| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Drew" |
| Date: |
06 Oct 2003 07:57:38 PM |
| Object: |
Thinking about death. |
Now that I have recognized myself as an atheist, I got to thinking
about death.
Before I wasn't really religious at all (didn't go to church, pray, or
anything else) but I always thought god existed; so I always assumed
that I was going somewhere when I died.
Now that I have become an atheist I have to rethink things.
When death comes, there will be nothing. When you first start thinking
about it, it doesn't seem like big deal. But as you think about the
topic more and more you begin the implication. There is nothing
afterwards. In fact, nothing wouldn't be a good term for it since you
would feel feeling nothing.
Atheist need to confront death head on. We can't ignore it like
christians. They have basically a mental crutch when it comes to such
matters. If a loved one dies they can just disregard it and think they
will see that person in heaven.
I would be happy to know some of your guy's opinions on this topic.
.
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| User: "Dr. DuFonet" |
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| Title: Re: Thinking about death. |
07 Oct 2003 07:37:24 AM |
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"Drew" <drewish@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:eb44ovsbtjhp5mlhf0c86bv28n3nf5k1uc@4ax.com...
Now that I have recognized myself as an atheist, I got to thinking
about death.
Before I wasn't really religious at all (didn't go to church, pray, or
anything else) but I always thought god existed; so I always assumed
that I was going somewhere when I died.
Now that I have become an atheist I have to rethink things.
When death comes, there will be nothing. When you first start thinking
about it, it doesn't seem like big deal. But as you think about the
topic more and more you begin the implication. There is nothing
afterwards. In fact, nothing wouldn't be a good term for it since you
would feel feeling nothing.
Atheist need to confront death head on. We can't ignore it like
christians. They have basically a mental crutch when it comes to such
matters. If a loved one dies they can just disregard it and think they
will see that person in heaven.
I would be happy to know some of your guy's opinions on this topic.
If you think about death, then death is pursuing you. If you slow down,
death will slow down.
.
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| User: "Matthew" |
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| Title: Re: Thinking about death. |
07 Oct 2003 04:49:41 AM |
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"Drew" <drewish@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:eb44ovsbtjhp5mlhf0c86bv28n3nf5k1uc@4ax.com...
Now that I have recognized myself as an atheist, I got to thinking
about death.
Before I wasn't really religious at all (didn't go to church, pray, or
anything else) but I always thought god existed; so I always assumed
that I was going somewhere when I died.
Now that I have become an atheist I have to rethink things.
When death comes, there will be nothing. When you first start thinking
about it, it doesn't seem like big deal. But as you think about the
topic more and more you begin the implication. There is nothing
afterwards. In fact, nothing wouldn't be a good term for it since you
would feel feeling nothing.
Atheist need to confront death head on. We can't ignore it like
christians. They have basically a mental crutch when it comes to such
matters. If a loved one dies they can just disregard it and think they
will see that person in heaven.
I would be happy to know some of your guy's opinions on this topic.
Try this, you have a knowledge and understanding of the world based
primarily on the teaching of your parents and school. This teaching
represents the current accumulation of the thought and wisdom of those that
come before. Einstein, Mozart etc are dead but still they linger around in
our minds and hearts, on a more personal level we remember grand parents
etc. When you die all that you were remains to those people you meant
something to.
You also have children to pass your wisdom to, that being the sum of your
life, and your children have children.
So I suppose the main thing is have fun be someone to remember well, fall in
love have children and stop worrying about death.
.
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| User: "Clayton McCloud of the Clan McCloud...And I Am Immoral!" |
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| Title: Re: Thinking about death. |
07 Oct 2003 02:17:25 AM |
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"Drew" <drewish@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:eb44ovsbtjhp5mlhf0c86bv28n3nf5k1uc@4ax.com...
Now that I have recognized myself as an atheist, I got to thinking
about death.
Before I wasn't really religious at all (didn't go to church, pray, or
anything else) but I always thought god existed; so I always assumed
that I was going somewhere when I died.
Now that I have become an atheist I have to rethink things.
When death comes, there will be nothing. When you first start thinking
about it, it doesn't seem like big deal. But as you think about the
topic more and more you begin the implication. There is nothing
afterwards. In fact, nothing wouldn't be a good term for it since you
would feel feeling nothing.
Atheist need to confront death head on. We can't ignore it like
christians. They have basically a mental crutch when it comes to such
matters. If a loved one dies they can just disregard it and think they
will see that person in heaven.
I would be happy to know some of your guy's opinions on this topic.
Well my major thought on death is that I'm not looking forward to it...not
because of what happens to my consciousness after death because that's
purely and simply nothing...just like before I was born. I'm mainly scared
about how I die...hopefully not too prolonged or painful...and also that I
won't get to see what happens after my demise. That's why my secret wish
has always been immortality, just so I can see what happens in the
future...wishing that I could watch history play out...explore the universe
and all the wonders that humanity will hopefully grow to embrace and
explore. But that ain't gonna happen!!! However, I do believe in a
certain kind of immortality that can offer those of us not gullible or
brainwashed enough to believe the fairy tale promises of dream fulfilment
offered by religion. I am going to cut and paste what I have said a few
times before (slightly altered since last time)...because I am a very lazy
person and don't feel like typing it all out again.
*
Every molecule in my body was born in a star and after I die they may end up
in another star. Until then my body will help other life to grow...I may
become part of a billion other life forms before I return to star stuff.
Part of me will live on as long as my family line and...should I have
any...descendants live...quite possibly my unique genetic signature will
echo through humanity as long as it exists.
My works and writings, my achievements, my wisdom and foolishness, my
insight and life lessons that I pass on to others, my bravery and my fears
and prejudices will affect the world (sometimes in big ways, sometimes
small, sometimes bad, sometimes good) for generations...and the effect I had
on others as they react for or against me or even their indifference towards
me, will also echo beyond their time. Like ripples throughout society
forever, everything we all do affects the future....that's a kind of
immortality. Maybe my actions have caused people to get together and their
children will become great rulers or tyrannical despots...maybe my actions
have broken people up and changed what could have been. One day our species
may colonise the galaxy...who knows...every action all of us do may affect
the universe. ....or tomorrow our sun could explode and that's it for all
of us! Although my consciousness ends when my life ends...I have faith that
I will have a long existence. (yes I said faith)
*
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| User: "Blast Femur" |
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| Title: Re: Thinking about death. |
06 Oct 2003 08:42:40 PM |
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Drew <drewish@mchsi.com> wrote in
news:eb44ovsbtjhp5mlhf0c86bv28n3nf5k1uc@4ax.com:
Now that I have recognized myself as an atheist, I got to thinking
about death.
Before I wasn't really religious at all (didn't go to church, pray, or
anything else) but I always thought god existed; so I always assumed
that I was going somewhere when I died.
Now that I have become an atheist I have to rethink things.
When death comes, there will be nothing. When you first start thinking
about it, it doesn't seem like big deal. But as you think about the
topic more and more you begin the implication. There is nothing
afterwards. In fact, nothing wouldn't be a good term for it since you
would feel feeling nothing.
Atheist need to confront death head on. We can't ignore it like
christians. They have basically a mental crutch when it comes to such
matters. If a loved one dies they can just disregard it and think they
will see that person in heaven.
I would be happy to know some of your guy's opinions on this topic.
Yes sir, an atheist must accept his own death. It's a difficult hurdle,
but think of it this way. How did it feel *before* you were born? Can
death be any different?
--
Blast Femur
______________
So, what are you going to do with the first 18,547,387,259,122,090 years
of eternity?
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Thinking about death. |
07 Oct 2003 11:24:44 PM |
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On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 01:42:40 GMT, Blast Femur <youwish@yeah.com>
posted in alt.atheism:
Yes sir, an atheist must accept his own death. It's a difficult hurdle
One of the differences between man and the rest of the animal kingdom
is that we *can* contemplate our own non-existence.
Well, some of us can. Others make up stories about how they'll
somehow continue to exist for all eternity.
--
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious
conviction."
- Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "Blast Femur" |
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| Title: Re: Thinking about death. |
09 Oct 2003 08:09:16 PM |
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Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in
news:p947ovc0vdunpihu36d04vl88vvub6dirt@Pern.rk:
On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 01:42:40 GMT, Blast Femur <youwish@yeah.com>
posted in alt.atheism:
Yes sir, an atheist must accept his own death. It's a difficult hurdle
One of the differences between man and the rest of the animal kingdom
is that we *can* contemplate our own non-existence.
Well, some of us can. Others make up stories about how they'll
somehow continue to exist for all eternity.
Yeah, somehow they think eternal life has a beginning....
--
Blast Femur
______________
So, what are you going to do with the first 18,547,387,259,122,090 years
of eternity?
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Thinking about death. |
10 Oct 2003 08:19:15 PM |
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On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 01:09:16 GMT, Blast Femur <youwish@yeah.com>
posted in alt.atheism:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in
news:p947ovc0vdunpihu36d04vl88vvub6dirt@Pern.rk:
On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 01:42:40 GMT, Blast Femur <youwish@yeah.com>
posted in alt.atheism:
Yes sir, an atheist must accept his own death. It's a difficult hurdle
One of the differences between man and the rest of the animal kingdom
is that we *can* contemplate our own non-existence.
Well, some of us can. Others make up stories about how they'll
somehow continue to exist for all eternity.
Yeah, somehow they think eternal life has a beginning....
Not that I'd mind a few thousand more healthy years ...
--
"Damn. Looks like all of usenet agrees that you don't have the logical
faculties to prove the statement 'dogshit is not peanut butter' if we
gave you a jar of each and a box of crackers" - John Hattan to Tichy
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: Thinking about death. |
06 Oct 2003 10:01:06 PM |
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Drew <drewish@mchsi.com> wrote in
news:eb44ovsbtjhp5mlhf0c86bv28n3nf5k1uc@4ax.com:
Now that I have recognized myself as an atheist, I got to thinking
about death.
Before I wasn't really religious at all (didn't go to church, pray, or
anything else) but I always thought god existed; so I always assumed
that I was going somewhere when I died.
Now that I have become an atheist I have to rethink things.
When death comes, there will be nothing. When you first start thinking
about it, it doesn't seem like big deal. But as you think about the
topic more and more you begin the implication. There is nothing
afterwards. In fact, nothing wouldn't be a good term for it since you
would feel feeling nothing.
Atheist need to confront death head on. We can't ignore it like
christians. They have basically a mental crutch when it comes to such
matters. If a loved one dies they can just disregard it and think they
will see that person in heaven.
I would be happy to know some of your guy's opinions on this topic.
Pretty much the same. I guess that gives even more impetus to live your
life to the fullest cause you don't get a second chance.
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political institution for the control of
people's thoughts, lives, and actions; based on
ancient myths and superstitions perpetrated through
generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
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| User: "Adam Marczyk" |
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| Title: Re: Thinking about death. |
07 Oct 2003 05:36:23 PM |
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Drew <drewish@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:eb44ovsbtjhp5mlhf0c86bv28n3nf5k1uc@4ax.com...
Now that I have recognized myself as an atheist, I got to thinking
about death.
Before I wasn't really religious at all (didn't go to church, pray, or
anything else) but I always thought god existed; so I always assumed
that I was going somewhere when I died.
Now that I have become an atheist I have to rethink things.
When death comes, there will be nothing. When you first start thinking
about it, it doesn't seem like big deal. But as you think about the
topic more and more you begin the implication. There is nothing
afterwards. In fact, nothing wouldn't be a good term for it since you
would feel feeling nothing.
Atheist need to confront death head on. We can't ignore it like
christians. They have basically a mental crutch when it comes to such
matters. If a loved one dies they can just disregard it and think they
will see that person in heaven.
I would be happy to know some of your guy's opinions on this topic.
http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/stardust.html
--
"We have loved the stars too fondly | a.a. #2001
to be fearful of the night." | http://www.ebonmusings.org
--Tombstone epitaph of | e-mail: ebonmuse!hotmail.com
two amateur astronomers, | ICQ: 8777843
quoted in Carl Sagan's _Cosmos_ | PGP Key ID: 0x5C66F737
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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| User: "John Popelish" |
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| Title: Re: Thinking about death. |
06 Oct 2003 08:29:18 PM |
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Drew wrote:
(snip)
When death comes, there will be nothing. When you first start thinking
about it, it doesn't seem like big deal. But as you think about the
topic more and more you begin the implication. There is nothing
afterwards. In fact, nothing wouldn't be a good term for it since you
would feel feeling nothing.
Atheist need to confront death head on.
(ship)
That pretty well sums it up. Life is a very robust and tenacious
process on this planet and can survive almost any disaster and
eventually thrive again in some forms. But each individual life is
unique and fragile, and very temporary.
A couple weeks ago, a couple god salespeople came to my door and asked
if I had a church. I said "No." Then they asked if I believed the
Bible was the word of god, and I just wrinkled my nose like something
smelled bad and shook my head no. They immediately jumped to the
subject of afterlife and asked if I ever thought about my own death.
I pointed to my motorcycle and said, "Every time I throw a leg over."
They changed the subject to small talk and quickly moved on. They
couldn't even talk to someone who expected to die (and stay dead)
someday, soon.
--
John Popelish
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| User: "Edward Croteau" |
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| Title: Re: Thinking about death. |
06 Oct 2003 09:26:43 PM |
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"John Popelish" <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote in message
news:3F821879.8C861457@rica.net...
Drew wrote:
(snip)
When death comes, there will be nothing. When you first start thinking
about it, it doesn't seem like big deal. But as you think about the
topic more and more you begin the implication. There is nothing
afterwards. In fact, nothing wouldn't be a good term for it since you
would feel feeling nothing.
Atheist need to confront death head on.
(ship)
That pretty well sums it up. Life is a very robust and tenacious
process on this planet and can survive almost any disaster and
eventually thrive again in some forms. But each individual life is
unique and fragile, and very temporary.
A couple weeks ago, a couple god salespeople came to my door and asked
if I had a church. I said "No." Then they asked if I believed the
Bible was the word of god, and I just wrinkled my nose like something
smelled bad and shook my head no. They immediately jumped to the
subject of afterlife and asked if I ever thought about my own death.
I pointed to my motorcycle and said, "Every time I throw a leg over."
They changed the subject to small talk and quickly moved on. They
couldn't even talk to someone who expected to die (and stay dead)
someday, soon.
--
John Popelish
When you say 'soon' just what do you mean by that ?
You don't mean soon like in 'my' soon do ya..
approx a year.
Ed.............................(Oldguyteck)
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| User: "John Popelish" |
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| Title: Re: Thinking about death. |
06 Oct 2003 10:11:13 PM |
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Edward Croteau wrote:
"John Popelish" <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote in message
news:3F821879.8C861457@rica.net...
Drew wrote:
(snip)
When death comes, there will be nothing. When you first start thinking
about it, it doesn't seem like big deal. But as you think about the
topic more and more you begin the implication. There is nothing
afterwards. In fact, nothing wouldn't be a good term for it since you
would feel feeling nothing.
Atheist need to confront death head on.
(ship)
That pretty well sums it up. Life is a very robust and tenacious
process on this planet and can survive almost any disaster and
eventually thrive again in some forms. But each individual life is
unique and fragile, and very temporary.
A couple weeks ago, a couple god salespeople came to my door and asked
if I had a church. I said "No." Then they asked if I believed the
Bible was the word of god, and I just wrinkled my nose like something
smelled bad and shook my head no. They immediately jumped to the
subject of afterlife and asked if I ever thought about my own death.
I pointed to my motorcycle and said, "Every time I throw a leg over."
They changed the subject to small talk and quickly moved on. They
couldn't even talk to someone who expected to die (and stay dead)
someday, soon.
--
John Popelish
When you say 'soon' just what do you mean by that ?
You don't mean soon like in 'my' soon do ya..
approx a year.
Ed.............................(Oldguyteck)
I mean in a cosmic blink.
--
John Popelish
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| User: "EvilAllahtm" |
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| Title: Re: Thinking about death. |
06 Oct 2003 08:35:01 PM |
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Drew wrote:
Now that I have recognized myself as an atheist, I got to thinking
about death.
Before I wasn't really religious at all (didn't go to church, pray, or
anything else) but I always thought god existed; so I always assumed
that I was going somewhere when I died.
Now that I have become an atheist I have to rethink things.
When death comes, there will be nothing. When you first start thinking
about it, it doesn't seem like big deal. But as you think about the
topic more and more you begin the implication. There is nothing
afterwards. In fact, nothing wouldn't be a good term for it since you
would feel feeling nothing.
Atheist need to confront death head on. We can't ignore it like
christians. They have basically a mental crutch when it comes to such
matters. If a loved one dies they can just disregard it and think they
will see that person in heaven.
I would be happy to know some of your guy's opinions on this topic.
I wouldn't say there's /nothing/, your body, composed of minerals that have
existed since the birth of the solar system, will decompose and be eaten by
smaller creatures, who in turn will someday be eaten by someone else. I
wouldn't consider anything that is reabsorbed into a living ecosystem to
ever really be dead, and if that's disregarding the subject on my part than
so be it.
.
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| User: "Drew" |
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| Title: Re: Thinking about death. |
06 Oct 2003 08:53:40 PM |
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"EvilAllah(tm)" <evlallah@bogusaddress.net> wrote:
I wouldn't say there's /nothing/, your body, composed of minerals that have
existed since the birth of the solar system, will decompose and be eaten by
smaller creatures, who in turn will someday be eaten by someone else. I
wouldn't consider anything that is reabsorbed into a living ecosystem to
ever really be dead, and if that's disregarding the subject on my part than
so be it.
That's a the morbid way to think about it. But I am talking on the
level of ones conscience.
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| User: "EvilAllahtm" |
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| Title: Re: Thinking about death. |
07 Oct 2003 05:02:30 PM |
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Drew wrote:
"EvilAllah(tm)" <evlallah@bogusaddress.net> wrote:
I wouldn't say there's /nothing/, your body, composed of minerals that
have existed since the birth of the solar system, will decompose and be
eaten by smaller creatures, who in turn will someday be eaten by someone
else. I wouldn't consider anything that is reabsorbed into a living
ecosystem to ever really be dead, and if that's disregarding the subject
on my part than so be it.
That's a the morbid way to think about it. But I am talking on the
level of ones conscience.
I don't consider it morbid; I consider it natural. It's been that way since
many billions of years before there were any humans to question it. Hell,
I'd almost go so far as to call it beautiful.
What I think you fear is not death, but non existence. I have to admit I
fear it too, I think everyone does. The will to survive is embedded deep in
our brains, in the parts we inherited from the reptiles. Our consciousness
is just another of the brain's functions, chemical and electrical in
nature, which will, of course, die along with the rest of the body.
However, rather than invent a magical place for my consciousness (or
'soul') to travel to and be ecstatically happy in after my death, I take
comfort that my life was not in vain, and the minerals that I am made up of
will benefit thousands of other creatures in their quest for survival.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Thinking about death. |
07 Oct 2003 11:22:28 PM |
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On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 01:53:40 GMT, Drew <drewish@mchsi.com> posted in
alt.atheism:
"EvilAllah(tm)" <evlallah@bogusaddress.net> wrote:
I wouldn't say there's /nothing/, your body, composed of minerals that have
existed since the birth of the solar system, will decompose and be eaten by
smaller creatures, who in turn will someday be eaten by someone else. I
wouldn't consider anything that is reabsorbed into a living ecosystem to
ever really be dead, and if that's disregarding the subject on my part than
so be it.
That's a the morbid way to think about it. But I am talking on the
level of ones conscience.
What happens to the light when you turn the bulb off?
Same thing happens to your conscience (and your consciousness) when
circumstances turn your brain off. *You*, the thing that makes you
think of yourself as "yourself", just doesn't exist any longer.
Dying can be very painful. Death isn't.
--
"Every sensible man, every honest man, must hold the christian sect in horror. 'But what
shall we substitute in its place?' you say. What? A ferocious animal has sucked the
blood of my relatives. I tell you to rid yourselves of this beast and you ask me what
you shall put in its place?" - Voltaire
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "LP" |
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| Title: Re: Thinking about death. |
07 Oct 2003 12:43:16 AM |
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On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 01:53:40 GMT, Drew <drewish@mchsi.com> wrote:
"EvilAllah(tm)" <evlallah@bogusaddress.net> wrote:
I wouldn't say there's /nothing/, your body, composed of minerals that have
existed since the birth of the solar system, will decompose and be eaten by
smaller creatures, who in turn will someday be eaten by someone else. I
wouldn't consider anything that is reabsorbed into a living ecosystem to
ever really be dead, and if that's disregarding the subject on my part than
so be it.
That's a the morbid way to think about it. But I am talking on the
level of ones conscience.
Do YOU have a conscience?
When you say "YOU" have a conscience, what is this "YOU" that is being
referred to?
Maybe "YOU" and "conscience" are the same thing.
If that is the case, then one cannot have a conscience.
If one IS a conscience, then the next question is, does the conscience
have a brain, or does the brain have a conscience?
If "YOU" and "conscience" are the same thing, then what is it that
controls your conscience?
What are your thoughts on these questions?
.
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| User: "Drew" |
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| Title: Re: Thinking about death. |
07 Oct 2003 02:48:07 PM |
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LP <whirl_pool@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 01:53:40 GMT, Drew <drewish@mchsi.com> wrote:
"EvilAllah(tm)" <evlallah@bogusaddress.net> wrote:
Do YOU have a conscience?
When you say "YOU" have a conscience, what is this "YOU" that is being
referred to?
Maybe "YOU" and "conscience" are the same thing.
If that is the case, then one cannot have a conscience.
If one IS a conscience, then the next question is, does the conscience
have a brain, or does the brain have a conscience?
If "YOU" and "conscience" are the same thing, then what is it that
controls your conscience?
What are your thoughts on these questions?
What I mean is one's thoughts.
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| User: "LP" |
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| Title: Re: Thinking about death. |
07 Oct 2003 10:42:38 PM |
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On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 19:48:07 GMT, Drew <drewish@mchsi.com> wrote:
LP <whirl_pool@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 01:53:40 GMT, Drew <drewish@mchsi.com> wrote:
"EvilAllah(tm)" <evlallah@bogusaddress.net> wrote:
Do YOU have a conscience?
When you say "YOU" have a conscience, what is this "YOU" that is being
referred to?
Maybe "YOU" and "conscience" are the same thing.
If that is the case, then one cannot have a conscience.
If one IS a conscience, then the next question is, does the conscience
have a brain, or does the brain have a conscience?
If "YOU" and "conscience" are the same thing, then what is it that
controls your conscience?
What are your thoughts on these questions?
What I mean is one's thoughts.
But aren't you and your thoughts the same thing?
Once "thoughts" are taken out of the picture, there is nothing left.
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| User: "Levy Oates" |
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| Title: Re: Thinking about death. |
07 Oct 2003 02:01:00 AM |
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On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 01:53:40 GMT, Drew <drewish@mchsi.com> wrote:
"EvilAllah(tm)" <evlallah@bogusaddress.net> wrote:
I wouldn't say there's /nothing/, your body, composed of minerals that have
existed since the birth of the solar system, will decompose and be eaten by
smaller creatures, who in turn will someday be eaten by someone else. I
wouldn't consider anything that is reabsorbed into a living ecosystem to
ever really be dead, and if that's disregarding the subject on my part than
so be it.
That's a the morbid way to think about it. But I am talking on the
level of ones conscience.
I don't think it's that morbid. I fancy having a tree planted over my grave. I
rather like the idea of bits of me becoming a tree.
---------
Archdeacom Levy Oates
On behalf of the Prophet Eric Peabody (pbuh)
Basingstoke, England
http://www.angelfire.com/alt/bumblism/
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| User: "Kermit" |
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| Title: Re: Thinking about death. |
06 Oct 2003 09:38:21 PM |
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I have (of course) considered my own demise.. and i have to be honest and
say its not a very thrilling prospect !!.
But u have got me thinking ... how bloody typical of humans to think they
should somehow exist forever !!...
If we focused more on making this life more worthwhile for everyone..maybe
the place wouldnt be so screwed up
Steve
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| User: "Bill, The Avender" |
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| Title: Re: Thinking about death. |
06 Oct 2003 10:37:59 PM |
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In alt.atheism on Tue, 07 Oct 2003 00:57:38 GMT, Drew
<drewish@mchsi.com> wrote:
Now that I have recognized myself as an atheist, I got to thinking
about death.
Before I wasn't really religious at all (didn't go to church, pray, or
anything else) but I always thought god existed; so I always assumed
that I was going somewhere when I died.
Now that I have become an atheist I have to rethink things.
When death comes, there will be nothing. When you first start thinking
about it, it doesn't seem like big deal. But as you think about the
topic more and more you begin the implication. There is nothing
afterwards. In fact, nothing wouldn't be a good term for it since you
would feel feeling nothing.
Atheist need to confront death head on. We can't ignore it like
christians. They have basically a mental crutch when it comes to such
matters. If a loved one dies they can just disregard it and think they
will see that person in heaven.
I would be happy to know some of your guy's opinions on this topic.
My "deeper" thoughts on the matter might seem a bit strange for this
group, as they tend to invoke things like quantum physics,
temporo-spatial "mechanics" and the like. The short of the long is
that I view all things as essentially the same thing. The differences
between "you" and "me" are illusory, tricks of the mind as it
interprets reality into segregated "time" and "space" aspects. When
this body dies, "I" will still exist - in everyone and everything, as
I do now, and as everyone and everything exists in me, in the same
sense.
It's something like the working of the gears within a wind-up clock.
One gear is here and one gear is there. The gears have to work in odd
ways in order to make the clock work. Some gears work together, some
gears oppose each other - one gear pulls this way, another gear pushes
that thus yanking the first gear back into line... In this way, each
gear expresses its "individuality". They're all over the place,
acting differently, looking differently, functioning differently, yet
following natural, virtually immutable processes. But in the end,
it's the same energy - the same turning of the key, the same winding
of the coil - that moves them all.
I can try to expand on this, but it's really not the type of thing
that lends itself easily to direct, verbal explanation. :-) I've not
studied it, but from the scraps I've heard here and there, I think
I've developed a worldview that could probably find voice in some
forms of Bhuddism(sp?), particularly if they shun the idea of ego as
"important", or even of the ego as "real".
--
L8r,
Avender
- -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - --
Common is the man who can be fashioned into a
reflection of the era in which he lives.
Rare is the man who can take the era in which
he lives, and fashion it into a reflection
of himself.
- -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - --
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| User: "LP" |
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| Title: Re: Thinking about death. |
07 Oct 2003 12:55:17 AM |
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On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 03:37:59 GMT, (Bill, The
Avender) wrote:
In alt.atheism on Tue, 07 Oct 2003 00:57:38 GMT, Drew
<drewish@mchsi.com> wrote:
Now that I have recognized myself as an atheist, I got to thinking
about death.
Before I wasn't really religious at all (didn't go to church, pray, or
anything else) but I always thought god existed; so I always assumed
that I was going somewhere when I died.
Now that I have become an atheist I have to rethink things.
When death comes, there will be nothing. When you first start thinking
about it, it doesn't seem like big deal. But as you think about the
topic more and more you begin the implication. There is nothing
afterwards. In fact, nothing wouldn't be a good term for it since you
would feel feeling nothing.
Atheist need to confront death head on. We can't ignore it like
christians. They have basically a mental crutch when it comes to such
matters. If a loved one dies they can just disregard it and think they
will see that person in heaven.
I would be happy to know some of your guy's opinions on this topic.
My "deeper" thoughts on the matter might seem a bit strange for this
group, as they tend to invoke things like quantum physics,
temporo-spatial "mechanics" and the like. The short of the long is
that I view all things as essentially the same thing. The differences
between "you" and "me" are illusory, tricks of the mind as it
interprets reality into segregated "time" and "space" aspects. When
this body dies, "I" will still exist - in everyone and everything, as
I do now, and as everyone and everything exists in me, in the same
sense.
It's something like the working of the gears within a wind-up clock.
One gear is here and one gear is there. The gears have to work in odd
ways in order to make the clock work. Some gears work together, some
gears oppose each other - one gear pulls this way, another gear pushes
that thus yanking the first gear back into line... In this way, each
gear expresses its "individuality". They're all over the place,
acting differently, looking differently, functioning differently, yet
following natural, virtually immutable processes. But in the end,
it's the same energy - the same turning of the key, the same winding
of the coil - that moves them all.
I can try to expand on this, but it's really not the type of thing
that lends itself easily to direct, verbal explanation. :-) I've not
studied it, but from the scraps I've heard here and there, I think
I've developed a worldview that could probably find voice in some
forms of Bhuddism(sp?), particularly if they shun the idea of ego as
"important", or even of the ego as "real".
If you are interested in reading more about the types of concepts you
have hinted at in the paragraphs above, you may want to check out one
(or both) of these books by Alan Watts
The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0679723005
This Is It, and Other Essays on Zen and Spiritual Experience
by Alan Wilson, Watts
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0394719042
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| User: "*Nemo*" |
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| Title: Re: Thinking about death. |
07 Oct 2003 04:57:24 AM |
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In article <eb44ovsbtjhp5mlhf0c86bv28n3nf5k1uc@4ax.com>,
Drew <drewish@mchsi.com> wrote:
Now that I have recognized myself as an atheist, I got to thinking
about death.
Before I wasn't really religious at all (didn't go to church, pray, or
anything else) but I always thought god existed; so I always assumed
that I was going somewhere when I died.
Now that I have become an atheist I have to rethink things.
When death comes, there will be nothing. When you first start thinking
about it, it doesn't seem like big deal. But as you think about the
topic more and more you begin the implication. There is nothing
afterwards. In fact, nothing wouldn't be a good term for it since you
would feel feeling nothing.
Atheist need to confront death head on. We can't ignore it like
christians. They have basically a mental crutch when it comes to such
matters. If a loved one dies they can just disregard it and think they
will see that person in heaven.
I would be happy to know some of your guy's opinions on this topic.
I liked Mark Twain's view of death. He said something like: I was dead
for millions of years before I was born, and it doesn't seem to have
harmed me.
Dying is simply part of life. True, it's a tragedy that makes those who
love the person who is no longer there sad, but that's part of life,
too. We have to find some way of coming to terms with it, whether we
deny the finality of death or not.
One thing that interests me is the way people view the issue. Some worry
about the death of those around them more than their own death. Others
seem to think the other way, that their own death is more to be worried
about than that of friends or relatives.
My view is that there's nothing to be done to avoid death forever. My
death will cause financial hardship to my family, and (fairly likely)
emotional hardships, too. I can't really do anything to take away the
emotional problems, and I'm not sure I would choose to do so even if I
could. But I have done what I can to minimize my family's financial
burden in the event of my death, and that's what matters to me most
rearding my death.
After all, I can't help but accept that all life is finite. Once you
learn to accept that, everything else pretty well falls into place.
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
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| User: "Gregory Gadow" |
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| Title: Re: Thinking about death. |
07 Oct 2003 10:11:04 AM |
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*Nemo* wrote:
I liked Mark Twain's view of death. He said something like: I was dead
for millions of years before I was born, and it doesn't seem to have
harmed me.
Works for me :-)
Dying is simply part of life. True, it's a tragedy that makes those who
love the person who is no longer there sad, but that's part of life,
too. We have to find some way of coming to terms with it, whether we
deny the finality of death or not.
One thing that interests me is the way people view the issue. Some worry
about the death of those around them more than their own death. Others
seem to think the other way, that their own death is more to be worried
about than that of friends or relatives.
My view is that there's nothing to be done to avoid death forever. My
death will cause financial hardship to my family, and (fairly likely)
emotional hardships, too. I can't really do anything to take away the
emotional problems, and I'm not sure I would choose to do so even if I
could. But I have done what I can to minimize my family's financial
burden in the event of my death, and that's what matters to me most
rearding my death.
After all, I can't help but accept that all life is finite. Once you
learn to accept that, everything else pretty well falls into place.
The thought of dying is one area where my neo-Pagan background gives me
comfort. Death is not merely an consequence of living, but an integral part,
two halves of the same whole. It makes room for new life. As long as I can
leave the world a better place for my having lived, why should I fear death?
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
Is your faith so weak and your god so powerless
that, without government endorsement of your
religion, all hell will break loose?
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Thinking about death. |
08 Oct 2003 09:20:58 PM |
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On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 08:11:04 -0700, Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net>,
Message ID: <3F82D788.69404109@serv.net> wrote in alt.atheism;
*Nemo* wrote:
I liked Mark Twain's view of death. He said something like: I was dead
for millions of years before I was born, and it doesn't seem to have
harmed me.
Works for me :-)
Dying is simply part of life. True, it's a tragedy that makes those who
love the person who is no longer there sad, but that's part of life,
too. We have to find some way of coming to terms with it, whether we
deny the finality of death or not.
One thing that interests me is the way people view the issue. Some worry
about the death of those around them more than their own death. Others
seem to think the other way, that their own death is more to be worried
about than that of friends or relatives.
My view is that there's nothing to be done to avoid death forever. My
death will cause financial hardship to my family, and (fairly likely)
emotional hardships, too. I can't really do anything to take away the
emotional problems, and I'm not sure I would choose to do so even if I
could. But I have done what I can to minimize my family's financial
burden in the event of my death, and that's what matters to me most
rearding my death.
After all, I can't help but accept that all life is finite. Once you
learn to accept that, everything else pretty well falls into place.
The thought of dying is one area where my neo-Pagan background gives me
comfort. Death is not merely an consequence of living, but an integral part,
two halves of the same whole. It makes room for new life. As long as I can
leave the world a better place for my having lived, why should I fear death?
Yes, it is an integral part. I don't fear death. Perhaps such is
because I've almost died several times-was seconds away once.
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Thinking about death. |
07 Oct 2003 12:47:09 AM |
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In article <eb44ovsbtjhp5mlhf0c86bv28n3nf5k1uc@4ax.com>,
Drew <drewish@mchsi.com> wrote:
Now that I have recognized myself as an atheist, I got to thinking
about death.
Before I wasn't really religious at all (didn't go to church, pray, or
anything else) but I always thought god existed; so I always assumed
that I was going somewhere when I died.
Now that I have become an atheist I have to rethink things.
When death comes, there will be nothing. When you first start thinking
about it, it doesn't seem like big deal. But as you think about the
topic more and more you begin the implication. There is nothing
afterwards. In fact, nothing wouldn't be a good term for it since you
would feel feeling nothing.
Atheist need to confront death head on. We can't ignore it like
christians. They have basically a mental crutch when it comes to such
matters. If a loved one dies they can just disregard it and think they
will see that person in heaven.
I would be happy to know some of your guy's opinions on this topic.
Since death is inevitable, I don't worry too much about it. I just try
to take reasonably good care of myself and try to enjoy life as much
as possible.
--
John Hachmann, aa #1782
Pierre Laplace, when asked by Napoleon on why he made
no mention of a god in his book on astronomy: "Sire,
I have no need of that hypothesis."
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Thinking about death. |
06 Oct 2003 08:04:09 PM |
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On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 00:57:38 +0000, Drew wrote:
Atheist need to confront death head on. We can't ignore it like
christians.
Pretty much.
Then again, what was it like before you were born?
--
Mark K. Bilbo
From alt.atheism only
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| User: "MarkA" |
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| Title: Re: Thinking about death. |
07 Oct 2003 06:22:46 AM |
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On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 00:57:38 +0000, Drew wrote:
People fear death. That much is instinct. They assuage their fear by
convincing themselves that after they die, they will "live forever" in
Heaven.
If you really think about it, though, the prospect of living forever is
far more frightening than the prospect of dying. Forever is a really long
time. Try to imagine being alive for the entire history of the Universe,
12-15 billion years. Imagine living that long a billion times over. You
haven't even scratched the surface of "forever."
A: What are we going to do today?
B: We could count all the grains of sand on all the beaches of all the
planets in the entire universe, then destroy the universe, create a new
one, and do it all over again.
A: We did that yesterday.
If God exists, and really does live forever, no wonder He's insane.
--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
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| User: "Mekkala" |
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| Title: Re: Thinking about death. |
07 Oct 2003 02:03:17 PM |
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On 07 Oct 2003, "MarkA" <manthony@stopspam.net> screwed up his face,
groaned, pushed hard, and farted out the following message in
news:pan.2003.10.07.11.22.30.247003@stopspam.net:
On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 00:57:38 +0000, Drew wrote:
People fear death. That much is instinct. They assuage their fear by
convincing themselves that after they die, they will "live forever" in
Heaven.
If you really think about it, though, the prospect of living forever
is far more frightening than the prospect of dying. Forever is a
really long time. Try to imagine being alive for the entire history
of the Universe, 12-15 billion years. Imagine living that long a
billion times over. You haven't even scratched the surface of
"forever."
A: What are we going to do today?
B: We could count all the grains of sand on all the beaches of all the
planets in the entire universe, then destroy the universe, create a
new one, and do it all over again.
A: We did that yesterday.
If God exists, and really does live forever, no wonder He's insane.
Well, I would love to be immortal (in the sense of not dying from old
age or disease), not because I'd want to live forever (I most certainly
wouldn't) but because I could choose when I wanted to die. There are so
many things I'd like to see and do, but can't because I won't have
enough time. I'd like to be able to live long enough to see and do all
those things, then die peacefully, happy to have experiences the rich
things I'll have experienced.
--
Mekkala, Atheist #2148
"When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly
realized I was talking to myself!"
--Peter O'Toole.
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