| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"JaBrIoL" |
| Date: |
29 Jan 2004 11:02:47 AM |
| Object: |
TOBS: I found a car in the dessert.. |
Hi all,
Imagine if you found a car in the desert, would you claim it was
evolution that got it there?, and if the motor is still running, would
you claim it to be running due to an act of nature?
two remarkable qualities of our sun and other stars are long-term
efficiency and stability. Consider a simple illustration. We know that
to run efficiently, an automobile engine needs a critical ratio
between fuel and air; engineers design complex mechanical and computer
systems to optimize performance. If that is so with a mere engine,
what of the efficiently "burning" stars such as our sun? The key
forces involved are precisely tuned, optimized for life. Did that
precision just happen? The ancient man Job was asked: "Did you
proclaim the rules that govern the heavens, or determine the laws of
nature on earth?" (Job 38:33, The New English Bible) No human did. So
from where does the precision come?
The structure of the universe involves much more than fine-tuning just
gravity and the electromagnetic force. Two other physical forces also
relate to our life.
These two forces operate in the nucleus of an atom, and they give
ample evidence of forethought. Consider the strong nuclear force,
which glues protons and neutrons together in the nucleus of the atom.
Because of this bonding, various elements can form—light ones (such as
helium and oxygen) and heavy ones (such as gold and lead). It seems
that if this binding force were a mere 2-percent weaker, only hydrogen
would exist. Conversely, if this force were slightly stronger, only
heavier elements, but no hydrogen, could be found. Would our lives be
affected? Well, if the universe lacked hydrogen, our sun would not
have the fuel it needs to radiate life-giving energy. And, of course,
we would have no water or food, since hydrogen is an essential
ingredient of both.
The fourth force called the weak nuclear force, controls radioactive
decay. It also affects thermonuclear activity in our sun. ‘Is this
force fine-tuned?' you might ask. Mathematician and physicist Freeman
Dyson explains: "The weak [force] is millions of times weaker than the
nuclear force. It is just weak enough so that the hydrogen in the sun
burns at a slow and steady rate. If the weak [force] were much
stronger or much weaker, any forms of life dependent on sunlike stars
would again be in difficulties." Yes, this precise rate of burning
keeps our earth warm—but not incinerated—and keeps us alive.
Furthermore, scientists believe that the weak force plays a role in
supernova explosions, which they give as the mechanism for producing
and distributing most elements. "If those nuclear forces were in any
way slightly different from the way they actually are, the stars would
be incapable of making the elements of which you and I are composed,"
explains physicist John Polkinghorne.
More could be said, but you likely understand the point. There is an
amazing degree of fine-tuning in these four fundamental forces. "All
around us, we seem to see evidence that nature got it just right,"
wrote Professor Paul Davies. Yes, the precise tuning of the
fundamental forces has made possible the existence and operation of
our sun, our delightful planet with its life-sustaining water, our
atmosphere so vital for life, and a vast array of precious chemical
elements on earth. But ask yourself, ‘Why such precise tuning, and
from where?'
.
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| User: "MS DOS" |
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| Title: Re: I found a car in the dessert.. |
29 Jan 2004 04:57:40 PM |
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"JaBrIoL" <Jabriol@excite.com> a known CREATIONIST and sociopath, wrote in
message news:d222de3e.0401290902.7ee9df13@posting.google.com...
Hi all,
Imagine if you found a car in the desert, would you claim it was
evolution that got it there?, and if the motor is still running, would
you claim it to be running due to an act of nature?
$$ More BS straight from the Watchtower magazines. Would you consider a
cactus in the desert with several flowers in it an act of nature? Or
would you picture some invisible ghost magically "creating" it?
Watchtower magazine crap snipped for our sanity.....
--
Dicky.....
"Men (like L Perez) never do evil so completely and
cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
~ Blaise Pascal (1623-1662) ~
~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~*
.
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| User: "The other Donald" |
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| Title: Re: I found a car in the dessert.. |
29 Jan 2004 11:13:42 AM |
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"JaBrIoL" <Jabriol@excite.com> wrote in message
news:d222de3e.0401290902.7ee9df13@posting.google.com...
Hi all,
Imagine if you found a car in the desert,
I'd turn on the AC and drive that ***** for all it's worth.
<snip rest of debunked, christer *****>
-Donald in Austin
AA #2104
Apatriot #22
Atheist FF/EMT
.....and ordained minister
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| User: "Roger Pearse" |
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| Title: Re: I found a car in the dessert.. |
30 Jan 2004 02:01:27 PM |
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Really? Most people don't eat that much ice-cream... :)
Didn't it spoil the flavour, rather? Or is this just some new recipe
-- vanilla, strawberry, Mercedes...
All the best,
Roger Pearse
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| User: "The other Donald" |
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| Title: Re: I found a car in the dessert.. |
31 Jan 2004 10:34:11 AM |
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"Roger Pearse" <roger_pearse@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3a88eeea.0401301201.211db0fa@posting.google.com...
Really? Most people don't eat that much ice-cream... :)
Didn't it spoil the flavour, rather? Or is this just some new recipe
-- vanilla, strawberry, Mercedes...
D'OH!!!
Ya got me.....
-DMc
All the best,
Roger Pearse
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| User: "The other Donald" |
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| Title: Re: I found a car in the dessert.. |
31 Jan 2004 10:36:10 AM |
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"Roger Pearse" <roger_pearse@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3a88eeea.0401301201.211db0fa@posting.google.com...
Really? Most people don't eat that much ice-cream... :)
Didn't it spoil the flavour, rather? Or is this just some new recipe
-- vanilla, strawberry, Mercedes...
D'OH!!!
Ya got me.....
-DMc
All the best,
Roger Pearse
.
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| User: "Frank Reichenbacher" |
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| Title: Re: I found a car in the dessert.. |
30 Jan 2004 07:27:04 AM |
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"JaBrIoL" <Jabriol@excite.com> wrote in message
news:d222de3e.0401290902.7ee9df13@posting.google.com...
Hi all,
Imagine if you found a car in the desert, would you claim it was
evolution that got it there?, and if the motor is still running, would
you claim it to be running due to an act of nature?
Imagine if you found a moronic cretinist like Jabberdickhead in the dessert,
would you put chocolate syrup on it?
Frank
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| User: "B. Kildow" |
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| Title: Re: I found a car in the dessert.. |
30 Jan 2004 10:08:39 AM |
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Frank Reichenbacher wrote:
"JaBrIoL" <Jabriol@excite.com> wrote in message
news:d222de3e.0401290902.7ee9df13@posting.google.com...
Hi all,
Imagine if you found a car in the desert, would you claim it was
evolution that got it there?, and if the motor is still running, would
you claim it to be running due to an act of nature?
Imagine if you found a moronic cretinist like Jabberdickhead in the dessert,
would you put chocolate syrup on it?
Frank
Is there an anthill nearby?
BK
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| User: "Boo" |
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| Title: Re: I found a car in the dessert.. |
29 Jan 2004 11:21:41 AM |
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"JaBrIoL" <Jabriol@excite.com> wrote in message
news:d222de3e.0401290902.7ee9df13@posting.google.com...
Hi all,
Imagine if you found a car in the desert, would you claim it was
evolution that got it there?, and if the motor is still running, would
you claim it to be running due to an act of nature?
And you thing an old white guy with a white beard and white hair sitting on
a throne in a white cloud somewhere made it?
Natural Light Black and White Photography
http://mysite.verizon.net/geost/
-George-
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| User: "jabriol" |
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| Title: Re: I found a car in the dessert.. |
29 Jan 2004 06:04:01 PM |
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"Boo" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:d22edd2a388b765e5262d7cc8a9ca1c7@news.teranews.com...
"JaBrIoL" <Jabriol@excite.com> wrote in message
news:d222de3e.0401290902.7ee9df13@posting.google.com...
Hi all,
Imagine if you found a car in the desert, would you claim it was
evolution that got it there?, and if the motor is still running, would
you claim it to be running due to an act of nature?
And you thing an old white guy with a white beard and white hair sitting
on
a throne in a white cloud somewhere made it?
Ford had white hair when he designed the model-t?
Natural Light Black and White Photography
http://mysite.verizon.net/geost/
-George-
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: I found a car in the dessert.. |
29 Jan 2004 07:10:52 PM |
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"JaBrIoL" <Jabriol@excite.com> wrote in message
news:d222de3e.0401290902.7ee9df13@posting.google.com...
Hi all,
Imagine if you found a car in the desert, would you claim it was
evolution that got it there?, and if the motor is still running, would
you claim it to be running due to an act of nature?
I'd examine the car. Closely. What's this? In several place the
word "Ford" Hmm.. Inside, I open the mapbox and find the owner's
manual.. Ah! This car was made by the Ford Motor Company of Michigan!
If the car is running, I discover how to stop it, and then reserve my
steps to restart the engine. I have now discover how the engine is
started. Since the process is ergonomically designed to be done by a
huamn, my theory is a human started the car. I look for this person
before driving away.
That's how a scientist answers these questions. You just scream "it's
a miracle!"
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
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| User: "SD" |
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| Title: Re: I found a car in the dessert.. |
29 Jan 2004 09:19:01 PM |
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"Douglas Berry" <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message
news:0hbj10ls5iqeuc0fobj87vut0gnb3j3bf1@4ax.com...
That's how a scientist answers these questions. You just scream "it's
a miracle!"
What's a scientist? One of those people that believe there is no creator
because they can show a 1 in 10^100 chance that the universe happened by
chance? Not very scientific.
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| User: "MS DOS" |
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| Title: Re: I found a car in the dessert.. |
30 Jan 2004 12:11:30 AM |
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"SD" <SD@steam.com> wrote in message
news:B2kSb.185340$na.307992@attbi_s04...
What's a scientist? One of those people that believe there is no
creator
because they can show a 1 in 10^100 chance that the universe happened by
chance? Not very scientific.
==========================\
Nor is a ghost dropping down from the clouds and magically creating
people.
--
Iris Gardenz......
The JWs keep saying it (Armageddon) is imminent, just a matter of time,
only a matter of
weeks or months from the predicted date.... 1874(+40), 1878(+40), 1910,
1914, 1915, 1916, 1917, 1918, 1922, 1925, 1940, 1945, 1975, 1999/2000...
(PB)
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
.
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| User: "JaBrIoL" |
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| Title: Re: I found a car in the dessert.. |
30 Jan 2004 06:23:06 AM |
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"MS DOS" <noWTvomit@myplace.com> wrote in message news:<uMGdndyC9KwKaITd4p2dnA@heartoftn.net>...
"SD" <SD@steam.com> wrote in message
news:B2kSb.185340$na.307992@attbi_s04...
What's a scientist? One of those people that believe there is no
creator
because they can show a 1 in 10^100 chance that the universe happened by
chance? Not very scientific.
==========================\
Nor is a ghost dropping down from the clouds and magically creating
people.
no such thing as a ghost. No magic involved here..
golly, carol born-again atheist, former JW groupies and hasn't learn
a thing about atheism nor jw's..
go home and service your husband ...
let the science discussion in hand of those who know..
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| User: "011010010110" |
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| Title: Re: I found a car in the dessert.... and an IMPOTENT Jabriol :-) |
30 Jan 2004 01:30:23 PM |
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"JaBrIoL" <Jabriol@excite.com> wrote in message
news:d222de3e.0401300423.43a77984@posting.google.com...
"MS DOS" <noWTvomit@myplace.com> wrote in message
news:<uMGdndyC9KwKaITd4p2dnA@heartoftn.net>...
Nor is a ghost dropping down from the clouds and magically creating
people.
no such thing as a ghost. No magic involved here..
$$ Then explain to us how your Watchtower god accomplished this feat.
We're all ears. ;-) If it wasn't MAGIC what was it?
golly, carol born-again atheist, former JW groupies and hasn't learn
a thing about atheism nor jw's..
$$ You seem obsessed beyond redemption by CAROL. LOL!!!!
go home and service your husband ...
$$ I am home (I don't carry my desktop PC around with me) and he has been
"serviced" as you Jehovah's Witlesses call it. Doesn't that make you
jealous since you can no longer be "serviced" by your wife? Beyond
Viagra? Try an implant. I bet that will put you in a better humor and a
smile on your shriveled, pock-market, swarthy, oily, gnome-like face. ;-)
let the science discussion in hand of those who know..
$$ Which sure as shootin' isn't YOU!
--
MiKrobez & Alice.....
(Jabriol) should be more careful in the way he presents
himself. Some people here might start pulling out all those
JW quotes about "knowing the tree by its fruit" (Credit to Campbell)
====================================================><>
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| User: "jabriol" |
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| Title: Re: I found a car in the dessert.... and an IMPOTENT Jabriol :-) |
30 Jan 2004 05:05:52 PM |
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"011010010110" <noWTvomit@myplace.com> wrote in message
news:7PWdncTH-7e9L4fdRVn-sQ@heartoftn.net...
"JaBrIoL" <Jabriol@excite.com> wrote in message
news:d222de3e.0401300423.43a77984@posting.google.com...
"MS DOS" <noWTvomit@myplace.com> wrote in message
news:<uMGdndyC9KwKaITd4p2dnA@heartoftn.net>...
Nor is a ghost dropping down from the clouds and magically creating
people.
no such thing as a ghost. No magic involved here..
$$ Then explain to us how your Watchtower god accomplished this feat.
We're all ears. ;-) If it wasn't MAGIC what was it?
a watchtower god???.... stop drinking and smoking wacky weed.
golly, carol born-again atheist, former JW groupies and hasn't learn
a thing about atheism nor jw's..
$$ You seem obsessed beyond redemption by CAROL. LOL!!!!
go home and service your husband ...
$$ I am home (I don't carry my desktop PC around with me) and he has been
"serviced" as you Jehovah's Witlesses call it.
sure......
Doesn't that make you
jealous since you can no longer be "serviced" by your wife?
I see you are getting nasty agaun eh?
Beyond
Viagra? Try an implant.
yup.. is that all atheist like you have on your mind.. I thought you wer
happy once your menopause was over
I bet that will put you in a better humor and a
smile on your shriveled, pock-market, swarthy, oily, gnome-like face. ;-)
don't confuse my wondeful contenance of that of your dad..
let the science discussion in hand of those who know..
$$ Which sure as shootin' isn't YOU!
well. it not me who changing the subject with Sex.
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| User: "010110110" |
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| Title: Re: I found a car in the dessert.... and an IMPOTENT Jabriol :-) |
31 Jan 2004 12:35:22 AM |
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"jabriol" <jabriol@cymech.net> a mentally ill Jehovah's Witness misogynist
and sociopath wrote in message
news:krBSb.6094163$be.998751@news.easynews.com...
"011010010110" <noWTvomit@myplace.com> wrote in message
news:7PWdncTH-7e9L4fdRVn-sQ@heartoftn.net...
$$ Then explain to us how your Watchtower god accomplished this feat.
We're all ears. ;-) If it wasn't MAGIC what was it?
a watchtower god???.... stop drinking and smoking wacky weed.
## Misdirection noted once again. I don't NEED them like you need your
drugs to function. Isn't that nice? :-)
$$ I am home (I don't carry my desktop PC around with me) and he has
been
"serviced" as you Jehovah's Witlesses call it.
sure......
## Misdirection once again noted. I don't carry my desktop PC around
with me.
Doesn't that make you
jealous since you can no longer be "serviced" by your wife?
I see you are getting nasty agaun eh?
## What? Another misdirection? You're on a roll.
Beyond
Viagra? Try an implant.
yup.. is that all atheist like you have on your mind.. I thought you wer
happy once your menopause was over
## What? Yet another misdirection? You're on a roll.
I bet that will put you in a better humor and a
smile on your shriveled, pock-market, swarthy, oily, gnome-like face.
;-)
don't confuse my wondeful contenance of that of your dad..
## What? Yet another misdirection? You're on a roll. I KNOW who my dad
was - you never did, being raised on welfare in a ghetto. :-)
$$ Which sure as shootin' isn't YOU!
well. it not me who changing the subject with Sex.
## Yes, you did. LOL!!! Read your post again.
--
MiKrobez......
(Jabriol) should be more careful in the way he presents
himself. Some people here might start pulling out all those
JW quotes about "knowing the tree by its fruit" (Credit to Campbell)
====================================================><>
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| User: "Maverick" |
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| Title: Re: I found a car in the dessert.. |
30 Jan 2004 07:21:45 AM |
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(JaBrIoL) wrote in
news:d222de3e.0401300423.43a77984@posting.google.com:
"MS DOS" <noWTvomit@myplace.com> wrote in message
news:<uMGdndyC9KwKaITd4p2dnA@heartoftn.net>...
"SD" <SD@steam.com> wrote in message
news:B2kSb.185340$na.307992@attbi_s04...
What's a scientist? One of those people that believe there is no
creator
because they can show a 1 in 10^100 chance that the universe
happened by chance? Not very scientific.
==========================\
Nor is a ghost dropping down from the clouds and magically creating
people.
no such thing as a ghost. No magic involved here..
golly, carol born-again atheist, former JW groupies and hasn't learn
a thing about atheism nor jw's..
go home and service your husband ...
let the science discussion in hand of those who know..
Yes, them and you too, apparently.
.
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| User: "Andrew" |
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| Title: Re: I found a car in the dessert.. |
30 Jan 2004 06:23:51 AM |
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"SD" <SD@steam.com> wrote in message news:<B2kSb.185340$na.307992@attbi_s04>...
"Douglas Berry" <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message
news:0hbj10ls5iqeuc0fobj87vut0gnb3j3bf1@4ax.com...
That's how a scientist answers these questions. You just scream "it's
a miracle!"
What's a scientist? One of those people that believe there is no creator
because they can show a 1 in 10^100 chance that the universe happened by
chance? Not very scientific.
I am a Christian and I find your comment completely bizarre! Care to
back up your baseless claim with some *evidence*? Not to mention
you've just insulted the thousands of dedicated scientists the world
over who happen to be Christians (some of them even work in the field
of evolutionary biology).
Science has *nothing* to say about the existence of the supernatural.
To claim otherwise is to demonstrate a vast ignorance of science and
its methods. Please read your Bible and see what it has to say about
"bearing false witness".
Thankyou
Andrew
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| User: "jabriol" |
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| Title: Re: I found a car in the dessert.. |
30 Jan 2004 05:12:59 PM |
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"Andrew" <ah_mini@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:27eaec6.0401300423.30a42918@posting.google.com...
"SD" <SD@steam.com> wrote in message
news:<B2kSb.185340$na.307992@attbi_s04>...
"Douglas Berry" <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message
news:0hbj10ls5iqeuc0fobj87vut0gnb3j3bf1@4ax.com...
That's how a scientist answers these questions. You just scream "it's
a miracle!"
What's a scientist? One of those people that believe there is no
creator
because they can show a 1 in 10^100 chance that the universe happened by
chance? Not very scientific.
I am a Christian and I find your comment completely bizarre!
Christian.. yup let me guess, your one of those christians that support
evolution and thus call Jesus a liar.. right?
Care to
back up your baseless claim with some *evidence*? Not to mention
you've just insulted the thousands of dedicated scientists the world
over who happen to be Christians (some of them even work in the field
of evolutionary biology).
yup I thought so..
Science has *nothing* to say about the existence of the supernatural.
To claim otherwise is to demonstrate a vast ignorance of science and
its methods. Please read your Bible and see what it has to say about
"bearing false witness".
actually it does, that why religion is not taught in the public school
system.
.
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| User: "Andrew" |
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| Title: Re: I found a car in the dessert.. |
31 Jan 2004 07:43:00 PM |
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"jabriol" <jabriol@cymech.net> wrote in message news:<%xBSb.7119517$Of.1141287@news.easynews.com>...
"Andrew" <ah_mini@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:27eaec6.0401300423.30a42918@posting.google.com...
"SD" <SD@steam.com> wrote in message
news:<B2kSb.185340$na.307992@attbi_s04>...
"Douglas Berry" <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message
news:0hbj10ls5iqeuc0fobj87vut0gnb3j3bf1@4ax.com...
That's how a scientist answers these questions. You just scream "it's
a miracle!"
What's a scientist? One of those people that believe there is no
creator
because they can show a 1 in 10^100 chance that the universe happened by
chance? Not very scientific.
I am a Christian and I find your comment completely bizarre!
Christian.. yup let me guess, your one of those christians that support
evolution and thus call Jesus a liar.. right?
Yes and no, and your baseless insult is noted. Are you ever going to
grow up, or are you permanently trapped in your early teens?! On
second thoughts, I've just insulted teenagers the world over!!
Care to
back up your baseless claim with some *evidence*? Not to mention
you've just insulted the thousands of dedicated scientists the world
over who happen to be Christians (some of them even work in the field
of evolutionary biology).
yup I thought so..
What are you drooling on about this time jabbers?
Science has *nothing* to say about the existence of the supernatural.
To claim otherwise is to demonstrate a vast ignorance of science and
its methods. Please read your Bible and see what it has to say about
"bearing false witness".
actually it does, that why religion is not taught in the public school
system.
Care to back this up, or is this yet another of your baseless
assertions??
Andrew
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| User: "jabriol" |
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| Title: Re: I found a car in the dessert.. |
31 Jan 2004 08:26:10 PM |
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"Andrew" <ah_mini@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:27eaec6.0401311743.49c2ebef@posting.google.com...
"jabriol" <jabriol@cymech.net> wrote in message
news:<%xBSb.7119517$Of.1141287@news.easynews.com>...
"Andrew" <ah_mini@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:27eaec6.0401300423.30a42918@posting.google.com...
"SD" <SD@steam.com> wrote in message
news:<B2kSb.185340$na.307992@attbi_s04>...
"Douglas Berry" <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message
news:0hbj10ls5iqeuc0fobj87vut0gnb3j3bf1@4ax.com...
That's how a scientist answers these questions. You just scream
"it's
a miracle!"
What's a scientist? One of those people that believe there is no
creator
because they can show a 1 in 10^100 chance that the universe
happened by
chance? Not very scientific.
I am a Christian and I find your comment completely bizarre!
Christian.. yup let me guess, your one of those christians that support
evolution and thus call Jesus a liar.. right?
Yes and no, and your baseless insult is noted. Are you ever going to
grow up, or are you permanently trapped in your early teens?! On
second thoughts, I've just insulted teenagers the world over!!
there is no yes and no. If you believe in evolution, you call Jesus a liar.
very simple no insult was intended.
Care to
back up your baseless claim with some *evidence*? Not to mention
you've just insulted the thousands of dedicated scientists the world
over who happen to be Christians (some of them even work in the field
of evolutionary biology).
yup I thought so..
What are you drooling on about this time jabbers?
Science has *nothing* to say about the existence of the supernatural.
To claim otherwise is to demonstrate a vast ignorance of science and
its methods. Please read your Bible and see what it has to say about
"bearing false witness".
actually it does, that why religion is not taught in the public school
system.
Care to back this up, or is this yet another of your baseless
assertions??
find me a public school, that teach an alternative to evolution, in the
states..
Andrew
tony
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| User: "SD" |
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| Title: Re: I found a car in the dessert.. |
30 Jan 2004 01:44:26 PM |
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"Andrew" <ah_mini@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:27eaec6.0401300423.30a42918@posting.google.com...
"SD" <SD@steam.com> wrote in message
news:<B2kSb.185340$na.307992@attbi_s04>...
"Douglas Berry" <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message
news:0hbj10ls5iqeuc0fobj87vut0gnb3j3bf1@4ax.com...
That's how a scientist answers these questions. You just scream "it's
a miracle!"
What's a scientist? One of those people that believe there is no
creator
because they can show a 1 in 10^100 chance that the universe happened by
chance? Not very scientific.
I am a Christian and I find your comment completely bizarre! Care to
back up your baseless claim with some *evidence*? Not to mention
you've just insulted the thousands of dedicated scientists the world
over who happen to be Christians (some of them even work in the field
of evolutionary biology).
You misunderstood me, I'm not bashing scientists in general. I'm saying
that scientists can be swayed by personal bias. As for evolutionary
biologists, I'm assuming you're referring to micro evolution and not macro
evolution.
Science has *nothing* to say about the existence of the supernatural.
To claim otherwise is to demonstrate a vast ignorance of science and
its methods.
I don't recall making any such claims.
Please read your Bible and see what it has to say about
"bearing false witness".
This is a serious charge. I'd like you to justify such a comment.
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| User: "Andrew" |
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| Title: Re: I found a car in the dessert.. |
30 Jan 2004 07:45:49 PM |
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"SD" <SD@steam.com> wrote in message news:<uuySb.188978$xy6.970579@attbi_s02>...
"Andrew" <ah_mini@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:27eaec6.0401300423.30a42918@posting.google.com...
"SD" <SD@steam.com> wrote in message
news:<B2kSb.185340$na.307992@attbi_s04>...
"Douglas Berry" <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message
news:0hbj10ls5iqeuc0fobj87vut0gnb3j3bf1@4ax.com...
That's how a scientist answers these questions. You just scream "it's
a miracle!"
What's a scientist? One of those people that believe there is no
creator
because they can show a 1 in 10^100 chance that the universe happened by
chance? Not very scientific.
I am a Christian and I find your comment completely bizarre! Care to
back up your baseless claim with some *evidence*? Not to mention
you've just insulted the thousands of dedicated scientists the world
over who happen to be Christians (some of them even work in the field
of evolutionary biology).
You misunderstood me, I'm not bashing scientists in general. I'm saying
that scientists can be swayed by personal bias. As for evolutionary
biologists, I'm assuming you're referring to micro evolution and not macro
evolution.
This is something of a dramatic retreat from your original statement
that implied very strongly that scientists, as a whole, do not believe
in a creator. Why didn't you just say what you said in the above
paragraph. I can only assume that you worded your original claim so
badly as to distort its meaning from what you intended? You might also
consider that even though scientists, being human, are subject to
bias, the scientific method operates in such a way (by means of peer
review) as to correct such biases.
Also, please dispense with the tired ol' creationist micro/macro
evolution manipulation. Exactly the same mechanisms drive
"macroevolution" and "microevolution". The only difference is the
amount of time involved. Ask any evolutionary biologist this,
regardless of their religious beliefs (or lack thereof). Just out of
interest, how do *you* define micro and macro evolution?
Science has *nothing* to say about the existence of the supernatural.
To claim otherwise is to demonstrate a vast ignorance of science and
its methods.
I don't recall making any such claims.
Then don't try and pass sweeping generalisations that associate
scientists with the denial of a creator. If that was not your
intention then be more careful with your claims in the future. Many
creationists *do* make this claim and it appeared you were aligning
yourself with them.
Please read your Bible and see what it has to say about
"bearing false witness".
This is a serious charge. I'd like you to justify such a comment.
Your initial claim, as worded, is enough to justify the charge. It
seems you are now retracting the claim and replacing it with a more
carefully-considered response. In which case the charge no longer
applies.
Andrew
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| User: "SD" |
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| Title: Re: I found a car in the dessert.. |
30 Jan 2004 08:28:03 PM |
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"Andrew" <ah_mini@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:27eaec6.0401301745.dea1491@posting.google.com...
"SD" <SD@steam.com> wrote in message
news:<uuySb.188978$xy6.970579@attbi_s02>...
"Andrew" <ah_mini@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:27eaec6.0401300423.30a42918@posting.google.com...
"SD" <SD@steam.com> wrote in message
news:<B2kSb.185340$na.307992@attbi_s04>...
"Douglas Berry" <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message
news:0hbj10ls5iqeuc0fobj87vut0gnb3j3bf1@4ax.com...
That's how a scientist answers these questions. You just scream
"it's
a miracle!"
What's a scientist? One of those people that believe there is no
creator
because they can show a 1 in 10^100 chance that the universe
happened by
chance? Not very scientific.
I am a Christian and I find your comment completely bizarre! Care to
back up your baseless claim with some *evidence*? Not to mention
you've just insulted the thousands of dedicated scientists the world
over who happen to be Christians (some of them even work in the field
of evolutionary biology).
You misunderstood me, I'm not bashing scientists in general. I'm saying
that scientists can be swayed by personal bias. As for evolutionary
biologists, I'm assuming you're referring to micro evolution and not
macro
evolution.
This is something of a dramatic retreat from your original statement
that implied very strongly that scientists, as a whole, do not believe
in a creator. Why didn't you just say what you said in the above
paragraph. I can only assume that you worded your original claim so
badly as to distort its meaning from what you intended? You might also
consider that even though scientists, being human, are subject to
bias, the scientific method operates in such a way (by means of peer
review) as to correct such biases.
Also, please dispense with the tired ol' creationist micro/macro
evolution manipulation. Exactly the same mechanisms drive
"macroevolution" and "microevolution". The only difference is the
amount of time involved. Ask any evolutionary biologist this,
regardless of their religious beliefs (or lack thereof). Just out of
interest, how do *you* define micro and macro evolution?
Science has *nothing* to say about the existence of the supernatural.
To claim otherwise is to demonstrate a vast ignorance of science and
its methods.
I don't recall making any such claims.
Then don't try and pass sweeping generalisations that associate
scientists with the denial of a creator. If that was not your
intention then be more careful with your claims in the future. Many
creationists *do* make this claim and it appeared you were aligning
yourself with them.
Please read your Bible and see what it has to say about
"bearing false witness".
This is a serious charge. I'd like you to justify such a comment.
Your initial claim, as worded, is enough to justify the charge. It
seems you are now retracting the claim and replacing it with a more
carefully-considered response. In which case the charge no longer
applies.
Andrew
Andrew,
You are right, my statement was very poorly worded. As far as micro vs.
macro evolution, I think it would be best if I just shut up and stop
pretending I have even the vaguest clue about the topic. It's very clear to
see that I shot my mouth off before engaging my brain. My apologies...
SD
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: I found a car in the dessert.. |
30 Jan 2004 11:28:30 AM |
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Lo, many moons past, on Fri, 30 Jan 2004 03:19:01 GMT, a stranger
called by some "SD" <SD@steam.com> came forth and told this tale in
alt.atheism
"Douglas Berry" <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message
news:0hbj10ls5iqeuc0fobj87vut0gnb3j3bf1@4ax.com...
That's how a scientist answers these questions. You just scream "it's
a miracle!"
What's a scientist? One of those people that believe there is no creator
because they can show a 1 in 10^100 chance that the universe happened by
chance? Not very scientific.
I don't believe in a creator because it's a non-scientific sop. We've
found evidence of the Big Bang, so that theory is confirmed. What
caused that explosion, and what came before? No idea, yet.
But the concept that the entire universe, or life, was just *plopped*
into existence is ridiculous and unsupportable.
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: I found a car in the dessert.. |
30 Jan 2004 12:40:16 AM |
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On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 03:19:01 GMT, "SD" <SD@steam.com> wrote:
"Douglas Berry" <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message
news:0hbj10ls5iqeuc0fobj87vut0gnb3j3bf1@4ax.com...
That's how a scientist answers these questions. You just scream "it's
a miracle!"
What's a scientist? One of those people that believe there is no creator
because they can show a 1 in 10^100 chance that the universe happened by
chance? Not very scientific.
Straw man fallacy.
To prove me wrong, identify your 'One' scientist who professes to
believe that.
.
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| User: "SD" |
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| Title: Re: I found a car in the dessert.. |
30 Jan 2004 11:46:45 AM |
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"Michael Gray" <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in message
news:7tuj105o5i6kclrtk2863ifb2fga1siec9@4ax.com...
On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 03:19:01 GMT, "SD" <SD@steam.com> wrote:
"Douglas Berry" <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message
news:0hbj10ls5iqeuc0fobj87vut0gnb3j3bf1@4ax.com...
That's how a scientist answers these questions. You just scream "it's
a miracle!"
What's a scientist? One of those people that believe there is no creator
because they can show a 1 in 10^100 chance that the universe happened by
chance? Not very scientific.
Straw man fallacy.
To prove me wrong, identify your 'One' scientist who professes to
believe that.
Are you suggesting there are no scientists or researchers in the world that
adopt the random chance philosophy, even though they are aware that the
probability of such an occurrence is incredibly small?
.
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| User: "The other Donald" |
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| Title: Re: I found a car in the dessert.. |
30 Jan 2004 12:12:46 PM |
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"SD" <SD@steam.com> wrote in message
news:9MwSb.190642$na.317054@attbi_s04...
"Michael Gray" <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in message
news:7tuj105o5i6kclrtk2863ifb2fga1siec9@4ax.com...
On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 03:19:01 GMT, "SD" <SD@steam.com> wrote:
"Douglas Berry" <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message
news:0hbj10ls5iqeuc0fobj87vut0gnb3j3bf1@4ax.com...
That's how a scientist answers these questions. You just scream
"it's
a miracle!"
What's a scientist? One of those people that believe there is no
creator
because they can show a 1 in 10^100 chance that the universe happened
by
chance? Not very scientific.
Straw man fallacy.
To prove me wrong, identify your 'One' scientist who professes to
believe that.
Are you suggesting there are no scientists or researchers in the world
that
adopt the random chance philosophy, even though they are aware that the
probability of such an occurrence is incredibly small?
Once again, you are alluding to "a scientist." Show us the "scientist" that
is saying this, and agrees with your claim of "1 in 10^100 chance."
Just because you two claim "some scientist believes...blah, blah, blah"
doesn't make it so. I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing. You must prove
your claim or no further discussion is warranted, and your rhetorical
question with fluctuating premises means less than squat.
-Donald in Austin
AA #2104
.
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| User: "jabriol" |
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| Title: Re: I found a car in the dessert.. |
30 Jan 2004 05:08:16 PM |
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|
"The other Donald" <the_donald_13@yehaw2.com> wrote in message
news:y8xSb.22817$eY2.4291@fe2.texas.rr.com...
"SD" <SD@steam.com> wrote in message
news:9MwSb.190642$na.317054@attbi_s04...
"Michael Gray" <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in message
news:7tuj105o5i6kclrtk2863ifb2fga1siec9@4ax.com...
On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 03:19:01 GMT, "SD" <SD@steam.com> wrote:
"Douglas Berry" <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message
news:0hbj10ls5iqeuc0fobj87vut0gnb3j3bf1@4ax.com...
That's how a scientist answers these questions. You just scream
"it's
a miracle!"
What's a scientist? One of those people that believe there is no
creator
because they can show a 1 in 10^100 chance that the universe happened
by
chance? Not very scientific.
Straw man fallacy.
To prove me wrong, identify your 'One' scientist who professes to
believe that.
Are you suggesting there are no scientists or researchers in the world
that
adopt the random chance philosophy, even though they are aware that the
probability of such an occurrence is incredibly small?
Once again, you are alluding to "a scientist." Show us the "scientist"
that
is saying this, and agrees with your claim of "1 in 10^100 chance."
Just because you two claim "some scientist believes...blah, blah, blah"
doesn't make it so. I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing. You must prove
your claim or no further discussion is warranted, and your rhetorical
question with fluctuating premises means less than squat.
-Donald in Austin
AA #2104
does evolution pass the scientific method?
.
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| User: "The other Donald" |
|
| Title: Re: I found a car in the dessert.. |
30 Jan 2004 05:49:34 PM |
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"jabriol" <jabriol@cymech.net> wrote in message
news:AtBSb.6094347$be.998877@news.easynews.com...
"The other Donald" <the_donald_13@yehaw2.com> wrote in message
news:y8xSb.22817$eY2.4291@fe2.texas.rr.com...
"SD" <SD@steam.com> wrote in message
news:9MwSb.190642$na.317054@attbi_s04...
"Michael Gray" <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in message
news:7tuj105o5i6kclrtk2863ifb2fga1siec9@4ax.com...
On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 03:19:01 GMT, "SD" <SD@steam.com> wrote:
"Douglas Berry" <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in
message
news:0hbj10ls5iqeuc0fobj87vut0gnb3j3bf1@4ax.com...
That's how a scientist answers these questions. You just scream
"it's
a miracle!"
What's a scientist? One of those people that believe there is no
creator
because they can show a 1 in 10^100 chance that the universe
happened
by
chance? Not very scientific.
Straw man fallacy.
To prove me wrong, identify your 'One' scientist who professes to
believe that.
Are you suggesting there are no scientists or researchers in the world
that
adopt the random chance philosophy, even though they are aware that
the
probability of such an occurrence is incredibly small?
Once again, you are alluding to "a scientist." Show us the "scientist"
that
is saying this, and agrees with your claim of "1 in 10^100 chance."
Just because you two claim "some scientist believes...blah, blah, blah"
doesn't make it so. I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing. You must prove
your claim or no further discussion is warranted, and your rhetorical
question with fluctuating premises means less than squat.
-Donald in Austin
AA #2104
does evolution pass the scientific method?
Which part of evolution are you talking about?
"Evolution," so to speak, is a term given to a observations that encompass
several fields of science, mathematics, biology, etc. Your question is a
vague reference that shows you've spent too much time beating up strawmen
and repeating whatever crap du jour you've read in Watchtower or Chick
Tracts, and not enough time thinking about what you are actually saying.
I now see why they call you Jabbers.....
-Donald in Austin
AA #2104
Apatriot #22
Atheist FF/EMT
.....and ordained minister
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