| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"stoney" |
| Date: |
29 Apr 2006 04:49:24 PM |
| Object: |
Theists Never Learn |
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12551271/
Ten Commandments lawsuit headed to trial
Lawsuit challenges 8-foot granite display at Oklahoma courthouse
Updated: 4:54 p.m. ET April 29, 2006
STIGLER, Okla. - The 8-foot granite slab planted in the Haskell County
courthouse lawn makes the Ten Commandments easy to read and hard to miss
from the state highway that doubles as this town’s main thoroughfare.
The monument, erected with private money in 2004 with the county’s
approval, doesn’t stop traffic and courthouse visitors on a recent
morning barely gave it a glance.
“I don’t see anything wrong with it,” said 73-year-old Launa Medlock.
“We’ve got to have religion, too.”
Still, it has drawn national attention, and county officials have been
preparing to defend it in a trial that begins Monday in federal court.
Religion in the air
Public support for the monument is strong in this town of 2,700, sitting
90 miles southeast of Tulsa. There’s a church for roughly every 125 men,
women and children, and two signs advertising places of worship flanking
the courthouse lawn.
John Altstatt, a 42-year-old contractor who does business with the
county, said some people might see the marker as “church pushed down
their throat.” But he expressed ambivalence.
“I don’t have to look at if I don’t want to,” he said.
The lawsuit challenging the marker’s location comes amid national debate
over displays of Ten Commandments on public property. Court challenges
have yielded mixed results.
The U.S. Supreme Court, in a pair of 5-4 rulings last year, allowed the
Ten Commandments to be displayed outside the Texas state Capitol but not
inside two Kentucky courthouses, where the justices said they promoted a
religious message. The court ruled religious displays are not inherently
unconstitutional and must be considered on a case-by-case basis.
The non-jury trial, being held in Muskogee before U.S. District Judge
Ronald White, centers on an argument that the monument violates
constitutional protections against government endorsement of religion.
Seeking removal of monument
The American Civil Liberties Union filed the complaint against the
Haskell County commissioners on behalf of James W. Green, a retired
veteran and longtime county resident.
“All Mr. Green is asking is that the government not show favoritism for
a religious document which is in his mind contrary to the greater
message of Jesus’ teaching,” said Micheal Salem, an attorney
representing Green. The lawsuit seeks no damages — only that the
monument be declared unconstitutional and ordered removed from public
property.
A local lay pastor, Mike Bush, won permission from county commissioners
to erect the monument and raised funds with the help of Haskell County
churches and youth groups.
The commissioners say they granted Bush’s request because of the
historical significance of the Ten Commandments and the Mayflower
Compact, which appears on the marker’s reverse side.
Because the county had allowed other monuments on the courthouse lawn —
including tributes to war dead, two graduating classes and Choctaw
Indians who died on the Trail of Tears — it could have been sued had it
denied Bush’s request, said Joel Oster, an attorney representing Haskell
County in the suit.
“This is a free speech case,” Oster said. “There’s just a lot of stuff
on this courthouse lawn. If the county commissioners had told Mike ‘no,’
it would have violated his rights.”
Playing favorites?
In March, the county passed a resolution intended to codify what had
been previously described as a verbal policy involving placement of
monuments on county property. The written policy, which the ACLU called
a “facade,” included the criteria that the monument be related to the
history of Haskell County.
Salem said courts have ruled against monuments when their main purpose
has been found to be endorsement of religion.
“There is no talk in Stigler of placing the five pillars of Islam on the
courthouse lawn,” he said. “There is no talk about selecting some other
religious doctrine to be venerated. It’s very clear the county
government was playing to a popular notion.”
© 2006 The Associated Press
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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| User: "The Chief Instigator" |
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| Title: Re: Theists Never Learn |
30 Apr 2006 12:18:43 AM |
|
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stoney <stoney@the.net> writes:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12551271/
Ten Commandments lawsuit headed to trial
Lawsuit challenges 8-foot granite display at Oklahoma courthouse
Updated: 4:54 p.m. ET April 29, 2006
STIGLER, Okla. - The 8-foot granite slab planted in the Haskell County
courthouse lawn makes the Ten Commandments easy to read and hard to miss
from the state highway that doubles as this town’s main thoroughfare.
No surprise, as the 20th Century hasn't been allowed into Haskell County yet.
(It was the ***** end of Oklahoma when I lived not that far away in Tulsa
County, 40-odd years ago...some things never change.)
--
Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick@io.com) Houston, Texas
chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (TCI's 2005-06 Houston Aeros)
LAST GAME: Houston 5, Peoria 3 (April 26)
NEXT GAME: Opponent/time TBD (Game 1)
.
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| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Theists Never Learn |
02 May 2006 10:11:44 PM |
|
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On 30 Apr 2006 00:18:43 -0500, The Chief Instigator <patrick@io.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
stoney <stoney@the.net> writes:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12551271/
Ten Commandments lawsuit headed to trial
Lawsuit challenges 8-foot granite display at Oklahoma courthouse
Updated: 4:54 p.m. ET April 29, 2006
STIGLER, Okla. - The 8-foot granite slab planted in the Haskell County
courthouse lawn makes the Ten Commandments easy to read and hard to miss
from the state highway that doubles as this town’s main thoroughfare.
No surprise, as the 20th Century hasn't been allowed into Haskell County yet.
(It was the ***** end of Oklahoma when I lived not that far away in Tulsa
County, 40-odd years ago...some things never change.)
[shudder]
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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|
| User: "The Chief Instigator" |
|
| Title: Re: Theists Never Learn |
02 May 2006 10:44:02 PM |
|
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stoney <stoney@the.net> writes:
On 30 Apr 2006 00:18:43 -0500, The Chief Instigator <patrick@io.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
stoney <stoney@the.net> writes:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12551271/
Ten Commandments lawsuit headed to trial
Lawsuit challenges 8-foot granite display at Oklahoma courthouse
Updated: 4:54 p.m. ET April 29, 2006
STIGLER, Okla. - The 8-foot granite slab planted in the Haskell County
courthouse lawn makes the Ten Commandments easy to read and hard to miss
from the state highway that doubles as this town’s main thoroughfare.
No surprise, as the 20th Century hasn't been allowed into Haskell County yet.
(It was the ***** end of Oklahoma when I lived not that far away in Tulsa
County, 40-odd years ago...some things never change.)
[shudder]
It's almost unfortunate that the late CCCP didn't remodel Tinker AFB, a few
miles to the northeast, back during that little squabble in the fall of 1962,
which likely would have given Stigler (and a lot of Haskell County) a nice
batch of sieverts.
--
Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick@io.com) Houston, Texas
chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (TCI's 2005-06 Houston Aeros)
LAST GAME: Houston 5, Peoria 3 (April 26)
NEXT GAME: Thursday, May 4 at Milwaukee, 7:05 (Game 1)
.
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| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Theists Never Learn |
03 May 2006 05:03:53 PM |
|
|
On 02 May 2006 22:44:02 -0500, The Chief Instigator <patrick@io.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
stoney <stoney@the.net> writes:
On 30 Apr 2006 00:18:43 -0500, The Chief Instigator <patrick@io.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
stoney <stoney@the.net> writes:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12551271/
Ten Commandments lawsuit headed to trial
Lawsuit challenges 8-foot granite display at Oklahoma courthouse
Updated: 4:54 p.m. ET April 29, 2006
STIGLER, Okla. - The 8-foot granite slab planted in the Haskell County
courthouse lawn makes the Ten Commandments easy to read and hard to miss
from the state highway that doubles as this town’s main thoroughfare.
No surprise, as the 20th Century hasn't been allowed into Haskell County yet.
(It was the ***** end of Oklahoma when I lived not that far away in Tulsa
County, 40-odd years ago...some things never change.)
[shudder]
It's almost unfortunate that the late CCCP didn't remodel Tinker AFB, a few
miles to the northeast, back during that little squabble in the fall of 1962,
which likely would have given Stigler (and a lot of Haskell County) a nice
batch of sieverts.
A glowing recommendation.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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|
| User: "The Chief Instigator" |
|
| Title: Re: Theists Never Learn |
04 May 2006 12:13:33 AM |
|
|
stoney <stoney@the.net> writes:
On 02 May 2006 22:44:02 -0500, The Chief Instigator <patrick@io.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
stoney <stoney@the.net> writes:
On 30 Apr 2006 00:18:43 -0500, The Chief Instigator <patrick@io.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
stoney <stoney@the.net> writes:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12551271/
Ten Commandments lawsuit headed to trial
Lawsuit challenges 8-foot granite display at Oklahoma courthouse
Updated: 4:54 p.m. ET April 29, 2006
STIGLER, Okla. - The 8-foot granite slab planted in the Haskell County
courthouse lawn makes the Ten Commandments easy to read and hard to miss
from the state highway that doubles as this town’s main thoroughfare.
No surprise, as the 20th Century hasn't been allowed into Haskell County
yet. (It was the ***** end of Oklahoma when I lived not that far away in
Tulsa County, 40-odd years ago...some things never change.)
[shudder]
It's almost unfortunate that the late CCCP didn't remodel Tinker AFB, a few
miles to the northeast, back during that little squabble in the fall of 1962,
which likely would have given Stigler (and a lot of Haskell County) a nice
batch of sieverts.
A glowing recommendation.
Sieverts are the kinder, gentler measurement - easier on the calculator. (Not
that it matters to those who get lit up...five sieverts in a day, and your
future plans had best be immediate.)
--
Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick@io.com) Houston, Texas
chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (TCI's 2005-06 Houston Aeros)
LAST GAME: Houston 5, Peoria 3 (April 26)
NEXT GAME: Thursday, May 4 at Milwaukee, 7:05 (Game 1)
.
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| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Theists Never Learn |
04 May 2006 01:06:30 PM |
|
|
On 04 May 2006 00:13:33 -0500, The Chief Instigator <patrick@io.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
stoney <stoney@the.net> writes:
On 02 May 2006 22:44:02 -0500, The Chief Instigator <patrick@io.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
stoney <stoney@the.net> writes:
On 30 Apr 2006 00:18:43 -0500, The Chief Instigator <patrick@io.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
stoney <stoney@the.net> writes:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12551271/
Ten Commandments lawsuit headed to trial
Lawsuit challenges 8-foot granite display at Oklahoma courthouse
Updated: 4:54 p.m. ET April 29, 2006
STIGLER, Okla. - The 8-foot granite slab planted in the Haskell County
courthouse lawn makes the Ten Commandments easy to read and hard to miss
from the state highway that doubles as this town’s main thoroughfare.
No surprise, as the 20th Century hasn't been allowed into Haskell County
yet. (It was the ***** end of Oklahoma when I lived not that far away in
Tulsa County, 40-odd years ago...some things never change.)
[shudder]
It's almost unfortunate that the late CCCP didn't remodel Tinker AFB, a few
miles to the northeast, back during that little squabble in the fall of 1962,
which likely would have given Stigler (and a lot of Haskell County) a nice
batch of sieverts.
A glowing recommendation.
Sieverts are the kinder, gentler measurement - easier on the calculator. (Not
that it matters to those who get lit up...five sieverts in a day, and your
future plans had best be immediate.)
....if not sooner.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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