| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Truth Hunter" |
| Date: |
10 Sep 2005 05:14:19 PM |
| Object: |
The two natures of Jesus |
The two natures of Jesus
How do the Human and Divine natures of Jesus interact?
I know the official position is the Hypostatic Union that he is both at
once, and the natures are seperate (not mixed) and yet united.
But when discussing things like Jesus praying in Gethsemane, many say
it was his human nature doing that. But isn't that Nestorianism, that
Jesus is in one instance God and another Man?
You can't say Jesus doing something human, was his "human side" as his
Divine side has to be equally involved in every action of his human
side according to the Hypostatic Union if Jesus is to be both Human and
Divine at the same time.
So Jesus's human nature cannot do something his Divine nature can't if
he is both at once. So saying somethihng Jesus did while incarnate
"shows Jesus human nature" cannot be true as his divine nature has to
be capable of that as well, if he is both at once. So it does not show
the existence of a human nature.
So for the Hypostatic Union, the Divine nature has to be capable of
feeling hunger, fatagiue, etc. and praying a prayer like the one in
Gethsemane and of every other thing people point out as evidence of a
human side to Jesus, as to to say either nature of Jesus can act alone
is Nestorianism.
So what evidence in the Bible is there of the Hypostatic Union?
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org
Bumper Sticker
DIVINE INSANITY
God killed himself on the cross to save his own creation fro=ADm his own
wrath!(Author unknown)
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| User: "Jim07D5" |
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| Title: Re: The two natures of Jesus |
10 Sep 2005 05:50:22 PM |
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"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> said:
The two natures of Jesus
How do the Human and Divine natures of Jesus interact?
I know the official position is the Hypostatic Union that he is both at
once, and the natures are seperate (not mixed) and yet united.
But when discussing things like Jesus praying in Gethsemane, many say
it was his human nature doing that. But isn't that Nestorianism, that
Jesus is in one instance God and another Man?
You can't say Jesus doing something human, was his "human side" as his
Divine side has to be equally involved in every action of his human
side according to the Hypostatic Union if Jesus is to be both Human and
Divine at the same time.
So Jesus's human nature cannot do something his Divine nature can't if
he is both at once. So saying somethihng Jesus did while incarnate
"shows Jesus human nature" cannot be true as his divine nature has to
be capable of that as well, if he is both at once. So it does not show
the existence of a human nature.
So for the Hypostatic Union, the Divine nature has to be capable of
feeling hunger, fatagiue, etc. and praying a prayer like the one in
Gethsemane and of every other thing people point out as evidence of a
human side to Jesus, as to to say either nature of Jesus can act alone
is Nestorianism.
So what evidence in the Bible is there of the Hypostatic Union?
This kind of problem haunts all creators of superheroes who lead a
double life and need to appeal to a changing world.
http://theages.superman.ws/History/Intro.php
--- Jim07D5
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| User: "Greywolf" |
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| Title: Re: The two natures of Jesus |
10 Sep 2005 06:22:12 PM |
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"Jim07D5" <Jim07D5@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:4276i1t43fsk63haq2j2lclqfbl2ks7jps@4ax.com...
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> said:
The two natures of Jesus
How do the Human and Divine natures of Jesus interact?
I know the official position is the Hypostatic Union that he is both at
once, and the natures are seperate (not mixed) and yet united.
But when discussing things like Jesus praying in Gethsemane, many say
it was his human nature doing that. But isn't that Nestorianism, that
Jesus is in one instance God and another Man?
You can't say Jesus doing something human, was his "human side" as his
Divine side has to be equally involved in every action of his human
side according to the Hypostatic Union if Jesus is to be both Human and
Divine at the same time.
So Jesus's human nature cannot do something his Divine nature can't if
he is both at once. So saying somethihng Jesus did while incarnate
"shows Jesus human nature" cannot be true as his divine nature has to
be capable of that as well, if he is both at once. So it does not show
the existence of a human nature.
So for the Hypostatic Union, the Divine nature has to be capable of
feeling hunger, fatagiue, etc. and praying a prayer like the one in
Gethsemane and of every other thing people point out as evidence of a
human side to Jesus, as to to say either nature of Jesus can act alone
is Nestorianism.
So what evidence in the Bible is there of the Hypostatic Union?
This kind of problem haunts all creators of superheroes who lead a
double life and need to appeal to a changing world.
http://theages.superman.ws/History/Intro.php
--- Jim07D5
I have a question. Did Jesus-God ever masturbate? If so, did he sin?
(I know, I know. I'm being extremely 'vulgar' here. But in my book, it is a
legitimate question to ask. What, is the act 'dirty' or something? Or is it
just
part of being 'human'?
Greywolf
(And believe me, I find it a distasteful thing to bring the up the subject
myself, but the religionists that frequent and post in aa need to answer the
question.)
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| User: "Jim07D5" |
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| Title: Re: The two natures of Jesus |
11 Sep 2005 03:56:52 PM |
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"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> said:
"Jim07D5" <Jim07D5@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:4276i1t43fsk63haq2j2lclqfbl2ks7jps@4ax.com...
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> said:
<...>
So what evidence in the Bible is there of the Hypostatic Union?
This kind of problem haunts all creators of superheroes who lead a
double life and need to appeal to a changing world.
http://theages.superman.ws/History/Intro.php
--- Jim07D5
I have a question. Did Jesus-God ever masturbate?
<...>
I have a question. Did Superman ever masturbate? I can safely bet
there is no official DC or other comics publication of his doing so,
(same for the movie and TV versions too, although they don't really
count) but did he do it in private, when he wasn't being drawn?
The latter option seems kind of silly.
The same logic and reasoning (and silliness) apply, in your question,
as in mine. (I know you know this.) Superman's entire existence is
what is (officially) drawn about him, and that is where he is to be
found existing. Jesus-God's entire existence is what is (officially)
written about him, and that is where he is to be found existing.
--- Jim07D5
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| User: "Peter" |
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| Title: Re: The two natures of Jesus |
11 Sep 2005 05:33:28 PM |
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"Jim07D5" <Jim07D5@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:r5k8i1lsm2q1bce36hd3c4p12td7ss5t6v@4ax.com...
"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> said:
"Jim07D5" <Jim07D5@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:4276i1t43fsk63haq2j2lclqfbl2ks7jps@4ax.com...
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> said:
<...>
So what evidence in the Bible is there of the Hypostatic Union?
This kind of problem haunts all creators of superheroes who lead a
double life and need to appeal to a changing world.
http://theages.superman.ws/History/Intro.php
--- Jim07D5
I have a question. Did Jesus-God ever masturbate?
<...>
I have a question. Did Superman ever masturbate? I
http://www.larryniven.org/stories/Man_of_Steel_Woman_of_Kleenex.htm
Excerpt
"Consider the driving urge between a man and a woman, the monomaniacal urge
to achieve greater and greater penetration. Remember also that we are
dealing with kryptonian muscles.
Superman would literally crush LL's body in his arms, while simultaneously
ripping her open from crotch to sternum, gutting her like a trout. Lastly,
he'd blow off the top of her head."
Enjoy
Peter
can safely bet
there is no official DC or other comics publication of his doing so,
(same for the movie and TV versions too, although they don't really
count) but did he do it in private, when he wasn't being drawn?
The latter option seems kind of silly.
The same logic and reasoning (and silliness) apply, in your question,
as in mine. (I know you know this.) Superman's entire existence is
what is (officially) drawn about him, and that is where he is to be
found existing. Jesus-God's entire existence is what is (officially)
written about him, and that is where he is to be found existing.
--- Jim07D5
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| User: "Jim07D5" |
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| Title: Re: The two natures of Jesus |
11 Sep 2005 07:38:18 PM |
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"Peter" <grendlemonster@hotmail.com> said:
"Jim07D5" <Jim07D5@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:r5k8i1lsm2q1bce36hd3c4p12td7ss5t6v@4ax.com...
"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> said:
"Jim07D5" <Jim07D5@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:4276i1t43fsk63haq2j2lclqfbl2ks7jps@4ax.com...
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> said:
<...>
So what evidence in the Bible is there of the Hypostatic Union?
This kind of problem haunts all creators of superheroes who lead a
double life and need to appeal to a changing world.
http://theages.superman.ws/History/Intro.php
--- Jim07D5
I have a question. Did Jesus-God ever masturbate?
<...>
I have a question. Did Superman ever masturbate? I
http://www.larryniven.org/stories/Man_of_Steel_Woman_of_Kleenex.htm
Excerpt
"Consider the driving urge between a man and a woman, the monomaniacal urge
to achieve greater and greater penetration. Remember also that we are
dealing with kryptonian muscles.
Superman would literally crush LL's body in his arms, while simultaneously
ripping her open from crotch to sternum, gutting her like a trout. Lastly,
he'd blow off the top of her head."
Giving new meaning to "faster than a speeding bullet".
--- Jim07D5
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| User: "V S Rawat" |
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| Title: Re: The two natures of Jesus |
12 Sep 2005 04:27:23 PM |
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On 9/11/05 11:03 PM India Time, _Peter_ wrote:
I have a question. Did Superman ever masturbate? I
http://www.larryniven.org/stories/Man_of_Steel_Woman_of_Kleenex.htm
Excerpt
"Consider the driving urge between a man and a woman, the monomaniacal urge
to achieve greater and greater penetration. Remember also that we are
dealing with kryptonian muscles.
Superman would literally crush LL's body in his arms, while simultaneously
ripping her open from crotch to sternum, gutting her like a trout. Lastly,
he'd blow off the top of her head."
Enjoy
Peter
Really enjoyed.
So, Peter! it was safer for superman to beat his Peter. :)
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: The two natures of Jesus |
11 Sep 2005 06:42:29 PM |
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wht?
Peter wrote:
"Jim07D5" <Jim07D5@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:r5k8i1lsm2q1bce36hd3c4p12td7ss5t6v@4ax.com...
"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> said:
"Jim07D5" <Jim07D5@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:4276i1t43fsk63haq2j2lclqfbl2ks7jps@4ax.com...
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> said:
<...>
So what evidence in the Bible is there of the Hypostatic Union?
This kind of problem haunts all creators of superheroes who lead a
double life and need to appeal to a changing world.
http://theages.superman.ws/History/Intro.php
--- Jim07D5
I have a question. Did Jesus-God ever masturbate?
<...>
I have a question. Did Superman ever masturbate? I
http://www.larryniven.org/stories/Man_of_Steel_Woman_of_Kleenex.htm
Excerpt
"Consider the driving urge between a man and a woman, the monomaniacal urge
to achieve greater and greater penetration. Remember also that we are
dealing with kryptonian muscles.
Superman would literally crush LL's body in his arms, while simultaneously
ripping her open from crotch to sternum, gutting her like a trout. Lastly,
he'd blow off the top of her head."
Enjoy
Peter
can safely bet
there is no official DC or other comics publication of his doing so,
(same for the movie and TV versions too, although they don't really
count) but did he do it in private, when he wasn't being drawn?
The latter option seems kind of silly.
The same logic and reasoning (and silliness) apply, in your question,
as in mine. (I know you know this.) Superman's entire existence is
what is (officially) drawn about him, and that is where he is to be
found existing. Jesus-God's entire existence is what is (officially)
written about him, and that is where he is to be found existing.
--- Jim07D5
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| User: "Greywolf" |
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| Title: Re: The two natures of Jesus |
11 Sep 2005 05:02:00 PM |
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"Jim07D5" <Jim07D5@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:r5k8i1lsm2q1bce36hd3c4p12td7ss5t6v@4ax.com...
"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> said:
"Jim07D5" <Jim07D5@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:4276i1t43fsk63haq2j2lclqfbl2ks7jps@4ax.com...
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> said:
<...>
So what evidence in the Bible is there of the Hypostatic Union?
This kind of problem haunts all creators of superheroes who lead a
double life and need to appeal to a changing world.
http://theages.superman.ws/History/Intro.php
--- Jim07D5
I have a question. Did Jesus-God ever masturbate?
<...>
I have a question. Did Superman ever masturbate? I can safely bet
there is no official DC or other comics publication of his doing so,
(same for the movie and TV versions too, although they don't really
count) but did he do it in private, when he wasn't being drawn?
The latter option seems kind of silly.
The same logic and reasoning (and silliness) apply, in your question,
as in mine. (I know you know this.) Superman's entire existence is
what is (officially) drawn about him, and that is where he is to be
found existing. Jesus-God's entire existence is what is (officially)
written about him, and that is where he is to be found existing.
--- Jim07D5
The reason I even raised the question is because the Church has painted
(or has 'drawn') Jesus to be a mortal with the 'innards' of a deity. It has
continually strived to convince the faithful that he was truly 'human' and
suffered an agonizing death on the cross for mankind's 'sins' (including the
sins of non-believers I would surmise). Hence the emphasis on Jesus'
'human' nature. He *had* to feel agony, pain, anguish and experience
death if the crucifixion is to have any real meaning. But in making Jesus
'truly' human even this cartoon character would have to do what most humans
do naturally. Like go to the bathroom, poot, get lusty thoughts, wanna kill
somebody (or at least knock their lights out) and masturbate (among other
things.) The Church (and many of the faithful) may be uncomfortable with
this,
but tough! If you're going to say Jesus was truly human, he had to act
'humanly' or else he has to be an 'alien,' not a human - perhaps from the
planet Krypton. Or better yet, the Church should just admit he's a
fictitious
character and quit taking advantage of people who are too gullible to know
any better.
Greywolf
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: The two natures of Jesus |
11 Sep 2005 05:32:37 PM |
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Jim07D5 <Jim07D5@nospam.net> wrote in
news:r5k8i1lsm2q1bce36hd3c4p12td7ss5t6v@4ax.com:
"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> said:
"Jim07D5" <Jim07D5@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:4276i1t43fsk63haq2j2lclqfbl2ks7jps@4ax.com...
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> said:
<...>
So what evidence in the Bible is there of the Hypostatic Union?
This kind of problem haunts all creators of superheroes who lead a
double life and need to appeal to a changing world.
http://theages.superman.ws/History/Intro.php
--- Jim07D5
I have a question. Did Jesus-God ever masturbate?
<...>
I have a question. Did Superman ever masturbate? I can safely bet
there is no official DC or other comics publication of his doing so,
(same for the movie and TV versions too, although they don't really
count) but did he do it in private, when he wasn't being drawn?
http://www.larryniven.org/stories/Man_of_Steel_Woman_of_Kleenex.htm
The latter option seems kind of silly.
The same logic and reasoning (and silliness) apply, in your question,
as in mine. (I know you know this.) Superman's entire existence is
what is (officially) drawn about him, and that is where he is to be
found existing. Jesus-God's entire existence is what is (officially)
written about him, and that is where he is to be found existing.
--- Jim07D5
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
I think if we had a three-word message right now itd be, We can do
better.
- Howard Dean
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| User: "V S Rawat" |
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| Title: Re: The two natures of Jesus |
10 Sep 2005 08:27:40 PM |
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On 9/10/05 11:52 PM India Time, _Greywolf_ wrote:
I have a question. Did Jesus-God ever masturbate? If so, did he sin?
You said "a" question.
And then you went ahead asking two questions
1. Did Jesus-God ever masturbate?
2. If so, did he sin?
If you have learnt counting only upto less than 2, are you
sure that you will be able to understand the answer to the
above questionS
Anyway, let it be your funeral. The answers are:
1. There are no records that tell that he did.
(it does not prove that he didn't. If he did it, he did it
without any witness, left no evidence and didn't tell anybody.)
2. In place of the answer, a question:
Is it sin?
(I know, I know. I'm being extremely 'vulgar' here. But in my book, it is a
legitimate question to ask. What, is the act 'dirty' or something? Or is it
just part of being 'human'?
Greywolf
(And believe me, I find it a distasteful thing to bring the up the subject
myself, but the religionists that frequent and post in aa need to answer the
question.)
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| User: "Greywolf" |
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| Title: Re: The two natures of Jesus |
11 Sep 2005 06:11:23 AM |
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"V S Rawat" <VSRawat@Invalid.none> wrote in message
news:4323bc05_1@x-privat.org...
On 9/10/05 11:52 PM India Time, _Greywolf_ wrote:
I have a question. Did Jesus-God ever masturbate? If so, did he sin?
You said "a" question.
And then you went ahead asking two questions
1. Did Jesus-God ever masturbate?
2. If so, did he sin?
There I go again, showing my utter stupidity. You're right. It is
*two* questions.
If you have learnt counting only upto less than 2, are you sure that you
will be able to understand the answer to the above questionS
I'll give it my best shot.
Anyway, let it be your funeral. The answers are:
1. There are no records that tell that he did.
(it does not prove that he didn't. If he did it, he did it without any
witness, left no evidence and didn't tell anybody.)
Well I'm assuming that since his Godness was 'human,' he frequently did
a typically human thing to do - he masturbated. (I wonder who he was
thinking of when he did.) And the fact that he did would certainly not be
recorded in the Gospels. No more than Mary or any other gospel
character. That is to be expected.
2. In place of the answer, a question:
Is it sin?
I'm no theologian. And I certainly don't believe Jesus of Nazareth was a
deity
in disguise. But if you mean 'sin' to be a transgression against moral law,
I'd
say, No. Unless he did it in public or something. But hardly think he ever
did.
But I'll bet the whole issue is an uncomfortable one for a lot of people.
*I* find
it a bit repugnant. But it has to be dealt with, doesn't it?
(I know, I know. I'm being extremely 'vulgar' here. But in my book, it is
a
legitimate question to ask. What, is the act 'dirty' or something? Or is
it just part of being 'human'?
Greywolf
(And believe me, I find it a distasteful thing to bring the up the
subject
myself, but the religionists that frequent and post in aa need to answer
the
question.)
I would just add that many Christians just don't think their theology
through
enough. Did Jesus ever have 'lust' in his heart? I'll bet he did. In fact he
wouldn't
be 'human' if he didn't.
Greywolf
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| User: "V S Rawat" |
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| Title: Re: The two natures of Jesus |
11 Sep 2005 06:54:41 PM |
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On 9/11/05 11:41 AM India Time, _Greywolf_ wrote:
"V S Rawat" <VSRawat@Invalid.none> wrote in message
news:4323bc05_1@x-privat.org...
1. There are no records that tell that he did. (it does
not prove that he didn't. If he did it, he did it
without any witness, left no evidence and didn't tell
anybody.)
Well I'm assuming that since his Godness was 'human,' he
frequently did a typically human thing to do - he
masturbated. (I wonder who he was thinking of when he
did.)
It is not at all a "typically" human thing.
Several people don't masterbate. Even under the onslaught of
TV, films, magazines, ads which keep on showing seductive
things, several people don't masterbate today, what to say
about 13 AD.
There are several communities which consider virginity and
celibacy to be utmost virtues even today. at 13 AD, such
concepts should have been more prevalent and stringent.
I am just saying that your "typically human thing" is not at
all that mandatory.
And the fact that he did would certainly not be recorded
in the Gospels. No more than Mary or any other gospel
character. That is to be expected.
That is good logic.
You do not really know whether your father (or your mother,
for that matter) masterbated before marriage, nor are you
interested in knowing that.
You are not interested in knowing whom and how many people
your father or your mother dated before they got married.
You might have joked on above topics with your
school-buddies, but those jokes were not based on actual
knowledge of verified facts.
There are some topics which are not discussed with certain
relations. Sex is one of such topics. Hence such things are
not mentioned in gospels.
Mohammed wanted his life to be an example to all muslims. So
he revealed several such things about himself.
2. In place of the answer, a question: Is it sin?
I'm no theologian. And I certainly don't believe Jesus of
Nazareth was a deity in disguise.
wow! It seems you would not have asked these questions if
you believed that Jesus was a deity.
Seems you are not comfortable with God engaging in
masterbation, having sex, having fantasies, getting aroused,
etc.
What is wrong in that?
But if you mean 'sin'
to be a transgression against moral law, I'd say, No.
Unless he did it in public or something. But hardly think
he ever did. But I'll bet the whole issue is an
uncomfortable one for a lot of people. *I* find it a bit
repugnant. But it has to be dealt with, doesn't it?
I concur with you on this account.
I don't think masterbation is a sin. Hence Jesus or Mohammed
did not commit a sin even they did it.
To add: In some belief systems, succumbing to sex is a sin.
I would just add that many Christians just don't think
their theology through enough. Did Jesus ever have 'lust'
in his heart?
maybe.
I'll bet he did.
I don't agree. You shouldn't bet on things which can't be
proven one way or the other.
In fact he wouldn't be 'human' if he didn't.
I don't agree. See some Buddhist monks and you would get
some idea that sex is not a compulsory part of human psyche
even today. Then, you would be able to deduce how much
importance sex had 2000 years ago.
However, Jesus was not under any such social or religious
belief system. I mean, there are no accounts to say that he was.
Thanks and Regards.
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| User: "Eric Brze" |
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| Title: Re: The two natures of Jesus |
11 Sep 2005 01:45:45 PM |
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On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 01:11:23 -0500, "Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com>
wrote:
I would just add that many Christians just don't think their theology
through
enough. Did Jesus ever have 'lust' in his heart? I'll bet he did. In fact he
wouldn't
be 'human' if he didn't.
The difference is Jesus controls the lust, while we are controlled by
the lust.
.
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| User: "Greywolf" |
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| Title: Re: The two natures of Jesus |
11 Sep 2005 04:34:01 PM |
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"Eric Brze" <brze@no.spam.mail.com> wrote in message
news:e4d8i19qjokpfn28pu2nd6bn3bj0krasfj@4ax.com...
On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 01:11:23 -0500, "Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com>
wrote:
I would just add that many Christians just don't think their theology
through
enough. Did Jesus ever have 'lust' in his heart? I'll bet he did. In fact
he
wouldn't
be 'human' if he didn't.
The difference is Jesus controls the lust, while we are controlled by
the lust.
Now you know that you can't *possibly* say, with certainty, what Jesus was
thinking when Mary Magdalene brushed up against him from time to time, or
when she 'flirted' with him (which, being a woman, she undoubtedly did).
Being
'human,' his pooh pooh 'reacted' in turn. Don't you think? (And hey, I'm not
being 'dirty' here. I'm just pointing out what Jesus must have thought and
did -
being 'human' and all.
Greywolf
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| User: "iceman" |
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| Title: *PLONK* Re: The two natures of Jesus |
12 Sep 2005 03:15:59 AM |
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*PLONK*
"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message
news:11i8n3so6f0afd@corp.supernews.com...
"Eric Brze" <brze@no.spam.mail.com> wrote in message
news:e4d8i19qjokpfn28pu2nd6bn3bj0krasfj@4ax.com...
On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 01:11:23 -0500, "Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com>
wrote:
I would just add that many Christians just don't think their theology
through
enough. Did Jesus ever have 'lust' in his heart? I'll bet he did. In fact
he
wouldn't
be 'human' if he didn't.
The difference is Jesus controls the lust, while we are controlled by
the lust.
Now you know that you can't *possibly* say, with certainty, what Jesus was
thinking when Mary Magdalene brushed up against him from time to time, or
when she 'flirted' with him (which, being a woman, she undoubtedly did).
Being
'human,' his pooh pooh 'reacted' in turn. Don't you think? (And hey, I'm
not
being 'dirty' here. I'm just pointing out what Jesus must have thought and
did -
being 'human' and all.
Greywolf
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| User: "V S Rawat" |
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| Title: Re: The two natures of Jesus |
12 Sep 2005 04:20:06 PM |
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On 9/11/05 10:04 PM India Time, _Greywolf_ wrote:
Now you know that you can't *possibly* say, with certainty, what Jesus was
thinking when Mary Magdalene brushed up against him from time to time, or
when she 'flirted' with him (which, being a woman, she undoubtedly did).
Being 'human,' his pooh pooh 'reacted' in turn. Don't you think? (And hey, I'm not
being 'dirty' here. I'm just pointing out what Jesus must have thought and
did - being 'human' and all.
Suits me.
What problem you are having if Jesus indeed did "it" with
his wife?
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| User: "David Spiro" |
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| Title: Re: The two natures of Jesus |
10 Sep 2005 07:35:14 PM |
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"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1126372459.918039.188470@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
The two natures of Jesus
How do the Human and Divine natures of Jesus interact?
From the Hindu Upanishads: "When you stand before a sunset, or a mountain,
and exclaim "ah...", you are participating in divinity."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------
Bill Moyers: "So, are you saying that divinity is what we think?"
Joseph Campbell: "Yes"
Bill Moyers 'What does that do to faith? You are a man of faith.
Joseph Campbell: "I don't need to have faith, I have experience."
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| User: "Greywolf" |
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| Title: Re: The two natures of Jesus |
11 Sep 2005 01:03:48 AM |
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"David Spiro" <djspiro@bluefrognet.net> wrote in message
news:dfvchk01ueg@enews3.newsguy.com...
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1126372459.918039.188470@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
The two natures of Jesus
How do the Human and Divine natures of Jesus interact?
From the Hindu Upanishads: "When you stand before a sunset, or a mountain,
and exclaim "ah...", you are participating in divinity."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------
Bill Moyers: "So, are you saying that divinity is what we think?"
Joseph Campbell: "Yes"
Bill Moyers 'What does that do to faith? You are a man of faith.
Joseph Campbell: "I don't need to have faith, I have experience."
Which, for all intents and purposes, means nothing.
Greywolf
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: The two natures of Jesus |
11 Sep 2005 08:19:27 PM |
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On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 20:03:48 -0500, "Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com>
wrote:
"David Spiro" <djspiro@bluefrognet.net> wrote in message
news:dfvchk01ueg@enews3.newsguy.com...
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1126372459.918039.188470@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
The two natures of Jesus
How do the Human and Divine natures of Jesus interact?
From the Hindu Upanishads: "When you stand before a sunset, or a mountain,
and exclaim "ah...", you are participating in divinity."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------
Bill Moyers: "So, are you saying that divinity is what we think?"
Joseph Campbell: "Yes"
Bill Moyers 'What does that do to faith? You are a man of faith.
Joseph Campbell: "I don't need to have faith, I have experience."
Which, for all intents and purposes, means nothing.
How rude of you! You were not supposed to notice.
Thomas P.
"Life must be lived forwards but understood backwards"
(Kierkegaard)
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| User: "Eeyore" |
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| Title: Re: The two natures of Jesus |
11 Sep 2005 09:20:15 PM |
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In article <1126372459.918039.188470@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "Truth
Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote:
The two natures of Jesus
How do the Human and Divine natures of Jesus interact?
I know the official position is the Hypostatic Union that he is both at
once, and the natures are seperate (not mixed) and yet united.
But when discussing things like Jesus praying in Gethsemane, many say
it was his human nature doing that. But isn't that Nestorianism, that
Jesus is in one instance God and another Man?
The Pastafarians however say....
GO TO
http://www.venganza.org/index.htm
OPEN LETTER TO KANSAS SCHOOL BOARD
Dear Sir
I am writing you with much concern after having read of your hearing to
decide whether the alternative theory of Intelligent Design should be
taught along with the theory of Evolution. I think we can all agree that
it is important for students to hear multiple viewpoints so they can
choose for themselves the theory that makes the most sense to them. I am
concerned, however, that students will only hear one theory of Intelligent
Design.
Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I
and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the
universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. It was He who created
all that we see and all that we feel. We feel strongly that the
overwhelming scientific evidence pointing towards evolutionary processes
is nothing but a coincidence, put in place by Him.
It is for this reason that Iım writing you today, to formally request that
this alternative theory be taught in your schools, along with the other
two theories. In fact, I will go so far as to say, if you do not agree to
do this, we will be forced to proceed with legal action. Iım sure you see
where we are coming from. If the Intelligent Design theory is not based on
faith, but instead another scientific theory, as is claimed, then you must
also allow our theory to be taught, as it is also based on science, not on
faith.
Some find that hard to believe, so it may be helpful to tell you a little
more about our beliefs. We have evidence that a Flying Spaghetti Monster
created the universe. None of us, of course, were around to see it, but we
have written accounts of it. We have several lengthy volumes explaining
all details of His power. Also, you may be surprised to hear that there
are over 10 million of us, and growing. We tend to be very secretive, as
many people claim our beliefs are not substantiated by observable
evidence. What these people donıt understand is that He built the world to
make us think the earth is older than it really is. For example, a
scientist may perform a carbon-dating process on an artifact. He finds
that approximately 75% of the Carbon-14 has decayed by electron emission
to Nitrogen-14, and infers that this artifact is approximately 10,000
years old, as the half-life of Carbon-14 appears to be 5,730 years. But
what our scientist does not realize is that every time he makes a
measurement, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is there changing the results
with His Noodly Appendage. We have numerous texts that describe in detail
how this can be possible and the reasons why He does this. He is of course
invisible and can pass through normal matter with ease.
Iım sure you now realize how important it is that your students are taught
this alternate theory. It is absolutely imperative that they realize that
observable evidence is at the discretion of a Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Furthermore, it is disrespectful to teach our beliefs without wearing His
chosen outfit, which of course is full pirate regalia. I cannot stress the
importance of this enough, and unfortunately cannot describe in detail why
this must be done as I fear this letter is already becoming too long. The
concise explanation is that He becomes angry if we donıt.
You may be interested to know that global warming, earthquakes,
hurricanes, and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the
shrinking numbers of Pirates since the 1800s. For your interest, I have
included a graph of the approximate number of pirates versus the average
global temperature over the last 200 years. As you can see, there is a
statistically significant inverse relationship between pirates and global
temperature.
In conclusion, thank you for taking the time to hear our views and
beliefs. I hope I was able to convey the importance of teaching this
theory to your students. We will of course be able to train the teachers
in this alternate theory. I am eagerly awaiting your response, and hope
dearly that no legal action will need to be taken. I think we can all look
forward to the time when these three theories are given equal time in our
science classrooms across the country, and eventually the world; One third
time for Intelligent Design, one third time for Flying Spaghetti
Monsterism, and one third time for logical conjecture based on
overwhelming observable evidence.
Sincerely Yours,
Bobby Henderson, concerned citizen.
P.S. I have included an artistic drawing of Him creating a mountain,
trees, and a midget. Remember, we are all His creatures.
http://www.venganza.org/index.htm
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| User: "dgillesp" |
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| Title: Re: The two natures of Jesus |
10 Sep 2005 07:15:50 PM |
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Truth Hunter wrote:
The two natures of Jesus
How do the Human and Divine natures of Jesus interact?
I know the official position is the Hypostatic Union that he is both at
once, and the natures are seperate (not mixed) and yet united.
The issue of Christology came to a head in the fifth century and
boundaries were set as to what Christians could and could not believe
about the Deity and Humanity of Christ. Leo, the Bishop of Rome in his
Tome of 449 maintained that Christ is a single person who through
incarnation added a human nature to the divinity he possessed from all
eternity. The vital link between the human and divine is to be found in
the divine Person--rather than in the two natures. The bridge fully
connecting God and Man is established by the Incarnate Christ who is
himself "at once" both divine and human. Christ must be fully God and
fully human to
to accomplish this. Popular heresies both then and in the present day
undermine some part of this basic foundation of Christian faith.
"Either Christ was made less than God (Arianism); or His humanity was so
divided from his Godhead that he became two persons instead of one
(Nestorianism); or He was not fully human (Monophysitism)." (Timothy
Ware) The Fourth Ecumenical Council settled the issue regarding the two
natures of Christ.
--
Denny
"There cannot be a God because, If there were one, I would
not believe that I were not He." - Friedrich Nietzsche
"My husband and I divorced over religious differences.
He thought he was God and I didn't." - Minny A. Spouse
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| User: "Greywolf" |
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| Title: Re: The two natures of Jesus |
11 Sep 2005 01:00:58 AM |
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"dgillesp" <dgillesp@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:432330E6.2DA37110@nospam.net...
Truth Hunter wrote:
The two natures of Jesus
How do the Human and Divine natures of Jesus interact?
I know the official position is the Hypostatic Union that he is both at
once, and the natures are seperate (not mixed) and yet united.
The issue of Christology came to a head in the fifth century and
boundaries were set as to what Christians could and could not believe
about the Deity and Humanity of Christ. Leo, the Bishop of Rome in his
Tome of 449 maintained that Christ is a single person who through
incarnation added a human nature to the divinity he possessed from all
eternity. The vital link between the human and divine is to be found in
the divine Person--rather than in the two natures.
I would just ask: How can you be *truly* human if you are deity? You
can't. The carpenter's son from Nazareth was a human. The Church turned
*him* into something inhuman. At best, you can say the Jesus of the
Christian faith was 'sorta' human.
The bridge fully
connecting God and Man is established by the Incarnate Christ who is
himself "at once" both divine and human. Christ must be fully God and
fully human to
to accomplish this.
You can't be 'fully' human and yet be a deity at the same time. The point
I am beating into the ground here is that you are either human or you
aren't.
A guy who could (but didn't) walk on water and raise (fictitious) people
from the dead is decidedly not human. That is to say that a deity that
'looks'
like a human isn't *really* human, is he?
Popular heresies both then and in the present day
undermine some part of this basic foundation of Christian faith.
"Either Christ was made less than God (Arianism); or His humanity was so
divided from his Godhead that he became two persons instead of one
(Nestorianism); or He was not fully human (Monophysitism)." (Timothy
Ware) The Fourth Ecumenical Council settled the issue regarding the two
natures of Christ.
That's *one* of my problems with the Church. All it takes is a pope, in this
case,
Pope St. Leo I and a group of muckity-mucks *and* an empress and emperor
(Pulcheria and Marcian) to sit around a table and determine, for all of
Christendom,
who or what Jesus 'truly' was. The Council of Chalcedon 'proved' nothing
about
God *or* Jesus. It was the fat-cats in the proverbial cigar-smoke filled
back room
determining politics once again. (Wouldn't it have been easier for Jesus to
step out
from behind the shadows, so to speak, and have *him* say who or what he was?
Oops. I forgot. He died on a cross, didn't he. Oh well.) 'Dual nature,' my
*****. How
downright ridiculous the whole thing is. Gosh, darn it!
Greywolf.
--
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| User: "V S Rawat" |
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| Title: Re: The two natures of Jesus |
11 Sep 2005 07:11:11 PM |
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On 9/11/05 6:30 AM India Time, _Greywolf_ wrote:
You can't be 'fully' human and yet be a deity at the same
time. The point I am beating into the ground here is that
you are either human or you aren't. A guy who could (but
didn't) walk on water and raise (fictitious) people from
the dead is decidedly not human. That is to say that a
deity that 'looks' like a human isn't *really* human, is
he?
The miracles could have been attributed by church out of
nothing, or at least blown out of proportion.
Then, there are hypnotism, charmer's magic, placebos, make
believes, chemicals to alter consciousness, ...
That's *one* of my problems with the Church.
If you say that you have a problem in that, that means that
you have already overcome that problem.
You are not bound to believe in what Church tells you.
didn't the church tell you that Earth is the centre of
universe, human is the special creation by God in his own
form, no evolution, ...
You know that none of this is correct.
All it takes
is a pope, in this case, Pope St. Leo I and a group of
muckity-mucks *and* an empress and emperor (Pulcheria and
Marcian) to sit around a table and determine, for all of
Christendom, who or what Jesus 'truly' was. The Council
of Chalcedon 'proved' nothing about God *or* Jesus.
Right.
It
was the fat-cats in the proverbial cigar-smoke filled
back room determining politics once again.
Not that conceited, I would say.
Church tried to standardize certain things. It was a good
step and helped Christianity not to become like come a pagan
religion of 6th century Arabs who worshipped 360 dieties.
(Wouldn't it
have been easier for Jesus to step out from behind the
shadows, so to speak, and have *him* say who or what he
was? Oops. I forgot. He died on a cross, didn't he. Oh
well.) 'Dual nature,' my *****.
Aah.
1. But he resurrected. Now figure it out.
2. There is a Mohammed guy who said that Jesus didn't die at
the cross and God lifted him up alive and with body. Now
figure it out.
How downright ridiculous
the whole thing is. Gosh, darn it!
Greywolf.
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: The two natures of Jesus |
11 Sep 2005 08:19:26 PM |
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On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 15:15:50 -0400, dgillesp <dgillesp@nospam.net>
wrote:
Truth Hunter wrote:
The two natures of Jesus
How do the Human and Divine natures of Jesus interact?
I know the official position is the Hypostatic Union that he is both at
once, and the natures are seperate (not mixed) and yet united.
The issue of Christology came to a head in the fifth century and
boundaries were set as to what Christians could and could not believe
about the Deity and Humanity of Christ.
Leo, the Bishop of Rome in his
Tome of 449 maintained that Christ is a single person who through
incarnation added a human nature to the divinity he possessed from all
eternity. The vital link between the human and divine is to be found in
the divine Person--rather than in the two natures. The bridge fully
connecting God and Man is established by the Incarnate Christ who is
himself "at once" both divine and human. Christ must be fully God and
fully human to
to accomplish this. Popular heresies both then and in the present day
undermine some part of this basic foundation of Christian faith.
"Either Christ was made less than God (Arianism); or His humanity was so
divided from his Godhead that he became two persons instead of one
(Nestorianism); or He was not fully human (Monophysitism)." (Timothy
Ware) The Fourth Ecumenical Council settled the issue regarding the two
natures of Christ.
What has been impossible is to make the doctrine sensible. It says
that he is god, and that he is man, which means that he has no
beginning and no end; and that he is mortal with both a beginning and
an end. The doctrine is called a mystery, which is another way of
saying that it is a logical contradiction not to mention laughable.
Thomas P.
"Life must be lived forwards but understood backwards"
(Kierkegaard)
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: The two natures of Jesus |
10 Sep 2005 09:25:04 PM |
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dgillesp <dgillesp@nospam.net> wrote in news:432330E6.2DA37110
@nospam.net:
Truth Hunter wrote:
The two natures of Jesus
How do the Human and Divine natures of Jesus interact?
I know the official position is the Hypostatic Union that he is both
at
once, and the natures are seperate (not mixed) and yet united.
The issue of Christology came to a head in the fifth century and
boundaries were set as to what Christians could and could not believe
about the Deity and Humanity of Christ. Leo, the Bishop of Rome in his
Tome of 449 maintained that Christ is a single person who through
incarnation added a human nature to the divinity he possessed from all
eternity. The vital link between the human and divine is to be found
in
the divine Person--rather than in the two natures. The bridge fully
connecting God and Man is established by the Incarnate Christ who is
himself "at once" both divine and human. Christ must be fully God and
fully human to
to accomplish this. Popular heresies both then and in the present day
undermine some part of this basic foundation of Christian faith.
"Either Christ was made less than God (Arianism); or His humanity was
so
divided from his Godhead that he became two persons instead of one
(Nestorianism); or He was not fully human (Monophysitism)." (Timothy
Ware) The Fourth Ecumenical Council settled the issue regarding the
two
natures of Christ.
I guess they just couldn't (can't) keep their myth straight.
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
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| User: "James Ascher" |
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| Title: Re: The two natures of Jesus |
11 Sep 2005 01:15:56 PM |
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Truth Hunter wrote:
The two natures of Jesus
How do the Human and Divine natures of Jesus interact?
I know the official position is the Hypostatic Union that he is both at
once, and the natures are seperate (not mixed) and yet united.
Who cares? Jesus never existed. Even if there were a Yeshua ben David,
Yeshua was a common enough name back in the day.
James
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