| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
04 Feb 2005 08:48:09 AM |
| Object: |
TOBS: Good logic |
An atheist professor of philosophy speaks to his class on the problem
Science has with God, The "Almighty". He asks one of his new
Christian students to stand and.....
Professor: You are a Christian, aren't you, son?
Student : Yes, sir.
Prof: So you believe in God?
Student : Absolutely, sir.
Prof: Is God good?
Student : Sure.
Prof: Is God all-powerful?
Student : Yes.
Prof: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to God to heal
him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But God
didn't. How is this God good then? Hmm? (Student kepps silence.)
Prof: You can't answer, can you? Let's start again, young fella. Is
God good?
Student :Yes.
Prof: Is Satan good?
Student : No.
Prof: Where does Satan come from?
Student : From...God... originally, yes!
Prof: That's right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world?
Student : Yes.
Prof: Evil is everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything.
Correct?
Student : Yes.
Prof: So who created evil? (Student does not answer.)
Prof: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these
terrible things exist in the world, don't they?
Student :Yes, sir.
Prof: So, who created them? (Student has no answer.)
Prof: Science says you have 5 senses you use to identify and observe
the world around you. Tell me, son...Have you ever seen God?
Student: No, sir.
Prof: Tell us if you have ever heard your God? God's voice?
Student : No , sir.
Prof: Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God, smelt your God?
Have you ever had any sensory perception of God for that matter?
Student : No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't.
Prof: Yet you still believe in Him?
Student : Yes.
Prof: According to empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science
says your GOD doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?
Student : Nothing. I only have my faith.
Prof: Yes. Faith. And that is the problem science has.
Student : Professor, is there such a thing as heat?
Prof: Yes.
Student : And is there such a thing as cold?
Prof: Yes.
Student : No sir. There isn't.
(The lecture theatre becomes very quiet with this turn of events.)
Student : Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat,
superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we
don't have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero
which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no
such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence
of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the
opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.
(There is pin-drop silence in the lecture theatre.)
Student : What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as
darkness?
Prof: Yes. What is night if there isn't darkness?
Student : You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of
something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing
light....But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and it's
called darkness, isn't it? In reality, darkness isn't. If it were you
would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?
Prof: So what is the point you are making, young man?
Student : Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.
Prof: Flawed? Can you explain how?
Student : Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue
there is life and then there is death, a good God and a bad God.You are
viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can
measure.Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity
and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either
one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the
fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing.
Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it.Now tell
me, Professor: Do you teach your students that they evolved from a
monkey?
Prof: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of
course, I do.
Student : Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?
(The Professor shakes his head with a smile, beginning to realize
where the argument is going.)
Student : Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at
work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour,
are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a
preacher? (The class is in uproar.)
Student : Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the
Professor's brain? (The class breaks out into laughter.)
Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor's
brain, felt it, touched or smelt it?.....No one appears to have done
so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable,
demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain,Sir. With
all due respect, Sir, how do we can trust your lectures, Sir?
(The room is silent. The professor stares at the student, his face
unfathomable.)
Prof: I guess you'll have to take them on faith, son.
Student : That is it sir.. The link between man & God is FAITH.
That is all that keeps things moving & alive........
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| User: "Danny Kodicek" |
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| Title: Re: Good logic (yeah, right) |
04 Feb 2005 09:02:41 AM |
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<jabriol@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:1107528489.231470.162890@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Prof: Science says you have 5 senses you use to identify and observe
the world around you. Tell me, son...Have you ever seen God?
Student: No, sir.
Prof: Tell us if you have ever heard your God? God's voice?
Student : No , sir.
Prof: Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God, smelt your God?
Have you ever had any sensory perception of God for that matter?
Student : No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't.
Prof: Yet you still believe in Him?
Student : Yes.
Prof: According to empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science
says your GOD doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?
I say 'Science doesn't claim that nothing exists except what's viewed with
the five senses. This is a complete strawman'. Science only claims that
things don't exist unless they can be shown to have some demonstrable effect
on the universe. And even then, science allows for the use of abstract
concepts which don't 'exist' in that sense, such as 'centre of mass'. So the
rest of your argument collapses.
And I notice that your supposed 'student' didn't come up with any good
answers to the problems of evil that the professor taxed him with at the
start.
Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it.Now tell
me, Professor: Do you teach your students that they evolved from a
monkey?
Prof: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of
course, I do.
No he doesn't. Humans and monkeys both evolved from a common ancestor which
was neither human nor monkey.
Student : Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?
(The Professor shakes his head with a smile, beginning to realize
where the argument is going.)
Student : Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at
work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour,
are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a
preacher? (The class is in uproar.)
Well, the class are idiots. We have observed evolution at work, so the
student is again making an incorrect argument.
Danny
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| User: "Tukla Ratte" |
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| Title: Re: Good logic (yeah, right) |
07 Feb 2005 11:05:01 AM |
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Danny Kodicek wrote:
<jabriol@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:1107528489.231470.162890@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
< snip >
Student : Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?
(The Professor shakes his head with a smile, beginning to realize
where the argument is going.)
Student : Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at
work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour,
are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a
preacher? (The class is in uproar.)
Well, the class are idiots. We have observed evolution at work, so the
student is again making an incorrect argument.
Besides, the first sentence in this silly little story tells us that the
professor is a philosopher, not a scientist.
--
Tukla, Eater of Theists, Squeaker of Chew Toys
Official Mascot of Alt.Atheism, aa 1347
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| User: "wcb" |
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| Title: Re: Good logic (yeah, right) |
07 Feb 2005 08:01:31 PM |
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Tukla Ratte wrote:
Danny Kodicek wrote:
<jabriol@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:1107528489.231470.162890@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
< snip >
Student : Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?
(The Professor shakes his head with a smile, beginning to realize
where the argument is going.)
Student : Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at
work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour,
are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a
preacher? (The class is in uproar.)
Well, the class are idiots. We have observed evolution at work, so the
student is again making an incorrect argument.
Besides, the first sentence in this silly little story tells us that the
professor is a philosopher, not a scientist.
The 'student' is stupid. yes, evolution has been witnessed by living men.
All you have to do is look at the relevant scientific literature.
Now, have we ever seen god? Have we ever seen original sin?
Have we seen Adam and Eve?
What makes any intelligent person think a feeble minded
and stupid and contradictory tall tale with no evidence for it at all
is worth believing? Deep ignorance can be the only answer.
--
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: " ~~~ P@P" |
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| Title: Re: Good logic (yeah, right) or fear of the unknown? |
07 Feb 2005 03:00:14 PM |
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"wcb" <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote in message
news:cu8dpj$2md@library2.airnews.net...
What makes any intelligent person think a feeble minded
and stupid and contradictory tall tale with no evidence for it at all
is worth believing? Deep ignorance can be the only answer.
=================================
What makes them believe? It's not just deep ignorance but their inability
to accept the inevitability and finality of their own death. They simply
can't accept the reality that HERE is all there is,...so they grasp any
straw (promise) that floats by in the hope there is something more,
somewhere... anywhere ... after they die. Religion, with it's heaven or
paradise fits the bill!
--
Footed Fish....
On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 05:56:15 -0600, (Boydette) wrote:
What its like to be "mind controlled"all your life???? I thought this
was a support group for people damaged by the JWs teachings??......I am
a classic example...learn from me....Boydette
===================================
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Good logic (yeah, right) |
07 Feb 2005 07:06:23 PM |
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The 'student' is stupid. yes, evolution has been witnessed by living
men.
All you have to do is look at the relevant scientific literature
yup, the guestimate of other people.. or maybe one of those flipomatic
and see a monkey turn itno a man before ye eyes.
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| User: "rj" |
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| Title: Re: Good logic (yeah, right) |
14 Feb 2005 06:18:55 AM |
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wrote in news:1107824783.230091.278360
@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
The 'student' is stupid. yes, evolution has been witnessed by living
men.
All you have to do is look at the relevant scientific literature
yup, the guestimate of other people.. or maybe one of those flipomatic
and see a monkey turn itno a man before ye eyes.
A monkey into a man overnight? Are you completely without reason? The only
people that see that occuring are the creationists. No scientist ever made
that claim or has presented that viewpoint. Creationists would like to us
believe that all the animals were existing and then one day "poof!" man pops
out of nowhere.
rj
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| User: "Dubh Ghall" |
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| Title: Re: Good logic (yeah, right) |
14 Feb 2005 03:55:30 PM |
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On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 12:18:55 GMT, rj <rj@yahoo.com> wrote:
jabriol@fastmail.fm wrote in news:1107824783.230091.278360
@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
The 'student' is stupid. yes, evolution has been witnessed by living
men.
All you have to do is look at the relevant scientific literature
yup, the guestimate of other people.. or maybe one of those flipomatic
and see a monkey turn itno a man before ye eyes.
A monkey into a man overnight? Are you completely without reason?
Of course he is; Completely without reason.
That is Jibbering Jabbers, you are trying to have a sensible discussion with.
--
Puck Greenman
The spelling Like any opinion stated here
purely my own
#162 BAAWA Knight.
Plonked by Rob Duncan
January 27th
Na bister 500,000
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Good logic (yeah, right) |
14 Feb 2005 04:48:40 PM |
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A monkey into a man overnight? Are you completely without reason?
Of course he is; Completely without reason.
That is Jibbering Jabbers, you are trying to have a >sensible
discussion with.
Strike of the Carolbot..again...
lets try a turing test.
Carol, How many defintion od speciation exist. And why do they
contradict each other in certain cases.
and did you feed your pet Baboon today?
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| User: "TheirGENES P@P" |
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| Title: Re: Good logic (yeah, right) |
14 Feb 2005 10:45:30 PM |
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<Jabriol@excite.com> A SOULLESS REPROBATE and STEAMING SACK OF FECES vomited
in message news:1108421320.037104.297220@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
A monkey into a man overnight? Are you completely without reason?
Of course he is; Completely without reason.
That is Jibbering Jabbers, you are trying to have a >sensible
discussion with.
Strike of the Carolbot..again...
lets try a turing test.
Carol, How many defintion od speciation exist. And why do they
contradict each other in certain cases.
and did you feed your pet Baboon today?
===================================
Yep, like Dubh says, "it's JIBBERING JABBERS!" :-D You can't reason
with a sociopathic, racist CREATIONIST like Antonio L Santana-Candia aka
Jabbers.
--
Kim....
"Jabriol wants to be loved; failing this, to be admired; failing this, to be
feared; failing even this, to be hated and despised. Jabriol wants to
arouse
some sort of feeling in people. The soul shrinks from the void and wants
contact at any price." ~ Hjalmar Soderberg ~
==========================================================
All trees (like the WTS) can be judged by the fruit (Jabriols) they produce.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Good logic (yeah, right) |
14 Feb 2005 11:37:55 PM |
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On 14 Feb 2005 14:48:40 -0800, said in alt.atheism:
A monkey into a man overnight? Are you completely without reason?
Of course he is; Completely without reason.
That is Jibbering Jabbers, you are trying to have a >sensible
discussion with.
Strike of the Carolbot..again...
Dubh lives in Great Britain. He has nothing to do with Carol.
--
rukbat at verizon dot net
"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid
consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and
ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who
works on the basis of reward and punishment. "
- Letter to M. Berkowitz, October 25, 1950; Einstein Archive 59-215
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Good logic (yeah, right) |
15 Feb 2005 05:59:35 AM |
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Dubh lives in Great Britain. He has nothing to do with Carol.
--
my apologies then, Carol is known for using remailers and changing
headers to avoid killfiles,
etc. His ad-hom attack follow her style.
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| User: "OurGENES P@P" |
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| Title: Re: Good logic (yeah, right) |
15 Feb 2005 11:40:19 AM |
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<jabriol@fastmail.fm> A LYING racist soulless reprobate spewed more lies in
message news:1108468775.265101.185270@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Dubh lives in Great Britain. He has nothing to do with Carol.
--
=======================
my apologies then, Carol is known for using remailers
# No Jabriol YOU and Precision use remailers, along with a few others here.
Lying Louie even tried to learn how to use them. Read my ISP's TOS again.
Did you miss the part about remailers?
and changing
headers to avoid killfiles,
# I have the SAME header now for a month - LIAR!
etc. His ad-hom attack follow her style.
# Stop obsessing over "CAROL."
--
Lonnie...
"Jabriol wants to be loved; failing this, to be admired; failing this, to be
feared; failing even this, to be hated and despised. Jabriol wants to
arouse
some sort of feeling in people. The soul shrinks from the void and wants
contact at any price." ~ Hjalmar Soderberg ~
==========================================================
Well, then, have I become YOUR enemy because I tell YOU the truth (about
Jabriol)?
Galatians 4:16 NWT
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ }<(((({{o>
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Good logic (yeah, right) |
07 Feb 2005 08:50:17 PM |
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On 7 Feb 2005 17:06:23 -0800, said in alt.atheism:
yup, the guestimate of other people.. or maybe one of those flipomatic
and see a monkey turn itno a man before ye eyes.
No, Jabbers, you won;t turn into a man no matter what you do. Your
crack ***** mother did a monkey and a monkey's son you'll stay.
--
There are three kinds of men:
The ones that learn by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence.
- (Will Rogers)
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "rj" |
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| Title: Re: Good logic (yeah, right) |
14 Feb 2005 05:53:47 AM |
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wcb <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote in
news:cu8dpj$2md@library2.airnews.net:
Tukla Ratte wrote:
Danny Kodicek wrote:
<jabriol@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:1107528489.231470.162890@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
< snip >
Student : Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?
(The Professor shakes his head with a smile, beginning to realize
where the argument is going.)
Student : Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at
work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour,
are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a
preacher? (The class is in uproar.)
Well, the class are idiots. We have observed evolution at work, so the
student is again making an incorrect argument.
Besides, the first sentence in this silly little story tells us that
the professor is a philosopher, not a scientist.
The 'student' is stupid. yes, evolution has been witnessed by living
men. All you have to do is look at the relevant scientific literature.
Now, have we ever seen god? Have we ever seen original sin?
Have we seen Adam and Eve?
What makes any intelligent person think a feeble minded
and stupid and contradictory tall tale with no evidence for it at all
is worth believing? Deep ignorance can be the only answer.
New specias arrive almost daily. Isn't antibiotic resistant bacteria an
example of evolution at work? Where was flesh eating bacteria 30 years
ago? Here is but one example.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/01/040130074738.htm
Nature keeps trying to evolve the homosapien but the results don't live
long. One day a super species will evolve and if it doesn't get killed
off by it's lesser bretheren, all humans will eventually be this new super
species.
The creation of new species seems to be a matter of genetics.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/09/010905073214.htm
What brought about modern religions? Oneupmanship. We used to have gods
of light, the sun, love, war, etc. These were replaced with one god that
was better than all the others. I call it religious evolution. Too bad
it has turned into an ugly monster.
to the tune of the old Ken-L-Ration jingle...
My god is better than your god,
My god is better than yours.
My god is better 'cause he made everything (and can kick your god's *****),
my god is better than yours.
rj
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Good logic (yeah, right) |
14 Feb 2005 02:38:17 PM |
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New specias arrive almost daily. Isn't antibiotic resistant bacteria
an
example of evolution at work? Where was flesh eating bacteria 30 years
ago? Here is but one example.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/01/040130074738.htm
--> And yet a bacteria is stil a bacteria.. bacteria has alwaya eaten
flesh. Justn in this case, it does while you are still alive.
Nature keeps trying to evolve the homosapien but the results don't live
long. One day a super species will evolve and if it doesn't get killed
off by it's lesser bretheren, all humans will eventually be this new
super
species.
The creation of new species seems to be a matter of genetics.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/09/010905073214.htm
-------> a bit oximoronic eh? creation of a new species?
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| User: "TheirGENES P@P" |
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| Title: Re: Good logic (yeah, right) |
14 Feb 2005 10:48:39 PM |
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<jabriol@fastmail.fm> A HATE FILLED sociopathic Jehovah's Witness wrote in
message news:1108413497.860065.57610@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
New specias arrive almost daily. Isn't antibiotic resistant bacteria
an
example of evolution at work? Where was flesh eating bacteria 30 years
===================
So tell us Jabbers,... why did you stop serving the WTS/GB after the scandal
with your daughter and her baby? Did you realize you were being duped or
did they "suggest" you leave rather than DF you? Inquiring minds want to
know.
--
Kimbo....
"The test of every religious (like the Watchtower Society), political,
or educational system is the man (like Jabriol) that it forms." -
~ Henri Amiel ~
All trees (like the WTS) can be judged by the fruit (Jabriols) they produce.
=======================================
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Good logic (yeah, right) |
14 Feb 2005 11:38:51 PM |
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On 14 Feb 2005 12:38:17 -0800, said in
alt.atheism:
--> And yet a bacteria is stil a bacteria.
And calling you a moron is still an insult to all morons.
--
rukbat at verizon dot net
"To assume the existence of an unperceivable being ... does not facilitate understanding
the orderliness we find in the perceivable world."
- Letter to an Iowa student who asked, What is God? July, 1953; Einstein Archive 59-085
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
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| User: "Enkidu" |
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| Title: Re: Good logic (yeah, right) |
07 Feb 2005 04:15:29 PM |
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wcb <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote in news:cu8dpj
$2md@library2.airnews.net:
Have we seen Adam and Eve?
Apparently, you have to visit Townsville, Australia, but I'm told that
everybody there knows Adam.
--
Enkidu AA# 2165
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then where does evil come from?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
Attributed to Epicurus 341-270 B.C.E.
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| User: "The Six Million Dollar Clayton" |
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| Title: Re: Good logic (yeah, right) |
07 Feb 2005 05:53:16 PM |
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"Enkidu" <enkidu@leaddogs.org> wrote in message
news:Xns95F6911406E28255229@130.133.1.4...
wcb <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote in news:cu8dpj
$2md@library2.airnews.net:
Have we seen Adam and Eve?
Apparently, you have to visit Townsville, Australia, but I'm told that
everybody there knows Adam.
I'm willing to bet I-Ierc has a bellybutton!!
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| User: "HaRDWiR3D hardwired at planet.nl" |
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| Title: Re: Good logic |
04 Feb 2005 08:43:56 PM |
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<jabriol@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:1107528489.231470.162890@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
An atheist professor of philosophy speaks to his class on the problem
Science has with God, The "Almighty".
Liar. We have as much problems w/ your god as you do w/ Santa, trolls and
dwarfs.
Its the religious who have a problem w/ infidels.
And as a reply to your ***** story:
The professor, amused at the student's antics, asks the student whether he's
ever read anything about science.
"No," says the student. "I only know what I've heard in church."
"That explains your ignorance about what science is, young man," says the
professor. "Empirical knowledge of something does not always entail direct
observation. We can observe the effects of something and know that it must
exist. Electrons have not been observed, but they can create an observable
trail that can be observed, so we can know they exist."
"Oh," said the Christian.
"No one has observed my heart, but we can hear it beating. We also know from
empirical knowledge of people that no one can live without a heart, real or
manufactured, or at least not without being also hooked up to some medical
equipment. So we can know that I have a heart even though we have not seen
it."
"Oh, I see. That makes sense," said the Christian student.
"Similarly, we can know that I have a brain. I wouldn't be able to talk,
walk, and so on unless I had one, would I?" said the professor.
"I guess not."
"In fact, if I had no brain I couldn't do anything at all. Except maybe
become a televangelist!"
The class broke up with laughter. Even the Christian laughed.
"Evolution is known to be true because of evidence," continued the
professor. "It is the best explanation for the fossil record. Even prominent
creationists admit that the transition from reptiles to mammals is well
documented in the fossil record. A creationist debate panel, including
Michael Behe and Philip Johnson, conceded this on a televised debate on PBS.
It was on Buckley's "Firing Line" show. Did you see it?"
The Christian student cleared his throat and said in a low voice, "My mom
won't let me watch educational TV. She thinks it will weaken my faith."
The professor shook his head sadly. "Knowledge does have a way of doing
that," he said. "But in any case, evolution is also the best explanation for
phenomena that have been observed."
The Christian student sputters, "You--you mean we HAVE seen it?"
"Of course. Evolution has occured within recent times, and it continues to
occur. Birds and insects not native to Hawaii were introduced just a couple
of centuries ago and have evolved to take better advantage of the different
flora. So this evolution has taken place within recorded history. Recent
history. Did you know that?"
"Uh, no."
"Viruses other diseases evolve to become resistant to medicine. This is not
only observed but it is a major problem that science must confront every
day. Mosquitos in the tunnels of London's underground have evolved to become
separate species because of their isolation from other groups of mosquitos.
But enough about evolution. That doesn't have anything to do with our issue,
evil, does it?"
"Well..."
"What does it have to do with our issue?" asked the professor.
"Well, if you don't believe in god, then you must believe we came from
apes."
The professor laughed. "Evolutionists don't believe that people came from
apes or even monkeys. They believe that humans and apes had a common
ancestor."
"Wow!" said the Christian. "That's not what they told me at church."
"I'm sure. They can't refute evolution so they have to spread misinformation
about it. But don't you know that many Christians believe that god made
humans by evolution?"
"I didn't know that."
"In fact, of the four people who debated the evolution side on PBS, on
William F. Buckley's 'Firing Line,' which I just mentioned, two of them were
theists. One of them is a reverend, in fact."
"Really?"
"Really. Many denominations of Christianity embrace evolution. Catholicism,
the largest denomination of Christianity, is compatible with evolution. So
evolution is not relevant here, is it?"
"I guess not."
"Even if it were true that you have to be an atheist to believe evolution,
which is not the case, and even if it were the case that evolution was
unsupported by evidence, which is also not the case, this would not explain
evil at all, would it. It is irrelevant."
"I see that now," said the Christian. "I don't even know why I brought it
up. I guess I thought it was an example of how you believe something without
evidence."
"Well," said the professor. "As you can see, it is not. There is plenty of
evidence for evolution. And even if there were no evidence, this has no
bearing on the issue of evil. As we proceed through the philosophy course,
you will see how to use your reasoning ability to separate important issues
from irrelevant ones."
"I'm guess learning already," said the student, looking at the floor.
"But back to the problem of evil," said the professor. "You stated that evil
is the absence of good. How does that solve the problem of evil?"
The student said lifelessly: "If evil is the absence of good, then god did
not create evil." It was evident that this was something the student had
learned by rote and had often repeated.
The professor shrugged his shoulders. "Okay, let's suppose for the moment
that this is true. This still does not explain evil. If a tidal wave wipes
out a whole town, and 100,000 people die, is that evil?"
"There is the absence of good," said the student.
"But so what? The problem is why god did not prevent the disaster. If god is
all-powerful he can prevent it, and if he is all-knowing he knows that it is
about to happen. So whether he created the tidal wave is not relevant. What
we want to know is why he did not do anything to stop it."
The student looked confused. "But why should he prevent it? It's not his
fault."
"If a human being had the power to prevent a tidal wave wiping out a town,
and this person intentionally failed to stop it, we would not say that the
person is good. Even if the person said, 'It's not my fault,' we would be
appalled that someone could stand by and do nothing as thousands die. So if
god does not prevent natural disasters, and he is able to do so, we should
not say that god is good by the same reasoning. In fact, we would probably
say that god is evil."
The Christian student thought for a moment. "I guess I'd have to agree."
"So redefining evil as the absence of good does nothing to solve the problem
of evil," said the professor. "At best it shows that god did not create it,
but this does not explain why god does not prevent it."
The Christian student shook a finger at the professor. "But that's according
to our human standards. What if god has a higher morality? We can't judge
him by our standards."
The professor laughed. "Then you just lost your case. If you admit that god
does not fit our definition of good, then we should not call him good. Case
closed."
"I don't understand," said the student, wrinkling his brow.
"If I go outside and see a vehicle with four tires, a metal body, a steering
wheel, a motor and so on, and it fits the definition of a car, is it a car?"
"Of course it is," said the Christian student. "That's what a car is."
"But what if someone says that on some other definition it could be
considered an airplane. Does that mean it's not a car?"
"No," said the student. "It still fits the definition of a car. That's what
we mean by saying that it's a car. It doesn't fit the definition of an
airplane, so we shouldn't call it that."
"Exactly," said the professor. "If it fits the definition, then that's what
it is. If god fits the definition of good, then he is good. If he does not,
then he is not. If you admit that he does not fit our definition of good,
then he is not good. It does no good to say that he could be 'good' in some
other definition. If we want to know whether he is good by our definition,
you have answered that question. God is not good."
"I don't believe it!" said the Christian student. "A few minutes ago I would
have laughed at the suggestion that god is not good, but now I actually
agree. God doesn't fit the definition of good, so he's not good."
"There you go," said the professor.
"But wait a minute," said the student. "God could still be good in some
other definition even if we don't call him good. Despite what we think, god
could still have his own morality that says he's good. Even if we couldn't
call him good, that doesn't mean that he isn't good on some definition. He
could have his own definition anyway."
"Oh, you would not want to push the view that god might be good in some
other definition," said the professor.
"Why not?" "Well, if he has definitions of things that are radically
different from our own, he might have a different definition of lots of
other things. He might have his own definitions of such things as eternal
reward, or eternal life. Your supposed eternal life in heaven might just be
a year, or it could be a thousand years of torture. God could just say he
has a definition of reward that includes excruciating torture as part of the
definition."
"That's right!" said the Christian, jumping up. His eyes were wide open. "If
god can redefine any word, then anything goes. God could send all believers
to what we call hell and say that it is heaven. He could give us ten days in
heaven and say that that's his definition of eternity!"
"Now you're thinking!" said the professor, pointing a finger at the student.
"This is what a philosophy class is supposed to do for students."
The Christian student continued. "God could promise us eternal life and then
not give it to us and say that's his definition of keeping a promise!"
"Yes, yes," said the professor.
"I can't believe I used to fall for this Christianity stuff. It's so
indefensible," said the student, shaking his head. "Just a few moment's
thought and all the arguments that my church gave me in Sunday school just
collapse."
"So it would seem," said the professor.
"I'm going to go to my church tonight and give the pastor a piece of my
mind. They never tell me about important stuff like this. And they sure
didn't tell me the truth about evolution!"
The student, who stood up as a Christian, now sat down as an atheist. And he
started using his brain--because that's what it's for. The other students in
the class sat there, stunned, for a few moments. They knew they had
witnessed the changing of a person's life, the redirection of a young mind
from falsehood and religious dogma to the honest pursuit of truth.
The students looked at each other and then began applauding. This soon gave
way to cheering. The professor took a bow, laughing. When the students
calmed down he continued his lecture, and class attendance was high for the
rest of the semester.
(from http://www.bowness.demon.co.uk/brain.htm)
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| User: "Robert Weldon" |
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| Title: Re: Good logic |
04 Feb 2005 09:01:31 AM |
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<jabriol@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:1107528489.231470.162890@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
An atheist professor of philosophy speaks to his class on the problem
Science has with God, The "Almighty". He asks one of his new
silly story snipped
Plagiarized, old story, a pathetic attempt at that, and logic holes you can
drive a truck through. Finally, completely wrong on evolution not being
observed, it has been observed and documented.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Good logic |
04 Feb 2005 09:47:52 AM |
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Plagiarized, old story, a pathetic attempt at that, and logic holes you
can
drive a truck through. Finally, completely wrong on evolution not
being
observed, it has been observed and documented.
and the holes are???
and evolution is not observed. unless you are a few billions years old.
this is why it does not pass the scientific method.
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| User: "Tukla Ratte" |
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| Title: Re: Good logic |
07 Feb 2005 11:06:38 AM |
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wrote:
< snip >
and evolution is not observed. unless you are a few billions years old.
this is why it does not pass the scientific method.
So what do *you* think keeps the sun lit?
--
Tukla, Eater of Theists, Squeaker of Chew Toys
Official Mascot of Alt.Atheism, aa 1347
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| User: "~~ P@P" |
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| Title: Re: Good logic |
07 Feb 2005 12:12:35 PM |
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"Tukla Ratte" <tukla_ratte@tukla.net> wrote in message
news:36plguF53vtj6U2@individual.net...
jabriol@fastmail.fm wrote:
< snip >
and evolution is not observed. unless you are a few billions years old.
this is why it does not pass the scientific method.
So what do *you* think keeps the sun lit?
============================
Give Jabbers a chance to go through all his Watchtower Society rags and
books for the answer. And Jabbers *IS* a creationist as are all Jehovah's
Witnesses.
--
Linda....
L Perez bleated: BEWARE! there are people on this newsgroup who are only
here to slander and
lie about Jehovah's Witnesses. They do not offer any alternative
organization...
Note: No other organization can even come close to the WTS' record of six,
false-alarm end-of-the world predictions in the 20th century.
(Credit to RLM)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Good logic |
07 Feb 2005 07:02:59 PM |
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So what do *you* think keeps the sun lit?
fusion??? or the ancient mysterions?
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| User: "Tukla Ratte" |
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| Title: Re: Good logic |
10 Feb 2005 10:11:25 AM |
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wrote:
So what do *you* think keeps the sun lit?
fusion???
But we haven't been able to directly look at the sun's core, so by your
standards that is an unscientific answer.
or the ancient mysterions?
Angelic flatulence.
--
Tukla, Eater of Theists, Squeaker of Chew Toys
Official Mascot of Alt.Atheism, aa 1347
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| User: "Budikka666" |
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| Title: Re: Good logic |
08 Feb 2005 06:29:24 PM |
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wrote:
So what do *you* think keeps the sun lit?
fusion??? or the ancient mysterions?
If it's anything to do with you, it's not fusion, but utter confusion,
you cowardly liar. It takes a real man to stand for what he believes.
It takes a Santana to run like a scared cat.
Go ahead and snip now - we all know a dickless coward like you can do
no other. But those unanswered questions you keep running from will
haunt you to your grave, you have my word on it.
Budikka
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Good logic |
09 Feb 2005 09:13:56 PM |
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Budikka666 wrote:
jabriol@fastmail.fm wrote:
So what do *you* think keeps the sun lit?
fusion??? or the ancient mysterions?
If it's anything to do with you, it's not fusion, but utter
confusion,
you cowardly liar.
http://zebu.uoregon.edu/~soper/Sun/fusion.html
It takes a real man to stand for what he believes.
It takes a Santana to run like a scared cat.
Go ahead and snip now -
ok
SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSNNNNNNNNNNNIpppppppppppppPPPPPPPPPPPpppppppppppP
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| User: "Fred Hall" |
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| Title: Re: Good logic |
09 Feb 2005 09:23:06 PM |
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On 9 Feb 2005 19:13:56 -0800, wrote:
Budikka666 wrote:
wrote:
So what do *you* think keeps the sun lit?
fusion??? or the ancient mysterions?
If it's anything to do with you, it's not fusion, but utter
confusion,
you cowardly liar.
http://zebu.uoregon.edu/~soper/Sun/fusion.html
It takes a real man to stand for what he believes.
It takes a Santana to run like a scared cat.
Go ahead and snip now -
ok
SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSNNNNNNNNNNNIpppppppppppppPPPPPPPPPPPpppppppppppP
So, 'Tonio, what keeps the sun lit? Is it fusion? I didn't catch
your answer.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Good logic |
10 Feb 2005 06:02:15 AM |
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So, 'Tonio, what keeps the sun lit? Is it fusion? I didn't catch
your answer.
Apollo
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