| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Jabriol" |
| Date: |
18 Mar 2005 08:16:19 AM |
| Object: |
TOBS:The Red Sea and The Egptian chariots |
Hundreds of Egyptian chariots found at bottom of Red Sea prove Moses
really did part the waters
By Mike Foster/Weekly World News
Al WAJII, Jordan-The discovery of hundreds of chariots at the bottom
of the Red Sea has
provided astonishing new evidence that the Bible was right all along:
Moses really did part the sea
--and Pharaoh's army was drowned when the two walls of water came
crashing back together!
"The chariots were overturned and shattered to bits, as if they'd
been hit by a massive tidal wave." Said Dr. Moammar el-Nazir, Jordanian
archaeo- logist, whose team made the remarkable find.
"It is really hard to imagine how those chariots could have gotten
there, to a depth of 500 feet, unless the story told in the Book of
Exodus is literally true."
The wheels, axles and other remnants of what appear to be at least 500
of the ancient vehicles were found partially buried in the mud, with
the help of a robot-controlled mini-sub. "Analysis of images gathered
by the robot sub's camera shows that the chariots closely resemble
those depicted in Egyptian art of the 13th century B.C.-the time
Moses lived," said Dr. el-Nazir.
The miraculous parting of the Red Sea is one of the most thrilling
episodes in the Bible and has been retold by Holly- wood, most
memorably in the 1950s epic <>x-tad-smaller>The Ten
Command<>x-tad-smaller>-ments<>x-tad-smaller><>smaller><>fontfamily>
and in Disney's recent animated film, <>x-tad-smaller>The Prince of
Egypt<>x-tad-smaller>.
After Pharaoh grudgingly agrees to free the Hebrew slaves from bondage
and let them leave Egypt with Moses, he has a change of heart and
decides to pursue them.
The Bible says, "And he took 600 chosen chariots and all the chariots
of Egypt, and captains over every one of them." (Ex.14:7).
With the Egyptian army bearing down on them, the Chosen People reach
the Red Sea and are trapped by the impassable barrier. Then God gives a
command to Moses and a miracle occurs.
"Moses stretched out his hand over the sea and the Lord caused the sea
to go back by a strong east wind all that night, and made the sea dry
land and the waters were divided," the Good Book says. "And the
children of Israel entered into the midst of the sea upon the dry
ground, and the waters were a wall unto them on the right hand and on
their left." (Ex. 14:21, 22).
Undeterred, Pharaoh's horsemen and charioteers follow. But as soon as
the Hebrews have crossed safely, God gives Moses the go ahead to close
the divided waters, the Bible says.
"And the waters returned and covered the chariots and the horsemen and
all the host of Pharaoh that came into the sea after them; there
remained not so much as one of them." (Ex. 4:28).
Most historians have believed that the Biblical account was just a
colorful myth-until now
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| User: "Uncle Wobbly" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS:The Red Sea and The Egptian chariots |
18 Mar 2005 09:34:47 AM |
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By Mike Foster/Weekly World News
is this the same WWN that "found" a london bus in an ice berg in the
antarctic, Found a B17 bomber on the moon and rans the story about a mother
having her son eaten by a giant alien kebab.
Unfortunately Jabs old boy, you have *NOT* added to your credibility by
quoting from this "newspaper" they are on record as saying they will publish
any story, and they don't care if it's true.
Taken in the light of the above, I can only presume you are using the
article to further debunk the stories of the alledged Hebrew flight out of
egypt which is unquestionably a chinese whisper on Akhenahten's relocation
and founding the worship of a single deity
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| User: "Jenny6833A" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS:The Red Sea and The Egptian chariots |
18 Mar 2005 09:04:30 AM |
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Also by Mike Foster/Weekly World News:
EL NINO CAUSED BY UFO EXHAUST?
by Mike Foster / Weekly World News
MELBOURNE, Australia -- Researchers have zeroed in on a possible cause
of El
Nino, the mysterious weather system that returns regularly to spawn
natural
catastrophes worldwide. Incredibly,
they suspect it is caused by hot exhaust from the engines of
UFOs!
"We compared the dates when El Nino has appeared to the dates
when the number of UFO sightings over the Pacific Ocean have
peaked, going back 200 years, and we found there is a 100 percent
correlation," declared one of the researchers, meteorologist
Gordon Roth.
"Whenever flying saucers are aloft, El Nino returns."
Jabriol wrote:
Hundreds of Egyptian chariots found at bottom of Red Sea prove Moses
really did part the waters
By Mike Foster/Weekly World News
Al WAJII, Jordan-The discovery of hundreds of chariots at the bottom
of the Red Sea has
provided astonishing new evidence that the Bible was right all along:
Moses really did part the sea
--and Pharaoh's army was drowned when the two walls of water came
crashing back together!
.
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| User: "Jabriol" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS:The Red Sea and The Egptian chariots |
18 Mar 2005 11:44:37 AM |
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You do know that a UFO does not have to be.. an estra terrestial
aircraft.
Jenny6833A wrote:
Also by Mike Foster/Weekly World News:
EL NINO CAUSED BY UFO EXHAUST?
by Mike Foster / Weekly World News
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| User: "Masked Avenger" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS:The Red Sea and The Egptian chariots |
20 Mar 2005 06:18:10 AM |
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Jabriol wrote:
You do know that a UFO does not have to be.. an estra terrestial
aircraft.
Jenny6833A wrote:
Also by Mike Foster/Weekly World News:
EL NINO CAUSED BY UFO EXHAUST?
by Mike Foster / Weekly World News
You do know that Weekly World News specialises in MAKING IT ALL UP
........ fucking moron ......
--
Masked Avenger
aa#2224
EAC Chief Technician in charge of remotely rigging Fundie 'Spell
Checkers' so they all look like hick home schooled yokels
Does Schroedinger's cat have 18 half lives ?
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| User: "Patrick Sharf" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS:The Red Sea and The Egptian chariots |
22 Mar 2005 12:09:43 AM |
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On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 23:18:10 +1100, Masked Avenger
<cootey59_remove@yahoo.com> wrote:
Jabriol wrote:
You do know that a UFO does not have to be.. an estra terrestial
aircraft.
Jenny6833A wrote:
Also by Mike Foster/Weekly World News:
EL NINO CAUSED BY UFO EXHAUST?
by Mike Foster / Weekly World News
You do know that Weekly World News specialises in MAKING IT ALL UP
....... fucking moron ......
What? You mean they really DIDN'T discover a statue of Elvis on Mars?
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| User: "Lady Chatterly" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS:The Red Sea and The Egptian chariots |
22 Mar 2005 11:01:12 AM |
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In article <ejdv31525sjapiiffj5drvfdn0vr9fiepi@4ax.com>
Patrick Sharf <kranick165@aol.com> wrote:
What? You mean they really DIDN'T discover a statue of Elvis on Mars?
You have a Nice day.
--
Lady Chatterly
"Wonder if you are also Lady Chatterly, the bot." -- Barbara Schwarz
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| User: "Rev. Karl E. Taylor" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS:The Red Sea and The Egptian chariots |
18 Mar 2005 09:43:40 AM |
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Jabriol wrote:
Hundreds of Egyptian chariots found at bottom of Red Sea prove Moses
really did part the waters
<SIGH>
Oh look, nameless has a new name now.
Oh, wait, just jabbers, being stupid again.
For the benefit of our new comers, that have never seen this done, let's
see how the jab will respond. *HINT*, nameless failed this too.
"Taking for granted that there are actual "wheels" down where they claim
to be, and ignoring the fact, that Ron Wyatt was a con artist, and a
fraud, is it possible the "wheels could have come from a sunk ship?"
It is a very simple question jabbers, and can be answered by either a
yes, or a no.
Depending on how you answer the question, will determine the path of debate.
Now, what is your answer?
--
There are none more ignorant and useless,
than they that seek answers on their knees,
with their eyes closed.
____________________________________________________________________
Rev. Karl E. Taylor
A.A #1143 PLONKED by Bob
Apostle of Dr. Lao EAC: Virgin Conversion Unit Director
____________________________________________________________________
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| User: "Uncle Wobbly" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS:The Red Sea and The Egptian chariots |
18 Mar 2005 11:33:32 AM |
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"Taking for granted that there are actual "wheels" down where they claim
to be, and ignoring the fact, that Ron Wyatt was a con artist, and a
fraud, is it possible the "wheels could have come from a sunk ship?"
knowing this rag it is most likely a fabrication to sell copy
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS:The Red Sea and The Egptian chariots |
18 Mar 2005 11:19:27 AM |
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On 18 Mar 2005 06:16:19 -0800, "Jabriol" <jabriolusenet@gmail.com>
drained his beer, leaned back in the alt.atheism beanbag and drunkenly
proclaimed the following
Hundreds of Egyptian chariots found at bottom of Red Sea prove Moses
really did part the waters
By Mike Foster/Weekly World News
0_o
You're citing the Weekly World News?
http://www.weeklyworldnews.com/
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
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| User: "Jabriol" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS:The Red Sea and The Egptian chariots |
18 Mar 2005 11:47:24 AM |
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would this help??
http://www.wyattmuseum.com/red-sea-crossing-05.htm
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| User: "Jabriol" |
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| Title: Ancient Edom unearthed? |
18 Mar 2005 02:16:01 PM |
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Archaeological evidence jibes with Bible accounts.
By Richard N. Ostling
The Associated Press
Posted March 18 2005
The Mideast's latest archaeological sensation is all about Edom.
The Bible says Edom's kings interacted with ancient Israel, but some
scholars have confidently declared that no Edomite state could have
existed that early.
The latest archaeological work indicates the Bible got it right, those
experts got it wrong and some write-ups need rewriting. The findings
could also buttress disputed biblical reports about kings David and
Solomon.
Edom was a rugged land south and east of the Dead Sea in present-day
southern Jordan. The Bible reports that Edom had kings before Israel
(Genesis 36:31, 1 Chronicles 1:43) and that they barred Moses' throng
after the Exodus (Numbers 20:14-21) and later warred with David (2
Samuel 8:13-14, 1 Kings 11:15-16).
Traditional dating puts David's rule from 1012 B.C. to 972 B.C.,
followed by son Solomon through 932 B.C. By looser reckoning, their
monarchy emerged around 1000 B.C. (The exodus came long before.)
The doubters figured the Bible erred because the earliest discovered
remains from Edom and non-biblical references dated back only to the
eighth century B.C. Such thinking ignored the old archaeological
warning that "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."
Sample skepticism:
The Anchor Bible Dictionary (1992) said "Edom was probably not a
political unity" in Moses' time, and for centuries afterward, which
also ruled out war with David.
Israel Finkelstein of Tel Aviv University contended in The Bible
Unearthed (2001, co-authored with Neil Asher Silberman) that
archaeology made it "clear" there were "no real kings and no state in
Edom" before the eighth century because earlier large settlements and
fortresses were lacking.
University of Arizona archaeologist William G. Dever wrote in Who Were
the Early Israelites and Where Did They Come From? (2003) that the Edom
region "remained largely nomadic" until perhaps the seventh century
B.C. when a "semi-sedentary tribal state emerged."
Dever, for one, acknowledges that the chronology has been thrown
centuries earlier and thinks the "revolutionary" findings support the
Bible's credibility concerning Edom and the kingdom of David and
Solomon.
(Dever remains dubious about the biblical history of the earlier
Exodus, dismissing conservatives who cite the towns on Moses' route
named in Egyptian records.)
The Edom dig is described in Antiquity, a British archaeological
quarterly, by Russell Adams of Canada's McMaster University; Thomas
Levy of the University of California, San Diego; and colleagues in
Britain, Israel, Germany and Jordan.
They report that pottery and radiocarbon dating of organic materials
from a major copper mill in Jordan show settlement in the 11th century
B.C. and perhaps earlier. An impressive fortress site, 80 yards square,
dates to the 10th century era of David and Solomon.
This doesn't explicitly support the Bible's references to Edom, Adams
says, but does prove that the Edomites thrived in the 10th century, and
that lends credibility to the biblical chronology. Dever has examined
pottery from the site and is convinced that some is Israelite,
indicating David's kingdom engaged in international trading.
source:
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/features/lifestyle/sfl-edommar18,0,5910045.story?coll=sfla-features-headlines
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| User: "Rev. Karl E. Taylor" |
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| Title: Re: Ancient Edom unearthed? |
18 Mar 2005 02:31:16 PM |
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Jabriol wrote:
Archaeological evidence jibes with Bible accounts.
Having failed with the "wheel" noise, you now attempt to move on to a
different topic, that has just as much going for it as the "wheels" did.
Jabbers, you're a loser. Get over yourself. If you said the sky was
blue, no one would believe you.
Why don't you do yourself, and the world a favor? Go back to your
church, and stay there. You obviously do not have what it takes to
survive in the real world.
--
There are none more ignorant and useless,
than they that seek answers on their knees,
with their eyes closed.
____________________________________________________________________
Rev. Karl E. Taylor
A.A #1143 PLONKED by Bob
Apostle of Dr. Lao EAC: Virgin Conversion Unit Director
____________________________________________________________________
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Ancient Edom unearthed? CONTRADICTION |
19 Mar 2005 10:41:56 PM |
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Jabriol wrote:
Archaeological evidence jibes with Bible accounts.
===>Very funny!
You are caught in your own contradiction:
Your source says, as you quote below,
"This doesn't explicitly support the Bible's references to Edom"
yet both you and the article you quote attempts to claim that
it does!
In fact the ORIGINAL report states that the findings are
"liberating us from chronological assumptions based on
Biblical records". and that in the area of Edom
"occupation BEGINS in the eleventh century BC and monumental
fortress is built in the tenth."
http://russellbadams.brinkster.net/publications/Levy%20and%20Adams%20et%20al.%20Antiquity%202004.pdf
also
http://antiquity.ac.uk/index.html
Oh, well...
Credulous people are willing to believe anything they feel
acceptable to them. -- L.
===========================
By Richard N. Ostling
The Associated Press
Posted March 18 2005
The Mideast's latest archaeological sensation is all about Edom.
The Bible says Edom's kings interacted with ancient Israel, but some
scholars have confidently declared that no Edomite state could have
existed that early.
The latest archaeological work indicates the Bible got it right, those
experts got it wrong and some write-ups need rewriting. The findings
could also buttress disputed biblical reports about kings David and
Solomon.
Edom was a rugged land south and east of the Dead Sea in present-day
southern Jordan. The Bible reports that Edom had kings before Israel
(Genesis 36:31, 1 Chronicles 1:43) and that they barred Moses' throng
after the Exodus (Numbers 20:14-21) and later warred with David (2
Samuel 8:13-14, 1 Kings 11:15-16).
Traditional dating puts David's rule from 1012 B.C. to 972 B.C.,
followed by son Solomon through 932 B.C. By looser reckoning, their
monarchy emerged around 1000 B.C. (The exodus came long before.)
The doubters figured the Bible erred because the earliest discovered
remains from Edom and non-biblical references dated back only to the
eighth century B.C. Such thinking ignored the old archaeological
warning that "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."
Sample skepticism:
The Anchor Bible Dictionary (1992) said "Edom was probably not a
political unity" in Moses' time, and for centuries afterward, which
also ruled out war with David.
Israel Finkelstein of Tel Aviv University contended in The Bible
Unearthed (2001, co-authored with Neil Asher Silberman) that
archaeology made it "clear" there were "no real kings and no state in
Edom" before the eighth century because earlier large settlements and
fortresses were lacking.
University of Arizona archaeologist William G. Dever wrote in Who Were
the Early Israelites and Where Did They Come From? (2003) that the Edom
region "remained largely nomadic" until perhaps the seventh century
B.C. when a "semi-sedentary tribal state emerged."
Dever, for one, acknowledges that the chronology has been thrown
centuries earlier and thinks the "revolutionary" findings support the
Bible's credibility concerning Edom and the kingdom of David and
Solomon.
(Dever remains dubious about the biblical history of the earlier
Exodus, dismissing conservatives who cite the towns on Moses' route
named in Egyptian records.)
The Edom dig is described in Antiquity, a British archaeological
quarterly, by Russell Adams of Canada's McMaster University; Thomas
Levy of the University of California, San Diego; and colleagues in
Britain, Israel, Germany and Jordan.
They report that pottery and radiocarbon dating of organic materials
from a major copper mill in Jordan show settlement in the 11th century
B.C. and perhaps earlier. An impressive fortress site, 80 yards square,
dates to the 10th century era of David and Solomon.
This doesn't explicitly support the Bible's references to Edom, Adams
says, but does prove that the Edomites thrived in the 10th century, and
that lends credibility to the biblical chronology. Dever has examined
pottery from the site and is convinced that some is Israelite,
indicating David's kingdom engaged in international trading.
source:
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/features/lifestyle/sfl-edommar18,0,5910045.story?coll=sfla-features-headlines
.
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| User: "Jabriol" |
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| Title: Re: Ancient Edom unearthed? CONTRADICTION |
20 Mar 2005 02:41:00 AM |
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Libertarius wrote:
Jabriol wrote:
Archaeological evidence jibes with Bible accounts.
===>Very funny!
You are caught in your own contradiction:
Your source says, as you quote below,
"This doesn't explicitly support the Bible's references to Edom"
--------> your point?, they are making the standard disclaimer.
.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Ancient Edom unearthed? CONTRADICTION |
20 Mar 2005 10:15:44 AM |
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Jabriol wrote:
Libertarius wrote:
Jabriol wrote:
Archaeological evidence jibes with Bible accounts.
===>Very funny!
You are caught in your own contradiction:
Your source says, as you quote below,
"This doesn't explicitly support the Bible's references to Edom"
--------> your point?, they are making the standard disclaimer.
===>But YOU and the article you cite DO claim that it does!
THAT was the "point", which of course you lyingly deleted. -- L.
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| User: ".." |
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| Title: Re: Ancient Edom unearthed? CONTRADICTION |
20 Mar 2005 11:26:32 AM |
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"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:423DA1B0.450875CE@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
Jabriol wrote:
Libertarius wrote:
Jabriol wrote:
Archaeological evidence jibes with Bible accounts.
===>Very funny!
You are caught in your own contradiction:
Your source says, as you quote below,
"This doesn't explicitly support the Bible's references to Edom"
--------> your point?, they are making the standard disclaimer.
===>But YOU and the article you cite DO claim that it does!
THAT was the "point", which of course you lyingly deleted. -- L.
===============================
When Jabriol and other JWs lie it's OK since they call it "Theocratic
Warfare." It's LYING in the name of their Watchtower god and the WTS's GB.
If someone else is suspected of lying they go hysterical!!!! And, they
never provide any proof.
--
CR.........
What the world needs is not dogma but an attitude of scientific
inquiry combined with a belief that the torture of millions is
not desirable, whether inflicted by Stalin or by a Deity imagined
in the likeness of the believer. ~ Bertrand Russell ~
~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ ~~ * ~~
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Ancient Edom unearthed? CONTRADICTION |
20 Mar 2005 12:33:07 PM |
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".." wrote:
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:423DA1B0.450875CE@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
Jabriol wrote:
Libertarius wrote:
Jabriol wrote:
Archaeological evidence jibes with Bible accounts.
===>Very funny!
You are caught in your own contradiction:
Your source says, as you quote below,
"This doesn't explicitly support the Bible's references to Edom"
--------> your point?, they are making the standard disclaimer.
===>But YOU and the article you cite DO claim that it does!
THAT was the "point", which of course you lyingly deleted. -- L.
===============================
When Jabriol and other JWs lie it's OK since they call it "Theocratic
Warfare." It's LYING in the name of their Watchtower god and the WTS's GB.
If someone else is suspected of lying they go hysterical!!!! And, they
never provide any proof.
===>The old Pauline principle is:
"But if through my lie the truth of God abounded to His glory,
why am I also still being judged as a sinner?" Romans 3:7 -- L.
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| User: "jabriol" |
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| Title: Re: Ancient Edom unearthed? CONTRADICTION |
20 Mar 2005 11:38:14 AM |
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===>But YOU and the article you cite DO claim that it does!
THAT was the "point", which of course you lyingly deleted. -- L
------> actually me and the article did no such thing. you are not
like carol I hope, that belives her own lies, are you?
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Ancient Edom unearthed? CONTRADICTION |
20 Mar 2005 12:38:39 PM |
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jabriol wrote:
===>But YOU and the article you cite DO claim that it does!
THAT was the "point", which of course you lyingly deleted. -- L
------> actually me and the article did no such thing. you are not
like carol I hope, that belives her own lies, are you?
===>Never mind "carol".
Your problem is, I don't believe YOUR lies!
YOU
"Jabriol" wrote:
"Archaeological evidence jibes with Bible accounts."
And the article you cited said:
"The latest archaeological work indicates the Bible got it right"
Even though it is clearly stated:
"This doesn't explicitly support the Bible's references to Edom"
So, your lies are being exposed. -- L.
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| User: "o?o" |
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| Title: Re: Ancient Edom unearthed? CONTRADICTION |
20 Mar 2005 10:04:26 PM |
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"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:423DC32F.A036FBEA@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
jabriol wrote:
===>But YOU and the article you cite DO claim that it does!
THAT was the "point", which of course you lyingly deleted. -- L
------> actually me and the article did no such thing. you are not
like carol I hope, that belives her own lies, are you?
===>Never mind "carol".
Your problem is, I don't believe YOUR lies!
YOU
"Jabriol" wrote:
"Archaeological evidence jibes with Bible accounts."
And the article you cited said:
"The latest archaeological work indicates the Bible got it right"
Even though it is clearly stated:
"This doesn't explicitly support the Bible's references to Edom"
So, your lies are being exposed. -- L.
===================================
If you follow the threads in which JWs participate it makes you wonder if
they know the difference between the truth and a lie or falsehood. Or if
they care. They will blatantly lie even when confronted with their own
posts from the past!!! They will make up the most outrageous stories about
total strangers who expose their cult for the scam it is,... in hopes of
discrediting said persons. What does this tell us about the teachings of
their cult? It clearly teaches them that lying is OK if it furthers the
WTS's or their own agendas. This makes it difficult to have any meaningful
discussions with them on any subject.
--
RC.....
"To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as
erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin."
[Cardinal Bellarmine 1615, during the trial of Galileo]
================================
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| User: "Gregory Gadow" |
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| Title: Re: Ancient Edom unearthed? |
18 Mar 2005 03:19:37 PM |
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There is a lot of history in the Bible that is based in fact. Egypt existed. Jericho existed. The Assyrians
and Babylonians invaded Israel and Judah respectively. So?
Dan Brown set "Angels and Demons" out of the CERN laboratory complex, which certainly exists. The story has a
lot of action in Rome and the Vatican, both of which certainly exist. That is not proof that that a CERN
scientist-priest managed to create a quantity of anti-matter which was then stolen by Illuminati terrorists
in an effort to blow up the College of Cardinals as they assembled to elect a new pope. Or does it?
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"[T]hose who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves;
and, under the rule of a just God, cannot long retain it."
-- Pres. George W. Bush, Hypocrite, his inauguration speech, 2005
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| User: "Rev. Karl E. Taylor" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS:The Red Sea and The Egptian chariots |
18 Mar 2005 12:28:58 PM |
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Jabriol wrote:
would this help??
http://www.wyattmuseum.com/red-sea-crossing-05.htm
Answer the question.
Yes or No?
And I already know about the con jobs of Ron Wyatt.
Answer the question put to you.
--
There are none more ignorant and useless,
than they that seek answers on their knees,
with their eyes closed.
____________________________________________________________________
Rev. Karl E. Taylor
A.A #1143 PLONKED by Bob
Apostle of Dr. Lao EAC: Virgin Conversion Unit Director
____________________________________________________________________
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| User: "John Ings" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS:The Red Sea and The Egptian chariots |
18 Mar 2005 12:20:33 PM |
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On 18 Mar 2005 09:47:24 -0800, "Jabriol" <jabriolusenet@gmail.com>
wrote:
would this help??
http://www.wyattmuseum.com/red-sea-crossing-05.htm
No, but this will:
http://www.tentmaker.org/WAR/
http://www.isitso.org/guide/wyatt.html
## The name is Tucker, not sucker!
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| User: "Lady Chatterly" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS:The Red Sea and The Egptian chariots |
18 Mar 2005 02:06:09 PM |
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In article <6p6m31d1560s231s11nn98kud9ooscmao9@4ax.com>
John Ings <nodamned@spam.org> wrote:
On 18 Mar 2005 09:47:24 -0800, "Jabriol" <jabriolusenet@gmail.com>
wrote:
would this help??
http://www.wyattmuseum.com/red-sea-crossing-05.htm
No, but this will:
If you do not know, but you did not say I am still here, you are not
stretching, not usenet.
http://www.tentmaker.org/WAR/
http://www.isitso.org/guide/wyatt.html
## The name is Tucker, not sucker!
The GPS unit I have with me works here. I'm not sure why that
surprises me. There are also a great many communications and Internet
satellite systems.
--
Lady Chatterly
"I say Lady Chatterly needs a new nym and some new groups." -- Dr. Zen
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| User: "Jabriol" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS:The Red Sea and The Egptian chariots |
18 Mar 2005 12:56:46 PM |
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John Ings wrote:
On 18 Mar 2005 09:47:24 -0800, "Jabriol" <jabriolusenet@gmail.com>
wrote:
would this help??
http://www.wyattmuseum.com/red-sea-crossing-05.htm
No, but this will:
http://www.tentmaker.org/WAR/
http://www.isitso.org/guide/wyatt.html
## The name is Tucker, not sucker!
point taken. I am giving my own sources a lashing :-)
It did look good at the time..
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| User: "Uncle Wobbly" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS:The Red Sea and The Egptian chariots |
18 Mar 2005 05:02:40 PM |
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point taken. I am giving my own sources a lashing :-)
It did look good at the time..
excellent - this is the first evidence I have ever seen of Jabs putting his
hands up and saying "it's a fair cop"
It adds greatly to ones credibility to admit it when you have been had -
like the joke BTW.
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| User: "Rev. Karl E. Taylor" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS:The Red Sea and The Egptian chariots |
18 Mar 2005 01:22:11 PM |
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Jabriol wrote:
John Ings wrote:
On 18 Mar 2005 09:47:24 -0800, "Jabriol" <jabriolusenet@gmail.com>
wrote:
would this help??
http://www.wyattmuseum.com/red-sea-crossing-05.htm
No, but this will:
http://www.tentmaker.org/WAR/
http://www.isitso.org/guide/wyatt.html
## The name is Tucker, not sucker!
point taken. I am giving my own sources a lashing :-)
It did look good at the time..
I see you still refuse to respond to my question, with a simple yes or
no answer.
Simply amazing. Nameless was exactly the same way.
I would have to assume, that it is because the simple answer, throws the
whole story into the dust bin of mythology where it belongs.
But people that want to believe in fairy tales, can't bring themselves
to deal with the obvious.
Another failure for Jabbers and the bible.
--
There are none more ignorant and useless,
than they that seek answers on their knees,
with their eyes closed.
____________________________________________________________________
Rev. Karl E. Taylor
A.A #1143 PLONKED by Bob
Apostle of Dr. Lao EAC: Virgin Conversion Unit Director
____________________________________________________________________
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| User: "Uncle Wobbly" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS:The Red Sea and The Egptian chariots |
18 Mar 2005 05:16:27 PM |
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I would have to assume, that it is because the simple answer, throws the
whole story into the dust bin of mythology where it belongs.
I don't think it was entirely mythology... as with all great stories they
start with an element of truth... there is evidence of great *local* floods
in the area of Mesopotamia in antiquity. The black sea has recently been
found to have several flooded cities near the shore. Certainly when they
were flooded, the inhabitants would not have known it was not global... when
grandad was telling his story of how he saw it when he was a boy, it
"covered the whole world" as the open-mouthed children gasp in
astonishment... the firelight twinkling in their wide-eyes. They came to
believe it, grew-up believing it and passed on the story to their children,
someone wrote it down and it suddenly is established as a fact.
Same with this red sea thing... the essence of the story of Moses leaving is
unquestionably based on Akhenahten who took his followers and left (those
left behind being exceptionally grumpy about this) and established a new
religion based on the worship of a single deity - the ahten (sun)... put
2000 years worth of fireside story telling on this one and you end up with
moses - who was allegedly raised as an Egyptian and rose to high office -
taking a good proportion of the populace with him and leaving the
established ways having been alerted to the prescence of a single deiety (by
a burning bush - a nice twist grandad!). There are too many similarities;
I'm convinced.
http://tinyurl.com/6r93e
http://tinyurl.com/7yzr6
http://tinyurl.com/6lbh4
and just to play devil's advocate...
http://tinyurl.com/6adeg
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| User: "AC" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS:The Red Sea and The Egptian chariots |
18 Mar 2005 05:33:18 PM |
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On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 23:16:27 -0000,
Uncle Wobbly <unclewobbly@talk21.com> wrote:
I would have to assume, that it is because the simple answer, throws the
whole story into the dust bin of mythology where it belongs.
I don't think it was entirely mythology... as with all great stories they
start with an element of truth...
Is there any reason to presume that "all great stories" have an element of
truth?
there is evidence of great *local* floods
in the area of Mesopotamia in antiquity.
If there's any real source to the Sumerian flood myth that others later
ripped off, then this would seem the most likely.
The black sea has recently been
found to have several flooded cities near the shore.
No cities so far as I'm aware. Some houses, perhaps. And the idea that
this was some sort of catastrophic flooding has pretty much been falsified.
Certainly when they
were flooded, the inhabitants would not have known it was not global... when
grandad was telling his story of how he saw it when he was a boy, it
"covered the whole world" as the open-mouthed children gasp in
astonishment... the firelight twinkling in their wide-eyes. They came to
believe it, grew-up believing it and passed on the story to their children,
someone wrote it down and it suddenly is established as a fact.
Or it could just simply be total fantasy, like the idea that Zeus enjoys
impregnating human women.
Same with this red sea thing... the essence of the story of Moses leaving is
unquestionably based on Akhenahten who took his followers and left (those
left behind being exceptionally grumpy about this) and established a new
religion based on the worship of a single deity - the ahten (sun)... put
2000 years worth of fireside story telling on this one and you end up with
moses - who was allegedly raised as an Egyptian and rose to high office -
taking a good proportion of the populace with him and leaving the
established ways having been alerted to the prescence of a single deiety (by
a burning bush - a nice twist grandad!). There are too many similarities;
I'm convinced.
I don't see any meaningful similarities at all. I see no reason whatsoever
to assume that the tribal herdsmen of ancient Palestine would have picked up
that particular story.
This is the kind of pattern matching which can get people into trouble. It's
the same sort of thinking that had Thor Hyderdahl talking about Egyptians
having contact with Meso-Americans because both people built pyramids at
some point in their cultural history.
--
mightymartianca@hotmail.com
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| User: "Daryl Krupa" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS:The Red Sea and The Egptian chariots |
18 Mar 2005 10:59:29 PM |
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AC wrote:
On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 23:16:27 -0000,
Uncle Wobbly <unclewobbly@talk21.com> wrote:
<snip>
The black sea has recently been
found to have several flooded cities near the shore.
No cities so far as I'm aware. Some houses, perhaps. And the idea
that
this was some sort of catastrophic flooding has pretty much been
falsified.
Certainly when they
were flooded, the inhabitants would not have known it was not
global... when
grandad was telling his story of how he saw it when he was a boy,
it
"covered the whole world" as the open-mouthed children gasp in
astonishment... the firelight twinkling in their wide-eyes. They
came to
believe it, grew-up believing it and passed on the story to their
children,
someone wrote it down and it suddenly is established as a fact.
Or it could just simply be total fantasy, like the idea that Zeus
enjoys
impregnating human women.
<snip>
Indeed, the only "flooded cities" found are parts of
coastal ports that have subsided since the Black Sea
rose to its present level. Those submerged buildings
are in shallow water near the Danube delta.
Parts of the modern Black Sea Flood claim are total
fantasy, like the imaginary dam that supposedly broke
7500 years ago. Somebody wrote that down, and suddenly
it was established as a "fact".
The trouble is, altogether too many people have the
mistaken idea that a catastrophic flood in the Black
Sea was the inspiration for the Noah's Flood story in
the Bible.
The TV programs on that topic are outdated and overly
sensational and can be safely ignored.
Sadly, you, Dear Uncle, and maybe millions of other
people, have been misled on this subject.
Alas, there was no "Noachian" Black Sea Flood, and
the science in William Ryan's and Walter Pitman's
book "Noah's Flood: the event that changed history"
has in several cases been superceded by better
information that indicates that there was no such event,
and was in most cases preceded by evidence that indicated
that there was no such event.
Ryan and Pitman set out to overturn the orthodox view
of the history of the Black Sea, but they have apparently
abandoned their hypothesis, if more recent articles
co-authored by Ryan are any indication.
The orthodox view has prevailed, subject to some
recent minor modifications.
There is evidence that there was an outflow southward
_from_ the Black Sea through the Bosphorus _to_ the
Mediterranean from more than 10000 years ago
(well before Ryan and Pitman's initial 5600 BCE flood
date), continuously until the present day, though
there may have been a relatively short interruption.
And evidence from the south shore of the Black sea
shows that the level of the Black Sea was only 18 m
below the present level at the time of the supposed
BSFlood.
The more recent claim by Ryan puts the flood date at
8400 BP, or about 9000 years ago, but then the
"floodwaters" through the Bosphorus channel would have
been only about 5 metres deep.
9000 years ago is when everybody else always thought
that Mediterranean saltwater first entered the Black Sea.
At about that time, the last phase of Glacial Lake Agassiz,
in central Canada, finally found an outlet to the sea
through or under the remnants of the Laurentide Ice Sheet
in what is now Hudson Bay, and so out into the North
Atlantic, raising sea level an appreciable amount, and
perhaps triggering a sudden inflow of saltwater into the
Black Sea basin.
But probably not sudden or great enough to inspire a
Noachian Flood myth.
Better candidates are widespread inundation of low-lying
parts of the Persian Gulf associated with the final
draining of Glacial Lake Agassiz, and similar flooding of
the Tigris-Euphrates delta, and (most likely) simultaneous
flooding of the Tigris and Euphrates, which would have
looked like a flooding of the entire world from
the viewpoint of a person near present-day Baghdad.
These candidates could each or all have inspired the flood
myth in the epic of Gilgamesh, which predates the first
known appearance of the Noachian Flood myth.
Check this out, for a layman-friendly synopsis of the
refutation:
http://home.entouch.net/dmd/bseaflod.htm
On the draining of Glacial Lake Agassiz:
http://cgrg.geog.uvic.ca/abstracts/PerkinsOnceDuring.html
And here's a fairly recent news item on refutation of
Ryan's
and Pitman's hypothesis:
<BEGIN QUOTE>
January 14, 2003
Scientists are seriously challenging a recent,
fascinating proposal that Noah's epic story --
setting sail with an ark jam-full of animal
couples -- was based on an actual catastrophic
flood that suddenly filled the Black Sea 7,500
years ago, forcing people to flee.
In a detailed new look at the rocks, sediments,
currents and seashells in and around the Black Sea,
an international research team pooh-poohs the Noah
flood idea, arguing that all the geologic, hydrologic
and biologic signs are wrong.
Little that the earth can tell us seems to fit the
Noah story, they say. The new research takes direct
aim at the work of two Columbia University geologists
-- William Ryan and Walter Pitman -- whose proposal
in 1997 ignited much new interest, and much new
research, into Middle East history and geology.
<END QUOTE>
Also, Ballard did not find Noah's House, and he has
recently admitted that he didn't find any evidence of
human occupation of the Black Sea continental shelf,
let alone any support for the BSFlood hypothesis.
Here is another recent news article telling you about
that (please be warned that several statements in the
article are erroneous, e.g. "Scholars agree the Black
Sea flooded when rising world sea levels caused the
Mediterranean to burst over land and fill the then-
freshwater lake."):
"Black Sea Trip Yields No Flood Conclusions"
http://www.puresupply.com/newap/D8458SGG3.html
There was no actual ruined building found by Ballard,
but rather just a partly rectangular outline of
raised bed on the continental shelf, that might even
be the outline of the wheelhouse of a modern freighter.
To the northwest the outline continues, and narrows to
a point.
To the southeast, the outline continues for a shorter
distance, and ends in a rounded curve.
Just what you'd expect when a sunken ship's hull is
covered with sediment.
The wood he found, that dated to either about 3000 years
ago or to Napoleon's time, didn't necessarily contaminate
the site as driftwood from somewhere else; it might have
been part of the ship, and so accurately dates the site.
The roughly-worked stones that he found could have been
the ship's ballast.
Nothing that Ballard found is definite evidence of a house.
And he certainly did not find "several flooded cities".
That idea is just a weird exaggeration.
Here are a couple of relevant scientific papers:
Gorur, N., Cagatay, N., Emre, ., Alpar, B., Sakinc,
M., Islamoglu,
Y., Algan, O., Erkal, T., Kecer, M., Akk k, R. &
Karlik, G. (2001)
"Is the abrupt drowning of the Black Sea shelf at 7150
yr BP a myth?"
Marine Geology 176: 65-73
"Persistent Holocene Outflow from the Black Sea to the
Eastern
Mediterranean Contradicts Noah's Flood Hypothesis"
http://www.geosociety.org/pubs/gsatoday/toc0205.htm
Course notes showing diagrams from the most relevant
papers can be see here:
http://www.geosociety.org/pubs/gsatoday/toc0205.htm
Radio interview with a marine geologist re: the
BSFlood:
http://www.radio.cbc.ca/programs/quirks/archives/01-02/mp3/qq220602b.mp3
Several presentations on the BSFlood:
http://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2003AM/finalprogram/session_9644.htm
There's lots more, but you'd need access to scientific
journals
to read it, but you could ask me for more details if
you want them.
Some of the articles are available on the Web.
Sorry to splash water in the frying pan,
Daryl Krupa
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