Religions > Atheism > They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until 1970's
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"newzguys" |
| Date: |
01 Jan 2006 09:28:02 PM |
| Object: |
They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until 1970's |
They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until 1970's
People that say there is a sin of homosexuality in the bible are
just ignorant of the facts of history, and the law.
Up until the 1970's the laws against sodomy were only laws against
nonprocreative sex, not homosexual sex. The very word and concept of
homosexuality did not exist commonly until 1892. Before this time
any attempt to say a law or a sin in the bible is directed
toward homosexuals is impossible. "The modern terms homosexuality
and heterosexuality do not apply to an era that had not yet
articulated these distinctions." Lawrence and Garner v. Texas US, 03
"Prohibitions against sodomy were rooted in the teachings of Western
Christianity, but those teachings have always been strikingly
inconsistent in their definition of the acts encompassed by the term.
When the term "sodomy" was first emphasized by medieval Christian
theologians in the eleventh century, they applied it inconsistently
to a diverse group of nonprocreative sexual practices." Not
homosexuals.
"The English Reformation Parliament of 1533 turned the religious
injunction against sodomy into the secular crime of buggery when it
made 'the detestable and abominable vice of buggery committed with
mankind or beast' punishable by death. The English courts interpreted
this to apply to sexual intercourse between a human and animal and
anal intercourse between a man and woman as well as anal intercourse
between two men." Again not homosexuals, but nonprocreative sex.
"Such discriminatory measures against homosexuals, although popularly
imagined to be longstanding, are in fact not ancient but a unique
and relatively short-lived product of mostly the 1970's."
It was only at the end of the nineteenth century that the very concept
of the homosexual as a distinct category of person developed. The word
"homosexual" was coined for the first time in a letter from Karl Maria
Kertbeny to Karl Heinrich Ulrichs dated 6 May 1868 and in two German
pamphlets published in 1869 in Leipzig, arguing for reform of Paragraph
143 of the Prussian Penal Code penalizing sexual relations between men.
The term after 1868 was not used by anyone else until 1880, and was
not in common use until 1892. Therefore to assign a sin of
homosexuality
to the sexual religious fertility rituals of having sex to worship
a fertility god, is an impossibility. In Lev 18:22 which is seen as a
sin of homosexuality is in fact connected to the verse before it, to
not
give seed to Molech. It is impossible to be a sin of homosexuality,
they
had no such concept of homosexuality at the time the bible was written.
"Kertbeny invented the term 'homosexuality' as part of an argument that
it was natural, and a matter of private behaviour which should be
beyond
the interference of the law. He intended it to be used as a neutral,
non-prejudicial term within legal arguments, which centred on the
concept
of equal rights and protection of minorities. 'Homosexuality' was thus
originated not as a medical term, but rather as a neutral, legal,
scientific term. "
For in depth reading see:
legal history
http://hnn.us/articles/1539.html
medical history
http://www.infopt.demon.co.uk/social14.htm
.
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| User: "satyr" |
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| Title: Re: They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until 1970's |
02 Jan 2006 10:22:59 AM |
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On 1 Jan 2006 19:28:02 -0800, "newzguys" <newzguys@yahoo.com> wrote:
They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until 1970's
People that say there is a sin of homosexuality in the bible are
just ignorant of the facts of history, and the law.
Up until the 1970's the laws against sodomy were only laws against
nonprocreative sex, not homosexual sex. The very word and concept of
homosexuality did not exist commonly until 1892. Before this time
any attempt to say a law or a sin in the bible is directed
toward homosexuals is impossible. "The modern terms homosexuality
and heterosexuality do not apply to an era that had not yet
articulated these distinctions." Lawrence and Garner v. Texas US, 03
<snip>
It is clear that the existence of homosexuality predates the 1970s and
even the 19th century. That societies did not always legally
distinguish between homosexuality and other forms of sexual behavior
deemed perverted, may be true. However, it is clear that the
distinction was known to homosexuals themselves and to society as
well. While the laws were neutral on homosexual vs. heterosexual
sodomy, enforcement was almost always directed at the former.
A quick search of the web finds many examples where homosexuality in
its modern sense was clearly known prior to 1800. For example:
http://www.gayhistory.com/rev2/events/1726.htm
**quoted**
1726: Mollies Arrested in London
England, 1726. Guided by the Societies for the Reformation of
Manners, police raided houses in London known as gathering places for
sodomites. In the slang of the day, these sodomites were called
mollies, a word that had earlier referred to female prostitutes. Their
gathering places, the molly houses, catered to a working class
clientele, people like butchers, upholsterers and clerks. The 1726
raids were the most thorough in the 1700s, and about 20 of the houses
were shut down.
Some of the houses that were raided were taverns, others were private
homes. Most accounts from the time describe a large room for drinking,
dancing, and socializing with an adjoining room called the chapel,
where men retired to have sex, or as they said, to "get married". The
first molly houses that historians have discovered appeared in London
in the 1690s. A series of prosecutions in 1699 and again in 1707,
along with well-known suicides of mollies who feared court trials, led
to public knowledge of this new species of sodomite.
One agent who had infiltrated the molly houses found men who "sat in
one another's lap, talked bawdy, and practiced a great many
indecencies". The men he observed there were feminine and called each
other "madam" or "your ladyship". They took on feminine names like
"Princess Seraphina", "Plump Nelly", and "Mary Magdalen". Some of the
men dressed in drag, and at least one, the Princess Seraphina, dressed
in drag most of the time, but cross dressers usually wore women's
clothes only within the relative safety of the molly houses. Ned Ward,
one of the forefathers of tabloid journalism, wrote an account of
scenes he had probably heard rumors about in his book The History of
the London Clubs (1709). The mollies, he wrote, "fancy themselves
women, imitating all the little vanities that custom has reconciled to
the female sex, affecting to speak, walk, tattle, curtsy, cry, scold,
and to mimic all manner of effeminacy...". Broadsheets published about
them referred to them as both "mollies" and "woman-haters".
**end quote**
http://www.gayhistory.com/rev2/events/1715.htm
**quoted**
Paris, 1715. Police inspector Simonnet and his two assistants
directed an unprecedented campaign to suppress and contain sodomy in
Paris, a problem that seemed to be growing at an alarming rate.
Inspector Simonnet, by all accounts a committed and incorruptible
policeman, pioneered the techniques of interrogation and entrapment
used in France throughout the 18th Century.
One favorite police method was to send informants to cruise known
meeting places for sodomites. The informants, called "flies" in
official records, chatted with suspected sodomites and if a man
signaled an interest in sex, the fly called nearby gendarmes to arrest
the victim. The flies were familiar with the ways of sodomites because
they themselves had been arrested for sodomy and in exchange for
favorable treatment - an exchange that amounted to blackmail - they
became agents of the police.
Before 1738, police records referred to same-sex eroticism as
"sodomy", a term coined by St. Peter Damian around 1050 in his Book of
Gomorrah. After 1738, the police adopted a different term,
"pederasty", the ancient Greek word for sex between men and boys. In
French usage, the word came to mean sex between two males, or even
between two females, regardless of the ages of the participants.
The change in terminology also reflected a change in perception. The
Catholic church had traditionally viewed sodomy as one of the sins of
luxury and idleness, a kind of debauchery that could tempt anyone, but
the French came to perceive the pederast as a special kind of person
with an unusual, perhaps inborn, sexual disposition. A second word
was often used to describe such a predilection, "antiphysique", a word
that highlighted the unnaturalness of same-sex desire.
**end quote**
http://www.gayhistory.com/rev2/events/1730.htm
**quoted**
Amsterdam, 1730. Dutch courts were shocked to learn of a widespread
sodomitical network spread throughout the major cities of the Dutch
Republic. In Utrecht, Zacharias Wilsma was arrested and charged with
sodomy and when questioned, he told his interrogators about
sodomitical contacts he had in the major Dutch cities, especially
Amsterdam. Utrecht officials sent Wilsma there to help Amsterdam
officials eliminate the sodomitical scourge from their city. In May,
1730, Wilsma testified against four men in an Amsterdam court. All
four were executed the next month.
The confessions of those convicted in the wake of Wilsma's testimony
revealed a sodomitical subculture with its own slang and meeting
places including "fun houses", as sodomites called the all-male
brothels, and two taverns. Men who left the taverns to have sex with
each other in public toilets were said to be "going to the office" and
they had names for their sexual practices: the "shaking out" meant
masturbation, the "dirty work" referred to anal intercourse.
Like England's mollies and Paris' pederasts, the subculture was
effeminate. Dutch sodomites used feminine nicknames and terms of
endearment. One commenator, a publicist named Justus van Effen,
described sodomites as "hermaphrodites in their minds" - a point of
view that would be independently popularized by Karl Ulrichs more than
100 years later. Several servants confessed to sexual relationships
with their masters and their master's friends, a familiarity that
Dutch society, dominated by an oligarchic class structure, found
threatening. From the standpoint of public opinion, these men were
not just casual sinners; sin was their way of life.
**end quote**
Thus it is clear that homosexuality as it is defined today has existed
and been publically known in Western culture for at least 300 years.
Even in the early 18th century it was recognized as an inborn, sexual
disposition. It would be naive to believe it has not existed since
the dawn of history, however society may have known, recognized and
acknowledged it at various times.
Indeed, contrary to Newzguys assertion that the acts of sodomy in the
Bible were religious heresies committed by heterosexuals who then
returned home to their wives, homosexual relationships were known in
Biblical times. The Emperor Nero was married to a young man for a
period of time. there would be much more documentation of this were
it not or the systematic destruction of homosexual literature in the
Library of Alexandria by the Christians.
Nevertheless, enough remains to form the basis of an extensive
bibliography on the topic. See:
http://www.infopt.demon.co.uk/bibancie.htm
The proven knowledge of homosexuality in history (by whatever name)
demolishes the argument that the writers of the Bible could not have
intended to proscribe this behavior on grounds other than idolatry.
The hateful vindictiveness in the Bible may well have extended to
other forms of sexuality as well, but that does not prove that they
were unaware of the nature of homosexuality.
The point is that the Bible is often a hateful book whether it is
condemning idolaters, homosexuals, masturbators or other practitioners
of victimless "crimes." This is reason enough for it not to be
considered a moral compass for the world today.
--
satyr #1953
Chairman, EAC Church Taxation Subcommittee
Director, Gideon Bible Alternative Fuel Project
Supervisor, EAC Fossil Casting Lab
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| User: "newzguys" |
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| Title: Re: They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until 1970's |
02 Jan 2006 10:33:03 PM |
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satyr wrote:
On 1 Jan 2006 19:28:02 -0800, "newzguys" <newzguys@yahoo.com> wrote:
They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until 1970's
People that say there is a sin of homosexuality in the bible are
just ignorant of the facts of history, and the law.
Up until the 1970's the laws against sodomy were only laws against
nonprocreative sex, not homosexual sex. The very word and concept of
homosexuality did not exist commonly until 1892. Before this time
any attempt to say a law or a sin in the bible is directed
toward homosexuals is impossible. "The modern terms homosexuality
and heterosexuality do not apply to an era that had not yet
articulated these distinctions." Lawrence and Garner v. Texas US, 03
<snip>
It is clear that the existence of homosexuality predates the 1970s and
even the 19th century. That societies did not always legally
distinguish between homosexuality and other forms of sexual behavior
deemed perverted, may be true. However, it is clear that the
distinction was known to homosexuals themselves and to society as
well.
Yes, homosexuals can fly through walls and the air, see into
the future 3000+ years, formulate the theory of General Relativity
3000 years before Einstein, and even knew about the Zero
before its invention as well. Hell, homosexuals are like unicorns
they can do anything. They knew they were homosexuals even
though they had a wife and kids at home by law and custom,
knew they were homosexuals even though they had no words
for nor a concept of homosexuality. There's nothing a homosexual
can't do, after all, they're homosexuals.
While the laws were neutral on homosexual vs. heterosexual
sodomy, enforcement was almost always directed at the former.
A quick search of the web finds many examples where homosexuality in
its modern sense was clearly known prior to 1800. For example:
http://www.gayhistory.com/rev2/events/1726.htm
Which had nothing to do with homosexuality, it was against
nonprocreative sex. The law (if not the practice) applied to
both.
For a full history of the concept of homosexuality see:
Legal history
http://hnn.us/articles/1539.html
Medical history
http://www.infopt.demon.co.uk/social14.htm
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until 1970's |
02 Jan 2006 08:53:30 AM |
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On 1 Jan 2006 19:28:02 -0800, "newzguys" <newzguys@yahoo.com> wrote:
They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until 1970's
People that say there is a sin of homosexuality in the bible are
just ignorant of the facts of history, and the law.
The proof is in the pudding.
Leviticus 20:13 (New International Version)
13 " 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done
what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own
heads
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Andrealphus" |
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| Title: Re: They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until 1970's |
02 Jan 2006 09:23:47 AM |
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In News ghfir11bkmpds3c5pab3s4gjve46cg071g@4ax.com,, duke at
duckgumbo32@cox.net, typed this:
On 1 Jan 2006 19:28:02 -0800, "newzguys" <newzguys@yahoo.com> wrote:
They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until 1970's
People that say there is a sin of homosexuality in the bible are
just ignorant of the facts of history, and the law.
The proof is in the pudding.
Leviticus 20:13 (New International Version)
13 " 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them
have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood
will be on their own heads
A few things about Leviticus. First of all, even if it defines a sin to
homosexuality, which is doubtful, Leviticus was a specific pact of laws made
between the Hebrew God, and the Hebrew (Children of Israel) and was not
meant to be applied to mankind as a whole. A clear reading of all of
Leviticus makes that abundantly clear. Moses would have considered it a
grievous sin to so much as teach Levitical law to Gentiles. Secondly, the
Book of Leviticus was a set of laws that defined "sin" in relation to temple
practices. Again, a clear reading of the whole of Leviticus clearly points
that out.
Since I am neither Hebrew, nor am I a Levite, Leviticus is irrelevant to me.
How many of the other Levitical proscriptions to you follow?
--
Question with boldness even the existence of god; because if there be
one, he must more approve the homage of reason than that of blindfolded
fear. - Thomas Jefferson
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| User: "Mike Andrade" |
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| Title: Re: They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until 1970's |
02 Jan 2006 11:32:19 AM |
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"Andrealphus" <NOREALEMAIL10@THISADDRESS.FOAD> wrote in
news:7Abuf.3624$M%4.429@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:
In News ghfir11bkmpds3c5pab3s4gjve46cg071g@4ax.com,, duke at
duckgumbo32@cox.net, typed this:
On 1 Jan 2006 19:28:02 -0800, "newzguys" <newzguys@yahoo.com>
wrote:
They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until 1970's
People that say there is a sin of homosexuality in the bible are
just ignorant of the facts of history, and the law.
The proof is in the pudding.
Leviticus 20:13 (New International Version)
13 " 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of
them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death;
their blood will be on their own heads
A few things about Leviticus. First of all, even if it defines a
sin to homosexuality, which is doubtful, Leviticus was a specific
pact of laws made between the Hebrew God, and the Hebrew (Children
of Israel) and was not meant to be applied to mankind as a whole.
A clear reading of all of Leviticus makes that abundantly clear.
Moses would have considered it a grievous sin to so much as teach
Levitical law to Gentiles. Secondly, the Book of Leviticus was a
set of laws that defined "sin" in relation to temple practices.
Again, a clear reading of the whole of Leviticus clearly points
that out.
Since I am neither Hebrew, nor am I a Levite, Leviticus is
irrelevant to me.
How many of the other Levitical proscriptions to you follow?
Get ready for the usual screed of false dichotomies, circular
reasoning, red herrings, and a host of other fallacies that avoid
factual information.
--
Mike
......File not found. Should I fake it? (Y/N)
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| User: "Andrealphus" |
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| Title: Re: They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until 1970's |
02 Jan 2006 03:12:17 PM |
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In News Xns973F7FFE3FF1Fmaboxinvalid@216.77.188.18,, Mike Andrade at
don't@think.so, typed this:
"Andrealphus" <NOREALEMAIL10@THISADDRESS.FOAD> wrote in
news:7Abuf.3624$M%4.429@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:
In News ghfir11bkmpds3c5pab3s4gjve46cg071g@4ax.com,, duke at
duckgumbo32@cox.net, typed this:
On 1 Jan 2006 19:28:02 -0800, "newzguys" <newzguys@yahoo.com>
wrote:
They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until 1970's
People that say there is a sin of homosexuality in the bible are
just ignorant of the facts of history, and the law.
The proof is in the pudding.
Leviticus 20:13 (New International Version)
13 " 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of
them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death;
their blood will be on their own heads
A few things about Leviticus. First of all, even if it defines a
sin to homosexuality, which is doubtful, Leviticus was a specific
pact of laws made between the Hebrew God, and the Hebrew (Children
of Israel) and was not meant to be applied to mankind as a whole.
A clear reading of all of Leviticus makes that abundantly clear.
Moses would have considered it a grievous sin to so much as teach
Levitical law to Gentiles. Secondly, the Book of Leviticus was a
set of laws that defined "sin" in relation to temple practices.
Again, a clear reading of the whole of Leviticus clearly points
that out.
Since I am neither Hebrew, nor am I a Levite, Leviticus is
irrelevant to me.
How many of the other Levitical proscriptions to you follow?
Get ready for the usual screed of false dichotomies, circular
reasoning, red herrings, and a host of other fallacies that avoid
factual information.
Yeah, I know.
--
Question with boldness even the existence of god; because if there be
one, he must more approve the homage of reason than that of blindfolded
fear. – Thomas Jefferson
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until 1970's |
02 Jan 2006 03:40:23 PM |
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On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 17:32:19 GMT, Mike Andrade <don't@think.so> wrote:
How many of the other Levitical proscriptions to you follow?
Get ready for the usual screed of false dichotomies, circular
reasoning, red herrings, and a host of other fallacies that avoid
factual information.
Say what? I'm a Roman Catholic.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Andrealphus" |
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| Title: Re: They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until 1970's |
02 Jan 2006 04:30:12 PM |
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In News cd7jr11tu6bslam170ji820scelaga3g89@4ax.com,, duke at
duckgumbo32@cox.net, typed this:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 17:32:19 GMT, Mike Andrade <don't@think.so> wrote:
How many of the other Levitical proscriptions to you follow?
Get ready for the usual screed of false dichotomies, circular
reasoning, red herrings, and a host of other fallacies that avoid
factual information.
Say what? I'm a Roman Catholic.
My condolences.
--
Question with boldness even the existence of god; because if there be
one, he must more approve the homage of reason than that of blindfolded
fear. - Thomas Jefferson
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until 1970's |
03 Jan 2006 01:07:17 PM |
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On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 22:30:12 GMT, "Andrealphus" <NOREALEMAIL10@THISADDRESS.FOAD>
wrote:
In News cd7jr11tu6bslam170ji820scelaga3g89@4ax.com,, duke at
duckgumbo32@cox.net, typed this:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 17:32:19 GMT, Mike Andrade <don't@think.so> wrote:
How many of the other Levitical proscriptions to you follow?
Get ready for the usual screed of false dichotomies, circular
reasoning, red herrings, and a host of other fallacies that avoid
factual information.
Say what? I'm a Roman Catholic.
My condolences.
I'm thrilled with my choice. You're in deep trouble.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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| User: "Andrealphus" |
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| Title: Re: They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until 1970's |
03 Jan 2006 01:07:57 PM |
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In News gqilr1la7kutvannntqf9n38v338mfkt6j@4ax.com,, duke at
duckgumbo32@cox.net, typed this:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 22:30:12 GMT, "Andrealphus"
<NOREALEMAIL10@THISADDRESS.FOAD> wrote:
In News cd7jr11tu6bslam170ji820scelaga3g89@4ax.com,, duke at
duckgumbo32@cox.net, typed this:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 17:32:19 GMT, Mike Andrade <don't@think.so>
wrote:
How many of the other Levitical proscriptions to you follow?
Get ready for the usual screed of false dichotomies, circular
reasoning, red herrings, and a host of other fallacies that avoid
factual information.
Say what? I'm a Roman Catholic.
My condolences.
I'm thrilled with my choice.
One of the signs of true delusion is that the deluded are thrilled.
You're in deep trouble.
Nope.
--
Question with boldness even the existence of god; because if there be
one, he must more approve the homage of reason than that of blindfolded
fear. - Thomas Jefferson
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until 1970's |
03 Jan 2006 04:26:25 PM |
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On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 19:07:57 GMT, "Andrealphus" <NOREALEMAIL10@THISADDRESS.FOAD>
wrote:
I'm thrilled with my choice.
One of the signs of true delusion is that the deluded are thrilled.
As well as those who honestly profess the truth.
You're in deep trouble.
Nope.
You're get your chance to say why one day.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Andrealphus" |
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| Title: Re: They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until 1970's |
03 Jan 2006 04:31:30 PM |
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In News teulr1d44piha2cq570p75oedmnusgk4r6@4ax.com,, duke at
duckgumbo32@cox.net, typed this:
On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 19:07:57 GMT, "Andrealphus"
<NOREALEMAIL10@THISADDRESS.FOAD> wrote:
I'm thrilled with my choice.
One of the signs of true delusion is that the deluded are thrilled.
As well as those who honestly profess the truth.
Religionists cannot make such a claim to the truth.
You're in deep trouble.
Nope.
You're get your chance to say why one day.
I have my chance to say right now. Nope.
--
Question with boldness even the existence of god; because if there be
one, he must more approve the homage of reason than that of blindfolded
fear. - Thomas Jefferson
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until 1970's |
03 Jan 2006 08:07:16 PM |
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On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 22:31:30 GMT, "Andrealphus" <NOREALEMAIL10@THISADDRESS.FOAD>
wrote:
I'm thrilled with my choice.
One of the signs of true delusion is that the deluded are thrilled.
As well as those who honestly profess the truth.
Religionists cannot make such a claim to the truth.
Then support your claim that there is no almighty God.
You're in deep trouble.
Nope.
You're get your chance to say why one day.
I have my chance to say right now. Nope.
Now's not the time. Do it one moment after you die when you stand before God to
answer for that which you did while in the flesh. And stand you will.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Honus" |
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| Title: Re: They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until 1970's |
03 Jan 2006 09:08:52 PM |
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"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:lbbmr1t15gni6m4kjb73auis8l4i31lufq@4ax.com...
On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 22:31:30 GMT, "Andrealphus"
<NOREALEMAIL10@THISADDRESS.FOAD>
wrote:
I'm thrilled with my choice.
One of the signs of true delusion is that the deluded are thrilled.
As well as those who honestly profess the truth.
Religionists cannot make such a claim to the truth.
Then support your claim that there is no almighty God.
You're in deep trouble.
Nope.
You're get your chance to say why one day.
I have my chance to say right now. Nope.
Now's not the time. Do it one moment after you die when you stand before
God to
answer for that which you did while in the flesh. And stand you will.
Of course he'll be standing. It just makes sense that you aim it at Him when
you tell Him to kiss your *****.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until 1970's |
04 Jan 2006 08:47:57 AM |
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On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 03:08:52 GMT, "Honus" <honus1@earthlink.net.is.invalid>
wrote:
You're get your chance to say why one day.
I have my chance to say right now. Nope.
Now's not the time. Do it one moment after you die when you stand before
God to
answer for that which you did while in the flesh. And stand you will.
Of course he'll be standing. It just makes sense that you aim it at Him when
you tell Him to kiss your *****.
Is he going to back in?
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Honus" |
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| Title: Re: They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until 1970's |
04 Jan 2006 09:27:49 AM |
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"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:rrnnr1dg8rd20r3lb236su99mec6k5oiq5@4ax.com...
On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 03:08:52 GMT, "Honus"
<honus1@earthlink.net.is.invalid>
wrote:
You're get your chance to say why one day.
I have my chance to say right now. Nope.
Now's not the time. Do it one moment after you die when you stand
before
God to
answer for that which you did while in the flesh. And stand you will.
Of course he'll be standing. It just makes sense that you aim it at Him
when
you tell Him to kiss your *****.
Is he going to back in?
Are you ever lucid?
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| User: "Andrealphus" |
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| Title: Re: They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until 1970's |
03 Jan 2006 08:07:55 PM |
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In News lbbmr1t15gni6m4kjb73auis8l4i31lufq@4ax.com,, duke at
duckgumbo32@cox.net, typed this:
On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 22:31:30 GMT, "Andrealphus"
<NOREALEMAIL10@THISADDRESS.FOAD> wrote:
I'm thrilled with my choice.
One of the signs of true delusion is that the deluded are thrilled.
As well as those who honestly profess the truth.
Religionists cannot make such a claim to the truth.
Then support your claim that there is no almighty God.
I never made such a claim.
You're in deep trouble.
Nope.
You're get your chance to say why one day.
I have my chance to say right now. Nope.
Now's not the time.
Yes it is. Nope.
--
Question with boldness even the existence of god; because if there be
one, he must more approve the homage of reason than that of blindfolded
fear. - Thomas Jefferson
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until 1970's |
04 Jan 2006 08:44:45 AM |
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On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 02:07:55 GMT, "Andrealphus" <NOREALEMAIL10@THISADDRESS.FOAD>
Then support your claim that there is no almighty God.
I never made such a claim.
Great, then you are a man of God.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Andrealphus" |
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| Title: Re: They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until 1970's |
04 Jan 2006 04:15:45 PM |
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In News mpnnr11r6draierq26rflj187thc39r6he@4ax.com,, duke at
duckgumbo32@cox.net, typed this:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 02:07:55 GMT, "Andrealphus"
<NOREALEMAIL10@THISADDRESS.FOAD>
Then support your claim that there is no almighty God.
I never made such a claim.
Great, then you are a man of God.
Nope. Is your thinking aways so polarized?
--
Question with boldness even the existence of god; because if there be
one, he must more approve the homage of reason than that of blindfolded
fear. - Thomas Jefferson
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| User: "Barry OGrady" |
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| Title: Re: They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until 1970's |
06 Jan 2006 04:31:10 AM |
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On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 20:07:16 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 22:31:30 GMT, "Andrealphus" <NOREALEMAIL10@THISADDRESS.FOAD>
wrote:
I'm thrilled with my choice.
One of the signs of true delusion is that the deluded are thrilled.
As well as those who honestly profess the truth.
Religionists cannot make such a claim to the truth.
Then support your claim that there is no almighty God.
You're in deep trouble.
Nope.
You're get your chance to say why one day.
I have my chance to say right now. Nope.
Now's not the time. Do it one moment after you die when you stand before God to
answer for that which you did while in the flesh. And stand you will.
Will God answer to us for the way he made us?
Since it is our physical brain that determines how we think and feel, what will we think
with once we leave our body?
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Barry
=====
Home page
http://members.iinet.net.au/~barry.og
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| User: "Paul Duca" |
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| Title: Re: They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until1970's |
04 Jan 2006 01:35:55 AM |
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in article lbbmr1t15gni6m4kjb73auis8l4i31lufq@4ax.com, duke at
duckgumbo32@cox.net wrote on 1/3/06 9:07 PM:
On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 22:31:30 GMT, "Andrealphus"
<NOREALEMAIL10@THISADDRESS.FOAD>
wrote:
I'm thrilled with my choice.
One of the signs of true delusion is that the deluded are thrilled.
As well as those who honestly profess the truth.
Religionists cannot make such a claim to the truth.
Then support your claim that there is no almighty God.
You're in deep trouble.
Nope.
You're get your chance to say why one day.
I have my chance to say right now. Nope.
Now's not the time. Do it one moment after you die when you stand before God
to
answer for that which you did while in the flesh. And stand you will.
I'm not saying a word until He answers for all the crap He heaped on
MY flesh...
Paul
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until 1970's |
04 Jan 2006 08:48:34 AM |
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On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 02:35:55 -0500, Paul Duca <p.duca@comcast.net> wrote:
I'm not saying a word until He answers for all the crap He heaped on
MY flesh...
You heaped it all there yourself.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Barry OGrady" |
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| Title: Re: They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until 1970's |
06 Jan 2006 04:31:11 AM |
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On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 08:48:34 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 02:35:55 -0500, Paul Duca <p.duca@comcast.net> wrote:
I'm not saying a word until He answers for all the crap He heaped on
MY flesh...
You heaped it all there yourself.
You blame the victims.
duke
*****
Barry
=====
Home page
http://members.iinet.net.au/~barry.og
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| User: "Paul Duca" |
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| Title: Re: They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until1970's |
04 Jan 2006 08:01:31 PM |
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in article 51onr1dk23b188m6jmfrgmvvfui0qre7ul@4ax.com, duke at
duckgumbo32@cox.net wrote on 1/4/06 9:48 AM:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 02:35:55 -0500, Paul Duca <p.duca@comcast.net> wrote:
I'm not saying a word until He answers for all the crap He heaped on
MY flesh...
You heaped it all there yourself.
You can pretend He does ANYTHING for you...I won't.
Paul
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| User: "Paul Duca" |
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| Title: Re: They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until1970's |
04 Jan 2006 01:26:05 AM |
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in article teulr1d44piha2cq570p75oedmnusgk4r6@4ax.com, duke at
duckgumbo32@cox.net wrote on 1/3/06 5:26 PM:
On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 19:07:57 GMT, "Andrealphus"
<NOREALEMAIL10@THISADDRESS.FOAD>
wrote:
I'm thrilled with my choice.
One of the signs of true delusion is that the deluded are thrilled.
As well as those who honestly profess the truth.
You're in deep trouble.
Nope.
You're get your chance to say why one day.
Then God will ignore Duke...
Paul
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| User: "Paul Duca" |
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| Title: Re: They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until1970's |
04 Jan 2006 01:16:07 AM |
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in article gqilr1la7kutvannntqf9n38v338mfkt6j@4ax.com, duke at
duckgumbo32@cox.net wrote on 1/3/06 2:07 PM:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 22:30:12 GMT, "Andrealphus"
<NOREALEMAIL10@THISADDRESS.FOAD>
wrote:
In News cd7jr11tu6bslam170ji820scelaga3g89@4ax.com,, duke at
duckgumbo32@cox.net, typed this:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 17:32:19 GMT, Mike Andrade <don't@think.so> wrote:
How many of the other Levitical proscriptions to you follow?
Get ready for the usual screed of false dichotomies, circular
reasoning, red herrings, and a host of other fallacies that avoid
factual information.
Say what? I'm a Roman Catholic.
My condolences.
I'm thrilled with my choice. The gals still don't put out, though.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
--
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until 1970's |
03 Jan 2006 01:06:53 PM |
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On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 22:30:12 GMT, "Andrealphus" <NOREALEMAIL10@THISADDRESS.FOAD>
wrote:
In News cd7jr11tu6bslam170ji820scelaga3g89@4ax.com,, duke at
duckgumbo32@cox.net, typed this:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 17:32:19 GMT, Mike Andrade <don't@think.so> wrote:
How many of the other Levitical proscriptions to you follow?
Get ready for the usual screed of false dichotomies, circular
reasoning, red herrings, and a host of other fallacies that avoid
factual information.
Say what? I'm a Roman Catholic.
My condolences.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Mike Andrade" |
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| Title: Re: They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until 1970's |
02 Jan 2006 04:54:06 PM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in
news:cd7jr11tu6bslam170ji820scelaga3g89@4ax.com:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 17:32:19 GMT, Mike Andrade <don't@think.so>
wrote:
How many of the other Levitical proscriptions to you follow?
Get ready for the usual screed of false dichotomies, circular
reasoning, red herrings, and a host of other fallacies that avoid
factual information.
Say what? I'm a Roman Catholic.
Good for you. I'm an American Druid. It's all about the trees, man.
--
Mike
"Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather
straps."
- Emo Philips
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| User: "newzguys" |
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| Title: Re: They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until 1970's |
02 Jan 2006 10:09:12 PM |
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duke wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 17:32:19 GMT, Mike Andrade <don't@think.so> wrote:
How many of the other Levitical proscriptions to you follow?
Get ready for the usual screed of false dichotomies, circular
reasoning, red herrings, and a host of other fallacies that avoid
factual information.
Say what? I'm a Roman Catholic.
Pope Nazinger history:
Ratzinger joined the Hitler Youth at age 14 and two years later
enrolled in an anti-aircraft unit that protected a BMW factory
making aircraft engines. The workforce included slaves from
Dachau concentration camp.
Where they killed homosexuals, hum wonder where Pope Nazinger
learned to hate homosexuals? And learned to lie that there is a
sin of homosexuality in the bible. No wonder you love the verse
Lev 20:13
Nazis of a feather, kill together.
For a full history of the concept of homosexuality see:
Legal history
http://hnn.us/articles/1539.html
Medical history
http://www.infopt.demon.co.uk/social14.htm
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until 1970's |
03 Jan 2006 01:10:13 PM |
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On 2 Jan 2006 20:09:12 -0800, "newzguys" <newzguys@yahoo.com> wrote:
Pope Nazinger history:
Ratzinger joined the Hitler Youth at age 14 and two years later
enrolled in an anti-aircraft unit that protected a BMW factory
making aircraft engines. The workforce included slaves from
Dachau concentration camp.
He left the HY.
Where they killed homosexuals, hum wonder where Pope Nazinger
learned to hate homosexuals? And learned to lie that there is a
sin of homosexuality in the bible. No wonder you love the verse
Lev 20:13
Nazis of a feather, kill together.
That's like saying that you are a male like hitler, therefore you profess
gassing Jews.
For a full history of the concept of homosexuality see:
And it's a despicable act none the less.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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