Religions > Atheism > The Pope At Auschwitz: By Destroying Israel, Nazis Wanted To Kill God
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Sound of Trumpet" |
| Date: |
09 Jun 2006 11:25:31 PM |
| Object: |
The Pope At Auschwitz: By Destroying Israel, Nazis Wanted To Kill God |
http://www.chiesa.espressonline.it/dettaglio.jsp?id=61221&eng=y
The Pope at Auschwitz: "They wanted to kill God"
"By destroying Israel, they ultimately wanted to tear up the taproot
of the Christian faith." A startling interpretation of the Holocaust
in the words of the German pope
by Sandro Magister
ROMA, May 29, 2006 - The most extensively analyzed and criticized
portion of Benedict XVI's trip to the homeland of his predecessor,
Poland, was when he visited Auschwitz and Birkenau, sites of the
Holocaust.
It is criticized because of what pope Joseph Ratinger did not say
there.
According to his critics' expectations, Benedict XVI should have
asked for forgiveness for the faults of the German nation - to which
he belongs - and denounced the anti-Semitism of yesterday and today,
especially that of many Christians.
But it didn't happen. Benedict XVI didn't talk speak of these two
matters.
Nor did he repeat the usual interpretations of the Holocaust.
On the contrary, he made an interpretation of the slaughter of the
Jewish people that no pope had ever made before him.
By annihilating that people - Benedict XVI asserted - the
architects of the slaughter "wanted to kill God." The God of
Abraham, and of Jesus Christ. The God of the Jews and of the
Christians, but also of all humanity, for whose sake "on Sinai he
laid down principles to serve as a guide, principles that are eternally
valid." By destroying Israel, the authors of this extermination
"ultimately wanted to tear up the taproot of the Christian faith and
to replace it with a faith of their own invention: faith in the rule of
man, the rule of the powerful."
This is the key passage of the address given by Benedict XVI on Sunday,
May 28, at Auschwitz and Birkenau.
It is to these words, and not his silences, that the most attention and
reflection, including critical reflection, should be dedicated.
But the address delivered by Benedict XVI at Auschwitz and Birkenau
contained other passages that are innovative with respect to the canons
of political correctness.
For example, pope Ratzinger did not evoke the solidarity of Jews and
Christians in terms of the latter asking forgiveness from the former,
but as sharing the lot of the victims, as sharing the will to resist
evil, as being brought close together through prayer. In doing this,
the pope was not afraid to touch upon controversial questions. Among
the "lights shining in a dark night," he recalled the Hebrew
Christian Edith Stein, who was also killed in the Holocaust but is
disliked by many Jews because she converted and was beatified. He
expressed admiration for the Carmelite convent built near Auschwitz,
which is criticized by many Jews as an undue appropriation of the
place's memory.
Here follows the address in its entirety.
Further below, there is an anthology of the salient passages from the
other speeches and homilies of Benedict XVI during his visit to Poland
from May 25-28.
"I had to come. It is a duty before the truth"
To speak in this place of horror, in this place where unprecedented
mass crimes were committed against God and man, is almost impossible
- and it is particularly difficult and troubling for a Christian, for
a Pope from Germany. In a place like this, words fail; in the end,
there can only be a dread silence - a silence which is itself a
heartfelt cry to God: Why, Lord, did you remain silent? How could you
tolerate all this? In silence, then, we bow our heads before the
endless line of those who suffered and were put to death here; yet our
silence becomes in turn a plea for forgiveness and reconciliation, a
plea to the living God never to let this happen again.
Twenty-seven years ago, on 7 June 1979, Pope John Paul II stood in this
place. He said: "I come here today as a pilgrim. As you know, I have
been here many times. So many times! And many times I have gone down to
Maximilian Kolbe's death cell, paused before the execution wall, and
walked amid the ruins of the Birkenau ovens. It was impossible for me
not to come here as Pope." Pope John Paul came here as a son of that
people which, along with the Jewish people, suffered most in this place
and, in general, throughout the war. "Six million Poles lost their
lives during the Second World War: a fifth of the nation", he
reminded us. Here too he solemnly called for respect for human rights
and the rights of nations, as his predecessors John XXIII and Paul VI
had done before him, and added: "The one who speaks these words is
the son of a nation which in its history has suffered greatly from
others. He says this, not to accuse, but to remember. He speaks in the
name of all those nations whose rights are being violated and
disregarded."
Pope John Paul II came here as a son of the Polish people. I come here
today as a son of the German people. For this very reason, I can and
must echo his words: I could not fail to come here. I had to come. It
is a duty before the truth and the just due of all who suffered here, a
duty before God, for me to come here as the successor of Pope John Paul
II and as a son of the German people - a son of that people over which
a ring of criminals rose to power by false promises of future greatness
and the recovery of the nation's honour, prominence and prosperity,
but also through terror and intimidation, with the result that our
people was used and abused as an instrument of their thirst for
destruction and power. Yes, I could not fail to come here. On 7 June
1979 I came as the Archbishop of Munich-Freising, along with many other
Bishops who accompanied the Pope, listened to his words and joined in
his prayer. In 1980 I came back to this dreadful place with a
delegation of German Bishops, appalled by its evil, yet grateful for
the fact that above its dark clouds the star of reconciliation had
emerged. This is the same reason why I have come here today: to implore
the grace of reconciliation - first of all from God, who alone can open
and purify our hearts, from the men and women who suffered here, and
finally the grace of reconciliation for all those who, at this hour of
our history, are suffering in new ways from the power of hatred and the
violence which hatred spawns.
How many questions arise in this place! Constantly the question comes
up: Where was God in those days? Why was he silent? How could he permit
this endless slaughter, this triumph of evil? The words of Psalm 44
come to mind, Israel's lament for its woes: "You have broken us in
the haunt of jackals, and covered us with deep darkness because of you
we are being killed all day long, and accounted as sheep for the
slaughter. Rouse yourself! Why do you sleep, O Lord? Awake, do not cast
us off forever! Why do you hide your face? Why do you forget our
affliction and oppression? For we sink down to the dust; our bodies
cling to the ground. Rise up, come to our help! Redeem us for the sake
of your steadfast love!" (Ps 44:19, 22-26). This cry of anguish,
which Israel raised to God in its suffering, at moments of deep
distress, is also the cry for help raised by all those who in every age
- yesterday, today and tomorrow - suffer for the love of God, for the
love of truth and goodness. How many they are, even in our own day!
We cannot peer into God's mysterious plan - we see only piecemeal,
and we would be wrong to set ourselves up as judges of God and history.
Then we would not be defending man, but only contributing to his
downfall. No - when all is said and done, we must continue to cry out
humbly yet insistently to God: Rouse yourself! Do not forget mankind,
your creature! And our cry to God must also be a cry that pierces our
very heart, a cry that awakens within us God's hidden presence - so
that his power, the power he has planted in our hearts, will not be
buried or choked within us by the mire of selfishness, pusillanimity,
indifference or opportunism. Let us cry out to God, with all our
hearts, at the present hour, when new misfortunes befall us, when all
the forces of darkness seem to issue anew from human hearts: whether it
is the abuse of God's name as a means of justifying senseless
violence against innocent persons, or the cynicism which refuses to
acknowledge God and ridicules faith in him. Let us cry out to God, that
he may draw men and women to conversion and help them to see that
violence does not bring peace, but only generates more violence - a
morass of devastation in which everyone is ultimately the loser. The
God in whom we believe is a God of reason - a reason, to be sure, which
is not a kind of cold mathematics of the universe, but is one with love
and with goodness. We make our prayer to God and we appeal to humanity,
that this reason, the logic of love and the recognition of the power of
reconciliation and peace, may prevail over the threats arising from
irrationalism or from a spurious and godless reason.
The place where we are standing is a place of memory, it is the place
of the Shoah. The past is never simply the past. It always has
something to say to us; it tells us the paths to take and the paths not
to take. Like John Paul II, I have walked alongside the inscriptions in
various languages erected in memory of those who died here:
inscriptions in Belarusian, Czech, German, French, Greek, Hebrew,
Croatian, Italian, Yiddish, Hungarian, Dutch, Norwegian, Polish,
Russian, Romani, Romanian, Slovak, Serbian, Ukrainian, Judaeo-Spanish
and English. All these inscriptions speak of human grief, they give us
a glimpse of the cynicism of that regime which treated men and women as
material objects, and failed to see them as persons embodying the image
of God. Some inscriptions are pointed reminders. There is one in
Hebrew. The rulers of the Third Reich wanted to crush the entire Jewish
people, to cancel it from the register of the peoples of the earth.
Thus the words of the Psalm: "We are being killed, accounted as sheep
for the slaughter" were fulfilled in a terrifying way. Deep down,
those vicious criminals, by wiping out this people, wanted to kill the
God who called Abraham, who spoke on Sinai and laid down principles to
serve as a guide for mankind, principles that are eternally valid. If
this people, by its very existence, was a witness to the God who spoke
to humanity and took us to himself, then that God finally had to die
and power had to belong to man alone - to those men, who thought that
by force they had made themselves masters of the world. By destroying
Israel, by the Shoah, they ultimately wanted to tear up the taproot of
the Christian faith and to replace it with a faith of their own
invention: faith in the rule of man, the rule of the powerful.
Then there is the inscription in Polish. First and foremost they wanted
to eliminate the cultural elite, thus erasing the Polish people as an
autonomous historical subject and reducing it, to the extent that it
continued to exist, to slavery. Another inscription offering a pointed
reminder is the one written in the language of the Sinti and Roma
people. Here too, the plan was to wipe out a whole people which lives
by migrating among other peoples. They were seen as part of the refuse
of world history, in an ideology which valued only the empirically
useful; everything else, according to this view, was to be written off
as lebensunwertes Leben - life unworthy of being lived. There is also
the inscription in Russian, which commemorates the tremendous loss of
life endured by the Russian soldiers who combated the Nazi reign of
terror; but this inscription also reminds us that their mission had a
tragic twofold effect: they set the peoples free from one dictatorship,
but the same peoples were thereby subjected to a new one, that of
Stalin and the Communist system.
The other inscriptions, written in Europe's many languages, also
speak to us of the sufferings of men and women from the whole
continent. They would stir our hearts profoundly if we remembered the
victims not merely in general, but rather saw the faces of the
individual persons who ended up here in this abyss of terror. I felt a
deep urge to pause in a particular way before the inscription in
German. It evokes the face of Edith Stein, Theresia Benedicta a Cruce:
a woman, Jewish and German, who disappeared along with her sister into
the black night of the Nazi-German concentration camp; as a Christian
and a Jew, she accepted death with her people and for them. The Germans
who had been brought to Auschwitz-Birkenau and met their death here
were considered as Abschaum der Nation - the refuse of the nation.
Today we gratefully hail them as witnesses to the truth and goodness
which even among our people were not eclipsed. We are grateful to them,
because they did not submit to the power of evil, and now they stand
before us like lights shining in a dark night. With profound respect
and gratitude, then, let us bow our heads before all those who, like
the three young men in Babylon facing death in the fiery furnace, could
respond: "Only our God can deliver us. But even if he does not, be it
known to you, O King, that we will not serve your gods and we will not
worship the golden statue that you have set up" (cf. Dan 3:17ff.).
Yes, behind these inscriptions is hidden the fate of countless human
beings. They jar our memory, they touch our hearts. They have no desire
to instil hatred in us: instead, they show us the terrifying effect of
hatred. Their desire is to help our reason to see evil as evil and to
reject it; their desire is to enkindle in us the courage to do good and
to resist evil. They want to make us feel the sentiments expressed in
the words that Sophocles placed on the lips of Antigone, as she
contemplated the horror all around her: my nature is not to join in
hate but to join in love.
By God's grace, together with the purification of memory demanded by
this place of horror, a number of initiatives have sprung up with the
aim of imposing a limit upon evil and confirming goodness. Just now I
was able to bless the Centre for Dialogue and Prayer. In the immediate
neighbourhood the Carmelite nuns carry on their life of hiddenness,
knowing that they are united in a special way to the mystery of
Christ's Cross and reminding us of the faith of Christians, which
declares that God himself descended into the hell of suffering and
suffers with us. In O?wi?cim is the Centre of Saint Maximilian Kolbe,
and the International Centre for Education about Auschwitz and the
Holocaust. There is also the International House for Meetings of Young
people. Near one of the old Prayer Houses is the Jewish Centre. Finally
the Academy for Human Rights is presently being established. So there
is hope that this place of horror will gradually become a place for
constructive thinking, and that remembrance will foster resistance to
evil and the triumph of love.
At Auschwitz-Birkenau humanity walked through a "valley of
darkness". And so, here in this place, I would like to end with a
prayer of trust - with one of the Psalms of Israel which is also a
prayer of Christians: "The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want. He
makes me lie down in green pastures; he leads me beside still waters;
he restores my soul. He leads me in right paths for his name's sake.
Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no
evil; for you are with me; your rod and your staff - they comfort me. I
shall dwell in the house of the Lord my whole life long" (Ps 23:1-4,
6).
__________
"Stand firm in your faith!". Selections from the other speeches and
homilies
TO THE CLERGY OF WARSAW, THURSDAY, MAY 25:
[...] The greatness of Christ's priesthood can make us tremble. We
can be tempted to cry out with Peter: "Lord, depart from me, for I am a
sinful man" (Lk 5:8), because we find it hard to believe that Christ
called us specifically. Could he not have chosen someone else, more
capable, more holy? But Jesus has looked lovingly upon each one of us,
and in this gaze of his we may have confidence. Let us not be consumed
with haste, as if time dedicated to Christ in silent prayer were time
wasted. On the contrary, it is precisely then that the most wonderful
fruits of pastoral service come to birth. There is no need to be
discouraged on account of the fact that prayer requires effort, or
because of the impression that Jesus remains silent. He is indeed
silent, but he is at work. In this regard, I am pleased to recall my
experience last year in Cologne. I witnessed then a deep, unforgettable
silence of a million young people at the moment of the Adoration of the
Blessed Sacrament! That prayerful silence united us, it gave us great
consolation. In a world where there is so much noise, so much
bewilderment, there is a need for silent adoration of Jesus concealed
in the Host. Be assiduous in the prayer of adoration and teach it to
the faithful. It is a source of comfort and light particularly to those
who are suffering.
The faithful expect only one thing from priests: that they be
specialists in promoting the encounter between man and God. The priest
is not asked to be an expert in economics, construction or politics. He
is expected to be an expert in the spiritual life. With this end in
view, when a young priest takes his first steps, he needs to be able to
refer to an experienced teacher who will help him not to lose his way
among the many ideas put forward by the culture of the moment. In the
face of the temptations of relativism or the permissive society, there
is absolutely no need for the priest to know all the latest, changing
currents of thought; what the faithful expect from him is that he be a
witness to the eternal wisdom contained in the revealed word.
Solicitude for the quality of personal prayer and for good theological
formation bear fruit in life. Living under the influence of
totalitarianism may have given rise to an unconscious tendency to hide
under an external mask, and in consequence to become somewhat
hypocritical. Clearly this does not promote authentic fraternal
relations and may lead to an exaggerated concentration on oneself. In
reality, we grow in affective maturity when our hearts adhere to God.
Christ needs priests who are mature, virile, capable of cultivating an
authentic spiritual paternity. For this to happen, priests need to be
honest with themselves, open with their spiritual director and trusting
in divine mercy.
On the occasion of the Great Jubilee, Pope John Paul II frequently
exhorted Christians to do penance for infidelities of the past. We
believe that the Church is holy, but that there are sinners among her
members. We need to reject the desire to identify only with those who
are sinless. How could the Church have excluded sinners from her ranks?
It is for their salvation that Jesus took flesh, died and rose again.
We must therefore learn to live Christian penance with sincerity. By
practising it, we confess individual sins in union with others, before
them and before God. Yet we must guard against the arrogant claim of
setting ourselves up to judge earlier generations, who lived in
different times and different circumstances. Humble sincerity is needed
in order not to deny the sins of the past, and at the same time not to
indulge in facile accusations in the absence of real evidence or
without regard for the different preconceptions of the time. Moreover,
the confessio peccati, to use an expression of Saint Augustine, must
always be accompanied by the confessio laudis - the confession of
praise. As we ask pardon for the wrong that was done in the past, we
must also remember the good accomplished with the help of divine grace
which, even if contained in earthenware vessels, has borne fruit that
is often excellent. [...]
* * *
FROM THE HOMILY OF THE MASS IN WARSAW, FRIDAY, MAY 26:
[...] "Stand firm in your faith!" We have just heard the words of
Jesus: "If you love me, you will keep my commandments. And I will
pray the Father, and he will give you another Counsellor, to be with
you for ever, the Spirit of truth" (Jn 14:15-17a). With these words
Jesus reveals the profound link between faith and the profession of
Divine Truth, between faith and dedication to Jesus Christ in love,
between faith and the practice of a life inspired by the commandments.
All three dimensions of faith are the fruit of the action of the Holy
Spirit. This action is manifested as an inner force that harmonizes the
hearts of the disciples with the Heart of Christ and makes them capable
of loving as he loved them. Hence faith is a gift, but at the same time
it is a task.
"He will give you another Counsellor - the Spirit of truth."
Faith, as knowledge and profession of the truth about God and about
man, "comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes by the
preaching of Christ", as Saint Paul says (Rom 10:17). Throughout the
history of the Church, the Apostles preached the word of Christ, taking
care to hand it on intact to their successors, who in their turn
transmitted it to subsequent generations until our own day. Many
preachers of the Gospel gave their lives specifically because of their
faithfulness to the truth of the word of Christ. And so solicitude for
the truth gave birth to the Church's Tradition. As in past centuries,
so also today there are people or groups who obscure this centuries-old
Tradition, seeking to falsify the Word of Christ and to remove from the
Gospel those truths which in their view are too uncomfortable for
modern man. They try to give the impression that everything is
relative: even the truths of faith would depend on the historical
situation and on human evaluation. Yet the Church cannot silence the
Spirit of Truth. The successors of the Apostles, together with the
Pope, are responsible for the truth of the Gospel, and all Christians
are called to share in this responsibility, accepting its authoritative
indications. Every Christian is bound to confront his own convictions
continually with the teachings of the Gospel and of the Church's
Tradition in the effort to remain faithful to the word of Christ, even
when it is demanding and, humanly speaking, hard to understand. We must
not yield to the temptation of relativism or of a subjectivist and
selective interpretation of Sacred Scripture. Only the whole truth can
open us to adherence to Christ, dead and risen for our salvation. [...]
* * *
TO THE YOUNG PEOPLE OF KRAKOW, SATURDAY, MAY 27:
[...] My friends, what does it mean to build on the rock? Building on
the rock also means building on Someone who was rejected. Saint Peter
speaks to the faithful of Christ as a "living stone rejected by men
but in God's sight chosen and precious" (1 Pet 2:4). The undeniable
fact of the election of Jesus by God does not conceal the mystery of
evil, whereby man is able to reject Him who has loved to the very end.
This rejection of Jesus by man, which Saint Peter mentions, extends
throughout human history, even to our own time. One does not need great
mental acuity to be aware of the many ways of rejecting Christ, even on
our own doorstep. Often, Jesus is ignored, he is mocked and he is
declared a king of the past who is not for today and certainly not for
tomorrow. He is relegated to a storeroom of questions and persons one
dare not mention publicly in a loud voice. If in the process of
building the house of your life you encounter those who scorn the
foundation on which you are building, do not be discouraged! A strong
faith must endure tests. A living faith must always grow. Our faith in
Jesus Christ, to be such, must frequently face others' lack of faith.
[...]
* * *
FROM THE HOMILY OF THE MASS IN KRAKOW, SUNDAY, MAY 28:
[...] Dear brothers and sisters, I have taken as the motto of my
pilgrimage to Poland in the footsteps of John Paul II the words:
"Stand firm in your faith!" This appeal is directed to us all as
members of the community of Christ's disciples, to each and every one
of us. Faith is a deeply personal and human act, an act which has two
aspects. To believe means first to accept as true what our mind cannot
fully comprehend. We have to accept what God reveals to us about
himself, about ourselves, about everything around us, including the
things that are invisible, inexpressible and beyond our imagination.
This act of accepting revealed truth broadens the horizon of our
knowledge and draws us to the mystery in which our lives are immersed.
Letting our reason be limited in this way is not something easy to do.
Here we see the second aspect of faith: it is trust in a person, no
ordinary person, but Jesus Christ himself. What we believe is
important, but even more important is the One in whom we believe. [...]
Before I return to Rome to continue my ministry, I appeal to all of you
in the words spoken here by Pope John Paul II in 1979: "You must be
strong, dear brothers and sisters. You must be strong with the strength
that comes from faith. You must be strong with the strength of faith.
You must be faithful. Today, more than in any other age, you need this
strength. You must be strong with the strength of hope, the hope that
brings perfect joy in life and which prevents us from ever grieving the
Holy Spirit! You must be strong with love, the love which is stronger
than death. You must be strong with the strength of faith, hope and
charity, a charity that is conscious, mature and responsible, and which
can help us at this moment of our history to carry on the great
dialogue with man and the world, a dialogue rooted in dialogue with God
himself, with the Father, through the Son in the Holy Spirit, the
dialogue of salvation" (Homily, 10 June 1979).
I too, Benedict XVI, the Successor of Pope John Paul II, am asking you
to look up from earth to heaven, to lift your eyes to the One to whom
succeeding generations have looked for two thousand years, and in whom
they have discovered life's ultimate meaning. Strengthened by faith
in God, devote yourselves fervently to consolidating his Kingdom on
earth, a Kingdom of goodness, justice, solidarity and mercy. I ask you
to bear courageous witness to the Gospel before today's world,
bringing hope to the poor, the suffering, the lost and abandoned, the
desperate and those yearning for freedom, truth and peace. By doing
good to your neighbour and showing your concern for the common good,
you bear witness that God is love.
I ask you, finally, to share with the other peoples of Europe and the
world the treasure of your faith, not least as a way of honouring the
memory of your countryman, who, as the Successor of Saint Peter, did
this with extraordinary power and effectiveness. And remember me in
your prayers and sacrifices, even as you remembered my great
Predecessor, so that I can carry out the mission Christ has given me. I
ask you to stand firm in your faith! Stand firm in your hope! Stand
firm in your love! Amen!
__________
The complete text, in English, of all the speeches and homilies of the
pope in Poland, on the Vatican website:
Apostolic Journey to Poland, May 25-28, 2006
.
|
|
| User: "raven1" |
|
| Title: Re: The Pope At Auschwitz: By Destroying Israel, Nazis Wanted To Kill God |
10 Jun 2006 03:25:20 PM |
|
|
On 9 Jun 2006 21:25:31 -0700, "Sound of Trumpet"
<soundoftrumpet@fastmail.fm> wrote:
By annihilating that people - Benedict XVI asserted - the
architects of the slaughter "wanted to kill God."
That would certainly have surprised Hitler who justified his plans
against the Jews in "Mein Kampf" as doing the Lord's work.
--
"O Sybilli, si ergo
Fortibus es in ero
O Nobili! Themis trux
Sivat sinem? Causen Dux"
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Pastor Kutchie" |
|
| Title: Re: The Pope At Auschwitz: By Destroying Israel, Nazis Wanted To Kill God |
10 Jun 2006 11:16:50 AM |
|
|
Sound of Trumpet wrote:
The Pope at Auschwitz: "They wanted to kill God"
"By destroying Israel, they ultimately wanted to tear up the taproot
of the Christian faith." A perverse interpretation of the Holocaust
in the words of the German pope
Fixed.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Martin Edwards" |
|
| Title: Re: The Pope At Auschwitz: By Destroying Israel, Nazis Wanted ToKill God |
11 Jun 2006 10:46:11 AM |
|
|
Pastor Kutchie wrote:
Sound of Trumpet wrote:
The Pope at Auschwitz: "They wanted to kill God"
"By destroying Israel, they ultimately wanted to tear up the taproot
of the Christian faith." A perverse interpretation of the Holocaust
in the words of the German pope
Fixed.
Ok, now pass it on.
--
You can't fool me: there ain't no Sanity Clause - Chico Marx
www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1955
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Colin Day" |
|
| Title: Re: The Pope At Auschwitz: By Destroying Israel, Nazis Wanted ToKill God |
14 Jun 2006 08:38:37 PM |
|
|
Sound of Trumpet wrote:
http://www.chiesa.espressonline.it/dettaglio.jsp?id=61221&eng=y
The Pope at Auschwitz: "They wanted to kill God"
"By destroying Israel, they ultimately wanted to tear up the taproot
of the Christian faith." A startling interpretation of the Holocaust
in the words of the German pope
by Sandro Magister
That's odd, there wasn't an Israel while the Nazis were in power, so
how could they have tried to destroy it?
Colin Day aa #1500
.
|
|
|
| User: "Miriam Cohen" |
|
| Title: Re: The Pope At Auschwitz: By Destroying Israel, Nazis Wanted ToKill God |
15 Jun 2006 01:22:19 AM |
|
|
Colin Day wrote:
Sound of Trumpet wrote:
http://www.chiesa.espressonline.it/dettaglio.jsp?id=61221&eng=y
The Pope at Auschwitz: "They wanted to kill God"
"By destroying Israel, they ultimately wanted to tear up the taproot
of the Christian faith." A startling interpretation of the Holocaust
in the words of the German pope
by Sandro Magister
That's odd, there wasn't an Israel while the Nazis were in power, so
how could they have tried to destroy it?
Colin Day aa #1500
oooo good question. :)
--
L'Chaim
Miriam
In the beginning
the Word already was.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: The Pope At Auschwitz: By Destroying Israel, Nazis Wanted To Kill God |
15 Jun 2006 07:19:02 AM |
|
|
Miriam Cohen wrote:
Colin Day wrote:
Sound of Trumpet wrote:
http://www.chiesa.espressonline.it/dettaglio.jsp?id=61221&eng=y
The Pope at Auschwitz: "They wanted to kill God"
"By destroying Israel, they ultimately wanted to tear up the taproot
of the Christian faith." A startling interpretation of the Holocaust
in the words of the German pope
by Sandro Magister
That's odd, there wasn't an Israel while the Nazis were in power, so
how could they have tried to destroy it?
Colin Day aa #1500
oooo good question. :)
--
L'Chaim
Miriam
=======
It's a *stupid* question.
In the book of Ezekiel God repeatedly speaks to Israel during the
Babylonian exile.
Which proves that Israel is a people even when they are not in the
Promised Land.
In Daniel chapter 9 Daniel repeatedly speaks about Israel as though it
still exists during the Babylonian exile.
Which proves that Israel is a people even when they are not in the
Promised Land.
- moshe
.
|
|
|
| User: "raven1" |
|
| Title: Re: The Pope At Auschwitz: By Destroying Israel, Nazis Wanted To Kill God |
15 Jun 2006 05:05:39 PM |
|
|
On 15 Jun 2006 05:19:02 -0700, wrote:
Miriam Cohen wrote:
Colin Day wrote:
Sound of Trumpet wrote:
http://www.chiesa.espressonline.it/dettaglio.jsp?id=61221&eng=y
The Pope at Auschwitz: "They wanted to kill God"
"By destroying Israel, they ultimately wanted to tear up the taproot
of the Christian faith." A startling interpretation of the Holocaust
in the words of the German pope
by Sandro Magister
That's odd, there wasn't an Israel while the Nazis were in power, so
how could they have tried to destroy it?
Colin Day aa #1500
oooo good question. :)
--
L'Chaim
Miriam
=======
It's a *stupid* question.
In the book of Ezekiel God repeatedly speaks to Israel during the
Babylonian exile.
Which proves that Israel is a people even when they are not in the
Promised Land.
In Daniel chapter 9 Daniel repeatedly speaks about Israel as though it
still exists during the Babylonian exile.
Which proves that Israel is a people even when they are not in the
Promised Land.
Taking mythology as "proof" of anything is pretty stupid, actually...
--
"O Sybilli, si ergo
Fortibus es in ero
O Nobili! Themis trux
Sivat sinem? Causen Dux"
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "zr" |
|
| Title: Re: The Pope At Auschwitz: By Destroying Israel, Nazis Wanted To Kill God |
14 Jun 2006 10:12:21 PM |
|
|
There has always been an Israel.
It has only been a matter of time till it was re-activated.
"Colin Day" <cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:xS2kg.18992$Qg.11540@tornado.southeast.rr.com...
Sound of Trumpet wrote:
http://www.chiesa.espressonline.it/dettaglio.jsp?id=61221&eng=y
The Pope at Auschwitz: "They wanted to kill God"
"By destroying Israel, they ultimately wanted to tear up the taproot
of the Christian faith." A startling interpretation of the Holocaust
in the words of the German pope
by Sandro Magister
That's odd, there wasn't an Israel while the Nazis were in power, so
how could they have tried to destroy it?
Colin Day aa #1500
.
|
|
|
| User: "Matt Giwer" |
|
| Title: Re: The Pope At Auschwitz: By Destroying Israel, Nazis Wanted ToKill God |
14 Jun 2006 10:34:32 PM |
|
|
zr wrote:
There has always been an Israel.
It has only been a matter of time till it was re-activated.
The 1948 Israel is the first one known to have existed. There is no evidence of
the existence of any biblical Israel and thus it remains a myth.
--
Chutzpah, def., murdering Palestinians and then regretting their deaths.
Ex. We will never forgive them for making us kill them.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3663
nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
commentary http://www.giwersworld.org/opinion/running.phtml a5
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Matt Giwer" |
|
| Title: Re: The Pope At Auschwitz: By Destroying Israel, Nazis Wanted ToKill God |
10 Jun 2006 05:19:38 AM |
|
|
Sound of Trumpet wrote:
http://www.chiesa.espressonline.it/dettaglio.jsp?id=61221&eng=y
The Pope at Auschwitz: "They wanted to kill God"
Sound of Fart is a dirty papist!!!
Crucify him!
--
80% of the Palestinians turned out for their last election. Maybe we should
put them in charge of exporting democracy.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3640
nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
http://www.giwersworld.org
.
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
