| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"jabriol" |
| Date: |
14 Jun 2004 11:16:03 AM |
| Object: |
TOBS: Flood Legends |
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Such a cataclysm as the Deluge, which washed the whole world of that time out of existence, would never be forgotten by the survivors. They would talk about it to their children and their children’s children. For 500 years after the Deluge, Shem lived on to relate the event to many generations. He died only ten years before the birth of Jacob. Moses preserved the true account in Genesis. Sometime after the Flood, when God-defying people built the Tower of Babel, Jehovah confused their language and scattered them “over all the surface of the earth.” (Ge 11:9) It was only natural that these people took with them stories of the Flood and passed them on from father to son. The fact that there are not merely a few but perhaps hundreds of different stories about that great Deluge, and that such stories are found among the traditions of many primitive races the world over, is a strong proof that all these people had a common origin and that their early forefathers shared that Flood
experience in common.—
These folklore accounts of the Deluge agree with some major features of the Biblical account: (1) a place of refuge for a few survivors, (2) an otherwise global destruction of life by water, and (3) a seed of mankind preserved. The Egyptians, the Greeks, the Chinese, the Druids of Britain, the Polynesians, the Eskimos and Greenlanders, the Africans, the Hindus, and the American Indians—all of these have their Flood stories. The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (Vol. 2, p. 319) states: “Flood stories have been discovered among nearly all nations and tribes. Though most common on the Asian mainland and the islands immediately south of it and on the North American continent, they have been found on all the continents. Totals of the number of stories known run as high as about 270 . . . The universality of the flood accounts is usually taken as evidence for the universal destruction of humanity by a flood and the spread of the human race from one locale and even from one family.
Though the traditions may not all refer to the same flood, apparently the vast majority do. The assertion that many of these flood stories came from contacts with missionaries will not stand up because most of them were gathered by anthropologists not interested in vindicating the Bible, and they are filled with fanciful and pagan elements evidently the result of transmission for extended periods of time in a pagan society. Moreover, some of the ancient accounts were written by people very much in opposition to the Hebrew-Christian tradition.”—Edited by G. Bromiley, 1982.
In times past, certain primitive people (in Australia, Egypt, Fiji, Society Islands, Peru, Mexico, and other places) preserved a possible remnant of these traditions about the Flood by observing in November a ‘Feast of Ancestors’ or a ‘Festival of the Dead.’ Such customs reflected a memory of the destruction caused by the Deluge. According to the book Life and Work at the Great Pyramid, the festival in Mexico was held on the 17th of November because they “had a tradition that at that time the world had been previously destroyed; and they dreaded lest a similar catastrophe would, at the end of a cycle, annihilate the human race.” (By Professor C. Piazzi Smyth, Edinburgh, 1867, Vol. II, pp. 390, 391) Notes the book The Worship of the Dead: “This festival [of the dead] is . . . held by all on or about the very day on which, according to the Mosaic account, the Deluge took place, viz., the seventeenth day of the second month—the month nearly corresponding with our November.” (By J.
Garnier, London, 1904, p. 4) Interestingly, the Bible reports that the Flood began “in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month.” (Ge 7:11) That “second month” corresponds to the latter part of October and the first part of November on our calendar.
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<DIV><BR> Such a cataclysm as the Deluge, which washed the whole world of that time out of existence, would never be forgotten by the survivors. They would talk about it to their children and their children’s children. For 500 years after the Deluge, Shem lived on to relate the event to many generations. He died only ten years before the birth of Jacob. Moses preserved the true account in Genesis. Sometime after the Flood, when God-defying people built the Tower of Babel, Jehovah confused their language and scattered them “over all the surface of the earth.” (Ge 11:9) It was only natural that these people took with them stories of the Flood and passed them on from father to son. The fact that there are not merely a few but perhaps hundreds of different stories about that great Deluge, and that such stories are found among the traditions of many primitive races the world over, is a strong proof that all these people had a common origin and that
their early forefathers shared that Flood experience in common.—</DIV>
<DIV>These folklore accounts of the Deluge agree with some major features of the Biblical account: (1) a place of refuge for a few survivors, (2) an otherwise global destruction of life by water, and (3) a seed of mankind preserved. The Egyptians, the Greeks, the Chinese, the Druids of Britain, the Polynesians, the Eskimos and Greenlanders, the Africans, the Hindus, and the American Indians—all of these have their Flood stories. The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (Vol. 2, p. 319) states: “Flood stories have been discovered among nearly all nations and tribes. Though most common on the Asian mainland and the islands immediately south of it and on the North American continent, they have been found on all the continents. Totals of the number of stories known run as high as about 270 . . . The universality of the flood accounts is usually taken as evidence for the universal destruction of humanity by a flood and the spread of the human race from one locale and even
from one family. Though the traditions may not all refer to the same flood, apparently the vast majority do. The assertion that many of these flood stories came from contacts with missionaries will not stand up because most of them were gathered by anthropologists not interested in vindicating the Bible, and they are filled with fanciful and pagan elements evidently the result of transmission for extended periods of time in a pagan society. Moreover, some of the ancient accounts were written by people very much in opposition to the Hebrew-Christian tradition.”—Edited by G. Bromiley, 1982.</DIV>
<DIV>In times past, certain primitive people (in Australia, Egypt, Fiji, Society Islands, Peru, Mexico, and other places) preserved a possible remnant of these traditions about the Flood by observing in November a ‘Feast of Ancestors’ or a ‘Festival of the Dead.’ Such customs reflected a memory of the destruction caused by the Deluge. According to the book Life and Work at the Great Pyramid, the festival in Mexico was held on the 17th of November because they “had a tradition that at that time the world had been previously destroyed; and they dreaded lest a similar catastrophe would, at the end of a cycle, annihilate the human race.” (By Professor C. Piazzi Smyth, Edinburgh, 1867, Vol. II, pp. 390, 391) Notes the book The Worship of the Dead: “This festival [of the dead] is . . . held by all on or about the very day on which, according to the Mosaic account, the Deluge took place, viz., the seventeenth day of the second month—the month nearly corresponding with our
November.” (By J. Garnier, London, 1904, p. 4) Interestingly, the Bible reports that the Flood began “in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month.” (Ge 7:11) That “second month” corresponds to the latter part of October and the first part of November on our calendar.</DIV><p>
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| User: "Timothy Casey" |
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| Title: Re: Flood Legends |
15 Jun 2004 03:57:09 PM |
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Points to be reckoned with:
1. Nearly all civilisations have a good share of people who insist on living
on floodplains. Thus it is to be expected that all civilisations will have a
flood story just as all fishermen have a "one that got away story".
2. Genesis is a mixture of old folklore and word of mouth accounts including
material that was probably derived from sources as diverse as the writings
of Hermes (See Libellvs I:11B-12) to Sumerian texts (Eg. Gilgamesh Epic)
3. Genesis' dialect of origin is too old to properly translate. The most
spectacular blunder in the translation of Genesis is the assumption that
"Adam" refered to a man when, OOPS, it turns out in Genesis 5:2 that Adam is
refered to as "them" having male and female individuals as members therefore
being a reference to a community or possibly to humanity.
4. There are many floodplain deposits in the geological record (Eg.
Kevington Creek Beds/South Blue Range Sequence recording many floods circa
late Devonian near Mansfield, Victoria, Australia), but there is no single
global floodplain horizon in the geological record.
Of course, if I am wrong, just name the global floodplain horizon for me and
correlate it with the established geological time scale...
--
Timothy Casey GPEMC! >> 11950 is the 2email
Terms & conditions apply. See www.fieldcraft.biz/GPEMC
Discover the most advanced speed comprehension application at:
www.fieldcraft.biz/shop <BRef http://www.fieldcraft.biz/ki.htm >
"jabriol" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message
news:20040614161603.56219.qmail@web10803.mail.yahoo.com...
[SNIP]
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| User: "Budikka" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS: Flood Legends |
14 Jun 2004 11:00:38 PM |
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jabriol <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message news:<20040614161603.56219.qmail@web10803.mail.yahoo.com>
{Latest lies and ***** snipped]
1. A car is organic (molecular structure based in carbon).
True or false?
2. Not counting living things, the universe is, in part, organic.
True or false?
3. This universe is the only example of a universe that we know of for
sure. True/false?
4. We know for a fact that humans create cars, as can been seen from a
tour of any auto manufacturing plant.
True or false?
5. We have no known-for-a-fact examples of gods creating universes.
True or false?
6. If we know humans create cars, but we do not know that gods create
universes, trying to pretend that finding a car abandoned in the
desert leaves one in the same position, vis-a-vis its origins, as we
are in trying to understand the universe is an irredeemably braindead
proposition.
True or false?
7. In a thread started in alt.religion.jehovahs-witn on Sept 21,2003
you stated: "On the other hand, if the Genesis creation account is
factual, then the fossil record would not show one type of life
turning into another. It would reflect the Genesis statement that
each different type of living thing would reproduce only "according to
its kind." (Genesis 1:11, 12, 21, 24, 25) Also, if living things came
into being by an act of creation, there would be no partial,
unfinished bones or organs in the fossil record. All fossils would be
complete and highly complex, as living things are today."
(http://tinyurl.com/u62b)
That thread was titled "TOBS: The Fossil record support's Genesis".
Posting such an article and/or believing we were created rather than
evolved is an open admission that you are in fact, a creationist.
True or false?
8. Regardless of what it is classed as and regardless of whether it
was or was not in the evolutionary line to birds, the archaeopteryx
had pretty much a fifty-fifty mix of reptile/dino and bird features
and therefore represents an example of a potential intermediate stage.
True or false?
9. The okapi, an animal alive and well today, is pretty much what a
transitional giraffe could have looked like.
True or false?
10. http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html summarises
discoveries pertaining to transitional fossils and contains over 70
references, many of which are to papers published in peer-reviewed
science journals.
True or false?
11. Something akin to a mouse could reasonably change 300 genes over
60 million years to become either human or a modern mouse.
True or false?
12. It is possible to clearly and scientifically define the Biblical
"kind" as used in the Noah's ark story in Genesis.
True or false?
13. There is a mechanism in genetics or biochemistry which prevents
one "kind" of organism varying into another "kind".
True or false?
14. Evolutionists hold that modern amphibians evolved from modern
fish.
True or false?
15. Evolutionists hold that modern reptiles evolved from modern
amphibians.
True or false?
16. Evolutionists hold that modern birds evolved from modern
reptiles.
True or false?
17. Evolutionists hold that modern mammals evolved from modern
reptiles.
True or false?
18. Creationist letters published as a joke in a science publication
are of the same standing as peer-reviewed papers published in
recognized science journals.
True or false?
19. There has been at least one peer-reviewed science paper published
in a recognized, refereed science journal that calls the Theory of
Evolution into serious question.
True or false?
20. There has been at least one peer-reviewed science paper published
in a recognized, refereed science journal that establishes a better
theory to explain the distribution and variety of life on Earth today
than the Theory of Evolution.
True or false?
21. There has been posted, in one place in a thread somewhere in
these news groups, a supported and referenced *list* of the colossal
holes in the Theory of Evolution.
True or false?
22. It is hypocritical to demand peer-reviewed published evidence
from others in refutation of non-existent material favoring your own
arguments.
True or false?
23. References to long-dead dead topics such as "Piltdown man",
Nebraska "man", and Ramapithecus as a human ancestor are irrelevant to
the current state of the Theory of Evolution because no one but
creationists ever makes an issue of them any more.
True or false?
24. Certain creationists-in-denial will snip or ignore this entire
post because they cannot even handle a series of simple true/false
questions without realizing what a ***** they are.
True or false?
The last question is a little more difficult. It's multiple choice.
25. The match between human DNA and banana DNA is:
A. 95%
B. 75%
C. 60%
D. Greater than 50%
E. 50%
Please *support* your answer with at least one competent and
intelligent reference that does not refer to a non-existent article in
_New Scientist_, is not a throw-away quotation, and is not merely a
headline from an article that has nothing otherwise to do with the
topic.
You can hide all you want like the cowardly liar that you are, but the
questions will always be out here, very public, very unanswered, very
embarrassing.
Budikka
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| User: "Pithecanthropus Erectus" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS: Flood Legends |
16 Jun 2004 09:11:26 PM |
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jabriol wrote:
Such a cataclysm as the Deluge, which washed the whole world of
that time out of existence, would never be forgotten by the survivors.
They would talk about it to their children and their children’s
children. For 500 years after the Deluge, Shem lived on to relate the
event to many generations. He died only ten years before the birth of
Jacob. Moses preserved the true account in Genesis. Sometime after the
Flood, when God-defying people built the Tower of Babel, Jehovah
confused their language and scattered them “over all the surface of the
earth.” (Ge 11:9) It was only natural that these people took with them
stories of the Flood and passed them on from father to son. The fact
that there are not merely a few but perhaps hundreds of different
stories about that great Deluge, and that such stories are found among
the traditions of many primitive races the world over, is a strong proof
that all these people had a common origin and that their early
forefathers shared that Flood experience in common.—
These folklore accounts of the Deluge agree with some major features of
the Biblical account: (1) a place of refuge for a few survivors, (2) an
otherwise global destruction of life by water, and (3) a seed of mankind
preserved. The Egyptians, the Greeks, the Chinese, the Druids of
Britain, the Polynesians, the Eskimos and Greenlanders, the Africans,
the Hindus, and the American Indians—all of these have their Flood
stories. The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (Vol. 2, p. 319)
states: “Flood stories have been discovered among nearly all nations and
tribes. Though most common on the Asian mainland and the islands
immediately south of it and on the North American continent, they have
been found on all the continents. Totals of the number of stories known
run as high as about 270 . . . The universality of the flood accounts is
usually taken as evidence for the universal destruction of humanity by a
flood and the spread of the human race from one locale and even from one
family. Though the traditions may not all refer to the same flood,
apparently the vast majority do. The assertion that many of these flood
stories came from contacts with missionaries will not stand up because
most of them were gathered by anthropologists not interested in
vindicating the Bible, and they are filled with fanciful and pagan
elements evidently the result of transmission for extended periods of
time in a pagan society. Moreover, some of the ancient accounts were
written by people very much in opposition to the Hebrew-Christian
tradition.”—Edited by G. Bromiley, 1982.
In times past, certain primitive people (in Australia, Egypt, Fiji,
Society Islands, Peru, Mexico, and other places) preserved a possible
remnant of these traditions about the Flood by observing in November a
‘Feast of Ancestors’ or a ‘Festival of the Dead.’ Such customs reflected
a memory of the destruction caused by the Deluge. According to the book
Life and Work at the Great Pyramid, the festival in Mexico was held on
the 17th of November because they “had a tradition that at that time the
world had been previously destroyed; and they dreaded lest a similar
catastrophe would, at the end of a cycle, annihilate the human race.”
(By Professor C. Piazzi Smyth, Edinburgh, 1867, Vol. II, pp. 390, 391)
Notes the book The Worship of the Dead: “This festival [of the dead] is
. . . held by all on or about the very day on which, according to the
Mosaic account, the Deluge took place, viz., the seventeenth day of the
second month—the month nearly corresponding with our November.” (By
J. Garnier, London, 1904, p. 4) Interestingly, the Bible reports that
the Flood began “in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the
month.” (Ge 7:11) That “second month” corresponds to the latter part of
October and the first part of November on our calendar.
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