| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Rekur Van" |
| Date: |
27 Sep 2006 06:13:29 AM |
| Object: |
TOBS: Science and Religion: Limits? |
No end is in sight in our quest for answers about the infinite
universe, space, and time. Biologist Lewis Thomas noted: “There will be
no end to this process, being the insatiably curious species that we
are, exploring, looking around and trying to understand things. We’re
not ever going to get it solved. I can’t imagine any terminal point
where everyone will breathe a sigh and will say, ‘Now we understand the
whole thing.’ It’s going to remain beyond us.”
Similarly, when it comes to religious truth, the reach is boundless. One
of the Bible writers, Paul, stated: “Now we see only puzzling
reflections in a mirror . . . My knowledge now is
partial.”—1 Corinthians 13:12, The New English Bible.
Partial knowledge concerning both scientific and religious questions,
however, does not prevent us from reaching sound conclusions based on
the facts we have. We don’t need a detailed knowledge of the origin of
the sun in order to be absolutely sure that it is going to rise tomorrow.
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| User: "Warren McLaughlin" |
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| Title: Re: JW on Science and Religion |
29 Sep 2006 03:44:16 PM |
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"Rekur Van" <Diebuster@gun.org> wrote in message
news:nR5Tg.18411$8O1.16625@trnddc04...
.....is Antonio L Santana aka JABRIOL,the kiddy porn obsessed, perverted nym
shifting Jehovahs Witness from ARJW, slandering, harassing and net-stalking
the Gully family is:
Antonio L. (and Norma) Santana
1064 Everett Street
Camden, NJ (856) 968-0004
Members of the Spanish Speaking congragation of Jehovahs Witnesses
in Camden NJ.
Jabriol/Antonio L Santana hates everyone because he was
born so disadvantaged and lives in one of the worst slums on the Eastern
Seaboard. He blames all his problems including family, financial and health
on his victims in TN so slanders them in his pitiful attempt to bring them
down to his
gutter level.
Does Antonio aka jabriol lie?
Budikka666" <budikka1@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1155590460.025021.256620@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
More Jabriol a.k.a BullDozer (100s of nyms) is
Antonio L Santana (Jehovahs Witness from ARJW)
More Antonio embarrassment can be seen at:
(Antonio L Santana a.k.a Jabriol Lies Series #1
http://tinyurl.com/2w7u9
Jabriol Lies Series #2
http://tinyurl.com/2l9rl
Jabriol Lies Series #3
http://tinyurl.com/27cvs
Jabriol Lies Series #4
http://tinyurl.com/33zrt
Jabriol Lies Series #5
http://tinyurl.com/2t944
Jabriol Lies Series #6
http://tinyurl.com/3776p
Jabriol Lies Series #7
http://tinyurl.com/82da6
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| User: "Henry Mankinna" |
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| Title: Re: JW on Science and Religion and MURDER! |
29 Sep 2006 12:04:23 PM |
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"Rekur Van" <Diebuster@gun.org> wrote in message
news:nR5Tg.18411$8O1.16625@trnddc04...
....is the HOMOCIDAL netstalking Jehovahs Witness Antonio L Santana aka
jabriol and 100s of other nyms to hide behind from the Camden NJ Police. He
attends the Spanish speaking congragation of Jehovahs Witnesses in Camden
NJ.
Call the Police and tell them your victim has your messages archived where
you tried to have her murdered. Here's one of your messages Antonio. You
were even helped by another vicious Jehovahs Witness to find your victim to
better terrorize the old couple. You know it's true that's why you do
nothing about their accusations you want them murdered. What a fine
"WITNESS" you and your JW friend give those on usenet.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Zhavriol" aka Jabriol <zodriol@gmail.com>
Antonio L Santana/Camden NJ cong of Jehovah's Witnesses.
Subject: Carol Adamo Gulley -she is tired of living, please
help her
(This sounds like solicitation to murder someone!)
Maybe they are people out there who wants you to rejoined your loved
departed ones.
Let me help them find you so they can help you out:
Carolyn Adamo Gulley XXXX XXXX XXXXX
< XXXXXXX XXXX XXXXXXXX
(victim's phone #, address, maps to her home supplied by Mr. Santana
snipped).
Mr. Antonio L Santana then opines someone break in her home in the middle
of the night and slit her throat or kill her by suffocation.
Give the evidence to your Sheriff Dept Carol, they are waiting for your
call.
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| User: "Henry Mankinna" |
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| Title: Re: JW on Science and Religion |
28 Sep 2006 08:11:37 PM |
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"Rekur Van" aka jabriol aka Antonio Santana<Diebuster@gun.org> wrote in
message news:Oi_Sg.18258$8O1.1665@trnddc04...
The Jehovah's Witness persecuting, impersonating and slandering "victim"
Carol is or was posting under:
Charlië <inva...@invalid.invalid>
"Hayseed Henry" <nob...@displace.net>
"Jah Himself" <free...@usenets.net>
"Koi-Lo" <inva...@invalid.invalid>
"Mindy Brown" <free...@usenets.net>
"Jehovah's Voice" <free...@usenets.net>
"Mr. Henchelman" <free...@usenets.net>
"Randy X." <free...@usenets.net>
"Randy A." <free...@usenets.net>
"Robunda S. Wiska" <inva...@Invalid.Invalid>
"Randy Z." <free...@usenets.net>
"Randy Q." <free...@usenets.net>
"Randy V." <free...@usenets.net>
"Randy K." <free...@usenets.net>
"Randy M." <free...@usenets.net>
"Randy C." <free...@usenets.net>
"Randy B." <free...@usenets.net>
"Randy R." <free...@usenets.net>
"Ann Landers" <free...@usenets.net>
"SlammerDeSlanderers" <free...@usenets.net>
"Kidiva DeKevo" <kidiva...@kevlo.org>
"SlammerDunker" <free...@usenets.net>
"Kavorkian's Wife" <free...@usenets.net>
"Lario" <free...@usenets.net>
"Distant Belles" <free...@usenets.net>
"H.B. Huntington Sr." <n...@none.none>
"Jehovah Speaks" and 100s more.
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| User: "Ira Y. Palmer" |
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| Title: Re: JW on Science and Religion |
29 Sep 2006 01:25:42 AM |
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"Tekkamen" aka JABRIOL aka Antonio L Santana <javriol@gmail.com> wrote in
message news:1159450213.194986.181120@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Here's the proof you want your victim Carol DEAD Antonio!
----- Original Message --- one of many similar messages:
From: "Jabriol" <jabriol1@excite.com> Antonio L Santana
news:9e9431eb.0408131047.227f1e7@posting.google.com
Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 2:45 AM message inciting murder:
youre doomed.. you know it.
Help put this woman out of her misery (i.e. kill her)
(*Mr Santana then provides his victim's name, address and phone number to
anyone interested in his offer)
Call the FBI and the Police Antonio. Do it now and explain your endless
harassment, stalking, slander, threats, posting your victims PI on Usenet
and more.
==============
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| User: "Rekur Van" |
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| Title: Re: JW on Science and Religion |
29 Sep 2006 04:39:06 AM |
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Ira Y. Palmer wrote:
"Tekkamen" aka JABRIOL aka Antonio L Santana <javriol@gmail.com> wrote in
message news:1159450213.194986.181120@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Here's the proof you want your victim Carol DEAD Antonio!
----- Original Message --- one of many similar messages:
From: "Jabriol" <jabriol1@excite.com> Antonio L Santana
news:9e9431eb.0408131047.227f1e7@posting.google.com
Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 2:45 AM message inciting murder:
youre doomed.. you know it.
Help put this woman out of her misery (i.e. kill her)
Give the evidence to your Sheriff Dept Carol, they are waiting for your
call.
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| User: "Warren McLaughlin" |
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| Title: Re: JW on Science and Religion - JABRIOL wants victim dead! |
29 Sep 2006 03:46:11 PM |
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"Rekur Van" <Diebuster@gun.org> wrote in message
news:_Q5Tg.18410$8O1.11703@trnddc04...
is Antonio L Santana aka JABRIOL, the obsessed, sexually perverted nym
shifting Jehovahs Witness above, slandering, harassing and net-stalking the
Gully family is:
Antonio L. (and Norma) Santana
1064 Everett Street
Camden, NJ (856) 968-0004
Members of the Spanish Speaking congragation of Jehovahs Witnesses
in Camden NJ.
Jabriol/Antonio L Santana hates everyone because he was
born so disadvantaged and lives in one of the worst slums on the Eastern
Seaboard. He blames all his problems, both family, financial and health on
his victims in TN so slanders them in his pitiful attempt to bring them down
to his
gutter level.
Does Antonio aka jabriol lie?
Budikka666" <budikka1@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1155590460.025021.256620@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
More Jabriol a.k.a BullDozer (100s of nyms) is
Antonio L Santana (Jehovahs Witness from ARJW)
More Antonio embarrassment can be seen at:
(Antonio L Santana a.k.a Jabriol Lies Series #1
http://tinyurl.com/2w7u9
Jabriol Lies Series #2
http://tinyurl.com/2l9rl
Jabriol Lies Series #3
http://tinyurl.com/27cvs
Jabriol Lies Series #4
http://tinyurl.com/33zrt
Jabriol Lies Series #5
http://tinyurl.com/2t944
Jabriol Lies Series #6
http://tinyurl.com/3776p
Jabriol Lies Series #7
http://tinyurl.com/82da6
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| User: "Charlie Brown" |
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| Title: Re: JW on Science and Religion |
28 Sep 2006 01:00:13 PM |
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"Tekkamen" is Antonio L Santana aka jabriol, known net stalker and sociopath
<javriol@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159450213.194986.181120@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
SNIIIIPPPPPPPP!
The obsessed, sexually perverted nym shifting Jehovahs Witness above,
slandering, harassing and net-stalking the Gully family is:
Antonio L. (and Norma) Santana
1064 Everett Street
Camden, NJ (856) 968-0004
Members of the Spanish Speaking congragation of Jehovahs Witnesses
in Camden NJ.
Does Antonio aka jabriol lie?
Budikka666" <budikka1@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1155590460.025021.256620@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
More Jabriol a.k.a "ReelMcKoi" a.k.a. BullDozer (100s of nyms) is
Antonio L Santana (Jehovahs Witness from ARJW)
<ReelMckoi@mailinator.com> Embarrassment can be seen at:
(Antonio L Santana a.k.a Jabriol Lies Series #1
http://tinyurl.com/2w7u9
Jabriol Lies Series #2
http://tinyurl.com/2l9rl
Jabriol Lies Series #3
http://tinyurl.com/27cvs
Jabriol Lies Series #4
http://tinyurl.com/33zrt
Jabriol Lies Series #5
http://tinyurl.com/2t944
Jabriol Lies Series #6
http://tinyurl.com/3776p
Jabriol Lies Series #7
http://tinyurl.com/82da6
Jabriol Misleading Quotes series #1
http://tinyurl.com/b3n6s
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: JW on Science and Religion |
27 Sep 2006 06:40:51 PM |
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On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 11:26:49 GMT, Rekur Van <Diebuster@gun.org> wrote:
- Refer: <ZdtSg.11800$Vk4.3206@trnddc01>
Jehovah’s Witnesses invite open-minded people, both scientific and
religious, to share in a sincere quest for truth in both realms. In
their congregations the Witnesses nurture a healthy respect for science
:
What a truly astounding and bald-faced outright LIE!!!
You morons commit deliberate criminal fraud when talking about
science.
Go away, and take your vile deceptions with you.
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| User: "Tekkamen" |
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| Title: Re: JW on Science and Religion |
28 Sep 2006 07:52:36 AM |
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Michael Gray wrote:
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 11:26:49 GMT, Rekur Van <Diebuster@gun.org> wrote:
- Refer: <ZdtSg.11800$Vk4.3206@trnddc01>
Jehovah's Witnesses invite open-minded people, both scientific and
religious, to share in a sincere quest for truth in both realms. In
their congregations the Witnesses nurture a healthy respect for science
:
What a truly astounding and bald-faced outright LIE!!!
You morons commit deliberate criminal fraud when talking about
science.
Go away, and take your vile deceptions with you.
Evidence?
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| User: "Bryan Olson" |
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| Title: Re: JW on Science and Religion |
27 Sep 2006 10:00:01 AM |
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Rekur Van wrote:
Jehovah’s Witnesses invite open-minded people, both scientific and
religious, to share in a sincere quest for truth in both realms.
Not the ones that come to my door.
[Actually it's been a while; do they still do that?]
In
their congregations the Witnesses nurture a healthy respect for science
and its proven findings as well as a profound belief that religious
truth can be found only in the Bible, which forthrightly and with
abundant evidence declares itself to be the Word of God.
[...]
Jehovah’s Witnesses have been satisfied with reasonable,
Bible-based answers to such questions as, Why are we here? Where are we
going?
And Jehovah’s Witnesses' answer was that we're all going to be
judged when their deity returns in 1914. When that didn't happen,
they changed it to 1918 or 1925, then 1941, 1954 and 1975. I think
after that they decided to stop making such predictions.
Oh: if you don't want this kind of reply, consider trimming your
"Newsgroups:" header down to the appropriate groups.
--
--Bryan
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| User: "=?Windows-1252?B?fiBT5GJs6yB+?=" |
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| Title: Re: JW on Science and Religion |
27 Sep 2006 10:28:28 AM |
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"Bryan Olson" <fakeaddress@nowhere.org> wrote in message
news:RlwSg.9111$6S3.2666@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
Rekur Van wrote:
Jehovah’s Witnesses invite open-minded people, both scientific and
religious, to share in a sincere quest for truth in both realms.
Not the ones that come to my door.
[Actually it's been a while; do they still do that?]
Yes. It's a requirement if they don't want to be disfellowshipped and
shunned like lepers. They are not compensated for their time and must give
all money from book and rag sales to their elders to be turned over to the
WTS Book Publishing and Real Estate Purchasing Society in NYC. The WTS
promises them eternal life in Paradise as a reward. They will not discuss
anything scientific with others as can be seen on these NGs they cross-post
to constantly. When their back is against the wall they resort to personal
attacks on the poster.
In their congregations the Witnesses nurture a healthy respect for
science and its proven findings as well as a profound belief that
religious truth can be found only in the Bible, which forthrightly and
with abundant evidence declares itself to be the Word of God.
[...]
Jehovah’s Witnesses have been satisfied with reasonable, Bible-based
answers to such questions as, Why are we here? Where are we going?
And Jehovah’s Witnesses' answer was that we're all going to be
judged when their deity returns in 1914. When that didn't happen,
they changed it to 1918 or 1925, then 1941, 1954 and 1975. I think
after that they decided to stop making such predictions.
They had to as they were the laughing stock and butt of too many jokes about
their failed predictions that they claimed were "spirit directed."
Oh: if you don't want this kind of reply, consider trimming your
"Newsgroups:" header down to the appropriate groups.
He "sweeps" many NGs to get replies from newbies who aren't aware of who and
what he is........
--
SA....
Our Kingdom Ministry September 2002 (For Britain) p. 8 ***
5 God's Appointed Channel: Bear in mind that our heavenly Father has an
appointed channel of communication, "the faithful and discreet slave."
(Meaning themselves of course - the GB.) That "slave" (the well fed and
prosperous GB) has the responsibility to determine what information (THIS IS
CENSORSHIP!!!) is made available to the household of faith (the JWs they
consider too stupid to know what to read and where), as well as "the proper
time" for it to be dispensed (MORE CENSORSHIP!!!). This spiritual food
(seldom biblical and not from God) is available only through the theocratic
(meaning communistic and totalitarian) organization. We should always look
to God's appointed channel (what the heck is an appointed channel?) for
reliable information (and 100% wrong predictions), not to a network of
Internet users (where the TRUTH may be stumbled upon). — Matt.24:45.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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| User: "Bobby Bryant" |
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| Title: Re: JW on Science and Religion |
28 Sep 2006 02:31:22 AM |
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In article <RlwSg.9111$6S3.2666@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net>,
Bryan Olson <fakeaddress@nowhere.org> writes:
And Jehovah’s Witnesses' answer was that we're all going to be
judged when their deity returns in 1914. When that didn't happen,
they changed it to 1918 or 1925, then 1941, 1954 and 1975. I think
after that they decided to stop making such predictions.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me six times, shame on me.
No! Make that seven!
--
Bobby Bryant
Reno, Nevada
Remove your hat to reply by e-mail.
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| User: "=?iso-8859-1?B?fiBT5GJs6yB+?=" |
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| Title: Re: JW on Science and Religion |
28 Sep 2006 01:53:11 PM |
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"Bobby Bryant" <bdbryant@wherever.ur> wrote in message
news:eTKSg.6172$GR.2102@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
In article <RlwSg.9111$6S3.2666@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net>,
Bryan Olson <fakeaddress@nowhere.org> writes:
And Jehovah's Witnesses' answer was that we're all going to be
judged when their deity returns in 1914. When that didn't happen,
they changed it to 1918 or 1925, then 1941, 1954 and 1975. I think
after that they decided to stop making such predictions.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me six times, shame on me.
No! Make that seven!
It's easy for the WTS to fool their followers over and over and over again
since they are not allowed "independent thinking." No questions may be
asked about what the GB comes up with, claiming "spirit direction." It's
almost considered a mortal sin in the Watchtower cult. They're trained into
believing anything the WTS spoon feeds them.
IW.......
Death threats from Antonio L Santana, a Jehovah's Witness from Camden NJ.
----- Original Message From Antonio L Santana/Jabriol -----
Message-ID: <5fOlf.8557$567.1252@trnddc01>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 151.204.206.54
From: "JABRIOL" Antonio L. Santana/Jehovah's Witness
And it will not stop until she is
dead. Which will be in short order.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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| User: "David Schwartz" |
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| Title: Re: JW on Science and Religion |
27 Sep 2006 03:16:08 PM |
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Rekur Van wrote:
Of course, as with science, damaging falsehoods and practices have
infiltrated religion. Thus, there is true religion and false religion.
That is why many people have left organized, mainstream religion to
become members of the Christian congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses.
They have been disappointed by the unwillingness of their previous
religions to disavow human tradition and myth in favor of discovered or
revealed truth.
How do we tell true religion from false religion? We can't use the
Bible since it's full of obvious factual errors.
Worse, it is filled with moral abominations. Don't you think it God
wrote the Bible and intended it to be man's moral compass, he could
have at least pointed out that slavery was wrong one of the many times
he mentioned slavery?
If there did exist some work that was obviously divinely inspired and
contained verifiable prophecies, it would be easy. We could all just do
what that work said.
However, every religion has equal claim to having a holy work that is
filled with scientific errors and moral abominations. If we got our
moral guidance from the Bible, slavery would still be legal.
DS
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| User: "Ken Kellerman" |
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| Title: Re: Science and Religion: Let the known facts speak-creative day? |
27 Sep 2006 10:14:00 PM |
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<javriol@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159355968.989372.163080@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
You forget to add this one Antonio L Santana? It seems Carol is really Norma
I. Santana, your own wife!!!!!!!!!!!! Your ISP is Verizon.net.
From: Vance Liscomb <Vance_member@newsguy.com>
Subject: Re: For Carolyn Gulley (Correction)
In article <dnf0qs02kqh@drn.newsguy.com>, Vance Liscomb says...
You have the wrong address. He lives with Norma I. Santanta
(born
September
1959) and his address is:
Antonio L. Santana (JABRIOL)
1064 Everett Street
Camden, NJ
(856) 968-0004
His phone number is listed under A. Santana. He was born 1961.
Oddly enough he lives across the street from the West Jersey
Hospital.
http://terraserver-
usa.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=10&Z=18&X=2454&Y=22098&W=1&qs=1064+Eve
rett+Street%7ccamden%
7cnew+jersey%7c&Addr=1064+Everett+St%2c+Camden%2c+NJ+08104&ALon=-
75.1075127&ALat=39.9275305
There are two Kingdom Halls in the area:
1584 S 8th St
Camden, NJ 08104-1469
(856) 365-0065
417 Walnut St
Camden, NJ 08103-2033
(856) 365-4457
Remember, Kingdom Halls are just buildings. There may be more
than one
congregation using the same KH.
I doubt that he is a Jehovah's Witness, so you might want to
ask for Norma
Santana as well when you call.
I called the 856-365-0065 number but it was changed to:
856-964-6712
A recording with a lady's voice with a Spanish accent asked me to leave a
message. This is a home phone - probably that of an elder in a Spanish
congregation. The 1584 S 8th St Kingdom Hall is only a few blocks from
where
Antonio lives.
It's possible that the information that you've been posting about Antonio
has
been wrong all along.
NNTP-Posting-Host: p-282.newsdawg.com
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| User: "Bill M" |
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| Title: Re: Science and Religion: Let the known facts speak-creative day? |
27 Sep 2006 09:52:07 AM |
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<javriol@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159355968.989372.163080@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
In the quest for answers, we need to be guided by sound principles.
Unless we stick to the highest standards of evidence, we can easily be
misled in our search for scientific and religious truth. Realistically,
none of us can begin to evaluate all scientific knowledge and ideas,
which today fill huge libraries. On the other hand, the Bible provides
a manageable compendium of spiritual teachings for our consideration.
The Bible is well supported by known facts.
The known facts are that the Bibles are no more than a collection of ancient
myths, fables
and impossible tales. There is no evidence theyare accurate history or the
words of any gods.
The church claimed origin of the New Testament being as early as 65 AD is
quite apparently a falsification.
According to Tony Busby there are NO legitimate historic writings compiled
between the first and fourth centuries that contain any reference to Jesus
Christ or the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke or John. Many historians have
wondered at such an unaccountable
omission of what were considered the greatest events of church history.
The period was rich in prolific writers like Pliny The Elder, Pliny The
Younger, Philo, Flavious Josephus, Cornelius, Titus, Livious, Porphyry,
Plutarch, Lucious Seneca, Jewenal, Justice of Tiberius, Epictectus, Tacitus,
Suetonius, Cluvious Rufus, Quintas Curtis Rufus and Roman council Publius
Petronius, who lived in the area at the claimed time of the life of Jesus.
Those scribes wrote about early religious beliefs but never mentioned Jesus.
The single mention of Jesus in the prolific writings of Flavious Josephus is
considered by most scholars as a later church forgery.
People think the Bibles are consistent and accurate history. Nothing could
be further from the truth. The Bibles were dramatically different in various
ages.
In a simple comparison of canonical writing over the centuries from shortly
after the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD to the decree of the Council of Trent
in 1546 AD, twenty one books were added and ten were deleted from the
'official' canon.
In that stage of history, before the invention of the printing press, the
transmission of the Bibles was characterized by huge variations in the
readings of the Gospels running into the thousands. The author of the book
'Genuineness and Authenticity of the Gospels', by B. A. Hinsdale felt
compelled to stress that, 'There are 150,000 various readings of the New
Testament manuscripts alone, the majority of which must be corruptions since
there can only be 'one original' for any given passage.
However, concerning knowledge in general, earnest effort is required to
distinguish between fact and speculation, between reality and
deception-in both science and religion. As the Bible writer Paul
advised, we need to reject "the contradictions of the falsely called
'knowledge.'" (1 Timothy 6:20) To reconcile science and the
Bible, we must let the facts speak for themselves, thereby avoiding
conjecture and speculation, and examine how each fact supports and adds
to the other.
For example, when we understand that the Bible uses the term "day"
to represent various periods of time, we see that the account of the
six creative days in Genesis need not conflict with the scientific
conclusion that the age of the earth is about four and a half billion
years. According to the Bible, the earth existed for an unstated period
before the creative days began. (Even if science corrects itself and
suggests a different age for our planet, the statements made in the
Bible still hold true. Instead of contradicting the Bible, science in
this and many other cases actually provides us with voluminous
supplemental information about the physical world, both present and
past.
.
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| User: "Bryan Olson" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS: Science and Religion: Let the known facts speak-creativeday? |
27 Sep 2006 09:20:51 AM |
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wrote:
In the quest for answers, we need to be guided by sound principles.
Unless we stick to the highest standards of evidence, we can easily be
misled in our search for scientific and religious truth. Realistically,
none of us can begin to evaluate all scientific knowledge and ideas,
which today fill huge libraries.
On the other hand, if one want to check out a piece of if, the
real stuff is there. Scientific knowledge includes both what
we know know and how we know it. We live in a consistent natural
world, that works the same for all of us.
On the other hand, the Bible provides
a manageable compendium of spiritual teachings for our consideration.
The Bible is a collection of ancient religious literature.
One cannot really understand it from within the religions that
think it to be more that the product of human efforts.
The Bible is well supported by known facts.
The facts place the various texts of the Bible in their
appropriate historical context. Bible texts are, like any
writing, are the product of people's understanding at the time.
--
--Bryan
.
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| User: "Bobby Bryant" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS: Science and Religion: Let the known facts speak-creative day? |
28 Sep 2006 02:30:08 AM |
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In article <1159355968.989372.163080@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
javriol@gmail.com writes:
In the quest for answers, we need to be guided by sound principles.
Unless we stick to the highest standards of evidence, we can easily
be misled in our search for scientific and religious
truth. Realistically, none of us can begin to evaluate all
scientific knowledge and ideas, which today fill huge libraries. On
the other hand, the Bible provides a manageable compendium of
spiritual teachings for our consideration. The Bible is well
supported by known facts.
It's not even internally consistent.
However, concerning knowledge in general, earnest effort is required to
distinguish between fact and speculation, between reality and
deception-in both science and religion. As the Bible writer Paul
advised, we need to reject "the contradictions of the falsely called
'knowledge.'" (1 Timothy 6:20) To reconcile science and the
Bible, we must let the facts speak for themselves, thereby avoiding
conjecture and speculation, and examine how each fact supports and adds
to the other.
For example, when we understand that the Bible uses the term "day"
to represent various periods of time, we see that the account of the
six creative days in Genesis need not conflict with the scientific
conclusion that the age of the earth is about four and a half billion
years. According to the Bible, the earth existed for an unstated period
before the creative days began. (Even if science corrects itself and
suggests a different age for our planet, the statements made in the
Bible still hold true. Instead of contradicting the Bible, science in
this and many other cases actually provides us with voluminous
supplemental information about the physical world, both present and
past.
IOW, if you take enough liberties with the interpretations, *any* claim
can be "true".
--
Bobby Bryant
Reno, Nevada
Remove your hat to reply by e-mail.
.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS: Science and Religion: Let the known facts speak-creative day? |
27 Sep 2006 09:48:26 AM |
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On 27 Sep 2006 04:19:29 -0700, in alt.atheism , in
<1159355968.989372.163080@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> wrote:
In the quest for answers, we need to be guided by sound principles.
Unless we stick to the highest standards of evidence, we can easily be
misled in our search for scientific and religious truth. Realistically,
none of us can begin to evaluate all scientific knowledge and ideas,
which today fill huge libraries. On the other hand, the Bible provides
a manageable compendium of spiritual teachings for our consideration.
The Bible is well supported by known facts.
However, concerning knowledge in general, earnest effort is required to
distinguish between fact and speculation, between reality and
deception-in both science and religion. As the Bible writer Paul
advised, we need to reject "the contradictions of the falsely called
'knowledge.'" (1 Timothy 6:20) To reconcile science and the
Bible, we must let the facts speak for themselves, thereby avoiding
conjecture and speculation, and examine how each fact supports and adds
to the other.
For example, when we understand that the Bible uses the term "day"
to represent various periods of time, we see that the account of the
six creative days in Genesis need not conflict with the scientific
conclusion that the age of the earth is about four and a half billion
years. According to the Bible, the earth existed for an unstated period
before the creative days began. (Even if science corrects itself and
suggests a different age for our planet, the statements made in the
Bible still hold true. Instead of contradicting the Bible, science in
this and many other cases actually provides us with voluminous
supplemental information about the physical world, both present and
past.
The Bible *need not* conflict with science, particularly when you
really accept that it is not a science manual. But the Bible does not
help us at all when trying to figure out the deep history or natural
actions of the world, particularly when you really accept that the
Bible is not a science manual.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
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| User: "Rekur Van" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS: Science and Religion: Let the known facts speak-creativeday? |
27 Sep 2006 10:41:46 AM |
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Matt Silberstein wrote:
On 27 Sep 2006 04:19:29 -0700, in alt.atheism , in
<1159355968.989372.163080@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> wrote:
In the quest for answers, we need to be guided by sound principles.
Unless we stick to the highest standards of evidence, we can easily be
misled in our search for scientific and religious truth. Realistically,
none of us can begin to evaluate all scientific knowledge and ideas,
which today fill huge libraries. On the other hand, the Bible provides
a manageable compendium of spiritual teachings for our consideration.
The Bible is well supported by known facts.
However, concerning knowledge in general, earnest effort is required to
distinguish between fact and speculation, between reality and
deception-in both science and religion. As the Bible writer Paul
advised, we need to reject "the contradictions of the falsely called
'knowledge.'" (1 Timothy 6:20) To reconcile science and the
Bible, we must let the facts speak for themselves, thereby avoiding
conjecture and speculation, and examine how each fact supports and adds
to the other.
For example, when we understand that the Bible uses the term "day"
to represent various periods of time, we see that the account of the
six creative days in Genesis need not conflict with the scientific
conclusion that the age of the earth is about four and a half billion
years. According to the Bible, the earth existed for an unstated period
before the creative days began. (Even if science corrects itself and
suggests a different age for our planet, the statements made in the
Bible still hold true. Instead of contradicting the Bible, science in
this and many other cases actually provides us with voluminous
supplemental information about the physical world, both present and
past.
The Bible *need not* conflict with science, particularly when you
really accept that it is not a science manual. But the Bible does not
help us at all when trying to figure out the deep history or natural
actions of the world, particularly when you really accept that the
Bible is not a science manual.
Because that is not the purpose of the Bible. No disagreement here.
.
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| User: "Ken Kellerman" |
|
| Title: Re: TOBS: Science and Religion: Let the known facts speak-creative day? |
27 Sep 2006 10:14:22 PM |
|
|
"Rekur Van" <Diebuster@gun.org> wrote in message
news:_YwSg.10183$Wi1.684@trnddc06...
You forget to add this one Antonio L Santana? It seems Carol is really Norma
I. Santana, your own wife!!!!!!!!!!!! Your ISP is Verizon.net.
From: Vance Liscomb <Vance_member@newsguy.com>
Subject: Re: For Carolyn Gulley (Correction)
In article <dnf0qs02kqh@drn.newsguy.com>, Vance Liscomb says...
You have the wrong address. He lives with Norma I. Santanta
(born
September
1959) and his address is:
Antonio L. Santana (JABRIOL)
1064 Everett Street
Camden, NJ
(856) 968-0004
His phone number is listed under A. Santana. He was born 1961.
Oddly enough he lives across the street from the West Jersey
Hospital.
http://terraserver-
usa.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=10&Z=18&X=2454&Y=22098&W=1&qs=1064+Eve
rett+Street%7ccamden%
7cnew+jersey%7c&Addr=1064+Everett+St%2c+Camden%2c+NJ+08104&ALon=-
75.1075127&ALat=39.9275305
There are two Kingdom Halls in the area:
1584 S 8th St
Camden, NJ 08104-1469
(856) 365-0065
417 Walnut St
Camden, NJ 08103-2033
(856) 365-4457
Remember, Kingdom Halls are just buildings. There may be more
than one
congregation using the same KH.
I doubt that he is a Jehovah's Witness, so you might want to
ask for Norma
Santana as well when you call.
I called the 856-365-0065 number but it was changed to:
856-964-6712
A recording with a lady's voice with a Spanish accent asked me to leave a
message. This is a home phone - probably that of an elder in a Spanish
congregation. The 1584 S 8th St Kingdom Hall is only a few blocks from
where
Antonio lives.
It's possible that the information that you've been posting about Antonio
has
been wrong all along.
NNTP-Posting-Host: p-282.newsdawg.com
.
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| User: "Ira Y. Palmer" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS: Science and Religion: Let the known facts speak-creative day? |
29 Sep 2006 01:26:39 AM |
|
|
"Rekur Van" <Diebuster@gun.org> wrote in message
news:_YwSg.10183$Wi1.684@trnddc06...
is Antonio L Santana aka Jabriol, Jehovah's Witness net stalker of TN
family.
Here's the proof you want your victim Carol DEAD Antonio!
----- Original Message --- one of many similar messages:
From: "Jabriol" <jabriol1@excite.com> Antonio L Santana
news:9e9431eb.0408131047.227f1e7@posting.google.com
Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 2:45 AM message inciting murder:
youre doomed.. you know it.
Help put this woman out of her misery (i.e. kill her)
(*Mr Santana then provides his victim's name, address and phone number to
anyone interested in his offer)
Call the FBI and the Police Antonio. Do it now and explain your endless
harassment, stalking, slander, threats, posting your victims PI on Usenet
and more.
==============
.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
|
| Title: Re: TOBS: Science and Religion: Let the known facts speak-creative day? |
27 Sep 2006 10:57:15 AM |
|
|
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 15:41:46 GMT, in alt.atheism , Rekur Van
<Diebuster@gun.org> in <_YwSg.10183$Wi1.684@trnddc06> wrote:
Matt Silberstein wrote:
On 27 Sep 2006 04:19:29 -0700, in alt.atheism , in
<1159355968.989372.163080@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> wrote:
In the quest for answers, we need to be guided by sound principles.
Unless we stick to the highest standards of evidence, we can easily be
misled in our search for scientific and religious truth. Realistically,
none of us can begin to evaluate all scientific knowledge and ideas,
which today fill huge libraries. On the other hand, the Bible provides
a manageable compendium of spiritual teachings for our consideration.
The Bible is well supported by known facts.
However, concerning knowledge in general, earnest effort is required to
distinguish between fact and speculation, between reality and
deception-in both science and religion. As the Bible writer Paul
advised, we need to reject "the contradictions of the falsely called
'knowledge.'" (1 Timothy 6:20) To reconcile science and the
Bible, we must let the facts speak for themselves, thereby avoiding
conjecture and speculation, and examine how each fact supports and adds
to the other.
For example, when we understand that the Bible uses the term "day"
to represent various periods of time, we see that the account of the
six creative days in Genesis need not conflict with the scientific
conclusion that the age of the earth is about four and a half billion
years. According to the Bible, the earth existed for an unstated period
before the creative days began. (Even if science corrects itself and
suggests a different age for our planet, the statements made in the
Bible still hold true. Instead of contradicting the Bible, science in
this and many other cases actually provides us with voluminous
supplemental information about the physical world, both present and
past.
The Bible *need not* conflict with science, particularly when you
really accept that it is not a science manual. But the Bible does not
help us at all when trying to figure out the deep history or natural
actions of the world, particularly when you really accept that the
Bible is not a science manual.
Because that is not the purpose of the Bible. No disagreement here.
Then stop looking to the Bible when science questions (age of the
Earth, history of life, geology, etc.) come up. It is irrelevant.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
|
|
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| User: "Rekur Van" |
|
| Title: Re: TOBS: Science and Religion: Let the known facts speak-creativeday? |
27 Sep 2006 08:35:20 PM |
|
|
Matt Silberstein wrote:
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 15:41:46 GMT, in alt.atheism , Rekur Van
Then stop looking to the Bible when science questions (age of the
Earth, history of life, geology, etc.) come up. It is irrelevant.
Not everything is irrelevant.
.
|
|
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| User: "Ken Kellerman" |
|
| Title: Re: TOBS: Science and Religion: Let the known facts speak-creative day? |
27 Sep 2006 10:15:15 PM |
|
|
"Rekur Van" is JABRIOL aka Antonio L Santana/net stalker<Diebuster@gun.org>
wrote in message news:sFFSg.12790$2G1.3635@trnddc07...
You forget to add this one Antonio L Santana. It seems Carol is really
Norma I. Santana, your own wife!!!!!!!!!!!! Your ISP is Verizon.net.
From: Vance Liscomb <Vance_member@newsguy.com>
Subject: Re: For Carolyn Gulley (Correction)
In article <dnf0qs02kqh@drn.newsguy.com>, Vance Liscomb says...
You have the wrong address. He lives with Norma I. Santanta
(born
September
1959) and his address is:
Antonio L. Santana (JABRIOL)
1064 Everett Street
Camden, NJ
(856) 968-0004
His phone number is listed under A. Santana. He was born 1961.
Oddly enough he lives across the street from the West Jersey
Hospital.
http://terraserver-
usa.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=10&Z=18&X=2454&Y=22098&W=1&qs=1064+Eve
rett+Street%7ccamden%
7cnew+jersey%7c&Addr=1064+Everett+St%2c+Camden%2c+NJ+08104&ALon=-
75.1075127&ALat=39.9275305
There are two Kingdom Halls in the area:
1584 S 8th St
Camden, NJ 08104-1469
(856) 365-0065
417 Walnut St
Camden, NJ 08103-2033
(856) 365-4457
Remember, Kingdom Halls are just buildings. There may be more
than one
congregation using the same KH.
I doubt that he is a Jehovah's Witness, so you might want to
ask for Norma
Santana as well when you call.
I called the 856-365-0065 number but it was changed to:
856-964-6712
A recording with a lady's voice with a Spanish accent asked me to leave a
message. This is a home phone - probably that of an elder in a Spanish
congregation. The 1584 S 8th St Kingdom Hall is only a few blocks from
where
Antonio lives.
It's possible that the information that you've been posting about Antonio
has
been wrong all along.
NNTP-Posting-Host: p-282.newsdawg.com
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
|
| Title: Re: TOBS: Science and Religion: Let the known facts speak-creative day? |
27 Sep 2006 08:54:07 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 01:35:20 GMT, in alt.atheism , Rekur Van
<Diebuster@gun.org> in <sFFSg.12790$2G1.3635@trnddc07> wrote:
Matt Silberstein wrote:
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 15:41:46 GMT, in alt.atheism , Rekur Van
Then stop looking to the Bible when science questions (age of the
Earth, history of life, geology, etc.) come up. It is irrelevant.
Not everything is irrelevant.
True. But the Bible is irrelevant to science questions. I thought we
had agreed on that.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
|
|
|
| User: "Rekur Van" |
|
| Title: Re: TOBS: Science and Religion: Let the known facts speak-creativeday? |
28 Sep 2006 10:41:07 AM |
|
|
Matt Silberstein wrote:
On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 01:35:20 GMT, in alt.atheism , Rekur Van
<Diebuster@gun.org> in <sFFSg.12790$2G1.3635@trnddc07> wrote:
Matt Silberstein wrote:
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 15:41:46 GMT, in alt.atheism , Rekur Van
Then stop looking to the Bible when science questions (age of the
Earth, history of life, geology, etc.) come up. It is irrelevant.
Not everything is irrelevant.
True. But the Bible is irrelevant to science questions. I thought we
had agreed on that.
We did. The Bible is not a science manual. I would not go to the Bible
to get information on astronomy. However the Bible tells me that the
Hebrews had a concept of star constellations.
.
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| User: "Ira Y. Palmer" |
|
| Title: Re: TOBS: Science and Religion: Let the known facts speak-creative day? |
28 Sep 2006 01:18:12 PM |
|
|
"Rekur Van" <Diebuster@gun.org> wrote in message
news:n2SSg.12869$2G1.2650@trnddc07... SLASH!!!!!!!
Jabriol, the above poster (Puerto Rican who hates negroes and whites) aka
Antonio L Santana Jehovah's Witness/Camden NJ gives Usenet a fine
witness<chess@checkmate.org> for Jehovah when he wrote in message
news:N1J3g.4417$yI1.3403@trnddc04...
You lying ***** of of (white Catholic) Lithuanians immigrants.
This incites HATE.
This intolerant prejudiced bigot also calls bi-racial children "black
***** human wannabes and baboons." It's all archived.
Let us judge the TREE (WTS) by the FRUIT (JWs) it produces.
.
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| User: "Charlie Brown" |
|
| Title: Re: TOBS: Science and Religion: Let the known facts speak-creative day? |
28 Sep 2006 01:04:27 PM |
|
|
"Rekur Van" is JABRIOL aka Antonio L Santana, known stalker of the Gully
family in TN <Diebuster@gun.org> wrote in message
news:n2SSg.12869$2G1.2650@trnddc07... SNIPPPPP!
The obsessed, sexually perverted nym shifting Jehovahs Witness above,
slandering, harassing and net-stalking the Gully family is:
Antonio L. (and Norma) Santana
1064 Everett Street
Camden, NJ (856) 968-0004
Members of the Spanish Speaking congragation of Jehovahs Witnesses
in Camden NJ.
Does Antonio aka jabriol lie?
Budikka666" <budikka1@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1155590460.025021.256620@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
More Jabriol a.k.a "ReelMcKoi" a.k.a. BullDozer (100s of nyms) is
Antonio L Santana (Jehovahs Witness from ARJW)
<ReelMckoi@mailinator.com> Embarrassment can be seen at:
(Antonio L Santana a.k.a Jabriol Lies Series #1
http://tinyurl.com/2w7u9
Jabriol Lies Series #2
http://tinyurl.com/2l9rl
Jabriol Lies Series #3
http://tinyurl.com/27cvs
Jabriol Lies Series #4
http://tinyurl.com/33zrt
Jabriol Lies Series #5
http://tinyurl.com/2t944
Jabriol Lies Series #6
http://tinyurl.com/3776p
Jabriol Lies Series #7
http://tinyurl.com/82da6
Jabriol Misleading Quotes series #1
http://tinyurl.com/b3n6s
.
|
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
|
| Title: Re: TOBS: Science and Religion: Let the known facts speak-creative day? |
28 Sep 2006 11:28:08 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 15:41:07 GMT, in alt.atheism , Rekur Van
<Diebuster@gun.org> in <n2SSg.12869$2G1.2650@trnddc07> wrote:
Matt Silberstein wrote:
On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 01:35:20 GMT, in alt.atheism , Rekur Van
<Diebuster@gun.org> in <sFFSg.12790$2G1.3635@trnddc07> wrote:
Matt Silberstein wrote:
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 15:41:46 GMT, in alt.atheism , Rekur Van
Then stop looking to the Bible when science questions (age of the
Earth, history of life, geology, etc.) come up. It is irrelevant.
Not everything is irrelevant.
True. But the Bible is irrelevant to science questions. I thought we
had agreed on that.
We did. The Bible is not a science manual. I would not go to the Bible
to get information on astronomy. However the Bible tells me that the
Hebrews had a concept of star constellations.
Yes, they did. A rather interesting one, IMO, but not accurate. Like
lots of pre-scientific people they thought that the sky was a think, a
physical object. In many a Native American story we hear about Coyote
or Raven going to the sky and visiting the Creator. Similarly in the
Bible we read about people building a tower that could almost reach
the sky. There world consisted of primordial water with a flat limited
Earth stuck between that water above and water below. Even Heaven (not
Heavens, that is a bad translation) was below that water. Interesting,
but not of any use if you want to learn about stuff in the Universe.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
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