| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Mark Plus" |
| Date: |
16 Sep 2003 08:29:01 PM |
| Object: |
The second god problem |
If we're supposed to obey the currently accepted god without question
because of its nature and power, what would we do if we discover a
second god, comparable to the first, who tells us to do otherwise?
And how could christian apologists prove that this can't happen?
They've already discredited in their minds all the arguments against
the existence of the first god, so they have presuppositionally
disarmed themselves regarding the existence of a rival god who might
have an equally legitimate claim to authority.
I think this might also show the fallacy of the argument, which never
made any sense to me any way, that we need a god to tell us what to
do.
I would welcome some critiques of this idea.
Mark Plus
"Stargate" is right: God IS our enemy!
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| User: "Samir Ribic" |
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| Title: Re: The second god problem |
17 Sep 2003 02:53:53 AM |
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(Mark Plus) wrote in message news:<4886cf3e.0309161729.6d76dfb8@posting.google.com>...
If we're supposed to obey the currently accepted god without question
because of its nature and power, what would we do if we discover a
second god, comparable to the first, who tells us to do otherwise?
Actually it already happened in history. In Europe existed several
dualist groups: Cathars (France), Bogumiles (Bulgaria and Bosnia),
Patharens, Albuigeneses, Lombardian poormans (Italy) which were active
in period 900-1815AD. They are descendants from Maniheism. They mainly
belived that god Yahwe from Old testament and god Father from New
testament are two distinct gods. The first one is bad god and he
created matherial universe, the second one is good god who created
spiritual. The gods live separately and maybe even they do not know
that other one exists.
About Jesus, they belived that he entered to angel Mary as ghost, and
his ressurection was only an illusion, because body can not be
ressurected even in case of Jesus. They did not use crosses, hated
water for baptising because it is material thing, baptised adults,
etc.
And how could christian apologists prove that this can't happen?
They've already discredited in their minds all the arguments against
the existence of the first god, so they have presuppositionally
disarmed themselves regarding the existence of a rival god who might
have an equally legitimate claim to authority.
Then christians used their proven method: Holy Wars. Popes several
times guided wars to Carcason in France and attacked Bosnia where
Bogumiles were so strong that even kings accepted this religion. The
effect was, weakining of Europe itself. After Turkey conqered Balcan
penninsula the remaining dualists accepted Islam.
I think this might also show the fallacy of the argument, which never
made any sense to me any way, that we need a god to tell us what to
do.
I would welcome some critiques of this idea.
Mark Plus
"Stargate" is right: God IS our enemy!
.
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| User: "towelie" |
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| Title: Re: The second god problem |
17 Sep 2003 03:55:45 AM |
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Samir Ribic wrote:
markplus@hotmail.com (Mark Plus) wrote in message
news:<4886cf3e.0309161729.6d76dfb8@posting.google.com>...
If we're supposed to obey the currently accepted god without question
because of its nature and power, what would we do if we discover a
second god, comparable to the first, who tells us to do otherwise?
Actually it already happened in history. In Europe existed several
dualist groups: Cathars (France), Bogumiles (Bulgaria and Bosnia),
Patharens, Albuigeneses, Lombardian poormans (Italy) which were active
in period 900-1815AD. They are descendants from Maniheism. They mainly
belived that god Yahwe from Old testament and god Father from New
testament are two distinct gods. The first one is bad god and he
created matherial universe, the second one is good god who created
spiritual. The gods live separately and maybe even they do not know
that other one exists.
That shoots the "omniscent" angle right out of the water.
--
Sometimes God takes those closest to us, because it makes him feel
better about himself. He is a very vengeful God. He's all *****
about something we did thousands of years ago. He just can't get over
it, so he doesn't care who he takes. Children, puppies, it don't matter
to him, so long as it makes us sad...God gives us life and love and
help just so that he can tear it all away and make us cry, so he can
drink the sweet milk of our tears. You see, it's our tears that give
God his great power.
aa #2133
apatriot #19
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| User: "William Klee" |
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| Title: Re: The second god problem |
16 Sep 2003 10:38:22 PM |
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In article <4886cf3e.0309161729.6d76dfb8@posting.google.com>, Mark Plus
<markplus@hotmail.com> wrote:
If we're supposed to obey the currently accepted god without question
because of its nature and power, what would we do if we discover a
second god, comparable to the first, who tells us to do otherwise?
Don't they already have that problem, to a degree? Who to worship, god,
junior or the spook?
And how could christian apologists prove that this can't happen?
They've already discredited in their minds all the arguments against
the existence of the first god, so they have presuppositionally
disarmed themselves regarding the existence of a rival god who might
have an equally legitimate claim to authority.
I think this might also show the fallacy of the argument, which never
made any sense to me any way, that we need a god to tell us what to
do.
*We* don't need a god to tell us what to do, the *church* needs us to
have a god to tell us what to do.
I would welcome some critiques of this idea.
Mark Plus
"Stargate" is right: God IS our enemy!
re: your sig: *and* god is an evil, megalomanical, cowardly parasite
pretending to be something/someone he isn't.
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| User: "Melchizedek" |
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| Title: Re: The second god problem |
16 Sep 2003 11:28:07 PM |
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"Stargate" is right: God IS our enemy!
--- You are correct. :-D".
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| User: "Thomas P." |
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| Title: Re: The second god problem |
17 Sep 2003 03:16:50 AM |
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On 16 Sep 2003 18:29:01 -0700, (Mark Plus) wrote:
If we're supposed to obey the currently accepted god without question
because of its nature and power, what would we do if we discover a
second god, comparable to the first, who tells us to do otherwise?
And how could christian apologists prove that this can't happen?
They can easily argue against it. They have a very large advantage,
in that their arguments do not need to make any sense. Witness Duke's
frequent response when someone tries to apply his "logic" to some
other god. He claims it cannot be done, because his god is the real
one.
Besides that they have already switched gods once.
They've already discredited in their minds all the arguments against
the existence of the first god, so they have presuppositionally
disarmed themselves regarding the existence of a rival god who might
have an equally legitimate claim to authority.
I think this might also show the fallacy of the argument, which never
made any sense to me any way, that we need a god to tell us what to
do.
I would welcome some critiques of this idea.
Mark Plus
"Stargate" is right: God IS our enemy!
Thomas P.
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| User: "duke32" |
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| Title: Re: The second god problem |
17 Sep 2003 10:55:10 AM |
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On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:16:50 +0200, Thomas P.
<tonyofremovethisbexar@yahoo.dk,> wrote:
And how could christian apologists prove that this can't happen?
They can easily argue against it. They have a very large advantage,
in that their arguments do not need to make any sense. Witness Duke's
frequent response when someone tries to apply his "logic" to some
other god. He claims it cannot be done, because his god is the real
one.
Besides that, none of the others has ever lifted a finger.
Besides that they have already switched gods once.
Who did?
duke, American-American
*****
2Cor 5:10 - For we must all appear before the
judgment seat of Christ, that each one may
receive what is due him for the things done
while in the body, whether good or bad.
*****
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| User: "Mekkala" |
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| Title: Re: The second god problem |
17 Sep 2003 11:14:01 AM |
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On 17 Sep 2003, duke32 <duke32@earthlink.net> screwed up his face,
groaned, pushed hard, and farted out the following message in
news:tp0hmv4m6id1jqo9vjostq5vt0lvpf0016@4ax.com:
On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:16:50 +0200, Thomas P.
<tonyofremovethisbexar@yahoo.dk,> wrote:
And how could christian apologists prove that this can't happen?
They can easily argue against it. They have a very large advantage,
in that their arguments do not need to make any sense. Witness Duke's
frequent response when someone tries to apply his "logic" to some
other god. He claims it cannot be done, because his god is the real
one.
Besides that, none of the others has ever lifted a finger.
Duke! You're learning!
Yes, you are *entirely* correct. None of the other gods have ever
lifted a finger. Hmm... neither has yours. You disagree? Point me to
a verifiable case of your God "lifting a finger".
Besides that they have already switched gods once.
Who did?
Christians.
--
Mekkala, Atheist #2148
"When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly
realized I was talking to myself!"
--Peter O'Toole.
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| User: "Thomas P." |
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| Title: Re: The second god problem |
17 Sep 2003 01:05:25 PM |
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On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:55:10 GMT, duke32 <duke32@earthlink.net> wrote:
On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:16:50 +0200, Thomas P.
<tonyofremovethisbexar@yahoo.dk,> wrote:
And how could christian apologists prove that this can't happen?
They can easily argue against it. They have a very large advantage,
in that their arguments do not need to make any sense. Witness Duke's
frequent response when someone tries to apply his "logic" to some
other god. He claims it cannot be done, because his god is the real
one.
Besides that, none of the others has ever lifted a finger.
Good, good! A small step but still a good sign.
Besides that they have already switched gods once.
Who did?
Sorry you are not ready for so much reality at one time. You have
figured out that the other gods never did anything. That is a
beginning. Perhaps next year you will be ready for the other half of
that fact.
Thomas P.
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| User: "duke32" |
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| Title: Re: The second god problem |
17 Sep 2003 10:53:15 AM |
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On 16 Sep 2003 18:29:01 -0700, (Mark Plus) wrote:
If we're supposed to obey the currently accepted god without question
because of its nature and power, what would we do if we discover a
second god, comparable to the first, who tells us to do otherwise?
There is none other.
And how could christian apologists prove that this can't happen?
They've already discredited in their minds all the arguments against
the existence of the first god, so they have presuppositionally
disarmed themselves regarding the existence of a rival god who might
have an equally legitimate claim to authority.
Wow, when did this happen?
I think this might also show the fallacy of the argument, which never
made any sense to me any way, that we need a god to tell us what to
do.
We don't, unless we want to share an eternity with him after our
bodies die.
I would welcome some critiques of this idea.
Critique: There is no intelligence evident in your post.
duke, American-American
*****
2Cor 5:10 - For we must all appear before the
judgment seat of Christ, that each one may
receive what is due him for the things done
while in the body, whether good or bad.
*****
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