Religions > Atheism > TOPIC: WHO WILL DESTROY THE PLANET? SCIENCE OR FAITH, OR A COMBINATION OF BOTH?
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Jonathan Hartley" |
| Date: |
29 Mar 2007 03:03:03 PM |
| Object: |
TOPIC: WHO WILL DESTROY THE PLANET? SCIENCE OR FAITH, OR A COMBINATION OF BOTH? |
Question: Will science destroy the planet it undertook to advance beyond
superstition? Has science ultimately caused more harm than good in the
centuries since the decline of religious power? Religious fanatics are
commonly and rightfully targeted for criticism about their historic
excesses. Religion is often painted as "the villain" by critics in the same
context as "the gun" is painted by gun control advocates. In other words,
does religion kill people or do people kill people? Religion was a chief
culprit in the age of swords and spears. If religion can be blamed for the
misbehavior of the middle ages, can science be blamed for the age of the
mushroom cloud? Or is science merely the misused "gun" in the equation?
Consider contemporary issues like:
War, both conventional and non-conventional
Pollution and global warming
Overpopulation and unnatural effects of population control
Industrialization and over development
Animal and plant extinction; deforestation, habitat destruction
Sedentary lifestyles, with obesity and associated illnesses on the rise
Illnesses resulting from science and technology
Social alienation and dysfunction; human displacement
Hyper-consumerism and commercialization of culture
Eugenics, racism and "ethnic cleansing" based on government-funded junk
science
Dysfunctional economic and political theories that disrupt the human
condition
Worker displacement and devaluation
Loss of human privacy; degradation of human dignity and rights
The new morality of the technology age.
Misuse of technology; monitoring of misuse by governmental agencies
The necessitation of a global authority which misuses science and technology
to enslave the world in a misguided attempt to create a "global village."
When and if humanity succeeds in destroying itself, who will have provided
the means to do so? Science or religion? Do scientists bear any
responsibility for ensuring the future implementation of their discoveries -
or do they merely express regrets as Mr. Einstein did in regards to the
atomic bomb? How do we prevent the trickle down effect so apparent in key
scientific achievements? How do we ultimately prevent "superpower-level"
weapons of mass destruction from becoming obtainable by third world,
home-grown terrorists?
Jon
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| User: "Jonathan Hartley" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC: WHO WILL DESTROY THE PLANET? SCIENCE OR FAITH, OR A COMBINATION OF BOTH? |
29 Mar 2007 08:15:48 PM |
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"Jonathan Hartley" <jhartley@knology.net> wrote in message
Consider contemporary issues like:
War, both conventional and non-conventional
Pollution and global warming
Overpopulation and unnatural effects of population control
Industrialization and over development
Animal and plant extinction; deforestation, habitat destruction
Sedentary lifestyles, with obesity and associated illnesses on the rise
Illnesses resulting from science and technology
Social alienation and dysfunction; human displacement
Hyper-consumerism and commercialization of culture
Eugenics, racism and "ethnic cleansing" based on government-funded junk
science Dysfunctional economic and political theories that disrupt the
human condition
Worker displacement and devaluation
Loss of human privacy; degradation of human dignity and rights
Misuse of technology; monitoring of misuse by governmental agencies
The necessitation of a global authority which misuses science and
technology to enslave the world in a misguided attempt to create a "global
village."
In reviewing this list, I must say that science and technology play at least
a partial role in all these problems. And, much of this list plays into a
larger scenario of science being sold for money. Of talent being given to
the highest bidder. And, in terms of the first item, we need to try like
hell to keep the non-conventional weapons out of the hands of certain
religious fanatics.
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| User: "Mike" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC: WHO WILL DESTROY THE PLANET? SCIENCE OR FAITH, OR A COMBINATION OF BOTH? |
29 Mar 2007 08:34:14 PM |
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On Mar 29, 9:15 pm, "Jonathan Hartley" <jhart...@knology.net> wrote:
"Jonathan Hartley" <jhart...@knology.net> wrote in message
In reviewing this list, I must say that science and technology play at least
a partial role in all these problems. And, much of this list plays into a
larger scenario of science being sold for money. Of talent being given to
the highest bidder. And, in terms of the first item, we need to try like
hell to keep the non-conventional weapons out of the hands of certain
religious fanatics.
The only Muslim country with the smarts and technical skill to
develop a nuke (so far) is Pakistan. That is because they had the
advantage of inheriting a British education system from the colonial
days and were sensible enough to continue making education a
priority. The more traditional Muslim countries can never make a nuke
on their own. These morons haven't figured out that a culture that
makes studying the Koran a higher priority than studying mathematics
and science is doomed to economic, scientific, and technological
primitivity. Moreover their policy of oppressing women amounts to
wasting half of their human resources. Forbidding women to work and
simultanously trying to compete in the modern global economy is quite
literally like trying to fight with one arm tied behind your back.
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| User: "Jonathan Hartley" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC: WHO WILL DESTROY THE PLANET? SCIENCE OR FAITH, OR A COMBINATION OF BOTH? |
29 Mar 2007 09:05:20 PM |
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"Mike" <matmzc@hofstra.edu> wrote in message
news:1175218454.007114.206740@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
The only Muslim country with the smarts and technical skill to
develop a nuke (so far) is Pakistan. That is because they had the
advantage of inheriting a British education system from the colonial
days and were sensible enough to continue making education a
priority. The more traditional Muslim countries can never make a nuke
on their own. These morons haven't figured out that a culture that
makes studying the Koran a higher priority than studying mathematics
and science is doomed to economic, scientific, and technological
primitivity. Moreover their policy of oppressing women amounts to
wasting half of their human resources. Forbidding women to work and
simultanously trying to compete in the modern global economy is quite
literally like trying to fight with one arm tied behind your back.
Ah, but the danger is not that they will develop them, but that they will
buy them or steal them. But, as far as developing them, isn't Pakistan
enough. And, isn't Iran enough?
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC: WHO WILL DESTROY THE PLANET? SCIENCE OR FAITH, OR A COMBINATION OF BOTH? |
29 Mar 2007 04:18:28 PM |
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"Jonathan Hartley" <jhartley@knology.net> wrote in message
news:cc145$460c1b75$1860a0d0$5968@KNOLOGY.NET...
Question: Will science destroy the planet it undertook to advance beyond
superstition?
No.
Has science ultimately caused more harm than good in the centuries since
the decline of religious power?
By any measure, no.
Religious fanatics are commonly and rightfully targeted for criticism
about their historic excesses.
True.
Religion is often painted as "the villain" by critics in the same context
as "the gun" is painted by gun control advocates.
Perhaps, but religion purports to tell one how to live. No one says a gun
tells you how to live.
In other words, does religion kill people or do people kill people?
Religion kills people because it calls for their deaths.
Religion was a chief culprit in the age of swords and spears.
Yes.
If religion can be blamed for the misbehavior of the middle ages, can
science be blamed for the age of the mushroom cloud?
No.
Or is science merely the misused "gun" in the equation?
Yes.
Consider contemporary issues like:
War, both conventional and non-conventional
Pollution and global warming
Overpopulation and unnatural effects of population control
Industrialization and over development
Animal and plant extinction; deforestation, habitat destruction
Sedentary lifestyles, with obesity and associated illnesses on the rise
Illnesses resulting from science and technology
Social alienation and dysfunction; human displacement
Hyper-consumerism and commercialization of culture
Eugenics, racism and "ethnic cleansing" based on government-funded junk
science
Dysfunctional economic and political theories that disrupt the human
condition
Worker displacement and devaluation
Loss of human privacy; degradation of human dignity and rights
The new morality of the technology age.
Misuse of technology; monitoring of misuse by governmental agencies
The necessitation of a global authority which misuses science and
technology to enslave the world in a misguided attempt to create a "global
village."
When and if humanity succeeds in destroying itself, who will have provided
the means to do so? Science or religion? Do scientists bear any
responsibility for ensuring the future implementation of their
discoveries - or do they merely express regrets as Mr. Einstein did in
regards to the atomic bomb? How do we prevent the trickle down effect so
apparent in key scientific achievements? How do we ultimately prevent
"superpower-level" weapons of mass destruction from becoming obtainable by
third world, home-grown terrorists?
Why don't you ask this question: What has a possibility of saving us and the
planet, science or religion?
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http//www.io.com/~dloubet
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| User: "Jonathan Hartley" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC: WHO WILL DESTROY THE PLANET? SCIENCE OR FAITH, OR A COMBINATION OF BOTH? |
29 Mar 2007 08:03:57 PM |
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"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:FsydnZ3-c6m7sJHbnZ2dnUVZ_q-vnZ2d@io.com...
Religion is often painted as "the villain" by critics in the same context
as "the gun" is painted by gun control advocates.
Perhaps, but religion purports to tell one how to live. No one says a gun
tells you how to live.
True. However, the analogy I was attempting to draw is that the gun is an
object used by men to kill one another. It does not kill itself. Neither
does religion, until it is placed into the hands of someone dangerous.
Religion, like a gun, can be a force for good or bad.
If religion can be blamed for the misbehavior of the middle ages, can
science be blamed for the age of the mushroom cloud?
No.
All the others answered the same way. And I agree. It is the misuse of
science that is the cause. But, do we have a responsibility to try to
prevent the abuse? You seemed to indicate not, I believe, later in your
post. I think we need to look at science in the same light as religion. A
force that can be good or bad, depending on whose hands it is in. A force
that should be controlled.
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC: WHO WILL DESTROY THE PLANET? SCIENCE OR FAITH, OR A COMBINATION OF BOTH? |
30 Mar 2007 12:00:43 PM |
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"Jonathan Hartley" <jhartley@knology.net> wrote in message
news:26c0$460c61fb$1860a0d0$1084@KNOLOGY.NET...
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:FsydnZ3-c6m7sJHbnZ2dnUVZ_q-vnZ2d@io.com...
Religion is often painted as "the villain" by critics in the same
context as "the gun" is painted by gun control advocates.
Perhaps, but religion purports to tell one how to live. No one says a gun
tells you how to live.
True. However, the analogy I was attempting to draw is that the gun is an
object used by men to kill one another. It does not kill itself.
That's true.
Neither does religion,
That's false. Religions can and do say "Kill that guy".
until it is placed into the hands of someone dangerous.
No. When the religion commands, as part of its dogma, that unruly children
be stoned to death, it's the religion itself that's dangerous.
Religion, like a gun, can be a force for good or bad.
No. Religions ARE good or bad.
Mostly bad.
If religion can be blamed for the misbehavior of the middle ages, can
science be blamed for the age of the mushroom cloud?
No.
All the others answered the same way. And I agree. It is the misuse of
science that is the cause.
Correct. But you cannot similarly claim that religion was misused since the
religion itself is the CAUSE of its behavior.
But, do we have a responsibility to try to prevent the abuse?
Of course.
You seemed to indicate not, I believe, later in your post.
Since I have no idea what part of my post you're referencing, I cannot
correct your mischaracterization.
I think we need to look at science in the same light as religion.
No. I think that's a very bad idea.
A force that can be good or bad,
Science is not a force, and is neither good nor bad. It is a tool.
Religion is a force that controls people through ignorance and fear. That is
its sole purpose. I consider that bad.
depending on whose hands it is in.
Who determines which hands are right and which hands are wrong?
You?
A force that should be controlled.
Controlled by whom? And would their hands be the right hands or the wrong
hands?
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http//www.io.com/~dloubet
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC: WHO WILL DESTROY THE PLANET? SCIENCE OR FAITH, OR ACOMBINATION OF BOTH? |
30 Mar 2007 05:48:02 AM |
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Both without any doubt
There might be a few chimps left live though and in a couple more million years
they could learn to talk
and then watch out for the first chimp gods
- looking remarkably chimplike
Jonathan Hartley wrote:
Question: Will science destroy the planet it undertook to advance beyond
superstition? Has science ultimately caused more harm than good in the
centuries since the decline of religious power? Religious fanatics are
commonly and rightfully targeted for criticism about their historic
excesses. Religion is often painted as "the villain" by critics in the same
context as "the gun" is painted by gun control advocates. In other words,
does religion kill people or do people kill people? Religion was a chief
culprit in the age of swords and spears. If religion can be blamed for the
misbehavior of the middle ages, can science be blamed for the age of the
mushroom cloud? Or is science merely the misused "gun" in the equation?
Consider contemporary issues like:
War, both conventional and non-conventional
Pollution and global warming
Overpopulation and unnatural effects of population control
Industrialization and over development
Animal and plant extinction; deforestation, habitat destruction
Sedentary lifestyles, with obesity and associated illnesses on the rise
Illnesses resulting from science and technology
Social alienation and dysfunction; human displacement
Hyper-consumerism and commercialization of culture
Eugenics, racism and "ethnic cleansing" based on government-funded junk
science
Dysfunctional economic and political theories that disrupt the human
condition
Worker displacement and devaluation
Loss of human privacy; degradation of human dignity and rights
The new morality of the technology age.
Misuse of technology; monitoring of misuse by governmental agencies
The necessitation of a global authority which misuses science and technology
to enslave the world in a misguided attempt to create a "global village."
When and if humanity succeeds in destroying itself, who will have provided
the means to do so? Science or religion? Do scientists bear any
responsibility for ensuring the future implementation of their discoveries -
or do they merely express regrets as Mr. Einstein did in regards to the
atomic bomb? How do we prevent the trickle down effect so apparent in key
scientific achievements? How do we ultimately prevent "superpower-level"
weapons of mass destruction from becoming obtainable by third world,
home-grown terrorists?
Jon
.
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| User: "Jonathan Hartley" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC: WHO WILL DESTROY THE PLANET? SCIENCE OR FAITH, OR A COMBINATION OF BOTH? |
30 Mar 2007 06:30:07 AM |
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"bob young" <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:460CE9B4.B7BB7AD8@netvigator.com...
Bob, I think you are exactly right. Both without a doubt
Both without any doubt
There might be a few chimps left live though and in a couple more million
years
they could learn to talk
and then watch out for the first chimp gods
- looking remarkably chimplike
.
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC: WHO WILL DESTROY THE PLANET? SCIENCE OR FAITH, OR ACOMBINATION OF BOTH? |
31 Mar 2007 12:01:01 AM |
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Jonathan Hartley wrote:
"bob young" <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:460CE9B4.B7BB7AD8@netvigator.com...
Bob, I think you are exactly right. Both without a doubt
Afraid so; unless, of course, humanity comes to it's senses,
but there is little sign of it so far.
Both without any doubt
There might be a few chimps left live though and in a couple more million
years
they could learn to talk
and then watch out for the first chimp gods
- looking remarkably chimplike
.
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| User: "Atheist Militia" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC: WHO WILL DESTROY THE PLANET? SCIENCE OR FAITH, OR A COMBINATION OF BOTH? |
29 Mar 2007 04:18:28 PM |
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Honestly, I think an asteroid has a better chance of destroying the
planet than either science or religion.
A more interesting question: "What has a better chance of stopping
the asteroid that is about to destroy the planet? Science or
religion?"
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| User: "stumper" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC: WHO WILL DESTROY THE PLANET? SCIENCE OR FAITH, OR A COMBINATIONOF BOTH? |
29 Mar 2007 04:43:00 PM |
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Atheist Militia wrote:
Honestly, I think an asteroid has a better chance of destroying the
planet than either science or religion.
A more interesting question: "What has a better chance of stopping
the asteroid that is about to destroy the planet? Science or
religion?"
What has a better chance of developing a nation
capable of stopping the asteroid,
theistic capitalism or atheistic communism?
--
~Stumper
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| User: "Jonathan Hartley" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC: WHO WILL DESTROY THE PLANET? SCIENCE OR FAITH, OR A COMBINATION OF BOTH? |
29 Mar 2007 07:57:09 PM |
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"stumper" <stumper@newvessel.com> wrote in message
news:1IudnSKJn9BLr5HbnZ2dnUVZ_o2vnZ2d@ptd.net...
Atheist Militia wrote:
Honestly, I think an asteroid has a better chance of destroying the
planet than either science or religion.
A more interesting question: "What has a better chance of stopping
the asteroid that is about to destroy the planet? Science or
religion?"
What has a better chance of developing a nation
capable of stopping the asteroid,
theistic capitalism or atheistic communism?
--
~Stumper
That was a very funny response, Stumper. :-)
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| User: "quibbler" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC: WHO WILL DESTROY THE PLANET? SCIENCE OR FAITH, OR A COMBINATION OF BOTH? |
29 Mar 2007 06:14:58 PM |
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In article <1IudnSKJn9BLr5HbnZ2dnUVZ_o2vnZ2d@ptd.net>,
stumper@newvessel.com says...
Atheist Militia wrote:
Honestly, I think an asteroid has a better chance of destroying the
planet than either science or religion.
A more interesting question: "What has a better chance of stopping
the asteroid that is about to destroy the planet? Science or
religion?"
What has a better chance of developing a nation
capable of stopping the asteroid,
theistic capitalism or atheistic communism?
Atheistic mixed-capitalism would be superior to either. The commies
still have a cheaper and more efficient space program than the US.
However, the best bet is to work together. Naturally, you didn't factor
that into your false dichotomy either.
--
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
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| User: "stumper" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC: WHO WILL DESTROY THE PLANET? SCIENCE OR FAITH, OR A COMBINATIONOF BOTH? |
29 Mar 2007 07:13:44 PM |
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quibbler wrote:
In article <1IudnSKJn9BLr5HbnZ2dnUVZ_o2vnZ2d@ptd.net>,
stumper@newvessel.com says...
Atheist Militia wrote:
Honestly, I think an asteroid has a better chance of destroying the
planet than either science or religion.
A more interesting question: "What has a better chance of stopping
the asteroid that is about to destroy the planet? Science or
religion?"
What has a better chance of developing a nation
capable of stopping the asteroid,
theistic capitalism or atheistic communism?
Atheistic mixed-capitalism would be superior to either. The commies
still have a cheaper and more efficient space program than the US.
However, the best bet is to work together. Naturally, you didn't factor
that into your false dichotomy either.
I guess you just realized the silliness of the original question.
--
~Stumper
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| User: "tirebiter" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC: WHO WILL DESTROY THE PLANET? SCIENCE OR FAITH, OR A COMBINATION OF BOTH? |
31 Mar 2007 05:26:44 PM |
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On Mar 29, 4:43 pm, stumper <stum...@newvessel.com> wrote:
Atheist Militia wrote:
Honestly, I think an asteroid has a better chance of destroying the
planet than either science or religion.
A more interesting question: "What has a better chance of stopping
the asteroid that is about to destroy the planet? Science or
religion?"
What has a better chance of developing a nation
capable of stopping the asteroid,
theistic capitalism or atheistic communism?
--
~Stumper
What an idiotic question.
---
a.a. #2273
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| User: "MarkA" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC: WHO WILL DESTROY THE PLANET? SCIENCE OR FAITH, OR A COMBINATION OF BOTH? |
29 Mar 2007 04:50:31 PM |
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On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 17:43:00 -0400, stumper wrote:
Atheist Militia wrote:
Honestly, I think an asteroid has a better chance of destroying the
planet than either science or religion.
A more interesting question: "What has a better chance of stopping the
asteroid that is about to destroy the planet? Science or religion?"
What has a better chance of developing a nation capable of stopping the
asteroid,
theistic capitalism or atheistic communism?
What's wrong with atheistic capitalism?
--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
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| User: "stumper" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC: WHO WILL DESTROY THE PLANET? SCIENCE OR FAITH, OR A COMBINATIONOF BOTH? |
29 Mar 2007 05:00:14 PM |
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MarkA wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 17:43:00 -0400, stumper wrote:
Atheist Militia wrote:
Honestly, I think an asteroid has a better chance of destroying the
planet than either science or religion.
A more interesting question: "What has a better chance of stopping the
asteroid that is about to destroy the planet? Science or religion?"
What has a better chance of developing a nation capable of stopping the
asteroid,
theistic capitalism or atheistic communism?
What's wrong with atheistic capitalism?
Too much greed.
--
~Stumper
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| User: "quibbler" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC: WHO WILL DESTROY THE PLANET? SCIENCE OR FAITH, OR A COMBINATION OF BOTH? |
29 Mar 2007 06:19:09 PM |
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In article <V_mdnc3R9KFCq5HbnZ2dnUVZ_t3inZ2d@ptd.net>,
stumper@newvessel.com says...
MarkA wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 17:43:00 -0400, stumper wrote:
Atheist Militia wrote:
Honestly, I think an asteroid has a better chance of destroying the
planet than either science or religion.
A more interesting question: "What has a better chance of stopping the
asteroid that is about to destroy the planet? Science or religion?"
What has a better chance of developing a nation capable of stopping the
asteroid,
theistic capitalism or atheistic communism?
What's wrong with atheistic capitalism?
Too much greed.
No, that's what we have with theists right now. Nobody seems greedier
than these religious types, while, by contrast, atheists like Ted Turner
and Bill Gates donate billions. Atheistic capitalists actually have
reason to care about improving the economic lot of their fellow man in
the present life.
The fact is that capitalism inherently denies the efficacy of religion,
and instead puts its trust in material objects, which are inherently more
reliable. Deal with it.
--
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
.
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| User: "stumper" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC: WHO WILL DESTROY THE PLANET? SCIENCE OR FAITH, OR A COMBINATIONOF BOTH? |
29 Mar 2007 07:16:27 PM |
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quibbler wrote:
In article <V_mdnc3R9KFCq5HbnZ2dnUVZ_t3inZ2d@ptd.net>,
stumper@newvessel.com says...
MarkA wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 17:43:00 -0400, stumper wrote:
Atheist Militia wrote:
Honestly, I think an asteroid has a better chance of destroying the
planet than either science or religion.
A more interesting question: "What has a better chance of stopping the
asteroid that is about to destroy the planet? Science or religion?"
What has a better chance of developing a nation capable of stopping the
asteroid,
theistic capitalism or atheistic communism?
What's wrong with atheistic capitalism?
Too much greed.
No, that's what we have with theists right now. Nobody seems greedier
than these religious types, while, by contrast, atheists like Ted Turner
and Bill Gates donate billions. Atheistic capitalists actually have
reason to care about improving the economic lot of their fellow man in
the present life.
The fact is that capitalism inherently denies the efficacy of religion,
and instead puts its trust in material objects, which are inherently more
reliable. Deal with it.
That's a grand hypothesis.
I hope you got it from a book.
Otherwise you might have to write that book.
Are you a man of faith?
--
~Stumper
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| User: "quibbler" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC: WHO WILL DESTROY THE PLANET? SCIENCE OR FAITH, OR A COMBINATION OF BOTH? |
29 Mar 2007 11:12:07 PM |
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In article <Jr2dnenYh7tRy5HbnZ2dnUVZ_ujinZ2d@ptd.net>,
stumper@newvessel.com says...
quibbler wrote:
In article <V_mdnc3R9KFCq5HbnZ2dnUVZ_t3inZ2d@ptd.net>,
stumper@newvessel.com says...
MarkA wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 17:43:00 -0400, stumper wrote:
Atheist Militia wrote:
Honestly, I think an asteroid has a better chance of destroying the
planet than either science or religion.
A more interesting question: "What has a better chance of stopping the
asteroid that is about to destroy the planet? Science or religion?"
What has a better chance of developing a nation capable of stopping the
asteroid,
theistic capitalism or atheistic communism?
What's wrong with atheistic capitalism?
Too much greed.
No, that's what we have with theists right now. Nobody seems greedier
than these religious types, while, by contrast, atheists like Ted Turner
and Bill Gates donate billions. Atheistic capitalists actually have
reason to care about improving the economic lot of their fellow man in
the present life.
The fact is that capitalism inherently denies the efficacy of religion,
and instead puts its trust in material objects, which are inherently more
reliable. Deal with it.
That's a grand hypothesis.
It's pretty straightforward and obvious to most people who are paying
attention, so I can see why you'd have trouble with it.
I hope you got it from a book.
From a number of books, as well as the real, empirical data I cited
above.
Otherwise you might have to write that book.
I'd be happy to. However, society is already writing this book and
bold action is their ink.
Are you a man of faith?
If you wish to equivocate on issues of religious faith versus justified,
provisional acceptance then I'm not willing to waste time with you.
--
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
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| User: "MarkA" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC: WHO WILL DESTROY THE PLANET? SCIENCE OR FAITH, OR A COMBINATION OF BOTH? |
29 Mar 2007 05:28:36 PM |
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On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 18:00:14 -0400, stumper wrote:
MarkA wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 17:43:00 -0400, stumper wrote:
Atheist Militia wrote:
Honestly, I think an asteroid has a better chance of destroying the
planet than either science or religion.
A more interesting question: "What has a better chance of stopping
the asteroid that is about to destroy the planet? Science or
religion?"
What has a better chance of developing a nation capable of stopping the
asteroid,
theistic capitalism or atheistic communism?
What's wrong with atheistic capitalism?
Too much greed.
Oh, yea! Like the current, God-soaked Administration has been a model of
restraint and modesty!!
--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
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| User: "stumper" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC: WHO WILL DESTROY THE PLANET? SCIENCE OR FAITH, OR A COMBINATIONOF BOTH? |
29 Mar 2007 06:56:09 PM |
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MarkA wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 18:00:14 -0400, stumper wrote:
MarkA wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 17:43:00 -0400, stumper wrote:
Atheist Militia wrote:
Honestly, I think an asteroid has a better chance of destroying the
planet than either science or religion.
A more interesting question: "What has a better chance of stopping
the asteroid that is about to destroy the planet? Science or
religion?"
What has a better chance of developing a nation capable of stopping the
asteroid,
theistic capitalism or atheistic communism?
What's wrong with atheistic capitalism?
Too much greed.
Oh, yea! Like the current, God-soaked Administration has been a model of
restraint and modesty!!
What makes you think they are "real" Christians
who do not worship power and money?
--
~Stumper
.
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| User: "MarkA" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC: WHO WILL DESTROY THE PLANET? SCIENCE OR FAITH, OR A COMBINATION OF BOTH? |
30 Mar 2007 10:12:17 AM |
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On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 19:56:09 -0400, stumper wrote:
MarkA wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 18:00:14 -0400, stumper wrote:
MarkA wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 17:43:00 -0400, stumper wrote:
Atheist Militia wrote:
Honestly, I think an asteroid has a better chance of destroying the
planet than either science or religion.
A more interesting question: "What has a better chance of stopping
the asteroid that is about to destroy the planet? Science or
religion?"
What has a better chance of developing a nation capable of stopping
the asteroid,
theistic capitalism or atheistic communism?
What's wrong with atheistic capitalism?
Too much greed.
Oh, yea! Like the current, God-soaked Administration has been a model
of restraint and modesty!!
What makes you think they are "real" Christians who do not worship power
and money?
Am I falling for the "No true Christian" fallacy?
--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
.
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| User: "Rob Brown" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC: WHO WILL DESTROY THE PLANET? SCIENCE OR FAITH, OR A COMBINATION OF BOTH? |
30 Mar 2007 12:26:05 PM |
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"MarkA" <manthony@stopspam.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.03.30.15.12.15.228359@stopspam.net...
On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 19:56:09 -0400, stumper wrote:
MarkA wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 18:00:14 -0400, stumper wrote:
MarkA wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 17:43:00 -0400, stumper wrote:
Atheist Militia wrote:
Honestly, I think an asteroid has a better chance of destroying the
planet than either science or religion.
A more interesting question: "What has a better chance of stopping
the asteroid that is about to destroy the planet? Science or
religion?"
What has a better chance of developing a nation capable of stopping
the asteroid,
theistic capitalism or atheistic communism?
What's wrong with atheistic capitalism?
Too much greed.
Oh, yea! Like the current, God-soaked Administration has been a model
of restraint and modesty!!
What makes you think they are "real" Christians who do not worship power
and money?
Am I falling for the "No true Christian" fallacy?
--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
They will trot out the numbers for who will answer yes to the question "Are
you a Christian?" to prove the USA is a "Christian Nation" and then deny
that anyone acting in a way they can't defend is a "true Christian".
Most citizens of the USA act nothing like Jesus Christ's words would have
you act. Certainly the current herd of political conservatives don't.
Unrestrained greed, support for torture, disdain for the poor and needy,
those are Christian values? Either there are Christians who do those things
or there are a lot less Christians in the USA than people who answer the
question yes.
From my perspective Christians are no different than anyone else except for
which magic guy in the sky they worship. Some are wonderful people and some
are the worst of humanity.
Rob Brown
.
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| User: "MarkA" |
|
| Title: Re: TOPIC: WHO WILL DESTROY THE PLANET? SCIENCE OR FAITH, OR A COMBINATION OF BOTH? |
31 Mar 2007 05:30:12 PM |
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On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 12:26:05 -0500, Rob Brown wrote:
"MarkA" <manthony@stopspam.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.03.30.15.12.15.228359@stopspam.net...
On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 19:56:09 -0400, stumper wrote:
MarkA wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 18:00:14 -0400, stumper wrote:
MarkA wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 17:43:00 -0400, stumper wrote:
Atheist Militia wrote:
Honestly, I think an asteroid has a better chance of destroying
the planet than either science or religion.
A more interesting question: "What has a better chance of
stopping the asteroid that is about to destroy the planet?
Science or religion?"
What has a better chance of developing a nation capable of stopping
the asteroid,
theistic capitalism or atheistic communism?
What's wrong with atheistic capitalism?
Too much greed.
Oh, yea! Like the current, God-soaked Administration has been a model
of restraint and modesty!!
What makes you think they are "real" Christians who do not worship
power and money?
Am I falling for the "No true Christian" fallacy?
--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
They will trot out the numbers for who will answer yes to the question
"Are
you a Christian?" to prove the USA is a "Christian Nation" and then deny
that anyone acting in a way they can't defend is a "true Christian".
Most citizens of the USA act nothing like Jesus Christ's words would
have
you act. Certainly the current herd of political conservatives don't.
Unrestrained greed, support for torture, disdain for the poor and needy,
those are Christian values? Either there are Christians who do those
things or there are a lot less Christians in the USA than people who
answer the question yes.
From my perspective Christians are no different than anyone else except
for
which magic guy in the sky they worship. Some are wonderful people and
some are the worst of humanity.
Rob Brown
I seem to recall that Jesus is alledged to have said that it would be
easier to pass a camel thru the eye of a needle than for a rich man to
enter the Kingdom of Heaven. There seem to be a lot of rich
self-proclaimed Christians who seem to believe they can pass camels thru
needles without breaking a sweat.
--
MarkA
(this space accidentally filled in)
.
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| User: "Don Martin" |
|
| Title: Re: TOPIC: WHO WILL DESTROY THE PLANET? SCIENCE OR FAITH, OR A COMBINATION OF BOTH? |
01 Apr 2007 10:37:45 AM |
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On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 17:30:12 -0500, MarkA <toor@nowhere.com> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 12:26:05 -0500, Rob Brown wrote:
"MarkA" <manthony@stopspam.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.03.30.15.12.15.228359@stopspam.net...
On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 19:56:09 -0400, stumper wrote:
MarkA wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 18:00:14 -0400, stumper wrote:
MarkA wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 17:43:00 -0400, stumper wrote:
Atheist Militia wrote:
Honestly, I think an asteroid has a better chance of destroying
the planet than either science or religion.
A more interesting question: "What has a better chance of
stopping the asteroid that is about to destroy the planet?
Science or religion?"
What has a better chance of developing a nation capable of stopping
the asteroid,
theistic capitalism or atheistic communism?
What's wrong with atheistic capitalism?
Too much greed.
Oh, yea! Like the current, God-soaked Administration has been a model
of restraint and modesty!!
What makes you think they are "real" Christians who do not worship
power and money?
Am I falling for the "No true Christian" fallacy?
--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
They will trot out the numbers for who will answer yes to the question
"Are
you a Christian?" to prove the USA is a "Christian Nation" and then deny
that anyone acting in a way they can't defend is a "true Christian".
Most citizens of the USA act nothing like Jesus Christ's words would
have
you act. Certainly the current herd of political conservatives don't.
Unrestrained greed, support for torture, disdain for the poor and needy,
those are Christian values? Either there are Christians who do those
things or there are a lot less Christians in the USA than people who
answer the question yes.
From my perspective Christians are no different than anyone else except
for
which magic guy in the sky they worship. Some are wonderful people and
some are the worst of humanity.
Rob Brown
I seem to recall that Jesus is alledged to have said that it would be
easier to pass a camel thru the eye of a needle than for a rich man to
enter the Kingdom of Heaven. There seem to be a lot of rich
self-proclaimed Christians who seem to believe they can pass camels thru
needles without breaking a sweat.
Once you have mastered getting your head past your anal sphincter,
camels are easy--you can even see what you are doing.
Through a jaundiced eye darkly--rheum with a view.
The Squeeky Wheel
http://home.comcast.net/~drdonmartin/
.
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| User: "Smiler" |
|
| Title: Re: TOPIC: WHO WILL DESTROY THE PLANET? SCIENCE OR FAITH, OR A COMBINATION OF BOTH? |
01 Apr 2007 08:40:07 PM |
|
|
"Don Martin" <drdonmartin@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:h8kv03pd1ku5lm1sm8m5efku906894rmsq@4ax.com...
On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 17:30:12 -0500, MarkA <toor@nowhere.com> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 12:26:05 -0500, Rob Brown wrote:
"MarkA" <manthony@stopspam.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.03.30.15.12.15.228359@stopspam.net...
On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 19:56:09 -0400, stumper wrote:
MarkA wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 18:00:14 -0400, stumper wrote:
MarkA wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 17:43:00 -0400, stumper wrote:
Atheist Militia wrote:
Honestly, I think an asteroid has a better chance of destroying
the planet than either science or religion.
A more interesting question: "What has a better chance of
stopping the asteroid that is about to destroy the planet?
Science or religion?"
What has a better chance of developing a nation capable of
stopping
the asteroid,
theistic capitalism or atheistic communism?
What's wrong with atheistic capitalism?
Too much greed.
Oh, yea! Like the current, God-soaked Administration has been a
model
of restraint and modesty!!
What makes you think they are "real" Christians who do not worship
power and money?
Am I falling for the "No true Christian" fallacy?
--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
They will trot out the numbers for who will answer yes to the question
"Are
you a Christian?" to prove the USA is a "Christian Nation" and then deny
that anyone acting in a way they can't defend is a "true Christian".
Most citizens of the USA act nothing like Jesus Christ's words would
have
you act. Certainly the current herd of political conservatives don't.
Unrestrained greed, support for torture, disdain for the poor and needy,
those are Christian values? Either there are Christians who do those
things or there are a lot less Christians in the USA than people who
answer the question yes.
From my perspective Christians are no different than anyone else except
for
which magic guy in the sky they worship. Some are wonderful people and
some are the worst of humanity.
Rob Brown
I seem to recall that Jesus is alledged to have said that it would be
easier to pass a camel thru the eye of a needle than for a rich man to
enter the Kingdom of Heaven. There seem to be a lot of rich
self-proclaimed Christians who seem to believe they can pass camels thru
needles without breaking a sweat.
Once you have mastered getting your head past your anal sphincter,
camels are easy--you can even see what you are doing.
All you need is a VERY BIG needle (or a VERY SMALL camel).
Smiler,
The godless one
.
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| User: "MarkA" |
|
| Title: Re: TOPIC: WHO WILL DESTROY THE PLANET? SCIENCE OR FAITH, OR A COMBINATION OF BOTH? |
02 Apr 2007 05:56:03 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 02 Apr 2007 01:40:07 +0000, Smiler wrote:
"Don Martin" <drdonmartin@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:h8kv03pd1ku5lm1sm8m5efku906894rmsq@4ax.com...
On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 17:30:12 -0500, MarkA <toor@nowhere.com> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 12:26:05 -0500, Rob Brown wrote:
"MarkA" <manthony@stopspam.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.03.30.15.12.15.228359@stopspam.net...
On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 19:56:09 -0400, stumper wrote:
MarkA wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 18:00:14 -0400, stumper wrote:
MarkA wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 17:43:00 -0400, stumper wrote:
Atheist Militia wrote:
Honestly, I think an asteroid has a better chance of destroying
the planet than either science or religion.
A more interesting question: "What has a better chance of
stopping the asteroid that is about to destroy the planet?
Science or religion?"
What has a better chance of developing a nation capable of
stopping
the asteroid,
theistic capitalism or atheistic communism?
What's wrong with atheistic capitalism?
Too much greed.
Oh, yea! Like the current, God-soaked Administration has been a
model
of restraint and modesty!!
What makes you think they are "real" Christians who do not worship
power and money?
Am I falling for the "No true Christian" fallacy?
--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
They will trot out the numbers for who will answer yes to the
question "Are
you a Christian?" to prove the USA is a "Christian Nation" and then
deny that anyone acting in a way they can't defend is a "true
Christian".
Most citizens of the USA act nothing like Jesus Christ's words would
have
you act. Certainly the current herd of political conservatives don't.
Unrestrained greed, support for torture, disdain for the poor and
needy, those are Christian values? Either there are Christians who do
those things or there are a lot less Christians in the USA than people
who answer the question yes.
From my perspective Christians are no different than anyone else
except for
which magic guy in the sky they worship. Some are wonderful people and
some are the worst of humanity.
Rob Brown
I seem to recall that Jesus is alledged to have said that it would be
easier to pass a camel thru the eye of a needle than for a rich man to
enter the Kingdom of Heaven. There seem to be a lot of rich
self-proclaimed Christians who seem to believe they can pass camels thru
needles without breaking a sweat.
Once you have mastered getting your head past your anal sphincter,
camels are easy--you can even see what you are doing.
All you need is a VERY BIG needle (or a VERY SMALL camel).
Smiler,
The godless one
One other possibility: normal size needle, normal size camel, and a cold
disregard for what kind of shape the camel is in after he has gone thru
the needle.
--
MarkA
(this space accidentally filled in)
.
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| User: "Atheist Militia" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC: WHO WILL DESTROY THE PLANET? SCIENCE OR FAITH, OR A COMBINATION OF BOTH? |
29 Mar 2007 05:34:38 PM |
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Yeah, see now "Which is more likely to destroy the planet, fear or
greed?" Now THAT is a question worth answering. The more important
question, of course, is "Why?"
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC: WHO WILL DESTROY THE PLANET? SCIENCE OR FAITH, OR A COMBINATION OF BOTH? |
29 Mar 2007 08:39:46 PM |
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On 29 Mar 2007 15:34:38 -0700, "Atheist Militia"
<alpha@atheistmission.com> claimed:
Yeah, see now "Which is more likely to destroy the planet, fear or
greed?" Now THAT is a question worth answering. The more important
question, of course, is "Why?"
The better question to ask is why an idiot like you thinks
that cross posting into Christian news groups doesn't make
you a troll.
Goodbye.
--
The torture of a bad conscience, is the Hell
of a living soul. - John Calvin
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