The Parable of the Detectives....



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "C.J.W."
Date: 11 Jan 2005 09:57:24 PM
Object: The Parable of the Detectives....
Once upon a time there was a group of twelve detectives
who were called to a complicated crime scene. There were
some different groups of witnesses to the crime, as well as
some forensic evidence. There were also two suspects,
one guilty and one innocent.
Two detectives immediately went and began trying to
assemble the basic story of what happened from the
different groups of witnesses.
One of the other ten said, "We can't go by eye-witness testimony
at all. It's notoriously unreliable. We should not even talk
with
the witnesses, lest our forensic analysis be slanted by that.
We're
detectives. Let's just look at the facts!"
Another murmured, "Detectives....yes, the detectivity of us!"
To
which another replied, "Yes, observation and facts. That's like
science.
And science is good, so science has to have the answers." So
another
picked up a bit of dirt on the scene and studied it carefully.
Then he tasted a little of it and said, "I do detect...that this
tastes like.....dirt!" And another detective scribbled down,
"The dirt tastes like....dirt." One of the detectives peered
over his shoulder as he wrote.
The writer looked up at him and said, "Why are you
peering at me?"
"I'm not, I'm peering at what you are writing."
"We should call that peer review! I think I shall go report
on what we detectives have detected here, especially now
that you have peered at it."
So those two detectives left to go publish their findings.
The first two detectives came back to the others and one said,
"I
think we have the general story down and the facts here do not
contradict it. In fact, they support it. Look at those
footprints,
they are the first suspect's size and match his weight, as
well."
The other detectives replied, "What? You're not real detecting
detectives as we are. Just look at what we can detect!" as
one picked up a piece of grass and studied it carefully. Then
he
sniffed it and said, "This smells like....grass!" Another wrote
that down as a detective peered over his shoulder.
Then the group looked at the footprints in the grass and
dirt that the other two detectives had pointed them to.
Then one said, "I detect....grass and dirt! That's all we
*real*
detectives have detected and written about. So that's all that
real detecting detectives like us should be allowed to see!
You two aren't really REAL detectives, like we are.
Just look at the science of us!"
Fortunately, the crowd generally believed the two detectives
who had made an effort to assemble the whole story. Those
who pursued the truth and not those driven by a vanity about
being detectives. For if the detectives more interested in
their
own detections than the truth had been listened to,
an innocent man would have been condemned
and the guilty set free.
The two detectives who got to the truth never were
called "real" detectives by the group, but they got to
the truth. And that was all that mattered to them.
http://mynym.blogspot.com/2005/01/detectives.html#comments
--
--W
http://mynym.blogspot.com/
.

User: "Chris Thompson"

Title: Re: The Parable of the Detectives.... 12 Jan 2005 05:18:07 PM
"C.J.W." <watt2020@bellatlantic.net> wrote in
news:41E4521E.58A40564@bellatlantic.net:
[...]
Wow. What a poorly written piece of utterly boring garbage.
Did you do it all by yourself?
--
Chris
aa#2186
Black helicopter mind-control-ray door-gunner
=====
"We are all capable of believing things which we know to be untrue, and
then, when we are finally proved wrong, impudently twisting the facts so
as to show that we were right. Intellectually, it is possible to carry
on this process for an indefinite time: the only check on it is that
sooner or later a false belief bumps up against solid reality, usually
on a battlefield." --George Orwell, 1946, "Under Your Nose"
.

User: "Pfusand"

Title: Re: The Parable of the Detectives.... 12 Jan 2005 05:27:30 PM
C.J.W. wrote:

Once upon a time there was a group of twelve detectives
who were called to a complicated crime scene. ...

Garbage snipped.
If you want to write about real detectives, you should read a book with
a title like _Fundamentals of Criminal Investigation_ or _An
Introduction to Criminalistics_ as I did.
Or, if you'd like to do something more Biblical, study the detective
work of Daniel. I recommend the story, "Susannah and the Elders", but
"Bel and the Dragon" works too.
P.S. A *real* writer can take literary criticism. I've seen it.
Pfusand
That which does not destroy us
has made its last mistake.
-- Unspoken motto of the pantope crew
.

User: ""

Title: Re: The Parable of the Detectives.... 11 Jan 2005 10:44:03 PM
C.J.W. wrote:

Once upon a time there was a group of twelve detectives
who were called to a complicated crime scene. There were
some different groups of witnesses to the crime, as well as
some forensic evidence. There were also two suspects,
one guilty and one innocent.

Two detectives immediately went and began trying to
assemble the basic story of what happened from the
different groups of witnesses.

One of the other ten said, "We can't go by eye-witness testimony

at all. It's notoriously unreliable. We should not even talk
with
the witnesses, lest our forensic analysis be slanted by that.
We're
detectives. Let's just look at the facts!"

Another murmured, "Detectives....yes, the detectivity of us!"
To
which another replied, "Yes, observation and facts. That's like
science.
And science is good, so science has to have the answers." So
another
picked up a bit of dirt on the scene and studied it carefully.
Then he tasted a little of it and said, "I do detect...that this

tastes like.....dirt!" And another detective scribbled down,
"The dirt tastes like....dirt." One of the detectives peered
over his shoulder as he wrote.

The writer looked up at him and said, "Why are you
peering at me?"

"I'm not, I'm peering at what you are writing."

"We should call that peer review! I think I shall go report
on what we detectives have detected here, especially now
that you have peered at it."

So those two detectives left to go publish their findings.

The first two detectives came back to the others and one said,
"I
think we have the general story down and the facts here do not
contradict it. In fact, they support it. Look at those
footprints,
they are the first suspect's size and match his weight, as
well."

The other detectives replied, "What? You're not real detecting
detectives as we are. Just look at what we can detect!" as
one picked up a piece of grass and studied it carefully. Then
he
sniffed it and said, "This smells like....grass!" Another wrote

that down as a detective peered over his shoulder.

Then the group looked at the footprints in the grass and
dirt that the other two detectives had pointed them to.
Then one said, "I detect....grass and dirt! That's all we
*real*
detectives have detected and written about. So that's all that
real detecting detectives like us should be allowed to see!
You two aren't really REAL detectives, like we are.
Just look at the science of us!"

Fortunately, the crowd generally believed the two detectives
who had made an effort to assemble the whole story. Those
who pursued the truth and not those driven by a vanity about
being detectives. For if the detectives more interested in
their
own detections than the truth had been listened to,
an innocent man would have been condemned
and the guilty set free.

The two detectives who got to the truth never were
called "real" detectives by the group, but they got to
the truth. And that was all that mattered to them.
http://mynym.blogspot.com/2005/01/detectives.html#comments
--
--W
http://mynym.blogspot.com/

So, you believe every rumor you've ever heard?
If not, how do you reject the ones you don't believe - do you find them
unbelievable, in light of the facts that you know?
If a detective holds a clue in front of you, do you say "No! Not that!
That can't be true! I'm not listening, nyanya nyanya!"?
Do you disaprove of releasing men convicted and jailed for rape or
murder, when new genetic analysis proves they were innocent? Despite
having been convicted (usually) on *testimony, when the arguments in
court were of the nature of "they were the type, they had opportunity"
(aka "isn't it obvious")?
Kermit
.

User: "Don Kresch"

Title: Re: The Parable of the Detectives.... 12 Jan 2005 05:24:18 AM
In alt.atheism on Tue, 11 Jan 2005 21:57:24 +0000 (UTC), "C.J.W."
<watt2020@bellatlantic.net> let us all know that:
Once upon a time, there was an idiot who thought that he could
compare the claim that god exists with scientific inquiry, and that
scientific inquiry somehow had an a priori bias against god. Much to
the idiot's dismay, no one believed his line of *****.
The end.
Don
---
aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man"
.

User: ""

Title: Re: The Parable of the Detectives.... 12 Jan 2005 12:47:00 PM
Once upon a time there were some detectives and they came across a
crime. One of the detectives decided to look at the evidence he could
find and come up with a plausible idea of who committed the crime. The
other detectives decided to look in a book that was written 2000 years
ago to see if that told them who committed the crime. They also asked
their pastor, who was in Baltimore when the crime occurred in London.
Who do you think got the criminal?
.
User: "Nantko Schanssema"

Title: Re: The Parable of the Detectives.... 12 Jan 2005 12:57:33 PM
Donalbain@gmail.com:



Once upon a time there were some detectives and they came across a
crime. One of the detectives decided to look at the evidence he could
find and come up with a plausible idea of who committed the crime. The
other detectives decided to look in a book that was written 2000 years
ago to see if that told them who committed the crime. They also asked
their pastor, who was in Baltimore when the crime occurred in London.
Who do you think got the criminal?

The butler?
regards,
Nantko
--
The invisible and the nonexistent look very much alike. (Delos McKown)
http://www.xs4all.nl/~nantko/
.
User: "Christopher A. Lee"

Title: Re: The Parable of the Detectives.... 12 Jan 2005 01:01:33 PM
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 12:57:33 +0000 (UTC), Nantko Schanssema
<nantko@xs4all.nl> wrote:

Donalbain@gmail.com:



Once upon a time there were some detectives and they came across a
crime. One of the detectives decided to look at the evidence he could
find and come up with a plausible idea of who committed the crime. The
other detectives decided to look in a book that was written 2000 years
ago to see if that told them who committed the crime. They also asked
their pastor, who was in Baltimore when the crime occurred in London.
Who do you think got the criminal?


The butler?

No, he did it.
.
User: "Harry F. Leopold"

Title: Re: The Parable of the Detectives.... 12 Jan 2005 03:46:11 PM
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 07:01:33 -0600, Christopher A. Lee wrote
(in article <059au0dklqtgs5ah86493bns83qcgr8kqv@4ax.com>):

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 12:57:33 +0000 (UTC), Nantko Schanssema
<nantko@xs4all.nl> wrote:

Donalbain@gmail.com:



Once upon a time there were some detectives and they came across a
crime. One of the detectives decided to look at the evidence he could
find and come up with a plausible idea of who committed the crime. The
other detectives decided to look in a book that was written 2000 years
ago to see if that told them who committed the crime. They also asked
their pastor, who was in Baltimore when the crime occurred in London.
Who do you think got the criminal?


The butler?


No, he did it.


But that means that the butler got the criminal, and the criminal won't ever
get away from himself being himself.
;-)
--
Harry F. Leopold
aa #2076
AA/Vet #4
The Prints of Darkness
(remove gene to email)
Cthulhu saves our souls and redeems them for valuable coupons later.
.
User: "Al Klein"

Title: Re: The Parable of the Detectives.... 13 Jan 2005 01:29:15 AM
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 15:46:11 +0000 (UTC), "Harry F. Leopold"
<hleopold@coxyx.net> said in alt.atheism:

But that means that the butler got the criminal, and the criminal won't ever
get away from himself being himself.

Wow. That's tortuous enough to be part of Christianity. Like a god
that has to sacrifice himself to himself so ...
--
"Atheism is the world of reality, it is reason, it is freedom. Atheism is human
concern, and intellectual honesty to a degree that the religious mind cannot
begin to understand. And yet it is more than this. Atheism is not an old
religion, it is not a new and coming religion, in fact it is not, and never has
been, a religion at all. The definition of Atheism is magnificent in its
simplicity: Atheism is merely the bed-rock of sanity in a world of madness."
[Atheism: An Affirmative View, by Emmett F. Fields]
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
.
User: "Harry F. Leopold"

Title: Re: The Parable of the Detectives.... 13 Jan 2005 03:19:58 PM
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 19:29:15 -0600, Al Klein wrote
(in article <tskbu0t5moh3kvrumv8b9jcer0r1uaj11i@4ax.com>):

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 15:46:11 +0000 (UTC), "Harry F. Leopold"
<hleopold@coxyx.net> said in alt.atheism:

But that means that the butler got the criminal, and the criminal won't
ever
get away from himself being himself.


Wow. That's tortuous enough to be part of Christianity. Like a god
that has to sacrifice himself to himself so ...

Where did you think I stole the idea from? ;-)
--
Harry F. Leopold
aa #2076
AA/Vet #4
The Prints of Darkness
(remove gene to email)
³Itıs not over till the fat whale sings.²
.






User: "K.C."

Title: Re: The Parable of the Detectives.... 18 Jan 2005 06:21:04 PM
What does this have to do with the belief there is no God (atheism)?
C.J.W. wrote:

Once upon a time there was a group of twelve detectives
who were called to a complicated crime scene. There were
some different groups of witnesses to the crime, as well as
some forensic evidence. There were also two suspects,
one guilty and one innocent.

Two detectives immediately went and began trying to
assemble the basic story of what happened from the
different groups of witnesses.

One of the other ten said, "We can't go by eye-witness testimony

at all. It's notoriously unreliable. We should not even talk
with
the witnesses, lest our forensic analysis be slanted by that.
We're
detectives. Let's just look at the facts!"

Another murmured, "Detectives....yes, the detectivity of us!"
To
which another replied, "Yes, observation and facts. That's like
science.
And science is good, so science has to have the answers." So
another
picked up a bit of dirt on the scene and studied it carefully.
Then he tasted a little of it and said, "I do detect...that this

tastes like.....dirt!" And another detective scribbled down,
"The dirt tastes like....dirt." One of the detectives peered
over his shoulder as he wrote.

The writer looked up at him and said, "Why are you
peering at me?"

"I'm not, I'm peering at what you are writing."

"We should call that peer review! I think I shall go report
on what we detectives have detected here, especially now
that you have peered at it."

So those two detectives left to go publish their findings.

The first two detectives came back to the others and one said,
"I
think we have the general story down and the facts here do not
contradict it. In fact, they support it. Look at those
footprints,
they are the first suspect's size and match his weight, as
well."

The other detectives replied, "What? You're not real detecting
detectives as we are. Just look at what we can detect!" as
one picked up a piece of grass and studied it carefully. Then
he
sniffed it and said, "This smells like....grass!" Another wrote

that down as a detective peered over his shoulder.

Then the group looked at the footprints in the grass and
dirt that the other two detectives had pointed them to.
Then one said, "I detect....grass and dirt! That's all we
*real*
detectives have detected and written about. So that's all that
real detecting detectives like us should be allowed to see!
You two aren't really REAL detectives, like we are.
Just look at the science of us!"

Fortunately, the crowd generally believed the two detectives
who had made an effort to assemble the whole story. Those
who pursued the truth and not those driven by a vanity about
being detectives. For if the detectives more interested in
their
own detections than the truth had been listened to,
an innocent man would have been condemned
and the guilty set free.

The two detectives who got to the truth never were
called "real" detectives by the group, but they got to
the truth. And that was all that mattered to them.
http://mynym.blogspot.com/2005/01/detectives.html#comments
--
--W
http://mynym.blogspot.com/

.
User: "Robibnikoff"

Title: Re: The Parable of the Detectives.... 18 Jan 2005 06:31:34 PM
"K.C." <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1106072464.563105.17000@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

What does this have to do with the belief there is no God (atheism)?

Thanks for proving that you have no idea what atheism is, but considering
your idiotic postings, that was pretty much a given.
--
---------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
.

User: "Mark K. Bilbo"

Title: Re: The Parable of the Detectives.... 18 Jan 2005 09:28:19 PM
In our last episode
<1106072464.563105.17000@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, K.C. lept out of
the bushes shouting:

What does this have to do with the belief there is no God (atheism)?

Look, you don't have to keep proving to us you don't understand what
atheism is, we already knew...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
-- Seneca the Younger
.


User: ""

Title: Re: The Parable of the Detectives.... 17 Jan 2005 05:53:42 AM
You forgot the 13th detective who determined that God did everything
and left it at that.
.
User: "Walter Bushell"

Title: Re: The Parable of the Detectives.... 17 Jan 2005 06:21:10 AM
In article <1105941222.962914.150780@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
wrote:

You forgot the 13th detective who determined that God did everything
and left it at that.

We can empty the prisons and refund the tax money that we would have
spent!
--
Guns don't kill people; automobiles kill people.
.



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