| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"JaBrIoL" |
| Date: |
10 Nov 2003 01:34:15 PM |
| Object: |
TOBS: Rama, them Hindu ape's \ A Budikka Gap. |
About 14 million years ago, there was Rama or Ramapithecus-Rama's ape
(Rama was a mythical prince of India). Fossils of it were found in
India about a century ago. From these fossils was constructed an
apelike creature, upright, on two limbs. Of it Origins stated: "As far
as one can say at the moment, it is the first representative of the
human family."
What was the fossil evidence for this conclusion? The same
publication remarked: "The evidence concerning Ramapithecus is
considerable-though in absolute terms it remains tantalizingly small:
fragments of upper and lower jaws, plus a collection of teeth." Do you
think that this was "considerable" enough "evidence" to reconstruct an
upright "ape-man" ancestor of humans? Yet, this mostly hypothetical
creature was drawn by artists as an "ape-man," and pictures of it
flooded evolutionary literature-all on the basis of jawbone fragments
and teeth! Still, as The New York Times reported, for decades
Ramapithecus "sat as securely as anything can at the base of the human
evolutionary tree."
However, that is no longer the case. Recent and more complete fossil
finds revealed that Ramapithecus closely resembled the present-day ape
family. So New Scientist now declares: "Ramapithecus cannot have been
the first member of the human line." Such new information provoked the
following question in Natural History magazine: "How did Ramapithecus,
.. . . reconstructed only from teeth and jaws-without a known pelvis,
limb bones, or skull-sneak into this manward-marching procession?"
Obviously, a great deal of wishful thinking must have gone into such
an effort to make the evidence say what it does not say.
.
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| User: "Linda" |
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| Title: Re: Rama, them Hindu ape's \ A Budikka Gap. |
11 Nov 2003 05:44:45 AM |
|
|
14 million!?
You know the parabolic curve of inaccuracy for C14 dating is dramatic over
1000 years , its even inaccurate 700 years let alone 14 million.
your thoughts?
"JaBrIoL" <Jabriol@excite.com> wrote in message
news:d222de3e.0311101134.35e1766e@posting.google.com...
About 14 million years ago, there was Rama or Ramapithecus-Rama's ape
(Rama was a mythical prince of India). Fossils of it were found in
India about a century ago. From these fossils was constructed an
apelike creature, upright, on two limbs. Of it Origins stated: "As far
as one can say at the moment, it is the first representative of the
human family."
What was the fossil evidence for this conclusion? The same
publication remarked: "The evidence concerning Ramapithecus is
considerable-though in absolute terms it remains tantalizingly small:
fragments of upper and lower jaws, plus a collection of teeth." Do you
think that this was "considerable" enough "evidence" to reconstruct an
upright "ape-man" ancestor of humans? Yet, this mostly hypothetical
creature was drawn by artists as an "ape-man," and pictures of it
flooded evolutionary literature-all on the basis of jawbone fragments
and teeth! Still, as The New York Times reported, for decades
Ramapithecus "sat as securely as anything can at the base of the human
evolutionary tree."
However, that is no longer the case. Recent and more complete fossil
finds revealed that Ramapithecus closely resembled the present-day ape
family. So New Scientist now declares: "Ramapithecus cannot have been
the first member of the human line." Such new information provoked the
following question in Natural History magazine: "How did Ramapithecus,
. . . reconstructed only from teeth and jaws-without a known pelvis,
limb bones, or skull-sneak into this manward-marching procession?"
Obviously, a great deal of wishful thinking must have gone into such
an effort to make the evidence say what it does not say.
.
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| User: "Alice Billingham" |
|
| Title: Re: Rama, them Hindu ape's \ A Budikka Gap. |
11 Nov 2003 01:06:50 PM |
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"Linda" <linda_j_d@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:1068550948.180287@kangaroo.ozonline.com.au...
14 million!?
You know the parabolic curve of inaccuracy for C14 dating is dramatic over
1000 years , its even inaccurate 700 years let alone 14 million.
your thoughts?
=====================
THIS is straight from the Watchtower Society Magazines! LOL!!! They're
about as unscientific as you can get. They're written by unpaid volunteers,
most of which don't even have HS diplomas.
Note: Linda is another Jehovah's Witness like the well known sociopath and
pathological liar - Jabriol.
Alice
.
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| User: "jabriol" |
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| Title: Re: Rama, them Hindu ape's \ A Budikka Gap. |
11 Nov 2003 04:58:27 PM |
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"Alice Billingham" <nospam@spamless.net> wrote in message
news:3fb13349@news.heartoftn.net...
"Linda" <linda_j_d@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:1068550948.180287@kangaroo.ozonline.com.au...
14 million!?
You know the parabolic curve of inaccuracy for C14 dating is dramatic
over
1000 years , its even inaccurate 700 years let alone 14 million.
your thoughts?
=====================
THIS is straight from the Watchtower Society Magazines! LOL!!! They're
about as unscientific as you can get. They're written by unpaid
volunteers,
most of which don't even have HS diplomas.
Note: Linda is another Jehovah's Witness like the well known sociopath and
pathological liar - Jabriol.
Alice
Carol has been caught in various vicious lies, with intent to slander JW's
Before you reply, you may want to ask her a few things or only one.
_Where does she get her information?
_Can her information be verified?
_Is the information up to date?
_What is the purpose of her post? To present reliable facts or sling mud on
a religious organization in good standing in almost every country in the
world?
Ask her for evidence of her claims before proceeding with your conversation
with her, if not you may be end up wasting your time on discussing subjects
based on fraudulent and fabricated information. Therefore participating with
her attempt at slander, and distributing false information elsewhere, may
make you a lying fool as well.. Why throw Pearls at swine?
Facts about Carol:
*She can never present evidence.
*she never reveal the source of her info(because there is none). Her common
reply, is
"everybody already knows". If everybody knew, why bring it up?
*She always hide her identity. And change her header to avoid killfiles.
*She cuts and paste, rewrite postings, and will even forge e-mail addreses
which her ISP allows her to do.
And if you don't belive me...just read her reply on this thread..
She can't resists...
She knows Jabriol is always right.
If you want to get rid of Carol, tell her to go home and service her
husband, like any decent honorable housewife would.
.
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| User: "Budikka" |
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| Title: Re: Rama, them Hindu ape's \ A Budikka Gap. |
19 Nov 2003 09:02:02 PM |
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Antonio has been caught in various vicious lies, with intent to
slander scientists. Before you reply, you may want to ask him:
Can his information be verified?
(It never can)
Is the information up to date?
(It rarely is)
What is the purpose of his post? To present reliable facts or to
sling mud on a scientific theory in good standing in literally every
country in the world? (it's the latter)
Ask him for evidence of his claims (he never gives any) before
proceeding with your conversation. If you don't, you will end up
wasting your time. If you do, you will also end up wasting your time:
he ignores requests for supportive evidence and questions that involve
him backing up anything he claims, because his posts are entirely
based on fraudulent and/or fabricated information or argument from
incredulity. Thus you're only encouraging his lies, slander,
hypocrisy and distribution of false information which will make you a
lying fool as well. Why throw gems at an ignorant pig?
Facts about Antonio:
*He can never present evidence.
*He never reveal the source of his info(because there is none).
*His common reply, is "Snip".
*He always hides his identity under the pretentious pseudonym of
"Jabriol", pretending he is the archangel Gabriel when he's really
just hypocritical (as his response in this thread proves conclusively)
psycho-babbler Antonio Santana (aka Satan) who has been asking the
same dumb questions and been receiving the same intleligent, helpful,
informative, scientific replies for at least a half-decade, all of
which he has completely ignored.
*He cuts and pastes, rewrites postings, and will even forge evidence
or steal it from creationist web sites without attribution, without
reference, and without supportive evidence.
And if you don't believe me...just read his replies.
He can't resist - he knows Budikka is right and he is wrong and he
cannot stand it.
If you want to get rid of Antonio, tell him the truth, ask difficult
questions about real science, and he will flee from any thread like a
long-tailed cat from a rocking chair convention.
Budikka
.
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| User: "Michelle Malkin" |
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| Title: Re: Rama, them Hindu ape's \ A Budikka Gap. |
19 Nov 2003 11:57:44 PM |
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On 19 Nov 2003 19:02:02 -0800, (Budikka) wrote:
Antonio has been caught in various vicious lies, with intent to
slander scientists. Before you reply, you may want to ask him:
Can his information be verified?
(It never can)
Is the information up to date?
(It rarely is)
What is the purpose of his post? To present reliable facts or to
sling mud on a scientific theory in good standing in literally every
country in the world? (it's the latter)
Ask him for evidence of his claims (he never gives any) before
proceeding with your conversation. If you don't, you will end up
wasting your time. If you do, you will also end up wasting your time:
he ignores requests for supportive evidence and questions that involve
him backing up anything he claims, because his posts are entirely
based on fraudulent and/or fabricated information or argument from
incredulity. Thus you're only encouraging his lies, slander,
hypocrisy and distribution of false information which will make you a
lying fool as well. Why throw gems at an ignorant pig?
Facts about Antonio:
*He can never present evidence.
*He never reveal the source of his info(because there is none).
*His common reply, is "Snip".
*He always hides his identity under the pretentious pseudonym of
"Jabriol", pretending he is the archangel Gabriel when he's really
just hypocritical (as his response in this thread proves conclusively)
psycho-babbler Antonio Santana (aka Satan) who has been asking the
same dumb questions and been receiving the same intleligent, helpful,
informative, scientific replies for at least a half-decade, all of
which he has completely ignored.
*He cuts and pastes, rewrites postings, and will even forge evidence
or steal it from creationist web sites without attribution, without
reference, and without supportive evidence.
And if you don't believe me...just read his replies.
He can't resist - he knows Budikka is right and he is wrong and he
cannot stand it.
If you want to get rid of Antonio, tell him the truth, ask difficult
questions about real science, and he will flee from any thread like a
long-tailed cat from a rocking chair convention.
Budikka
I haven't heard that long-tailed cat line since the old Tennesse Ernie
Ford Show back in the 1950's. The way Ford said it was 'a long-tailed
cat in a room full of rocking chairs'. I also liked the one about the
black cat in the coal cellar at midnight. (What year did "Sixteen
Tons" come out?)
Geeze, am I ever feeling ancient!
Michelle Malkin (Mickey)
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
Hands that work are better than mouths that pray -
Robert Ingersoll
****************************************************
.
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| User: "~* Egg Plant *~" |
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| Title: Re: Rama, them Hindu ape's \ A Budikka Gap. |
20 Nov 2003 02:12:39 AM |
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"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:0klorvckqeqi10o2f5mjvebrni6k3fkl4n@4ax.com...
I also liked the one about the
black cat in the coal cellar at midnight. (What year did "Sixteen
Tons" come out?)
Geeze, am I ever feeling ancient!
Michelle Malkin (Mickey)
=========
It was between 1953 and 1955 I believe.
--
Me.....
SUBJECT: Best Bumper Sticker of the Year:
If you can read this, thank a teacher....
If you are reading it in English, thank a Veteran
º¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤º ~*~ ~*~ º¤º°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤º ~*~ ~*~
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Rama, them Hindu ape's \ A Budikka Gap. |
21 Nov 2003 01:26:06 AM |
|
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In article <0klorvckqeqi10o2f5mjvebrni6k3fkl4n@4ax.com>,
Michelle Malkin <hypatiab7@earthlink.net> wrote:
On 19 Nov 2003 19:02:02 -0800, (Budikka) wrote:
Antonio has been caught in various vicious lies, with intent to
slander scientists. Before you reply, you may want to ask him:
Can his information be verified?
(It never can)
Is the information up to date?
(It rarely is)
What is the purpose of his post? To present reliable facts or to
sling mud on a scientific theory in good standing in literally every
country in the world? (it's the latter)
Ask him for evidence of his claims (he never gives any) before
proceeding with your conversation. If you don't, you will end up
wasting your time. If you do, you will also end up wasting your time:
he ignores requests for supportive evidence and questions that involve
him backing up anything he claims, because his posts are entirely
based on fraudulent and/or fabricated information or argument from
incredulity. Thus you're only encouraging his lies, slander,
hypocrisy and distribution of false information which will make you a
lying fool as well. Why throw gems at an ignorant pig?
Facts about Antonio:
*He can never present evidence.
*He never reveal the source of his info(because there is none).
*His common reply, is "Snip".
*He always hides his identity under the pretentious pseudonym of
"Jabriol", pretending he is the archangel Gabriel when he's really
just hypocritical (as his response in this thread proves conclusively)
psycho-babbler Antonio Santana (aka Satan) who has been asking the
same dumb questions and been receiving the same intleligent, helpful,
informative, scientific replies for at least a half-decade, all of
which he has completely ignored.
*He cuts and pastes, rewrites postings, and will even forge evidence
or steal it from creationist web sites without attribution, without
reference, and without supportive evidence.
And if you don't believe me...just read his replies.
He can't resist - he knows Budikka is right and he is wrong and he
cannot stand it.
If you want to get rid of Antonio, tell him the truth, ask difficult
questions about real science, and he will flee from any thread like a
long-tailed cat from a rocking chair convention.
Budikka
I haven't heard that long-tailed cat line since the old Tennesse Ernie
Ford Show back in the 1950's. The way Ford said it was 'a long-tailed
cat in a room full of rocking chairs'. I also liked the one about the
black cat in the coal cellar at midnight. (What year did "Sixteen
Tons" come out?)
Geeze, am I ever feeling ancient!
"...Another day older and deeper in debt..."
It made No. 11 on the top 100 in 1955, although according to the site
listed below, it was written in 1947. I can still remember listening
to it on the AM radio while riding in my dad's '49 Ford. Yikes!
http://www.webfitz.com/lyrics/Tbl1955.html
--
John Hachmann, aa #1782
- Question authority. Now more than ever. -
.
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| User: "Michelle Malkin" |
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| Title: Re: Rama, them Hindu ape's \ A Budikka Gap. |
23 Nov 2003 10:05:13 PM |
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On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 23:26:06 -0800, johac <jhachm@remove.ixpres.com>
wrote:
In article <0klorvckqeqi10o2f5mjvebrni6k3fkl4n@4ax.com>,
Michelle Malkin <hypatiab7@earthlink.net> wrote:
On 19 Nov 2003 19:02:02 -0800, (Budikka) wrote:
Antonio has been caught in various vicious lies, with intent to
slander scientists. Before you reply, you may want to ask him:
Can his information be verified?
(It never can)
Is the information up to date?
(It rarely is)
What is the purpose of his post? To present reliable facts or to
sling mud on a scientific theory in good standing in literally every
country in the world? (it's the latter)
Ask him for evidence of his claims (he never gives any) before
proceeding with your conversation. If you don't, you will end up
wasting your time. If you do, you will also end up wasting your time:
he ignores requests for supportive evidence and questions that involve
him backing up anything he claims, because his posts are entirely
based on fraudulent and/or fabricated information or argument from
incredulity. Thus you're only encouraging his lies, slander,
hypocrisy and distribution of false information which will make you a
lying fool as well. Why throw gems at an ignorant pig?
Facts about Antonio:
*He can never present evidence.
*He never reveal the source of his info(because there is none).
*His common reply, is "Snip".
*He always hides his identity under the pretentious pseudonym of
"Jabriol", pretending he is the archangel Gabriel when he's really
just hypocritical (as his response in this thread proves conclusively)
psycho-babbler Antonio Santana (aka Satan) who has been asking the
same dumb questions and been receiving the same intleligent, helpful,
informative, scientific replies for at least a half-decade, all of
which he has completely ignored.
*He cuts and pastes, rewrites postings, and will even forge evidence
or steal it from creationist web sites without attribution, without
reference, and without supportive evidence.
And if you don't believe me...just read his replies.
He can't resist - he knows Budikka is right and he is wrong and he
cannot stand it.
If you want to get rid of Antonio, tell him the truth, ask difficult
questions about real science, and he will flee from any thread like a
long-tailed cat from a rocking chair convention.
Budikka
I haven't heard that long-tailed cat line since the old Tennesse Ernie
Ford Show back in the 1950's. The way Ford said it was 'a long-tailed
cat in a room full of rocking chairs'. I also liked the one about the
black cat in the coal cellar at midnight. (What year did "Sixteen
Tons" come out?)
Geeze, am I ever feeling ancient!
"...Another day older and deeper in debt..."
It made No. 11 on the top 100 in 1955, although according to the site
listed below, it was written in 1947. I can still remember listening
to it on the AM radio while riding in my dad's '49 Ford. Yikes!
http://www.webfitz.com/lyrics/Tbl1955.html
Thank you, John.
Wow, does that top 100 list bring back memories. I was only 8
years old in 1955, but I was crazy about the Four Aces verion of
"Love Is A Many Splendored Thing" It's a beautiful version of the
song that I like to this day. (I have the 45 my father bought.)
That list is a look at the birth of rock 'n roll with:
9. Rock Around the Clock by Bill Haley & the Comets
25. Maybellene by Chuck Berry
26. Only You by the Platters
45. It's A Sin To Tell A Lie by Somethin' Smith & The Redheads
50. Earth Angel by the Penguins
92. Razzle Dazzle by Bill Haley & the Comets
And, of course, a bunch of rip-offs by people like Pat Boone,
The McGuire Sisters, Gale Storm (that's "My Little Margie",
for Chissake!) and the Crewcuts. Every version by the original
black artists has always turned out to be better.
Michelle Malkin (Mickey)
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
Hands that work are better than mouths that pray -
Robert Ingersoll
****************************************************
.
|
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Rama, them Hindu ape's \ A Budikka Gap. |
23 Nov 2003 11:05:05 PM |
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In article <imv2svkj6ipnvibtjvgn1npoh931atfkjj@4ax.com>,
Michelle Malkin <hypatiab7@earthlink.net> wrote:
On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 23:26:06 -0800, johac <jhachm@remove.ixpres.com>
wrote:
In article <0klorvckqeqi10o2f5mjvebrni6k3fkl4n@4ax.com>,
Michelle Malkin <hypatiab7@earthlink.net> wrote:
On 19 Nov 2003 19:02:02 -0800, (Budikka) wrote:
Antonio has been caught in various vicious lies, with intent to
slander scientists. Before you reply, you may want to ask him:
Can his information be verified?
(It never can)
Is the information up to date?
(It rarely is)
What is the purpose of his post? To present reliable facts or to
sling mud on a scientific theory in good standing in literally every
country in the world? (it's the latter)
Ask him for evidence of his claims (he never gives any) before
proceeding with your conversation. If you don't, you will end up
wasting your time. If you do, you will also end up wasting your time:
he ignores requests for supportive evidence and questions that involve
him backing up anything he claims, because his posts are entirely
based on fraudulent and/or fabricated information or argument from
incredulity. Thus you're only encouraging his lies, slander,
hypocrisy and distribution of false information which will make you a
lying fool as well. Why throw gems at an ignorant pig?
Facts about Antonio:
*He can never present evidence.
*He never reveal the source of his info(because there is none).
*His common reply, is "Snip".
*He always hides his identity under the pretentious pseudonym of
"Jabriol", pretending he is the archangel Gabriel when he's really
just hypocritical (as his response in this thread proves conclusively)
psycho-babbler Antonio Santana (aka Satan) who has been asking the
same dumb questions and been receiving the same intleligent, helpful,
informative, scientific replies for at least a half-decade, all of
which he has completely ignored.
*He cuts and pastes, rewrites postings, and will even forge evidence
or steal it from creationist web sites without attribution, without
reference, and without supportive evidence.
And if you don't believe me...just read his replies.
He can't resist - he knows Budikka is right and he is wrong and he
cannot stand it.
If you want to get rid of Antonio, tell him the truth, ask difficult
questions about real science, and he will flee from any thread like a
long-tailed cat from a rocking chair convention.
Budikka
I haven't heard that long-tailed cat line since the old Tennesse Ernie
Ford Show back in the 1950's. The way Ford said it was 'a long-tailed
cat in a room full of rocking chairs'. I also liked the one about the
black cat in the coal cellar at midnight. (What year did "Sixteen
Tons" come out?)
Geeze, am I ever feeling ancient!
"...Another day older and deeper in debt..."
It made No. 11 on the top 100 in 1955, although according to the site
listed below, it was written in 1947. I can still remember listening
to it on the AM radio while riding in my dad's '49 Ford. Yikes!
http://www.webfitz.com/lyrics/Tbl1955.html
Thank you, John.
Wow, does that top 100 list bring back memories. I was only 8
years old in 1955, but I was crazy about the Four Aces verion of
"Love Is A Many Splendored Thing" It's a beautiful version of the
song that I like to this day. (I have the 45 my father bought.)
That list is a look at the birth of rock 'n roll with:
9. Rock Around the Clock by Bill Haley & the Comets
25. Maybellene by Chuck Berry
26. Only You by the Platters
45. It's A Sin To Tell A Lie by Somethin' Smith & The Redheads
50. Earth Angel by the Penguins
92. Razzle Dazzle by Bill Haley & the Comets
And, of course, a bunch of rip-offs by people like Pat Boone,
The McGuire Sisters, Gale Storm (that's "My Little Margie",
for Chissake!) and the Crewcuts. Every version by the original
black artists has always turned out to be better.
Ick! Pat Boone! Yep, I remember most of those songs very well. I
believe that it was 1954 that I first heard the term "Rock and Roll"
applied to the music. In New York we had a radio DJ named Alan Freed
who popularized it. I also remember all of the lectures that my
brother and I got about how the music was 'immoral', how it led to
juvenile delinquency, etc, etc. So of course we listened to it every
chance that we got. :-)
--
John Hachmann, aa #1782
- Question authority. Now more than ever. -
.
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| User: "Budikka" |
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| Title: Re: Rama, them Hindu ape's \ A Budikka Gap. |
21 Nov 2003 09:24:45 PM |
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Michelle Malkin <hypatiab7@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<0klorvckqeqi10o2f5mjvebrni6k3fkl4n@4ax.com>...
I haven't heard that long-tailed cat line since the old Tennesse Ernie
Ford Show back in the 1950's. The way Ford said it was 'a long-tailed
cat in a room full of rocking chairs'. I also liked the one about the
black cat in the coal cellar at midnight. (What year did "Sixteen
Tons" come out?)
Geeze, am I ever feeling ancient!
Mickey that was in the charts in 1955. I find it hard to believe you
actually *remember* that. Surely it's more likely you remember it
from the Tom Hanks movie "Joe Versus The Volcano" from 1990?!
B.
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| User: "Jim Hutton" |
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| Title: Re: Rama, them Hindu ape's \ A Budikka Gap. |
11 Nov 2003 09:10:36 AM |
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"Linda" <linda_j_d@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:1068550948.180287@kangaroo.ozonline.com.au...
14 million!?
You know the parabolic curve of inaccuracy for C14 dating is dramatic over
1000 years , its even inaccurate 700 years let alone 14 million.
your thoughts?
You must be kidding.
No one would trust C14 dating for an object that is 14 million years old.
However, there are many other isotopes that can be used.
Otoh, for objects that are 1000 yrs old, C14 dating is highly accurate.
I suspect Linda is trying to sell pieces of teh Shroud of Turin on Ebay and
wants to discredit C14 dating. :-)
JH aa#1696
.
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| User: "Alice Billingham" |
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| Title: Re: Rama, them Hindu ape's \ A Budikka Gap. |
11 Nov 2003 01:09:43 PM |
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"Jim Hutton" <atheist1696@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:boqu59$74a$1@nntp.msstate.edu...
"Linda" <linda_j_d@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:1068550948.180287@kangaroo.ozonline.com.au...
14 million!?
You know the parabolic curve of inaccuracy for C14 dating is dramatic
over
1000 years , its even inaccurate 700 years let alone 14 million.
your thoughts?
You must be kidding.
No one would trust C14 dating for an object that is 14 million years old.
However, there are many other isotopes that can be used.
Otoh, for objects that are 1000 yrs old, C14 dating is highly accurate.
I suspect Linda is trying to sell pieces of teh Shroud of Turin on Ebay
and
wants to discredit C14 dating. :-)
JH aa#1696
================
See my other post. Linda is another Jehovah's Witness like Jabriol. The
Watchtower Publishing House they belong to teaches them this. I saw it
myself in their literature. They are not allowed to believe in anything but
a magical, fantastical, supernatural creation by the WTS god they call
Jehovah.
Alice
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| User: "Tedd" |
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| Title: Re: Rama, them Hindu ape's \ A Budikka Gap. |
11 Nov 2003 06:29:02 AM |
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removed alt.JW
please remove all but the groups involved if replying.
in sci.anthropology.paleo, a response to what "Linda" wrote:
14 million!?
You know the parabolic curve of inaccuracy for C14 dating is dramatic over
1000 years , its even inaccurate 700 years let alone 14 million.
your thoughts?
linda,
i'm not sure where you are pulling your information on C-14 dating from but it
is highly inaccurate. C-14 dating is accurate for dates going back as far at
40-50,000 years. it is in fact quite accurate for dates of 15,000 and younger.
at 700 years the technique can give you accuracy of within 2-3 years. C-14
dating _does not_ date anything 14 million years old and isnt even attempted on
anything over 60,000 years.
secondly, where did you get the impression that c-14 dating was being used?
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| User: "Budikka" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS: Rama, them Hindu ape's \ A Budikka Gap. |
16 Nov 2003 11:18:40 PM |
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(JaBrIoL) wrote in message news:<d222de3e.0311101134.35e1766e@posting.google.com>.
Senor Santana, in the flimsy and absurdly inappropriate disguise of
the Archangel Gabriel, continues to post inanely out-of-date, insanely
out-of-context and pathetically irrelevant material pretending it is
somehow a "colossal hole" in the Theory of Evolution. I have soundly
refuted every single thing he has posted that I have become aware of.
He is too cowardly and has too little faith in this god he worships to
directly and formally debate me. Instead, he secretes these articles
away in corners of Usenet and when I find them and refute them, he
quickly loses his bravado and quietly abandons the thread, sneaking
off elsewhere to post another lie. Like a dirty little dog doing his
business in hidden corners of the house, Antonio is stinking up the
Internet with his putrid lies.
I currently have over two-dozen threads open, where I have posted
material only to find that he hasn't the wherewithal to respond, and I
have left him with well over a dozen unanswered questions that follow
him around the Internet like a bad smell.
He has yet to post a **LIST** of these so-called holes. Until and
unless he can do so, he has nothing to offer but hot air and bluster.
About 14 million years ago, there was Rama or Ramapithecus-Rama's ape
(Rama was a mythical prince of India). Fossils of it were found in
India about a century ago. From these fossils was constructed an
apelike creature, upright, on two limbs. Of it Origins stated: "As far
as one can say at the moment, it is the first representative of the
human family."
Ramapithecus was identified as a *possible* hominid by David Pilbeam,
because of its teeth. Other scientists disagreed. It was Pilbeam
himself - pursuing the truth - who revised his assessment upon finding
further evidence. This is the
way science works.
Unfortunately, Senor Santana has no understanding whatsoever of the
scientific method. Instead, he mistakes brash articles in the popular
press for actual scientific work, and thinks creationist letters
published as a joke by _New Scientist_ magazine (Antonio's real Bible)
are the same a peer-reviewed papers published in science journals.
Thus he takes a completely dead issue, something that has had no
currency in thirty years - that of Ramapithecus' status vis-a-vis
human evolution - and tries to resurrect it in 2003.
I got news for you, Antonio - there's no such thing as resurrection!
It's a dead issue. Deal with it. Find something that actually has
currency or give up this hopeless, ill-fated and purposeless pursuit
of yours. That freight train is coming at you and it ain't gonna
stop.
What was the fossil evidence for this conclusion? The same
publication remarked:
Notice that he here refers to "the same publication" without having
given a specific reference to the article in the first place. Then he
quotes the New York times without giving a reference to that either!
This is the standard level of stupidity Antonio operates at. The
reason he doesn't give references is that if he did, we would be able
to look them up and show what a colossal liar Santana the Sick-o is.
[Rest of out-of-date trash snipped]
However, that is no longer the case. Recent and more complete fossil
finds revealed that Ramapithecus closely resembled the present-day ape
family.
Yes, and so do humans! Ramapithecus was identified as a relative of
the orang-utan three decades ago! But what Antonio, in his childlike
ignorance fails to grasp is how blade-thin close we are to the apes.
Humans are more closely related to the chimpanzee than it is to the
other great apes, but all of us are extremely closely related. It
isn't possible to explain this with fairy tales of creation, but it is
compeltely unsurprising that an orang ancestor was initially thought
to be part of the pathway to humanity.
So I have to ask Senor Santana: since Ramapithecus was dismissed from
human ancestry three-decades ago, not by a creationist, but by a
scientist, how does this constitute even a "gap", much less a
"colossal hole" in the theory of evolution in 2003?
And if you have absolute faith that the scientist who dismissed
ramapithecus from human ancestry knows what he was doing, what
criteria do you use to determine that all other scientists have no
idea what they are doing when it comes to amassing the remaining reams
of evidence for evolution?
Antonio loves to deal with these out-of-date articles because he has
absolutely no scientific evidence to fight evolution with, and he
knows how hard it is for others to actually look up non-referenced or
poorly referenced or ancient material and expose his lies.
The real problems for him, however, are these:
1. He cannot deal with the overwhelming mass of current evidence in
favor of evolution.
2. He cannot point to a scientifically established alternative to the
Theory of Evolution.
3. He cannot point to even one peer-reviewed science paper that
refutes evolution
What he needs to do before he embarrasses himself further and
publishes more lies that I will completely expose, is go back and fix
up some of the colossal holes in his posted material from as far back
as August, where I have responded to his material and he has run away
from it. Where I have tirelessly and repeatedly answered all of his
questions and he has answered none of mine.
What he needs to do is start by answering these. I've made them as
simple as possible. All but one are simple "True or false" answers:
1. Antonio started a thread in alt.religion.jehovahs-witn on Sept 21
this year in which he stated: "On the other hand, if the Genesis
creation account is factual, then the fossil record would not show one
type of life turning into another. It would reflect the Genesis
statement that each different type of living thing would reproduce
only "according to its kind." (Genesis 1:11, 12, 21, 24, 25) Also, if
living things came into being by an act of creation, there would be no
partial, unfinished bones or organs in the fossil record. All fossils
would be complete and highly complex, as living things are today."
(http://tinyurl.com/u62b)
That thread was titled "TOBS: The Fossil record support's Genesis".
Posting such an article is an open admission that the author is, in
fact, a creationist. True or false?
2. Regardless of what it is classed as and regardless of whether it
was or was not in the evolutionary line to birds, the archaeopteryx
had pretty much a fifty-fifty mix of reptile/dino and bird features
and therefore represented an example of a potential intermediate
stage. True or false?
3. The okapi, an animal alive and well today, is pretty much what a
transitional giraffe would have looked like. True or false?
4. http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html summarises
discoveries pertaining to transitional fossils and contains over 70
references, many of which are to papers published in peer-reviewed
science journals. True or false?
5. Something akin to a mouse could reasonably change 300 genes over 60
million years to become either human or a modern mouse. True or
false?
6. It is possible to clearly and scientifically define the Biblical
"kind" as used in the Noah's ark story in Genesis. True or false?
7. There is a mechanism in genetics or biochemistry which prevents one
"kind" of organism varying into another "kind". True or false?
8. Evolutionists hold that modern birds evolved from modern reptiles.
True or false?
9. Creationist letters published as a joke in a science publication
are of the same standing as peer-reviewed papers published in
recognized science journals. True or false?
10. There has been at least one peer-reviewed science paper published
in a recognized, refereed science journal that calls the Theory of
Evolution into serious question. True or false?
11. There has been at least one peer-reviewed science paper published
in a recognized, refereed science journal that establishes a better
theory to explain the distribution and variety of life on Earth today
than the Theory of Evolution. True or false?
12. There has been posted, in a thread somewhere in these news
groups, a supported and referenced *list* of the colossal holes in the
Theory of Evolution. True or false?
13. It is hypocritical to demand peer-reviewed published evidence
from others in refutation of non-existent material favoring your own
arguments. True or false?
The next question is a little more difficult. It's multiple choice.
14. The match between human DNA and banana DNA is:
A. 95%
B. 75%
C. 60%
D. Greater than 50%
E. 50%
Please *support* your answer with at least one competent and
intelligent reference that does not refer to a non-existent article in
_New Scientist_, is not a throw-away quotation, and is not merely a
headline from an article that has nothing otherwise to do with the
topic.
15. References to long-dead dead topics such as Piltdown "man",
Nebraska "man", and Ramapithecus as a human ancestor are irrelevant to
the current state of the Theory of Evolution because no one but
creationists ever raises them any more. True or false?
16. Certain creationists-in-denial will snip this entire post because
they cannot even handle a series of simple mutliple-choice questions
without getting upset. True or false?
Budikka
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| User: "JaBrIoL" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS: Rama, them Hindu ape's \ A Budikka Gap. |
17 Nov 2003 06:02:58 AM |
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(Budikka) wrote in message news:<e1e30450.0311162118.6c307f5a@posting.google.com>...
Jabriol@excite.com (JaBrIoL) wrote in message news:<d222de3e.0311101134.35e1766e@posting.google.com>.
Senor Santana, in the
*********************S**********N***********I************************P******
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| User: "Budikka" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS: Rama, them Hindu ape's \ A Budikka Gap. |
17 Nov 2003 05:16:16 PM |
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(JaBrIoL) wrote in message news:<d222de3e.0311170402.50418ec7@posting.google.com>...
What a terrified child you are. You can't even ignore it, can you?
Do you really believe that if you come in here and snip it it will
make the bad person go away? You're as wrong in this as you were in
everything else you've ever undertaken. I will not go away until I
see you burn in hell. The freight train's a-comin', and meanwhile the
unanswered questions that you run screaming from are piling up like a
dam wall ready to burst on your sorry, worthless, useless, hopeless,
sorry *****....
Budikka
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| User: "JaBrIoL" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS: Rama, them Hindu ape's \ A Budikka Gap. |
18 Nov 2003 06:15:54 AM |
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(Budikka) wrote in message news:<e1e30450.0311171516.1e9a3607@posting.google.com>...
Jabriol@excite.com (JaBrIoL) wrote in message news:<d222de3e.0311170402.50418ec7@posting.google.com>...
What a terrified child you are. You can't even ignore it, can you?
Do you really believe that if you come in here and snip it it will
make the bad person go away?
yeah watch
.......................snip-------------------------------------------------------
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| User: "~* Yippy *~" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS: Rama, them Hindu ape's \ A Budikka Gap. |
18 Nov 2003 04:32:48 PM |
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"JaBrIoL" <Jabriol@excite.com> wrote in message
news:d222de3e.0311180415.1086b774@posting.google.com...
yeah watch
.......................snip--------------------------------------------------
-----
==================
Holy Crow!!!! Jabbers is really getting "off" on this thread..... LOL!!!!
What a masochist he is.
--
MiKrobez......
(Jabriol) should be more careful in the way he presents
himself. Some people here might start pulling out all those
JW quotes about "knowing the tree by its fruit" (Credit to Campbell)
====================================================><>
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| User: "Budikka" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS: Rama, them Hindu ape's \ A Budikka Gap. |
19 Nov 2003 09:22:59 PM |
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(JaBrIoL) wrote in message news:<d222de3e.0311180415.1086b774@posting.google.com>...
yeah watch
.......................snip-------------------------------------------------------
Antonio, Antonio, as usual, you're completely wrong - again. And the
questions will haunt you until you rot in your grave wondering what
happened to salvation.
I've tried to show you the way to salvation and like a limp Peter at
the crucifixion, you failed to stand up for the truth. You have
turned your back on it. Like a sheep, you have gone astray.
Here are the questions, Antonio - please try to answer some before
that freight train gets here, and before the entire world becomes
aware of what a cowardly hypocrite you are:
1. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2536501.stm
reveals that "...about 80% of genes in mice and men are like for like.
But if one considers just the different classes of genes - mice have
more genes involved in reproduction and smell, for example - then the
similarity rises to 99%." So by this argument, we differ only 1% from
mice. What was the
purpose in that design choice?
2. It turns out that we have only 300 genes that mice do not and they
have only 300 that we do not. Why is that, if we were *designed* for
such different purposes?
According to creationists, the average gene has 100,000 base pairs.
Times 300 means that we have accumulated a *maximum* of 30 million
base pair differences since we split from our common ancestor with
mice - they accumulated their 300 gene changes and we accumulated
ours. These genes were very likely the same 300 that simply mutated
into fulfilling other functions over time.
Now this is assuming the absolute worst case: that every single base
pair in every one of those 300 genes had to change in order for the
mouse ancestor to become human. Clearly this is an extreme, but I
will stay with it in order to give the creationist every advantage.
They desperately need it.
There were creatures not dissimilar to mice running around at least 60
million years ago. If we rough this out, we have to conclude that we
(and mice, too) have added or mutated a base pair difference from our
common mouse ancestor once every two years since then. What was the
design purpose in that? So that mouse ancestors could also evolve
into humans?
3. Why was it that the designer not only designed DNA functionality in
us that is so amazingly similar to that in chimpanzees, he also
designed errors that are the same in us and chimps?
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/molgen/
4. Why did the designer create an organism which had pretty much a
fifty-fifty mix of reptile/dino and bird features which could then be
seen later as representive of an example of a potential intermediate
life form. Was he trying to sow confusion?
5. What was the designer's purpose in creating the okapi, an animal
that is pretty much what a transitional giraffe would look like?
Again, was he trying to sow confusion?
6. Why do we find so many other examples of transitional forms in the
fossil record (as described at
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html - a summary of
discoveries pertaining to transitional fossils, containing over 70
references, many of which are to papers published in peer-reviewed
science journals.
7. What is the scientific definition of "kind" as used in the Noahic
flood story in the Biblical book of Genesis?
8. Please define the precise mechanism which sets the limit on
variation and prevents an organism from evolving into a different
"kind". What is the limit? What mechanism enforces it, and how does
it work?
This is just a few of them. I don't want to overwhelm you. I know
life is difficult for you, being completely wrong all the time. Start
with these, and as you get up to speed, denying, spreading strawmen
out to dry, sowing confusion with your antics and snipping, we can add
more.
Budikka
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| User: "Frankie DuMorro" |
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| Title: Re: Rama, them Hindu ape's \ A Budikka Gap. |
12 Nov 2003 11:47:49 PM |
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From Jabriol, another Jehovah's Witness infesting Usenet:
Read how he GLOATS over, and describes the death of the young man he PUSHED
off the edge. You will also note that all the other JWs here are FOR
Jabriol - since they are not AGAINST him (according to WT teachings). He
was very proud of himself - since the young man was NOT interested in his
WTS spiel.
As anyone can see all headers are available for these evil JW post in the
archive.
=========
Path:
e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com!cyclone-atl1!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com!cyclone
-sjo1.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!cyclone.bc.net!newsfeed.stanford.edu
!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail
From: (Jabriol)
Newsgroups:
alt.religion.jehovahs-witn,alt.atheism,alt.paranet.science,alt.society.gener
ation-x,alt.support.depression
Subject: suicide as an option <obvious spoiler>.. a Chris Dubose thread.
Date: 3 Sep 2001 04:52:23 -0700
Organization: http://groups.google.com/
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <2928e70.0109030352.513ba705@posting.google.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.57.168.186
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: posting.google.com 999517943 32349 127.0.0.1 (3 Sep 2001 11:52:23
GMT)
X-Complaints-To:
NNTP-Posting-Date: 3 Sep 2001 11:52:23 GMT
Xref: e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com alt.religion.jehovahs-witn:150895
alt.atheism:1921224 alt.paranet.science:2782 alt.society.generation-x:18012
alt.support.depression:732876
----- Original Message -----
From: Jabriol
Newsgroups:
alt.religion.jehovahs-witn,alt.atheism,alt.paranet.science,alt.society.gener
ation-x,alt.support.depression
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 5:52 AM
Subject: suicide as an option <obvious spoiler>.. a Chris Dubose thread.
On 11-Aug-2001, (Stewart/sna) wrote:
katatreena@aol.com (cattareena) wrote:
I've always considered it as an option. I was brought up that way.
You were brought up that way?? What does that mean??
It means He learned Evolution and natural selection well. He knows that if
he is not productive and have Useful genes, mama Natural selection will
force him to lay his head on a railroad track, just like Truthseeker did.
And
SPLIT.. off with his cranium, bouncing around the tracks for a few meters as
his eyball pop out with force, and his eadrum goes BOOM!, due to the rapid
baromaetric preasure and sheer force, teath leaving the skull faster than a
..45 bullet bouncing off of stainless steel walls.. with a headache that even
Motrin can not cure..
reading his post it seem that he passed Natural selection test..
--
A moderated list for intelligent conversation.... No idiots Allowed!!!...
ThirdMil-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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| User: "Rv Cloim" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS: Rama, them Hindu ape's \ A Budikka Gap. |
10 Nov 2003 08:20:11 PM |
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On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:34:15 -0800, JaBrIoL wrote:
About 14 million years ago, there was Rama or Ramapithecus-Rama's ape
(Rama was a mythical prince of India).
<snip>
However, that is no longer the case. Recent and more complete fossil
finds revealed that Ramapithecus closely resembled the present-day ape
family. So New Scientist now declares: "Ramapithecus cannot have been
the first member of the human line."
???
Wouldn't the 'first member of the human line' also closely resemble the
'present-day ape family' ?
Aren't humans *part of* the 'present-day ape family'?
As far as the 'artistic renderings' are concerned: they are, always have
been, and always will be *artistic. The more data available, the more
precise the model will be.
<sarcasm>
Isn't it odd that these scientist fellows are always revising their models
when new evidence comes to light?
</sarcasm>
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| User: "JaBrIoL" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS: Rama, them Hindu ape's \ A Budikka Gap. |
11 Nov 2003 06:02:44 AM |
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Rv Cloim <cloim@propylaea.tor.org> wrote in message news:<pan.2003.11.11.02.22.27.480856@propylaea.tor.org>...
On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:34:15 -0800, JaBrIoL wrote:
About 14 million years ago, there was Rama or Ramapithecus-Rama's ape
(Rama was a mythical prince of India).
<snip>
However, that is no longer the case. Recent and more complete fossil
finds revealed that Ramapithecus closely resembled the present-day ape
family. So New Scientist now declares: "Ramapithecus cannot have been
the first member of the human line."
???
Wouldn't the 'first member of the human line' also closely resemble the
'present-day ape family' ?
by today defintion all men are apes.. promates and bananas.. or half bananas anyway.
Aren't humans *part of* the 'present-day ape family'?
see above..
As far as the 'artistic renderings' are concerned: they are, always have
been, and always will be *artistic. The more data available, the more
precise the model will be.
<sarcasm>
Isn't it odd that these scientist fellows are always revising their models
when new evidence comes to light?
</sarcasm>
yeah.. we know.. we know..
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