| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Sound of Trumpet" |
| Date: |
02 Dec 2006 05:34:32 AM |
| Object: |
The Slow Death Of Non-Believing Europe |
http://www.blogsforbush.com/mt/archives/008306.html
November 30, 2006
Non-Believing Europe
Gene Expression takes note of an European Union survey on religious
beliefs - you can see the graph here.
http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2006/11/post-christian-but-not-secular-europe.php
Some things I found interesting:
In France, there are nearly as many are outright atheists as definitive
believers. Overall, only a bare majority of Europeans surveyed believe
in God. Nearly one in five Europeans are atheists.
Of course, belief in God can mean a lot of things - my bet is that
traditional Christian belief is very much lower than the 52% of
Europeans who profess a belief in God. And that is the crucial thing.
Liberal and leftwing historical revisionists like to present a fairy
tale of how Europe was hopelessly backwards and repressed until the
Renaisance and Enlightenment freed Europe from the shackles of
Christianity, thus producing the Europe which gave us such wonderful
things as socialism, genocide and two World Wars (well, truth be told,
they leave that last bit off - but they are certain that modern Europe
is in every respect better than pre-modern Europe, and they are equally
certain that it was the removal of Christianity which was at the core
of making this wonderful new world). The real facts of the matter are,
of course, that Christianity created European civilization - grafting
on a whole new worldview to the decayed stump of Greco-Roman
civilization which, in turn, led to a massive flowering of distinctly
Christian civilization starting in the 12th century and going right on
until Enlightenment types decided that everyone but them had it all
wrong.
The net result of the continual assault on Christianity starting in the
middle-18th century is the non-Christian Europe we see today. This
Europe, "freed" from the dead hand of Christianity is dying, cowardly
and broke.
Dying: Europeans aren't having children. Without the impetus of belief
in a definitive God who rules the universe, having children just
becomes an expensive nusiance. Most European countries are suffering
net loss in population - save for those countries which continue to
allow mass immigration from Arab nations.
Cowardly: If you don't believe in a life of the world to come, then you
cling extra tightly to this life and your whole purpose is to extract
as much personal pleasure as possible for the least personal cost. This
makes a person a coward.
Broke: Seeing as there is no God - or, at least, no God who actually
does anything positive in the life of men - there's no reason to be
responsible and do your job to the best of your ability. This makes for
Europe's anemic economic growth and all sorts of Central Bank
hocus-pocus to hide the fact that Europe went bankrupt about ten years
ago.
Of course, there still are some genuine Europeans left - people who
live there who are believers in the Christianity which originally built
up Europe. What the big question is: Will these vestigal Europeans be
able to grab the reigns before the Moslems do? Right now, the number of
true Christians in Europe is probably only a bit larger than the number
of Moslems...both are waiting for the current power elite to die off
over the next fifty years...one of them will emerge dominant and will
force Europe into it's mold.
Posted by Mark Noonan at November 30, 2006 05:51 AM
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| User: "JAF" |
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| Title: Re: The Slow Death Of Non-Believing Europe |
02 Dec 2006 05:54:33 AM |
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On 2 Dec 2006 03:34:32 -0800, "Sound of Trumpet"
<sound_of_trumpet@myway.com> wrote:
Christianity created European civilization
Don't talk such cack.
--
JAF
anarchatntlworldfullstopcom
Keep Science Scientific
BCSE http://bcseweb.org.uk
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| User: "Greywolf" |
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| Title: Re: The Slow Death Of Non-Believing Europe |
02 Dec 2006 06:18:01 AM |
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"JAF" <anarchSPAMKILLER@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:rmq2n2d5q3v55g607sv9b0droiecm74nqc@4ax.com...
On 2 Dec 2006 03:34:32 -0800, "Sound of Trumpet"
<sound_of_trumpet@myway.com> wrote:
Christianity created European civilization
Don't talk such cack.
--
JAF
anarchatntlworldfullstopcom
Keep Science Scientific
BCSE http://bcseweb.org.uk
Did someone say 'Christianity' *created* European civilization? What about
those Zeus lovin' *Greeks*? You know, that 'Zeus' who was *just* as
make-believe as Jesus/God is. Didn't *they* help put a little 'civil' in
civilization? But more importantly, isn't coerced belief in an imaginary
deity show a profound display of an ignorant society? What in the world does
a 'civilization' need with a deluded belief in the absurd, the ridiculous,
and the preposterous for? To pretend that *that* is what makes a
civilization a 'civilization'? Let's not forget about the evil and depravity
shown by the 'Church' down through history.
Greywolf
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| User: "ernobe" |
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| Title: Re: The Slow Death Of Non-Believing Europe |
02 Dec 2006 02:47:36 PM |
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Greywolf wrote:
Did someone say 'Christianity' *created* European civilization? What about
those Zeus lovin' *Greeks*? You know, that 'Zeus' who was *just* as
make-believe as Jesus/God is. Didn't *they* help put a little 'civil' in
civilization? But more importantly, isn't coerced belief in an imaginary
deity show a profound display of an ignorant society? What in the world does
a 'civilization' need with a deluded belief in the absurd, the ridiculous,
and the preposterous for?
"What in the world does a 'civilization' need with... for?"? Not sure
what the sentence means, but if you think Chrisitianity calls for such,
you haven't read the Bible yet. Even if you think belief in miracles
is deluded, absurd, ridiculous and preposterous, what is even more
important is what the supposed miracles are trying to accomplish. If
it is something good, that helps people, according to their own wishes,
how can you say that you are being coerced to believe in an imaginary
deity? Not unless you've made a deity of your own desires, and these
run contrary to the ordinary desires of people. In this case, it is
good that you feel coerced, and I'm happy to contribute to your
delusions of coercion. Are there any more delusions that you want to
ascribe to Christianity? Don't forget about the evil and depravity of
the Romans that is still with us because of the Church. LOL!
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: The Slow Death Of Non-Believing Europe |
02 Dec 2006 06:29:32 PM |
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On 2 Dec 2006 12:47:36 -0800, "ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
"What in the world does a 'civilization' need with... for?"? Not sure
what the sentence means, but if you think Chrisitianity calls for such,
you haven't read the Bible yet. Even if you think belief in miracles
is deluded, absurd, ridiculous and preposterous, what is even more
important is what the supposed miracles are trying to accomplish. If
it is something good, that helps people, according to their own wishes,
how can you say that you are being coerced to believe in an imaginary
deity?
If the deity is imaginary, and you're being indoctrinated into belief
in that deity from the time you can say your first few words, you're
being coerced into believing in an imaginary deity. ("Believe or burn
in hell" is coercion.)
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
I cannot conceive of a god who rewards and punishes his creatures
or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves. Neither
can I nor would I want to conceive of an individual that survives
its physical death; let feeble souls, from fear or absurd egotism,
cherish such thoughts. I am satisfied with the mystery of the eter-
nity of life and a glimpse of the marvelous structure of the exist-
ing world, together with the devoted striving to comprehend a
portion, be it ever so tiny, of the Reason that manifests itself in
nature.
- Albert Einstein, as quoted in _Billions and Billions_, Carl Sagan.
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
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| User: "ernobe" |
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| Title: Re: The Slow Death Of Non-Believing Europe |
03 Dec 2006 06:55:09 PM |
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On Dec 2, 6:29 pm, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote:
If the deity is imaginary, and you're being indoctrinated into belief
in that deity from the time you can say your first few words, you're
being coerced into believing in an imaginary deity. ("Believe or burn
in hell" is coercion.)
From the time you can say your first few words you are learning to
reason, to tell the difference between what is unbelievable and what is
believable. Until you can do that, you are by default coerced into
believing whatever they tell you ( good or bad ). What I'm saying is
that unless you leave behind all your preconceived ideas, and examine
the evidence of the Deity impartially, you will continue to behave like
a child all your life ( and that is a long shot from "Believe or burn
in hell" ).
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: The Slow Death Of Non-Believing Europe |
04 Dec 2006 07:37:57 AM |
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On 3 Dec 2006 16:55:09 -0800, "ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Dec 2, 6:29 pm, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote:
If the deity is imaginary, and you're being indoctrinated into belief
in that deity from the time you can say your first few words, you're
being coerced into believing in an imaginary deity. ("Believe or burn
in hell" is coercion.)
From the time you can say your first few words you are learning to
reason, to tell the difference between what is unbelievable and what is
believable. Until you can do that, you are by default coerced into
believing whatever they tell you ( good or bad ). What I'm saying is
that unless you leave behind all your preconceived ideas, and examine
the evidence of the Deity impartially, you will continue to behave like
a child all your life ( and that is a long shot from "Believe or burn
in hell" ).
You can't examine what doesn't exist, and no one has ever shown any
evidence of any god. (Evidence of a god objectively existing would
have to be objective evidence.)
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to
the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his
children smart.
- H. L. Mencken
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
This signature was made by SigChanger.
You can find SigChanger at: http://www.phranc.nl/
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| User: "ernobe" |
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| Title: Re: The Slow Death Of Non-Believing Europe |
04 Dec 2006 11:14:46 AM |
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Al Klein wrote:
On 3 Dec 2006 16:55:09 -0800, "ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Dec 2, 6:29 pm, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote:
If the deity is imaginary, and you're being indoctrinated into belief
in that deity from the time you can say your first few words, you're
being coerced into believing in an imaginary deity. ("Believe or burn
in hell" is coercion.)
From the time you can say your first few words you are learning to
reason, to tell the difference between what is unbelievable and what is
believable. Until you can do that, you are by default coerced into
believing whatever they tell you ( good or bad ). What I'm saying is
that unless you leave behind all your preconceived ideas, and examine
the evidence of the Deity impartially, you will continue to behave like
a child all your life ( and that is a long shot from "Believe or burn
in hell" ).
You can't examine what doesn't exist, and no one has ever shown any
evidence of any god. (Evidence of a god objectively existing would
have to be objective evidence.)
The Bible is an object, and if I see it, I am evidencing it. The word
=B4God' appears in it several times.
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| User: "Richard Tobin" |
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| Title: Re: The Slow Death Of Non-Believing Europe |
04 Dec 2006 11:22:56 AM |
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In article <1165252486.809485.298270@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com>,
ernobe <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
You can't examine what doesn't exist, and no one has ever shown any
evidence of any god. (Evidence of a god objectively existing would
have to be objective evidence.)
The Bible is an object, and if I see it, I am evidencing it. The word
īGod' appears in it several times.
As does the word "Baal".
-- Richard
--
"Consideration shall be given to the need for as many as 32 characters
in some alphabets" - X3.4, 1963.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: The Slow Death Of Non-Believing Europe |
04 Dec 2006 11:44:19 AM |
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On 4 Dec 2006 09:14:46 -0800, "ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
Al Klein wrote:
On 3 Dec 2006 16:55:09 -0800, "ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Dec 2, 6:29 pm, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote:
If the deity is imaginary, and you're being indoctrinated into belief
in that deity from the time you can say your first few words, you're
being coerced into believing in an imaginary deity. ("Believe or burn
in hell" is coercion.)
From the time you can say your first few words you are learning to
reason, to tell the difference between what is unbelievable and what is
believable. Until you can do that, you are by default coerced into
believing whatever they tell you ( good or bad ). What I'm saying is
that unless you leave behind all your preconceived ideas, and examine
the evidence of the Deity impartially, you will continue to behave like
a child all your life ( and that is a long shot from "Believe or burn
in hell" ).
You can't examine what doesn't exist, and no one has ever shown any
evidence of any god. (Evidence of a god objectively existing would
have to be objective evidence.)
The Bible is an object, and if I see it, I am evidencing it. The word
īGod' appears in it several times.
But the Bible isn't evidence at all, let alone objective evidence,
that what the Bible claims is true. If the existence of a book proved
that the assertions in the book were true I would expect to see
Superman at least once in a while.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example
of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved --
the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"
- John Adams
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
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| User: "ernobe" |
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| Title: Re: The Slow Death Of Non-Believing Europe |
04 Dec 2006 09:55:30 PM |
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On Dec 4, 11:44 am, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote:
You can't examine what doesn't exist, and no one has ever shown any
evidence of any god. (Evidence of a god objectively existing would
have to be objective evidence.)
The Bible is an object, and if I see it, I am evidencing it. The word
=B4God' appears in it several times.
But the Bible isn't evidence at all, let alone objective evidence,
that what the Bible claims is true. If the existence of a book proved
that the assertions in the book were true I would expect to see
Superman at least once in a while.
The proof of the claims is evident to those who understand the true
nature of the evidence. It is not only evidence in the subjective
sense of "I see this" but in the sense of "This is a sign of something
else greater than it." The understanding to which it leads is likewise
more than just "I know this", but "The truth has revealed itself to
me".
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: The Slow Death Of Non-Believing Europe |
04 Dec 2006 10:36:11 PM |
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On 4 Dec 2006 19:55:30 -0800, "ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Dec 4, 11:44 am, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote:
You can't examine what doesn't exist, and no one has ever shown any
evidence of any god. (Evidence of a god objectively existing would
have to be objective evidence.)
The Bible is an object, and if I see it, I am evidencing it. The word
īGod' appears in it several times.
But the Bible isn't evidence at all, let alone objective evidence,
that what the Bible claims is true. If the existence of a book proved
that the assertions in the book were true I would expect to see
Superman at least once in a while.
The proof of the claims is evident to those who understand the true
nature of the evidence.
Claims AREN'T evidence. But people who believe they are shouldn't be
allowed to walk the streets alone.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but
not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."
-A. Einstein (1929 -- Einstein Archive 33-272)
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
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| User: "ernobe" |
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| Title: Re: The Slow Death Of Non-Believing Europe |
05 Dec 2006 06:21:09 PM |
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Al Klein wrote:
Claims AREN'T evidence. But people who believe they are shouldn't be
allowed to walk the streets alone.
You said it, Al, not me: "...the Bible claims....", remember?
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: The Slow Death Of Non-Believing Europe |
05 Dec 2006 07:12:32 PM |
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On 5 Dec 2006 16:21:09 -0800, "ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
Al Klein wrote:
Claims AREN'T evidence. But people who believe they are shouldn't be
allowed to walk the streets alone.
You said it, Al, not me: "...the Bible claims....", remember?
"people who believe", remember?
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"To assume the existence of an unperceivable being ... does not facilitate understanding
the orderliness we find in the perceivable world."
- Letter to an Iowa student who asked, What is God? July, 1953; Einstein Archive 59-085
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
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| User: "ernobe" |
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| Title: Re: The Slow Death Of Non-Believing Europe |
05 Dec 2006 07:25:44 PM |
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Al Klein wrote:
On 5 Dec 2006 16:21:09 -0800, "ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
Al Klein wrote:
Claims AREN'T evidence. But people who believe they are shouldn't be
allowed to walk the streets alone.
You said it, Al, not me: "...the Bible claims....", remember?
"people who believe", remember?
The bible claims people who believe? Now we're getting somewhere...
hey, I'll let you walk the streets by yourself, if you don't mind ( you
don't have to walk them ). Personally though I'd recommend another
line of work ( now there's a real ***** ).
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: The Slow Death Of Non-Believing Europe |
06 Dec 2006 07:27:41 AM |
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On 5 Dec 2006 17:25:44 -0800, "ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
Al Klein wrote:
On 5 Dec 2006 16:21:09 -0800, "ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
Al Klein wrote:
Claims AREN'T evidence. But people who believe they are shouldn't be
allowed to walk the streets alone.
You said it, Al, not me: "...the Bible claims....", remember?
"people who believe", remember?
The bible claims people who believe? Now we're getting somewhere...
hey, I'll let you walk the streets by yourself, if you don't mind ( you
don't have to walk them ). Personally though I'd recommend another
line of work ( now there's a real ***** ).
Allow me to recommend one for you - thinking.
<plonk>
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
The most curious social convention of the great age in which we live is the
one to the effect that religious opinions should be respected.
-- H. L. Mencken
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
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| User: "Christopher A.Lee" |
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| Title: Re: The Slow Death Of Non-Believing Europe |
06 Dec 2006 08:18:50 AM |
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On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 08:27:41 -0500, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:
On 5 Dec 2006 17:25:44 -0800, "ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
Al Klein wrote:
On 5 Dec 2006 16:21:09 -0800, "ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
Al Klein wrote:
Claims AREN'T evidence. But people who believe they are shouldn't be
allowed to walk the streets alone.
You said it, Al, not me: "...the Bible claims....", remember?
"people who believe", remember?
The bible claims people who believe? Now we're getting somewhere...
hey, I'll let you walk the streets by yourself, if you don't mind ( you
don't have to walk them ). Personally though I'd recommend another
line of work ( now there's a real ***** ).
Allow me to recommend one for you - thinking.
He hasn't shown he has the capability for that, in all the years he's
been posting his stupidity here.
<plonk>
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| User: "JAF" |
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| Title: Re: The Slow Death Of Non-Believing Europe |
05 Dec 2006 02:36:35 AM |
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On 4 Dec 2006 19:55:30 -0800, "ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
The proof of the claims is evident to those who understand the true
nature of the evidence. It is not only evidence in the subjective
sense of "I see this" but in the sense of "This is a sign of something
else greater than it." The understanding to which it leads is likewise
more than just "I know this", but "The truth has revealed itself to
me".
'Revealed truth' is not evidence, it's faith.
All the bible is, is evidence of the bible; nothing more.
--
JAF
anarchatntlworldfullstopcom
Keep Science Scientific
BCSE http://bcseweb.org.uk
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| User: "Dubh Ghall" |
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| Title: Re: The Slow Death Of Non-Believing Europe |
05 Dec 2006 03:12:03 PM |
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On 4 Dec 2006 19:55:30 -0800, "ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
The proof of the claims is evident to those who understand the true
nature of the evidence. It is not only evidence in the subjective
sense of "I see this" but in the sense of "This is a sign of something
else greater than it." The understanding to which it leads is likewise
more than just "I know this", but "The truth has revealed itself to
me".
OTOH, your posts provide incontrovertible, and objective evidence, that bat
farts make more sense than you ever will.
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| User: "Free Lunch" |
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| Title: Re: The Slow Death Of Non-Believing Europe |
04 Dec 2006 10:04:59 PM |
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On 4 Dec 2006 19:55:30 -0800, in alt.atheism
"ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote in
<1165290930.876260.238000@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>:
On Dec 4, 11:44 am, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote:
You can't examine what doesn't exist, and no one has ever shown any
evidence of any god. (Evidence of a god objectively existing would
have to be objective evidence.)
The Bible is an object, and if I see it, I am evidencing it. The word
īGod' appears in it several times.
But the Bible isn't evidence at all, let alone objective evidence,
that what the Bible claims is true. If the existence of a book proved
that the assertions in the book were true I would expect to see
Superman at least once in a while.
The proof of the claims is evident to those who understand the true
nature of the evidence. It is not only evidence in the subjective
sense of "I see this" but in the sense of "This is a sign of something
else greater than it." The understanding to which it leads is likewise
more than just "I know this", but "The truth has revealed itself to
me".
Why are you gibbering on? Evidence has a real meaning. Use it properly.
--
"... There's glory for you."
"I don't know what you mean by 'glory,'" Alice said.
Humpty Dumpty smiles contemptuously. "Of course you don't--till
I tell you. I meant 'there's a nice knock-down argument for you!'"
"But glory doesn't mean "a nice knock-down argument," Alice objected.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone,
"it means just what I choose it to mean--neither more nor less."
"The question is," said Alice "whether you can make words mean so
many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master--that's
all."
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: The Slow Death Of Non-Believing Europe |
04 Dec 2006 10:37:25 PM |
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On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 22:04:59 -0600, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us>
wrote:
On 4 Dec 2006 19:55:30 -0800, in alt.atheism
"ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote in
The proof of the claims is evident to those who understand the true
nature of the evidence. It is not only evidence in the subjective
sense of "I see this" but in the sense of "This is a sign of something
else greater than it." The understanding to which it leads is likewise
more than just "I know this", but "The truth has revealed itself to
me".
Why are you gibbering on? Evidence has a real meaning. Use it properly.
To people like Earlobe, "I know" is more solid evidence than a 10,000
pound fossil.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"If anyone comes to me, and does not hate his father, mother, wife, brothers, and sisters and even himself, he cannot be my disciple."
Luke 14:26
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
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| User: "brique" |
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| Title: Re: The Slow Death Of Non-Believing Europe |
04 Dec 2006 11:02:48 PM |
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ernobe <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1165290930.876260.238000@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 4, 11:44 am, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote:
You can't examine what doesn't exist, and no one has ever shown any
evidence of any god. (Evidence of a god objectively existing would
have to be objective evidence.)
The Bible is an object, and if I see it, I am evidencing it. The word
īGod' appears in it several times.
But the Bible isn't evidence at all, let alone objective evidence,
that what the Bible claims is true. If the existence of a book proved
that the assertions in the book were true I would expect to see
Superman at least once in a while.
The proof of the claims is evident to those who understand the true
nature of the evidence. It is not only evidence in the subjective
sense of "I see this" but in the sense of "This is a sign of something
else greater than it." The understanding to which it leads is likewise
more than just "I know this", but "The truth has revealed itself to
me".
And they actually convince other people of shyte like this? *****, humanity
is doomed..
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| User: "Michael Price" |
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| Title: Re: The Slow Death Of Non-Believing Europe |
04 Dec 2006 10:49:20 PM |
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ernobe wrote:
On Dec 4, 11:44 am, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote:
You can't examine what doesn't exist, and no one has ever shown any
evidence of any god. (Evidence of a god objectively existing would
have to be objective evidence.)
The Bible is an object, and if I see it, I am evidencing it. The word
=B4God' appears in it several times.
But the Bible isn't evidence at all, let alone objective evidence,
that what the Bible claims is true. If the existence of a book proved
that the assertions in the book were true I would expect to see
Superman at least once in a while.
The proof of the claims is evident to those who understand the true
nature of the evidence.
And how do you know you understand the true nature of the evidence?
The Bible can't be evidence for it's own truth because using the Bible
as
proof that the Bible is true only works if the Bible is true and thus
it is
assuming the consequent to so use it.
It is not only evidence in the subjective
sense of "I see this" but in the sense of "This is a sign of something
else greater than it."
How is it a sign and might it not be a sign that some Jews just
copied some
Babylonian lies long ago?
The understanding to which it leads is likewise
more than just "I know this", but "The truth has revealed itself to
me".
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| User: "JAF" |
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| Title: Re: The Slow Death Of Non-Believing Europe |
04 Dec 2006 01:28:46 PM |
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On 4 Dec 2006 09:14:46 -0800, "ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
evidencing
Do you 'leverage' too?
Pah!
--
JAF
anarchatntlworldfullstopcom
Keep Science Scientific
BCSE http://bcseweb.org.uk
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| User: "brique" |
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| Title: Re: The Slow Death Of Non-Believing Europe |
04 Dec 2006 11:01:11 PM |
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ernobe <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1165252486.809485.298270@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
Al Klein wrote:
On 3 Dec 2006 16:55:09 -0800, "ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Dec 2, 6:29 pm, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote:
If the deity is imaginary, and you're being indoctrinated into belief
in that deity from the time you can say your first few words, you're
being coerced into believing in an imaginary deity. ("Believe or burn
in hell" is coercion.)
From the time you can say your first few words you are learning to
reason, to tell the difference between what is unbelievable and what is
believable. Until you can do that, you are by default coerced into
believing whatever they tell you ( good or bad ). What I'm saying is
that unless you leave behind all your preconceived ideas, and examine
the evidence of the Deity impartially, you will continue to behave like
a child all your life ( and that is a long shot from "Believe or burn
in hell" ).
You can't examine what doesn't exist, and no one has ever shown any
evidence of any god. (Evidence of a god objectively existing would
have to be objective evidence.)
The Bible is an object, and if I see it, I am evidencing it. The word
īGod' appears in it several times.
As does the word 'the' but I dont see anyone worshipping the 'Almighty
The'.......
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: The Slow Death Of Non-Believing Europe |
05 Dec 2006 09:04:41 AM |
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On Tue, 5 Dec 2006 05:01:11 -0000, "brique" <briquenoir@freeuk.c0m>
wrote:
ernobe <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1165252486.809485.298270@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
Al Klein wrote:
On 3 Dec 2006 16:55:09 -0800, "ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Dec 2, 6:29 pm, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote:
If the deity is imaginary, and you're being indoctrinated into belief
in that deity from the time you can say your first few words, you're
being coerced into believing in an imaginary deity. ("Believe or burn
in hell" is coercion.)
From the time you can say your first few words you are learning to
reason, to tell the difference between what is unbelievable and what is
believable. Until you can do that, you are by default coerced into
believing whatever they tell you ( good or bad ). What I'm saying is
that unless you leave behind all your preconceived ideas, and examine
the evidence of the Deity impartially, you will continue to behave like
a child all your life ( and that is a long shot from "Believe or burn
in hell" ).
You can't examine what doesn't exist, and no one has ever shown any
evidence of any god. (Evidence of a god objectively existing would
have to be objective evidence.)
The Bible is an object, and if I see it, I am evidencing it. The word
īGod' appears in it several times.
That's Apologism, not evidence.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want
you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good...Our
goal is a Christian nation. We have a Biblical duty, we are called by
God, to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want
pluralism."
-Randall Terry, Founder of Operation Rescue, The News-Sentinel, Fort
Wayne, Indiana, 8-16-93
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
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| User: "JAF" |
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| Title: Re: The Slow Death Of Non-Believing Europe |
02 Dec 2006 03:26:29 PM |
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On 2 Dec 2006 12:47:36 -0800, "ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
Are there any more delusions that you want to
ascribe to Christianity?
There's only the one.
--
JAF
anarchatntlworldfullstopcom
Keep Science Scientific
BCSE http://bcseweb.org.uk
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: The Slow Death Of Non-Believing Europe |
02 Dec 2006 06:30:55 PM |
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On Sat, 02 Dec 2006 21:26:29 GMT, JAF <anarchSPAMKILLER@ntlworld.com>
wrote:
On 2 Dec 2006 12:47:36 -0800, "ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
Are there any more delusions that you want to
ascribe to Christianity?
There's only the one.
There are actually a few related delusions:
God
Jesus
Miracles
Heaven
Hell
....
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
There are three kinds of men:
The ones that learn by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence.
- (Will Rogers)
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
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| User: "Mark D J. Mark D" |
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| Title: Re: The Slow Death Of Non-Believing Europe |
02 Dec 2006 06:50:43 PM |
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"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:dk64n2d6qfmn20rgadb3pos6a3f149jh77@4ax.com...
On Sat, 02 Dec 2006 21:26:29 GMT, JAF <anarchSPAMKILLER@ntlworld.com>
wrote:
On 2 Dec 2006 12:47:36 -0800, "ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
Are there any more delusions that you want to
ascribe to Christianity?
There's only the one.
There are actually a few related delusions:
God
Jesus
Miracles
Heaven
Hell
Sin
Grace
Redemption.
M.
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| User: "JAF" |
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| Title: Re: The Slow Death Of Non-Believing Europe |
03 Dec 2006 02:36:45 AM |
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On Sat, 02 Dec 2006 19:30:55 -0500, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Sat, 02 Dec 2006 21:26:29 GMT, JAF <anarchSPAMKILLER@ntlworld.com>
wrote:
On 2 Dec 2006 12:47:36 -0800, "ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
Are there any more delusions that you want to
ascribe to Christianity?
There's only the one.
There are actually a few related delusions:
God
Jesus
Miracles
Heaven
Hell
No, just the one - Religion
--
JAF
anarchatntlworldfullstopcom
Keep Science Scientific
BCSE http://bcseweb.org.uk
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| User: "Lucifer" |
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| Title: Re: The Slow Death Of Non-Believing Europe |
03 Dec 2006 03:53:38 AM |
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ernobe wrote:
Greywolf wrote:
Did someone say 'Christianity' *created* European civilization? What about
those Zeus lovin' *Greeks*? You know, that 'Zeus' who was *just* as
make-believe as Jesus/God is. Didn't *they* help put a little 'civil' in
civilization? But more importantly, isn't coerced belief in an imaginary
deity show a profound display of an ignorant society? What in the world does
a 'civilization' need with a deluded belief in the absurd, the ridiculous,
and the preposterous for?
"What in the world does a 'civilization' need with... for?"? Not sure
what the sentence means, but if you think Chrisitianity calls for such,
you haven't read the Bible yet. Even if you think belief in miracles
is deluded, absurd, ridiculous and preposterous, what is even more
important is what the supposed miracles are trying to accomplish. If
it is something good, that helps people, according to their own wishes,
how can you say that you are being coerced to believe in an imaginary
deity? Not unless you've made a deity of your own desires, and these
run contrary to the ordinary desires of people. In this case, it is
good that you feel coerced, and I'm happy to contribute to your
delusions of coercion. Are there any more delusions that you want to
ascribe to Christianity? Don't forget about the evil and depravity of
the Romans that is still with us because of the Church. LOL!
WAITER! I said NO earlobes in my word salad!
--
Lucifer the Unsubtle, EAC Librarian of Dark Tomes of Excessive Evil and
General Purpose Igor
The Anti-Theist
Convicted by Earthquack
"Don't worry, I won't bite.......hard"
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