| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"EagleEye" |
| Date: |
21 Nov 2005 02:58:16 AM |
| Object: |
The Physics of Immortality? |
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/graham_oppy/tipler.html
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| User: "Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" |
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| Title: Re: The Physics of Immortality? |
21 Nov 2005 05:25:33 AM |
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"EagleEye" <jnewton@globalmanagement.ca> wrote in message
news:1132541896.724082.4640@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/graham_oppy/tipler.html
It's a load of crap, Frank.
--
rb
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| User: "EagleEye" |
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| Title: Re: The Physics of Immortality? |
21 Nov 2005 10:09:53 AM |
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It's a load of crap, Frank.
A load of crap - that the universe is an immense information processing
machine operating relative to an arrow of progress subject to the
control and direction of a first/last cause who is intelligence as an
object of the "desire" of creation?
If there is an attachment to an outcome, always, and if everything
which operates in accordance with a design does so with the end in
mind, as every project does - then how is the Omega Point hypothesis a
"load of crap"?
If there is one light cone containing and enveloping all historical
light cones, as a sum over history, then to posit the notion of an apex
of observation upholding the total wave equation of all probability, as
a resolution to the multi-world's theory of QM is not so rediculous at
all.
There are really only three possible outcomes of modern quantum
science.
1) Transluminal Connectedness - (eternally present NOW for everything
transcending relativity in terms of time being only an aspect of
relative motion for each observer).
2) Multi-Worlds Theory - where every decision involves a splitting of
the universe infinitely where every "could have" possibility exists in
its own right (absurd).
3) Superdeterminism - once something happens it could not have happened
any other way than the way it happened because that is what happened.
Free will therefore implies an absolute objective observer, as in "to
be is to be percieved."
If mind is a quantum holographic phenomenon and an immeasurably complex
recording device where the total interconnections are greater than the
total number of molecules in the known universe, and if the universe is
itself a manifestation of some super-consciousness comprised of a whole
who is greater than all the sum of all the parts, just as we are, in
terms of mind as an emergent phenomenon, then why is it so far fetched
to assume a final light point of observation, which binds and envelopes
the universe according to principals and standards of truth, justice,
beauty and even love.
Is hate profitable, or productive of any sort of lasting formative
historical causation?
The human being, as a subjective observer, or as an "i am" ghost in the
machine, relates to the larger one, which may be thought of as the
spirit of the universe, or the ghost in the Big BIG machine. This only
makes sense, that is, if human consciousness must be taken into
consideration relative to any sort of strong anthropic principal,
framed within a final boundary limit who is the very object and source
and final destination of life itself, drawing all life toward an ideal
of perfection, in unity with the creator who, being of infinite
information processing capacity, from every angle and persective
(calculating from a point of absolute objective awarenes), if also of
infinite intelligence.
The theory makes of the whole universe at all levels, from the smallest
to the lagest, the mind of God in essence, "within whom we move, and
breath and have our being."
The issue then becomes one of separation, as sinful (violators of the
law of integrity and wholeness) subjective observers, framed relative
to a degenerative disorder and corrupting influence of sin, all the way
down to the first self consciously aware human being who did something
that he should not do, and then, relative to that first "not" we've
been screwed up ever since, unless God as infinite intelligence makes a
provision for our reconciliation, such that a spiritual unity can exist
and occur once again, reuniting us within an eternal framework of the
larger family of origin. It the barrier of separation is lifted,
between the spirit of man and the spirit of God, then what is meant by
the indwelling of the holy spirit is simply a dynamic of rising
conscious awareness, born of Love.
The Christian, the true Christian believer then is the adopted son of
God, the son of a King, or a universal Prince as child of God, as a
child of light.
The Bible is not primitive at all, properly understood in light of the
latest discoveries and movement of scientific inquiry, which is leading
to a newfound almost spiritual metaphysics.
http://www.math.tulane.edu/~tipler/theologian.html
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| User: "Yournameheres personal Cthulhu" |
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| Title: Re: Re: The Physics of Immortality? |
21 Nov 2005 10:26:14 AM |
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"EagleEye" <jnewton@globalmanagement.ca> suddenly spluttered:
A load of crap - that the universe is an immense information processing
machine operating relative to an arrow of progress subject to the
control and direction of a first/last cause who is intelligence as an
object of the "desire" of creation?
Nothing to fix.
------------------------------------------------
Conflict over the exact will/purpose/nature of God cannot ever be
resolved, since there are no facts to go on.
D Silverman FLAHN, SMLAHN
AA #2208
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| User: "EagleEye" |
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| Title: Re: The Physics of Immortality? |
21 Nov 2005 10:41:29 AM |
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Nothing to fix.
Buddy. God is not a load of crap, but if he does ***** and flush, it's
the dead, the loveless, the cold hearted and the ungrateful, as
projects gone bad and who bore no fruit, nor came to love and to be
loved to join in an eternal process of co-creation. What a waste! The
machine was designed with a pupose in mind. We were made to contain the
Spirit of God - that is our purpose, and that is what gives meaning and
purpose to our lives! Who would reject the love of God made manifest
and communicated? Then again, you are free to do so, though I do hope
you and your "friends" come around, through a rational analysis and
investigation, the realization of which - that we are a variable of a
supreme value, and one which we are not equipped to assign to
ourselves, being purely subjective observers in a prison of our own
making, from which there is no escape, unless we are freed, the ransom
paid. Jesus' death, has meaning, and signifiance, does it not? Was
there not a point and a place in history where all sin and evil became
relative, so to speak, to the eternal victim, and where all goodness,
truth, mercy, justice, freedom and beauty was revealed as the only
absolute that we can be absolutely certain of at the end of the day, in
the final analysis? Screw Churchianity - but what about the truth of
the human condition, and the resolution to the problem of evil? Is that
not important? Is it not needed, and neccessary? Is it not meaningful?
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| User: "Yournameheres personal Cthulhu" |
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| Title: Re: Re: The Physics of Immortality? |
21 Nov 2005 11:24:24 AM |
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"EagleEye" <jnewton@globalmanagement.ca> suddenly spluttered:
Buddy. God is not a load of crap
Make your mind up, schizo.
------------------------------------------------
Conflict over the exact will/purpose/nature of God cannot ever be
resolved, since there are no facts to go on.
D Silverman FLAHN, SMLAHN
AA #2208
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| User: "EagleEye" |
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| Title: Re: The Physics of Immortality? |
21 Nov 2005 11:38:41 AM |
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Make your mind up, schizo.
You took what I said out of context, since the statement ended in a
question mark, you disingenuous adversary who has nothing to offer.
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| User: "Yournameheres personal Cthulhu" |
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| Title: Re: Re: The Physics of Immortality? |
21 Nov 2005 11:45:26 AM |
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"EagleEye" <jnewton@globalmanagement.ca> suddenly spluttered:
Make your mind up, schizo.
You took what I said out of context, since the statement ended in a
question mark, you disingenuous adversary who has nothing to offer.
"Dear Stalin:
You were right, I was wrong?
You are the true heir of Lenin?"
Trotsky.
------------------------------------------------
Conflict over the exact will/purpose/nature of God cannot ever be
resolved, since there are no facts to go on.
D Silverman FLAHN, SMLAHN
AA #2208
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| User: "michael james" |
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| Title: Re: The Physics of Immortality? |
21 Nov 2005 11:16:37 AM |
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EagleEye wrote:
Nothing to fix.
Buddy. God is not a load of crap, but if he does ***** and flush, it's
the dead, the loveless, the cold hearted and the ungrateful, as
projects gone bad and who bore no fruit, nor came to love and to be
loved to join in an eternal process of co-creation. What a waste! The
machine was designed with a pupose in mind. We were made to contain the
Spirit of God - that is our purpose, and that is what gives meaning and
purpose to our lives! Who would reject the love of God made manifest
and communicated? Then again, you are free to do so, though I do hope
you and your "friends" come around, through a rational analysis and
investigation, the realization of which - that we are a variable of a
supreme value, and one which we are not equipped to assign to
ourselves, being purely subjective observers in a prison of our own
making, from which there is no escape, unless we are freed, the ransom
paid. Jesus' death, has meaning, and signifiance, does it not? Was
there not a point and a place in history where all sin and evil became
relative, so to speak, to the eternal victim, and where all goodness,
truth, mercy, justice, freedom and beauty was revealed as the only
absolute that we can be absolutely certain of at the end of the day, in
the final analysis? Screw Churchianity - but what about the truth of
the human condition, and the resolution to the problem of evil? Is that
not important? Is it not needed, and neccessary? Is it not meaningful?
this is a refreshing post! :)
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| User: "Enkidu the Atheist" |
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| Title: Re: The Physics of Immortality? |
21 Nov 2005 02:05:59 PM |
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"EagleEye" <jnewton@globalmanagement.ca> wrote in
news:1132567793.130998.166910@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
It's a load of crap, Frank.
A load of crap - that the universe is an immense information processing
machine
That's a load of crap. "Machine" implies "artificial constructionn". The
universe does not exhibit this.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
PGP ID: 0xC4CE8CF0
"I give money for church organs in the hope the organ music will distract
the congregation's attention from the rest of the service."
-- Andrew Carnegie (1835-1919)
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| User: "michael james" |
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| Title: Re: The Physics of Immortality? |
21 Nov 2005 06:39:26 PM |
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Enkidu the Atheist wrote:
"EagleEye" <jnewton@globalmanagement.ca> wrote in
news:1132567793.130998.166910@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
It's a load of crap, Frank.
A load of crap - that the universe is an immense information processing
machine
That's a load of crap. "Machine" implies "artificial constructionn". The
universe does not exhibit this.
maybe you should do a little study of bacteria and bio-mechanics before
saying anything
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| User: "Enkidu the Atheist" |
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| Title: Re: The Physics of Immortality? |
22 Nov 2005 12:10:30 AM |
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michael james <adlib@videotron.ca> wrote in
news:4382145E.3000508@videotron.ca:
Enkidu the Atheist wrote:
"EagleEye" <jnewton@globalmanagement.ca> wrote in
news:1132567793.130998.166910@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
It's a load of crap, Frank.
A load of crap - that the universe is an immense information
processing machine
That's a load of crap. "Machine" implies "artificial constructionn".
The universe does not exhibit this.
maybe you should do a little study of bacteria and bio-mechanics
before saying anything
Those are not machines.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
PGP ID: 0xC4CE8CF0
What interests fundamentalists to the exclusion of everything else is not
the paradisal happiness of the saints, but rather the horrors other
people are going to have to suffer for their skepticism.
-- David Hopewell Ph.D.
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| User: "EagleEye" |
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| Title: Re: The Physics of Immortality? |
22 Nov 2005 01:40:01 AM |
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Those are not machines.
You misinterpret the use of the word machine.
The human body is simply a highly complex machine, of the biological
variety. An extraordinarily complex machine composed of an almost
limitless amount of working parts.
Is there a "ghost in the machine" though - a REAL you which is
something other than the information stored in your brain?
Is free will an illusion?
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: The Physics of Immortality? |
22 Nov 2005 05:01:25 AM |
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On 21 Nov 2005 17:40:01 -0800, in alt.atheism
"EagleEye" <jnewton@globalmanagement.ca> wrote in
<1132623601.702467.216590@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>:
Those are not machines.
You misinterpret the use of the word machine.
The human body is simply a highly complex machine, of the biological
variety. An extraordinarily complex machine composed of an almost
limitless amount of working parts.
Is there a "ghost in the machine" though - a REAL you which is
something other than the information stored in your brain?
There is no need of that hypothesis. Evidence does not support it and
the hypothesis explains nothing that is not explained without it.
Is free will an illusion?
Probably.
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| User: "Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" |
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| Title: Re: The Physics of Immortality? |
21 Nov 2005 06:06:17 PM |
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"EagleEye" <jnewton@globalmanagement.ca> wrote in message
news:1132567793.130998.166910@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
It's a load of crap, Frank.
A load of crap - that the universe is an immense information processing
machine operating relative to an arrow of progress subject to the
control and direction of a first/last cause who is intelligence as an
object of the "desire" of creation?
Right. That right there. Load of crap.
If there is an attachment to an outcome, always, and if everything
which operates in accordance with a design does so with the end in
mind, as every project does - then how is the Omega Point hypothesis a
"load of crap"?
Because the premise is a load of crap.
If there is one light cone containing and enveloping all historical
<snip>
The Bible is not primitive at all, properly understood in light of the
latest discoveries and movement of scientific inquiry, which is leading
to a newfound almost spiritual metaphysics.
Your hypothesis is just theology and metaphysics
with a few pop physics terms tossed in.
Your hack physics gives no validity to your
theology.
--
rb
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| User: "Chris H. Fleming" |
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| Title: Re: The Physics of Immortality? |
21 Nov 2005 09:34:53 PM |
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EagleEye wrote:
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/graham_oppy/tipler.html
Michael Shermer spends an entire chapter on Tipler and his Sci-Fi
theology in "Why people believe weird things".
As a physicist and a relativist, some of Tipler's fundamental premises
are now known to be false - closed universe, the ability of Omega to
reincarnate everyone. Some of Tipler's other premises place future
technology beyond the capability of all known physics. That is not a
reasoned argument, but Sci-Fi.
I do have to say. At least he gave it a shot. All theology I know of is
simply incompatible with basic cosmology and relativity. Current
cosmological arguments of god are just dumb. All such statements about
god must be highly abstract to be true. So abstract that they are
devoid of meaning.
Tipler is intelligent, and a nice person.
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| User: "EagleEye" |
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| Title: Re: The Physics of Immortality? |
21 Nov 2005 03:04:43 AM |
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More on the Omega Point Theory.
Frank J. Tipler's Website
http://www.math.tulane.edu/~tipler/summary.html
Corresponding Theological Interpretation, by Professor Wolfhart
Pannenberg, University of Munich Theologian
http://www.math.tulane.edu/~tipler/theologian.html
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| User: "EagleEye" |
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| Title: Re: The Physics of Immortality? |
21 Nov 2005 03:12:33 AM |
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And so the final conclusion is that while we may be nothing but
extraordinarily complex machines, that we, our entire being and
existence, is an occurance, relative to a purposelful and meaningful
final point of all relativity which is itself the final object and
goal of lifes arrow of progress. This then creates a new and novel
framework wherein our "being" or most essential observing self finds
purchase in the "tree of life" such that what would otherwise terminate
in a meaingless absurdity, in death, is extended in a dynamic and
process of life meeting life, unto the very apex and high tower point
of objective truth and reality, which, no who, is the totality and the
creator of life itself, as a first/last cause, or the "Alpha and the
Omega" of existence.
It is a realization which may be coming of age, who's time has come.
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| User: "Yournameheres personal Cthulhu" |
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| Title: Re: Re: The Physics of Immortality? |
21 Nov 2005 08:51:45 AM |
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"EagleEye" <jnewton@globalmanagement.ca> suddenly spluttered:
And so the final conclusion is that while we may be nothing but
extraordinarily complex machines, that we, our entire being and
existence, is an occurance, relative to a purposelful and meaningful
final point of all relativity which is itself the final object and
goal of lifes arrow of progress.
Argument from prose.
------------------------------------------------
Conflict over the exact will/purpose/nature of God cannot ever be
resolved, since there are no facts to go on.
D Silverman FLAHN, SMLAHN
AA #2208
.
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| User: "Enkidu the Atheist" |
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| Title: Re: The Physics of Immortality? |
21 Nov 2005 03:58:27 AM |
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"EagleEye" <jnewton@globalmanagement.ca> wrote in
news:1132542753.294240.88550@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
And so the final conclusion is that while we may be nothing but
extraordinarily complex machines, that we, our entire being and
existence, is an occurance, relative to a purposelful and meaningful
final point of all relativity which is itself the final object and
goal of lifes arrow of progress. This then creates a new and novel
framework wherein our "being" or most essential observing self finds
purchase in the "tree of life" such that what would otherwise terminate
in a meaingless absurdity, in death, is extended in a dynamic and
process of life meeting life, unto the very apex and high tower point
of objective truth and reality, which, no who, is the totality and the
creator of life itself, as a first/last cause, or the "Alpha and the
Omega" of existence.
It is a realization which may be coming of age, who's time has come.
Or, more likely, it's hokum. When this "testable theory" is tested,
perhaps there will be a reason to believe it's true. Until then . . . .
--
Enkidu AA#2165
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
PGP ID: 0xC4CE8CF0
The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession.
-- Abraham Lincoln
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| User: "EagleEye" |
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| Title: Re: The Physics of Immortality? |
21 Nov 2005 04:10:44 AM |
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Or, more likely, it's hokum. When this "testable theory" is tested,
perhaps there will be a reason to believe it's true. Until then . . . .
What it all points to, however, is an information theory of the
relativity of human existence relative to God, where modern science and
theology are on an intersecting course, in metaphysics, philosphy, and
even pschology (as spiritual growth).
Understanding our place, and our purpose and meaning, within the whole
of cosmic reality, that's both scientific AND theological.
Life is surely not a meaningless absurdity without any direction or
ordering dynamic according to something which eminates from above and
beyond the realm of self as a mere animal machine.
These things, these conceptions and principals both of science and
religion are beginning to merge. And when they do, as they are starting
to, both the atheists and the religionists are going to be astonished
I'm pretty sure.
So best to keep an open mind, and to continue to search without extreme
contempt, prior to investigation, eh?
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| User: "Enkidu the Atheist" |
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| Title: Re: The Physics of Immortality? |
21 Nov 2005 04:27:57 AM |
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"EagleEye" <jnewton@globalmanagement.ca> wrote in
news:1132546244.331023.246670@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Or, more likely, it's hokum. When this "testable theory" is tested,
perhaps there will be a reason to believe it's true. Until then . .
. .
What it all points to, however, is an information theory of the
relativity of human existence relative to God, where modern science
and theology are on an intersecting course, in metaphysics, philosphy,
and even pschology (as spiritual growth).
What I read told me it was besed on nothing but speculation. It made
not a single prediction that could be experimentally verified. It
explaind no formerly unexplaind observation. While it could be true,
lots of things could be true but are not.
Understanding our place, and our purpose and meaning, within the whole
of cosmic reality, that's both scientific AND theological.
You start by assuming we have a place and a purpose within the whole of
cosmic reality. Then, surprise: You find an answer that makes you feel
warm and fuzzy. Find some data to go along with it, and perhaps you've
got something.
Life is surely not a meaningless absurdity without any direction or
ordering dynamic according to something which eminates from above and
beyond the realm of self as a mere animal machine.
Yes, it seems to be. And that gives me the freedom to find my own place
and purpose.
These things, these conceptions and principals both of science and
religion are beginning to merge. And when they do, as they are
starting to, both the atheists and the religionists are going to be
astonished I'm pretty sure.
Science and religion are not beginning to merge. Science is pushing
religion into smaller and smaller patches of ignorance.
So best to keep an open mind, and to continue to search without
extreme contempt, prior to investigation, eh?
I have contempt for any feel-good theory with no supporting evidence
whatsoever. Find some evidence or you have nothing but science fiction
without a plot or any character development.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
PGP ID: 0xC4CE8CF0
"Censorship of anything, at any time, in any place, on whatever
pretense, has always been and always be the last resort of the boob and
the bigot."
-- Eugene Gladstone O'Neill, American playwright (1888-1953)
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| User: "EagleEye" |
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| Title: Re: The Physics of Immortality? |
21 Nov 2005 04:39:47 AM |
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So best to keep an open mind, and to continue to search without
extreme contempt, prior to investigation, eh?
I have contempt for any feel-good theory with no supporting evidence
whatsoever. Find some evidence or you have nothing but science fiction
without a plot or any character development.
In terms of a framework of progressive Civilized integrity bounded
within and by the moral law, there is most certainly a plot, and
substantial character development. Every heard of the holy Bible as the
inspired word of God? Ever look at it and prove it for its meaning and
significance. If not, pay special attention to the New Testament, and
then ask yourself if it has any meaning or significance because it
either means everything, or nothing.
Life is either an absurd meaninglessness with zero purpose, or, it is
filled with meaning and purpose.
What is the meaning and purpose of life? According to the Bible it is
to have an authentic relationship with God as the Spirit of the
Universe, in terms of a mutual presence, as in a friendship, with God
looking at us, looking at him looking at us looking at him, and falling
in Love.
"To be is to be percieved."
~ That is true.
Do some research.
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| User: "Enkidu the Atheist" |
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| Title: Re: The Physics of Immortality? |
21 Nov 2005 04:50:29 AM |
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"EagleEye" <jnewton@globalmanagement.ca> wrote in
news:1132547987.439262.267100@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
So best to keep an open mind, and to continue to search without
extreme contempt, prior to investigation, eh?
I have contempt for any feel-good theory with no supporting evidence
whatsoever. Find some evidence or you have nothing but science
fiction without a plot or any character development.
In terms of a framework of progressive Civilized integrity bounded
within and by the moral law, there is most certainly a plot, and
substantial character development. Every heard of the holy Bible as
the inspired word of God? Ever look at it and prove it for its meaning
and significance. If not, pay special attention to the New Testament,
and then ask yourself if it has any meaning or significance because it
either means everything, or nothing.
Read it. It meant nothing. It's inconsisent, incoherent primitive
babbling.
Life is either an absurd meaninglessness with zero purpose, or, it is
filled with meaning and purpose.
There is no meaning imposed on us. We choose to fill our lives with any
meaning they have. The meaning you choose is to keep alive primative
superstitions.
What is the meaning and purpose of life? According to the Bible it is
to have an authentic relationship with God as the Spirit of the
Universe, in terms of a mutual presence, as in a friendship, with God
looking at us, looking at him looking at us looking at him, and
falling in Love.
So, you ditch your psuedoscience and fall back on the mysterious
spook-world.
"To be is to be percieved."
And I don't perceive God. I guess that means he isn't.
Do some research.
I tried. There's nothing to research.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
PGP ID: 0xC4CE8CF0
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from
the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent
disinclination to do so.
-Douglas Adams, from Last Chance To See
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: The Physics of Immortality? |
21 Nov 2005 04:47:06 AM |
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On 20 Nov 2005 20:39:47 -0800, in alt.atheism
"EagleEye" <jnewton@globalmanagement.ca> wrote in
<1132547987.439262.267100@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>:
So best to keep an open mind, and to continue to search without
extreme contempt, prior to investigation, eh?
I have contempt for any feel-good theory with no supporting evidence
whatsoever. Find some evidence or you have nothing but science fiction
without a plot or any character development.
In terms of a framework of progressive Civilized integrity bounded
within and by the moral law, there is most certainly a plot, and
substantial character development. Every heard of the holy Bible as the
inspired word of God? Ever look at it and prove it for its meaning and
significance. If not, pay special attention to the New Testament, and
then ask yourself if it has any meaning or significance because it
either means everything, or nothing.
Life is either an absurd meaninglessness with zero purpose, or, it is
filled with meaning and purpose.
What is the meaning and purpose of life? According to the Bible it is
to have an authentic relationship with God as the Spirit of the
Universe, in terms of a mutual presence, as in a friendship, with God
looking at us, looking at him looking at us looking at him, and falling
in Love.
Where does the Bible tell us the meaning and purpose of life?
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| User: "J Forbes" |
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| Title: Re: The Physics of Immortality? |
21 Nov 2005 05:22:04 AM |
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-snip crossposting--
EagleEye wrote:
Life is surely not a meaningless absurdity without any direction or
ordering dynamic according to something which eminates from above and
beyond the realm of self as a mere animal machine.
Appears to me that life is probably meaningless, but that doesn't seem
to diminish it in any way for me.
So best to keep an open mind, and to continue to search without extreme
contempt, prior to investigation, eh?
Yeah, but my guess is we're gonna be searching forever and find
nothing, so I won't worry about it.
Jim
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| User: "Jim07D5" |
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| Title: Re: The Physics of Immortality? |
21 Nov 2005 04:49:34 PM |
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"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> said:
-snip crossposting--
EagleEye wrote:
Life is surely not a meaningless absurdity without any direction or
ordering dynamic according to something which eminates from above and
beyond the realm of self as a mere animal machine.
Appears to me that life is probably meaningless, but that doesn't seem
to diminish it in any way for me.
So best to keep an open mind, and to continue to search without extreme
contempt, prior to investigation, eh?
Yeah, but my guess is we're gonna be searching forever and find
nothing, so I won't worry about it.
And one has to ask, if life has a meaning to be found by searching,
how would we know when we have found it?
--- Jim07D5
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| User: "Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" |
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| Title: Re: The Physics of Immortality? |
21 Nov 2005 05:29:41 AM |
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"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:1132550524.436994.190860@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
-snip crossposting--
EagleEye wrote:
Life is surely not a meaningless absurdity without any direction or
ordering dynamic according to something which eminates from above and
beyond the realm of self as a mere animal machine.
Appears to me that life is probably meaningless, but that doesn't seem
to diminish it in any way for me.
Life is not meaningless. It has the meaning you
give it. Give it a good meaning.
--
rb #2187
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| User: "J Forbes" |
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| Title: Re: The Physics of Immortality? |
21 Nov 2005 06:07:33 AM |
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Ron Baker, Pluralitas! wrote:
"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:1132550524.436994.190860@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
-snip crossposting--
EagleEye wrote:
Life is surely not a meaningless absurdity without any direction or
ordering dynamic according to something which eminates from above and
beyond the realm of self as a mere animal machine.
Appears to me that life is probably meaningless, but that doesn't seem
to diminish it in any way for me.
Life is not meaningless. It has the meaning you
give it. Give it a good meaning.
When someone asks, "What's the meaning of life?" I figure that 42 is
as good an answer as any, because the person asking assumes there is
such a thing as a meaning of life. I don't make that assumption, so I
have no reason to invent a meaning of life.
that doesn't imply that I have no motivation to keep living....
Jim
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| User: "Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" |
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| Title: Re: The Physics of Immortality? |
21 Nov 2005 06:56:21 AM |
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"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:1132553253.396154.15460@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Ron Baker, Pluralitas! wrote:
"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:1132550524.436994.190860@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
-snip crossposting--
EagleEye wrote:
Life is surely not a meaningless absurdity without any direction or
ordering dynamic according to something which eminates from above and
beyond the realm of self as a mere animal machine.
Appears to me that life is probably meaningless, but that doesn't seem
to diminish it in any way for me.
Life is not meaningless. It has the meaning you
give it. Give it a good meaning.
When someone asks, "What's the meaning of life?" I figure that 42 is
as good an answer as any, because the person asking assumes there is
such a thing as a meaning of life. I don't make that assumption, so I
have no reason to invent a meaning of life.
that doesn't imply that I have no motivation to keep living....
Jim
Just to be clear, I wasn't picking on you.
Sometimes the situation is before us to burst the
theist bubble. We shouldn't be afraid to do that.
But those who find reasurance in fairy stories
will find the us and the world less threatening
if we show not just that the "good things" don't
come from a god but that the "good things"
are there and better without theistic delusions.
--
rb #2187
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: The Physics of Immortality? |
21 Nov 2005 04:37:27 AM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet EagleEye
(jnewton@globalmanagement.ca) made the light shine upon us with this:
Or, more likely, it's hokum. When this "testable theory" is tested,
perhaps there will be a reason to believe it's true. Until then . .
. .
What it all points to, however, is an information theory of the
relativity of human existence relative to God,
Which one?
where modern science and
theology are on an intersecting course, in metaphysics, philosphy, and
even pschology (as spiritual growth).
They are widening with each literal discovery, the god of the gaps is
running out of gaps. If I was this god, I'd be frantic enough to reveal
myself by now.
Understanding our place, and our purpose and meaning, within the whole
of cosmic reality, that's both scientific AND theological.
Wrong. Understanding *how* we came to be, *that* is scientific. Place,
purpose and meaning are theological arguments from day one.
Life is surely not a meaningless absurdity without any direction or
ordering dynamic according to something which eminates from above and
beyond the realm of self as a mere animal machine.
What gives you that idea? Are you really this lost without your
imaginary friends?
These things, these conceptions and principals both of science and
religion are beginning to merge. And when they do, as they are
starting to, both the atheists and the religionists are going to be
astonished I'm pretty sure.
Only the religious make the claim that science and religion are
compatible. Some even claim that their religion actually backs up
science. The non-religious get by just fine with science and without
religion. Which just proves that we don't need it.
So best to keep an open mind, and to continue to search without
extreme contempt, prior to investigation, eh?
I'll drop my contempt if you stop treating unbacked assertions as if
they had any credibility.
--
Uncle Vic
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
----
"GARGOYLES, PSYCHICS, EVERYTHING UNGODLY, GET THE HELL OUT OF MY
HOUSE, IN JESUS NAME I PRAY. THE DARK SIDE, SHE's NOT A CHRISTIAN,
SHE'S DARK-SIDED, SHE'S DARK-SIDED, THIS IS MY HOUSE, I WANT MY GOD
AND I WANT MY FAMILY. I AM A GOD WARRIOR SHE'S A SPIRITUAL WARRIOR,
SHE WAS THROWN IN THE PITS, OH NO THE HORRORS"
Ain't Christianity great?
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