| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Truth Hunter" |
| Date: |
19 Jun 2005 12:40:08 AM |
| Object: |
The power of Adam's or Jesus' act? |
The power of Adam's or Jesus' act?
The act of Adam (which resulted in the fall) and the act of Jesus dying
on the cross (which yields salvation). His point was, "Because Adam
sinned all people are born sinful" and "Jesus' act was greater
than Adams' because in dying on the cross, every sin, past, present
and future are covered." Now, looking at the impact of each act, my
initial thought was, "Adams' act seems to have a greater impact on
mankind than Jesus'. My reason, and this is what I need your
clarification on, is if this is all true then Adam's act affects
every person without fail, (we are ALL born sinful) while Jesus' act
has the potential to affect all humanity but does not (the power of
this act appears to depend on a persons/believers acceptance before it
can have any affect and the Bible talks about "not all will be
saved") then Adam's act is more far reaching, (has an impact on
more people), and therefore was a greater act.?
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org
Bumper Sticker
DIVINE INSANITY
God killed himself on the cross to save his own creation fro=ADm his own
wrath!(Author unknown)
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| User: "kathryn" |
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| Title: Re: The power of Adam's or Jesus' act? |
19 Jun 2005 03:13:24 PM |
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"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119141608.310524.56040@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
The power of Adam's or Jesus' act?
many fictional works are littered with inconsistencies
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: The power of Adam's or Jesus' act? |
19 Jun 2005 03:16:08 AM |
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Adam's decision to rebel against God's will resulted in death. In the
first death, people's health continues to decline until they eventually
enter the grave. In the second death, they are destroyed in the Lake
of Fire (Rev 20:14, 21:8).
In the covenent relation, the one who breaks the covenent must die.
This was a major theme of the sacrificial system. If Jews didn't
believe that "And according to the law almost all things are purified
with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission." (Heb
9:22), then why sacrifice animals?
Yeshua's perfect obedience to the Father proved that God's Law is fair,
and it could be followed. He fulfilled OT prophecy
(http://www.angelfire.com/theforce/thanks_4_life/messiah.html) showing
that He is the Messiah spoken of by the prophets of God. He took up
our transgressions and became the sacrificial Lamb. The resurrection
reveals His power over death and more fulfillment of prophecy.
If you consider God's decision to allow people who despise Him and His
Law to be lost less powerfull than Adam's decision to rebel against
God, causing people to be born into a sinful world (or causing the
world to be sinful), than I understand why you think this way. But
then again, if God wanted to force humanity to be saved, why didn't he
rewire their brains to lose their power of choice? Then love would
fail to exist among humanity.
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| User: "Don - - - - - ---" |
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| Title: Re: The power of Adam's or Jesus' act? |
19 Jun 2005 03:41:24 AM |
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On 18 Jun 2005 20:16:08 -0700, "snert_master@yahoo.com"
<snert_master@yahoo.com> wrote:
Adam's decision to rebel against God's will resulted in death. In the
first death, people's health continues to decline until they eventually
enter the grave. In the second death, they are destroyed in the Lake
of Fire (Rev 20:14, 21:8).
In the covenent relation, the one who breaks the covenent must die.
This was a major theme of the sacrificial system.
Adam and Eve had no choice. God created them and COMMANDED that they
not eat of the fruit. There was no covenant there, only a
dictatorship.
If Jews didn't
believe that "And according to the law almost all things are purified
with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission." (Heb
9:22), then why sacrifice animals?
Hebrews 10:4, "For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of
goats should take away sins."
Yeah...if the blood of bulls and goats can't take away sin, then why
sacrifice animals?
Yeshua's perfect obedience to the Father proved that God's Law is fair,
and it could be followed.
Yeshua's perfect obedience to the Father proved that God can keep
God's law, not that humans can. Remember, humans are condemned
already...or haven't you heard that there are none righteous, no, not
one. Humans have all gone out of their way, no man seeks God. Since,
from birth, no man seeks God, then how could you possibly state such a
stupid cliche as the above?
He fulfilled OT prophecy
(http://www.angelfire.com/theforce/thanks_4_life/messiah.html) showing
that He is the Messiah spoken of by the prophets of God.
Cliche.
He took up our transgressions
Cliche.
and became the sacrificial Lamb.
Cliche.
The resurrection
reveals His power over death and more fulfillment of prophecy.
If you consider God's decision to allow people who despise Him and His
Law to be lost less powerfull than Adam's decision to rebel against
God, causing people to be born into a sinful world (or causing the
world to be sinful),
Why would God blame you for something that Adam did 6000 years ago?
Do you really think that is fair?
"The only books or ideas that usually influence us are those which have gone
just a little bit further down our particular path than we have gone ourselves."
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by ignorance."
-- Edward T. Babinski
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: The power of Adam's or Jesus' act? |
19 Jun 2005 02:50:10 AM |
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On 18 Jun 2005, Truth Hunter dropped trou, farted, whirled, then shouted:
The power of Adam's or Jesus' act?
The act of Adam (which resulted in the fall) and the act of Jesus dying
on the cross (which yields salvation). His point was, "Because Adam
sinned all people are born sinful" and "Jesus' act was greater
than Adams' because in dying on the cross, every sin, past, present
and future are covered." Now, looking at the impact of each act, my
initial thought was, "Adams' act seems to have a greater impact on
mankind than Jesus'. My reason, and this is what I need your
clarification on, is if this is all true then Adam's act affects
every person without fail, (we are ALL born sinful) while Jesus' act
has the potential to affect all humanity but does not (the power of
this act appears to depend on a persons/believers acceptance before it
can have any affect and the Bible talks about "not all will be
saved") then Adam's act is more far reaching, (has an impact on
more people), and therefore was a greater act.?
There is too much wrong with the A&E story for it to hold water. For one
thing, snakes don't talk. For another thing, an omniscient god would
have been able to find them in the garden when they were hiding. The
bible claims Adam was created out of dirt. Evolution has disproven this
myth, which leads to a very serious problem. If there was no A&E, there
was no fall from grace. No original sin.
I fail to understand why we need to be saved by a jesus.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
Plonked by Jason Gastrich for all eternity...
Lovingly plonked by Roger Pearse
______________
"I'm sickened by all religions. Religion has divided people. I don't
think there's any difference between the pope wearing a large hat and
parading around with a smoking purse and an African painting his face
white and praying to a rock."
[Howard Stern]
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| User: "AcesLucky" |
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| Title: Re: The power of Adam's or Jesus' act? |
19 Jun 2005 12:51:43 AM |
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Truth Hunter wrote:
The power of Adam's or Jesus' act?
The act of Adam (which resulted in the fall) and the act of Jesus dying
on the cross (which yields salvation). His point was, "Because Adam
sinned all people are born sinful" and "Jesus' act was greater
than Adams' because in dying on the cross, every sin, past, present
and future are covered." Now, looking at the impact of each act, my
initial thought was, "Adams' act seems to have a greater impact on
mankind than Jesus'. My reason, and this is what I need your
clarification on, is if this is all true then Adam's act affects
every person without fail, (we are ALL born sinful) while Jesus' act
has the potential to affect all humanity but does not (the power of
this act appears to depend on a persons/believers acceptance before it
can have any affect and the Bible talks about "not all will be
saved") then Adam's act is more far reaching, (has an impact on
more people), and therefore was a greater act.?
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org
Bumper Sticker
DIVINE INSANITY
God killed himself on the cross to save his own creation from his own
wrath!(Author unknown)
---
You are correct.
Adam's act is absolute, altered only by Jesus' act which is conditional.
Of course all those poor souls who died prior to Jesus's act are
screwed. (Unless they can believe while dead. It could happen!)
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: The power of Adam's or Jesus' act? |
19 Jun 2005 02:50:57 AM |
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On 18 Jun 2005, AcesLucky dropped trou, farted, whirled, then shouted:
Truth Hunter wrote:
The power of Adam's or Jesus' act?
The act of Adam (which resulted in the fall) and the act of Jesus
dying on the cross (which yields salvation). His point was, "Because
Adam sinned all people are born sinful" and "Jesus' act was greater
than Adams' because in dying on the cross, every sin, past, present
and future are covered." Now, looking at the impact of each act, my
initial thought was, "Adams' act seems to have a greater impact on
mankind than Jesus'. My reason, and this is what I need your
clarification on, is if this is all true then Adam's act affects
every person without fail, (we are ALL born sinful) while Jesus' act
has the potential to affect all humanity but does not (the power of
this act appears to depend on a persons/believers acceptance before
it can have any affect and the Bible talks about "not all will be
saved") then Adam's act is more far reaching, (has an impact on
more people), and therefore was a greater act.?
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org
Bumper Sticker
DIVINE INSANITY
God killed himself on the cross to save his own creation from his
own wrath!(Author unknown)
---
You are correct.
Adam's act is absolute, altered only by Jesus' act which is
conditional.
Of course all those poor souls who died prior to Jesus's act are
screwed. (Unless they can believe while dead. It could happen!)
How?
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
Plonked by Jason Gastrich for all eternity...
Lovingly plonked by Roger Pearse
______________
"I'm sickened by all religions. Religion has divided people. I don't
think there's any difference between the pope wearing a large hat and
parading around with a smoking purse and an African painting his face
white and praying to a rock." [Howard Stern]
.
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| User: "AcesLucky" |
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| Title: Re: The power of Adam's or Jesus' act? |
22 Jun 2005 04:12:20 AM |
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Vic Sagerquist wrote:
On 18 Jun 2005, AcesLucky dropped trou, farted, whirled, then shouted:
Truth Hunter wrote:
The power of Adam's or Jesus' act?
The act of Adam (which resulted in the fall) and the act of Jesus
dying on the cross (which yields salvation). His point was, "Because
Adam sinned all people are born sinful" and "Jesus' act was greater
than Adams' because in dying on the cross, every sin, past, present
and future are covered." Now, looking at the impact of each act, my
initial thought was, "Adams' act seems to have a greater impact on
mankind than Jesus'. My reason, and this is what I need your
clarification on, is if this is all true then Adam's act affects
every person without fail, (we are ALL born sinful) while Jesus' act
has the potential to affect all humanity but does not (the power of
this act appears to depend on a persons/believers acceptance before
it can have any affect and the Bible talks about "not all will be
saved") then Adam's act is more far reaching, (has an impact on
more people), and therefore was a greater act.?
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org
Bumper Sticker
DIVINE INSANITY
God killed himself on the cross to save his own creation from his
own wrath!(Author unknown)
---
You are correct.
Adam's act is absolute, altered only by Jesus' act which is
conditional.
Of course all those poor souls who died prior to Jesus's act are
screwed. (Unless they can believe while dead. It could happen!)
How?
Because one fairy's tale smells as good as another.
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| User: "Douglas Cox" |
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| Title: Re: The power of Adam's or Jesus' act? |
19 Jun 2005 12:42:37 PM |
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On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 17:51:43 -0700, AcesLucky <AcesLucky@netscape.net>
wrote:
Truth Hunter wrote:
The power of Adam's or Jesus' act?
The act of Adam (which resulted in the fall) and the act of Jesus dying
on the cross (which yields salvation). His point was, "Because Adam
sinned all people are born sinful" and "Jesus' act was greater
than Adams' because in dying on the cross, every sin, past, present
and future are covered." Now, looking at the impact of each act, my
initial thought was, "Adams' act seems to have a greater impact on
mankind than Jesus'. My reason, and this is what I need your
clarification on, is if this is all true then Adam's act affects
every person without fail, (we are ALL born sinful) while Jesus' act
has the potential to affect all humanity but does not (the power of
this act appears to depend on a persons/believers acceptance before it
can have any affect and the Bible talks about "not all will be
saved") then Adam's act is more far reaching, (has an impact on
more people), and therefore was a greater act.?
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org
Bumper Sticker
DIVINE INSANITY
God killed himself on the cross to save his own creation from his own
wrath!(Author unknown)
---
You are correct.
You disagree with Paul, then. Notice the *all* in vs 22 below:
1 Cor 15:20 ¶ But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the
firstfruits of them that slept.
1 Cor 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the
resurrection of the dead.
1 Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be
made alive.
1 Cor 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits;
afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.
1 Cor 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the
kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule
and all authority and power.
1 Cor 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his
feet.
1 Cor 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
If death is destroyed, how can anyone remain dead?
Adam's act is absolute, altered only by Jesus' act which is conditional.
Men make conditions, denominations, labels, rules, etc. Jesus said,
"beware of men". Mt 10:17.
Paul wrote, Rom 5:8 "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that,
while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."
Peter said, quoting the prophet Joel, Acts 2:21 "And it shall come to
pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be
saved."
Of course all those poor souls who died prior to Jesus's act are
screwed. (Unless they can believe while dead. It could happen!)
Jesus said, John 5:28 "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in
the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice."
You think they won't believe then?
Doug
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| User: "Ben Goren" |
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| Title: Re: The power of Adam's or Jesus' act? |
19 Jun 2005 04:11:30 PM |
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Douglas Cox wrote:
Paul wrote, Rom 5:8 "But God commendeth his love toward us, in
that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."
Frankly, anybody who wants the love of somebody who kills
everybody who loves him is nuts. *Especially* when said God kills
people as a symbol of love and the end of death.
What is it with this death cult that makes it so damned popular?
Cheers,
b&
--
God can never prove that this sentence is true.
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
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| User: "Ordog" |
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| Title: Re: The power of Adam's or Jesus' act? |
19 Jun 2005 01:10:07 AM |
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Truth Hunter wrote:
The power of Adam's or Jesus' act?
The act of Adam (which resulted in the fall) and the act of Jesus dying
on the cross (which yields salvation). His point was, "Because Adam
sinned all people are born sinful" and "Jesus' act was greater
than Adams' because in dying on the cross, every sin, past, present
and future are covered." Now, looking at the impact of each act, my
initial thought was, "Adams' act seems to have a greater impact on
mankind than Jesus'. My reason, and this is what I need your
clarification on, is if this is all true then Adam's act affects
every person without fail, (we are ALL born sinful) while Jesus' act
has the potential to affect all humanity but does not (the power of
this act appears to depend on a persons/believers acceptance before it
can have any affect and the Bible talks about "not all will be
saved") then Adam's act is more far reaching, (has an impact on
more people), and therefore was a greater act.?
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org
Bumper Sticker
DIVINE INSANITY
God killed himself on the cross to save his own creation fro=ADm his own
wrath!(Author unknown)
How does all this nonsense effects alt.atheism?
Imaginary Adam and Non-existent Jesus-God!
Who gives a sh.t?
Ordog
"Beware of the man whose God is in the skies." Bernard Shaw
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| User: "Johnny P" |
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| Title: Re: The power of Adam's or Jesus' act? |
19 Jun 2005 11:13:35 AM |
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Found this site a little interesting in case anybody wanted to take a look.
http://www.radix.net/~dglenn/defs/ce.html
t
"Ordog" <odbok001@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:1119143407.444251.121990@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Truth Hunter wrote:
The power of Adam's or Jesus' act?
The act of Adam (which resulted in the fall) and the act of Jesus dying
on the cross (which yields salvation). His point was, "Because Adam
sinned all people are born sinful" and "Jesus' act was greater
than Adams' because in dying on the cross, every sin, past, present
and future are covered." Now, looking at the impact of each act, my
initial thought was, "Adams' act seems to have a greater impact on
mankind than Jesus'. My reason, and this is what I need your
clarification on, is if this is all true then Adam's act affects
every person without fail, (we are ALL born sinful) while Jesus' act
has the potential to affect all humanity but does not (the power of
this act appears to depend on a persons/believers acceptance before it
can have any affect and the Bible talks about "not all will be
saved") then Adam's act is more far reaching, (has an impact on
more people), and therefore was a greater act.?
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org
Bumper Sticker
DIVINE INSANITY
God killed himself on the cross to save his own creation from his own
wrath!(Author unknown)
How does all this nonsense effects alt.atheism?
Imaginary Adam and Non-existent Jesus-God!
Who gives a sh.t?
Ordog
"Beware of the man whose God is in the skies." Bernard Shaw
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| User: "James" |
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| Title: Re: The power of Adam's or Jesus' act? |
19 Jun 2005 01:23:05 AM |
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Ordog wrote:
Truth Hunter wrote:
The power of Adam's or Jesus' act?
The act of Adam (which resulted in the fall) and the act of Jesus dying
on the cross (which yields salvation). His point was, "Because Adam
sinned all people are born sinful" and "Jesus' act was greater
than Adams' because in dying on the cross, every sin, past, present
and future are covered." Now, looking at the impact of each act, my
initial thought was, "Adams' act seems to have a greater impact on
mankind than Jesus'. My reason, and this is what I need your
clarification on, is if this is all true then Adam's act affects
every person without fail, (we are ALL born sinful) while Jesus' act
has the potential to affect all humanity but does not (the power of
this act appears to depend on a persons/believers acceptance before it
can have any affect and the Bible talks about "not all will be
saved") then Adam's act is more far reaching, (has an impact on
more people), and therefore was a greater act.?
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org
Bumper Sticker
DIVINE INSANITY
God killed himself on the cross to save his own creation from his own
wrath!(Author unknown)
How does all this nonsense effects alt.atheism?
Imaginary Adam and Non-existent Jesus-God!
Who gives a sh.t?
It doesn't. Why these people like to include aa in their crossposts
utterly escapes me.
--
James B, defeating birth control since 2000
aa #944
"Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies."
-Friedrich Nietzsche
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| User: "Ben Goren" |
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| Title: Re: The power of Adam's or Jesus' act? |
19 Jun 2005 01:40:18 AM |
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Truth Hunter wrote:
The power of Adam's or Jesus' act?
Zero being perfectly equal with zero, I'd have to say they're
exactly the same.
Now, if you want to get into literary analysis, I'd have to say
that God's actions in Genesis--namely, where he decided to create
Adam and Eve without a sense of morality, deliberately created a
public hazard and intentionally failed to protect Adam and Eve
from it, and then used the whole fiasco as an excuse to torture
and murder you, me, and the rest of humanity; versus God having a
single supposedly-innocent man tortured and murdered as a symbol
of the end of pain and death....
....well, in that case, I'd have to say that they're *both*
excellent examples of God using his power in ways that even Satan
would find reprehensible--not that that would necessarily stop
either of them from indulging.
Heck, if we're going with critical interpretation here, I'd have
to say that Christians, as a rule, leave the most important of
their gods out of the Trinity. It should really be a Quadrinity,
with Satan as the primary lead. I mean, surely Jesus wouldn't have
been the one to destroy the whole world? Was it the Holy Spirit
that sent bears to shred kids or that tortured a herd of pigs
before drowning them? Did the Father personally slaughter all
those Egyptian children? No, of course not! It was Satan, every
time, all along. And, boy, does Satan have the other three whipped
into shape but good! The copyists just mixed up the names, is all.
You posted your drivel in alt.atheism...because?
Cheers,
b&
--
God can never prove that this sentence is true.
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
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