| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Yang, AthD h.c" |
| Date: |
26 Aug 2004 01:51:06 AM |
| Object: |
"Too ***** To Serve" Now #1 On Amazon.com!!!! |
============================================================
"do not volunteer."
Box Checked by GWB when asked if he would like to serve in
Vietnam
============================================================
-----
Yang
a.a. #28
AthD (h.c.) conferred by the regents of the LCL
a.a. pastor #-273.15, the most frigid church of Celcius nee Kelvin
EAC Econometric Forecast and Sorcery Division
Proudly plonked by Lani Girl and Crazyalec
The Bush 'balanced' budget: 1.2 trillion and worsening
The Bush 'economic' policy: -3 million jobs and counting
The Bush Iraq lie: -966 GIs, one friend's co-worker's son and mounting
Having Bush ***** up my country: Worthless
.
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| User: "Hanoi Jane Fonda" |
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| Title: Statement By Swift Boat Veterans for Truth Member Larry Thurlow!!! |
26 Aug 2004 02:09:07 AM |
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Statement By Swift Boat Veterans for Truth Member Larry Thurlow!!!
I am convinced that the language used in my citation for a Bronze Star
was language taken directly from John Kerry's report which falsely
described the action on the Bay Hap River as action that saw small
arms fire and automatic weapons fire from both banks of the river.
To this day, I can say without a doubt in my mind, along with other
accounts from my shipmates-there was no hostile enemy fire directed at
my boat or at any of the five boats operating on the river that day.
I submitted no paperwork for a medal nor did I file an after action
report describing the incident. To my knowledge, John Kerry was the
only officer who filed a report describing his version of the
incidents that occurred on the river that day.
It was not until I had left the Navy-approximately three months after
I left the service-that I was notified that I was to receive a
citation for my actions on that day.
I believed then as I believe now that I received my Bronze Star for my
efforts to rescue the injured crewmen from swift boat number three and
to conduct damage control to prevent that boat from sinking. My boat
and several other swift boats went to the aid of our fellow swift boat
sailors whose craft was adrift and taking on water. We provided
immediate rescue and damage control to prevent boat three from sinking
and to offer immediate protection and comfort to the injured crew.
After the mine exploded, leaving swift boat three dead in the water,
John Kerry's boat, which was on the opposite side of the river, fled
the scene. US Army Special Forces officer Jim Rassmann, who was on
Kerry's boat at the time, fell off the boat and into the water.
Kerry's boat returned several minutes later-under no hail of enemy
gunfire-to retrieve Rassmann from the river only seconds before
another boat was going to pick him up.
Kerry campaign spokespersons have conflicting accounts of this
incident-the latest one being that Kerry's boat did leave but only
briefly and returned under withering enemy fire to rescue Mr.
Rassmann. However, none of the other boats on the river that day
reported enemy fire nor was anyone wounded by small arms action. The
only damage on that day was done to boat three-a result of the
underwater mine. None of the other swift boats received damage from
enemy gunfire.
And in a new development, Kerry campaign officials are now finally
acknowledging that while Kerry's boat left the scene, none of the
other boats on the river ever left the damaged swift boat. This is a
direct
contradiction to previous accounts made by Jim Rassmann in the
Oregonian newspaper and a direct contradiction to the "No Man Left
Behind" theme during the Democratic National Convention.
These ever changing accounts of the Bay Hap River incident by Kerry
campaign officials leave me asking one question. If no one ever left
the scene of the Bay Hap River incident, how could anyone be left
behind?
---------
Liberals Hate America!
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| User: "Hanoi Jane Fonda" |
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| Title: Vietnam Controversy Costing Kerry, Says Historian!! Liberals Hate America!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
26 Aug 2004 02:07:51 AM |
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Vietnam Controversy Costing Kerry, Says Historian!! Liberals Hate
America!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Monday, Aug. 23, 2004
Author and Vietnam historian B. G. Burkett tells in an exclusive
interview that Senator John Kerry is mired in a quagmire worse than
the one he complained about in Vietnam.
The controversy may just cost him the presidency, Burkett says.
“Kerry keeps losing points every day this controversy wears on in the
media,” Burkett told shortly before Kerry’s campaign filed a legal
complaint with the FEC to stop the Swift Boat Veterans ads.
A sign of desperation?
Burkett is no stranger to such controversy and measures. He has been
sued multiple times after exposing phony military records of Vietnam
veterans - many of whom never even served in Vietnam.
Burkett’s book “Stolen Valor: How the Vietnam Generation Was Robbed of
Its Heroes and Its History” (Verity Press) was published in 1998 and
has become a must read for those who want to unlock the truth about
Vietnam and its aftermath.
In fact, Burkett’s book has been credited in being among the first to
question John Kerry’s war record. Burkett has interviewed and spoken
with many of the Swift Boaters who served with Kerry and his
commanding officers.
Kerry Responds
As Swift Boat Veterans for the Truth keep ramming away at John Kerry’s
carefully crafted hero image, the beleaguered candidate has finally
turned to a media blitz of his own.
In his new TV ad Kerry defends his actions that led to him receiving
the Bronze Star.
The ad features Jim Rassmann, one of his loyal dozen “band of
brothers,” certifying Kerry’s bravery under fire as the future senator
from Massachusetts and presidential candidate pulled him from the
water under withering fire after a couple of mines exploded during a
South Vietnam river operation.
Or was it just one mine that exploded? And were there small arms
sweeping the area as well as the after-action reports claimed?
The Swift Boat vets that criticize Kerry say only one mine exploded
under a boat not commanded by Kerry and there was no accompanying
enemy fire.
How did Green Beret Rassmann fall off Kerry’s boat only to be rescued
from the drink by Kerry? Burkett says witnesses attest that Rassmann
fell off Kerry’s boat because Kerry engaged the boat in a frantic
maneuver to flee from away from the action around the exploding mine.
Preponderance of Evidence
What will settle the controversy?
“They [the Swift boat group] will go away only if Kerry announces he
has removed himself from the race,” replies a cynical Burkett, who has
been making a study of the growing controversy that has dominated the
TV talk shows and radio pundits.
Although Burkett feels that the fog of war may forever keep the real
truth from emerging from the smoke, he does believe that the vet group
is moving ahead in establishing its less flattering version of the
Kerry exploits by “a preponderance of the evidence.”
“These Swift Boats moved in squadrons and formations,” explains
Burkett. “Sometimes the better vantage point for observing the action
was from another boat.”
And John O’Neil, co-author of the bestseller “Unfit for Command” has
interviewed these other observers, taking dispute with the so-called
“after-action” reports filed by Lt. (j.g.) Kerry.
These reports later provided the basis for Kerry’s now much celebrated
Silver Star, Bronze Star and three Purple Heart decorations - all
earned in an abbreviated and bigger than life four month stint
in-country.
“The people up the chain of command assumed that none of their
officers would cheat,” opines Burkett.
“It’s a back and forth catfight” says Burkett, who thinks that the
tide may break dramatically to the side of the disaffected vets if one
of the loyal Kerry band of brothers turns colors.
How likely is that?
“Well, they [Swift Boat Veterans for the Truth] keep hoping,” says
Burkett. But if O’Neil has done his homework so has Kerry, he
explains. “Kerry long ago called all his men together to settle on one
version of the action.”
Other critics say that Kerry’s campaign has already put on the payroll
one or more of his “band of brothers.”
Veteran Steve Gardner, however, is one of the Kerry crew members who
has never gone along with the Kerry program: “I watched him put his
crew in jeopardy, his indecisive moves…”
So why was Gardner so singular?
“You have to realize that Gardner was an unusual member of the crew,”
explains the author. “Gardner had a previous tour of duty on Swift
Boats. He knew the right way to confront the enemy - not the Kerry way
[steering to open water].”
Kerry’s Navy More Like McHale’s
Burkett goes on to explain that a stalwart, chance-taking Kerry would
be contrary to the historic Kerry, who he describes as “always
belly-aching and whining about how the admirals had decided to send
the Swift Boats up those dangerous jungle-clogged rivers.”
According to Burkett, Kerry had volunteered with the notion that his
tour was going to be a sort of gentlemanly duty of offshore
coast-watching - not close combat with an enemy lurking on the shores.
Burkett has suggested in the past that the way out of the dilemma for
Kerry would be for Kerry to open up all his files by executing a
blanket SF-180 form allowing all the press to have independent access
to his file.
Burkett, however, says the release of Kerry’s full file, which he does
not believe has taken place despite Kerry’s claims otherwise, will
still not stop the Swift Boat Vets who are opposed to Kerry.
“It would have some bearing to the press, but it’s not going to deter
this group,” says Burkett.
“And remember,” adds Burkett, “this is not a bunch of Republicans
going after Kerry. If Kerry were running as a Republican, the attacks
would be just the same.”
Burkett himself has criticized President Bush for his National Guard
duty during the Vietnam War.
Just how worried is the Kerry camp?
“You bet they are worried,” says Burkett. “This election may just turn
on those five percent undecided out there. The bottom line is simple
-- the longer the dispute wears on, the more Kerry loses. They’re
never going to resolve this dispute.”
---------
Liberals Hate America!
.
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| User: "Dave Cook" |
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| Title: Re: Vietnam Controversy Costing Kerry, Says Historian!! Liberals Hate America!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
26 Aug 2004 11:54:12 AM |
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Hanoi Jane Fonda <hanoi_jane@N0SPAM.C0M> wrote in message news:<503ri05ggv6ceapgoe0s0onitnkfmmp0pb@4ax.com>...
Vietnam Controversy Costing Kerry, Says Historian!! Liberals Hate
America!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Monday, Aug. 23, 2004
Author and Vietnam historian B. G. Burkett tells in an exclusive
interview that Senator John Kerry is mired in a quagmire worse than
the one he complained about in Vietnam.
The controversy may just cost him the presidency, Burkett says.
?Kerry keeps losing points every day this controversy wears on in the
media,? Burkett told shortly before Kerry?s campaign filed a legal
complaint with the FEC to stop the Swift Boat Veterans ads.
A sign of desperation?
Burkett is no stranger to such controversy and measures. He has been
sued multiple times after exposing phony military records of Vietnam
veterans - many of whom never even served in Vietnam.
Burkett?s book ?Stolen Valor: How the Vietnam Generation Was Robbed of
Its Heroes and Its History? (Verity Press) was published in 1998 and
has become a must read for those who want to unlock the truth about
Vietnam and its aftermath.
In fact, Burkett?s book has been credited in being among the first to
question John Kerry?s war record. Burkett has interviewed and spoken
with many of the Swift Boaters who served with Kerry and his
commanding officers.
Kerry Responds
As Swift Boat Veterans for the Truth keep ramming away at John Kerry?s
carefully crafted hero image, the beleaguered candidate has finally
turned to a media blitz of his own.
In his new TV ad Kerry defends his actions that led to him receiving
the Bronze Star.
There are some things for him to explain, but I doubt that they will
be covered.
The reason that many people are starting to analyze some important
questions raised by the book, "Unfit for Command" is that the stuff in
question is from the official records, and not from someone's
statement that could be politically motivated. The records show that
there was no damage to Kerry's Swift Boat in the March 13,1969
"ambush" that got Kerry the bronze star and got him out of Vietnam.
(One of the other boats had three bullet holes from the previous day,
but only the boat that hit the mine was damaged on the 13th.) That
seems a little strange, in fact, impossible. There is no way that VC
could have fired at a 50 foot long boat from less than 50 yards away
(half the length of a football field) and never hit it. Clearly, there
was NO GUNFIRE FROM THE RIVER BANK. Kerry lied. His lie added a Bronze
Star to his collection. His "wound" from that "battle" got him out of
Vietnam. Two injuries - a small bruise on his right arm and a minor
injury to his buttocks - won Kerry his Third Purple Heart and a trip
home. Whether the wound to his buttocks was the result of his fooling
around with a granade is unimportant. It was not obtained during enemy
action, and is not eligible for a purple heart.
We really can not be sure that Kerry hit the "panic button" throwing
Rassmann into the water, and accelerating off after the mine exploded.
If this part of the SBVT's story is true, then Kerry is truly "Unfit
for Command".
Face it. The SBVT, not Kerry, appear to be telling the truth. Kerry is
no war hero, and it shows a character flaw. Is something that happened
so far back still important? That is for the voters to decide, but
this is why Kerry is so anxious to have people stop discussing it.
The ad features Jim Rassmann, one of his loyal dozen ?band of
brothers,? certifying Kerry?s bravery under fire as the future senator
from Massachusetts and presidential candidate pulled him from the
water under withering fire after a couple of mines exploded during a
South Vietnam river operation.
Or was it just one mine that exploded? And were there small arms
sweeping the area as well as the after-action reports claimed?
The Swift Boat vets that criticize Kerry say only one mine exploded
under a boat not commanded by Kerry and there was no accompanying
enemy fire.
How did Green Beret Rassmann fall off Kerry?s boat only to be rescued
from the drink by Kerry? Burkett says witnesses attest that Rassmann
fell off Kerry?s boat because Kerry engaged the boat in a frantic
maneuver to flee from away from the action around the exploding mine.
Preponderance of Evidence
What will settle the controversy?
?They [the Swift boat group] will go away only if Kerry announces he
has removed himself from the race,? replies a cynical Burkett, who has
been making a study of the growing controversy that has dominated the
TV talk shows and radio pundits.
Although Burkett feels that the fog of war may forever keep the real
truth from emerging from the smoke, he does believe that the vet group
is moving ahead in establishing its less flattering version of the
Kerry exploits by ?a preponderance of the evidence.?
?These Swift Boats moved in squadrons and formations,? explains
Burkett. ?Sometimes the better vantage point for observing the action
was from another boat.?
And John O?Neil, co-author of the bestseller ?Unfit for Command? has
interviewed these other observers, taking dispute with the so-called
?after-action? reports filed by Lt. (j.g.) Kerry.
These reports later provided the basis for Kerry?s now much celebrated
Silver Star, Bronze Star and three Purple Heart decorations - all
earned in an abbreviated and bigger than life four month stint
in-country.
?The people up the chain of command assumed that none of their
officers would cheat,? opines Burkett.
?It?s a back and forth catfight? says Burkett, who thinks that the
tide may break dramatically to the side of the disaffected vets if one
of the loyal Kerry band of brothers turns colors.
How likely is that?
?Well, they [Swift Boat Veterans for the Truth] keep hoping,? says
Burkett. But if O?Neil has done his homework so has Kerry, he
explains. ?Kerry long ago called all his men together to settle on one
version of the action.?
Other critics say that Kerry?s campaign has already put on the payroll
one or more of his ?band of brothers.?
Veteran Steve Gardner, however, is one of the Kerry crew members who
has never gone along with the Kerry program: ?I watched him put his
crew in jeopardy, his indecisive moves??
So why was Gardner so singular?
?You have to realize that Gardner was an unusual member of the crew,?
explains the author. ?Gardner had a previous tour of duty on Swift
Boats. He knew the right way to confront the enemy - not the Kerry way
[steering to open water].?
Kerry?s Navy More Like McHale?s
Burkett goes on to explain that a stalwart, chance-taking Kerry would
be contrary to the historic Kerry, who he describes as ?always
belly-aching and whining about how the admirals had decided to send
the Swift Boats up those dangerous jungle-clogged rivers.?
According to Burkett, Kerry had volunteered with the notion that his
tour was going to be a sort of gentlemanly duty of offshore
coast-watching - not close combat with an enemy lurking on the shores.
Burkett has suggested in the past that the way out of the dilemma for
Kerry would be for Kerry to open up all his files by executing a
blanket SF-180 form allowing all the press to have independent access
to his file.
Burkett, however, says the release of Kerry?s full file, which he does
not believe has taken place despite Kerry?s claims otherwise, will
still not stop the Swift Boat Vets who are opposed to Kerry.
?It would have some bearing to the press, but it?s not going to deter
this group,? says Burkett.
?And remember,? adds Burkett, ?this is not a bunch of Republicans
going after Kerry. If Kerry were running as a Republican, the attacks
would be just the same.?
Burkett himself has criticized President Bush for his National Guard
duty during the Vietnam War.
Just how worried is the Kerry camp?
?You bet they are worried,? says Burkett. ?This election may just turn
on those five percent undecided out there. The bottom line is simple
-- the longer the dispute wears on, the more Kerry loses. They?re
never going to resolve this dispute.?
---------
Liberals Hate America!
.
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| User: "Lloyd Parker" |
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| Title: Re: Vietnam Controversy Costing Kerry, Says Historian!! Liberals Hate America!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
26 Aug 2004 09:02:02 AM |
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In article <c687e307.0408260854.2cb63dd@posting.google.com>,
(Dave Cook) wrote:
Hanoi Jane Fonda <hanoi_jane@N0SPAM.C0M> wrote in message
news:<503ri05ggv6ceapgoe0s0onitnkfmmp0pb@4ax.com>...
Vietnam Controversy Costing Kerry, Says Historian!! Liberals Hate
America!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Monday, Aug. 23, 2004
Author and Vietnam historian B. G. Burkett tells in an exclusive
interview that Senator John Kerry is mired in a quagmire worse than
the one he complained about in Vietnam.
The controversy may just cost him the presidency, Burkett says.
?Kerry keeps losing points every day this controversy wears on in the
media,? Burkett told shortly before Kerry?s campaign filed a legal
complaint with the FEC to stop the Swift Boat Veterans ads.
A sign of desperation?
Burkett is no stranger to such controversy and measures. He has been
sued multiple times after exposing phony military records of Vietnam
veterans - many of whom never even served in Vietnam.
Burkett?s book ?Stolen Valor: How the Vietnam Generation Was Robbed of
Its Heroes and Its History? (Verity Press) was published in 1998 and
has become a must read for those who want to unlock the truth about
Vietnam and its aftermath.
In fact, Burkett?s book has been credited in being among the first to
question John Kerry?s war record. Burkett has interviewed and spoken
with many of the Swift Boaters who served with Kerry and his
commanding officers.
Kerry Responds
As Swift Boat Veterans for the Truth keep ramming away at John Kerry?s
carefully crafted hero image, the beleaguered candidate has finally
turned to a media blitz of his own.
In his new TV ad Kerry defends his actions that led to him receiving
the Bronze Star.
There are some things for him to explain, but I doubt that they will
be covered.
The reason that many people are starting to analyze some important
questions raised by the book, "Unfit for Command" is that the stuff in
question is from the official records, and not from someone's
statement that could be politically motivated.
Exactly. And as the NYTimes reported, all the Navy reports, and all the
reports from people at the time, support Kerry.
The records show that
there was no damage to Kerry's Swift Boat in the March 13,1969
OK, lie #1
"ambush" that got Kerry the bronze star and got him out of Vietnam.
(One of the other boats had three bullet holes from the previous day,
but only the boat that hit the mine was damaged on the 13th.)
Your claim.
That
seems a little strange, in fact, impossible. There is no way that VC
could have fired at a 50 foot long boat from less than 50 yards away
(half the length of a football field) and never hit it. Clearly, there
was NO GUNFIRE FROM THE RIVER BANK.
Your claim. All the reports at the time say otherwise.
Kerry lied.
Or you are.
His lie added a Bronze
Star to his collection. His "wound" from that "battle" got him out of
Vietnam. Two injuries - a small bruise on his right arm and a minor
injury to his buttocks - won Kerry his Third Purple Heart and a trip
home.
Again, your claim, not supported by the reports and testimony at the time.
Whether the wound to his buttocks was the result of his fooling
around with a granade is unimportant. It was not obtained during enemy
action, and is not eligible for a purple heart.
If it's in a combat zone, it is. Look it up.
We really can not be sure that Kerry hit the "panic button" throwing
Rassmann into the water, and accelerating off after the mine exploded.
We can't be sure you aren't a slime dragon.
If this part of the SBVT's story is true, then Kerry is truly "Unfit
for Command".
If pigs had wings, they'd fly.
Face it. The SBVT, not Kerry, appear to be telling the truth.
Read the NYTimes analysis. All the evidence from the time shows otherwise.
Kerry is
no war hero,
Even Bush says he is.
and it shows a character flaw. Is something that happened
so far back still important? That is for the voters to decide, but
this is why Kerry is so anxious to have people stop discussing it.
.
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