| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"IKnowHimDoYou" |
| Date: |
09 Apr 2004 10:50:55 AM |
| Object: |
To Believe Or Not to Believe |
To Believe Or Not to Believe
Each person struggles with finding truth. Each person brings their own
bias and prejudices to this struggle as they search for what is true
versus what is false. The search is not IF we have faith(trust) in
somthing or someone for we ALL have faith in something or someone For
example:
The Christian believes in the Bible and what it says concerning his
relaionship with God through the Lord Jesus Christ. He knows that there is
no scientific proof of God's existance, only legal, historical and
biographical evidence exists.
The atheist believes there is no God but he too has no scientific proof to
confirm or disprove that. He simply takes it on faith believing it to be
so without any proof or evidence.
The rules of logic tell us that two opposite claims cannot both be true;
if one is truth than the other must be false. If there is no God as the
atheists believes but cannot prove then he is operating on faith or trust
in this hypothsis. If God is then his faith is in vain(empty) and he has
nowhere to place his faith so he is in error. His behaviour is determined
by what he thinks is right although he never really knows what the rigtht
is so he is left to his own devices.
The Christian believes what God says and that He exists and desires to
have a relationship with man sending His only begotten Son to earth to
secure the path of that relationship. The Christian uses, along with the
Bible, historical and biographical evidence for God's presence along with
the seen and experiential effects on men in this world such as changed
lives, self sacrifice for others, a love of all men, a quickening of
conscience, a radical difference in thinking and behaving among other
changes.
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| User: "Thomas P." |
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| Title: Re: To Believe Or Not to Believe |
25 Apr 2004 03:11:30 PM |
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On 25 Apr 2004 12:04:55 -0700, (grateful)
wrote:
Thomas P. <tonyofbexarremovethis@yahoo.dk> wrote in message news:<qiqm80tti25c3jca478kak1trhv0juiqfu@4ax.com>...
On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 20:43:14 -0500, Alan Wostenberg
<awostenberg@psalmweaver.com> wrote:
Thomas P. wrote:
On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 12:02:21 -0500, Alan Wostenberg
<awostenberg@psalmweaver.com> wrote:
On the contrary, how could atheists, like all creation, not shout God's
glory?
How can you make an argument based on an assuming your conclusion?
You have assumed that there is a creation, you then assert that it
shouts something.
I accept it as axiomatic all creation shouts God's glory. So we can
study any creature -- an atheist for example -- and investigate how this
one shouts it. Reminds me of a joke{1}.
I see. You assume it is true and then use that assumption as evidence
for it being true. Very neat.
There's a little old Christian lady living next door to an atheist.
Every morning the lady comes out onto her front porch and shouts "Praise
the Lord!".
The atheist yells back, "There is no God".
She does this every morning with the same result. As time goes on, the
lady runs into financial difficulties and has trouble buying food. She
goes out onto the porch and asks God for help with groceries, then says
"Praise the Lord".
The next morning she goes out onto the porch and there's the groceries
she asked for, and of course, she shouts "Praise the Lord!!!".
The atheist jumps out from behind a bush and says, "Ha, I bought those
groceries - there is no God".
The lady looks at him and smiles, she shouts "Praise the Lord, not only
did you provide for me Lord, you made Satan pay for the groceries!!"
The point being that the atheist helped the old lady and the old lady
was too stupid to be grateful.
The atheist was the second cause, the instrument used by God to help
the old lady. The atheist wanted to separate her from her legitmately
held belief in God. If he were looking out for her best interests, he
would not have hidden in the bushes to spy on her reaction. He would
have humbly given without seeking credit for what he had done. IOW,
his motivation was evil, and God, who looks on the heart, and not on
the outward appearance knew it, as did the old lady. All the glory
goes to God.
Nonsense. I have never once seen god help somebody. A man paid for
and delivered her groceries.
She even had to throw in an insult.
In the meantime millions of people are starving every day. When will
god deliver the groceries?
God was the first cause Provider, the unbeliever was His instrument.
The old lady knew who to thank for the benefit. Millions of people
are deliberately sinning against God everyday, but He still causes
the rain to fall and the sun to shine upon them just as He does
His own.
And millions of people starve every day. No doubt many of them have
begged god for food, if not for them then for their children, for
their infants. The people are still starving. When they are fed, the
food is paid for and delivered by people.
Thomas P.
None of the Emperor's clothes had been so successful before.
"But he has got nothing on," said a little child.
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| User: "Paul Duca" |
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| Title: Re: To Believe Or Not to Believe |
01 May 2004 03:13:03 PM |
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"Thomas P." wrote:
On 25 Apr 2004 12:04:55 -0700, (grateful)
wrote:
Thomas P. <tonyofbexarremovethis@yahoo.dk> wrote in message news:<qiqm80tti25c3jca478kak1trhv0juiqfu@4ax.com>...
On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 20:43:14 -0500, Alan Wostenberg
<awostenberg@psalmweaver.com> wrote:
Thomas P. wrote:
On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 12:02:21 -0500, Alan Wostenberg
<awostenberg@psalmweaver.com> wrote:
On the contrary, how could atheists, like all creation, not shout God's
glory?
How can you make an argument based on an assuming your conclusion?
You have assumed that there is a creation, you then assert that it
shouts something.
I accept it as axiomatic all creation shouts God's glory.
While God shouts "F.U." back...
So we can
study any creature -- an atheist for example -- and investigate how this
one shouts it. Reminds me of a joke{1}.
I see. You assume it is true and then use that assumption as evidence
for it being true. Very neat.
There's a little old Christian lady living next door to an atheist.
Every morning the lady comes out onto her front porch and shouts "Praise
the Lord!".
The atheist yells back, "There is no God".
She does this every morning with the same result. As time goes on, the
lady runs into financial difficulties and has trouble buying food. She
goes out onto the porch and asks God for help with groceries, then says
"Praise the Lord".
The next morning she goes out onto the porch and there's the groceries
she asked for, and of course, she shouts "Praise the Lord!!!".
The atheist jumps out from behind a bush and says, "Ha, I bought those
groceries - there is no God".
The lady looks at him and smiles, she shouts "Praise the Lord, not only
did you provide for me Lord, you made Satan pay for the groceries!!"
The point being that the atheist helped the old lady and the old lady
was too stupid to be grateful.
The atheist was the second cause, the instrument used by God to help
the old lady. The atheist wanted to separate her from her legitmately
held belief in God. If he were looking out for her best interests, he
would not have hidden in the bushes to spy on her reaction. He would
have humbly given without seeking credit for what he had done. IOW,
his motivation was evil, and God, who looks on the heart, and not on
the outward appearance knew it, as did the old lady. All the glory
goes to God.
Nonsense. I have never once seen god help somebody. A man paid for
and delivered her groceries.
She even had to throw in an insult.
In the meantime millions of people are starving every day. When will
god deliver the groceries?
God was the first cause Provider, the unbeliever was His instrument.
The old lady knew who to thank for the benefit. Millions of people
are deliberately sinning against God everyday, but He still causes
the rain to fall and the sun to shine upon them just as He does
His own.
I wouldn't have bothered....I'd just enjoy all her suffering--the type her sainted God not only
failed to alleviate, He presumably caused it in the first place.
And millions of people starve every day. No doubt many of them have
begged god for food, if not for them then for their children, for
their infants. The people are still starving. When they are fed, the
food is paid for and delivered by people.
Nothing more needs to be said...
Paul
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| User: "walksalone" |
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| Title: Re: To Believe Or Not to Believe |
14 Apr 2004 06:54:22 AM |
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On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:28:49 -0500, Alan Wostenberg pretended to know what
it was talking about, & in a great flurry of patting its own back, left the
following cross post in its wake.
follow up set to ARCB
grateful wrote:
True, they scream for evidence even though the very heavens
declare God's glory as does all of creation.
It is curious they scream for evidence of God, but not, say, aliens.
There is a major difference in having a standard of evidence, & discarding
claims that fail this standard. Your example, aliens falls in that
category.
Aliens may exist, no one is running around claiming these aliens demand we
suck up to them & if we don't, we will suffer eternal punishment.
Aliens are a likelihood given the diversity of life found throughout the
climatic & atmospheric changes found in the history of the earth.
Gods may exist, but until they show they do, why the skull sweat, unless
they are one of the revealed [as in so weak they had to go find someone to
bribe to follow them], failure to follow them according to those that suck
up to them is a eternal life of torment.
Even the Egyptian myth was better, there the evil doers simply lost their
chance at resurrection.
What would we make of somebody who spent time in newsgroups proclaiming
there is no evidence of aliens? All creation -- even atheists --
I would think someone was trying to convince them otherwise, like the
bleaters that invades alt.atheism & other atheist groups. Say, someone like
you.
declare God's glory. Their hunger for evidence is itself evidence God
is. May they never rest until they rest in Him who Is.
You mistake the attitude of atheists, by assuming they have your ethical &
internal shortcomings. You assume that they will be convinced by your
posturing's & cliches, when many of them, especially in the US, have been
serious xians, theists.
Your assumptions show your ignorance of what & why atheists are as they
are, without a belief in any gods., Just as you are atheistic to the Hindu
pantheon, for the same reasons, atheists add your pantheon to the list &
get on with their lives.
walksalone who is never surprised at the phony's that show up claiming to
know what an atheist thinks, when in fact, they demonstrate they have
missed the obvious again.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: To Believe Or Not to Believe |
11 Apr 2004 03:38:48 PM |
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On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 08:42:37 -0700 in episode
<IKnowHim-1104040842370001@pm3-42.kalama.com> we saw our hero
IKnowHim@leavingsoon.com (IKnowHimDoYou):
In article <13f2c124.0404101856.6c90dd3e@posting.google.com>,
crossroads1991@aol.com (grateful) wrote:
address@withheld.com (Vic Sagerquist) wrote in message
news:<94C754BDDvicman@216.196.97.132>...
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach grateful:
knuckle-dragging ancient fear-embedded ignorance-inspired smelly
horseshit.
I don't give a rat's ***** what some knee-bender with the mind of a
child wants to believe.
Then shut up about it.
Just keep it the hell out of my face. Don't respond.
Moron.
Your nick?
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
_______________________________________________________
This is the typical atheist retort..
full of wonderful rhetoric and inventive vocabulary, what?
Okay, so in christlike behavior, you also have come to the alt.atheism ng
to deliberately *provoke people into hostile responses so that you can
sneer at them and feel superior.
As the babble says, "go unto all the world and pee in their faces."
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism,
because it is a merger of State and corporate power."
- Mussolini
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: To Believe Or Not to Believe |
11 Apr 2004 11:12:11 AM |
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One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach IKnowHimDoYou:
This is the typical atheist retort..
I sense you don't like it. I suggest you stay out of alt.atheism.
full of wonderful rhetoric and inventive vocabulary, what?
Sure beats bleater nonsense. Move on, troll.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
______________
Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day.
Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish.
--Timothy Jones
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: To Believe Or Not to Believe |
11 Apr 2004 03:39:08 PM |
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On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 11:12:11 -0500 in episode <94C852B6Dvicman@127.0.0.1>
we saw our hero (Vic Sagerquist):
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach IKnowHimDoYou:
This is the typical atheist retort..
I sense you don't like it. I suggest you stay out of alt.atheism.
He can't. He has to ***** on somebody so he can feel superior...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism,
because it is a merger of State and corporate power."
- Mussolini
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: To Believe Or Not to Believe |
11 Apr 2004 09:22:37 AM |
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One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach grateful:
knuckle-dragging ancient fear-embedded ignorance-inspired smelly
horseshit. I don't give a rat's ***** what some knee-bender with the
mind of a child wants to believe.
Then shut up about it.
Your nonsensical religion is in my face everywhere I go. I'll make it a
point to fight fire with fire.
Don't respond.
You wish.
Moron.
Your nick?
If you had half a brain you'd notice I use my real name. Unlike some
grateful chickenshit posters...
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
______________
Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day.
Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish.
--Timothy Jones
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