mail2news_nospam-20040518-
alt.religion.christanity+alt.atheism+alt.religion.jehovahs-
witn+sci.anthropology+alt.talk.creationsm@anon.lcs.mit.edu
Re: what is a
species.. a pittbull question
creation_evolution_debate@yahoogroups.com,
jabriol
<Jabriol2000@y...> wrote:
[speciation or it defintion is
contreversial at
best.
Even the T.O faqs mentioned it has more
than 5
defintions depending on the science
discipline.
However to produce a whole new
lifeform, where it
can't bread with its parent generation,
would be
the
example I am looking for.]
Tin: Two important points. First, the
fact that there
is
no clear
dividing line between different kinds of
animals
refutes
the anti-
evolutionist positions that there are.
You have got to be kidding, to define kind
is as
difficult as to
define species.
Tin: And yet when it comes to the critical
test, does it
actually
work in field -- do scientists actually use
the
defintion to classify
animals --
I think the term they use is genus. I could be wrong.
we find that even creationists
don't bother
using their
ideas in the field. Almost as if they too
realize that
it has no
scientific value.
I don't know, I could not speak for them.
The term Kind is for rhetorical purposes
only, it was
never
intended for anything resembling science.
yet it stick with todays observations,
you can't breed a dog with a cat.
The dividing line would be breeding in nature.
One of Lenny Flanks pet peeves is New Jersey
treefrogs, is a case
in point, there are two species of tree
frogs that in
appearnce they
are Identical. They do not, will not breed
in nature,
nor captive. He
use this example to stress a point. Don't
remeber what
his point was.
But I use to tease him about to the point of
fustration
:-)
Tin: Yes, the tree frogs have evolved into
two species
based on
polyploidy mutation. They have evolved into
reproductively
incompatable species.
again you are stating a speculation. next your going
to state that a
penguin can't breed with chicken, even though both are
birds.
because they evolved differently. I can say they were
design
differntly.
one nor the other can be proven by the scientific
method.
So if you want to use reproductive
incompatability as
the criteria
for kinds, then evolution can produce new
kinds.
don't think so.. ever heard of the scotish fold?
Since
the Kind
definition is only for rhetoric the above
definition
will not be used.
If that's not your definition of kind then
please give
us the
defintion and make sure the definition can
actually be
used to
classify life. And mean that's what it
SHOULD be all
about... right ?
For starters:
1) insects one kind or many and how do
you know ?
2) rodents one kind or many and how can
you tell ?
3) birds one kind or many and how can you
tell ?
4) ungulates one kind or many and how can
you tell ?
5) hominids one kind or many and how can
you tell ?
Number 5 should be easy, How Many Homid are currently
walking the
face of the earth?
As for question 1 thru 4. those are good questions. I
would venture
to say by today observation if they can not
interbreed, nor produce
hybrids, then I would define them as a kind.
then there is the question of what do the creatures
themselves would
go after to mate with in the wild?
We can produce a liger. But if you can condition a
tiger to survive
in the african enviroment, and relase them close to a
pride of lions,
would they mate?
In fact, the
continunity of
species (life) is a fundamental component
of
evolution.
I could say the same by defintion, which would be the
purpose of a
designer.
Speciations
happens.
does it happen.. yes, Pittbull is a point
in case.
Does speciation
have a Limit? yes it does. a Dog, will still
remain a
dog, etc.
Tin: It is interesting that dogs that don't
appear in
the fossil
record until very late (Cenozoic). They are
MIA for
about 3 billion
year of the fossil record and hundreds of
millions of
the recent
fossil record. Almost like they hadn't
evolved yet.
what where they before?
again your argument is based on the assumption, that I
belive in the
six day quickie.
Or do you have some scientific alternative
and a way
to test it ?
There many alternatives, would it be accepted by the
science cabal,
is another matter.
BTW, What prevents a large group of
organisms from
continuing to
adapt to their environment ?
and extinction event or rapid enviromental change.
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