Religions > Atheism > The Taliban Left - anti-Christian bigots want to shut down off campus Bible Class
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Unpleasant Truth" |
| Date: |
03 Feb 2005 09:19:25 AM |
| Object: |
The Taliban Left - anti-Christian bigots want to shut down off campus Bible Class |
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A29266-2005Jan22.html?sub=AR
Bible Breaks at Public Schools Face Challenges in Rural Virginia
By Carol Morello
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, January 23, 2005; Page A01
STAUNTON, Va. -- Lunch is over and some classes already are at recess when a
group of schoolchildren at McSwain Elementary stands up, puts on coats,
walks 200 feet across the playground and files into Memorial Baptist Church.
Over the next half-hour, the Bible shapes the lesson plan.
The children pray, sing and play games with a Christian theme. In one class,
12 third-graders hear a story and pray to Jesus, repenting for acting
"growly." In another, third-graders eagerly offer 24 names for Jesus. They
praise the Lord in song: "You're my savior, you're my messiah." They bow
their heads and repeat the Lord's Prayer.
Then they don their coats again, leave the church and trek back to rejoin
the few classmates whose parents declined to enroll their children in the
weekday religious classes.
But now, the practice is being challenged by a group of parents who have
asked the School Board to end or modify weekday religious education. Not
only do they fear that their children are stigmatized for not attending, but
in a decidedly 21st-century twist, they also argue that interrupting class
for Bible study hinders efforts to meet state and national standards for
test scores.
For decades, the lessons were conducted inside public school classrooms.
But in its 1948 decision McCollum v. Board of Education, the Supreme Court
ruled that the lessons violated the principle of separation of church and
state. Amid criticism that it was atheistic, the court returned to the issue
four years later in Zorach v. Clauson. That decision approved classes held
away from school premises, ruling that the practice might be unwise from an
educational viewpoint but that to prevent it would be hostile to religious
freedom.
They got that right - HOSTILE TO RELIGIOUS FREEDOM. That's what the Taliban
left is all about. (Of course, the original 1948 ruling was hostile to the
original intent of the constitution, but that's another issue.)
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: The Taliban Left - anti-Christian bigots want to shut down offcampus Bible Class |
08 Feb 2005 05:14:05 AM |
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Unpleasant Truth wrote:
"Jez" <iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMpipex.com> wrote in message
news:Z5ydnXGyK7aVE5rfRVnyuw@pipex.net...
Unpleasant Truth wrote:
"Jez" <iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMpipex.com> wrote in message
news:_c6dnf3RdKD1Kp7fRVnyrw@pipex.net...
Unpleasant Truth wrote:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A29266-2005Jan22.html?sub=AR
Bible Breaks at Public Schools Face Challenges in Rural Virginia
By Carol Morello
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, January 23, 2005; Page A01
STAUNTON, Va. -- Lunch is over and some classes already are at recess
when a
group of schoolchildren at McSwain Elementary stands up, puts on coats,
walks 200 feet across the playground and files into Memorial Baptist
Church.
Over the next half-hour, the Bible shapes the lesson plan.
The children pray, sing and play games with a Christian theme. In one
class,
12 third-graders hear a story and pray to Jesus, repenting for acting
"growly." In another, third-graders eagerly offer 24 names for Jesus.
They
praise the Lord in song: "You're my savior, you're my messiah." They
bow
their heads and repeat the Lord's Prayer.
Why any parent would want their child brain-washed into the Christian
cult is beyond my comprehension.
That's obvious. Similarly, and sadly, many people living under
oppression
but relatively comfortable from a material point of view wonder why
anyone
would ever fight for liberty.
They got that right - HOSTILE TO RELIGIOUS FREEDOM. That's what the
Taliban
left is all about.
Stupid prat. It's the religious dumb-fucks of all cults that are hostile
to freedom
We are all impressed with your eloquent use of language, which so well
reflects your cogent thinking.
Well, holy shite, thank ***** for that, and there was me thinking my
fucking eloquence was being fucking well ignored.
The past century has been marked by unprecedented oppression and mass
murder
by anti-religious regimes and their liberation by Christian nations,
Hitler was a Catholic.
Thank you for proving my point about your intellect, or rather, lack
thereof.
So your denying Hitler was a Catholic are you ?
most
notably the most Christian of them all, the United States.
The US has never liberated anyone.
Ditto.
Name some countries the US had liberated.
--
Jez
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
That's right - quote Howard Zinn, an apologist for the (atheist and) most
murderous regime in the history of the world (except, perhaps, for the
similarly atheistic communist Chinese regime).
You clearly demonstrate, after ridiculing my intellect, that you have no
intellect whatsoever.
Another irony-meter dies a violent death.
--
Jez
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
NFS Underground2, Americas Army And MOH-PA
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| User: "Unpleasant Truth" |
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| Title: Re: The Taliban Left - anti-Christian bigots want to shut down off campus Bible Class |
09 Feb 2005 07:18:24 AM |
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"Jez" <iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMpipex.com> wrote in message
news:5tSdnc7o94ZrA5XfRVnyrw@pipex.net...
Unpleasant Truth wrote:
"Jez" <iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMpipex.com> wrote in message
news:Z5ydnXGyK7aVE5rfRVnyuw@pipex.net...
Unpleasant Truth wrote:
The past century has been marked by unprecedented oppression and mass
murder
by anti-religious regimes and their liberation by Christian nations,
Hitler was a Catholic.
Thank you for proving my point about your intellect, or rather, lack
thereof.
So your denying Hitler was a Catholic are you ?
Of course. Being a Catholic is a matter of belief and practice, not a
matter of what your parents might have been. Was David Koresh a Christian?
The idea that Hilter was a Christian of any sort is a lunatic rant of
anti-Christian fanatics as evidenced in
http://www.evilbible.com/hitler_was_christian.htm
In this country, many Catholics believe participating and even facilitating
abortion is sufficient to exclude a person from the Eucharist, much less
committing mass murder.
So, unless you want to argue that Catholic teaching promotes occultism,
murdering Catholic priests and persecuting the church, and believing
yourself to be the Messiah, I suggest you abandon your absurd attempt to
link Hitler with Catholicism.
Hitler's occultism and hatred for Christianity:
The Atlantic | May 2003 | Hitler's Forgotten Library | Ryback
www.theatlantic.com/issues/2003/05/ryback.htm
The Atlantic Monthly | May 2003
Hitler's Forgotten Library:
The Man, His Books, and His Search for God
by Timothy W. Ryback
You can tell a lot about a person from what he reads. The
surviving-and
largely ignored-remnants of Adolf Hitler's personal library reveal a
deep
but erratic interest in religion and theology
...
Given Hitler's legendary disdain for organized religion in general and
Christianity in particular, I didn't expect him to have devoted much
time
to the teachings of Christ, let alone to have marked this
quintessential
Christian virtue. Had this in fact been made by the pencil of Hitler's
younger sister, Paula, who occasionally visited her brother at the
Berghof
and remained a devout Catholic until her dying day? Might some other
Berghof guest have responded to this holy Scripture?
....
A survey of all the evidence forces us to conclude that Hitler
believes
himself destined to become an Immortal Hitler, chosen by God to be
the
New Deliverer of Germany and the Founder of a new social order for
the
world. He firmly believes this and is certain that in spite of all
the
trials and tribulations through which he must pass he will finally
attain that goal. The one condition is that he follow the dictates
of
the inner voice that have guided and protected him in the past.
In his summary Langer outlined eight possible scenarios for Hitler's
course of action in the face of defeat. The most likely scenario, he
suggested in a prescient moment, was that Hitler's belief in divine
protection would compel him to fight to the bitter end, "drag[ging] a
world with us-a world in flames," and that ultimately he would take
his
own life.
....
Experts since then have been of two minds on the matter of Hitler's
spiritual beliefs. Ian Kershaw argues that Hitler consciously
constructed
an image of himself as a messianic figure, and eventually came to
believe
the very myth he had helped to fashion. "The more he succumbed to the
allure of his own Führer cult and came to believe in his own myth, the
more his judgment became impaired by faith in his own infallibility,"
Kershaw writes in The Hitler Myth (1987). But believing in a messianic
myth is not the same as believing in God. When I asked Kershaw in 2001
whether he thought Hitler actually believed in divine providence, he
dismissed the notion. "I don't think that he had any real belief in a
deity of any sort, only in himself as a 'man of destiny' who would
bring
about Germany's 'salvation,'" he declared. Gerhard Weinberg, who
helped
sort through the Hitler Library back in the 1950s, likewise dismisses
the
notion of Hitler as a religious believer, insisting that he was driven
by
the twin passions of Blut und Boden-racial purity and territorial
expansion. "He didn't believe in anything but himself," Weinberg told
me
last summer. Most historians tend to agree.
Some non-historians, however, have different views. In the 1960s
Friedrich
Heer, a prominent and controversial Viennese theologian, identified
Hitler
as a misguided "Austrian Catholic," a man whose faith was disastrously
misplaced but nevertheless sincere. In a dense, 750-page treatise Heer
saw
Hitler the Austrian Catholic at every turn: the nine-year-old choirboy
catching his first glimpse of a swastika in the coat of arms at the
Lambach Monastery; the beer-hall orator whose speeches resound with
biblical allusions; the Führer of the Reich who re-created the
splendor of
the Catholic mass at the annual Nuremberg rally. Even his virulent
hatred
of Jewry found sustenance in those roots. Fritz Redlich, an eminent
Yale
psychiatrist, asserts in his book, Hitler: Diagnosis of a Destructive
Prophet, that Hitler acted from a profound belief in God. Noting
Hitler's
own words "Man kommt um den Gottesbegriff nicht um" ("You cannot get
around the concept of God"), Redlich told me last summer that he was
certain Hitler believed in a "divine creature." He rejected
suggestions
that Hitler's invocations of the divine were little more than cynical
public posturing and insisted that we ought to take Hitler at his
word:
"In a way, Hitler was a terrible liar, but he was a tactical liar. In
his
essential line of thinking he was honest."
Traudl Junge, Hitler's former secretary, would not go so far as to say
that Hitler believed in God, but she did believe that Hitler's
repeated
references to the divine were more than just for show. Junge-who died
of
cancer in February of last year-told me the previous summer that
Hitler
spoke of such things in private as well as in public. After two and a
half
years of daily contact with Hitler, she was convinced that he believed
in
some form of divine protection, especially after surviving a dramatic
assassination attempt in 1944. "After the July 1944 attack," she told
me,
"I believe he felt himself to be an instrument of providence, and
believed
he had a mission to fulfill."
In my hands I hold a book about Nostradamus, the sixteenth-century
French
mystic whose predictions of epic calamities have fascinated
generations,
and whose stanza "From poor people a child will be born/ who with his
tongue will seduce many people" has been interpreted as prophesying
the
rise of Adolf Hitler. Printed on high-acid paper, this volume, with
its
137 brittle, crumbling pages, bears a publication date of 1921 but
feels
centuries older. The book promises to "decypher and reveal for the
first
time the prophesies on the future of Europe and the rise and fall of
France from 1555 to 2200." Its final pages offer additional mystical
edification in a series of advertisements for related texts: Memoirs
of a
Spiritualist, The Wandering Soul, How Can I Protect Myself From
Suggestion
and Hypnosis?, Soul and Cosmos, The Realm of the Invisible, and Human
Destiny and the Course of the Stars. Pasted inside this moldering
volume
is one of Adolf Hitler's bookplates.
The Predictions of Nostradamus belongs to a cache of occult books that
Hitler acquired in the early 1920s and that were discovered in the
private
quarters of his Berlin bunker by Colonel Albert Aronson in May of
1945. As
part of the Allied occupation forces, Aronson was among the first
Americans to enter Berlin after the collapse of the Nazi resistance.
"When
my uncle arrived, the Russians took him on a tour of Hitler's bunker,"
one
of Aronson's nephews recalls. "He said that the Russians had pretty
much
picked the place clean, but there were some pictures and a pile of
books
they let him take." According to the nephew, the books remained in
Aronson's attic until his death, at which point they were bequeathed
to
his nephew, who donated them to Brown University in 1979.
....
Like the Library of Congress collection, Brown's eighty Hitler books
constitute a hodgepodge: picture books, art journals, an Italian
libretto
of Wagner's Walküre, a 1937 edition of Mein Kampf, and two editions of
Alfred Rosenberg's The Myth of the Twentieth Century. The more than a
dozen books on the occult include several devoted to Nordic runes,
among
them a 1922 history of the swastika, richly illustrated with nearly
500
diverse renderings-in Egyptian hieroglyphics, Greek pottery, Mayan
temples, and Christian crosses. The Dead Are Alive delivers
"incontrovertible evidence on occultism, somnambulism, spiritualism,
with
sixteen photographs of ghosts." Among the photographic images that
fill
the final pages of the volume is one of five people levitating a table
at
an 1892 séance in Genoa and another allegedly showing the ghost of a
fifteen-year-old Polish girl, Stasia, being consumed by a "luminous,
misty
substance." A picture of a rather stately-looking Englishman is
captioned
"The Phantom of the English writer Charles Dickens who died in 1871
and is
buried in Westminster Abbey. He appeared in 1873 and was
photographed."
The canon of Hitler historiography declares that Hitler flirted with
occultism in the early 1920s, and that he recruited some of his
closest
ideological lieutenants-Rudolf Hess, Martin Bormann, Alfred Rosenberg,
and
Heinrich Himmler-from the Thule Society and similar Nordic cults.
"When I
first knew Adolf Hitler in Munich, in 1921 and 1922, he was in touch
with
a circle that believed firmly in the portents of the stars," Karl
Wiegand,
a former Hitler associate, recalled in an article for Cosmopolitan in
1939.
"There was much whispering about the coming of 'another Charlemagne
and
a new Reich.' How far Hitler believed in these astrological
forecasts
and prophesies in those days I never could get out of the Führer. He
neither denied nor affirmed belief. He was not averse, however, to
making use of the forecasts to advance popular faith in himself and
his
then young and struggling movement."
Most scholars dismiss the notion that Hitler seriously entertained the
ideas of these cults, but the marginalia in several of his books
confirm
at least an intellectual engagement in the substance of Weimar-era
occultism. The Brown collection contains books by such figures as
Adamant
Rohm, a "magnetopathic doctor" from Wiesbaden; Carl Ludwig Schleich, a
Berlin physician who pioneered the use of local anesthesia; and Joseph
Anton Schneiderfranken, who wrote numerous books on reincarnation and
otherworldly phenomena under the pseudonym Bô Yin Râ.
....
Hitler's copy of Magic bears a handwritten dedication from Schertel,
scrawled on the title page in pencil. A 170-page softcover in large
format, the book has been thoroughly read, and its margins scored
repeatedly. I found a particularly thick pencil line beside the
passage
"He who does not carry demonic seeds within him will never give birth
to a
new world."
....
For all the vitriol Hitler spewed upon Judaism, he came to hold
Christianity in equal disdain. "Christianity is the worst thing that
ever
happened to mankind," he declared during an after-dinner rant in July
of
1941. "Bolshevism is the illegitimate child of Christianity. Both are
an
outgrowth of the Jew."
Hitler was the classic apostate. He rebelled against the established
theology in which he was born and bred, all the while seeking to fill
the
resulting spiritual void. As the Hitler Library suggests, he found no
shortage of latter-day prophets peddling alternative theologies.
Mathilde
von Kemnitz, the wife of Erich Ludendorff, the venerated World War I
general who joined Hitler in the Munich putsch, promoted a
neo-Teutonic
pagan cult that called for the destruction of churches and the
creation of
forest temples and places of sacrifice. A 1922 volume of her writings,
Triumph of the Will to Immortality, bears a bizarre and cryptic
inscription to Hitler.
Now don't forget you young, blessed soul,
If you never leave the afterlife
You will thus be a perfect God
For as long as you live.
Hitler tolerated Kemnitz's neo-pagan looniness until Ludendorff's
death,
in December of 1937. In the autumn of 1939 the Nazi government,
invoking
wartime rationing, terminated paper supplies for Kemnitz's publication
At
the Holy Well (Am Heiligen Quell), effectively silencing her movement.
Kemnitz, who survived the war, never forgave Hitler the betrayal.
....
Unquestionably the most significant unread volume in the Hitler
collection
is a 1940 edition of Alfred Rosenberg's The Myth of the Twentieth
Century,
the Nazi classic that, with more than a million copies in print at the
time, was second only to Mein Kampf for the Nazi movement. In the
course
of its 800 pages Rosenberg delivered the theological framework for a
National German Church intended to subsume "the best of the protestant
and
catholic churches" and eliminate the "Jew-infested Old Testament."
Denouncing the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John as a
"counterfeit
of the great image of Christ," Rosenberg envisioned a "fifth gospel"
depicting Jesus as an Aryan superman-"The powerful preacher and the
raging
prophet in the temple, the man who inspired, and whom everyone
followed,
not the sacrificial lamb of the Jewish prophets, not the man on the
cross."
....
As I traced the penciled notations, I realized that Hitler was seeking
a
path to the divine that led to just one place. Fichte asked, "Where
did
Jesus derive the power that has held his followers for all eternity?"
Hitler drew a dense line beneath the answer: "Through his absolute
identification with God." At another point Hitler highlighted a brief
but
revealing paragraph: "God and I are One. Expressed simply in two
identical
sentences-His life is mine; my life is his. My work is his work, and
his
work my work."
Among the numerous volumes dealing with the spiritual, the mystical,
and
the occult I found a typewritten manuscript that could well have
served as
a blueprint for Hitler's theology. This bound 230-page treatise is
titled
The Law of the World: The Coming Religion and was written by a Munich
resident named Maximilian Riedel. During the first week of August 1939
the
manuscript was hand-delivered to Anni Winter, Hitler's longtime Munich
housekeeper, with the request that it be passed to Hitler personally.
An
accompanying letter read,
Mein Führer!
In this densely written treatise Riedel established the groundwork for
his
"new religion," replacing the Trinity of the Father, Son, and Holy
Ghost
with a new tripartite unity, the "Körper, Geist und Seele"-"body,
mind,
and soul." Riedel argued that traditionally mankind has recognized
five
senses, which relate only to the physical aspects of our existence,
and
that this hinders our ability to perceive the true nature of our
relationship to God and the universe. He offered seven additional
"senses"
that every human being possesses, which are related to the subjective
perception of the world; among them Riedel included our inherent sense
of
what is right and wrong, our emotional sense of another person, our
sense
of self-preservation. On a two-page centerfold he illustrated his
theory
with a circular diagram in which various concepts-"soul," "space,"
"reality," "present," "past," "possibility," "transformation,"
"culture,"
"afterlife," "humanity," "infinity"-are connected by a spider web of
lines. "The body, mind and soul do not belong to the individual, they
belong to the universe," the author explained.
Riedel's "trinity" seems to have attracted Hitler's particular
attention.
A dense penciled line parallels the following passage: "The problem
with
being objective is that we use objective criteria as the basis for
human
understanding in general, which means that the objective criteria,
that
is, the rational criteria, end up serving as the basis for all human
understanding, perception and decision-making." By using the five
traditional senses to achieve this "objectivity," Riedel declared,
human
beings exclude the possibility of perceiving-through the additional
seven
senses he identified-the deeper forces of the world, and are thus
unable
to achieve that unity of body, mind, and soul. "The human mind never
decides things on its own, it is the result of a discourse between the
body and the soul," he claimed.
The sentence not only caught Hitler's attention-beneath it is a thick
line, and beside it in the margin are three parallel pencil marks-but
was
echoed two years later in one of his monologues. "Mind and soul
ultimately
return to the collective being of the world," Hitler told some guests
in
December of 1941. "If there is a God, then he gives us not only life
but
also consciousness and awareness. If I live my life according to my
God-given insights, then I cannot go wrong, and even if I do, I know I
have acted in good faith."
As I sat in the rarefied seclusion of the Jefferson Building's
second-floor reading room one day, listening to the muffled roar of
traffic and the distant wail of police sirens in late-summer
Washington, I
attempted to comprehend the full significance of this sentence to
which
Hitler seems to have responded so emphatically. Back in 1943 Walter
Langer
had concluded-correctly, to my mind-that in order to understand Hitler
one
had to understand his profound belief in divine powers. But Hitler
believed that the mortal and the divine were one and the same: that
the
God he was seeking was in fact himself.
The picture here is quite clear - Hitler, just like many self-appointed
messianic nuts in the Common Era, studied the life of the real Messiah and
co-opted the useful parts in order to proclaim himself the new messiah. Not
only does that make Hitler and the rest of these nuts not Catholic (or any
other flavor of Christian), it makes them explicitly anti-Christian and
prototypes of the Anti-Christ.
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/augustine/arch/heroes.htm
Hitler regarded Poles as only slightly superior to Jews; he was resolved to
exterminate Polish culture and identity. His first step was the elimination
of the intelligentsia?including the clergy. By the end of 1940 in several
regions only ten or twenty percent of the priests remained; the rest were
dead or in concentration camps. Bishop Kozal of Vladislava was in Dachau;
many other bishops were in exile or in prison. By the end of the war several
more Polish bishops would be sent to the camps, 3,000 Polish clergy would
have died in them and 800 would be liberated from them by the Allies. It
isn't possible to know exactly how many had already been killed or
imprisoned by November 1940, but Archbishop Andreas Szeptycki of Lwow must
have had some idea. Nevertheless he publicly threatened "with Divine
punishment" any who "shed innocent blood," and ordered those who cooperated
with the Nazis excluded from the sacraments. Szeptycki also led by example:
he hid 21 Jews in his own cathedral, and 183 more in convents and
monasteries. "Approximately 500 monks and nuns had knowledge of these facts,
but in spite of the death penalty for sheltering Jews and financial rewards
for all informers, none of the Metropolitan's wards fell into Nazi hands."
most
notably the most Christian of them all, the United States.
The US has never liberated anyone.
Ditto.
Name some countries the US had liberated.
Is this question serious? But then, given the sad state of modern, leftist
dominated, education, it might well be just out of ignorance.
(From memory, so the list is certain to be incomplete)
Victory in WWII:
France
Belgium
Austria
Denmark
The Nederlands
There were a number of countries in Eastern Europe that we liberated from
the Nazis, but since FDR handed them over to the Soviets, one could hardly
call them liberated at that poiint. Their liberation would have to wait a
long 40 years of oppression until Ronald Reagan came along. Which leads to
the following list:
Victory in the Cold War
Poland
Hungary
Czechoslovakia
Romania
Bulgaria
East Germany
Finland
Nicaragua
El Salvador
Now, how about listing some countries liberated by anyone OTHER than the
U.S. in the last 100 years.
Jez
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
That's right - quote Howard Zinn, an apologist for the (atheist and)
most
murderous regime in the history of the world (except, perhaps, for the
similarly atheistic communist Chinese regime).
You clearly demonstrate, after ridiculing my intellect, that you have no
intellect whatsoever.
Another irony-meter dies a violent death.
Commenting on Zinn's Marxist work (of fiction), "A People's History of the
United States" (a communist friendly phrase in itself), Dan Flynn writes,
http://www.frontpagemag.com/articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=8145
Through Zinn's looking-glass, Maoist China, site of history's bloodiest
state-sponsored killings, transforms into "the closest thing, in the long
history of that ancient country, to a people's government, independent of
outside control." The authoritarian Nicaraguan Sandinistas were "welcomed"
by their own people, while the opposition Contras, who backed the candidate
that triumphed when free elections were finally held, were a "terrorist
group" that "seemed to have no popular support inside Nicaragua." Castro's
Cuba, readers learn, "had no bloody record of suppression."
Another quote from "A People's History of the United States:"
Class interest has always been obscured behind an all-encompassing veil
called "the national interest." My own war experience [in World War II], and
the history of all those military interventions in which the United States
was engaged, made me skeptical when I heard people in high political office
invoke "the national interest" or "national security" to justify their
policies. It was with such justifications that Truman initiated a "police
action" in Korea that killed several million people, that Johnson and Nixon
carried out a war in Indochina in which perhaps 3 million died, that Reagan
invaded Grenada, Bush attacked Panama and then Iraq, and Clinton bombed Iraq
again and again.
[Translation: N. Korea was a benevolent, popular government that was invaded
by the evil U.S. and subverted. Similarly, U.S. behavior forced Pol Pot to
murder 2 - 3 million of his own people. If only we had stayed out of S.E.
Asia, Pol Pot would have been able to build the "worker's paradise"
communist regimes were so noted for all over the world.]
That is the sort of lies one gets from Marxist historians. They are scum.
My criticism stands.
At what Howard Zinn has called the war's last teach-in, Zinn, Chomsky, and
the participants were joyous upon hearing of the fall of Saigon. "In the
midst of the proceedings," Zinn recalls, "a student came racing down the
aisle with a dispatch in his hand, shouting 'Saigon has fallen. The war is
over,' and the auditorium exploded in cheers."
(Of course I left out all the rest of his insane anti-Americanism, since
that was not really germane. And he's not getting better on Iraq. "The war
in Fallujah cannot be won," Zinn wrote. "It should not be won." At least
he's consistent - always supporting the greatest evil.)
I suppose it's no coincidence that someone who defends Zinn's Marxist
anti-American rants also believes the fantasy that Hitler was a Catholic.
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: The Taliban Left - anti-Christian bigots want to shut down offcampus Bible Class |
09 Feb 2005 12:06:01 PM |
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Unpleasant Truth wrote:
"Jez" <iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMpipex.com> wrote in message
news:5tSdnc7o94ZrA5XfRVnyrw@pipex.net...
Unpleasant Truth wrote:
"Jez" <iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMpipex.com> wrote in message
news:Z5ydnXGyK7aVE5rfRVnyuw@pipex.net...
Unpleasant Truth wrote:
The past century has been marked by unprecedented oppression and mass
murder
by anti-religious regimes and their liberation by Christian nations,
Hitler was a Catholic.
Thank you for proving my point about your intellect, or rather, lack
thereof.
So your denying Hitler was a Catholic are you ?
Of course. Being a Catholic is a matter of belief and practice, not a
matter of what your parents might have been. Was David Koresh a Christian?
The idea that Hilter was a Christian of any sort is a lunatic rant of
anti-Christian fanatics as evidenced in
http://www.evilbible.com/hitler_was_christian.htm
In this country, many Catholics believe participating and even facilitating
abortion is sufficient to exclude a person from the Eucharist, much less
committing mass murder.
So, unless you want to argue that Catholic teaching promotes occultism,
murdering Catholic priests and persecuting the church, and believing
yourself to be the Messiah, I suggest you abandon your absurd attempt to
link Hitler with Catholicism.
Hitler's occultism and hatred for Christianity:
The Atlantic | May 2003 | Hitler's Forgotten Library | Ryback
www.theatlantic.com/issues/2003/05/ryback.htm
Snippage....
Try :
http://www.nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/augustine/arch/heroes.htm
Snippage....
most
notably the most Christian of them all, the United States.
The US has never liberated anyone.
Ditto.
Name some countries the US had liberated.
Is this question serious? But then, given the sad state of modern, leftist
dominated, education, it might well be just out of ignorance.
(From memory, so the list is certain to be incomplete)
Victory in WWII:
After Folks like Henry Ford and Prescott Bush had helped finance Hitler,
and after us Brits had started gaining ground.
France
Belgium
Austria
Denmark
The Nederlands
There were a number of countries in Eastern Europe that we liberated from
the Nazis, but since FDR handed them over to the Soviets, one could hardly
call them liberated at that poiint. Their liberation would have to wait a
long 40 years of oppression until Ronald Reagan came along. Which leads to
the following list:
Victory in the Cold War
Poland
Hungary
Czechoslovakia
Romania
Bulgaria
East Germany
Finland
Nicaragua
The US involvement in Nicaragua was a war crime...as judged by
International Court of Justice, the World Court, and the UN Security
Council.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Chomsky/ChomOdon_Nicaragua.html
El Salvador
http://www2.truman.edu/~marc/resources/interventions.html
http://www.socialistworker.org/2001/384/384_06_WashWarCrimes.shtml
Now, how about listing some countries liberated by anyone OTHER than the
U.S. in the last 100 years.
The US only defends it's overseas business interests.
Jez
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
That's right - quote Howard Zinn, an apologist for the (atheist and)
most
murderous regime in the history of the world (except, perhaps, for the
similarly atheistic communist Chinese regime).
You clearly demonstrate, after ridiculing my intellect, that you have no
intellect whatsoever.
Another irony-meter dies a violent death.
Commenting on Zinn's Marxist work (of fiction), "A People's History of the
United States" (a communist friendly phrase in itself), Dan Flynn writes,
http://www.frontpagemag.com/articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=8145
Through Zinn's looking-glass, Maoist China, site of history's bloodiest
state-sponsored killings, transforms into "the closest thing, in the long
history of that ancient country, to a people's government, independent of
outside control."
Which is hated by the US, who want to control everyone.
The authoritarian Nicaraguan Sandinistas were "welcomed"
by their own people, while the opposition Contras, who backed the candidate
that triumphed when free elections were finally held, were a "terrorist
group" that "seemed to have no popular support inside Nicaragua." Castro's
Cuba, readers learn, "had no bloody record of suppression."
Zinn gets it right. You, however, fall for whatever lies the
administration spews forth.
Kissengers words..on Chile are quite interesting....
"I don't see why we need to stand by and watch a country go communist
due to the irresponsibility of its people."
Such is the contempt for Democracy held by the power brokers in the US.
Another quote from "A People's History of the United States:"
Class interest has always been obscured behind an all-encompassing veil
called "the national interest." My own war experience [in World War II], and
the history of all those military interventions in which the United States
was engaged, made me skeptical when I heard people in high political office
invoke "the national interest" or "national security" to justify their
policies. It was with such justifications that Truman initiated a "police
action" in Korea that killed several million people, that Johnson and Nixon
carried out a war in Indochina in which perhaps 3 million died, that Reagan
invaded Grenada, Bush attacked Panama and then Iraq, and Clinton bombed Iraq
again and again.
[Translation: N. Korea was a benevolent, popular government that was invaded
by the evil U.S. and subverted. Similarly, U.S. behavior forced Pol Pot to
murder 2 - 3 million of his own people. If only we had stayed out of S.E.
Asia, Pol Pot would have been able to build the "worker's paradise"
communist regimes were so noted for all over the world.]
That is the sort of lies one gets from Marxist historians. They are scum.
No. You are.
My criticism stands.
Nope, afraid not.
At what Howard Zinn has called the war's last teach-in, Zinn, Chomsky, and
the participants were joyous upon hearing of the fall of Saigon. "In the
midst of the proceedings," Zinn recalls, "a student came racing down the
aisle with a dispatch in his hand, shouting 'Saigon has fallen. The war is
over,' and the auditorium exploded in cheers."
(Of course I left out all the rest of his insane anti-Americanism, since
that was not really germane. And he's not getting better on Iraq. "The war
in Fallujah cannot be won," Zinn wrote. "It should not be won." At least
he's consistent - always supporting the greatest evil.)
As for Fallujah, try :
http://dahrjamailiraq.com/weblog/archives/dispatches/000196.php#more
I suppose it's no coincidence that someone who defends Zinn's Marxist
anti-American rants also believes the fantasy that Hitler was a Catholic.
Your the one believing in fantasy. Like all the religious folks.
Speaking out against a governments policies is NOT anti-American, idiot.
--
Jez
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
NFS Underground2, Americas Army And MOH-PA
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| User: "Unpleasant Truth" |
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| Title: Re: The Taliban Left - anti-Christian bigots want to shut down off campus Bible Class |
10 Feb 2005 01:05:46 AM |
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"Jez" <iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMpipex.com> wrote in message
news:CKWdndjpW4OUzJffRVnyjw@pipex.net...
Unpleasant Truth wrote:
I suppose it's no coincidence that someone who defends Zinn's Marxist
anti-American rants also believes the fantasy that Hitler was a
Catholic.
Your the one believing in fantasy. Like all the religious folks.
Thank you for making clear the association between rabid anti-rerligious,
especially anti-Christian, bigotry and hatred for America and its values.
It is precisely because America was founded on Judeo-Christian values - and
still sticks to them (despite the best efforts of the left to destory
them) - that the left hates her so much.
Speaking out against a governments policies is NOT anti-American, idiot.
Sometimes it is - especially when one blindly dismisses all the good America
has done in the world. Zinn crosses way over into that territory. And by
not acknowledging the horrors of communism, Zinn puts himself in the same
moral category as Holocaust deniers.
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: The Taliban Left - anti-Christian bigots want to shut down off campus Bible Class |
11 Feb 2005 12:39:35 AM |
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On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 00:05:46 -0700, "Unpleasant Truth"
<no.one@nowhere.com> wrote:
"Jez" <iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMpipex.com> wrote in message
news:CKWdndjpW4OUzJffRVnyjw@pipex.net...
Unpleasant Truth wrote:
I suppose it's no coincidence that someone who defends Zinn's Marxist
anti-American rants also believes the fantasy that Hitler was a
Catholic.
Your the one believing in fantasy. Like all the religious folks.
Thank you for making clear the association between rabid anti-rerligious,
especially anti-Christian, bigotry and hatred for America and its values.
It is precisely because America was founded on Judeo-Christian values - and
still sticks to them (despite the best efforts of the left to destory
them) - that the left hates her so much.
What Christian value supports democracy or freedom of religion?
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: The Taliban Left - anti-Christian bigots want to shut down off campus Bible Class |
10 Feb 2005 07:20:00 AM |
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Unpleasant Truth wrote:
"Jez" <iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMpipex.com> wrote in message
news:CKWdndjpW4OUzJffRVnyjw@pipex.net..
..
Unpleasant Truth wrote:
I suppose it's no coincidence that someone who defends Zinn's
Marxist
anti-American rants also believes the fantasy that Hitler was a
Catholic.
If you can judge others, as to whether they qualify as
Catholic or Christian or not, then surely you can't
object to us evaluating your own religious credentials,
can you? And on that subject, I wonder if Jesus would
use question-begging epithets as you do here? Would he
say things--with a phony attitude of certainty--that he
hadn't actually shown to be true so that people might
be fooled into thinking he _has_ shown them to be true?
Since doing such is deceptive, I doubt it.
"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men
should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is
the law and the prophets." -- Matthew 7:12
"Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit,
hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind." -- 1 Peter 2:1
Your the one believing in fantasy. Like all the religious folks.
Thank you for making clear the association between rabid
anti-rerligious,
especially anti-Christian, bigotry and hatre d for America and its
values.
"For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with
what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again."
--Matthew 7:2
It is precisely because America was founded on Judeo-Christian values
- and
still sticks to them (despite the best efforts of the left to destory
them) - that the left hates her so much.
I see you make lots of assertions/accusations but I don't see
you advancing any (or very few) arguments supporting them.
Maybe you don't know what an argument is. Let me put your
above in argument form:
America was founded on Judeo-Christian values. My
evidence for this is ___(fill in)___
The Left has done its best to destroy these values, as
shown by this evidence here ___fill in___
The reason, I submit, that they do this is because they hate
America so much. I say this because ____fill in___
You see, anyone can say practically anything they want in this
medium, and many do. What separates the men from the boys
is the ability to _argue_ for ones assertions, instead of merely
asserting them as you chronically do. Perhaps it makes you
feel better--and it certainly is a lot less work--but this feigned
attitude of certainty you project convinces no one and is
just so incredibly overused, boring and hackneyed.
Besides, if you can't offer reasons and evidence for your
conclusions, then what reason do you have for believing
them yourself? Or don't you need reasons--but just the
desire--to believe?
Speaking out against a governments policies is NOT anti-American,
idiot.
Sometimes it is
And sometimes not speaking out is.
- especially when one blindly dismisses all the good America
has done in the world.
Especially when one blindly touts only a one-sided positive
view of history.
Zinn crosses way over into that territory.
Because you say so? Your quote-mining of his words didn't
demonstrate this. The words you put in his mouth would
have--had they been his words.
And by not acknowledging the horrors of communism,
LOL! Why would you expect a "Marxist" to do this? Are
you that naive? (Or perhaps you don't buy your own
propaganda about him being a Marxist?)
Zinn puts himself in the same
moral category as Holocaust deniers.
I see. One doesn't have to actually deny anything, but
simply not acknowledge what you have pre-determined
is politically correct to acknowledge? How convenient
for your foregone conclusions! But how much would
you like to bet that I can put you in the same "moral
category" simply by _your_ failure to acknowledge here
some equally politically correct item of my choosing?
Not hard to do when you make the rules, define the
categories, and appoint yourself judge and jury.
a
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: The Taliban Left - anti-Christian bigots want to shut down offcampus Bible Class |
10 Feb 2005 06:37:32 AM |
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Unpleasant Truth wrote:
"Jez" <iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMpipex.com> wrote in message
news:CKWdndjpW4OUzJffRVnyjw@pipex.net...
Unpleasant Truth wrote:
I suppose it's no coincidence that someone who defends Zinn's Marxist
anti-American rants also believes the fantasy that Hitler was a
Catholic.
Your the one believing in fantasy. Like all the religious folks.
Thank you for making clear the association between rabid anti-rerligious,
especially anti-Christian, bigotry and hatred for America and its values.
It is precisely because America was founded on Judeo-Christian values
So the slaughter of the indigenous people of America was a Christian act ?
Uh-Huh.
- and
still sticks to them (despite the best efforts of the left to destory
them) - that the left hates her so much.
So the illegal invasion of Iraq was a Christian act eh ? Just another
example of Christian compassion at work.
Hmmmmm.
Speaking out against a governments policies is NOT anti-American, idiot.
Sometimes it is - especially when one blindly dismisses all the good America
has done in the world.
What good ?
Zinn crosses way over into that territory. And by
not acknowledging the horrors of communism, Zinn puts himself in the same
moral category as Holocaust deniers.
Nope. He does not. But if his writing did, where would that put your
ignoring of Americas war-crimes ?
--
Jez
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
NFS Underground2, Americas Army And MOH-PA
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| User: "Dan Clore" |
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| Title: Re: The Taliban Left - anti-Christian bigots want to shut down offcampus Bible Class |
12 Feb 2005 03:26:24 AM |
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Unpleasant Truth wrote:
"Jez" <iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMpipex.com> wrote in message
news:CKWdndjpW4OUzJffRVnyjw@pipex.net...
Unpleasant Truth wrote:
Thank you for making clear the association between rabid anti-rerligious,
especially anti-Christian, bigotry and hatred for America and its values.
It is precisely because America was founded on Judeo-Christian values - and
still sticks to them (despite the best efforts of the left to destory
them) - that the left hates her so much.
The Founding Fathers beg to differ. According to the Treaty
of Tripoli, entered into under President George Washington,
"the Government of the United States is not in any sense
founded on the Christian religion".
Get it? -- It was the *law of the land* under the Founding
Fathers that the country was *not* founded on Christianity
in any way.
--
Dan Clore
My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1587154838/thedanclorenecro
Lord Weÿrdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9879/
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the
immarcescible purple of poetry before the color-blind.
-- Clark Ashton Smith, "Epigrams and Apothegms"
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: The Taliban Left - anti-Christian bigots want to shut down off campus Bible Class |
12 Feb 2005 08:17:46 AM |
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On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 01:26:24 -0800, Dan Clore
<clore@columbia-center.org> wrote:
Unpleasant Truth wrote:
"Jez" <iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMpipex.com> wrote in message
news:CKWdndjpW4OUzJffRVnyjw@pipex.net...
Unpleasant Truth wrote:
Thank you for making clear the association between rabid anti-rerligious,
especially anti-Christian, bigotry and hatred for America and its values.
It is precisely because America was founded on Judeo-Christian values - and
still sticks to them (despite the best efforts of the left to destory
them) - that the left hates her so much.
The Founding Fathers beg to differ. According to the Treaty
of Tripoli, entered into under President George Washington,
"the Government of the United States is not in any sense
founded on the Christian religion".
Get it? -- It was the *law of the land* under the Founding
Fathers that the country was *not* founded on Christianity
in any way.
These guys are either liars or stupid - or both. If the Founding
Fathers had intended it to be a Christian country then they would have
said so in the Constitution. But they didn't.
They gave freedom of the individual's conscience over religion. There
could be no establishment of religion, no religious tests for office
etc.
Not "no establishment of a religion". But "no establishment of
religion". The difference is important and obvious. Even though the
fundamentalists ignore it. It includes generic religion not just any
specific one.
And of course to the fundamentalists, "Christian country" means their
vicious, extremist version of Christianity, because the others "aren't
really Christian".
Eventually the rest of the Christians might come to realise this. I
hope it doesn't take living under a fundamentalist Christian Taleban
to bring it home to them.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: The Taliban Left - anti-Christian bigots want to shut down off campus Bible Class |
12 Feb 2005 10:13:11 AM |
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Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Dan Clore <clore@columbia-center.org> wrote:
Unpleasant Truth wrote:
It is precisely because America was founded on Judeo-Christian
values - and still sticks to them (despite the best efforts of the left
to destory them) - that the left hates her so much.
The Founding Fathers beg to differ. According to the Treaty
of Tripoli, entered into under President George Washington,
"the Government of the United States is not in any sense
founded on the Christian religion".
Get it? -- It was the *law of the land* under the Founding
Fathers that the country was *not* founded on Christianity
in any way.
These guys are either liars or stupid - or both. If the Founding
Fathers had intended it to be a Christian country then they would
have said so in the Constitution. But they didn't.
Where is the mention of Christ or Jesus or Christianity found in the
Constitution or even the DOI? No mention at all, is there?
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
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| User: "Dan Clore" |
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| Title: Re: The Taliban Left - anti-Christian bigots want to shut down offcampus Bible Class |
12 Feb 2005 04:59:02 PM |
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Elroy Willis wrote:
Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Dan Clore <clore@columbia-center.org> wrote:
Unpleasant Truth wrote:
It is precisely because America was founded on Judeo-Christian
values - and still sticks to them (despite the best efforts of the left
to destory them) - that the left hates her so much.
The Founding Fathers beg to differ. According to the Treaty
of Tripoli, entered into under President George Washington,
"the Government of the United States is not in any sense
founded on the Christian religion".
Get it? -- It was the *law of the land* under the Founding
Fathers that the country was *not* founded on Christianity
in any way.
These guys are either liars or stupid - or both. If the Founding
Fathers had intended it to be a Christian country then they would
have said so in the Constitution. But they didn't.
Where is the mention of Christ or Jesus or Christianity found in the
Constitution or even the DOI? No mention at all, is there?
The closest thing in the Constitution is the term "Year of
our Lord". The use of that term implies nothing other than
the use of a current dating system. The Declaration of
Independence refers to "the Laws of Nature and Nature's God"
and to the "Creator", but does not identify either with
Jesus or the Christian God, as opposed to (e.g.) the God of
Deism.
--
Dan Clore
My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1587154838/thedanclorenecro
Lord Weÿrdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9879/
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the
immarcescible purple of poetry before the color-blind.
-- Clark Ashton Smith, "Epigrams and Apothegms"
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: The Taliban Left - anti-Christian bigots want to shut down off campus Bible Class |
10 Feb 2005 03:33:32 AM |
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Unpleasant Truth wrote:
"Jez" <iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMpipex.com> wrote in message
news:5tSdnc7o94ZrA5XfRVnyrw@pipex.net...
Unpleasant Truth wrote:
"Jez" <iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMpipex.com> wrote in message
news:Z5ydnXGyK7aVE5rfRVnyuw@pipex.net...
Unpleasant Truth wrote:
The past century has been marked by unprecedented oppression and
mass
murder
by anti-religious regimes and their liberation by Christian
nations,
Are you saying that Germany wasn't a Christian nation?
If they weren't, when did they turn into one? How about
the Nazi's Axis buddy, Italy? Are you saying that Italy
wasn't and isn't 99% Christian?? Who were the non-
Christian nations in WWI? Turkey and who else?
Hitler was a Catholic.
Thank you for proving my point about your intellect, or rather,
lack
thereof.
So your denying Hitler was a Catholic are you ?
Of course. Being a Catholic is a matter of belief and practice, not
a
matter of what your parents might have been.
Are you sure you want to go there? In any event,
what did Hitler do that Moses or Joshua didn't do first?
Was David Koresh a Christian?
He wasn't an atheist, that's for sure.
The idea that Hilter was a Christian of any sort is a lunatic rant of
anti-Christian fanatics as evidenced in
http://www.evilbible.com/hitler_was_christian.htm
In this countr y, many Catholics believe participating and even
facilitating
abortion is sufficient to exclude a person from the Eucharist, much
less
committing mass murder.
Then it might be tough for you to explain why Hitler
was never excommunicated then. Especially since CC
organizations like the Catholic Family Association
of America want to excommunicate any "elected or
appointed official" who merely "promotes" (agrees
with)-- same-sex unions.
So, unless you want to argue that Catholic teaching promotes
occultism,
murdering Catholic priests and persecuting the church, and believing
yourself to be the Messiah, I suggest you abandon your absurd attempt
to
link Hitler with Catholicism.
The Catholic Church now counts among its members at least three
dozen genocide suspects. Some of them are already under arrest and due
to come before the courts. Here are a few:
* Fr. Thadd=E9e Rusingizandekwe, a former military chaplain, was a
teacher at the Grand Seminary in Nyakibanda, Butare, but was at home
in Gikongoro when the genocide began. He was arrested in September
1994. On 14 April 1994, he was among the men who led a major massacre
at the Catholic Parish of Kibeho in Gikongoro, accompanied by his
father, T=E9l=E9sphore Mugara. Armed with a gun, he personally shot into
the crowd and threw grenades, after which the wounded and the
survivors were set on fire inside the church. He then proceeded to
Gishamvu in Butare, where he taught militiamen, responsible for
killing thousands of Tutsis, how to shoot. When, in June 1994, your
representative, Cardinal Roger Etchegaray visited Butare, Fr.
Rusingizandekwe greeted him carrying a gun, while also wearing a
cross.
* Fr. Athanase Seromba is accused of having paid to have 2,000
Tutsis crushed to death with Caterpillar bulldozers at the Parish of
Nyange in Kibuye, and of having personally supervised the massacre. He
is now resident in Italy where he is studying.
* Fr. Hormisdas Nsengiyumva, the rector of Christ Roi College in
Nyanza, Butare, was, according to survivors and many residents of
Nyanza, one of the three men who organised and implemented the
genocide there. He helped to mobilise the militia in Nyanza=98which
included his own brother=98providing them with weapons, transport and
encouragement, and accompanying them during their killing sprees. He
himself was often armed. Many Tutsis living near the college were
murdered at the roadblock he set up at the entrance of the college,
manned by his militiamen. He is widely accused of being behind the
murder of four Tutsi priests killed in Nyanza=98Fr. Innocent Nyangezi,
* Fr. Mathieu Ngirumpatse, Fr. Jean-Bosco Yirirwahandi and Fr.
Callixte Uwitonze=98telling the militiamen that they were hiding in a
nearby orphanage. He refused to have them buried and allowed their
bodies to be eaten by dogs and crows. The nearby huge Parish of Nyanza
is one of the few churches in Rwanda where Tutsis did not seek
sanctuary, because, survivors say, they feared Fr. Nsengiyumva would
seek to have them killed. He was evacuated to Italy and is now working
as a priest in Cameroon.
* Fr. Anaclet Sebahinde, alias ,,Shikito, was a military chaplain
based in Butare. He is accused of taking groups of militia up to the
high mountains in the Huye region, looking for refugees hiding in the
forests and ditches. Those who were found were killed. He taught young
men how to throw grenades. He is also accused of having played a major
role in the imprisonment of six priests in Karubanda Prison in Butare.
Three of the priests=98Fr. Pierre Ngoga, Fr. Justin Furaha and Fr.
Firmin Butera=98were murdered at Karubanda at the end of May. The other
three priests=98Fr. Ir=E9n=E9e Nyamwasa, Fr. Canisius Murinzi and Fr.
Aloys
Musoni=98 were transferred to Gikongoro and killed on 13 May.
Militiamen who have returned from the camps identify Fr. Sebahinde as
the man who organised the murder in Gikongoro, in early July 1994, of
two priests and eight Benedictine nuns from Sovu, Butare. We do not
know his country of residence.
* Fr. Joseph Sagahutu served at the Parish of Muganza in Gikongoro.
Throughout the genocide, he worked openly with Damien Biniga, the
sous-pr=E9fet who orchestrated the massacres in that region. On 15
April, he is said to have helped Biniga and his militia kill thousands
of refugees sheltering in his parish. We are not aware of his current
whereabouts.
* Mgr Augustin Misago was the Bishop of Gikongoro during the
genocide, a position he occupies today, despite his conduct in 1994.
The charges against him are extensive; those who are prepared to
testify against him include both priests and nuns. He refused to allow
any refugees to take shelter at the bishopric, claiming that the
bishopric was ,,too small.=89 He sent the Tutsis who sought his help
to
Murambi, where they were massacred in huge numbers. He knew that all
the roads were manned by militiamen hunting Tutsis to kill, yet he
expelled two Tutsi employees of the Parish of Gikongoro hiding in the
bishopric. He asked Madeleine Raffin, a French national and the
director of Caritas Gikongoro, to drive them to Murambi. The militia
dragged them out of her car at a roadblock in Kabeza and murdered them
on the spot. There was no reaction from the bishop. Nor did the bishop
lift a finger to save 90 schoolchildren isolated in the College of
Kibeho who had been threatened and who feared for their lives. On 4
May, the bishop was part of a delegation which spoke with the
children. The youngsters made an emotional appeal to Mgr. Misago for
help. Three days later, 82 of them were massacred. The bishop did not
react, but the few children who survived this massacre are ready to
speak.
http://www.unimondo.org/AfricanRights/html/pope_en.html
Contd.i
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: The Taliban Left - anti-Christian bigots want to shut down off campus Bible Class |
10 Feb 2005 06:17:13 AM |
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Unpleasant Truth wrote:
[...]
"When I
first knew Adolf Hitler in Munich, in 1921 and 1922, he was in
touch with
a circle that believed firmly in the portents of the stars,"
Karl Wieg and,
a former Hitler associate, recalled in an article for
Cosmopolitan in
1939.
So maybe Reagan wasn't a Christian then either
for the same reason, huh?
most
notably the most Christian of them all, the United States.
The US has never liberated anyone.
Ditto.
Name some co untries the US had liberated.
Is this question serious? But then, given the sad state of modern,
leftist
dominated, education, it might well be just out of ignorance.
(From memory, so the list is certain to be incomplete)
Victory in WWII:
France
Belgium
Austria
Denmark
The Nederlands
There were a number of countries in Eastern Europe that we liberated
from
the Nazis,
LOL! You were speaking of the "sad state of modern,
leftist dominated, education"? Hint: "The US made no
significant contribution to the liberation of East Europe
and when the end came the Red Army was in sole
possession of the area east of a line drawn from Stettin
on the Baltic to Trieste on the Adriatic." -- Ambrose,
Stephen E. Rise to Globalism. Fourth Revised ed., New
York: Viking Penguin Inc., 1985. p. 36
but since FDR handed them over to the Soviets,
As you can see, this can't be true since FDR didn't have
possession/occupation of any East European nations. You
previously said words to the effect that Christians are judged
"Christian" by their belief and practice not by what the
religion of their parents were. So what are we to make of this
violation of the 9th Commandment by you?
Their liberation would have to wait a
long 40 years of oppression until Ronald Reagan came along.
Longer than that. He wasn't even in office when Russian
communism took a dump.
Which leads to
the following list:
Victory in the Cold War
Poland
Hungary
Czechoslovakia
Romania
Bulgaria
East Germany
Finland
Your history is very selective. Even the Cato Institurte
gives Gorbachev the major credit: "There were heroes
in all of the Communist countries. ... Perhaps most
important of all was Mikhail Gorbachev."
"He loosened the repressive bonds in the Soviet Union.
Although events spun out of his control, he was
willing to pay that price in order to transform the most
murderous political regime in human history.
"He also kept the Soviet troops in their barracks
throughout Eastern Europe. In the past Moscow had
ruthlessly crushed any attempt by subject peoples to
lessen, let alone eliminate, Communist repression.
"In 1989, however, Gorbachev let Eastern European
leaders stand alone. They could not count on the
loyalty of their own militaries. Nor could they depend
on Soviet aid. In every country but Romania the
ruling elites blinked."
So obviously you can't be relied upon to give a balanced
view.
Nicaragua
El Salvador
You have to be kidding. These, and other Central American
countries have been under the thumb of American-backed
repressive governments for a hundred years--less so only
relatively recently. Perhaps this, too, you didn't know?
And maybe you "forgot:"Reagan broke the law to back
the Contras--who murdered over 30,000 people in their attempt
to overthrow a democratically elected government. Reagan
was the guy who included South Africa and Iraq as being
"on the side of Freedom." While Nancy Reagan was telling
Americans to "just say no" her husband's Contra fund-
raiser, Ollie North, was funding them by selling tons
of cocaine in the US.
You didn't know this either?
In July 1989 Costa Rican President Oscar Arias barred
North from his country on the recommendation of a Costa
Rican congressional commission investigating drug trafficking.
The commission concluded that the contra re-supply network
in Costa Rica which North coordinated from the White
House doubled as a drug smuggling operation.
But that is hardly the only source. There is Celerino
Castillo, the head of the DEA in Central America from
1985 to 1991. This Vietnam vet and one-time police
officer says:
"There was nothing covert going on in El Salvador
regarding Ollie North's operation and narcotics
trafficking. They were running narcotics and weapons
out of Ilopango and with the knowledge of the U.S.
Embassy...We're talking about very large quantities of
cocaine and millions of dollars." The source for this
is Associated Press, June 17, 1994.
The last person Castillo reported Ollie's activities to
was FBI agent Mike Foster, then assigned to Special
Prosecutor Lawrence Walsh. Very interested at first,
Foster later quit taking Castillo's calls. Hmmmmm.
Then there is former DEA agent Michael Levine, author
of "The Big White Lie." He said he poured over North's
diaries and found "hundreds" of references to drug
running operations that have "never been investigated."
One such entry records "DEA. Miami, Pilot went, talked
to (Federico) Vaughan, wanted aircraft to go to Bolivia
to pick up paste, want aircraft to pick up 1500 kilos."
You can even see photocopies of Ollies notebooks on
line! (Let me know if you want to and I'll dig
up the URL.)
Then there is the Senate Committee Report on Drugs, Law
Enforcement and Foreign Policy (The Kerry report). The
report linked North to drug smuggling - through an
address book found aboard a plane seized for drug
running by Customs off the coast of Florida in March,
1987.
Then there are the books: "Out of Control" by Leslie
Cockburn, and "Compromised" by Terry Reed and John
Cummings.
I have more smoking gun evidence of his drug running if
you want it.
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the
reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too
often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version
of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to
be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
That's right - quote Howard Zinn, an apologist for the (atheist
and) most
murderous regime in the history of the world (except, perhaps,
for the
similarly atheistic communist Chinese regime).
Now this is interesting. Let's assume, for sake of
argument, that your totally unsupported personal
attacks here are true. Are you then saying that what
Zinn says here is therefore untrue? You see, that is
what is wrong with ad hominem logical fallacies like
the one you commit here: They are totally irrelevant
to the truth or falsity of the claim of the person you
try to smear.
I bring this up since you mentioned educational deficiencies
and I was wondering if that was the case here. Do you commit
this fallacy here because you are ignorant of the nature of
logical fallacies, or do you commit them knowingly? Or?
You clearly demonstrate, after ridiculing my intellect, that you
have no
intellect whatsoever.
Another irony-meter dies a violent death.
Commenting on Zinn's Marxist work (of fiction), "A People's History
of the
United States" (a communist friendly phrase in itself),
Wow, do you also have a list of 231 communists in the
State Department (that one is probably over your head--don't
worry about it)?
Dan Flynn writes,
http://www.frontpagemag.com/articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=8145
Isn't it odd that you think it is terribly important to
tell us all about Zinn but not about Flynn? We don't
need to worry our little heads about the politics of your source
but we do need to obsess over this Zinn guy for some
unspecified reason?
Through Zinn's looking-glass, Maoist China, site of history's
bloodiest
state-sponsored killings, transforms into "the closest thing, in the
long
history of that ancient country, to a people's government,
independent of
outside control."
Do you have any knowledge of Chinese history? If so why
don't you lose the insinuation and explain what, exactly, do
you disagree with in that sentence fragment you quote of Zinns.
And then please explain how, exactly, it is relevant to the
issues here, other than as a obtuse attempt at guilt by some
tenuous association.
Ok?
The authoritarian Nicaraguan Sandinistas were "welcomed"
by their own people, while the opposition Contras, who backed the
candidate
that triumphed when free elections were finally held, were a
"terrorist
group" that "seemed to have no popular support inside Nicaragua."
Castro's
Cuba, readers learn, "had no bloody record of suppression."
Wow again. Still haven't quoted a single complete sentence
from the dood. Seems you need to put a lot of words around
what he actually said to get the effect you desire. Who is this
Zinn guy anyway and why are you going on and on about him?
Obviously you are not going to allow him to state what his
own position is, are you? Bet you'd scream bloody hell if anyone
presumed to speak for you and tell everyone what your position was.
(They call that "hypocrisy" btw)
Another quote from "A People's History of the United States:"
Class interest has always been obscured behind an all-encompassing
veil
called "the national interest." My own war experience [in World War
II], and
the history of all those military interventions in which the United
States
was engaged, made me sk eptical when I heard people in high political
office
invoke "the national interest" or "national security" to justify
their
policies. It was with such justifications that Truman initiated a
"police
action" in Korea that killed several million people, that Johnson and
Nixon
carried out a war in Indochina in which perhaps 3 million died, that
Reagan
invaded Grenada, Bush attacked Panama and then Iraq, and Clinton
bombed Iraq
again and again.
[Translation: N. Korea was a benevolent, popular government that was
invaded
by the evil U.S. and subverted.
[Translation: since I can find nothing to criticize in his
actual words I will just put my own words in Zinns mouth
to attack (aka: the straw man logical fallacy) and hope that
no one notices]
Similarly, U.S. behavior forced Pol Pot to
murder 2 - 3 million of his own people.
[Hopefully no one will notice that Zinn doesn't even
mention Cambodia or Pol Pot]
If only we had stayed out of S.E.
Asia, Pol Pot would have been able to build the "worker's paradise"
communist regimes were so noted for all over the world.]
What amazes me is that you don't seem the least bit
embarrassed by this overt and obvious false witnessing.
You don't claim to be a Christian, do you?
That is the sort of lies one gets from Marxist historians.
Except--surprise!--they came from _you_ and you ONLY,
and you're no historian, not even a Marxist one. So how
do you explain being the source of "the sort of lies one gets
from Marxist historians"?
They are scum.
My criticism stands.
Not on anything truthful or factual, it seems.
[...]
(Of course I left out all the rest of his insane anti-Americanism,
Perhaps you too started to wonder what the hell your off-
topic rant about this Zinn dood had to do with anything
here? One can only hope.
I suppose it's no coincidence that someone who defends Zinn's Marxist
anti-American rants also believes the fantasy that Hitler was a
Catholic.
This has got to be one of the most drawn out examples
of the ad hominem fallacy I've ever seen.
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| User: "Clay" |
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| Title: Re: The Taliban Left - anti-Christian bigots want to shut down off campus Bible Class |
07 Feb 2005 11:21:33 AM |
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Jez wrote incorrectly:
The past century has been marked by unprecedented oppression and
mass murder
by anti-religious regimes and their liberation by Christian
nations,
Hitler was a Catholic.
most
notably the most Christian of them all, the United States.
The US has never liberated anyone.
I know, for a fact, that the good people living on the island of
Grenada would disagree with your "grasp" of the facts. The late, great
President Reagan saved the lives of a lot of people from the insane
murderers of the "New Jewel Movement" back in the 1980's.
Of course, there are many more examples of this... just wanted to start
you out slowly.
-C-
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: The Taliban Left - anti-Christian bigots want to shut down offcampus Bible Class |
08 Feb 2005 05:15:07 AM |
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Clay wrote:
Jez wrote incorrectly:
The past century has been marked by unprecedented oppression and
mass murder
by anti-religious regimes and their liberation by Christian
nations,
Hitler was a Catholic.
most
notably the most Christian of them all, the United States.
The US has never liberated anyone.
I know, for a fact, that the good people living on the island of
Grenada would disagree with your "grasp" of the facts. The late, great
President Reagan saved the lives of a lot of people from the insane
murderers of the "New Jewel Movement" back in the 1980's.
*****. And there was nothing great about Raygun.
Of course, there are many more examples of this... just wanted to start
you out slowly.
Well, now you've started, name more.
--
Jez
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
NFS Underground2, Americas Army And MOH-PA
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: The Taliban Left - anti-Christian bigots want to shut down off campus Bible Class |
07 Feb 2005 07:10:05 PM |
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On 7 Feb 2005 09:21:33 -0800, "Clay" <clayonline@lycos.com> wrote:
Jez wrote incorrectly:
The past century has been marked by unprecedented oppression and
mass murder
by anti-religious regimes and their liberation by Christian
nations,
Hitler was a Catholic.
most
notably the most Christian of them all, the United States.
The US has never liberated anyone.
I know, for a fact, that the good people living on the island of
Grenada would disagree with your "grasp" of the facts. The late, great
President Reagan saved the lives of a lot of people from the insane
murderers of the "New Jewel Movement" back in the 1980's.
While I won't dispute that US forces were in Grenada by invitation, I
wall certainly dispute your characterization of Reagan as "great." The
man was a doddering old fool who consulted psychics and astrologers on
matters of government, for Christ's sake.
Of course, there are many more examples of this... just wanted to start
you out slowly.
-C-
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| User: "MikeSoja" |
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| Title: Re: The Taliban Left - anti-Christian bigots want to shut down off campus Bible Class |
04 Feb 2005 06:49:39 PM |
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On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 17:56:58 +0000, Jez
<iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMpipex.com> posted:
Why any parent would want their child brain-washed into the Christian
cult is beyond my comprehension.
Why anyone would want to subject themselves to the lies and
incompetence of Socialism is beyong *my* comprehension.
The nice thing about Christian cults is that they mostly want to be
left to themselves.
The bad thing about Socialists is their insistence that everyone
else join in their misery with them. If it weren't for that teensy
failing, no one would pay the idiots any mind at all.
Mike Soja
"I am quite sure no commercial jet hit the Pentagon."
--Commie conspiracy nutjob Brian Zepp Jamieson, May 11, 2004
"That actually makes more sense than the claim that
a large commercial aircraft, moving at cruising
speed at an altitude of ten feet, struck that
building. And the hole's about the right size."
--Commie FatBoy Brian Zepp Jamieson, May 12, 2004
"Barbara Olsen is still dead? Oh, good!"
--subhuman commie scumbag Brian Zepp Jamieson, July 22, 2004
"I don't have a theory as to what happened to Flight 77. But I'm
convinced it did not strike the Pentagon."
--Mental midget and loyal commie Brian Zepp Jamieson, July 26, 2004
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| User: "Don Kresch" |
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| Title: Re: The Taliban Left - anti-Christian bigots want to shut down off campus Bible Class |
04 Feb 2005 08:43:23 PM |
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In alt.atheism on Fri, 04 Feb 2005 19:49:39 -0500, MikeSoja
<msoja9@newsguy.com> let us all know that:
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 17:56:58 +0000, Jez
<iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMpipex.com> posted:
Why any parent would want their child brain-washed into the Christian
cult is beyond my comprehension.
Why anyone would want to subject themselves to the lies and
incompetence of Socialism is beyong *my* comprehension.
And when you combine the two, it's horribly bad.
The nice thing about Christian cults is that they mostly want to be
left to themselves.
Actually, it was a group of busybody protestant socialists who
started the public school movement in order to protestantize the
catholics.
Don
---
aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man"
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: The Taliban Left - anti-Christian bigots want to shut down offcampus Bible Class |
05 Feb 2005 08:29:28 AM |
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MikeSoja wrote:
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 17:56:58 +0000, Jez
<iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMpipex.com> posted:
Why any parent would want their child brain-washed into the Christian
cult is beyond my comprehension.
Why anyone would want to subject themselves to the lies and
incompetence of Socialism is beyong *my* comprehension.
Who said anything about Socialism ??
The nice thing about Christian cults is that they mostly want to be
left to themselves.
Hence the Crusades eh ?
--
Jez
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
NFS Underground2, Americas Army And MOH-PA
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| User: "RainLover" |
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| Title: Re: The Taliban Left - anti-Christian bigots want to shut down off campus Bible Class |
04 Feb 2005 08:22:58 PM |
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On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 19:49:39 -0500, MikeSoja <msoja9@newsguy.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 17:56:58 +0000, Jez
<iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMpipex. | | |
