was also only one disciple who had attained the
same mastery and perfection of virtue and wisdom as he did whom he
called the true and lawful Son of the Blessed One.
I don't see the Christian God as all powerful or omniscient, however
His perfection of wisdom makes him far more capable at accomplishing
things which the regular run of the mill person of the world cannot.
I see Jesus and his Father as helpers of humanity, trying to lead them
from out of the snares and suffering of the world and into their
everlasting spiritual kingdom of joy and peace, where there is no more
sorrow nor death or rebirth into this world of stress and ignorance.
So? My daughter believes she is coming back as a pony.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________
Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day.
Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish.
--Timothy Jones
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| User: "Son of man" |
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| Title: Re: The omniscient God ignorant of nothing.. |
14 Apr 2004 08:03:43 PM |
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"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0404141649.6020103d@posting.google.com...
The Omniscient is surprised
The Bible says that Jesus experiences all of the emotions of humans,
including anger, sadness, and happiness. We humans experience emotions
as a result of new knowledge. A man who had formerly been ignorant of
his wife's infidelity will experience the emotions of anger and
sadness only after he has learned what had previously been hidden. In
contrast, the omniscient God is ignorant of nothing. Nothing is hidden
from him, nothing new may be revealed to him, so there is no gained
knowledge to which he may react emotionally.
So then how do you explain the God of Israel's jealousy and anger?
Numbers:25:11: Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest,
hath turned my wrath away from the children of Israel, while he was zealous
for my sake among them, that I consumed not the children of Israel in my
jealousy.
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| User: "Son of man" |
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| Title: Re: The omniscient God ignorant of nothing.. |
14 Apr 2004 08:19:45 PM |
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"Son of man" <thepuppetmaster@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:N9lfc.44898$oj6.4694@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0404141649.6020103d@posting.google.com...
The Omniscient is surprised
The Bible says that Jesus experiences all of the emotions of humans,
including anger, sadness, and happiness. We humans experience emotions
as a result of new knowledge. A man who had formerly been ignorant of
his wife's infidelity will experience the emotions of anger and
sadness only after he has learned what had previously been hidden. In
contrast, the omniscient God is ignorant of nothing. Nothing is hidden
from him, nothing new may be revealed to him, so there is no gained
knowledge to which he may react emotionally.
So then how do you explain the God of Israel's jealousy and anger?
Numbers:25:11: Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest,
hath turned my wrath away from the children of Israel, while he was
zealous
for my sake among them, that I consumed not the children of Israel in my
jealousy.
According to you he should never have become jealous or angry because he
should have known the outcome even before Phinehas murdered two people by
stabbing them both through their stomachs with a javelin, which the God of
Israel praised saying that Phinehas was zealous for his (God's) sake.
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: The omniscient God ignorant of nothing.. |
14 Apr 2004 11:03:23 PM |
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One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Son of man:
So then how do you explain the God of Israel's jealousy and anger?
Myths act at the whim of the author.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________
Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day.
Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish.
--Timothy Jones
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| User: "Marc Fleury" |
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| Title: Re: The omniscient God ignorant of nothing.. |
14 Apr 2004 10:25:23 PM |
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(Truth Hunter) wrote in
news:e164e783.0404141649.6020103d@posting.google.com:
The Omniscient is surprised
The Bible says that Jesus experiences all of the emotions of humans,
including anger, sadness, and happiness. ... the omniscient God is
ignorant of nothing. Nothing is hidden from him, nothing new may be
revealed to him, so there is no gained knowledge to which he may react
emotionally. I have offered arguments for the impossibility, and thus
the non- existence, of the Christian God Jesus. No reasonable and free
thinking individual can accept the existence of a being whose nature
is as contradictory as that of Jesus.
Who said that Jesus was omniscient?
--
Marc.
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| User: "Son of man" |
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| Title: Re: The omniscient God ignorant of nothing.. |
14 Apr 2004 10:44:03 PM |
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"Marc Fleury" <marcfleury@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:Xns94CBEE5C3FDF0marcfleurysympaticoc@207.35.177.135...
hunter77099@yahoo.com (Truth Hunter) wrote in
news:e164e783.0404141649.6020103d@posting.google.com:
The Omniscient is surprised
The Bible says that Jesus experiences all of the emotions of humans,
including anger, sadness, and happiness. ... the omniscient God is
ignorant of nothing. Nothing is hidden from him, nothing new may be
revealed to him, so there is no gained knowledge to which he may react
emotionally. I have offered arguments for the impossibility, and thus
the non- existence, of the Christian God Jesus. No reasonable and free
thinking individual can accept the existence of a being whose nature
is as contradictory as that of Jesus.
Who said that Jesus was omniscient?
Jesus sure didn't claim omniscience :
Mark:13:32: But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels
which are in heaven, *neither the Son*, *but the Father*.
Jesus admits he does not have all the knowledge of his Father who is greater
than all, or the Highest.
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| User: "Intasharib" |
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| Title: Re: The omniscient God ignorant of nothing.. |
27 Apr 2004 02:56:36 AM |
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(Truth Hunter) wrote in message news:<e164e783.0404141649.6020103d@posting.google.com>...
The Omniscient is surprised
The Bible says that Jesus experiences all of the emotions of humans,
including anger, sadness, and happiness.
And in the Old Testament Bible says God is angry (Deuteronomy, Psalm
7:11, etc. etc. etc.) and sad (Gen. 6:6, Isaiah 1:2), and happy
(Zephaniah 3:17, etc.)
We humans experience emotions
as a result of new knowledge.
Open an old scrap book with pictures of old friends and lost
relatives, and you will experience emotions - but no new knowledge.
Watch a favorite movie again, or read a favorite book again, or talk
with an old friend - nothing new here - but much emotion.
A man who had formerly been ignorant of
his wife's infidelity will experience the emotions of anger and
sadness only after he has learned what had previously been hidden. In
contrast, the omniscient God is ignorant of nothing.
Then why is God so grieved at the adultery of the people of Israel?
(Jeremiah ch. 22 & 30; Ezekiel 16 & 23; Hosea).
We humans experience anger and frustration when something is wrong
which we cannot fix. The perfect, omnipotent God, however, can fix
anything. Humans experience longing for things we lack. The perfect
God lacks nothing. An omniscient, omnipotent, and perfect God who
experiences emotion is impossible.
God is not going to "fix" your free will. But by your logic, rejecting
the gift of love and forgiveness offered by Jesus Christ is only
hurting yourself.
The conclusion of the matter
I have offered arguments for the impossibility, and thus the non-
existence, of the Christian God Jesus. No reasonable and free thinking
individual can accept the existence of a being whose nature is as
contradictory as that of Jesus.
You are fighting against God. Rejecting his Holy Word for "free
thinking" is your disgrace.
The old testament testifies to this - the Jews down through their own
history have always fought against God, to their hurt and shame.
Hope will be found for the Jews on the day they all turn to Jesus:
"And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy
all the nations that come against Jerusalem. And I will pour upon the
house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of
grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have
pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only
son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness
for his firstborn. In that day shall there be a great mourning in
Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon."
Zechariah 12:9-11
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| User: "bam" |
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| Title: Re: The omniscient God ignorant of nothing.. |
14 Apr 2004 10:16:08 PM |
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Once again, Truth Hunter does not tell us what Jews believe; he tells what
Jews *don't* believe.
And who cares? We already know.
BAM
"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0404141649.6020103d@posting.google.com...
The Omniscient is surprised
The Bible says that Jesus experiences all of the emotions of humans,
including anger, sadness, and happiness. We humans experience emotions
as a result of new knowledge. A man who had formerly been ignorant of
his wife's infidelity will experience the emotions of anger and
sadness only after he has learned what had previously been hidden. In
contrast, the omniscient God is ignorant of nothing. Nothing is hidden
from him, nothing new may be revealed to him, so there is no gained
knowledge to which he may react emotionally.
We humans experience anger and frustration when something is wrong
which we cannot fix. The perfect, omnipotent God, however, can fix
anything. Humans experience longing for things we lack. The perfect
God lacks nothing. An omniscient, omnipotent, and perfect God who
experiences emotion is impossible.
The conclusion of the matter
I have offered arguments for the impossibility, and thus the non-
existence, of the Christian God Jesus. No reasonable and free thinking
individual can accept the existence of a being whose nature is as
contradictory as that of Jesus.
Welcome To What Jews Believe
http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/
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| User: "Dixit" |
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| Title: Re: The omniscient God ignorant of nothing.. |
15 Apr 2004 01:18:45 PM |
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Truth Hunter wrote:
The Omniscient is surprised
The Bible says that Jesus experiences all of the emotions of humans,
including anger, sadness, and happiness. We humans experience emotions
as a result of new knowledge. A man who had formerly been ignorant of
his wife's infidelity will experience the emotions of anger and
sadness only after he has learned what had previously been hidden. In
contrast, the omniscient God is ignorant of nothing. Nothing is hidden
from him, nothing new may be revealed to him, so there is no gained
knowledge to which he may react emotionally.
We humans experience anger and frustration when something is wrong
which we cannot fix. The perfect, omnipotent God, however, can fix
anything. Humans experience longing for things we lack. The perfect
God lacks nothing. An omniscient, omnipotent, and perfect God who
experiences emotion is impossible.
The conclusion of the matter
I have offered arguments for the impossibility, and thus the non-
existence, of the Christian God Jesus. No reasonable and free thinking
individual can accept the existence of a being whose nature is as
contradictory as that of Jesus.
Welcome To What Jews Believe
http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/
The Jews' God, the hypothetical (speculative, 'might be' imagining)
first cause/creator of everything, cannot exist either.
There is no possibility that there might actually be such a thing as
God, the theists' hypothetical first cause/creator of everything, due to
the fatal problem (special pleading) inherent in the very idea of God,
which Russell points out:
"The argument that there must be a first cause is one that cannot have
any validity. If anything must have a cause, then God must have a cause.
If there can be anything without a cause, it may just as well be the
world [universe, everything that exists] as God." -- Lord Bertrand
Russell (1872 - 1970)
It's a very simple problem for anybody who still believes there might be one
anyway. All they have to do is come up with an argument for God, the
hypothetical first cause/creator of the universe, that does not run into
this fatal problem inherent in the very idea of it, which Russell points
out.
<cue the chirping crickets>
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| User: "grateful" |
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| Title: Re: The omniscient God ignorant of nothing.. |
15 Apr 2004 08:16:48 PM |
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Dixit <dix@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<9mAfc.43989$wP1.208045@attbi_s54>...
Truth Hunter wrote:
The Omniscient is surprised
The Bible says that Jesus experiences all of the emotions of humans,
including anger, sadness, and happiness. We humans experience emotions
as a result of new knowledge. A man who had formerly been ignorant of
his wife's infidelity will experience the emotions of anger and
sadness only after he has learned what had previously been hidden. In
contrast, the omniscient God is ignorant of nothing. Nothing is hidden
from him, nothing new may be revealed to him, so there is no gained
knowledge to which he may react emotionally.
We humans experience anger and frustration when something is wrong
which we cannot fix. The perfect, omnipotent God, however, can fix
anything. Humans experience longing for things we lack. The perfect
God lacks nothing. An omniscient, omnipotent, and perfect God who
experiences emotion is impossible.
The conclusion of the matter
I have offered arguments for the impossibility, and thus the non-
existence, of the Christian God Jesus. No reasonable and free thinking
individual can accept the existence of a being whose nature is as
contradictory as that of Jesus.
Welcome To What Jews Believe
http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/
The Jews' God, the hypothetical (speculative, 'might be' imagining)
first cause/creator of everything, cannot exist either.
There is no possibility that there might actually be such a thing as
God, the theists' hypothetical first cause/creator of everything, due to
the fatal problem (special pleading) inherent in the very idea of God,
which Russell points out:
"The argument that there must be a first cause is one that cannot have
any validity. If anything must have a cause, then God must have a cause.
If there can be anything without a cause, it may just as well be the
world [universe, everything that exists] as God." -- Lord Bertrand
Russell (1872 - 1970)
But can the universe exist without a first cause? You can't prove that
it can or has. The First Cause argument does not rest on the premise
that everything must have a cause. If anything/something is self-
existent then that anything/something exists without a cause.
Prove the universe is self-existent. Too, the fact that Russell uses
language such as this, "There is no reason why the world 'could not
have _come into being_ without a cause'" is faulty. Self-creation is
patently absurd, it has no rational basis in fact.
It's a very simple problem for anybody who still believes there might be one
anyway. All they have to do is come up with an argument for God, the
hypothetical first cause/creator of the universe, that does not run into
this fatal problem inherent in the very idea of it, which Russell points
out.
<cue the chirping crickets>
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| User: "Jos Flachs" |
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| Title: Re: The omniscient God ignorant of nothing.. |
16 Apr 2004 11:11:39 PM |
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On 15 Apr 2004 18:16:48 -0700, (grateful)
wrote:
But can the universe exist without a first cause?
How can a god?
Prove the universe is self-existent.
Prove a god self is self-existent.
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| User: "walksalone" |
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| Title: Re: The omniscient God ignorant of nothing.. |
15 Apr 2004 10:48:45 PM |
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On 15 Apr 2004 18:16:48 -0700, grateful wrote:
Dixit <dix@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<9mAfc.43989$wP1.208045@attbi_s54>...
Truth Hunter wrote:
The Omniscient is surprised
The Bible says that Jesus experiences all of the emotions of humans,
including anger, sadness, and happiness. We humans experience emotions
as a result of new knowledge. A man who had formerly been ignorant of
his wife's infidelity will experience the emotions of anger and
sadness only after he has learned what had previously been hidden. In
contrast, the omniscient God is ignorant of nothing. Nothing is hidden
from him, nothing new may be revealed to him, so there is no gained
knowledge to which he may react emotionally.
We humans experience anger and frustration when something is wrong
which we cannot fix. The perfect, omnipotent God, however, can fix
anything. Humans experience longing for things we lack. The perfect
God lacks nothing. An omniscient, omnipotent, and perfect God who
experiences emotion is impossible.
The conclusion of the matter
I have offered arguments for the impossibility, and thus the non-
existence, of the Christian God Jesus. No reasonable and free thinking
individual can accept the existence of a being whose nature is as
contradictory as that of Jesus.
Welcome To What Jews Believe
http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/
The Jews' God, the hypothetical (speculative, 'might be' imagining)
first cause/creator of everything, cannot exist either.
There is no possibility that there might actually be such a thing as
God, the theists' hypothetical first cause/creator of everything, due to
the fatal problem (special pleading) inherent in the very idea of God,
which Russell points out:
"The argument that there must be a first cause is one that cannot have
any validity. If anything must have a cause, then God must have a cause.
If there can be anything without a cause, it may just as well be the
world [universe, everything that exists] as God." -- Lord Bertrand
Russell (1872 - 1970)
But can the universe exist without a first cause? You can't prove that
Yes, there is o requirement for a creator for the universe. We already know
that when El arrived, the universe existed. Granted it is claimed that it
was without form, even though no one can know. But it did exist according
to the Torah.
it can or has. The First Cause argument does not rest on the premise
But it does, otherwise you are attempting to exclude your gods from the
same conditions you assume are needed for the universe. Obviously you have
not thought that conflict in assumptions out.
that everything must have a cause. If anything/something is self-
existent then that anything/something exists without a cause.
If frogs had wings, would they bump their ***** when they hopped. That is
shaky assumptions on your part. Nothing new according to your posts, but
thinking it is not.
Prove the universe is self-existent. Too, the fact that Russell uses
Be glad to, just as soon as you establish a logical reason your gods are
exempt from the creator requirements you assume apply to the universe. Go
ahead, the podium is yours once I send this.
language such as this, "There is no reason why the world 'could not
have _come into being_ without a cause'" is faulty. Self-creation is
patently absurd, it has no rational basis in fact.
Then it is patently absurd for your gods as well. But then, you assume that
everyone will fall all over themselves in agreeing with your assumptions.
Just another erroneous assumption on your part.
snip
walksalone who does not expect the not so grateful crossposter to
understand why his circular argument & begging for special exceptions is
less than impressive to people that have rebutted his assumptions for to
many repetitions.
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| User: "wbarwell" |
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| Title: Re: The omniscient God ignorant of nothing.. |
15 Apr 2004 08:45:23 PM |
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walksalone wrote:
On 15 Apr 2004 18:16:48 -0700, grateful wrote:
Dixit <dix@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:<9mAfc.43989$wP1.208045@attbi_s54>...
Truth Hunter wrote:
Welcome To What Jews Believe
http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/
Yes, there is o requirement for a creator for the universe. We already
know that when El arrived, the universe existed. Granted it is claimed
that it was without form, even though no one can know. But it did exist
according to the Torah.
According to Hesiod, the Greek gods formed out of the primal Chaos
starting with the Titans and their progeny, from which came the Olympians
gods who defeated and banished or destroed the Titans and their
earlier children.
Thus the basic religions that have given us the Greek Philosopher gods and
the Bible gods have the same problem, where did the Chaos come from,
where did God come from?
What makes an eternal uncreated god superior to an eternal chaos
which can generate gods like medieval philosphers thought rotting meat
generated maggots?
Discounting the general bias toward god whom we are taught to regard highly
from a young age whether he deserves it or not.
it can or has. The First Cause argument does not rest on the premise
But it does, otherwise you are attempting to exclude your gods from the
same conditions you assume are needed for the universe. Obviously you have
not thought that conflict in assumptions out.
that everything must have a cause. If anything/something is self-
existent then that anything/something exists without a cause.
If frogs had wings, would they bump their ***** when they hopped. That is
shaky assumptions on your part. Nothing new according to your posts, but
thinking it is not.
Prove the universe is self-existent. Too, the fact that Russell uses
Be glad to, just as soon as you establish a logical reason your gods are
exempt from the creator requirements you assume apply to the universe. Go
ahead, the podium is yours once I send this.
language such as this, "There is no reason why the world 'could not
have _come into being_ without a cause'" is faulty. Self-creation is
patently absurd, it has no rational basis in fact.
Then it is patently absurd for your gods as well. But then, you assume
that everyone will fall all over themselves in agreeing with your
assumptions. Just another erroneous assumption on your part.
snip
walksalone who does not expect the not so grateful crossposter to
understand why his circular argument & begging for special exceptions is
less than impressive to people that have rebutted his assumptions for to
many repetitions.
--
"I was not prepared to shoot my eardrum out with a shotgun
in order to get a deferment. Nor was I willing to go to
Canada. So I chose to better myself and learn to fly airplanes."
- George W. Bush May 1984 to the Houston Chronicle
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "walksalone" |
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| Title: Re: The omniscient God ignorant of nothing.. |
16 Apr 2004 12:21:34 PM |
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On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 21:45:23 -0400, wbarwell wrote:
walksalone wrote:
On 15 Apr 2004 18:16:48 -0700, grateful wrote:
Dixit <dix@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:<9mAfc.43989$wP1.208045@attbi_s54>...
Truth Hunter wrote:
Welcome To What Jews Believe
http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/
Yes, there is o requirement for a creator for the universe. We already
know that when El arrived, the universe existed. Granted it is claimed
that it was without form, even though no one can know. But it did exist
according to the Torah.
According to Hesiod, the Greek gods formed out of the primal Chaos
starting with the Titans and their progeny, from which came the Olympians
gods who defeated and banished or destroed the Titans and their
earlier children.
Strange how in the Mediterranean basin that is a common theme, A primordial
watery something, from the Abzu to the Nun, it is a common theme.
Thus the basic religions that have given us the Greek Philosopher gods and
the Bible gods have the same problem, where did the Chaos come from,
where did God come from?
If I tell you, will I have to shoot you. Is it a Silitary Mecret?
What makes an eternal uncreated god superior to an eternal chaos
which can generate gods like medieval philosphers thought rotting meat
generated maggots?
Though not addressed to me, nothing.
Discounting the general bias toward god whom we are taught to regard highly
from a young age whether he deserves it or not.
snip, of course.
Water does play a central part of the creation mythology's of the world,
especially the mid east. Just as supreme gods are found in Africa, so they
are in the mid-east. Nothing really strange about it, but it will always be
a source of confusion to those that do not think for themselves.
walksalone who is not so certain but the mid-eastern version of the
primordial waters may have come from India.
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| User: "Dixit" |
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| Title: Re: The omniscient God ignorant of nothing.. |
16 Apr 2004 10:30:29 AM |
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grateful wrote:
Dixit <dix@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<9mAfc.43989$wP1.208045@attbi_s54>...
Truth Hunter wrote:
I have offered arguments for the impossibility, and thus the non-
existence, of the Christian God Jesus. No reasonable and free thinking
individual can accept the existence of a being whose nature is as
contradictory as that of Jesus.
Welcome To What Jews Believe
http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/
The Jews' God, the hypothetical (speculative, 'might be' imagining)
first cause/creator of everything, cannot exist either.
There is no possibility that there might actually be such a thing as
God, the theists' hypothetical first cause/creator of everything, due to
the fatal problem (special pleading) inherent in the very idea of God,
which Russell points out:
"The argument that there must be a first cause is one that cannot have
any validity. If anything must have a cause, then God must have a cause.
If there can be anything without a cause, it may just as well be the
world [universe, everything that exists] as God." -- Lord Bertrand
Russell (1872 - 1970)
But can the universe exist without a first cause? You can't prove that
it can or has.
Don't have to. The burden of proof cannot be shifted to the atheists.
Atheists have nothing (no thing) to prove, theists do.
The First Cause argument does not rest on the premise
that everything must have a cause. If anything/something is self-
existent then that anything/something exists without a cause.
Prove the universe is self-existent.
There you go again, trying to get away with shifting the burden of proof
to atheists who have nothing (no thing) to prove, only theists do in
this case.
Too, the fact that Russell uses
language such as this, "There is no reason why the world 'could not
have _come into being_ without a cause'" is faulty. ...
Straw man. Russell says nothing about the universe coming into being.
See above. What Russell actually says is, "If there can be anything
without a cause, it may just as well be the world [universe, everything
that exists] as God."
What you are doing is trying to get away with a special pleading for
God. That isn't allowed. You have to be logically consistent throughout
your argument for the existence of your hypothetical thing, you cannot
get away with entering a special pleading for that one thing, God, the
hypothetical first cause. Understand this principle fo valid argument
(logic)?
.
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| User: "grateful" |
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| Title: Re: The omniscient God ignorant of nothing.. |
17 Apr 2004 10:18:25 PM |
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Dixit <dix@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<p_Sfc.3822$aM4.12850@attbi_s53>...
grateful wrote:
Dixit <dix@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<9mAfc.43989$wP1.208045@attbi_s54>...
Truth Hunter wrote:
I have offered arguments for the impossibility, and thus the non-
existence, of the Christian God Jesus. No reasonable and free thinking
individual can accept the existence of a being whose nature is as
contradictory as that of Jesus.
Welcome To What Jews Believe
http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/
The Jews' God, the hypothetical (speculative, 'might be' imagining)
first cause/creator of everything, cannot exist either.
There is no possibility that there might actually be such a thing as
God, the theists' hypothetical first cause/creator of everything, due to
the fatal problem (special pleading) inherent in the very idea of God,
which Russell points out:
"The argument that there must be a first cause is one that cannot have
any validity. If anything must have a cause, then God must have a cause.
If there can be anything without a cause, it may just as well be the
world [universe, everything that exists] as God." -- Lord Bertrand
Russell (1872 - 1970)
But can the universe exist without a first cause? You can't prove that
it can or has.
Don't have to. The burden of proof cannot be shifted to the atheists.
Atheists have nothing (no thing) to prove, theists do.
The First Cause argument does not rest on the premise
that everything must have a cause. If anything/something is self-
existent then that anything/something exists without a cause.
Prove the universe is self-existent.
There you go again, trying to get away with shifting the burden of proof
to atheists who have nothing (no thing) to prove, only theists do in
this case.
Too, the fact that Russell uses
language such as this, "There is no reason why the world 'could not
have _come into being_ without a cause'" is faulty. ...
Straw man. Russell says nothing about the universe coming into being.
See above. What Russell actually says is, "If there can be anything
without a cause, it may just as well be the world [universe, everything
that exists] as God."
"The argument is really no better than that. There is no reason why
the world could not have come into being without a cause; nor, on the
other hand, is there any reason why it should not have always existed.
There is no reason to suppose that the world had a beginning at all.
The idea that things must have a beginning is really due to the
poverty of ourimagination. Therefore, perhaps I need not waste any
more time upon the argument of the First Cause."
B. Russell [end of quote] "Why I Am Not A Christian," etc.
So which is it, no reason the world could not have come into being
without a cause, or no reason the world can't be self-existent?
These are two very different claims. Is it self-creation, a logical
impossibility, or a self- existent world?
Russell goes on to state, "Moreover, if you accept the ordinary laws
of science, you have to suppose that human life and life in general on
this planet will die out in due course: it is a stage in the decay of
the solar system; at a certain stage of decay you get the sort of
conditions of temperature and so forth which are suitable to
protoplasm, and there is life for a short time in the life of the
whole solar system. You see in the moon the sort of thing to which
the earth is tending–something dead, cold, and lifeless...Therefore
although it is of course a gloomy view to suppose that life will die
out–at least I suppose we may say so, although sometimes when I
contemplate the things that people do with their lives I think it is
almost a consolation–it is not
such as to render life miserable. It merely makes you turn your
attention to other things."
B. Russell-"Why I Am Not a Christian,"etc.
Well, since that which is self-existent is also eternal, it certainly
appears from the quotes above that Russell did not believe in an
eternal world. Instead he opted for self-creation which is falsified
by the law on non-contradiction.
A self-caused world would have to have the power to cause itself
before it existed,it would have to have the power of being before it
had any being with which to exercise such power. Reason has to reject
such nonsense.
What you are doing is trying to get away with a special pleading for
God. That isn't allowed. You have to be logically consistent throughout
your argument for the existence of your hypothetical thing, you cannot
get away with entering a special pleading for that one thing, God, the
hypothetical first cause. Understand this principle fo valid argument
(logic)?
The irony!
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| User: "Tiger" |
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| Title: Re: The omniscient God ignorant of nothing.. |
17 Apr 2004 11:02:34 PM |
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(grateful) wrote in
news:13f2c124.0404171918.5eee4eeb@posting.google.com:
A self-caused world would have to have the power to cause itself
before it existed,it would have to have the power of being before
it had any being with which to exercise such power. Reason has to
reject such nonsense.
You might find it interesting to read Henry Stapp. He's quite
convinced that the EPR experiment lends strong credence to the view
that the universe is non-local. IOW, what we see (matter) has its
origin outside of time and space. His views are similar to those of
David Bohm, who wrote the definitive text on quantum physics and
worked closely with Einstein.
--
Tiger
[Insert humorous, clever or profound quote here]
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| User: "grateful" |
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| Title: Re: The omniscient God ignorant of nothing.. |
19 Apr 2004 02:21:55 PM |
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Tiger <Tiger@box.invalid> wrote in message news:<Xns94CF70AF12jefscrrcom@24.25.9.41>...
crossroads1991@aol.com (grateful) wrote in
news:13f2c124.0404171918.5eee4eeb@posting.google.com:
A self-caused world would have to have the power to cause itself
before it existed,it would have to have the power of being before
it had any being with which to exercise such power. Reason has to
reject such nonsense.
You might find it interesting to read Henry Stapp. He's quite
convinced that the EPR experiment lends strong credence to the view
that the universe is non-local. IOW, what we see (matter) has its
origin outside of time and space. His views are similar to those of
David Bohm, who wrote the definitive text on quantum physics and
worked closely with Einstein.
Quantum physics is a theoretical science that deals with unobservable
entities. The universe is observable and is not analogous to a virtual
particle. There are those who want to find an exception to the causal
principle in an attempt to exclude God from any consideration.
Virtual just isn't quite the real thing. And something still can't
cease to exist and yet exist simultaneously, and in the same
relationship.
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| User: "Tiger" |
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| Title: Re: The omniscient God ignorant of nothing.. |
19 Apr 2004 03:11:46 PM |
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(grateful) wrote in
news:13f2c124.0404191121.23b30cef@posting.google.com:
Tiger <Tiger@box.invalid> wrote in message
news:<Xns94CF70AF12jefscrrcom@24.25.9.41>...
(grateful) wrote in
news:13f2c124.0404171918.5eee4eeb@posting.google.com:
A self-caused world would have to have the power to cause
itself before it existed,it would have to have the power of
being before it had any being with which to exercise such
power. Reason has to reject such nonsense.
You might find it interesting to read Henry Stapp. He's quite
convinced that the EPR experiment lends strong credence to the
view that the universe is non-local. IOW, what we see (matter)
has its origin outside of time and space. His views are similar
to those of David Bohm, who wrote the definitive text on quantum
physics and worked closely with Einstein.
Quantum physics is a theoretical science that deals with
unobservable entities. The universe is observable and is not
analogous to a virtual particle. There are those who want to find
an exception to the causal principle in an attempt to exclude God
from any consideration.
Can you comprehend what you read? Sheesh.
--
Tiger
[Insert humorous, clever or profound quote here]
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