"Thomas P." <tonyofbexarremovethis@yahoo.dk> wrote in message
news:64a190thrtger3dv5sgfr96anttfsas67v@4ax.com...

On 28 Apr 2004 09:07:27 -0700,

"Scot McDermid" <scotmc@optNOonSPAMline.net> wrote in message

news:<spjjc.

God doesn't need or require you to believe.
God already knows that He created a group of animals called man and that
some would be too stupid to believe and actually have a religion of
non-belief.

God doesn't need or require you to believe.

God already knows that He created a group of animals called man and that
some would be too stupid to believe and actually have a religion of
non-belief.

God doesn't need or require you to believe.
God already knows that He created a group of animals called man and that
some would be too stupid to believe and actually have a religion of
non-belief.

If I believed in your horrible nightmare of a god, I would be
terrified; but it would be impossible for me to love it.

God being sovereignly autonomous has mercy and compassion
on whom He will, and He hardens who He will.

To some He shows mercy, and others are the recipients
of His justice. He's the potter, we are but the clay.

You can read Romans 9, if you are so inclined.

Once again, God does all for His glory, and for the
good of those He has chosen for His own.

"Scot McDermid" <scotmc@optNOonSPAMline.net> wrote in message news:<spjjc.> > > Did he not help her?

Yes, he was the means God used to help her.

Yes, even atheists are doing God's work whether they realize
it or not. Atheists are only fulfilling their role in God's plan, yet
*you* say God condemns atheists for it. Seems odd that
God would reward one set of people who are fulfilling the role
in God's plan but condemn other who are fulfilling their role
in God's plan. But of course this is all for a greater good
that cannot possibly be understood by mere mortals.

God being sovereignly autonomous has mercy and compassion

on whom He will, and He hardens who He will.

To some He shows mercy, and others are the recipients

of His justice. He's the potter, we are but the clay.

You can read Romans 9, if you are so inclined.

Once again, God does all for His glory, and for the
good of those He has chosen for His own.

"grateful" <crossroads1991@aol.com> wrote in message
news:13f2c124.0404261109.105a1422@posting.google.com...

Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote in message

...

Obiviously the payoff for the atheist was thinking he would
show her that it is man who provided for her, not God, and
he expected to get the glory for having done so in the bargain.
Actually he was doing the will of God, for one of His children,
and God thwarted the atheist's intention.

Did he not help her?

Yes, he was the means God used to help her.

Yes, even atheists are doing God's work whether they realize
it or not. Atheists are only fulfilling their role in God's plan, yet
*you* say God condemns atheists for it. Seems odd that
God would reward one set of people who are fulfilling the role
in God's plan but condemn other who are fulfilling their role
in God's plan. But of course this is all for a greater good
that cannot possibly be understood by mere mortals.

"grateful" <crossroads1991@aol.com> wrote in message
news:13f2c124.0404261109.105a1422@posting.google.com...

Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote in message

news:<l3jo80dl8tgp8d2amgn0cfvvn538drd23m@4ax.com>...

Did he not help her?

Yes, he was the means God used to help her.

Yes, even atheists are doing God's work whether they realize
it or not. Atheists are only fulfilling their role in God's plan, yet
*you* say God condemns atheists for it. Seems odd that
God would reward one set of people who are fulfilling the role
in God's plan but condemn other who are fulfilling their role
in God's plan. But of course this is all for a greater good
that cannot possibly be understood by mere mortals.

"grateful" <crossroads1991@aol.com> wrote in message
news:13f2c124.0404261109.105a1422@posting.google.com...

Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote in message

news:<l3jo80dl8tgp8d2amgn0cfvvn538drd23m@4ax.com>...

Obiviously the payoff for the atheist was thinking he would
show her that it is man who provided for her, not God, and
he expected to get the glory for having done so in the bargain.
Actually he was doing the will of God, for one of His children,
and God thwarted the atheist's intention.

Did he not help her?

Yes, he was the means God used to help her.

Yes, even atheists are doing God's work whether they realize
it or not. Atheists are only fulfilling their role in God's plan, yet
*you* say God condemns atheists for it. Seems odd that
God would reward one set of people who are fulfilling the role
in God's plan but condemn other who are fulfilling their role
in God's plan. But of course this is all for a greater good
that cannot possibly be understood by mere mortals.

Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote in message news:<l3jo80dl8tgp8d2amgn0cfvvn538drd23m@4ax.com>...

On 25 Apr 2004 11:01:17 -0700,

Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote in message news:<3m5n80tonjv8j2hohi1m0urqkn643cm5im@4ax.com>...

On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 20:43:14 -0500, Alan Wostenberg
<awostenberg@psalmweaver.com> in news message
<408B17B2.5080304@psalmweaver.com> wrote:

Thomas P. wrote:

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 12:02:21 -0500, Alan Wostenberg
<awostenberg@psalmweaver.com> wrote:

On the contrary, how could atheists, like all creation, not shout God's
glory?

How can you make an argument based on an assuming your conclusion?
You have assumed that there is a creation, you then assert that it
shouts something.

I accept it as axiomatic all creation shouts God's glory. So we can
study any creature -- an atheist for example -- and investigate how this
one shouts it. Reminds me of a joke{1}.

There's a little old Christian lady living next door to an atheist.
Every morning the lady comes out onto her front porch and shouts "Praise
the Lord!".

The atheist yells back, "There is no God".

She does this every morning with the same result. As time goes on, the
lady runs into financial difficulties and has trouble buying food. She
goes out onto the porch and asks God for help with groceries, then says
"Praise the Lord".

The next morning she goes out onto the porch and there's the groceries
she asked for, and of course, she shouts "Praise the Lord!!!".

The atheist jumps out from behind a bush and says, "Ha, I bought those
groceries - there is no God".

The lady looks at him and smiles, she shouts "Praise the Lord, not only
did you provide for me Lord, you made Satan pay for the groceries!!"

IOW, the atheist is altruistic, compassionate, and tolerant because he
helps even those who have different beliefs when they have need.
OTOH, the Christian is ungrateful and insulting even to the point of
*biting the hand that feeds her.

No, Liz, there was no altruism, compassion or tolerance involved
here because the man's motivation was evil. His intent was to
act like the devil and separate this woman from her legitimately
held belief in God.

Yet, he gave her the food when no one else did because she had the
need. He gave her food for which he paid with his own money.

She didn't ask any person to provide for her needs, she asked
God alone who is the source of all provision.

The atheist was
the second cause of the benefit as it pleased God for him to be.

There
were no strings attached to the food. That is altruism, compassion,
and tolerance. Possibly you do not recognize these traits because you
do not practice them.

Obiviously the payoff for the atheist was thinking he would
show her that it is man who provided for her, not God, and
he expected to get the glory for having done so in the bargain.

Actually he was doing the will of God, for one of His children,
and God thwarted the atheist's intention.

Did he not help her?

Yes, he was the means God used to help her.

Should she have refused the food after she
found out that the food was from an atheist and waited until she
starved or received food from a fellow Christian, whichever came
first?

No, she knew who is the ultimate source of her provision.
She trusted God to answer her prayer to shield her from
starvation, and He did. Where in the story do we find her
beseeching anyone other than God for help?

...for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the
outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart. I Sam. 16:7

So, if the LORD® sees the heart and man only sees the outward
appearance, why are you doing the judging?

Because you don't have to be God to know the atheist's
motive for buying her groceries.

Why is he hiding behind
a bush so when she discovers the groceries on her porch,
he can jump out and exclaim, "Ha, I bought those
groceries - there is no God". Note: the "Ha"

I've seen this type of behavior before. I wonder whom the little old
Christian lady will insult the next time she has no money to pay for
groceries. It is no wonder her children had abandoned her and the
compassionate conservative members of her church ignored her need so
that she must rely on the generosity of relative strangers.

It worked out beautifully; the wealth of the sinner was spent on
the just.

And the Christian kicks the atheist in the teeth for his trouble.

No, not for his trouble, but because of his obviously
evil motive.

I
don't think you will find justification for that type of behavior in
your scriptures, but I'll give you a chance to find an appropriate
verse and show me that I am wrong, and Christians are supposed to
insult others and be ungrateful to those who have given them charity.

It is a story afterall, and the atheist got what he deserved
as a consequence of his evil intent.

Normally the Christian
thanks both the first cause and the second cause for help.

On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 20:43:14 -0500, Alan Wostenberg

I accept it as axiomatic all creation shouts God's glory. So we can
study any creature -- an atheist for example -- and investigate how this
one shouts it. Reminds me of a joke{1}.

There's a little old Christian lady living next door to an atheist.
Every morning the lady comes out onto her front porch and shouts "Praise
the Lord!".

The atheist yells back, "There is no God".

She does this every morning with the same result. As time goes on, the
lady runs into financial difficulties and has trouble buying food. She
goes out onto the porch and asks God for help with groceries, then says
"Praise the Lord".

The next morning she goes out onto the porch and there's the groceries
she asked for, and of course, she shouts "Praise the Lord!!!".

The atheist jumps out from behind a bush and says, "Ha, I bought those
groceries - there is no God".

The lady looks at him and smiles, she shouts "Praise the Lord, not only
did you provide for me Lord, you made Satan pay for the groceries!!"

IOW, the atheist is altruistic, compassionate, and tolerant because he
helps even those who have different beliefs when they have need.
OTOH, the Christian is ungrateful and insulting even to the point of
*biting the hand that feeds her.

I've seen this type of behavior before. I wonder whom the little old
Christian lady will insult the next time she has no money to pay for
groceries. It is no wonder her children had abandoned her and the
compassionate conservative members of her church ignored her need so
that she must rely on the generosity of relative strangers.

Liz #658 BAAWA

They all agree on what their god wants. Each theist will tell you
that what the only true god wants, and what he, himself, wants, are
exactly the same. -- Al Klein

Thomas P. wrote:

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 12:02:21 -0500, Alan Wostenberg
<awostenberg@psalmweaver.com> wrote:

On the contrary, how could atheists, like all creation, not shout God's
glory?

How can you make an argument based on an assuming your conclusion?
You have assumed that there is a creation, you then assert that it
shouts something.

I accept it as axiomatic all creation shouts God's glory.

So we can
study any creature -- an atheist for example -- and investigate how this
one shouts it. Reminds me of a joke{1}.

There's a little old Christian lady living next door to an atheist.
Every morning the lady comes out onto her front porch and shouts "Praise
the Lord!".

The atheist yells back, "There is no God".

She does this every morning with the same result. As time goes on, the
lady runs into financial difficulties and has trouble buying food. She
goes out onto the porch and asks God for help with groceries, then says
"Praise the Lord".

The next morning she goes out onto the porch and there's the groceries
she asked for, and of course, she shouts "Praise the Lord!!!".

The atheist jumps out from behind a bush and says, "Ha, I bought those
groceries - there is no God".

The lady looks at him and smiles, she shouts "Praise the Lord, not only
did you provide for me Lord, you made Satan pay for the groceries!!"

Thomas P. wrote:

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 12:02:21 -0500, Alan Wostenberg
<awostenberg@psalmweaver.com> wrote:

On the contrary, how could atheists, like all creation, not shout God's
glory?

How can you make an argument based on an assuming your conclusion?
You have assumed that there is a creation, you then assert that it
shouts something.

I accept it as axiomatic all creation shouts God's glory. So we can
study any creature -- an atheist for example -- and investigate how this
one shouts it. Reminds me of a joke{1}.

There's a little old Christian lady living next door to an atheist.
Every morning the lady comes out onto her front porch and shouts "Praise
the Lord!".

The atheist yells back, "There is no God".

She does this every morning with the same result. As time goes on, the
lady runs into financial difficulties and has trouble buying food. She
goes out onto the porch and asks God for help with groceries, then says
"Praise the Lord".

The next morning she goes out onto the porch and there's the groceries
she asked for, and of course, she shouts "Praise the Lord!!!".

The atheist jumps out from behind a bush and says, "Ha, I bought those
groceries - there is no God".

The lady looks at him and smiles, she shouts "Praise the Lord, not only
did you provide for me Lord, you made Satan pay for the groceries!!"