| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"J Young" |
| Date: |
14 Mar 2005 02:51:23 PM |
| Object: |
The Twilight of Atheism |
The article is a little long but definitely worth reading.
"This article first appeared in March 2005 issue of Christianity Today.
Used by permission of Christianity Today International, Carol Stream,
IL 60188."
The Twilight of Atheism
Why this once exciting and 'liberating' philosophy failed to capture
the world's imagination.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2005/003/21.36.html
by Alister McGrath
The celebration of Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee in June 1897 marked
the high point of British imperial history. It was a supreme moment of
national self-confidence and congratulation. The British had created an
empire on which the sun never set, and much of its colorful diversity
was on display in the streets of London that summer.
But Earth's proud empires fade away. The same process of growth and
decay can be seen in the empires of the mind. There comes a point when
their attraction pales and their credibility falters. To wit: Atheism
is in trouble. Its future seems increasingly to lie in the private
beliefs of individuals rather than in the great public domain it once
regarded as its natural habitat.
.
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| User: "Milan" |
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| Title: Re: The Twilight of Atheism |
14 Mar 2005 06:40:10 PM |
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"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1110833483.460587.275720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
The article is a little long but definitely worth reading.
"This article first appeared in March 2005 issue of Christianity Today.
Used by permission of Christianity Today International, Carol Stream,
IL 60188."
The Twilight of Atheism
Why this once exciting and 'liberating' philosophy failed to capture
the world's imagination.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2005/003/21.36.html
by Alister McGrath
The celebration of Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee in June 1897 marked
the high point of British imperial history. It was a supreme moment of
national self-confidence and congratulation. The British had created an
empire on which the sun never set, and much of its colorful diversity
was on display in the streets of London that summer.
But Earth's proud empires fade away. The same process of growth and
decay can be seen in the empires of the mind. There comes a point when
their attraction pales and their credibility falters. To wit: Atheism
is in trouble. Its future seems increasingly to lie in the private
beliefs of individuals rather than in the great public domain it once
regarded as its natural habitat.
McGrath is a moron. Nothing he has written is worth reading.
regards
Milan
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| User: "Sanders Kaufman" |
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| Title: Re: The Twilight of Atheism |
14 Mar 2005 05:03:24 PM |
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"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1110833483.460587.275720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
The article is a little long but definitely worth reading.
"This article first appeared in March 2005 issue of Christianity Today.
Used by permission of Christianity Today International, Carol Stream,
IL 60188."
The Twilight of Atheism
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2005/003/21.36.html
That was published to counter the *truth*.
This is the twilight of Religious Fanatacism... and the Dawn of the Age of
Aquarius.
.
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| User: "Who Cares!" |
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| Title: Re: The Twilight of Atheism |
14 Mar 2005 08:16:29 PM |
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"Sanders Kaufman" <usenet@kaufman.net> wrote in message
news:0LoZd.12325$WK2.11916@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
| "J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in message
| news:1110833483.460587.275720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
| > The article is a little long but definitely worth reading.
| >
| > "This article first appeared in March 2005 issue of Christianity
Today.
| > Used by permission of Christianity Today International, Carol
Stream,
| > IL 60188."
| >
| > The Twilight of Atheism
| >
| > http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2005/003/21.36.html
|
| That was published to counter the *truth*.
| This is the twilight of Religious Fanatacism... and the Dawn of the
Age of
| Aquarius.
I had an aquarium once.
But then again,
Who Cares!
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| User: "Mark Crispin" |
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| Title: Re: The Twilight of Atheism |
15 Mar 2005 02:40:54 PM |
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I find it fascinating how Christians are so fervent in their desire to
define Atheism. They erect a strawman, and then give praise to the fact
that it is made of straw.
Its future seems increasingly to lie in the private
beliefs of individuals rather than in the great public domain it once
regarded as its natural habitat.
There's a lot more to this statement than it appears on the surface.
It is a ghastly concession that they can't do anything about the private
(un)beliefs of individuals any more. The law no longer permits them to
stone unbelievers to death or compell oaths to their deity; and increasing
numbers of individuals are using their freedom to opt out.
To soften the blow, they refer once again to a strawman -- an image of an
Evil Atheistic Threat that "regarded the great public domain as its
natural habitat." Toss in a few quotations from Marxist dogma, and it's
another great victory for the Church! The boot stomps on the heretic's
face forever.
In any society, some percentage of the population has a deep need to have
a Hairy Thunderer to bow down to; some percentage sees no such need; and
the remainder don't particularly care. The actual numbers vary; and very
often the state fails miserably in its attempts to influence the numbers.
None of these three sets will ever exterminate the other; and in many
loving families you can find individuals from all three.
The whole exercise seems to have no purpose other than to extract money
for the benefit of those who profit from continuing the battle.
-- Mark --
http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
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| User: "Brian E. Clark" |
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| Title: Re: The Twilight of Atheism |
14 Mar 2005 03:08:15 PM |
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In article <1110833483.460587.275720
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, J Young said...
The article is a little long but definitely worth reading.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2005/003/21.36.html
by Alister McGrath
Pete and Repeat were sitting a boat. Pete fell out. Who was
left?
--
-----------
Brian E. Clark
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| User: "Jason Gastrich" |
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| Title: Re: The Twilight of Atheism |
14 Mar 2005 04:23:35 PM |
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J Young wrote:
The article is a little long but definitely worth reading.
"This article first appeared in March 2005 issue of Christianity
Today. Used by permission of Christianity Today International, Carol
Stream, IL 60188."
The Twilight of Atheism
Why this once exciting and 'liberating' philosophy failed to capture
the world's imagination.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2005/003/21.36.html
by Alister McGrath
The celebration of Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee in June 1897
marked the high point of British imperial history. It was a supreme
moment of national self-confidence and congratulation. The British
had created an empire on which the sun never set, and much of its
colorful diversity was on display in the streets of London that
summer.
But Earth's proud empires fade away. The same process of growth and
decay can be seen in the empires of the mind. There comes a point when
their attraction pales and their credibility falters. To wit: Atheism
is in trouble. Its future seems increasingly to lie in the private
beliefs of individuals rather than in the great public domain it once
regarded as its natural habitat.
And this is exactly what the Bible predicts. The Bible doesn't predict
end-times, rampant unbelief. It predicts end times, rampant false religion;
just like we have today with the increase in Islam, Mormonism, and every
other doctrine and "way" that contradicts Christianity.
God bless,
Jason
--
--------
Jesus Christ Saves Ministries
http://www.jcsm.org
Over 90,000 web pages!
John 8:36 reads, "Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be
free indeed."
Galatians 5:1 reads, "Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which
Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of
bondage."
ICQ#: 20731140 . AIM: MrJasonGastrich . YIM: Jesus_Saved_Jason
.
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| User: "Tukla Ratte" |
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| Title: Re: The Twilight of Atheism |
15 Mar 2005 10:41:14 AM |
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Jason Gastrich wrote:
< snip >
And this is exactly what the Bible predicts. The Bible doesn't predict
end-times, rampant unbelief. It predicts end times, rampant false religion;
just like we have today with the increase in Islam, Mormonism, and every
other doctrine and "way" that contradicts Christianity.
*Which* Christianity? There are so many sects to choose from, and most
people invent their own personal version, anyway.
--
Tukla, Eater of Theists, Squeaker of Chew Toys
Official Mascot of Alt.Atheism, aa 1347
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| User: "Rev. Karl E. Taylor" |
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| Title: Re: The Twilight of Atheism |
15 Mar 2005 06:34:58 PM |
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Jason Gastrich wrote:
J Young wrote:
The article is a little long but definitely worth reading.
"This article first appeared in March 2005 issue of Christianity
Today. Used by permission of Christianity Today International, Carol
Stream, IL 60188."
The Twilight of Atheism
Why this once exciting and 'liberating' philosophy failed to capture
the world's imagination.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2005/003/21.36.html
by Alister McGrath
The celebration of Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee in June 1897
marked the high point of British imperial history. It was a supreme
moment of national self-confidence and congratulation. The British
had created an empire on which the sun never set, and much of its
colorful diversity was on display in the streets of London that
summer.
But Earth's proud empires fade away. The same process of growth and
decay can be seen in the empires of the mind. There comes a point when
their attraction pales and their credibility falters. To wit: Atheism
is in trouble. Its future seems increasingly to lie in the private
beliefs of individuals rather than in the great public domain it once
regarded as its natural habitat.
And this is exactly what the Bible predicts. The Bible doesn't predict
end-times, rampant unbelief. It predicts end times, rampant false religion;
just like we have today with the increase in Islam, Mormonism, and every
other doctrine and "way" that contradicts Christianity.
God bless,
Jason
Yeah, to bad the actual numbers don't support that.
Oh, and "Doctor", Barna Research are a like minded group of xtians. And
they find atheism GROWING, while your numbers, keep dropping.
Thank you for doing such a fine job of turning people to our way of
thinking. We do appreciate it.
--
There are none more ignorant and useless,
than they that seek answers on their knees,
with their eyes closed.
____________________________________________________________________
Rev. Karl E. Taylor
A.A #1143 PLONKED by Bob
Apostle of Dr. Lao EAC: Virgin Conversion Unit Director
____________________________________________________________________
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| User: "Tim Crowley" |
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| Title: Re: The Twilight of Atheism |
14 Mar 2005 04:35:29 PM |
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Jason Gastrich wrote:
J Young wrote:
The article is a little long but definitely worth reading.
"This article first appeared in March 2005 issue of Christianity
Today. Used by permission of Christianity Today International,
Carol
Stream, IL 60188."
The Twilight of Atheism
Why this once exciting and 'liberating' philosophy failed to
capture
the world's imagination.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2005/003/21.36.html
by Alister McGrath
The celebration of Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee in June 1897
marked the high point of British imperial history. It was a supreme
moment of national self-confidence and congratulation. The British
had created an empire on which the sun never set, and much of its
colorful diversity was on display in the streets of London that
summer.
But Earth's proud empires fade away. The same process of growth and
decay can be seen in the empires of the mind. There comes a point
when
their attraction pales and their credibility falters. To wit:
Atheism
is in trouble. Its future seems increasingly to lie in the private
beliefs of individuals rather than in the great public domain it
once
regarded as its natural habitat.
And this is exactly what the Bible predicts. The Bible doesn't
predict
end-times, rampant unbelief. It predicts end times, rampant false
religion;
just like we have today with the increase in Islam, Mormonism, and
every
other doctrine and "way" that contradicts Christianity.
Except, of course - Islam and Mormonism do not contradict Christianity.
They may contridcict your specific little hate cult but not
Christianity.
.
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: The Twilight of Atheism |
15 Mar 2005 12:30:59 AM |
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"Tim Crowley" <timmyturmoil@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1110839729.128561.280120@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Jason Gastrich wrote:
And this is exactly what the Bible predicts. The Bible doesn't
predict
end-times, rampant unbelief. It predicts end times, rampant false
religion;
just like we have today with the increase in Islam, Mormonism, and
every
other doctrine and "way" that contradicts Christianity.
Except, of course - Islam and Mormonism do not contradict Christianity.
Depends on what you mean by "contradict".
Islam (for example) says that Jesus was not G-d or the son of G-d.
Susan
They may contridcict your specific little hate cult but not
Christianity.
.
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| User: "Jeff Welch" |
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| Title: Re: The Twilight of Atheism |
15 Mar 2005 11:51:13 AM |
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"Susan Cohen" <flavia13@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:DivZd.2712$UV2.2114@trnddc04...
Islam (for example) says that Jesus was not G-d or the son of G-d.
What's "G-d"?
-Jeff
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| User: "Brian E. Clark" |
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| Title: Re: The Twilight of Atheism |
15 Mar 2005 12:40:04 PM |
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In article <1110909071.33f45b115643a7467a92cafb8ca70170
@meganetnews2>, Jeff Welch said...
Islam (for example) says that Jesus was not G-d or the son of G-d.
What's "G-d"?
It's Ged, the hero of LeGuin's _A Wizard of Earthsea_.
--
-----------
Brian E. Clark
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| User: "Gregory Gadow" |
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| Title: Re: The Twilight of Atheism |
15 Mar 2005 12:14:46 PM |
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Jeff Welch wrote:
"Susan Cohen" <flavia13@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:DivZd.2712$UV2.2114@trnddc04...
Islam (for example) says that Jesus was not G-d or the son of G-d.
What's "G-d"?
Orthodox Jews consider it disrepectful, if not sacrilege, to write any
name or title of their god in such a fashion that it might be erased,
defaced or otherwise spindled, folded or mutilated. As such, names and
titles are written out in full only in the context of religious
writings, with abbreviated forms being used otherwise. While there is
still debate in rabbinic circles whether the transient nature of web
postings counts as erasing, most observant Jews will follow established
tradition when posting to the net.
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"[T]hose who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves;
and, under the rule of a just God, cannot long retain it."
-- Pres. George W. Bush, Hypocrite, his inauguration speech, 2005
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| User: "Tim Crowley" |
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| Title: Re: The Twilight of Atheism |
15 Mar 2005 08:39:06 AM |
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Susan Cohen wrote:
"Tim Crowley" <timmyturmoil@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1110839729.128561.280120@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Jason Gastrich wrote:
And this is exactly what the Bible predicts. The Bible doesn't
predict
end-times, rampant unbelief. It predicts end times, rampant false
religion;
just like we have today with the increase in Islam, Mormonism, and
every
other doctrine and "way" that contradicts Christianity.
Except, of course - Islam and Mormonism do not contradict
Christianity.
Depends on what you mean by "contradict".
Islam (for example) says that Jesus was not G-d or the son of G-d.
Really, please do show us exactly where it says this. I wasn't aware
that you were an Islamic expert. I'll wait for your cites.
Susan
They may contridcict your specific little hate cult but not
Christianity.
.
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| User: "Clave" |
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| Title: Re: The Twilight of Atheism |
15 Mar 2005 03:17:25 PM |
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"Tim Crowley" <timmyturmoil@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1110897546.640266.236570@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Susan Cohen wrote:
"Tim Crowley" <timmyturmoil@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1110839729.128561.280120@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Jason Gastrich wrote:
And this is exactly what the Bible predicts. The Bible doesn't
predict
end-times, rampant unbelief. It predicts end times, rampant false
religion;
just like we have today with the increase in Islam, Mormonism, and
every
other doctrine and "way" that contradicts Christianity.
Except, of course - Islam and Mormonism do not contradict
Christianity.
Google on "mormonism vs christianity" -- there are quite a number of
contradictions, not the least of which is the LDS' rejection of monotheism.
Jim
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| User: "Brian E. Clark" |
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| Title: Re: The Twilight of Atheism |
15 Mar 2005 12:23:36 PM |
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In article <1110897546.640266.236570
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, Tim Crowley said...
Really, please do show us exactly where it says this.
I'm pretty sura I read it in the Koran. :)
5:79 The Messiah the son of Mary is only a prophet: prophets
before him have passed away; and his mother was a confessor;
they used both to eat food.- See how we explain to them the
signs, yet see how they turn aside!
--
-----------
Brian E. Clark
.
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| User: "Ash" |
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| Title: Re: The Twilight of Atheism |
15 Mar 2005 09:30:13 AM |
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Tim Crowley wrote:
Susan Cohen wrote:
"Tim Crowley" <timmyturmoil@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1110839729.128561.280120@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Jason Gastrich wrote:
And this is exactly what the Bible predicts. The Bible doesn't
predict
end-times, rampant unbelief. It predicts end times, rampant false
religion;
just like we have today with the increase in Islam, Mormonism, and
every
other doctrine and "way" that contradicts Christianity.
Except, of course - Islam and Mormonism do not contradict
Christianity.
Depends on what you mean by "contradict".
Islam (for example) says that Jesus was not G-d or the son of G-d.
Really, please do show us exactly where it says this. I wasn't aware
that you were an Islamic expert. I'll wait for your cites.
This is what Islam states. It is quite specific about it and strongly
condemns Christianity for raising Jesus to the level of God
The immunity
[9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians
say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their
mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may
Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!
The Women
[4.171] O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your
religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth;
the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only an apostle of Allah and His Word
which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore
in Allah and His apostles, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for
you; Allah is only one God; far be It from His glory that He should have
a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His,
and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.
The Dinner Table
[5.17] Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely, Allah-- He is the
Messiah, son of Marium. Say: Who then could control anything as against
Allah when He wished to destroy the Messiah son of Marium and his
mother and all those on the earth? And Allah's is the kingdom of the
heavens and the earth and what is between them; He creates what He
pleases; and Allah has power over all things,
.
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| User: "Tim Crowley" |
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| Title: Re: The Twilight of Atheism |
15 Mar 2005 12:21:35 PM |
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Ash wrote:
Tim Crowley wrote:
Susan Cohen wrote:
"Tim Crowley" <timmyturmoil@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1110839729.128561.280120@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Jason Gastrich wrote:
And this is exactly what the Bible predicts. The Bible doesn't
predict
end-times, rampant unbelief. It predicts end times, rampant
false
religion;
just like we have today with the increase in Islam, Mormonism,
and
every
other doctrine and "way" that contradicts Christianity.
Except, of course - Islam and Mormonism do not contradict
Christianity.
Depends on what you mean by "contradict".
Islam (for example) says that Jesus was not G-d or the son of G-d.
Really, please do show us exactly where it says this. I wasn't
aware
that you were an Islamic expert. I'll wait for your cites.
This is what Islam states. It is quite specific about it and
strongly
condemns Christianity for raising Jesus to the level of God
The immunity
[9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the
Christians
say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their
mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may
Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!
The Women
[4.171] O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your
religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the
truth;
the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only an apostle of Allah and His
Word
which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe
therefore
in Allah and His apostles, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better
for
you; Allah is only one God; far be It from His glory that He should
have
a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is
His,
and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.
The Dinner Table
[5.17] Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely, Allah-- He is the
Messiah, son of Marium. Say: Who then could control anything as
against
Allah when He wished to destroy the Messiah son of Marium and his
mother and all those on the earth? And Allah's is the kingdom of the
heavens and the earth and what is between them; He creates what He
pleases; and Allah has power over all things,
And thanks to you too, Ash. I stand corrected. It's what I get for
posting about things I don't have a full understanding of.
.
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: The Twilight of Atheism |
15 Mar 2005 10:28:45 AM |
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Wow, thanks for saving me the trouble.
Susan
"Ash" <ashamanic@winterfell73.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:d16v1s$qaa$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
Tim Crowley wrote:
Susan Cohen wrote:
"Tim Crowley" <timmyturmoil@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1110839729.128561.280120@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Jason Gastrich wrote:
And this is exactly what the Bible predicts. The Bible doesn't
predict
end-times, rampant unbelief. It predicts end times, rampant false
religion;
just like we have today with the increase in Islam, Mormonism, and
every
other doctrine and "way" that contradicts Christianity.
Except, of course - Islam and Mormonism do not contradict
Christianity.
Depends on what you mean by "contradict".
Islam (for example) says that Jesus was not G-d or the son of G-d.
Really, please do show us exactly where it says this. I wasn't aware
that you were an Islamic expert. I'll wait for your cites.
This is what Islam states. It is quite specific about it and strongly
condemns Christianity for raising Jesus to the level of God
The immunity
[9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians
say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths;
they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy
them; how they are turned away!
The Women
[4.171] O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your
religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth;
the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only an apostle of Allah and His Word
which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore
in Allah and His apostles, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for
you; Allah is only one God; far be It from His glory that He should have a
son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and
Allah is sufficient for a Protector.
The Dinner Table
[5.17] Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely, Allah-- He is the
Messiah, son of Marium. Say: Who then could control anything as against
Allah when He wished to destroy the Messiah son of Marium and his mother
and all those on the earth? And Allah's is the kingdom of the heavens and
the earth and what is between them; He creates what He pleases; and Allah
has power over all things,
.
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| User: "Sanders Kaufman" |
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| Title: Re: The Twilight of Atheism |
15 Mar 2005 01:16:15 PM |
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That was very decent of Tim to admit he was wrong. ;)
"Susan Cohen" <flavia13@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:13EZd.2783$uw6.378@trnddc06...
Wow, thanks for saving me the trouble.
Susan
"Ash" <ashamanic@winterfell73.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:d16v1s$qaa$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
Tim Crowley wrote:
Susan Cohen wrote:
"Tim Crowley" <timmyturmoil@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1110839729.128561.280120@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Jason Gastrich wrote:
And this is exactly what the Bible predicts. The Bible doesn't
predict
end-times, rampant unbelief. It predicts end times, rampant false
religion;
just like we have today with the increase in Islam, Mormonism, and
every
other doctrine and "way" that contradicts Christianity.
Except, of course - Islam and Mormonism do not contradict
Christianity.
Depends on what you mean by "contradict".
Islam (for example) says that Jesus was not G-d or the son of G-d.
Really, please do show us exactly where it says this. I wasn't aware
that you were an Islamic expert. I'll wait for your cites.
This is what Islam states. It is quite specific about it and strongly
condemns Christianity for raising Jesus to the level of God
The immunity
[9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians
say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their
mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may
Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!
The Women
[4.171] O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your
religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth;
the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only an apostle of Allah and His Word
which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore
in Allah and His apostles, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for
you; Allah is only one God; far be It from His glory that He should have
a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His,
and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.
The Dinner Table
[5.17] Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely, Allah-- He is the
Messiah, son of Marium. Say: Who then could control anything as against
Allah when He wished to destroy the Messiah son of Marium and his mother
and all those on the earth? And Allah's is the kingdom of the heavens and
the earth and what is between them; He creates what He pleases; and Allah
has power over all things,
.
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: The Twilight of Atheism |
15 Mar 2005 09:30:10 PM |
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"Sanders Kaufman" <usenet@kaufman.net> wrote in message
news:3wGZd.19689$YD4.14252@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
That was very decent of Tim to admit he was wrong. ;)
And in so polite a fashion - I am impressed.
Susan
"Susan Cohen" <flavia13@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:13EZd.2783$uw6.378@trnddc06...
Wow, thanks for saving me the trouble.
Susan
"Ash" <ashamanic@winterfell73.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:d16v1s$qaa$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
Tim Crowley wrote:
Susan Cohen wrote:
"Tim Crowley" <timmyturmoil@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1110839729.128561.280120@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Jason Gastrich wrote:
And this is exactly what the Bible predicts. The Bible doesn't
predict
end-times, rampant unbelief. It predicts end times, rampant false
religion;
just like we have today with the increase in Islam, Mormonism, and
every
other doctrine and "way" that contradicts Christianity.
Except, of course - Islam and Mormonism do not contradict
Christianity.
Depends on what you mean by "contradict".
Islam (for example) says that Jesus was not G-d or the son of G-d.
Really, please do show us exactly where it says this. I wasn't aware
that you were an Islamic expert. I'll wait for your cites.
This is what Islam states. It is quite specific about it and strongly
condemns Christianity for raising Jesus to the level of God
The immunity
[9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians
say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their
mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may
Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!
The Women
[4.171] O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your
religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth;
the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only an apostle of Allah and His Word
which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore
in Allah and His apostles, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for
you; Allah is only one God; far be It from His glory that He should have
a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His,
and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.
The Dinner Table
[5.17] Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely, Allah-- He is the
Messiah, son of Marium. Say: Who then could control anything as against
Allah when He wished to destroy the Messiah son of Marium and his
mother and all those on the earth? And Allah's is the kingdom of the
heavens and the earth and what is between them; He creates what He
pleases; and Allah has power over all things,
.
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| User: "Gregory Gadow" |
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| Title: Re: The Twilight of Atheism |
15 Mar 2005 10:20:00 AM |
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Tim Crowley wrote:
Susan Cohen wrote:
"Tim Crowley" <timmyturmoil@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1110839729.128561.280120@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Jason Gastrich wrote:
And this is exactly what the Bible predicts. The Bible doesn't
predict
end-times, rampant unbelief. It predicts end times, rampant false
religion;
just like we have today with the increase in Islam, Mormonism, and
every
other doctrine and "way" that contradicts Christianity.
Except, of course - Islam and Mormonism do not contradict
Christianity.
Depends on what you mean by "contradict".
Islam (for example) says that Jesus was not G-d or the son of G-d.
Really, please do show us exactly where it says this. I wasn't aware
that you were an Islamic expert. I'll wait for your cites.
They say: "the most gracious has betaken a son!" Indeed ye have put forth a
thing most monstrous! At it in the skies are about to burst, the earth to
split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin, that they
attributed a son to the Most Gracious, for it is not consonant with the
majesty of the Most Gracious that he should beget a son. (Sura 5:88-92).
In Arabia at the time of Mohammad, the predominant Christianity was a form
of Nestorianism. This "heresy" forms the basis for all mention of Jesus in
the Quran.
The Nestorians taught that Jesus had two entirely separate and distinct
natures, one human and one divine. Mary gave birth only to the human
nature, thus they rejected her title of "Theotokos" (lit. "Bearer of God")
as unBiblical and heretical. Arabian Nestorianism also held that Jesus
never went to the cross; either in penalty for his betrayal or in response
to his remorseful plea to undo his betrayal, God caused Judas to take on
the appearance of Jesus and it was he who was executed. Both of these
doctrines are found in the Quran and Hadith.
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"[T]hose who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves;
and, under the rule of a just God, cannot long retain it."
-- Pres. George W. Bush, Hypocrite, his inauguration speech, 2005
.
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: The Twilight of Atheism |
15 Mar 2005 10:29:23 AM |
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And thank you for saving me the trouble as well!
Susan
"Gregory Gadow" <techbear@serv.net> wrote in message
news:42370B30.E9BA3581@serv.net...
Tim Crowley wrote:
Susan Cohen wrote:
"Tim Crowley" <timmyturmoil@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1110839729.128561.280120@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Jason Gastrich wrote:
And this is exactly what the Bible predicts. The Bible doesn't
predict
end-times, rampant unbelief. It predicts end times, rampant false
religion;
just like we have today with the increase in Islam, Mormonism, and
every
other doctrine and "way" that contradicts Christianity.
Except, of course - Islam and Mormonism do not contradict
Christianity.
Depends on what you mean by "contradict".
Islam (for example) says that Jesus was not G-d or the son of G-d.
Really, please do show us exactly where it says this. I wasn't aware
that you were an Islamic expert. I'll wait for your cites.
They say: "the most gracious has betaken a son!" Indeed ye have put forth
a
thing most monstrous! At it in the skies are about to burst, the earth to
split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin, that they
attributed a son to the Most Gracious, for it is not consonant with the
majesty of the Most Gracious that he should beget a son. (Sura 5:88-92).
In Arabia at the time of Mohammad, the predominant Christianity was a form
of Nestorianism. This "heresy" forms the basis for all mention of Jesus
in
the Quran.
The Nestorians taught that Jesus had two entirely separate and distinct
natures, one human and one divine. Mary gave birth only to the human
nature, thus they rejected her title of "Theotokos" (lit. "Bearer of God")
as unBiblical and heretical. Arabian Nestorianism also held that Jesus
never went to the cross; either in penalty for his betrayal or in response
to his remorseful plea to undo his betrayal, God caused Judas to take on
the appearance of Jesus and it was he who was executed. Both of these
doctrines are found in the Quran and Hadith.
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"[T]hose who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves;
and, under the rule of a just God, cannot long retain it."
-- Pres. George W. Bush, Hypocrite, his inauguration speech, 2005
.
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| User: "Tim Crowley" |
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| Title: Re: The Twilight of Atheism |
15 Mar 2005 12:20:04 PM |
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Gregory Gadow wrote:
Tim Crowley wrote:
Susan Cohen wrote:
"Tim Crowley" <timmyturmoil@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1110839729.128561.280120@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Jason Gastrich wrote:
And this is exactly what the Bible predicts. The Bible
doesn't
predict
end-times, rampant unbelief. It predicts end times, rampant
false
religion;
just like we have today with the increase in Islam, Mormonism,
and
every
other doctrine and "way" that contradicts Christianity.
Except, of course - Islam and Mormonism do not contradict
Christianity.
Depends on what you mean by "contradict".
Islam (for example) says that Jesus was not G-d or the son of
G-d.
Really, please do show us exactly where it says this. I wasn't
aware
that you were an Islamic expert. I'll wait for your cites.
They say: "the most gracious has betaken a son!" Indeed ye have put
forth a
thing most monstrous! At it in the skies are about to burst, the
earth to
split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin, that
they
attributed a son to the Most Gracious, for it is not consonant with
the
majesty of the Most Gracious that he should beget a son. (Sura
5:88-92).
In Arabia at the time of Mohammad, the predominant Christianity was a
form
of Nestorianism. This "heresy" forms the basis for all mention of
Jesus in
the Quran.
The Nestorians taught that Jesus had two entirely separate and
distinct
natures, one human and one divine. Mary gave birth only to the human
nature, thus they rejected her title of "Theotokos" (lit. "Bearer of
God")
as unBiblical and heretical. Arabian Nestorianism also held that
Jesus
never went to the cross; either in penalty for his betrayal or in
response
to his remorseful plea to undo his betrayal, God caused Judas to take
on
the appearance of Jesus and it was he who was executed. Both of these
doctrines are found in the Quran and Hadith.
Thanks Gregory!
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"[T]hose who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves;
and, under the rule of a just God, cannot long retain it."
-- Pres. George W. Bush, Hypocrite, his inauguration speech, 2005
.
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| User: "Jason Gastrich" |
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| Title: Re: The Twilight of Atheism |
15 Mar 2005 12:25:58 PM |
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Tim Crowley wrote:
Susan Cohen wrote:
"Tim Crowley" <timmyturmoil@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1110839729.128561.280120@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Jason Gastrich wrote:
And this is exactly what the Bible predicts. The Bible doesn't
predict end-times, rampant unbelief. It predicts end times,
rampant false religion; just like we have today with the increase
in Islam, Mormonism, and every other doctrine and "way" that
contradicts Christianity.
Except, of course - Islam and Mormonism do not contradict
Christianity.
Depends on what you mean by "contradict".
Islam (for example) says that Jesus was not G-d or the son of G-d.
Really, please do show us exactly where it says this. I wasn't aware
that you were an Islamic expert. I'll wait for your cites.
I wouldn't refer to myself as an Islamic expert. However, I study their
religion. Anyone who studies Islam and Christianity should be able to tell
that there are stark differences.
See some of my research here: http://koran.jcsm.org
Regards,
Jason
Susan
They may contridcict your specific little hate cult but not
Christianity.
--
--------
Jesus Christ Saves Ministries
http://www.jcsm.org
Over 90,000 web pages!
John 8:36 reads, "Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be
free indeed."
Galatians 5:1 reads, "Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which
Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of
bondage."
ICQ#: 20731140 . AIM: MrJasonGastrich . YIM: Jesus_Saved_Jason
.
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| User: "Don Kresch" |
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| Title: Re: The Twilight of Atheism |
15 Mar 2005 06:39:32 PM |
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In alt.atheism on Tue, 15 Mar 2005 18:25:58 GMT, "Jason Gastrich"
<usenetspam1@yahoo.com> let us all know that:
Tim Crowley wrote:
Susan Cohen wrote:
"Tim Crowley" <timmyturmoil@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1110839729.128561.280120@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Jason Gastrich wrote:
And this is exactly what the Bible predicts. The Bible doesn't
predict end-times, rampant unbelief. It predicts end times,
rampant false religion; just like we have today with the increase
in Islam, Mormonism, and every other doctrine and "way" that
contradicts Christianity.
Except, of course - Islam and Mormonism do not contradict
Christianity.
Depends on what you mean by "contradict".
Islam (for example) says that Jesus was not G-d or the son of G-d.
Really, please do show us exactly where it says this. I wasn't aware
that you were an Islamic expert. I'll wait for your cites.
I wouldn't refer to myself as an Islamic expert.
Nor would anyone else. The only thing you are an expert in is
lying your ***** off.
Don
---
aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man"
.
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| User: "Jos Flachs" |
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| Title: Re: The Twilight of Atheism |
16 Mar 2005 04:29:02 AM |
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On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 18:25:58 GMT, "Jason Gastrich"
<usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote:
I wouldn't refer to myself as an Islamic expert.
Most of us wouldn't call you an expert in anything.
However, I study their religion.
So you say. If as thorough as you did for your "doctorate", pardon me
for not being impressed.
Anyone who studies Islam and Christianity should be able to tell
that there are stark differences.
Certainly. The similarities however are startling.
.
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| User: "Al Smith" |
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| Title: Re: The Twilight of Atheism |
15 Mar 2005 12:39:07 PM |
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Tim Crowley wrote:
Jason Gastrich wrote:
J Young wrote:
The article is a little long but definitely worth reading.
"This article first appeared in March 2005 issue of Christianity
Today. Used by permission of Christianity Today International,
Carol
Stream, IL 60188."
The Twilight of Atheism
Why this once exciting and 'liberating' philosophy failed to
capture
the world's imagination.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2005/003/21.36.html
by Alister McGrath
The celebration of Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee in June 1897
marked the high point of British imperial history. It was a
supreme
moment of national self-confidence and congratulation. The
British
had created an empire on which the sun never set, and much of its
colorful diversity was on display in the streets of London that
summer.
But Earth's proud empires fade away. The same process of growth
and
decay can be seen in the empires of the mind. There comes a point
when
their attraction pales and their credibility falters. To wit:
Atheism
is in trouble. Its future seems increasingly to lie in the
private
beliefs of individuals rather than in the great public domain it
once
regarded as its natural habitat.
And this is exactly what the Bible predicts. The Bible doesn't
predict
end-times, rampant unbelief. It predicts end times, rampant false
religion;
just like we have today with the increase in Islam, Mormonism, and
every
other doctrine and "way" that contradicts Christianity.
Except, of course - Islam and Mormonism do not contradict
Christianity.
Christians believe salvation is only achieved through Jesus Christ.
Islam doesn't believe that. Once again, you are wrong.
They may contridcict your specific little hate cult but not
Christianity.
.
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| User: "Tim Crowley" |
|
| Title: Re: The Twilight of Atheism |
15 Mar 2005 12:45:10 PM |
|
|
Al Smith wrote:
Tim Crowley wrote:
Jason Gastrich wrote:
J Young wrote:
The article is a little long but definitely worth reading.
"This article first appeared in March 2005 issue of
Christianity
Today. Used by permission of Christianity Today International,
Carol
Stream, IL 60188."
The Twilight of Atheism
Why this once exciting and 'liberating' philosophy failed to
capture
the world's imagination.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2005/003/21.36.html
by Alister McGrath
The celebration of Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee in June
1897
marked the high point of British imperial history. It was a
supreme
moment of national self-confidence and congratulation. The
British
had created an empire on which the sun never set, and much of
its
colorful diversity was on display in the streets of London that
summer.
But Earth's proud empires fade away. The same process of growth
and
decay can be seen in the empires of the mind. There comes a
point
when
their attraction pales and their credibility falters. To wit:
Atheism
is in trouble. Its future seems increasingly to lie in the
private
beliefs of individuals rather than in the great public domain
it
once
regarded as its natural habitat.
And this is exactly what the Bible predicts. The Bible doesn't
predict
end-times, rampant unbelief. It predicts end times, rampant
false
religion;
just like we have today with the increase in Islam, Mormonism,
and
every
other doctrine and "way" that contradicts Christianity.
Except, of course - Islam and Mormonism do not contradict
Christianity.
Christians believe salvation is only achieved through Jesus Christ.
Islam doesn't believe that. Once again, you are wrong.
Yes. I erred. Others posted evidence that showed my error and I
acknowlwdged it.
They may contridcict your specific little hate cult but not
Christianity.
.
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| User: "Brian E. Clark" |
|
| Title: Re: The Twilight of Atheism |
15 Mar 2005 01:40:05 PM |
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In article <1110911947.454939.255320
@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, Al Smith said...
Christians believe salvation is only achieved through Jesus Christ.
I've met plenty of Christians who wouldn't agree with that. Some
believe, outright, that God can be approached in various ways.
Others extend the notion of salvation-through-Christ to include
paths forged by other religions. (And please spare me any
rubbish that "They're not really Christians, then.")
--
-----------
Brian E. Clark
.
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