| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Sean C" |
| Date: |
23 Jul 2006 10:49:51 AM |
| Object: |
The Shame of Being An American |
The Shame of Being
An American
By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS
http://counterpunch.org/Roberts07222006.html
<excerpt>
Do you know that Israel is engaged in ethnic cleansing in southern
Lebanon? Israel has ordered all the villagers to clear out. Israel
then destroys their homes and murders the fleeing villagers. That way
there is no one to come back and nothing to which to return, making it
easier for Israel to grab the territory, just as Israel has been
stealing Palestine from the Palestinians.
Do you know that one-third of the Lebanese civilians murdered by
Israelıs attacks on civilian residential districts are children? That
is the report from Jan Egeland, the emergency relief coordinator for
the UN. He says it is impossible for help to reach the wounded and
those buried in rubble, because Israeli air strikes have blown up all
the bridges and roads. Considering how often (almost always) Israel
misses Hizbollah targets and hits civilian ones, one might think that
Israeli fire is being guided by US satellites and US military GPS.
Donıt be surprised at US complicity. Why would the puppet be any less
evil than the puppet master?
Of course, you donıt know these things, because the US print and TV
media do not report them.
Because Bush is so proud of himself, you do know that he has blocked
every effort to stop the Israeli slaughter of Lebanese civilians. Bush
has told the UN ³NO.² Bush has told the European Community ³NO.² Bush
has told the pro-American Lebanese prime minister ³NO.² Twice. Bush
is very proud of his firmness. He is enjoying Israelıs rampage and
wishes he could do the same thing in Iraq.
Does it make you a Proud American that ³your² president gave Israel the
green light to drop bombs on convoys of villagers fleeing from Israeli
shelling, on residential neighborhoods in the capital of Beirut and
throughout Lebanon, on hospitals, on power plants, on food production
and storage, on ports, on civilian airports, on bridges, on roads, on
every piece of infrastructure on which civilized life depends? Are you
a Proud American? Or are you an Israeli puppet?
On July 20, ³your² House of Representatives voted 410-8 in favor of
Israelıs massive war crimes in Lebanon. Not content with making every
American complicit in war crimes, ³your² House of Representatives,
according to the Associated Press, also ³condemns enemies of the Jewish
state.²
Who are the ³enemies of the Jewish state²?
They are the Palestinians whose land has been stolen by the Jewish
state, whose homes and olive groves have been destroyed by the Jewish
state, whose children have been shot down in the streets by the Jewish
state, whose women have been abused by the Jewish state. They are
Palestinians who have been walled off into ghettos, who cannot reach
their farm lands or medical care or schools, who cannot drive on roads
through Palestine that have been constructed for Israelis only. They
are Palestinians whose ancient towns have been invaded by militant
Zionist ³settlers² under the protection of the Israeli army who beat
and persecute the Palestinians and drive them out of their towns. They
are Palestinians who cannot allow their children outside their homes
because they will be murdered by Israeli ³settlers.²
.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: The Shame of Being An American |
01 Aug 2006 05:01:05 PM |
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On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 11:49:51 -0400, in alt.atheism , Sean C
<redhawk@burnspammersalive.com> in
<230720061149510258%redhawk@burnspammersalive.com> wrote:
The Shame of Being
An American
By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS
http://counterpunch.org/Roberts07222006.html
<excerpt>
Do you know that Israel is engaged in ethnic cleansing in southern
Lebanon? Israel has ordered all the villagers to clear out.
What grotesque disgusting and frankly racist nonsense. Israel has
tried to minimize civilian casualties, Hezbollah has tried to maximize
them, both Lebanese and Israeli. It seems that Israel is wrong if it
warns people and wrong if it does not. The only acceptable option, I
assume, is to accept the daily rocket attacks. Hezbollah hides its
rockets among civilians and aims them at civilians and that somehow is
just fine.
Israel
then destroys their homes and murders the fleeing villagers. That way
there is no one to come back and nothing to which to return, making it
easier for Israel to grab the territory, just as Israel has been
stealing Palestine from the Palestinians.
Do you know that one-third of the Lebanese civilians murdered by
Israelıs attacks on civilian residential districts are children?
Do you know that the Lebanese government counts Hezbollah soldiers as
civilians in their death counts?
That
is the report from Jan Egeland, the emergency relief coordinator for
the UN. He says it is impossible for help to reach the wounded and
those buried in rubble, because Israeli air strikes have blown up all
the bridges and roads. Considering how often (almost always) Israel
misses Hizbollah targets and hits civilian ones,
Funny, Hezbollah targets are almost always civilians except when
Israel defends itself. Hezbollah prefers to attack civilians. I wonder
why it is acceptable to kill Israeli civilians but not Lebanese?
one might think that
Israeli fire is being guided by US satellites and US military GPS.
Donıt be surprised at US complicity. Why would the puppet be any less
evil than the puppet master?
And what does that say about Iran?
[snip]
Who are the ³enemies of the Jewish state²?
They are the Palestinians whose land has been stolen by the Jewish
state,
Israel gave back Gaza and withdrew from Lebanon. Why did Hezbollah
step up their attacks?
whose homes and olive groves have been destroyed by the Jewish
state, whose children have been shot down in the streets by the Jewish
state, whose women have been abused by the Jewish state.
The Palestinians women are far more abused by their society, which
requires them to cover up their bodies and kills them if they
"dishonor" their families than they have been abused by the Israelis.
In what country of the Middle East, for example, do you think gay
people have civil rights?
They are
Palestinians who have been walled off into ghettos, who cannot reach
their farm lands or medical care or schools, who cannot drive on roads
through Palestine that have been constructed for Israelis only.
That couldn't have anything to do with the 60 year long Palestinian
terrorist campaign could it? Do you think it is possible for the
Palestinians to ever take responsibility for their own actions?
They
are Palestinians whose ancient towns have been invaded by militant
Zionist ³settlers² under the protection of the Israeli army
As opposed to the more ancient Jewish towns that have been destroyed
by the Arabs, destroyed before Israel even existed. But attacks on
Jews don't seem to count.
who beat
and persecute the Palestinians and drive them out of their towns. They
are Palestinians who cannot allow their children outside their homes
because they will be murdered by Israeli ³settlers.²
They seem to allow them out when they have bombs strapped to them.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
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| User: "Sean C" |
|
| Title: Re: The Shame of Being An American |
12 Aug 2006 02:36:11 AM |
|
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In article <bajvc2dt7doj4b2fjjh6qjq4ma34hs76o5@4ax.com>, Matt
Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 11:49:51 -0400, in alt.atheism , Sean C
<redhawk@burnspammersalive.com> in
<230720061149510258%redhawk@burnspammersalive.com> wrote:
The Shame of Being
An American
By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS
http://counterpunch.org/Roberts07222006.html
<excerpt>
Do you know that Israel is engaged in ethnic cleansing in southern
Lebanon? Israel has ordered all the villagers to clear out.
What grotesque disgusting and frankly racist nonsense.
What is gross, disgusting and frankly racist is the idea that it is
justifiable to destroy an entire country, ethnically cleanse 750,000
innocent people and murder hundreds of innocent civilians over the
capture of two Israeli soldiers.
Israel has
tried to minimize civilian casualties, Hezbollah has tried to maximize
them, both Lebanese and Israeli.It seems that Israel is wrong if it
warns people and wrong if it does not.
*****. Israel has "minimized" civilian casualties by attacking power
plants, ports, grain silos, roads, bridges, schools and hospitals, and
cutting off the whole of South Lebanon from proper access to food,
medicine and supplies. No one believes this pathetic, self-serving
***** anymore. As for the idea that Israel is somehow being
humanitarian by warning people to leave before they attack and kill
them, this is a particulary perverse and despicable lie. "Leave or
we'll kill you" is not humanitarianism, it's ethnic cleansing. Israel
has no right to tell 25 percent of the population of Lebanon they have
to leave their homes.
The only acceptable option, I
assume, is to accept the daily rocket attacks. Hezbollah hides its
rockets among civilians and aims them at civilians and that somehow is
just fine.
The acceptable and civilized option was to do a prisoner exchange,
which would have saved hundreds of lives, including israelis, and an
entire country, and then stay the ***** out of Lebanon: no more car
bombings or assasinations, no more daily violations of Lebanese air
space, no more meddling in their politics. No more *****. But this
isn't about two Israeli soldiers, it's about yet another attempt by
Israel to blow some minor provocation into an excuse for all out war so
they can seize territory they believe some Bronze Age deity has willed
to them in perpetuity.
Israel
then destroys their homes and murders the fleeing villagers. That way
there is no one to come back and nothing to which to return, making it
easier for Israel to grab the territory, just as Israel has been
stealing Palestine from the Palestinians.
Do you know that one-third of the Lebanese civilians murdered by
Israelıs attacks on civilian residential districts are children?
Do you know that the Lebanese government counts Hezbollah soldiers as
civilians in their death counts?
Do you have proof of that? Do you know that the Israeli justice
minister said everybody who stays behind after Israel's "humanitarian"
warnings is a terrorist? Do you know that an Israeli general vowed to
set Lebanon back 20 years, and another said that for every Katyusha
fired, they would destroy 10 apartment buildings (Oh, I'm sorry, I mean
"Hezbollah command bunkers")? Do you know the Yesha Rabbinical Council
has proclaimed that there is no such thing as an innocent civilian? Do
you know what those "humanitarian" leaflets Israel is dropping actually
say?
"each expansion of Hizbollah terrorist operations will lead to a harsh
and powerful response and its painful response will not be confined to
Hassan's gang of criminals".
So much for "not targeting civilians."
That
is the report from Jan Egeland, the emergency relief coordinator for
the UN. He says it is impossible for help to reach the wounded and
those buried in rubble, because Israeli air strikes have blown up all
the bridges and roads. Considering how often (almost always) Israel
misses Hizbollah targets and hits civilian ones,
Funny, Hezbollah targets are almost always civilians except when
Israel defends itself.
This is a lie. It is interesting that the majority of Hezbollah's
victims have been Israeli soldiers, not civilians, whereas the majority
of Israel's victims, even if you accept the IDF's inflated body counts
for Hezbollah, have been civilians. It's only if you believe the
propaganda that apartment buildings are "Hezbollah command bunkers"
that you can believe israel is not targeting civilians.
Hezbollah prefers to attack civilians. I wonder
why it is acceptable to kill Israeli civilians but not Lebanese?
Here you go with your inevitable "I guess it's okay to kill Jews"
strawman. No, it is *not* okay to kill civilians, Jews or otherwise,
and Hezbollah and Israel are both guilty of war crimes. But you're the
one who is apologizing for Israel's state terrorism, fatuously
insisting that the murder of innocent civilians and the very obvious
targeting of civilian infrastructure and homes is either not happening,
or is somehow justified as a form of "self-defence." Go ahead and stick
your head in the sand or up your ***** where you usually keep it, but the
rest of the planet has seen the photos and the videos, and no one is
buying this self-serving, self-pitying Israeli horsehit about self
defense. Only a truly diseased, depraved mind that hasn't been fully
socialized could believe something as divorced from all standards of
reality and civilized conduct as this.
one might think that
Israeli fire is being guided by US satellites and US military GPS.
Donıt be surprised at US complicity. Why would the puppet be any less
evil than the puppet master?
And what does that say about Iran?
It says that Iran is no more or less guilty than America, in fact, far
less so.
[snip]
Who are the ³enemies of the Jewish state²?
They are the Palestinians whose land has been stolen by the Jewish
state,
Israel gave back Gaza and withdrew from Lebanon. Why did Hezbollah
step up their attacks?
Despite the alleged withdrawals, Israel continued to launch military
attacks and kidnappings in Gaza, and carried out car bombings and
assasinations in Lebanon and violated Lebanese air space on an regular
basis. In Gaza, they severely restricted food, fuel and medical
supplies and bombed the only power plant, inducing severe privation in
an already hard-pressed populace; dropped bombs and fired artillery
barrages at civilian targets, killing over 140 people including a
family picnicking on a beach; kidnaped Palestinains, some associated
with Hamas, many not; sent their jets flying low to the ground every
single night to deliver sonic booms in an act of psychological
terrorism against the entire populace, and all this because they
elected leaders the Israelis didn't like. You think all of this abuse,
not to mention Israel's continued barbaric and oppressive occupation of
the West Bank, may have had something to do with the kidnapping of an
Israeli soldier who, unlike a family of 9 picnicking on a beach, was a
legitimate military traget?
whose homes and olive groves have been destroyed by the Jewish
state, whose children have been shot down in the streets by the Jewish
state, whose women have been abused by the Jewish state.
The Palestinians women are far more abused by their society, which
requires them to cover up their bodies and kills them if they
"dishonor" their families than they have been abused by the Israelis.
What a load of racist horsehit. You really are one ignorant
*****. Have you ever seen photos of Palestinian women, or for
that matter, Lebanese? Some of them wear traditional Arab or Muslim
dress, but most wear *Western* clothing, including bikinis, halter
tops, and jeans. Lebanon is a secular, Western democracy, not a Muslim
theocracy. Funny how most Palestinian women don't seem to think the
murder of their family members, destruction of their homes and farms,
seizure of their land, rockets, bombs, artillery barrages, withholding
of food and medicine, curfews, roadbloacks, sonic booms and all the
other minor and major harrassments the Israelis have inflicted on these
people every day of their lives for years is quite so horrible as
having to wear the hijab.
Now let's talk about how Orthodox Jewish women are required to dress.
In what country of the Middle East, for example, do you think gay
people have civil rights?
In which part of the West Bank does a Palestinian enjoy *any* rights,
including the right to exist?
They are
Palestinians who have been walled off into ghettos, who cannot reach
their farm lands or medical care or schools, who cannot drive on roads
through Palestine that have been constructed for Israelis only.
That couldn't have anything to do with the 60 year long Palestinian
terrorist campaign could it? Do you think it is possible for the
Palestinians to ever take responsibility for their own actions?
Do you think the terrorist campaign might have something to do with
Israel's theft of their land, and the brutality it has inflicted on
them for 60 years? Is it possible for Israel to take responsibility for
its actions?
They
are Palestinians whose ancient towns have been invaded by militant
Zionist ³settlers² under the protection of the Israeli army
As opposed to the more ancient Jewish towns that have been destroyed
by the Arabs, destroyed before Israel even existed. But attacks on
Jews don't seem to count.
Attacks on tombs are not the moral equivalent of the ethnic cleansing
of an entire population, but I guess you are another racist sociopath
who thinks "the lives of a million Arabs isn't worth one Jewish
fingernail."
who beat
and persecute the Palestinians and drive them out of their towns. They
are Palestinians who cannot allow their children outside their homes
because they will be murdered by Israeli ³settlers.²
They seem to allow them out when they have bombs strapped to them.
So you have no problem with settlers attacking Palestinian kids.
--Sean C
.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
|
| Title: Re: The Shame of Being An American |
14 Aug 2006 03:16:32 PM |
|
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On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 03:36:11 -0400, in alt.atheism , Sean C
<redhawk@burnspammersalive.com> in
<120820060336119473%redhawk@burnspammersalive.com> wrote:
In article <bajvc2dt7doj4b2fjjh6qjq4ma34hs76o5@4ax.com>, Matt
Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 11:49:51 -0400, in alt.atheism , Sean C
<redhawk@burnspammersalive.com> in
<230720061149510258%redhawk@burnspammersalive.com> wrote:
The Shame of Being
An American
By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS
http://counterpunch.org/Roberts07222006.html
<excerpt>
Do you know that Israel is engaged in ethnic cleansing in southern
Lebanon? Israel has ordered all the villagers to clear out.
What grotesque disgusting and frankly racist nonsense.
What is gross, disgusting and frankly racist is the idea that it is
justifiable to destroy an entire country, ethnically cleanse 750,000
innocent people and murder hundreds of innocent civilians over the
capture of two Israeli soldiers.
How about over the continual bombardment from Lebanon? How about the
continual armed actions by Hezbollah, a part of the Lebanese
government, directed to destroying Israel? If you deliberately close
your eyes to the issues that only blinds you, it does not make them go
away. Israel withdrew from Lebanon 6 years ago, Hezbollah treated that
as a weakness by Israel, not as a step towards peace.
Israel has
tried to minimize civilian casualties, Hezbollah has tried to maximize
them, both Lebanese and Israeli.It seems that Israel is wrong if it
warns people and wrong if it does not.
*****. Israel has "minimized" civilian casualties by attacking power
plants, ports, grain silos, roads, bridges, schools and hospitals,
Hospitals used as military HQ. Please show that they deliberately
targeted schools not being used by Hezbollah as a military target.
and
cutting off the whole of South Lebanon from proper access to food,
medicine and supplies.
Cutting off a dug in enemy from re-supply. And they asked civilians to
leave so Israel could fight. You call that request ethnic cleansing,
but you would object if they did not do it.
No one believes this pathetic, self-serving
***** anymore. As for the idea that Israel is somehow being
humanitarian by warning people to leave before they attack and kill
them, this is a particulary perverse and despicable lie. "Leave or
we'll kill you" is not humanitarianism, it's ethnic cleansing.
Nonsense. If they wanted to do that they could have done it before and
elsewhere. OTOH ethnic cleansing is the *declared goal* of Hezbollah.
I guess killing the Jews is not as bad.
Israel
has no right to tell 25 percent of the population of Lebanon they have
to leave their homes.
They have a right to defend themselves from rocket attacks. Or do you
think that Jews don't have the right of self-defense?
The only acceptable option, I
assume, is to accept the daily rocket attacks. Hezbollah hides its
rockets among civilians and aims them at civilians and that somehow is
just fine.
The acceptable and civilized option was to do a prisoner exchange,
Really? The civilized response is to give in to terrorists?
which would have saved hundreds of lives, including israelis, and an
entire country, and then stay the ***** out of Lebanon:
They withdrew 6 years ago. Hezbollah was supposed to disarm, not build
up more capabilities.
no more car
bombings or assasinations,
You mean the kind of thing that Syria does, right?
no more daily violations of Lebanese air
space,
How about Lebanon actually stop Hezbollah from attacking Israel?
no more meddling in their politics. No more *****. But this
isn't about two Israeli soldiers, it's about yet another attempt by
Israel to blow some minor provocation
Another? Like the 67 War? Or the 73 War?
into an excuse for all out war so
they can seize territory
Territory they withdrew from 6 years ago.
they believe some Bronze Age deity has willed
to them in perpetuity.
And so your religious bigotry comes into play. Somehow the Jews have
fewer rights because they are religious. (Let us ignore the religious
motivations behind Hezbollah.)
Israel
then destroys their homes and murders the fleeing villagers. That way
there is no one to come back and nothing to which to return, making it
easier for Israel to grab the territory, just as Israel has been
stealing Palestine from the Palestinians.
Do you know that one-third of the Lebanese civilians murdered by
Israelıs attacks on civilian residential districts are children?
Do you know that the Lebanese government counts Hezbollah soldiers as
civilians in their death counts?
Do you have proof of that?
It was what they said. It was part of the Lebanese governments
announcements.
Do you know that the Israeli justice
minister said everybody who stays behind after Israel's "humanitarian"
warnings is a terrorist?
Cite?
Do you know that an Israeli general vowed to
set Lebanon back 20 years, and another said that for every Katyusha
fired, they would destroy 10 apartment buildings (Oh, I'm sorry, I mean
"Hezbollah command bunkers")?
Well, at least you admit that you distort the quotes.
Do you know the Yesha Rabbinical Council
has proclaimed that there is no such thing as an innocent civilian?
Cite?
Do
you know what those "humanitarian" leaflets Israel is dropping actually
say?
Do you?
"each expansion of Hizbollah terrorist operations will lead to a harsh
and powerful response and its painful response will not be confined to
Hassan's gang of criminals".
So much for "not targeting civilians."
They are asking civilians to leave. Targeting civilians is the
Hezbollah strategy.
That
is the report from Jan Egeland, the emergency relief coordinator for
the UN. He says it is impossible for help to reach the wounded and
those buried in rubble, because Israeli air strikes have blown up all
the bridges and roads. Considering how often (almost always) Israel
misses Hizbollah targets and hits civilian ones,
Funny, Hezbollah targets are almost always civilians except when
Israel defends itself.
This is a lie.
How are they aiming those rockets?
It is interesting that the majority of Hezbollah's
victims have been Israeli soldiers, not civilians, whereas the majority
of Israel's victims, even if you accept the IDF's inflated body counts
for Hezbollah, have been civilians.
If you consider Hezbollah civilians, sure. Other than that this seems
like yet another complaint that the Arabs are not better at killing
Israelis. Hezbollah sends rockets into Israel, rockets they can't aim,
rockets aimed at civilians. You seem upset that those rockets are not
better at killing Jews.
It's only if you believe the
propaganda that apartment buildings are "Hezbollah command bunkers"
that you can believe israel is not targeting civilians.
Speaking of propaganda what is your view of Reuters doctoring photos?
Hezbollah prefers to attack civilians. I wonder
why it is acceptable to kill Israeli civilians but not Lebanese?
Here you go with your inevitable "I guess it's okay to kill Jews"
strawman. No, it is *not* okay to kill civilians, Jews or otherwise,
Just fire inaccurate rockets at them. You certainly ignore how
Hezbollah has been doing that for years.
[snip]
one might think that
Israeli fire is being guided by US satellites and US military GPS.
Donıt be surprised at US complicity. Why would the puppet be any less
evil than the puppet master?
And what does that say about Iran?
It says that Iran is no more or less guilty than America, in fact, far
less so.
Hezbollah was supposed to disarm when Israel withdrew from Lebanon,
instead Iran has built them up. How is that not worse?
[snip]
Who are the ³enemies of the Jewish state²?
They are the Palestinians whose land has been stolen by the Jewish
state,
Israel gave back Gaza and withdrew from Lebanon. Why did Hezbollah
step up their attacks?
Despite the alleged withdrawals,
Alleged?
Israel continued to launch military
attacks and kidnappings in Gaza,
During the "cease fire" hundreds of rockets were fired from Gaza into
Israel. If you continually ignore the violence from the Palestinians
then Israel will seem wrong.
and carried out car bombings and
assasinations in Lebanon and violated Lebanese air space on an regular
basis.
Again you pretend Hezbollah was not attacking Israel.
In Gaza, they severely restricted food, fuel and medical
supplies and bombed the only power plant, inducing severe privation in
an already hard-pressed populace; dropped bombs and fired artillery
barrages at civilian targets, killing over 140 people including a
family picnicking on a beach; kidnaped Palestinains, some associated
with Hamas, many not; sent their jets flying low to the ground every
single night to deliver sonic booms in an act of psychological
terrorism against the entire populace, and all this because they
elected leaders the Israelis didn't like. You think all of this abuse,
not to mention Israel's continued barbaric and oppressive occupation of
the West Bank, may have had something to do with the kidnapping of an
Israeli soldier who, unlike a family of 9 picnicking on a beach, was a
legitimate military traget?
Again you pretend that Hamas was not attacking Israel and was not
still dedicated to destroying Israel.
whose homes and olive groves have been destroyed by the Jewish
state, whose children have been shot down in the streets by the Jewish
state, whose women have been abused by the Jewish state.
The Palestinians women are far more abused by their society, which
requires them to cover up their bodies and kills them if they
"dishonor" their families than they have been abused by the Israelis.
What a load of racist horsehit. You really are one ignorant
*****. Have you ever seen photos of Palestinian women, or for
that matter, Lebanese? Some of them wear traditional Arab or Muslim
dress, but most wear *Western* clothing, including bikinis, halter
tops, and jeans. Lebanon is a secular, Western democracy, not a Muslim
theocracy.
Lebanon has many different cultures. I referred to *Palestinian*.
Hezbollah is a *Shiite* group and pushed Shira.
Funny how most Palestinian women don't seem to think the
murder of their family members, destruction of their homes and farms,
seizure of their land, rockets, bombs, artillery barrages, withholding
of food and medicine, curfews, roadbloacks, sonic booms and all the
other minor and major harrassments the Israelis have inflicted on these
people every day of their lives for years is quite so horrible as
having to wear the hijab.
And suffer honor killings.
Now let's talk about how Orthodox Jewish women are required to dress.
By law? Are they killed if they do it wrong?
In what country of the Middle East, for example, do you think gay
people have civil rights?
In which part of the West Bank does a Palestinian enjoy *any* rights,
including the right to exist?
Then negotiate peace. At each step along the way from 1900 on the
Arabs have chosen violence.
They are
Palestinians who have been walled off into ghettos, who cannot reach
their farm lands or medical care or schools, who cannot drive on roads
through Palestine that have been constructed for Israelis only.
That couldn't have anything to do with the 60 year long Palestinian
terrorist campaign could it? Do you think it is possible for the
Palestinians to ever take responsibility for their own actions?
Do you think the terrorist campaign might have something to do with
Israel's theft of their land, and the brutality it has inflicted on
them for 60 years? Is it possible for Israel to take responsibility for
its actions?
So when I say that Israel's right to exist is in question, I hope
people don't call that a lie. Your position is that the Jews have to
leave. Never mind that they have been there longer than the Arabs.
Never mind that in 1948 there was an exchange of about 500,000 people
from each side. Never mind that Arabs have had cultural and legal
discrimination against Jews for centuries.
They
are Palestinians whose ancient towns have been invaded by militant
Zionist ³settlers² under the protection of the Israeli army
As opposed to the more ancient Jewish towns that have been destroyed
by the Arabs, destroyed before Israel even existed. But attacks on
Jews don't seem to count.
Attacks on tombs are not the moral equivalent of the ethnic cleansing
of an entire population,
Actually I mean riots and attacks long before that. There are many
long time Jewish towns that were destroyed 1900-1948.
but I guess you are another racist sociopath
who thinks "the lives of a million Arabs isn't worth one Jewish
fingernail."
I am not the one using bigotry here. You dislike Jews because you
dislike their religion. For some reason you ignore the Arab religious
claims.
who beat
and persecute the Palestinians and drive them out of their towns. They
are Palestinians who cannot allow their children outside their homes
because they will be murdered by Israeli ³settlers.²
They seem to allow them out when they have bombs strapped to them.
So you have no problem with settlers attacking Palestinian kids.
I have no problem with attacking people who are trying to blow you up.
Not all attacks from Israel are right or justified. But clearly the
*Palestinians* hate the Jews more than they like their kids.
If the Palestinians give up violence the war is over. If Israel gives
up violence Israel is over.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
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| User: "Sean C" |
|
| Title: Re: The Shame of Being An American |
15 Aug 2006 05:52:57 PM |
|
|
In article <fal1e2pt2r6m7eg6m3npjl16g5ae5huurp@4ax.com>, Matt
Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
What is gross, disgusting and frankly racist is the idea that it is
justifiable to destroy an entire country, ethnically cleanse 750,000
innocent people and murder hundreds of innocent civilians over the
capture of two Israeli soldiers.
How about over the continual bombardment from Lebanon? How about the
continual armed actions by Hezbollah, a part of the Lebanese
government, directed to destroying Israel?
To argue that the Lebanese government is somehow responsible for or in
league with Hezbollah because Hezbollah has two MPs makes as much
sense as saying the British government is responsible for the IRA
because the IRA's political wing has MPs in parliament.
If you deliberately close
your eyes to the issues that only blinds you, it does not make them go
away. Israel withdrew from Lebanon 6 years ago, Hezbollah treated that
as a weakness by Israel, not as a step towards peace.
I got a good feeling Hezbollah is going to consider the trouncing it
gave the IDF a "sign of weakness" as well, albeit one that cost
thousands of lives. The take home lesson will be well learned by
militants everywhere. Sometimes the illusion of military superiority is
a nice thing to maintain. There's a reason Iran is sabre-rattling at
the US and Israel, and will be even more inclined to do so in the
future. Can you guess what that is?
Israel never stopped intervening in Lebanon, even after its withdrawal.
That is the point you are blind to. They carried out car bombings and
assassinations, which are all acts of terrorism against a sovereign
state.
Israel has
tried to minimize civilian casualties, Hezbollah has tried to maximize
them, both Lebanese and Israeli.It seems that Israel is wrong if it
warns people and wrong if it does not.
*****. Israel has "minimized" civilian casualties by attacking power
plants, ports, grain silos, roads, bridges, schools and hospitals,
Hospitals used as military HQ. Please show that they deliberately
targeted schools not being used by Hezbollah as a military target.
Please prove that any of the civilian targets were being used as
military headquarters. The IDF's claims are not good enough.
Hezbollah would be insane to use a hospital to store its weapons or as
a headquarters. They have spent years building bunkers, caching weapons
in total secrecy and moving their military facilities underground for
a reason, and giving the Israelis' something as big and above ground as
a hospital to shoot at seems rather stupid if the goal is to prevent
weapons from being destroyed or to protect their fighters from
bombardemnt. Israel simply targeted everything it could find that was
remotely connected to Hezbollah and a helluva lot of buildings and
people that weren't. I am still waiting for evidence that those
bridges, ports, power plants. grain silos and even an historic
lighthouse were military sites linked to Hezbollah. Not to mention the
thousands of apartment buildings and homes destroyed.
and
cutting off the whole of South Lebanon from proper access to food,
medicine and supplies.
Cutting off a dug in enemy from re-supply. And they asked civilians to
leave so Israel could fight. You call that request ethnic cleansing,
but you would object if they did not do it.
Cutting off the civilian population from resupply. And they didn't
request that people leave; they told them they would be targeted if
they stayed and also might be targeted if they took their cars or
travelled on roads. Israel made it clear it considered anybody that
stayed behind to be a terrorist and thus a legitimate traget, and a
bunch of rabbis lent their support for this notion.
No one believes this pathetic, self-serving
***** anymore. As for the idea that Israel is somehow being
humanitarian by warning people to leave before they attack and kill
them, this is a particulary perverse and despicable lie. "Leave or
we'll kill you" is not humanitarianism, it's ethnic cleansing.
Nonsense. If they wanted to do that they could have done it before and
elsewhere. OTOH ethnic cleansing is the *declared goal* of Hezbollah.
I guess killing the Jews is not as bad.
"Ethnic cleansing" is using threats and attacks as a means of
encouraging a given population to leave a particular area. It doesn't
require mass genocide to accomplish, just enough terror to convince
people to go.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing
Israel
has no right to tell 25 percent of the population of Lebanon they have
to leave their homes.
They have a right to defend themselves from rocket attacks. Or do you
think that Jews don't have the right of self-defense?
Except those rocket attacks didn't begin in earnest until they attacked
Lebanon, and none of the death and destruction they wrought there did a
damn thing to deter the attacks, but only encouraged them. There were
only a few minor incidents prior to this, and these were in response to
Israeli car bombings. Hezbollah has emerged politically stronger and
more popular everywhere. Israel has a right to self-defense, but you
and Israel are dead wrong if you think slaughtering innocent civilians
and leveling an entire country is the best way to defend Israel. Maybe
if Israel had tried to foster closer ties with its Arab neighbors and
tried to encourage the democratic process in Lebanon and stayed the
***** out of Lebanon, Hezbollah's stated raison d'etre would disappear
and with it, Hezbollah's support.
The only acceptable option, I
assume, is to accept the daily rocket attacks. Hezbollah hides its
rockets among civilians and aims them at civilians and that somehow is
just fine.
The acceptable and civilized option was to do a prisoner exchange,
Really? The civilized response is to give in to terrorists?
Yes, if the alternative is worse, which in this case, it clearly was.
Peace can only be acheived by agreements among all combatants,
including terrorists. It's a lesson the British spent centuries
learning in Ireland, how long until Israel gets the memo? Of course,
this assumes the Israeli invasion, whoich had been planned for years in
advance and which had the approval of the US, was really all about
getting two soldiers back and not about something else.
which would have saved hundreds of lives, including israelis, and an
entire country, and then stay the ***** out of Lebanon:
They withdrew 6 years ago. Hezbollah was supposed to disarm, not build
up more capabilities.
And had they disarmed, there would have been no one to resist an
Israeli invasion. Demanding Hezbollah disarm while Israel retains its
military power is a non-starter. Hezbollah rememembers what happened
when Saddam disarmed, and they are not stupid enough to repeat that
mistake. Israel will have to make peace with an armed party, as is
often the case in war.
no more car
bombings or assasinations,
You mean the kind of thing that Syria does, right?
Are Israel's car bombs less deadly than Syria's?
no more daily violations of Lebanese air
space,
How about Lebanon actually stop Hezbollah from attacking Israel?
How about you explain how they are supposed to do that with their
pipsqueak army when the IDF cannot defeat Hezbollah? I know this is
hard to understand, but the best way to defeat Hezbollah is for Lebanon
to become a strong democracy with a strong army which has strong and
mutually beneficial ties with Israel. Hezbollah exists for a reason,
and that reason is Israel's previous invasion of lebanon, and the
threat, now proven to be real, of their doing so again. Israel has
destroyed any chance of Hezbollah disbanding its military wing for the
foreseeable future.
no more meddling in their politics. No more *****. But this
isn't about two Israeli soldiers, it's about yet another attempt by
Israel to blow some minor provocation
Another? Like the 67 War? Or the 73 War?
Like the previous Lebanon war and this Lebanon war.
into an excuse for all out war so
they can seize territory
Territory they withdrew from 6 years ago.
After they were driven out by Hezbollah. They are going to withdraw
this time for the same reason.
they believe some Bronze Age deity has willed
to them in perpetuity.
And so your religious bigotry comes into play. Somehow the Jews have
fewer rights because they are religious. (Let us ignore the religious
motivations behind Hezbollah.)
They don't have the right to a piece of land because of their religion,
and I consider such a claim to be ludicrous, as does any thinking
person. "Bigotry" has nothing to do with it. Let's ignore that the
"Holy Land" belongs to Islam according to *their* religion.
Do you know that the Lebanese government counts Hezbollah soldiers as
civilians in their death counts?
Do you have proof of that?
It was what they said. It was part of the Lebanese governments
announcements.
You're just repeating yourself. Where's the proof?
Do you know that the Israeli justice
minister said everybody who stays behind after Israel's "humanitarian"
warnings is a terrorist?
Cite?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/07/28/wmid28.x
ml
"What we should do in southern Lebanon is employ huge firepower before
a ground force goes in," Mr Ramon said at a security cabinet meeting
headed by Ehud Olmert, the prime minister. "Everyone in southern
Lebanon is a terrorist and is connected to Hizbollah. Our great
advantage vis-a-vis Hizbollah is our firepower, not in face-to-face
combat."
The country's biggest-selling paper, Yedioth Ahronoth, said the army
had raised the threshold of response to Katyusha rockets.
"In other words: a village from which rockets are fired at Israel will
simply be destroyed by fire," it said.
"This decision should have been made and executed after the first
Katyusha. But better late than never."
Do you know that an Israeli general vowed to
set Lebanon back 20 years, and another said that for every Katyusha
fired, they would destroy 10 apartment buildings (Oh, I'm sorry, I mean
"Hezbollah command bunkers")?
Well, at least you admit that you distort the quotes.
I'm being sarcastic. He said "10 apartment buildings."
Do you know the Yesha Rabbinical Council
has proclaimed that there is no such thing as an innocent civilian?
Cite?
http://www.israelnn.com/news.php3?id=107113
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1150885980653&pagename=JPost%
2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/1,7340,L-3283720,00.html
Do
you know what those "humanitarian" leaflets Israel is dropping actually
say?
Do you?
I just quoted one.
"each expansion of Hizbollah terrorist operations will lead to a harsh
and powerful response and its painful response will not be confined to
Hassan's gang of criminals".
So much for "not targeting civilians."
They are asking civilians to leave. Targeting civilians is the
Hezbollah strategy.
Whatever you say.
That
is the report from Jan Egeland, the emergency relief coordinator for
the UN. He says it is impossible for help to reach the wounded and
those buried in rubble, because Israeli air strikes have blown up all
the bridges and roads. Considering how often (almost always) Israel
misses Hizbollah targets and hits civilian ones,
Funny, Hezbollah targets are almost always civilians except when
Israel defends itself.
This is a lie.
How are they aiming those rockets?
It is interesting that the majority of Hezbollah's
victims have been Israeli soldiers, not civilians, whereas the majority
of Israel's victims, even if you accept the IDF's inflated body counts
for Hezbollah, have been civilians.
If you consider Hezbollah civilians, sure.
Even you don't believe this *****. Were the Christians and Sunnis
attacked and killed throughout Lebanon members of Hezbollah? Get a
grip.
Other than that this seems
like yet another complaint that the Arabs are not better at killing
Israelis. Hezbollah sends rockets into Israel, rockets they can't aim,
rockets aimed at civilians. You seem upset that those rockets are not
better at killing Jews.
You seem incapable of any argument other than "you just want to kill
Jews." I know in the black and white world of people like you and
George Bush there are only two kinds of people, those who are with us
and those who are against us," but at least some of the rest of the
human race actually cares about both sides in the conflict. Israel's
actions didn't deter the rockets, it encouraged them. Even a knee-jerk
Israeli apologist like yourself has to recognize that Israel's response
was counter-productive. If you actually give a ***** about Jews, and are
not just looking for an excuse to vent hatred against Arabs, then you
have to consider this fact and act accordingly.
It's only if you believe the
propaganda that apartment buildings are "Hezbollah command bunkers"
that you can believe israel is not targeting civilians.
Speaking of propaganda what is your view of Reuters doctoring photos?
That any doctored photos, like those deliberately faked documents
regarding Bush's military service, will be used to dismiss every
legitimate video and photo out of this war and be used as a smokescreen
for Israeli atrocities.
Hezbollah prefers to attack civilians. I wonder
why it is acceptable to kill Israeli civilians but not Lebanese?
Here you go with your inevitable "I guess it's okay to kill Jews"
strawman. No, it is *not* okay to kill civilians, Jews or otherwise,
Just fire inaccurate rockets at them. You certainly ignore how
Hezbollah has been doing that for years.
Show me where I condoned Hezbollah's rocket attacks.
And what does that say about Iran?
It says that Iran is no more or less guilty than America, in fact, far
less so.
Hezbollah was supposed to disarm when Israel withdrew from Lebanon,
instead Iran has built them up. How is that not worse?
Are you saying that Hezbollah has less of a right to defend itself than
Israel does? israel wasn't supposed to be violating Lebanon's airspace
or planting car bombs, either.
Israel gave back Gaza and withdrew from Lebanon. Why did Hezbollah
step up their attacks?
Despite the alleged withdrawals,
Alleged?
Israel withdrew its settlers from Gaza, but continued to harass and
attack the people with its military.
Israel continued to launch military
attacks and kidnappings in Gaza,
During the "cease fire" hundreds of rockets were fired from Gaza into
Israel. If you continually ignore the violence from the Palestinians
then Israel will seem wrong.
If you continue to ignore the violence and oppression from Israel that
provoked those attacks Israel will never seem wrong.
and carried out car bombings and
assasinations in Lebanon and violated Lebanese air space on an regular
basis.
Again you pretend Hezbollah was not attacking Israel.
Again you pretend that car bombings in a sovereign state are not an act
of terrorist aggression.
In Gaza, they severely restricted food, fuel and medical
supplies and bombed the only power plant, inducing severe privation in
an already hard-pressed populace; dropped bombs and fired artillery
barrages at civilian targets, killing over 140 people including a
family picnicking on a beach; kidnaped Palestinains, some associated
with Hamas, many not; sent their jets flying low to the ground every
single night to deliver sonic booms in an act of psychological
terrorism against the entire populace, and all this because they
elected leaders the Israelis didn't like. You think all of this abuse,
not to mention Israel's continued barbaric and oppressive occupation of
the West Bank, may have had something to do with the kidnapping of an
Israeli soldier who, unlike a family of 9 picnicking on a beach, was a
legitimate military traget?
Again you pretend that Hamas was not attacking Israel and was not
still dedicated to destroying Israel.
Are you denying that Israel was determined to destroy Hezbollah?
Hezbollah is in no poisition to destroy israel, though Israel can
certainly destroy Lebanon.
What a load of racist horsehit. You really are one ignorant
*****. Have you ever seen photos of Palestinian women, or for
that matter, Lebanese? Some of them wear traditional Arab or Muslim
dress, but most wear *Western* clothing, including bikinis, halter
tops, and jeans. Lebanon is a secular, Western democracy, not a Muslim
theocracy.
Lebanon has many different cultures. I referred to *Palestinian*.
Hezbollah is a *Shiite* group and pushed Shira.
And I pointed out that Palestinian women, even more than Shia women,
wear Western clothes, as do most people in the region.
Funny how most Palestinian women don't seem to think the
murder of their family members, destruction of their homes and farms,
seizure of their land, rockets, bombs, artillery barrages, withholding
of food and medicine, curfews, roadbloacks, sonic booms and all the
other minor and major harrassments the Israelis have inflicted on these
people every day of their lives for years is quite so horrible as
having to wear the hijab.
And suffer honor killings.
You have statistics on how many honor killings occur each year in the
West Bank? Let's see them. Spousal abuse and murder is epidemic in
every culture on the planet, including the US.
Now let's talk about how Orthodox Jewish women are required to dress.
By law? Are they killed if they do it wrong?
By Jewish law, yes. I have no idea if any are abused or killed for
violating that dress code or not.
In what country of the Middle East, for example, do you think gay
people have civil rights?
In which part of the West Bank does a Palestinian enjoy *any* rights,
including the right to exist?
Then negotiate peace. At each step along the way from 1900 on the
Arabs have chosen violence.
That's nonsense. The Arabs and the Palestinians have made many peace
proposals that have been rejected by the Israelis.
Do you think the terrorist campaign might have something to do with
Israel's theft of their land, and the brutality it has inflicted on
them for 60 years? Is it possible for Israel to take responsibility for
its actions?
So when I say that Israel's right to exist is in question, I hope
people don't call that a lie. Your position is that the Jews have to
leave.
My poisition is no such thing. Why don't you read what I wrote, instead
of inventing things? I said, specifically, I support israel's right to
exist within the '67 borders. Anything beyond that Israel should have
to vacate immediately or lose world support.
There is a world of difference between recognizing that the creation of
the state of Israel was an injustice against the Palestinians and
believing Israel should be destroyed to correct that injustice.
Never mind that they have been there longer than the Arabs.
Never mind that in 1948 there was an exchange of about 500,000 people
from each side. Never mind that Arabs have had cultural and legal
discrimination against Jews for centuries.
Nevr mind that the Palestinians have been there longer than anyone, and
are not "Arabs" in anything but the linguistic sense. Never mind that
"we got here first" isn't much of an argument after 2,000 years anyway.
Never mind that the majoirty of the population was Palestinian right up
to the time of the parititon, and those b people, unlike the European
interlopers, had a continuous connection with the land spanning
centuries. Apperently, you think a 2,000 year old claim to land is more
compelling than a contemporary one. And never mind that cultural and
legal discrimination still exists against Arabs in Israel.
Attacks on tombs are not the moral equivalent of the ethnic cleansing
of an entire population,
Actually I mean riots and attacks long before that. There are many
long time Jewish towns that were destroyed 1900-1948.
Cites?
but I guess you are another racist sociopath
who thinks "the lives of a million Arabs isn't worth one Jewish
fingernail."
I am not the one using bigotry here. You dislike Jews because you
dislike their religion. For some reason you ignore the Arab religious
claims.
I don't dislike Jews or Arabs for any reason, but I dislike organized
religion of any kind, including Islam and Judaism. I don't dislike
anyone's religion enough to want to see them killed or driven from
their homes. I'm sorry you don't feel the same.
So you have no problem with settlers attacking Palestinian kids.
I have no problem with attacking people who are trying to blow you up.
I don't know about you, but if I was a settler, I wouldn't attack
schoolkids with baseball bats if I thought they might be capable of
blowing me up. If I was an Israeli soldier, I wouldn't walk up next to
a little girl and empty my magazine into her if I really thought she
might have a bomb and could kill me.
Not all attacks from Israel are right or justified. But clearly the
*Palestinians* hate the Jews more than they like their kids.
And that is an incredibly bigoted think to say. You just can't see
these people as human, can you? By similar logic, you could argue
Israel cares more about killing Lebanese than it does its own people,
as it just sacrificed over 180 of them to get back at Lebanon for a
crime the Lebanese didn't commit, while making the people who did
commit the crime stronger. I know the morally-impaired have difficulty
seeing the problem here, but surely there is someone in Israel smart
enough to do the math and draw the necessary conclusions.
If the Palestinians give up violence the war is over. If Israel gives
up violence Israel is over.
That's a nice little slogan. I'm sure Rachel Corrie's family would
appreciate the sentiment. The simple fact is Israel will continue to
steal land off the Palestinians as they always have, regardless of
whether there is a violent resistance or not. In the end it is
possible, if not probable, that more land would have been seized if the
Occupied Territories were a more desirable place to live (ie, no
violence from the natives) and Israeli resources weren't tied down
dealing with the Palestinian resistance. If Israel wants peace it will
end the occupation. Now, completely, and for good. There will continue
to be violence and bloodshed on both sides after this, as tribal
hatreds die hard, but in the end, the situation will be more peaceful
than it is now, the majority in both countries can get on with their
lives, and maybe in 20 years they'll be as tight as Germany and France
are now.
--Sean C
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: The Shame of Being An American |
23 Jul 2006 05:56:07 PM |
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Sean C wrote:
The Shame of Being
An American
By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS
http://counterpunch.org/Roberts07222006.html
<excerpt>
Do you know that Israel is engaged in ethnic cleansing in southern
Lebanon? Israel has ordered all the villagers to clear out. Israel
Call it whatver you want. Ethnic cleasing, ***** washing, demons chasing
etc.
But bottom is that Hezbollah need to go. PERIOD
And of course we expect you to argue with your usual logic that the
rockets
that Hezbollah sent to Israel were just some birthday party cards.,
and
were not intended to kill human beings
then destroys their homes and murders the fleeing villagers. That way
there is no one to come back and nothing to which to return, making it
easier for Israel to grab the territory, just as Israel has been
stealing Palestine from the Palestinians.
Do you know that one-third of the Lebanese civilians murdered by
Israel=B9s attacks on civilian residential districts are children? That
is the report from Jan Egeland, the emergency relief coordinator for
the UN. He says it is impossible for help to reach the wounded and
those buried in rubble, because Israeli air strikes have blown up all
the bridges and roads. Considering how often (almost always) Israel
misses Hizbollah targets and hits civilian ones, one might think that
Israeli fire is being guided by US satellites and US military GPS.
Don=B9t be surprised at US complicity. Why would the puppet be any less
evil than the puppet master?
Of course, you don=B9t know these things, because the US print and TV
media do not report them.
Because Bush is so proud of himself, you do know that he has blocked
every effort to stop the Israeli slaughter of Lebanese civilians. Bush
has told the UN =B3NO.=B2 Bush has told the European Community =B3NO.=B2=
Bush
has told the pro-American Lebanese prime minister =B3NO.=B2 Twice. Bush
is very proud of his firmness. He is enjoying Israel=B9s rampage and
wishes he could do the same thing in Iraq.
Does it make you a Proud American that =B3your=B2 president gave Israel t=
he
green light to drop bombs on convoys of villagers fleeing from Israeli
shelling, on residential neighborhoods in the capital of Beirut and
throughout Lebanon, on hospitals, on power plants, on food production
and storage, on ports, on civilian airports, on bridges, on roads, on
every piece of infrastructure on which civilized life depends? Are you
a Proud American? Or are you an Israeli puppet?
On July 20, =B3your=B2 House of Representatives voted 410-8 in favor of
Israel=B9s massive war crimes in Lebanon. Not content with making every
American complicit in war crimes, =B3your=B2 House of Representatives,
according to the Associated Press, also =B3condemns enemies of the Jewish
state.=B2
Who are the =B3enemies of the Jewish state=B2?
They are the Palestinians whose land has been stolen by the Jewish
state, whose homes and olive groves have been destroyed by the Jewish
state, whose children have been shot down in the streets by the Jewish
state, whose women have been abused by the Jewish state. They are
Palestinians who have been walled off into ghettos, who cannot reach
their farm lands or medical care or schools, who cannot drive on roads
through Palestine that have been constructed for Israelis only. They
are Palestinians whose ancient towns have been invaded by militant
Zionist =B3settlers=B2 under the protection of the Israeli army who beat
and persecute the Palestinians and drive them out of their towns. They
are Palestinians who cannot allow their children outside their homes
because they will be murdered by Israeli =B3settlers.=B2
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: The Shame of Being An American |
23 Jul 2006 06:04:00 PM |
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bravery is clarity, I can see that, but why the big fucking show for
the stupid rubes of the lord?? its all about money, and very few are
as stupid as you, your brain is mush and leader is a joke
and the followers of the LORD, why do they need such a tiddlywinks kind
of reality to even function? Hmmmm?
all this distraction is to deploy mind control here, chimpson
wake up and quit making excuses for the scum of bush
b
codebreaker@bigsecret.com wrote:
Sean C wrote:
The Shame of Being
An American
By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS
http://counterpunch.org/Roberts07222006.html
<excerpt>
Do you know that Israel is engaged in ethnic cleansing in southern
Lebanon? Israel has ordered all the villagers to clear out. Israel
Call it whatver you want. Ethnic cleasing, ***** washing, demons chasing
etc.
But bottom is that Hezbollah need to go. PERIOD
And of course we expect you to argue with your usual logic that the
rockets
that Hezbollah sent to Israel were just some birthday party cards.,
and
were not intended to kill human beings
then destroys their homes and murders the fleeing villagers. That way
there is no one to come back and nothing to which to return, making it
easier for Israel to grab the territory, just as Israel has been
stealing Palestine from the Palestinians.
Do you know that one-third of the Lebanese civilians murdered by
Israel=B9s attacks on civilian residential districts are children? That
is the report from Jan Egeland, the emergency relief coordinator for
the UN. He says it is impossible for help to reach the wounded and
those buried in rubble, because Israeli air strikes have blown up all
the bridges and roads. Considering how often (almost always) Israel
misses Hizbollah targets and hits civilian ones, one might think that
Israeli fire is being guided by US satellites and US military GPS.
Don=B9t be surprised at US complicity. Why would the puppet be any less
evil than the puppet master?
Of course, you don=B9t know these things, because the US print and TV
media do not report them.
Because Bush is so proud of himself, you do know that he has blocked
every effort to stop the Israeli slaughter of Lebanese civilians. Bush
has told the UN =B3NO.=B2 Bush has told the European Community =B3NO.=
=B2 Bush
has told the pro-American Lebanese prime minister =B3NO.=B2 Twice. Bu=
sh
is very proud of his firmness. He is enjoying Israel=B9s rampage and
wishes he could do the same thing in Iraq.
Does it make you a Proud American that =B3your=B2 president gave Israel=
the
green light to drop bombs on convoys of villagers fleeing from Israeli
shelling, on residential neighborhoods in the capital of Beirut and
throughout Lebanon, on hospitals, on power plants, on food production
and storage, on ports, on civilian airports, on bridges, on roads, on
every piece of infrastructure on which civilized life depends? Are you
a Proud American? Or are you an Israeli puppet?
On July 20, =B3your=B2 House of Representatives voted 410-8 in favor of
Israel=B9s massive war crimes in Lebanon. Not content with making every
American complicit in war crimes, =B3your=B2 House of Representatives,
according to the Associated Press, also =B3condemns enemies of the Jewi=
sh
state.=B2
Who are the =B3enemies of the Jewish state=B2?
They are the Palestinians whose land has been stolen by the Jewish
state, whose homes and olive groves have been destroyed by the Jewish
state, whose children have been shot down in the streets by the Jewish
state, whose women have been abused by the Jewish state. They are
Palestinians who have been walled off into ghettos, who cannot reach
their farm lands or medical care or schools, who cannot drive on roads
through Palestine that have been constructed for Israelis only. They
are Palestinians whose ancient towns have been invaded by militant
Zionist =B3settlers=B2 under the protection of the Israeli army who beat
and persecute the Palestinians and drive them out of their towns. They
are Palestinians who cannot allow their children outside their homes
because they will be murdered by Israeli =B3settlers.=B2
.
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| User: "Billy" |
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| Title: Re: The Shame of Being An American |
23 Jul 2006 07:03:25 PM |
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<luxefaire@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1153695840.281843.266520@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
bravery is clarity, I can see that, but why the big fucking show for
the stupid rubes of the lord?? its all about money, and very few are
as stupid as you, your brain is mush and leader is a joke
and the followers of the LORD, why do they need such a tiddlywinks kind
of reality to even function? Hmmmm?
all this distraction is to deploy mind control here, chimpson
wake up and quit making excuses for the scum of bush
2004, April 18 Kosovo, 2 American women who were part of the U.N.
Peacekeeping Force were shot and killed. Jordanian /Hezballah
2001, May 9 Israel - West Bank, 2 Killed (1 American); 13 year olds stoned
to death in a cave Islamic Jihad and Hezballah -Palestine
1996, June 25 Saudi Arabia - Khobar Towers , 19 Killed (all Americans); 515
Injured; Truck bomb Saudi Hezballah
1988, February 17 Lebanon, 1 Killed (US military officer); Kidnapped from
his car and killed Hezballah
1985, June 14 Lebanon - TWA airliner, 1 Killed (US Sailor); Tortured and
shot on hijacked plane Hezballah
1984, December 4 Iran - Kuwait airlines, 2 Killed (Americans) on hijacked
plane Hezballah
1984, September 20 Lebanon - Auka; US Embassy, 24 Killed (2 American
Soldiers); 21 Wounded; Suicide truck bomb attack Hezballah
1984, April 12 Spain, Torrejon, 18 U.S. Servicemen Killed; 83 injured; Bomb
explosion at a restaurant near USAF Base Hezballah
1984, March 16 Lebanon - US Embassy, 1 Killed (American diplomat); Kidnapped
to Iran and killed Hezballah
1983, October 23 Lebanon - US Marine Barracks, 241 Killed (US servicemen);
81 Injured; Truck bomb Hezballah
1983, April 18 Lebanon - US Embassy, 63 Killed (17 Americans); 120 Wounded;
Car bomb Hezaballah
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: The Shame of Being An American |
24 Jul 2006 08:16:28 PM |
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wrote:
bravery is clarity, I can see that, but why the big fucking show for
the stupid rubes of the lord?? its all about money, and very few are
as stupid as you, your brain is mush and leader is a joke
and the followers of the LORD, why do they need such a tiddlywinks kind
of reality to even function? Hmmmm?
all this distraction is to deploy mind control here, chimpson
wake up and quit making excuses for the scum of bush
EVOLUTION TOO is about mind control. I prefer a mind controlled for
God
than the ONE controlled for Satan
b
codebreaker@bigsecret.com wrote:
Sean C wrote:
The Shame of Being
An American
By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS
http://counterpunch.org/Roberts07222006.html
<excerpt>
Do you know that Israel is engaged in ethnic cleansing in southern
Lebanon? Israel has ordered all the villagers to clear out. Israel
Call it whatver you want. Ethnic cleasing, ***** washing, demons chasing
etc.
But bottom is that Hezbollah need to go. PERIOD
And of course we expect you to argue with your usual logic that the
rockets
that Hezbollah sent to Israel were just some birthday party cards.,
and
were not intended to kill human beings
then destroys their homes and murders the fleeing villagers. That way
there is no one to come back and nothing to which to return, making it
easier for Israel to grab the territory, just as Israel has been
stealing Palestine from the Palestinians.
Do you know that one-third of the Lebanese civilians murdered by
Israel=B9s attacks on civilian residential districts are children? T=
hat
is the report from Jan Egeland, the emergency relief coordinator for
the UN. He says it is impossible for help to reach the wounded and
those buried in rubble, because Israeli air strikes have blown up all
the bridges and roads. Considering how often (almost always) Israel
misses Hizbollah targets and hits civilian ones, one might think that
Israeli fire is being guided by US satellites and US military GPS.
Don=B9t be surprised at US complicity. Why would the puppet be any l=
ess
evil than the puppet master?
Of course, you don=B9t know these things, because the US print and TV
media do not report them.
Because Bush is so proud of himself, you do know that he has blocked
every effort to stop the Israeli slaughter of Lebanese civilians. Bu=
sh
has told the UN =B3NO.=B2 Bush has told the European Community =B3NO=
..=B2 Bush
has told the pro-American Lebanese prime minister =B3NO.=B2 Twice. =
Bush
is very proud of his firmness. He is enjoying Israel=B9s rampage and
wishes he could do the same thing in Iraq.
Does it make you a Proud American that =B3your=B2 president gave Isra=
el the
green light to drop bombs on convoys of villagers fleeing from Israeli
shelling, on residential neighborhoods in the capital of Beirut and
throughout Lebanon, on hospitals, on power plants, on food production
and storage, on ports, on civilian airports, on bridges, on roads, on
every piece of infrastructure on which civilized life depends? Are y=
ou
a Proud American? Or are you an Israeli puppet?
On July 20, =B3your=B2 House of Representatives voted 410-8 in favor =
of
Israel=B9s massive war crimes in Lebanon. Not content with making ev=
ery
American complicit in war crimes, =B3your=B2 House of Representatives,
according to the Associated Press, also =B3condemns enemies of the Je=
wish
state.=B2
Who are the =B3enemies of the Jewish state=B2?
They are the Palestinians whose land has been stolen by the Jewish
state, whose homes and olive groves have been destroyed by the Jewish
state, whose children have been shot down in the streets by the Jewish
state, whose women have been abused by the Jewish state. They are
Palestinians who have been walled off into ghettos, who cannot reach
their farm lands or medical care or schools, who cannot drive on roads
through Palestine that have been constructed for Israelis only. They
are Palestinians whose ancient towns have been invaded by militant
Zionist =B3settlers=B2 under the protection of the Israeli army who b=
eat
and persecute the Palestinians and drive them out of their towns. Th=
ey
are Palestinians who cannot allow their children outside their homes
because they will be murdered by Israeli =B3settlers.=B2
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| User: "Fester" |
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| Title: Re: The Shame of Being An American |
23 Jul 2006 03:06:30 PM |
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Sean C wrote:
The Shame of Being
An American
There are doors to both the North and the South. Pick one!
--
<^}})<
/\/\
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| User: "wcb" |
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| Title: Re: The Shame of Being An American |
23 Jul 2006 07:12:24 PM |
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Fester wrote:
Sean C wrote:
The Shame of Being
An American
There are doors to both the North and the South. Pick one!
Open that door and push the far right America
destroyers out. We need a purge.
Why did San Francisco get all the homos and
and Alabama got all the right wingers?
San Francisco got first choice.
--
Real Christians handle snakes.
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "Sean C" |
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| Title: Re: The Shame of Being An American |
23 Jul 2006 04:59:47 PM |
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In article <aFQwg.11936$4c7.8301@tornado.southeast.rr.com>, Fester
<not@home.com> wrote:
Sean C wrote:
The Shame of Being
An American
There are doors to both the North and the South. Pick one!
Not enough doors, Fester. My doors open up to the whole world.
--Sean C
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| User: "Gospel Bretts" |
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| Title: Re: The Shame of Being An American |
23 Jul 2006 05:22:49 PM |
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On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 17:59:47 -0400, Sean C
<redhawk@burnspammersalive.com> wrote:
In article <aFQwg.11936$4c7.8301@tornado.southeast.rr.com>, Fester
<not@home.com> wrote:
Sean C wrote:
The Shame of Being
An American
There are doors to both the North and the South. Pick one!
Not enough doors, Fester. My doors open up to the whole world.
That's good news for you, then, because I doubt you'd be satisfied
with either Canada or Mexico. Whichever door you happen to choose,
though, doesn't matter to us. We only want you to leave, and the
sooner the better.
__________________
Gospel Bretts
a.a. Atheist #2262
Fundy Xian Atheist
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| User: "Sean C" |
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| Title: Re: The Shame of Being An American |
25 Jul 2006 01:02:52 AM |
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In article <lft7c295462de0b923rbm9nmkv40noeuj4@4ax.com>, Gospel Bretts
<Hallelujah@Jesus.Amen> wrote:
On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 17:59:47 -0400, Sean C
<redhawk@burnspammersalive.com> wrote:
In article <aFQwg.11936$4c7.8301@tornado.southeast.rr.com>, Fester
<not@home.com> wrote:
Sean C wrote:
The Shame of Being
An American
There are doors to both the North and the South. Pick one!
Not enough doors, Fester. My doors open up to the whole world.
That's good news for you, then, because I doubt you'd be satisfied
with either Canada or Mexico. Whichever door you happen to choose,
though, doesn't matter to us. We only want you to leave, and the
sooner the better.
This is my country. Any time you think you're man enough to kick me
out, come and give it a go. I'll be waiting for you.
--Sean C
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| User: "Fester" |
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| Title: Re: The Shame of Being An American |
23 Jul 2006 05:06:38 PM |
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Sean C wrote:
In article <aFQwg.11936$4c7.8301@tornado.southeast.rr.com>, Fester
<not@home.com> wrote:
Sean C wrote:
The Shame of Being
An American
There are doors to both the North and the South. Pick one!
Not enough doors, Fester. My doors open up to the whole world.
So's your skull.
--
<^}})<
/\/\
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