TOBS: Hamburger and morals



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "jabriol"
Date: 02 Jun 2004 05:44:12 AM
Object: TOBS: Hamburger and morals

Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 18:00:47 -0700
From: Dave Oldridge
Subject: Re: Re: an interesting challange!!!


therfore what are Morals?
my comment is the same defintion I give to

Evidence.

So bloody what. The fact that there are thieves

and

murderers in
the world does not give YOU any excuse to steal

and

murder.




excellent reply.. however evolution does not care.


Evolution, being merely a scientific description of

what happens

obviously is not capable of "caring" about anything.

exactly!!


If your family is hungry and your neighbour has in
abundance, and after you asked him, and even offer

to

work for him.. and he gives you naught...
well


Uh, actually the BIBLE reflects this morality in

Deuteronomy. You

are permitted to break the commandment if it is a

matter of life

and death, though you are required to repay threefold

to square

such a debt.

Not that I am aware of. do you have any specifics? to
back up your
claims?

your family and their well being is more important
than his...

guess who going to have a good meal?

it is matter of survival.


And to some extent, this is true. But it is also

true that by

joining forces with your neighbour you might be able

to produce

more food than the two of you can separately.

so, two tribes joins together to kill off another for
food.. a pre-
hisroric coalition, ...what of it?

Humans are
successful not because we are ruthless killers.

Evolution has not

even equipped us to be killers, really, though it has

provided us

with brains to enable us to do it if we have to.

like to kill off the competition, to survive.

But those same
brains permit us to cooperate for mutual

benefit--permit us to talk

to one another and make plans and negotiate

settlements rather than

engage in costly battles.

Are you sure? I can rule "costly battles" as Natural
selection
stragety to remove the weak, and the old.


war are fought today for no different. survival of

the

fittest, the fit take the resource. the weak or the
loser dies.
no moral or ethics involved?


Genetic survival is not MERELY a matter of who lives

and who dies.
Of course it is.

Nor are we NECESSARILY in competition with others of

our species or

even with other species.

Yes we are. when was the last time you went to KFC or
ate a Hamburger?
it either we eat the cow of the cow eats us!!! :-)


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User: "Lam Son 719"

Title: Re: TOBS: Hamburger and morals 03 Jun 2004 12:08:48 PM
jabriol <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message news:<20040602104412.61664.qmail@web10804.mail.yahoo.com>...

Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 18:00:47 -0700
From: Dave Oldridge
But those same
brains permit us to cooperate for mutual

benefit--permit us to talk

to one another and make plans and negotiate

settlements rather than

engage in costly battles.




Are you sure? I can rule "costly battles" as Natural
selection
stragety to remove the weak, and the old.

Natural selection has no strategy. "Costly battles" are, well,
costly--i.e., those engaged in them suffer a cost, presumably in
fitness. Those not engaged in them avoid this cost and are thus more
apt to reproduce. In this case, selection will favor
costly-battle-avoidance.



war are fought today for no different. survival of

the

fittest, the fit take the resource. the weak or the
loser dies.
no moral or ethics involved?


Genetic survival is not MERELY a matter of who lives

and who dies.

Of course it is.

Of course it is not. *Everybody* dies. It is a matter of who
reproduces more and who reproduces less before they die.


Nor are we NECESSARILY in competition with others of

our species or

even with other species.


Yes we are. when was the last time you went to KFC or
ate a Hamburger?
it either we eat the cow of the cow eats us!!! :-)

The cow eats us? What are cows like where you come from? In my
experience they are obligate herbivores, and would not even scavenge
our dead flesh.
"Competition" is an odd word to use for our relationship with cattle.
For the human populations that eat beef, "symbiosis" is a better word.
Populations of beefeaters and their cattle prosper together. In fact,
one might argue that cow genes have won the artiodactyl lottery by
developing a beast coveted by humans--there is no danger of cows going
extinct as long as humans love to eat them. Hamburger eating societies
go to great lengths to ensure the reproduction of cattle.
In fact, humans may even sacrifice their own interests on behalf of
bovine populations. Cows *do* compete with humans for land on which to
grow food for those who can't afford beef, and some think they have
been all too successful in their competition.
.


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