Thomas P. <tonyofbexarremovethis@yahoo.dk> wrote in message

On 24 Apr 2004 20:52:23 -0700,

Thomas P. <tonyofbexarremovethis@yahoo.dk> wrote in message

On 23 Apr 2004 22:25:39 -0700,

It is also just possible that you do not know what you are talking

It might also be possible that the people who disagree with you

evil,

They are not evil because they don't accept my word, they are evil

they deny God and God's word.

I am rejecting what you claim is god's word. The fact that I do not
believe you does not make me evil. Just because you say it is god's
word does not make it true. Just because you say the Bible is the
word of god does not make it so.

Rejecting what I say is one thing, but rejecting God and His word is
sinful. That makes you God's enemy and therefore evil.

Why did you ignore what I said above? I have never rejected the word
of any god. I have rejected the words of men when they claimed to be
quoting the words of some god. I have rejected the claim that the
Bible is the word of some god. I have done that because there is no
reason to do otherwise.

Just because you reject it Thomas, does not mean that what
you are rejecting isn't God's word. You don't get to make
the determination as to whether or not the Bible is the word
of God. You only have your opinion, and your opinion is no
more fact than you attribute to what I believe.

In your

sentimental, humanistic pov you're basically good by your own
standards rather than God's. Nothing is true by virtue of the fact
that I say it, truth comes from God's word. You may believe that
if I am right, that you will have some kind of loophole, because
you just could not detect any evidence for the existence of God,
but you will find out that you are without excuse.

I am not able to believe something that sounds incredible to me and
for which no evidence exists. Not only is there is no evidence, the
story is contradictory and illogical.

You are still held accountable for your failure to believe.

It would be both courteous and honest if you would stop attributing
motives to me. You are not able to read my mind.

What you write reveals what is on your mind. Besides I used the
qualifiers may and if. Well, Thomas what if I am right, where
does that leave you?

If there is a God, and the Bible is His word, then the truth of
the matter is that evidence for God is innate, but is suppressed,
ignored, denied and rejected by sinful man. That is how you fail
to see the complexity of creation and yet deny that a Designer
is essential.

The problem is that there is no reason to believe that there is a god
or that the Bible is his word.

Many millions of believers past, present and future have, do
and will vigorously disagree with your findings.

snip

Do you really think that your responses to my posts truly reflect

stated above concerning my beliefs? Are you not arrogant regarding

beliefs and intolerant of theistic belief?

I totally respect your right to your beliefs. I have no respect
however, for your beliefs.

This gives the illusion of fair mindedness in a humanistic
way, but it's not God's way.

Your god is irrational? What about my position is unfair?

He is pure reason, and it is He who has determined what our
rights are concerning what we believe about Him.

Unbelievers are tolerant of many human behaviors that God calls sin, but
it makes them feel good about themselves to be considered
tolerant.

snip

No, I didn't cite these verses because I thought you would be
persuaded to accept them as truth. I know better than that.
But I do accept them as the truth, now you tell be how I can
be tolerant of the opinions and beliefs of mere men when the
very opinions, views and beliefs they hold conflict with the
word of God?

They conflict with what you believe to be the word of god. They are
your opinions. You have a right to them. Nobody is, however,

to believe what you believe.

I am not the one who can oblige anyone to believe, but there is
One who does, and He is the one with whom you have to do.

That is your belief. You have no evidence for it. I do not believe
you. You might as well threaten me with the boogie man. So far no
god has obliged me to do anything.

Jesus is the most perfect and complete evidence for
God there is.

If god appeared to me and established he
was god (naturally he would be able to do that),

God lives in unapproachable light, no one can look upon his
face and live. Be careful of what you ask for.

In other words you have no evidence to present.

I would be obliged to
accept his existence; I am not obliged to believe you.

If a person reveals to you God's truth, you are not obliged
to believe that person as such, but God makes it your
obligation to believe His truth for His truth's sake.

No god has obliged me to believe anything. All I have heard is men
telling me what they believe.

God works through men as His instruments to witness to
other men. Surely you know this, but no man has the
power to make you savingly believe.

Thomas P. <tonyofbexarremovethis@yahoo.dk> wrote in message news:<4aqm80lljkieg5a2cpl0cgn5qkev1vc1t2@4ax.com>...

On 24 Apr 2004 20:52:23 -0700,

Thomas P. <tonyofbexarremovethis@yahoo.dk> wrote in message news:<d29k80h51cls24bj4fi1hln75n77qv30gl@4ax.com>...

On 23 Apr 2004 22:25:39 -0700,

It is also just possible that you do not know what you are talking about.
It might also be possible that the people who disagree with you are not
evil,

They are not evil because they don't accept my word, they are evil because
they deny God and God's word.

I am rejecting what you claim is god's word. The fact that I do not
believe you does not make me evil. Just because you say it is god's
word does not make it true. Just because you say the Bible is the
word of god does not make it so.

Rejecting what I say is one thing, but rejecting God and His word is
sinful. That makes you God's enemy and therefore evil.

Why did you ignore what I said above? I have never rejected the word
of any god. I have rejected the words of men when they claimed to be
quoting the words of some god. I have rejected the claim that the
Bible is the word of some god. I have done that because there is no
reason to do otherwise.

Just because you reject it Thomas, does not mean that what
you are rejecting isn't God's word.

You don't get to make
the determination as to whether or not the Bible is the word
of God. You only have your opinion, and your opinion is no
more fact than you attribute to what I believe.

In your

sentimental, humanistic pov you're basically good by your own
standards rather than God's. Nothing is true by virtue of the fact
that I say it, truth comes from God's word. You may believe that
if I am right, that you will have some kind of loophole, because
you just could not detect any evidence for the existence of God,
but you will find out that you are without excuse.

I am not able to believe something that sounds incredible to me and
for which no evidence exists. Not only is there is no evidence, the
story is contradictory and illogical.

You are still held accountable for your failure to believe.

It would be both courteous and honest if you would stop attributing
motives to me. You are not able to read my mind.

What you write reveals what is on your mind.

Besides I used the
qualifiers may and if.

Well, Thomas what if I am right, where
does that leave you?

If there is a God, and the Bible is His word, then the truth of
the matter is that evidence for God is innate, but is suppressed,
ignored, denied and rejected by sinful man. That is how you fail
to see the complexity of creation and yet deny that a Designer
is essential.

The problem is that there is no reason to believe that there is a god
or that the Bible is his word.

Many millions of believers past, present and future have, do
and will vigorously disagree with your findings.

snip

Do you really think that your responses to my posts truly reflect what you
stated above concerning my beliefs? Are you not arrogant regarding your
beliefs and intolerant of theistic belief?

I totally respect your right to your beliefs. I have no respect
however, for your beliefs.

This gives the illusion of fair mindedness in a humanistic
way, but it's not God's way.

Your god is irrational? What about my position is unfair?

He is pure reason, and it is He who has determined what our
rights are concerning what we believe about Him. Unbelievers
are tolerant of many human behaviors that God calls sin, but
it makes them feel good about themselves to be considered
tolerant.

snip

No, I didn't cite these verses because I thought you would be
persuaded to accept them as truth. I know better than that.
But I do accept them as the truth, now you tell be how I can
be tolerant of the opinions and beliefs of mere men when the
very opinions, views and beliefs they hold conflict with the
word of God?

They conflict with what you believe to be the word of god. They are
your opinions. You have a right to them. Nobody is, however, obliged
to believe what you believe.

I am not the one who can oblige anyone to believe, but there is
One who does, and He is the one with whom you have to do.

That is your belief. You have no evidence for it. I do not believe
you. You might as well threaten me with the boogie man. So far no
god has obliged me to do anything.

Jesus is the most perfect and complete evidence for
God there is.

If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father
also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have
seen him. John 14:7...he that hath seen me hath
seen the Father...v9
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast
seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they
that have not seen, and yet have believed.
John 20:29

God works through imperfect mankind, but I hope
you will meet someone in whom you will be able
to see the glory of Jesus manifested in him/her.

If god appeared to me and established he
was god (naturally he would be able to do that),

God lives in unapproachable light, no one can look upon his
face and live. Be careful of what you ask for.

In other words you have no evidence to present.

I would be obliged to
accept his existence; I am not obliged to believe you.

If a person reveals to you God's truth, you are not obliged
to believe that person as such, but God makes it your
obligation to believe His truth for His truth's sake.

No god has obliged me to believe anything. All I have heard is men
telling me what they believe.

God works through men as His instruments to witness to
other men. Surely you know this, but no man has the
power to make you savingly believe.

remembering a story from Uncle Tom's cabin.

Two Dogs & the Egg

"Never forget," my uncle was saying, "the lesson of the two dogs and
the egg."

We were sitting on the front porch in the afternoon sun, soaking in
the warmth of its rays. That warmth was very welcomed on that crisp
January day. So was the perfectly blue sky, and the bright sunlight
reflecting on white snow.

I puzzled over his remark. How could a story about two dogs and an
egg have any meaningful or spiritual application? My Uncle Tom has a
strange way of thinking and talking, at times. It isn't always easy
to follow his line of thought.

He saw the look on my face and so he offered a little hint.

"The two dogs would've had little to argue about," he said, "had the
egg not been hardboiled. A raw egg would've simply broken and
spilled, but the boiled egg held its shape, rolling all around even
after the shell had been cracked. So here's the application: Because
it remained a little while, it continued to give them something to
fight over."

"Yes, but what does a boiled egg have to do with the Bible?" I asked
the question, but I was already beginning to see where he must be
going with this.

"Because the Bible remains," he said, "and cannot be dispelled,
disproven, dismissed, or weakened by the bitter attacks of those who
hate the true God. No matter what unbelievers say or do, or what laws
they manage to have passed in this or that nation, the Bible remains
the same from generation to generation. Therefore, the controversy
over the Scriptures will continue until the end of time. Until Jesus
Christ Himself returns to settle things on earth."

And there you have it, I thought to myself. As always, I had to go
and ask. But like it or not, I could see his point. After all, it
was true.

The Bible remains powerful because it has the very power of God
Himself behind it and all through it. In fact, the message of
Scripture is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who
believes it. The Bible alone is faithful to always point to Jesus
Christ, no matter what. And Jesus Christ is the only way to eternal
life.

No matter how you look at it, the Word of God can only be as powerful
as the God who speaks it and who also backs it up. As the word of any
human being is only as powerful or as great as that person, so it is
with Scripture in the Bible. The Bible carries the power of the
Spirit of God (see John 6:63) who caused it to be written, and who
causes it to remain.

The Bible has been attacked for thousands of years -- even centuries
before Jesus Christ was born as a human being -- but it has never lost
any of its ability to transform all who believe it into God's own
children. In fact, today there are more Bibles, in more translations
available in more locations than at any earlier time in history.
Millions of Bibles find their way into China, India, and other regions
of the world where the Scriptures may even be outlawed.

But don't get me wrong. The Bible is not a magical object. I mean,
it doesn't glow in the dark or anything. Owning a Bible, touching a
Bible, reading a Bible ? none of these things save us. But allowing
God's Holy Spirit to speak to us, as He applies the words and
testimony of Scripture to our own hearts, that can lead us to faith
in Jesus Christ, which leads to the confession and forgiveness of sin,
and to eternal life with God.

And so the spiritual war goes on. Satan tries in many clever (but
very, very obvious) ways, in every generation, to destroy, to
belittle, to do away with what God has said. Even the ancient prophet
Jeremiah had to rewrite his entire book of prophecy, because as it was
being read aloud to the king (Jehoiakim) of Judah, it was being cut
from the scroll and thrown into the fire (see Jeremiah 36).

Jeremiah's prophecy was a much-hated message, as are all the Holy
Scriptures in the Bible. But Jeremiah had his assistant help him
gather all the notes and scraps together so they could produce another
edition of the message God had given him.

Scripture says it this way:
Now, after the king had burned the scroll with the words that Baruch
wrote at Jeremiah's dictation, the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah:
"Take another scroll and write on it all the former words that were in
the first scroll, which King Jehoiakim of Judah has burned?."

And so Jeremiah set to work, gathering all the scraps and notes he had
piled up over the years, and putting them back into a single scroll.
The result was a book that was even bigger, with even more prophetic
words than the first one. As the Bible says: "Then Jeremiah took
another scroll and gave it to the secretary Baruch son of Neriah, who
wrote on it, at Jeremiah's dictation, all the words of the scroll that
King Jehoiakim of Judah had burned in the fire; and many similar words
were added to them."

(It's interesting -- to me, anyway -- to note that while the book of
Isaiah has been divided into 14 more chapters than Jeremiah, the
prophecy of Jeremiah still has "more words". Wherever sin abounds,
God's grace will always much more abound. And the Lord has even taken
the very enemy of the Gospel and transformed him into a preacher of
the Gospel -- time and time again in history. Hallelujah!)

The Bible has endured many attacks in the past, and it continues to be
under constant attack today. But it has already had a profound impact
on modern human civilization, even in nations that are not Christian
at all. And it's still transforming human lives all around the world
-- right now while you read these words.

Whoever follows Jesus Christ can do himself harm by ignoring the
Scriptures, but he can also do himself much good by reading the Bible
daily. Nothing helps the heart & life like God's living and
unbreakable Word. Nothing silences the raging stupidity of this dark
age like God's Word. As the old slogan goes, never leave home without
it. Spend some time alone with Scripture every day.

So I guess I have to agree with what my Uncle Tom was saying.

Had the Bible failed to be the very power of God unto salvation for
generation after generation, it would've faded away long, long ago.
But since it remains supremely powerful -- in every succeeding
generation -- to transform broken and ruined human lives, and to alter
even the world itself, it's still here. And foolish people, whose
hearts are darkened, still rage against it.

The fact that those who hate God most also hate the Scriptures and
openly attack them says it all. And at the same time, whoever knows
and loves the Lord Jesus Christ will also honor His Word, relying on
God for direction, teaching and strength in all of life.

Praise God that His Word continues to do the work of God in the hearts
of everyone who loves the Lord Jesus Christ. Whoever continues to
live according to the words and teachings of our Lord in the
Scriptures, proves to be a true disciple and follower of Jesus Christ.
Amen.

Jim

remembering a story from Uncle Tom's cabin.

Two Dogs & the Egg

"Never forget," my uncle was saying, "the lesson of the two dogs and
the egg."

We were sitting on the front porch in the afternoon sun, soaking in
the warmth of its rays. That warmth was very welcomed on that crisp
January day. So was the perfectly blue sky, and the bright sunlight
reflecting on white snow.

I puzzled over his remark. How could a story about two dogs and an
egg have any meaningful or spiritual application? My Uncle Tom has a
strange way of thinking and talking, at times. It isn't always easy
to follow his line of thought.

He saw the look on my face and so he offered a little hint.

"The two dogs would've had little to argue about," he said, "had the
egg not been hardboiled. A raw egg would've simply broken and
spilled, but the boiled egg held its shape, rolling all around even
after the shell had been cracked. So here's the application: Because
it remained a little while, it continued to give them something to
fight over."

"Yes, but what does a boiled egg have to do with the Bible?" I asked
the question, but I was already beginning to see where he must be
going with this.

"Because the Bible remains," he said, "and cannot be dispelled,
disproven, dismissed, or weakened by the bitter attacks of those who
hate the true God. No matter what unbelievers say or do, or what laws
they manage to have passed in this or that nation, the Bible remains
the same from generation to generation. Therefore, the controversy
over the Scriptures will continue until the end of time. Until Jesus
Christ Himself returns to settle things on earth."

remembering a story from Uncle Tom's cabin.

Two Dogs & the Egg

"The two dogs would've had little to argue about," he said, "had the
egg not been hardboiled. A raw egg would've simply broken and
spilled, but the boiled egg held its shape, rolling all around even
after the shell had been cracked. So here's the application: Because
it remained a little while, it continued to give them something to
fight over."

"Yes, but what does a boiled egg have to do with the Bible?" I asked
the question, but I was already beginning to see where he must be
going with this.

"Because the Bible remains," he said, "and cannot be dispelled,
disproven, dismissed, or weakened by the bitter attacks of those who
hate the true God. No matter what unbelievers say or do, or what laws
they manage to have passed in this or that nation, the Bible remains
the same from generation to generation. Therefore, the controversy
over the Scriptures will continue until the end of time. Until Jesus
Christ Himself returns to settle things on earth."

remembering a story from Uncle Tom's cabin.

Two Dogs & the Egg

"Never forget," my uncle was saying, "the lesson of the two dogs and
the egg."

We were sitting on the front porch in the afternoon sun, soaking in
the warmth of its rays. That warmth was very welcomed on that crisp
January day. So was the perfectly blue sky, and the bright sunlight
reflecting on white snow.

I puzzled over his remark. How could a story about two dogs and an
egg have any meaningful or spiritual application? My Uncle Tom has a
strange way of thinking and talking, at times. It isn't always easy
to follow his line of thought.

He saw the look on my face and so he offered a little hint.

"The two dogs would've had little to argue about," he said, "had the
egg not been hardboiled. A raw egg would've simply broken and
spilled, but the boiled egg held its shape, rolling all around even
after the shell had been cracked. So here's the application: Because
it remained a little while, it continued to give them something to
fight over."

"Yes, but what does a boiled egg have to do with the Bible?" I asked
the question, but I was already beginning to see where he must be
going with this.

"Because the Bible remains," he said, "and cannot be dispelled,
disproven, dismissed, or weakened by the bitter attacks of those who
hate the true God. No matter what unbelievers say or do, or what laws
they manage to have passed in this or that nation, the Bible remains
the same from generation to generation. Therefore, the controversy
over the Scriptures will continue until the end of time. Until Jesus
Christ Himself returns to settle things on earth."

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 18:31:20 -0700 in episode
<13f2c124.0404171731.3f061d8@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
crossroads1991@aol.com (grateful):

I cannot believe that our existence in this universe is a mere quirk of
fate, an accident of history, an incidental blip in a great cosmic
drama...

And *that is the actual source of your alleged "logic." You just don't
*wanna.