| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Brian Westley" |
| Date: |
17 Aug 2005 06:23:26 PM |
| Object: |
Toasting etiquette apparenty means ignoring atheists |
A column by Rabii Marc Gellman:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8989235/site/newsweek/
....
Like a eulogy, a wedding toast must be egoless, true and brief. Like
eulogies, the point of the toast is to wish the bride and groom well and
ask God to bless their marriage, not tell everyone everything about
yourself and more about the bride and groom than they would want known.
....
For nonreligious toasters, I beg you to try to stifle your atheism for a
minute and include in your toast at least the formulaic phrase, "God
bless you both!" at the end of your toast.
....
Wow, I guess this jerk never even considered that the bride and
groom might be atheists.
---
Merlyn LeRoy
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: Toasting etiquette apparenty means ignoring atheists |
17 Aug 2005 06:43:42 PM |
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"Brian Westley" <westley@visi.com> wrote in message
news:11g7hnes99aql7f@corp.supernews.com...
A column by Rabii Marc Gellman:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8989235/site/newsweek/
...
Like a eulogy, a wedding toast must be egoless, true and brief. Like
eulogies, the point of the toast is to wish the bride and groom well and
ask God to bless their marriage, not tell everyone everything about
yourself and more about the bride and groom than they would want known.
...
For nonreligious toasters, I beg you to try to stifle your atheism for a
minute and include in your toast at least the formulaic phrase, "God
bless you both!" at the end of your toast.
...
Wow, I guess this jerk never even considered that the bride and
groom might be atheists.
They never do. They just change gears on their steamroller.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
http://www.ashenempires.com
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| User: "James Ascher" |
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| Title: Re: Toasting etiquette apparenty means ignoring atheists |
17 Aug 2005 06:50:41 PM |
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Brian Westley wrote:
A column by Rabii Marc Gellman:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8989235/site/newsweek/
...
Like a eulogy, a wedding toast must be egoless, true and brief. Like
eulogies, the point of the toast is to wish the bride and groom well and
ask God to bless their marriage, not tell everyone everything about
yourself and more about the bride and groom than they would want known.
...
For nonreligious toasters, I beg you to try to stifle your atheism for a
minute and include in your toast at least the formulaic phrase, "God
bless you both!" at the end of your toast.
...
Wow, I guess this jerk never even considered that the bride and
groom might be atheists.
What else would you expect from a rabbi or any other cleric?
James
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| User: "Uncle Buck" |
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| Title: Re: Toasting etiquette apparenty means ignoring atheists |
18 Aug 2005 12:52:21 AM |
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On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 23:50:41 GMT, James Ascher <jwa1968@earthlink.net>
wrote:
Brian Westley wrote:
A column by Rabii Marc Gellman:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8989235/site/newsweek/
...
Like a eulogy, a wedding toast must be egoless, true and brief. Like
eulogies, the point of the toast is to wish the bride and groom well and
ask God to bless their marriage, not tell everyone everything about
yourself and more about the bride and groom than they would want known.
...
For nonreligious toasters, I beg you to try to stifle your atheism for a
minute and include in your toast at least the formulaic phrase, "God
bless you both!" at the end of your toast.
...
Wow, I guess this jerk never even considered that the bride and
groom might be atheists.
What else would you expect from a rabbi or any other cleric?
You're right, I guess "reality" is too much to expect from a "man of
the cloth".
--
L8r,
Uncle Buck
_o-O=~_o-O=~_o-O=~_o-O=~_o-O=~_o-O=~_o-O=
http://surrenderingtothefall.blogspot.com
~=O-o_~=O-o_~=O-o_~=O-o_~=O-o_~=O-o_~=O-o
"I absolutely detest it when people quote
themselves." - Me
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Toasting etiquette apparenty means ignoring atheists |
21 Aug 2005 09:50:30 AM |
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On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 22:52:21 -0700, Uncle Buck
<UncleBuck@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 23:50:41 GMT, James Ascher <jwa1968@earthlink.net>
wrote:
Brian Westley wrote:
A column by Rabii Marc Gellman:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8989235/site/newsweek/
...
Like a eulogy, a wedding toast must be egoless, true and brief. Like
eulogies, the point of the toast is to wish the bride and groom well and
ask God to bless their marriage, not tell everyone everything about
yourself and more about the bride and groom than they would want known.
...
For nonreligious toasters, I beg you to try to stifle your atheism for a
minute and include in your toast at least the formulaic phrase, "God
bless you both!" at the end of your toast.
...
Wow, I guess this jerk never even considered that the bride and
groom might be atheists.
What else would you expect from a rabbi or any other cleric?
You're right, I guess "reality" is too much to expect from a "man of
the cloth".
Ethics is too much to expect.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Toasting etiquette apparenty means ignoring atheists |
21 Aug 2005 01:05:14 AM |
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On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 23:23:26 -0000, Brian Westley <westley@visi.com>
wrote:
A column by Rabii Marc Gellman:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8989235/site/newsweek/
...
Like a eulogy, a wedding toast must be egoless, true and brief. Like
eulogies, the point of the toast is to wish the bride and groom well and
ask God to bless their marriage, not tell everyone everything about
yourself and more about the bride and groom than they would want known.
...
For nonreligious toasters, I beg you to try to stifle your atheism for a
minute and include in your toast at least the formulaic phrase, "God
bless you both!" at the end of your toast.
...
Wow, I guess this jerk never even considered that the bride and
groom might be atheists.
Ethics isn't his strong suit, either. Casual false witness abounds,
too.
/article
Another problem is sibling rivalries. Get it through your head that
your lifelong envious bickering with your brother or sister is
embarrassing, irrelevant, unattractive and almost always destructive
in a wedding toast. Talk about the great things your sibling has
taught you and how much you love him or her. Even if it's a lie, who
cares? Most people will not discover it until after the party and the
people who do know that you hate your sib will think you finally made
up--which you should do anyway. For a father of the bride who is
offering a toast (I don't know why more mothers don't give toasts, but
they don't and it's a shame), the obvious is the obvious. You should
welcome everyone and tell them how much it means to you and your wife
or ex-wife or both your ex-wives that they have all joined you for
this joyous occasion. Welcome your son-in-law and his family into your
family and tell his family how much you love their son and how happy
you are that he will be spending every single holiday and vacation
with your family and how he has willingly agreed never to see or speak
to them again. Whatever you say during your toast, for God's sake
don't end it with "Now let's party!" or "Boo-yah!"
For nonreligious toasters, I beg you to try to stifle your atheism for
a minute and include in your toast at least the formulaic phrase, "God
bless you both!" at the end of your toast. If you are religious, you
might include the old Jewish legend that, just to keep busy, God
spends every day after creating the world matching up brides and
grooms. Then say, "Today we are here to celebrate some of God's best
work." If it is a Christian wedding, say that it is an old Christian
legend. If anyone presses you for a source, just offer him or her
another martini.
I like toasts that include the phrase, "I pray that you will be
blessed to see the children of your children's children." However, you
should first check out any fertility issues. I once I said that to a
bride and groom during a wedding ceremony and discovered later from
the weeping bride that she was infertile. I was then quickly ushered
out of the party by her large and angry brother, so the fertility
prayer is something of a risk.
A final word about eloquence, the guests who hear your toast are not
expecting Shakespeare because some of them even know, or heard on MTV,
that Shakespeare is dead. However, I implore you to try to lift the
rhetoric a few clicks above "You guys are totally awesome!" You can do
it. I believe with all my heart in the power of natural eloquence. A
good way to do this is to talk about what you learned from the bride
and groom and from their love for each other. Speak about how their
love has lifted up and inspired not just the two of them but you and
all their friends and family, as well. Speaking about our family and
friends not just as family and friends but also as our life teachers
is a good way to elevate and honor the true place of family,
friendship and love in our lives. You might also want to speak about
the shared passions of the bride and groom. However, if their
principal passions are shopping and drinking beer, forget this and go
right to the old Jewish legend. Just speak from your heart about what
you love about them, and then sit down.
I once said to the bride who was marrying a kid I had known since he
was 2, "Melissa, I always knew David would marry you. I just didn't
know your name or your face until that day when he introduced you to
me. But I knew it would be you; I knew it would be someone who would
love his energy and his passion, his loyalty and his kindness. You
were not only made for each other, you were made only for each other.
And so my deepest hope and prayer for the two of you is that, in the
words of D. H. Lawrence, 'May you have the courage of your
tenderness'."
Something like that might work.
Anyway, Mazel Tov to all the brides and grooms and toasters out there,
and now ... Let's party! Boo-yah!
© 2005 Newsweek, Inc.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: Toasting etiquette apparenty means ignoring atheists |
17 Aug 2005 06:47:55 PM |
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On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 23:23:26 -0000, Brian Westley <westley@visi.com> wrote:
A column by Rabii Marc Gellman:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8989235/site/newsweek/
...
Like a eulogy, a wedding toast must be egoless, true and brief. Like
eulogies, the point of the toast is to wish the bride and groom well and
ask God to bless their marriage, not tell everyone everything about
yourself and more about the bride and groom than they would want known.
...
For nonreligious toasters, I beg you to try to stifle your atheism for a
minute and include in your toast at least the formulaic phrase, "God
bless you both!" at the end of your toast.
...
Wow, I guess this jerk never even considered that the bride and
groom might be atheists.
I've found that most Christians are quite surprised to discover that not
everyone is.
---
Merlyn LeRoy
.
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| User: "Tom" |
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| Title: Re: Toasting etiquette apparenty means ignoring atheists |
19 Aug 2005 08:29:59 AM |
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For nonreligious toasters, I beg you to try to stifle your atheism for a
minute and include in your toast at least the formulaic phrase, "God
bless you both!" at the end of your toast.
...
Wow, I guess this jerk never even considered that the bride and
groom might be atheists.
I've found that most Christians are quite surprised to discover that not
everyone is.
I wonder whether Christians would even notice if you hadn't said it,
although I'm pretty damn sure atheists notice when you do. Why not just play
safe and keep the religious stuff out of it and then you won't offend
anyone. It the happy couple had had a church wedding then they've spent the
day being blessed left right and centre anyway.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Toasting etiquette apparenty means ignoring atheists |
21 Aug 2005 09:43:46 AM |
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On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 14:29:59 +0100, "Tom"
<tlucasremoveall@thisextragubbinstoreplyautoflame.co.uk> wrote:
For nonreligious toasters, I beg you to try to stifle your atheism for a
minute and include in your toast at least the formulaic phrase, "God
bless you both!" at the end of your toast.
...
Wow, I guess this jerk never even considered that the bride and
groom might be atheists.
I've found that most Christians are quite surprised to discover that not
everyone is.
I wonder whether Christians would even notice if you hadn't said it,
although I'm pretty damn sure atheists notice when you do. Why not just play
safe and keep the religious stuff out of it and then you won't offend
anyone. It the happy couple had had a church wedding then they've spent the
day being blessed left right and centre anyway.
That's well beyond the superstitious article writer's comprehension.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: Toasting etiquette apparenty means ignoring atheists |
17 Aug 2005 11:18:31 PM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Brian Westley
(westley@visi.com) made the light shine upon us with this:
A column by Rabii Marc Gellman:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8989235/site/newsweek/
...
Like a eulogy, a wedding toast must be egoless, true and brief. Like
eulogies, the point of the toast is to wish the bride and groom well
and ask God to bless their marriage, not tell everyone everything
about yourself and more about the bride and groom than they would want
known. ...
For nonreligious toasters, I beg you to try to stifle your atheism for
a minute and include in your toast at least the formulaic phrase, "God
bless you both!" at the end of your toast.
...
Wow, I guess this jerk never even considered that the bride and
groom might be atheists.
---
Merlyn LeRoy
I'd probablty add "May the god of your choice bless the bride and groom.
I'm not very popular in family circles...
--
Uncle Vic
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
http://home.comcast.net/~vickman/
Plonked by Raytard
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| User: "Sasha" |
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| Title: Re: Toasting etiquette apparenty means ignoring atheists |
18 Aug 2005 09:14:39 AM |
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As far as I'm concerned, the blessing of God is like the kiss of death.
I wonder how many people who died on September 11th were "blessed" at
their weddings?
What ever happened to just saying "good luck, be happy"?
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Toasting etiquette apparenty means ignoring atheists |
21 Aug 2005 09:51:12 AM |
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On 18 Aug 2005 07:14:39 -0700, "Sasha" <scironi@gmail.com> wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, the blessing of God is like the kiss of death.
I wonder how many people who died on September 11th were "blessed" at
their weddings?
What ever happened to just saying "good luck, be happy"?
That would be all-inclusive and therefore can't be used, according to
the clerics.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
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