| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Bill" |
| Date: |
15 Jan 2006 04:39:11 PM |
| Object: |
TOO MANY GODS |
Intelligent adults do not normally believe in myths and fables.
They do not believe that Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny, The Wizard of OZ,
Harry Potter or Aesop's Fables are real. They believe correctly that they
are fiction.
They believe this because there is no objective verifiable evidence for
their existence. All there are is fictional stories written by other men.
Why do they believe in Gods? Again there is NO - NADA objective verifiable
evidence for the existence of any Gods. All there are is ancient texts
written by other unknown men. There are no original documents in existence
because they written long before the invention of the printing press. All
the religious documents on which religions are based are no more than hand
copies of copies etc. of unknown accuracy or veracity.
Most of the stories are totally illogical, contradictory and impossible.
They are obviously an unknown mixture of myths, fables and
folklore.
Major religious texts and documents;
Baha'i Sacrid writtings
Life of Buddha - Dhammapada - Pali cannon
The Bible - Christian religious documents - 18 English versions alone.
No originals of the old or new testaments exist.
The Analects - Confuscianism
The Eddas and Sagas - Icelandic beliefs
Wicca - Neo paganism of Greece and Rome
Bhagavgita and Rig Veda - Hinduism
Qur'an - Islam
Adi Granth and Dasam Granth - canonical scripture of the Sikhs
Tanakh - Jewism
Tao-Te-Ching - Taoism
Nag Hammadi - Gnostics
Zhuan Falun - Falun Gong
Of all these different Gods and belief systems which is the true one, if
any, and which are fakes? Non of these documents are any objective evidence.
They are all documents written, hand copied, modified and further copied,
over the centuries, by errant men with their own personal and selfish
motivations. All of these documents were hand written and hand copied and
modified over the centuries before the invention of the printing press.
There is no way to determine authenticity or accuracy of any of these. The
objective evidence is that they are a mixture of inaccurate history, myth,
folklore and legends.
Man can directly communicate with the whole world via TV, the Internet,
Phone and Radio. If there is a real God, why does he not announce to the
whole world from his heaven, by at least an equally effective means, that he
is the real God and all the others are fakes? And why does he not tell us
clearly and directly what he expects from us instead of using hundreds of
vague, ancient, contradictory, unoriginal documents compiled by dozens of
different religions and hundreds of unauthenticated men?
I'll tell you why. The real objective evidence is that no Gods CREATED MAN
but quite the opposite; that man created gods!
.
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: TOO MANY GODS |
17 Jan 2006 05:31:08 AM |
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"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:M7Ayf.70233$Lb1.32057@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
Intelligent adults do not normally believe in myths and fables.
They do not believe that Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny, The Wizard of OZ,
Harry Potter or Aesop's Fables are real. They believe correctly that they
are fiction.
They believe this because there is no objective verifiable evidence for
their existence. All there are is fictional stories written by other men.
Why do they believe in Gods? Again there is NO - NADA objective verifiable
evidence for the existence of any Gods.
FALSE!!!! There are loads of existing gods in our museums and libraries,
both concrete ones and abstract. Concrete gods a la Zeus, Odin etc. etc.
went out of the religion business thousands of years ago. Gods and devils
since then have been ideals of quality, or the lack of quality. I.e. the
lust / greed for money has been traditionally represented by Mammon. Our
Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) become fully manifested in Jesus
Christ on the cross of Calvary. That is why Christ is our God incarnate,
meaning the ideal of the quality "love" appearing fully in the man Jesus
Christ. See below why.
Pastor Frank
THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST
Jesus in Matthew. 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye
for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: (Exodus 21:23-24)
39: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall
smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40: And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let
him have thy cloke also.
41: And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
42: Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee
turn not thou away.
43: Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour,
and hate thine enemy.
44: But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do
good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you,
and persecute you;
45: That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for
he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on
the just and on the unjust.
46: For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? Do not even
the publicans the same?
47: And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? Do
not even the publicans so?
48: Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is
perfect.
---------------------
His teaching is a humongous step up from Judaism's Exodus 21:23-24
"If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth
for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound,
stripe for stripe."
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| User: "xeno" |
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| Title: Theocracy sucks, dude |
18 Jan 2006 04:33:07 AM |
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On Tue, 17 Jan 2006, Pastor Frank wrote:
Concrete gods a la Zeus, Odin etc. etc. went out of the religion
business thousands of years ago. Gods and devils since then have been
ideals of quality, or the lack of quality ...
IOW, god is just an idea in your head & even you consider religion a
racket.
.
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| User: "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim" |
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| Title: Re: TOO MANY GODS |
16 Jan 2006 06:39:57 PM |
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"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:M7Ayf.70233$Lb1.32057@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
Intelligent adults do not normally believe in myths and fables.
They do not believe that Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny, The Wizard of OZ,
Harry Potter or Aesop's Fables are real. They believe correctly that they
are fiction.
please do not compare the "mass-murdering, child-killing, loving, caring"
christian god with the easter bunny, santa claus, the wizard of oz, the
tooth fairy or any fictional character.
santa claus, the tooth fairy, the easter bunny and the wizard of oz have
never demanded that people MURDER their only son, you can't say the same for
the "loving, caring" christian god
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| User: "Richo" |
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| Title: Re: TOO MANY GODS |
15 Jan 2006 10:36:22 PM |
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Bill wrote:
Intelligent adults do not normally believe in myths and fables.
I'd say the evidence is overwhelming that they do.
On my Planet at least.
They do not believe that Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny, The Wizard of OZ,
Harry Potter or Aesop's Fables are real. They believe correctly that they
are fiction.
Well you didnt say "Believe in EVERY myth and Fable".
Of course no one believes in absolutely every myth and fable.
Thats obvious and not at all interesting.
What is interesting is why people believe a few select myths and reject
others.
The answers are many and complex.
They believe this because there is no objective verifiable evidence for
their existence.
How do you know this?
You cant - you are just making ***** up.
Why do they believe in Gods? Again there is NO - NADA objective verifiable
evidence for the existence of any Gods.
So obviously that isnt the reason.
Hmmm must be something else - like persona,l subjective,
emotional/intuitive reasons!
Most of the stories are totally illogical, contradictory and impossible.
And yet millions of people have believed - I guess Logic isnt as
important as you thought it was.
Of all these different Gods and belief systems which is the true one, if
any, and which are fakes?
None of them are true and very few (if any) are fake.
(You have constructed what in logic is refered to as a "false
dichotomy")
The belief in gods is "faked" occasionally by dishonest individuals but
most false gods are believed in with complete sincerity.
Mark.
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: TOO MANY GODS |
17 Jan 2006 02:12:39 PM |
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"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1137386182.073610.279270@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Bill wrote:
Intelligent adults do not normally believe in myths and fables.
I'd say the evidence is overwhelming that they do.
On my Planet at least.
They do not believe that Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny, The Wizard of OZ,
Harry Potter or Aesop's Fables are real. They believe correctly that they
are fiction.
Well you didnt say "Believe in EVERY myth and Fable".
Of course no one believes in absolutely every myth and fable.
Thats obvious and not at all interesting.
What is interesting is why people believe a few select myths and reject
others.
The answers are many and complex.
They believe this because there is no objective verifiable evidence for
their existence.
How do you know this?
You cant - you are just making ***** up.
Why do they believe in Gods? Again there is NO - NADA objective
verifiable
evidence for the existence of any Gods.
You must be going through life with both eyes and ears firmly closed to
believe that, as our museums and libraries are replete with gods of all
kinds, both physical and abstract. I myself own a genuine pagan animist
fertility god from Brazil, called Figa. Our Christian "God is love" (1 John
4:8,16).
It's just that gods and devils of YOUR own personal and private
definition don't exist, for you make sure their definition is sufficiently
ludicrous, that no sane person would believe in anything remotely like it.
In other words, you made unbelief your god or devil, for what you DON'T
believe is all you ever talk about.
Pastor Frank
"GOD" THE CHRISTIAN MEANING OF THE WORD ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE:
Jesus in Jn:4:24: "GOD IS A SPIRIT, and they that worship him must
worship him in spirit and in truth."
Jesus in John 14:6-10: Jesus saith unto him: "I am the way, the truth,
and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me,
ye should have known my Father also, and from henceforth YE KNOW HIM AND
HAVE SEEN HIM."
Philip saith unto him: "Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us."
Jesus saith unto him: "Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast
thou not known me, Philip? HE THAT HAS SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER;
and how sayest thou then: Show us the Father? Believest thou not that I am
in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak unto you I speak
not of myself, but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."
Jesus in Jn:10:30: I and my Father are one.
Jesus in John 12:44-46`Then Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes
in me, believes not in me but in Him who sent me. And he who sees me sees
Him who sent Me. I have come as a light into the world, that whoever
believes in me should not abide in darkness."
Jesus in Lk 17:20-21: And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when
the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said: "The kingdom of
God cometh not with observation. Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo
there! For, behold, the kingdom of GOD IS WITHIN YOU."
1Jn:4:8: He that loveth not, knoweth not God; for GOD IS LOVE.
1Jn:4:16: And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us.
GOD IS LOVE; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
Acts:17:28: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain
also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
.
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| User: "xeno" |
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| Title: Theocracy sucks, dude |
18 Jan 2006 04:18:05 AM |
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On Wed, 18 Jan 2006, Pastor Frank wrote:
Why do they believe in Gods? Again there is NO - NADA objective
verifiable
evidence for the existence of any Gods.
You must be going through life with both eyes and ears firmly closed to
believe that, as our museums and libraries are replete with gods of all
kinds ...
Is your whole theology based on this stupid equivocation or what, dude?
.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: TOO MANY GODS |
17 Jan 2006 06:14:54 PM |
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Pastor Frank wrote:
"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1137386182.073610.279270@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Bill wrote:
Intelligent adults do not normally believe in myths and fables.
I'd say the evidence is overwhelming that they do.
On my Planet at least.
They do not believe that Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny, The Wizard of OZ,
Harry Potter or Aesop's Fables are real. They believe correctly that they
are fiction.
Well you didnt say "Believe in EVERY myth and Fable".
Of course no one believes in absolutely every myth and fable.
Thats obvious and not at all interesting.
What is interesting is why people believe a few select myths and reject
others.
The answers are many and complex.
They believe this because there is no objective verifiable evidence for
their existence.
How do you know this?
You cant - you are just making ***** up.
Why do they believe in Gods? Again there is NO - NADA objective
verifiable
evidence for the existence of any Gods.
You must be going through life with both eyes and ears firmly closed to
believe that, as our museums and libraries are replete with gods of all
kinds, both physical and abstract. I myself own a genuine pagan animist
fertility god from Brazil, called Figa. Our Christian "God is love" (1 John
4:8,16).
It's just that gods and devils of YOUR own personal and private
definition don't exist,
===>But you claim that the god of YOUR "own personal and private
definition" does exist, What a ridiculous, conceited idiot you are,
"Pastor" Frank! -- L.
.
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: TOO MANY GODS |
19 Jan 2006 08:52:01 AM |
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"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:43CD887E.9114D92F@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
Pastor Frank wrote:
"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1137386182.073610.279270@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Bill wrote:
Intelligent adults do not normally believe in myths and fables.
I'd say the evidence is overwhelming that they do.
On my Planet at least.
They do not believe that Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny, The Wizard of
OZ,
Harry Potter or Aesop's Fables are real. They believe correctly that
they
are fiction.
Well you didnt say "Believe in EVERY myth and Fable".
Of course no one believes in absolutely every myth and fable.
Thats obvious and not at all interesting.
What is interesting is why people believe a few select myths and reject
others.
The answers are many and complex.
They believe this because there is no objective verifiable evidence
for
their existence.
How do you know this?
You cant - you are just making ***** up.
Why do they believe in Gods? Again there is NO - NADA objective
verifiable
evidence for the existence of any Gods.
You must be going through life with both eyes and ears firmly closed
to
believe that, as our museums and libraries are replete with gods of all
kinds, both physical and abstract. I myself own a genuine pagan animist
fertility god from Brazil, called Figa. Our Christian "God is love" (1
John
4:8,16).
It's just that gods and devils of YOUR own personal and private
definition don't exist,
===>But you claim that the god of YOUR "own personal and private
definition" does exist, What a ridiculous, conceited idiot you are,
"Pastor" Frank! -- L.
Why don't you read the post Libertine, before preaching atheism in our
pristine Christian NGs? Read above: Our Christian "God is love' (1 John
4:8,16) and therefore God abides in all of us, as does Satan who represents
hate. We know both, and have seen both in action, except you perhaps, for
you insist on having both your eyes firmly shut, being too busy screeching
atheist mantras to notice. See below refs.
Pastor Frank
"GOD" THE CHRISTIAN MEANING OF THE WORD ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE:
Jesus in Jn:4:24: "GOD IS A SPIRIT, and they that worship him must
worship him in spirit and in truth."
Jesus in John 14:6-10: Jesus saith unto him: "I am the way, the truth,
and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me,
ye should have known my Father also, and from henceforth YE KNOW HIM AND
HAVE SEEN HIM."
Philip saith unto him: "Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us."
Jesus saith unto him: "Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast
thou not known me, Philip? HE THAT HAS SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER;
and how sayest thou then: Show us the Father? Believest thou not that I am
in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak unto you I speak
not of myself, but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."
Jesus in Jn:10:30: I and my Father are one.
Jesus in John 12:44-46`Then Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes
in me, believes not in me but in Him who sent me. And he who sees me sees
Him who sent Me. I have come as a light into the world, that whoever
believes in me should not abide in darkness."
Jesus in Lk 17:20-21: And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when
the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said: "The kingdom of
God cometh not with observation. Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo
there! For, behold, the kingdom of GOD IS WITHIN YOU."
1Jn:4:8: He that loveth not, knoweth not God; for GOD IS LOVE.
1Jn:4:16: And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us.
GOD IS LOVE; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
Acts:17:28: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain
also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
.
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| User: "xeno" |
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| Title: Theocracy sucks, dude |
19 Jan 2006 11:22:18 PM |
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On Thu, 19 Jan 2006, Pastor Frank wrote:
Our Christian "God is love' (1 John 4:8,16) and therefore God abides in
all of us, as does Satan who represents hate. We know both, and have
seen both in action ...
That's all in your head, dude. You're just standing around with sock
puppets on pretending that "they're" commanding you to do this or to do
that.
.
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: TOO MANY GODS |
21 Jan 2006 12:27:01 AM |
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Pastor Frank wrote:
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:43CD887E.9114D92F@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
Pastor Frank wrote:
"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1137386182.073610.279270@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Bill wrote:
Intelligent adults do not normally believe in myths and fables.
I'd say the evidence is overwhelming that they do.
On my Planet at least.
They do not believe that Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny, The Wizard of
OZ,
Harry Potter or Aesop's Fables are real. They believe correctly that
they
are fiction.
Well you didnt say "Believe in EVERY myth and Fable".
Of course no one believes in absolutely every myth and fable.
Thats obvious and not at all interesting.
What is interesting is why people believe a few select myths and reject
others.
The answers are many and complex.
They believe this because there is no objective verifiable evidence
for
their existence.
How do you know this?
You cant - you are just making ***** up.
Why do they believe in Gods? Again there is NO - NADA objective
verifiable
evidence for the existence of any Gods.
You must be going through life with both eyes and ears firmly closed
to
believe that, as our museums and libraries are replete with gods of all
kinds, both physical and abstract. I myself own a genuine pagan animist
fertility god from Brazil, called Figa. Our Christian "God is love" (1
John
4:8,16).
It's just that gods and devils of YOUR own personal and private
definition don't exist,
===>But you claim that the god of YOUR "own personal and private
definition" does exist, What a ridiculous, conceited idiot you are,
"Pastor" Frank! -- L.
Why don't you read the post Libertine, before preaching atheism in our
pristine Christian NGs? Read above: Our Christian "God is love' (1 John
4:8,16) and therefore God abides in all of us, as does Satan who represents
hate. We know both, and have seen both in action, except you perhaps, for
you insist on having both your eyes firmly shut, being too busy screeching
atheist mantras to notice. See below refs.
Aaah so 'god' is simply a representation? !
Thought so, IOW a myth
Enjoy !
Pastor Frank
"GOD" THE CHRISTIAN MEANING OF THE WORD ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE:
Jesus in Jn:4:24: "GOD IS A SPIRIT, and they that worship him must
worship him in spirit and in truth."
Jesus in John 14:6-10: Jesus saith unto him: "I am the way, the truth,
and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me,
ye should have known my Father also, and from henceforth YE KNOW HIM AND
HAVE SEEN HIM."
Philip saith unto him: "Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us."
Jesus saith unto him: "Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast
thou not known me, Philip? HE THAT HAS SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER;
and how sayest thou then: Show us the Father? Believest thou not that I am
in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak unto you I speak
not of myself, but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."
Jesus in Jn:10:30: I and my Father are one.
Jesus in John 12:44-46`Then Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes
in me, believes not in me but in Him who sent me. And he who sees me sees
Him who sent Me. I have come as a light into the world, that whoever
believes in me should not abide in darkness."
Jesus in Lk 17:20-21: And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when
the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said: "The kingdom of
God cometh not with observation. Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo
there! For, behold, the kingdom of GOD IS WITHIN YOU."
1Jn:4:8: He that loveth not, knoweth not God; for GOD IS LOVE.
1Jn:4:16: And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us.
GOD IS LOVE; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
Acts:17:28: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain
also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
.
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: TOO MANY GODS |
18 Jan 2006 05:09:01 AM |
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....and too many Pastors
.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: TOO MANY GODS |
18 Jan 2006 04:49:22 PM |
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bob young wrote:
...and too many Pastors
===>So long as there are sheep to be led, there will be
"pastors" to live off the lambs. -- L.
.
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: TOO MANY GODS |
16 Jan 2006 07:38:26 AM |
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"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1137386182.073610.279270@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Why do they believe in Gods? Again there is NO - NADA objective
verifiable
evidence for the existence of any Gods.
So obviously that isnt the reason.
Hmmm must be something else - like persona,l subjective,
emotional/intuitive reasons!
No. The reason is because of institutionalized brainwashing
beginning in early childhood.
.
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| User: "Bill" |
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| Title: Re: TOO MANY GODS |
16 Jan 2006 09:50:11 AM |
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"Geoff" <gebobs@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0omdnd5kc4pPPFbenZ2dnUVZ_tWdnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1137386182.073610.279270@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Why do they believe in Gods? Again there is NO - NADA objective
verifiable
evidence for the existence of any Gods.
So obviously that isnt the reason.
Hmmm must be something else - like persona,l subjective,
emotional/intuitive reasons!
No. The reason is because of institutionalized brainwashing
beginning in early childhood.
And the panic fear of death and what comes after it! Many people
cannot mentally deal with their non existence after death.
.
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| User: "Richo" |
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| Title: Re: TOO MANY GODS |
16 Jan 2006 04:44:12 PM |
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Bill wrote:
"Geoff" <gebobs@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0omdnd5kc4pPPFbenZ2dnUVZ_tWdnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1137386182.073610.279270@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Why do they believe in Gods? Again there is NO - NADA objective
verifiable
evidence for the existence of any Gods.
So obviously that isnt the reason.
Hmmm must be something else - like persona,l subjective,
emotional/intuitive reasons!
No. The reason is because of institutionalized brainwashing
beginning in early childhood.
And the panic fear of death and what comes after it! Many people
cannot mentally deal with their non existence after death.
Good Bill - thats another emotional reason for belief - see you *can*
think outside that little box.
Keep it up - don't stop there!
Mark.
.
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| User: "Atheist 4 Bush reformed" |
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| Title: Re: TOO MANY GODS |
16 Jan 2006 04:55:56 PM |
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Richo wrote:
Why do they believe in Gods? Again there is NO - NADA objective
verifiable evidence for the existence of any Gods.
I had a notion.
Many agrarian religions were pantheistic.
Greeks, Romans, and many others were polytheistic.
Zoroastrians cut gods down to two.
Judaism, Christianity and Islam got by with just one.
As a general rule, humans seem to be invoking fewer gods,
as time goes by.
Isn't atheism the next predictable step?
Or is the last one the most difficult to dispense with?
.
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| User: "Richo" |
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| Title: Re: TOO MANY GODS |
16 Jan 2006 06:36:02 PM |
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Atheist 4 Bush (reformed) wrote:
Richo wrote:
Why do they believe in Gods? Again there is NO - NADA objective
verifiable evidence for the existence of any Gods.
<actually Bill wrote that not me>
I had a notion.
Many agrarian religions were pantheistic.
Greeks, Romans, and many others were polytheistic.
Zoroastrians cut gods down to two.
Judaism, Christianity and Islam got by with just one.
As a general rule, humans seem to be invoking fewer gods,
as time goes by.
Isn't atheism the next predictable step?
Or is the last one the most difficult to dispense with?
Well spotted - there is a sort of "progression" from animism to
polytheism to Monotheism to pantheism to atheism.
That last step is doozy though!
I can understand the fear of taking that last step - I can see it not
for everyone.
Mark
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| User: "Richo" |
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| Title: Re: TOO MANY GODS |
16 Jan 2006 04:40:10 PM |
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Geoff wrote:
"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1137386182.073610.279270@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Why do they believe in Gods? Again there is NO - NADA objective
verifiable
evidence for the existence of any Gods.
So obviously that isnt the reason.
Hmmm must be something else - like persona,l subjective,
emotional/intuitive reasons!
No. The reason is because of institutionalized brainwashing
beginning in early childhood.
Wow such absulute certainty!
Childhood indoctrination is certainly another reason people believe
stuff.
I know people who where raised Christian but never payed it too much
attention and then suddenly in their teens got "Born again".
All of a sudden they are passionate full on Jesus Freaks.
You never heard of this happening to anyone?
Mark.
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: TOO MANY GODS |
16 Jan 2006 10:50:28 PM |
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"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1137451210.643702.32050@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Geoff wrote:
"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1137386182.073610.279270@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Why do they believe in Gods? Again there is NO - NADA objective
verifiable
evidence for the existence of any Gods.
So obviously that isnt the reason.
Hmmm must be something else - like persona,l subjective,
emotional/intuitive reasons!
No. The reason is because of institutionalized brainwashing
beginning in early childhood.
Wow such absulute certainty!
Childhood indoctrination is certainly another reason people believe
stuff.
I know people who where raised Christian but never payed it too much
attention and then suddenly in their teens got "Born again".
All of a sudden they are passionate full on Jesus Freaks.
You never heard of this happening to anyone?
Sure I have. I never said there was a universal reaction by people
to any stimuli. That would be stupid. Most people though are very
credulous and the childhood indoctrination sticks.
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: TOO MANY GODS |
18 Jan 2006 04:35:43 PM |
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"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1137451210.643702.32050@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Geoff wrote:
"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1137386182.073610.279270@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Why do they believe in Gods? Again there is NO - NADA objective
verifiable evidence for the existence of any Gods.
So obviously that isnt the reason.
Hmmm must be something else - like persona,l subjective,
emotional/intuitive reasons!
No. The reason is because of institutionalized brainwashing
beginning in early childhood.
Wow such absulute certainty!
Childhood indoctrination is certainly another reason people believe
stuff.
I know people who where raised Christian but never payed it too much
attention and then suddenly in their teens got "Born again".
All of a sudden they are passionate full on Jesus Freaks.
You never heard of this happening to anyone?
Mark.
Yes. I was born into an atheist, or rather secular humanist academic
family, where mentioning a proprietary religious word was regarded akin to
farting long and loud at the dinner table. One surely would be shunned for a
while.
Consequently I was an atheist for most of my life, till I had a little
closer look at atheism, and found that atheists had a neat little trick to
make atheism obvious and logical. All they needed to do is define the word
"god" sufficiently ludicrous and outlandish, so that no sane person could,
nor would believe in any such monstrosity.
None of the theistic religions I checked defined their god anywhere near
to atheist specifications. I.e. all were abstract qualities, ideally
exhibited by man, rather than invisible concrete objects other than man. The
founding literature of Judaism and Christianity defined the word "God" by
Moses as: "I am", and by Christ as: "a spirit which must be served in spirit
etc." (John 4:24). These are philosophical principles and standards
requiring a great deal of thought, whereas atheism is merely being satisfied
with the right conclusion to a false assumption.
.
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| User: "Richo" |
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| Title: Re: TOO MANY GODS |
19 Jan 2006 04:30:03 PM |
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Pastor Frank wrote:
"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1137451210.643702.32050@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Geoff wrote:
"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1137386182.073610.279270@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Why do they believe in Gods? Again there is NO - NADA objective
verifiable evidence for the existence of any Gods.
So obviously that isnt the reason.
Hmmm must be something else - like persona,l subjective,
emotional/intuitive reasons!
No. The reason is because of institutionalized brainwashing
beginning in early childhood.
Wow such absulute certainty!
Childhood indoctrination is certainly another reason people believe
stuff.
I know people who where raised Christian but never payed it too much
attention and then suddenly in their teens got "Born again".
All of a sudden they are passionate full on Jesus Freaks.
You never heard of this happening to anyone?
Mark.
Yes. I was born into an atheist, or rather secular humanist academic
family, where mentioning a proprietary religious word was regarded akin to
farting long and loud at the dinner table. One surely would be shunned for a
while.
Consequently I was an atheist for most of my life, till I had a little
closer look at atheism, and found that atheists had a neat little trick to
make atheism obvious and logical. All they needed to do is define the word
"god" sufficiently ludicrous and outlandish, so that no sane person could,
nor would believe in any such monstrosity.
I dont believe your trick of blaming the definition of gods on atheists
is going to fool anyone for long.
You consistently report half-truths.
It is true that *some* conceptions of God tend to the abstract - but
there are billions of real human beings believing in the
angry-father-God that you falsely accuse atheist of inventing.
Mark.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: TOO MANY GODS |
19 Jan 2006 11:08:26 AM |
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Pastor Frank wrote:
"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1137451210.643702.32050@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Geoff wrote:
"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1137386182.073610.279270@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Why do they believe in Gods? Again there is NO - NADA objective
verifiable evidence for the existence of any Gods.
So obviously that isnt the reason.
Hmmm must be something else - like persona,l subjective,
emotional/intuitive reasons!
No. The reason is because of institutionalized brainwashing
beginning in early childhood.
Wow such absulute certainty!
Childhood indoctrination is certainly another reason people believe
stuff.
I know people who where raised Christian but never payed it too much
attention and then suddenly in their teens got "Born again".
All of a sudden they are passionate full on Jesus Freaks.
You never heard of this happening to anyone?
Mark.
Yes. I was born into an atheist, or rather secular humanist academic
family, where mentioning a proprietary religious word was regarded akin to
farting long and loud at the dinner table. One surely would be shunned for a
while.
Consequently I was an atheist for most of my life, till I had a little
closer look at atheism, and found that atheists had a neat little trick to
make atheism obvious and logical. All they needed to do is define the word
"god" sufficiently ludicrous and outlandish, so that no sane person could,
nor would believe in any such monstrosity.
None of the theistic religions I checked defined their god anywhere near
to atheist specifications. I.e. all were abstract qualities, ideally
exhibited by man, rather than invisible concrete objects other than man. The
founding literature of Judaism and Christianity defined the word "God" by
Moses as: "I am", and by Christ as: "a spirit which must be served in spirit
etc." (John 4:24). These are philosophical principles and standards
requiring a great deal of thought, whereas atheism is merely being satisfied
with the right conclusion to a false assumption.
Well said
.
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| User: "Bill" |
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| Title: Re: TOO MANY GODS |
20 Jan 2006 07:10:05 PM |
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That is what is known as 'circular reasoning' and like all circles it leads
no where.
"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.com> wrote in message
news:43cf18fc$0$31366$6d36acad@roc.nntpserver.com...
"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1137451210.643702.32050@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Geoff wrote:
"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1137386182.073610.279270@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Why do they believe in Gods? Again there is NO - NADA objective
verifiable evidence for the existence of any Gods.
So obviously that isnt the reason.
Hmmm must be something else - like persona,l subjective,
emotional/intuitive reasons!
No. The reason is because of institutionalized brainwashing
beginning in early childhood.
Wow such absulute certainty!
Childhood indoctrination is certainly another reason people believe
stuff.
I know people who where raised Christian but never payed it too much
attention and then suddenly in their teens got "Born again".
All of a sudden they are passionate full on Jesus Freaks.
You never heard of this happening to anyone?
Mark.
Yes. I was born into an atheist, or rather secular humanist academic
family, where mentioning a proprietary religious word was regarded akin to
farting long and loud at the dinner table. One surely would be shunned for
a while.
Consequently I was an atheist for most of my life, till I had a little
closer look at atheism, and found that atheists had a neat little trick to
make atheism obvious and logical. All they needed to do is define the word
"god" sufficiently ludicrous and outlandish, so that no sane person could,
nor would believe in any such monstrosity.
None of the theistic religions I checked defined their god anywhere
near to atheist specifications. I.e. all were abstract qualities, ideally
exhibited by man, rather than invisible concrete objects other than man.
The founding literature of Judaism and Christianity defined the word "God"
by Moses as: "I am", and by Christ as: "a spirit which must be served in
spirit etc." (John 4:24). These are philosophical principles and standards
requiring a great deal of thought, whereas atheism is merely being
satisfied with the right conclusion to a false assumption.
.
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: TOO MANY GODS |
22 Jan 2006 06:41:26 PM |
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"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:cPfAf.2132$SB2.2088@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
That is what is known as 'circular reasoning' and like all circles it
leads no where.
Lying to yourself regarding the meaning of the word "God" or "devil" is
the "circular reasoning".
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: TOO MANY GODS |
20 Jan 2006 07:13:03 PM |
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On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 20:10:05 -0500, in alt.atheism
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in
<cPfAf.2132$SB2.2088@bignews5.bellsouth.net>:
That is what is known as 'circular reasoning' and like all circles it leads
no where.
I suppose that Pastor Frank might really be a water buffalo whose job is
to grind wheat or pump water.
"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.com> wrote in message
news:43cf18fc$0$31366$6d36acad@roc.nntpserver.com...
"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1137451210.643702.32050@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Geoff wrote:
"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1137386182.073610.279270@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Why do they believe in Gods? Again there is NO - NADA objective
verifiable evidence for the existence of any Gods.
So obviously that isnt the reason.
Hmmm must be something else - like persona,l subjective,
emotional/intuitive reasons!
No. The reason is because of institutionalized brainwashing
beginning in early childhood.
Wow such absulute certainty!
Childhood indoctrination is certainly another reason people believe
stuff.
I know people who where raised Christian but never payed it too much
attention and then suddenly in their teens got "Born again".
All of a sudden they are passionate full on Jesus Freaks.
You never heard of this happening to anyone?
Mark.
Yes. I was born into an atheist, or rather secular humanist academic
family, where mentioning a proprietary religious word was regarded akin to
farting long and loud at the dinner table. One surely would be shunned for
a while.
Consequently I was an atheist for most of my life, till I had a little
closer look at atheism, and found that atheists had a neat little trick to
make atheism obvious and logical. All they needed to do is define the word
"god" sufficiently ludicrous and outlandish, so that no sane person could,
nor would believe in any such monstrosity.
None of the theistic religions I checked defined their god anywhere
near to atheist specifications. I.e. all were abstract qualities, ideally
exhibited by man, rather than invisible concrete objects other than man.
The founding literature of Judaism and Christianity defined the word "God"
by Moses as: "I am", and by Christ as: "a spirit which must be served in
spirit etc." (John 4:24). These are philosophical principles and standards
requiring a great deal of thought, whereas atheism is merely being
satisfied with the right conclusion to a false assumption.
.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: TOO MANY GODS |
17 Jan 2006 06:11:47 PM |
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ONE anthropomorphic idol sitting on a throne
in heaven is way too many! -- L.
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| User: "Kurt Nicklas" |
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| Title: Re: TOO MANY GODS |
17 Jan 2006 06:20:59 PM |
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"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:43CD87C3.9DC91B98@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
ONE anthropomorphic idol sitting on a throne
in heaven is way too many! -- L.
And what would you like to do about it?
.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: TOO MANY GODS |
18 Jan 2006 04:48:26 PM |
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Kurt Nicklas wrote:
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:43CD87C3.9DC91B98@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
ONE anthropomorphic idol sitting on a throne
in heaven is way too many! -- L.
And what would you like to do about it?
===>NOTHING.
Just point out the truth. -- L.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: TOO MANY GODS |
15 Jan 2006 09:34:11 PM |
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Bill wrote:
Intelligent adults do not normally believe in myths and fables.
They do not believe that Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny, The Wizard of OZ,
Harry Potter or Aesop's Fables are real. They believe correctly that they
are fiction.
Man can directly communicate with the whole world via TV, the Internet,
Phone and Radio. If there is a real God, why does he not announce to the
whole world from his heaven, by at least an equally effective means, that he
is the real God and all the others are fakes? And why does he not tell us
clearly and directly what he expects from us instead of using hundreds of
vague, ancient, contradictory, unoriginal documents compiled by dozens of
different religions and hundreds of unauthenticated men?
Like you, I dont know and "I don't know" is an entirely scientifically
legitimate answer.
I'll tell you why. The real objective evidence is that no Gods CREATED MAN
but quite the opposite; that man created gods!
But you can't prove it so believeing it's true requires a leap of
faith.
.
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: TOO MANY GODS |
15 Jan 2006 10:14:47 PM |
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<glugg2001@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1137382451.676912.108820@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Bill wrote:
Intelligent adults do not normally believe in myths and fables.
They do not believe that Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny, The Wizard of OZ,
Harry Potter or Aesop's Fables are real. They believe correctly that they
are fiction.
Man can directly communicate with the whole world via TV, the Internet,
Phone and Radio. If there is a real God, why does he not announce to the
whole world from his heaven, by at least an equally effective means, that
he
is the real God and all the others are fakes? And why does he not tell us
clearly and directly what he expects from us instead of using hundreds of
vague, ancient, contradictory, unoriginal documents compiled by dozens of
different religions and hundreds of unauthenticated men?
Like you, I dont know and "I don't know" is an entirely scientifically
legitimate answer.
I'll tell you why. The real objective evidence is that no Gods CREATED
MAN
but quite the opposite; that man created gods!
But you can't prove it so believeing it's true requires a leap of
faith.
Does disbelief in unicorns require a leap of faith? If I needed a leap
of faith for not believing in the infinite permutations of fanciful beings
I'd be jumping out of my jock all day.
No gods. No leap of faith required.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: TOO MANY GODS |
18 Jan 2006 05:15:53 PM |
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Bill wrote:
Intelligent adults do not normally believe in myths and fables.
Yeah, too many gods *****, son of a monkey *****, too
many gods because people like you absorbed with themselves
made themselves into gods. It took the real one true God
to make it down on earth and shed light to their lies.
They do not believe that Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny, The Wizard of OZ,
Harry Potter or Aesop's Fables are real. They believe correctly that they
are fiction.
They believe this because there is no objective verifiable evidence for
their existence. All there are is fictional stories written by other men.
Why do they believe in Gods? Again there is NO - NADA objective verifiable
evidence for the existence of any Gods. All there are is ancient texts
written by other unknown men. There are no original documents in existence
because they written long before the invention of the printing press. All
the religious documents on which religions are based are no more than hand
copies of copies etc. of unknown accuracy or veracity.
Most of the stories are totally illogical, contradictory and impossible.
They are obviously an unknown mixture of myths, fables and
folklore.
Major religious texts and documents;
Baha'i Sacrid writtings
Life of Buddha - Dhammapada - Pali cannon
The Bible - Christian religious documents - 18 English versions alone.
No originals of the old or new testaments exist.
The Analects - Confuscianism
The Eddas and Sagas - Icelandic beliefs
Wicca - Neo paganism of Greece and Rome
Bhagavgita and Rig Veda - Hinduism
Qur'an - Islam
Adi Granth and Dasam Granth - canonical scripture of the Sikhs
Tanakh - Jewism
Tao-Te-Ching - Taoism
Nag Hammadi - Gnostics
Zhuan Falun - Falun Gong
Of all these different Gods and belief systems which is the true one, if
any, and which are fakes? Non of these documents are any objective evidence.
They are all documents written, hand copied, modified and further copied,
over the centuries, by errant men with their own personal and selfish
motivations. All of these documents were hand written and hand copied and
modified over the centuries before the invention of the printing press.
There is no way to determine authenticity or accuracy of any of these. The
objective evidence is that they are a mixture of inaccurate history, myth,
folklore and legends.
Man can directly communicate with the whole world via TV, the Internet,
Phone and Radio. If there is a real God, why does he not announce to the
whole world from his heaven, by at least an equally effective means, that he
is the real God and all the others are fakes? And why does he not tell us
clearly and directly what he expects from us instead of using hundreds of
vague, ancient, contradictory, unoriginal documents compiled by dozens of
different religions and hundreds of unauthenticated men?
I'll tell you why. The real objective evidence is that no Gods CREATED MAN
but quite the opposite; that man created gods!
.
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