Religions > Atheism > TOPIC 2: DOES SCIENCE FOSTER DESTRUCTION IN THE AGE OF "REASON"?
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Jonathan Hartley" |
| Date: |
30 Mar 2007 09:20:06 AM |
| Object: |
TOPIC 2: DOES SCIENCE FOSTER DESTRUCTION IN THE AGE OF "REASON"? |
Question: Are scientists stooges for a consumerist society run amok,
selling out the secrets of uranium and enabling tyrant governments to
control every aspect of our lives? Let's consider:
In Sibling Society (1996) Robert Bly astutely describes American culture as
one of children who have never matured into adulthood, and where "adults
cling to self-absorbed adolescent values, television talk shows have more
clout than elders, children are spiritually abandoned to fend for
themselves, and in the place of community we have built shopping malls."
Only adolescents believe that they can have anything they want.
It's no secret that millions of human beings hate America. A large part of
the Islamic hatred of the west is because of our cultural sewage. It
destroyed Japanese culture and now it spills over to their shores. They see
the elite super rich excesses and the destruction of their culture by
consumerism, all brought to them courtesy of the unrestrained Gods of
science. They don't want our perfect world" conjured up by the wizards of
invention. Moreover, they don't want the naked, unabashed materialism that
inevitably accompanies technology.
People continue to saw away on the homily that religion is the root of all
evil, when perhaps they should be looking at themselves. They continue to
regurgitate on the horrors of 700 years ago, as if it is really relevant to
the problems of today. It is irresponsible science that has killed more
people in the 20th century by far than religion in the all the centuries
prior. Plus, it was science that facilitated those centuries too, providing
weapons for money. Scientists today place the newest technology in the
hands of adolescent cultures. To his credit, Einstein at least had the
decency to express regrets about the atom. Could the great genius have
foreseen the ultimate possible use of it by jihadists in the future? Islam
is a pragmatic faith whose outrage tends to be expressed in bold acts of
extreme violence. Worse yet, it nurtures an eschatology where the faithful
have a duty to START armageddon - not just wait for it as mainline
Christians do. Science has handed them the keys to fulfill their prophecy.
The cold war and consumerism and pollution and government intrusion and
nuclear annihilation and overpopulation- the greatest threats to mankind-
are the direct products of science serving the needs of greed and
capitalism. The philosophical derivatives of humanistic, so-called
"scientific" social models have enslaved billions upon billions of people
under communism. Whenever I consider the quack Karl Marx, I cannot but
laugh aloud at his self-proclaimed "science" of "dialectics." Have you
noticed how much that word sounds like one invented by the equally quackish
founder of Scientology?
Consider 9/11 not as some oddball conspiracy of "Jewish bankers" or "George
Bush's plot to invade Iraq." How about a scenario simply of frustrated
people LASHING out like frightened animals at an alien monster of
electronics and money. In their anger, they turned against it the most
advanced symbols of its technology. And ultimately they destroyed no one
but those who are just as much victims as anyone. Jihadists will continue
to lash out, again and again and again until they create a cheesy, low-tech
holocaust with the help of rogue science.
It will be the ultimate marriage of religion and science.
--
Jon
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| User: "wf3h" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC 2: DOES SCIENCE FOSTER DESTRUCTION IN THE AGE OF "REASON"? |
01 Apr 2007 01:46:18 PM |
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Jonathan Hartley wrote:
Question: Are scientists stooges for a consumerist society run amok,
selling out the secrets of uranium and enabling tyrant governments to
control every aspect of our lives?
you've mixed up cause and effect. and there's no proof we have a
consumerist society or that it's run amok.
Let's consider:
In Sibling Society (1996) Robert Bly astutely describes American culture as
one of children who have never matured into adulthood, and where "adults
cling to self-absorbed adolescent values, television talk shows have more
clout than elders, children are spiritually abandoned to fend for
themselves, and in the place of community we have built shopping malls."
Only adolescents believe that they can have anything they want.
whatever...no proof...merely assertions...
It's no secret that millions of human beings hate America. A large part of
the Islamic hatred of the west is because of our cultural sewage.
uh, no. again you've got it inverted. THEIR societies are sewers and
they hate us because we won't join them.
It
destroyed Japanese culture and now it spills over to their shores. They see
the elite super rich excesses and the destruction of their culture by
consumerism, all brought to them courtesy of the unrestrained Gods of
science.
as opposed to the unrestrained god of allah....
They don't want our perfect world" conjured up by the wizards of
invention.
racist to the core. who is this author to speak for them?
Moreover, they don't want the naked, unabashed materialism that
inevitably accompanies technology.
sure they do. they're buying it as fast as they can. in fact most of
them have satellite dishes hidden in their attics, come to the west to
study, etc.
People continue to saw away on the homily that religion is the root of all
evil, when perhaps they should be looking at themselves. They continue to
regurgitate on the horrors of 700 years ago, as if it is really relevant to
the problems of today. It is irresponsible science that has killed more
people in the 20th century by far than religion in the all the centuries
prior.
uh, no. killing was going on long before science was invented. science
merely gave religious fanatics a far more efficient way of killing...
Plus, it was science that facilitated those centuries too, providing
weapons for money. Scientists today place the newest technology in the
hands of adolescent cultures.
IOW scientists should restrain religious people from the barbarism
that is religion...and scientists are failing
boy what convoluted thinking THAT is...
To his credit, Einstein at least had the
decency to express regrets about the atom. Could the great genius have
foreseen the ultimate possible use of it by jihadists in the future? Islam
is a pragmatic faith whose outrage tends to be expressed in bold acts of
extreme violence. Worse yet, it nurtures an eschatology where the faithful
have a duty to START armageddon - not just wait for it as mainline
Christians do. Science has handed them the keys to fulfill their prophecy.
?? THEY have the religious beliefs. so you're saying that science
should be censored because religious fanatics may use it? you're
saying that the benefits of science should be denied to the human race
because religion is too immature to use it.
you're saying scientists should be more mature than religious
leaders...and somehow that proves religious leaders are more mature
than scientists...
uh huh...
The cold war and consumerism and pollution and government intrusion and
nuclear annihilation and overpopulation- the greatest threats to mankind-
are the direct products of science serving the needs of greed and
capitalism.
let's see...fascism, communism, and religion have killed more than
capitalism ever did....
Consider 9/11 not as some oddball conspiracy of "Jewish bankers" or "George
Bush's plot to invade Iraq." How about a scenario simply of frustrated
people LASHING out like frightened animals at an alien monster of
electronics and money. In their anger, they turned against it the most
advanced symbols of its technology. And ultimately they destroyed no one
but those who are just as much victims as anyone. Jihadists will continue
to lash out, again and again and again until they create a cheesy, low-tech
holocaust with the help of rogue science.
IOW he thinks mass murder didn't exist until science was
invented...religion was peaceful until then....
jesus...will religious fanatics EVER learn history?
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| User: "Jonathan Hartley" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC 2: DOES SCIENCE FOSTER DESTRUCTION IN THE AGE OF "REASON"? |
01 Apr 2007 03:44:44 PM |
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"wf3h" <wf3h@vsswireless.net> wrote in message
news:1175453178.116400.273630@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
Jonathan Hartley wrote:
Question: Are scientists stooges for a consumerist society run amok,
selling out the secrets of uranium and enabling tyrant governments to
control every aspect of our lives?
you've mixed up cause and effect. and there's no proof we have a
consumerist society or that it's run amok.
"Unmix" the cause and effect here and state your premise to the contrary.
(snip)
IOW he thinks mass murder didn't exist until science was
invented...religion was peaceful until then....
jesus...will religious fanatics EVER learn history?
Na. You are just reacting viscerally. I never said anything about religion
being peaceful.
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| User: "wf3h" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC 2: DOES SCIENCE FOSTER DESTRUCTION IN THE AGE OF "REASON"? |
01 Apr 2007 04:00:35 PM |
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Jonathan Hartley wrote:
"wf3h" <wf3h@vsswireless.net> wrote in message
you've mixed up cause and effect. and there's no proof we have a
consumerist society or that it's run amok.
"Unmix" the cause and effect here and state your premise to the contrary.
sigh...you know, it's no wonder religious fanatics' influence is
waning in the civilized world...this type of 'logic' shows why
jonathan...have you ever...even once...been in a logic class? it's not
MY job to disprove your contention...it's YOUR job to post evidence in
support of it. and you've failed
so, back to freshman logic with you and do, this time, try...i know it
will be hard for you...TRY to learn SOMETHING!
(snip)
IOW he thinks mass murder didn't exist until science was
invented...religion was peaceful until then....
jesus...will religious fanatics EVER learn history?
Na. You are just reacting viscerally. I never said anything about religion
being peaceful.
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| User: "Jonathan Hartley" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC 2: DOES SCIENCE FOSTER DESTRUCTION IN THE AGE OF "REASON"? |
01 Apr 2007 04:25:31 PM |
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"wf3h" <wf3h@vsswireless.net> wrote in message
news:1175461235.543887.80120@d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Jonathan Hartley wrote:
you've mixed up cause and effect. and there's no proof we have a
consumerist society or that it's run amok.
sigh...you know, it's no wonder religious fanatics' influence is
waning in the civilized world...this type of 'logic' shows why
I'm not a religious fanatic, *****. ***** you and your "sigh". What I
asked you to do, idiot, is explain why you say I've mixed up cause and
effect. I mean, since you make this statement, my assumption is that you
can verbalize what you mean.
jonathan...have you ever...even once...been in a logic class? it's not
MY job to disprove your contention...it's YOUR job to post evidence in
support of it. and you've failed
You're being boring.
IOW he thinks mass murder didn't exist until science was
invented...religion was peaceful until then....
jesus...will religious fanatics EVER learn history?
Na. You are just reacting viscerally. I never said anything about
religion
being peaceful.
I notice you didn't care to comment after being body slammed for your
inability to read, Mr. Spock. Why don't you get off the usenet and resume
writing your Harvard graduate thesis in logic. Not. Now, fix me a burger
with fries and don't forget the onions this time, boy.
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| User: "Alric Knebel" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC 2: DOES SCIENCE FOSTER DESTRUCTION IN THE AGE OF "REASON"? |
04 Apr 2007 06:44:40 AM |
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Jonathan Hartley wrote:
"wf3h" <wf3h@vsswireless.net> wrote in message
news:1175461235.543887.80120@d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Jonathan Hartley wrote:
you've mixed up cause and effect. and there's no proof we have a
consumerist society or that it's run amok.
sigh...you know, it's no wonder religious fanatics' influence is
waning in the civilized world...this type of 'logic' shows why
I'm not a religious fanatic, *****. ***** you and your "sigh". What I
asked you to do, idiot, is explain why you say I've mixed up cause and
effect. I mean, since you make this statement, my assumption is that you
can verbalize what you mean.
You're not a religious fanatic, *****? Didn't you analyze the proper
attitude toward "hell" in another post? I'm sure you did. To us
normal, healthy people, to give credence to such a discussion is
evidence of some level of at least religious stupidity BORDERING on
fanaticism.
--
______________________________________________
Alric Knebel
http://www.ironeyefortress.com/C-SPAN_loon.html
http://www.ironeyefortress.com
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| User: "Jonathan Hartley" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC 2: DOES SCIENCE FOSTER DESTRUCTION IN THE AGE OF "REASON"? |
19 Apr 2007 06:12:50 PM |
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"Alric Knebel" <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote in message
news:13173t9ljbparae@corp.supernews.com...
You're not a religious fanatic, *****? Didn't you analyze the proper
attitude toward "hell" in another post? I'm sure you did. To us normal,
healthy people, to give credence to such a discussion is evidence of some
level of at least religious stupidity BORDERING on fanaticism.
I know. Your little peepee got hard when you saw that post, didn't it
Alric? Yep, you thought had me cold. So, you ran around the room doing a
fist pump, stepping all over your barbecued potato chips and Penthouse
magazines until Mom came in to find out what was wrong. But, I fragged you
in the other thread on Mexico, and you can't fucking stand it. You've got
to one up me, don't you Mr. Spock!
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| User: "Ralph" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC 2: DOES SCIENCE FOSTER DESTRUCTION IN THE AGE OF "REASON"? |
10 Apr 2007 04:30:40 PM |
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"Jonathan Hartley" <jhartley@knology.net> wrote in message
news:4ef2$461ac874$1860a0d0$18107@KNOLOGY.NET...
"Alric Knebel" <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote in message
news:13173t9ljbparae@corp.supernews.com...
You're not a religious fanatic, *****? Didn't you analyze the proper
attitude toward "hell" in another post? I'm sure you did. To us normal,
healthy people, to give credence to such a discussion is evidence of some
level of at least religious stupidity BORDERING on fanaticism.
I know. Your little peepee got hard when you saw that post, didn't it
Alric? Yep, you thought had me cold. So, you ran around the room doing a
fist pump, stepping all over your barbecued potato chips and Penthouse
magazines until Mom came in to find out what was wrong. But, I fragged
you in the other thread on Mexico, and you can't fucking stand it. You've
got to one up me, don't you Mr. Spock!
Well Johnny, you didn't frag me. I'm still here.
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| User: "Alric Knebel" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC 2: DOES SCIENCE FOSTER DESTRUCTION IN THE AGE OF "REASON"? |
04 Apr 2007 06:42:14 AM |
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Jonathan Hartley wrote:
"wf3h" <wf3h@vsswireless.net> wrote in message
news:1175453178.116400.273630@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
Jonathan Hartley wrote:
Question: Are scientists stooges for a consumerist society run amok,
selling out the secrets of uranium and enabling tyrant governments to
control every aspect of our lives?
you've mixed up cause and effect. and there's no proof we have a
consumerist society or that it's run amok.
"Unmix" the cause and effect here and state your premise to the contrary.
(snip)
IOW he thinks mass murder didn't exist until science was
invented...religion was peaceful until then....
jesus...will religious fanatics EVER learn history?
Na. You are just reacting viscerally. I never said anything about religion
being peaceful.
Oh, my! He's being oblique! Look, everybody! Quick!
--
______________________________________________
Alric Knebel
http://www.ironeyefortress.com/C-SPAN_loon.html
http://www.ironeyefortress.com
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| User: "Jonathan Hartley" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC 2: DOES SCIENCE FOSTER DESTRUCTION IN THE AGE OF "REASON"? |
19 Apr 2007 06:03:26 PM |
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"Alric Knebel" <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote in message
news:13173onduno0r8b@corp.supernews.com...
Oh, my! He's being oblique! Look, everybody! Quick!
I body slammed your *****, and you are mad. Mexican conspiracy my *****.... Go
away, ignorant, boy. Shine my shoes. Mop the floor. You're cooked.
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| User: "Ralph" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC 2: DOES SCIENCE FOSTER DESTRUCTION IN THE AGE OF "REASON"? |
10 Apr 2007 04:31:39 PM |
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"Jonathan Hartley" <jhartley@knology.net> wrote in message
news:d037$461ac63d$1860a0d0$17303@KNOLOGY.NET...
"Alric Knebel" <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote in message
news:13173onduno0r8b@corp.supernews.com...
Oh, my! He's being oblique! Look, everybody! Quick!
I body slammed your *****, and you are mad. Mexican conspiracy my *****....
Go away, ignorant, boy. Shine my shoes. Mop the floor. You're cooked.
Sure you did Johnny, sure you did. You fundies always did have vivid
imaginations.
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| User: "Alric Knebel" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC 2: DOES SCIENCE FOSTER DESTRUCTION IN THE AGE OF "REASON"? |
01 Apr 2007 12:18:23 PM |
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Jonathan Hartley wrote:
Question: Are scientists stooges for a consumerist society run amok,
selling out the secrets of uranium and enabling tyrant governments to
control every aspect of our lives? Let's consider:
In Sibling Society (1996) Robert Bly astutely describes American culture as
one of children who have never matured into adulthood, and where "adults
cling to self-absorbed adolescent values, television talk shows have more
clout than elders, children are spiritually abandoned to fend for
themselves, and in the place of community we have built shopping malls."
Only adolescents believe that they can have anything they want.
All glossy generalities appealing to hypercritical nincompoops looking
for something to vent and rail against. But you read it in a "book" so
you feel "smart" quoting it. LOL!
--
______________________________________________
Alric Knebel
http://www.ironeyefortress.com/C-SPAN_loon.html
http://www.ironeyefortress.com
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| User: "Jonathan Hartley" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC 2: DOES SCIENCE FOSTER DESTRUCTION IN THE AGE OF "REASON"? |
01 Apr 2007 03:48:44 PM |
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"Alric Knebel" <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote in message
news:130vqb0gne695f9@corp.supernews.com...
Jonathan Hartley wrote:
Question: Are scientists stooges for a consumerist society run amok,
selling out the secrets of uranium and enabling tyrant governments to
control every aspect of our lives? Let's consider:
In Sibling Society (1996) Robert Bly astutely describes American culture
as one of children who have never matured into adulthood, and where
"adults cling to self-absorbed adolescent values, television talk shows
have more clout than elders, children are spiritually abandoned to fend
for themselves, and in the place of community we have built shopping
malls." Only adolescents believe that they can have anything they want.
All glossy generalities appealing to hypercritical nincompoops looking for
something to vent and rail against. But you read it in a "book" so you
feel "smart" quoting it. LOL!
Hey, if you ever read a book you'll discover just how easy it is to want to
talk about it. And, as you mature, you and Rosie O'Donnell and Alec Baldwin
will learn to actually investigate before you blather. But, you ran from
the other thread when I body slammed you, because you couldn't handle the
discussion. So, don't come back to me anymore. I'm blocking your posts
from this point so you're wasting your time.
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| User: "Alric Knebel" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC 2: DOES SCIENCE FOSTER DESTRUCTION IN THE AGE OF "REASON"? |
04 Apr 2007 06:40:53 AM |
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Jonathan Hartley wrote:
"Alric Knebel" <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote in message
news:130vqb0gne695f9@corp.supernews.com...
Jonathan Hartley wrote:
Question: Are scientists stooges for a consumerist society run amok,
selling out the secrets of uranium and enabling tyrant governments to
control every aspect of our lives? Let's consider:
In Sibling Society (1996) Robert Bly astutely describes American culture
as one of children who have never matured into adulthood, and where
"adults cling to self-absorbed adolescent values, television talk shows
have more clout than elders, children are spiritually abandoned to fend
for themselves, and in the place of community we have built shopping
malls." Only adolescents believe that they can have anything they want.
All glossy generalities appealing to hypercritical nincompoops looking for
something to vent and rail against. But you read it in a "book" so you
feel "smart" quoting it. LOL!
Hey, if you ever read a book you'll discover just how easy it is to want to
talk about it. And, as you mature, you and Rosie O'Donnell and Alec Baldwin
will learn to actually investigate before you blather. But, you ran from
the other thread when I body slammed you, because you couldn't handle the
discussion. So, don't come back to me anymore. I'm blocking your posts
from this point so you're wasting your time.
I've read lots of books, and they don't talk in the glossy generalities
appealing to lowest common right-wing denominator. (I was going to say
"appealing to hoi polloi," but that would have been unfair to hoi
polloi.) You're an empty-headed dolt someone has dumped a lot of silly
stuff into, and out of your inherent spitefulness, you're more than
eager to let them because it matches the crap you feel inside. Note
your right-wing-stupid fixation on celebrities. That's all the proof I
need right there that you haven't got a clue what you're talking about,
and you never will. Not without a real epiphany, anyway.
--
______________________________________________
Alric Knebel
http://www.ironeyefortress.com/C-SPAN_loon.html
http://www.ironeyefortress.com
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| User: "Jonathan Hartley" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC 2: DOES SCIENCE FOSTER DESTRUCTION IN THE AGE OF "REASON"? |
19 Apr 2007 06:00:59 PM |
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"Alric Knebel" <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote in message
news:13173m6paj83r75@corp.supernews.com...
eager to let them because it matches the crap you feel inside. Note your
right-wing-stupid fixation on celebrities. That's all the proof I need
right there that you haven't got a clue what you're talking about, and you
never will. Not without a real epiphany, anyway.
Nope. You're pissed because I body slammed your ***** through the mat on the
Mexico issue. BTW, I'm still waiting to hear more about that ridiculous
Rosie O'Donnell conspiracy of big corporations exploiting all the Mexicans.
I body slammed your *****. And you can't stand it.
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| User: "Jonathan Hartley" |
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| Title: FARWELL TO THE VAST WASTELAND OF THE USELESSNET DEBATES |
16 Apr 2007 11:18:18 AM |
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Well, it has been an interesting few weeks. And my premise has been proven
more than enough. The state of creation/evolution, theism vs. atheism
debates on the Usenet is truly useless. Both sides are populated by
narrow-minded, unfocused individuals with more rhetorical jingoism than true
exploration of fact. I feel sad for them in a way, but I realize it's
probably just a phase many need to go through. I noticed that the more
reasonable people here, such as Sunny or Frank, tend to post less often.
The abusive Nazis on the other hand, such as Alric and Apobetics, tend to be
a constant fixture looking to vent mental redneckisms. I think that is
extremely revealing. I would bet that it indicates the level of personal
anger and life frustration that these individuals feel. Having no tangible
outlets, and unable to cultivate true healthy relationships, they focus
instead on destructive behaviours in the non-personal abstract cyber-world.
I never held out much hope that I would impact the attitudes of rigid
fundamentalists of either the anti-theist or theist variety. All I can say
is that many should read some good world history books and broaden your
perspectives. Realize the world is much more multi-faceted than the one in
your mind of bigotry. People are so much more complex and .... human. Some
attitudes here are truly dangerous. The more vehement attitudes tend to
come NOT from the creationist side. Their threats lend credence to the
voices of suppression on both sides of the political fence. But, I suspect
the more strident and unapproachable people, like Alric, Wombat and
Tikitiki-whatever, are actually adolescents posing as adults and they're
just eager to share the enthusiastic venom of their college or high school
teachers. Well, have fun with the "discussions" and try to move on to a
life beyond the keyboard. Perhaps I'll check in when I take my next
vacation who knows when....
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| User: "Alric Knebel" |
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| Title: Re: FARWELL TO THE VAST WASTELAND OF THE USELESSNET DEBATES |
20 Apr 2007 09:53:54 PM |
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Jonathan Hartley wrote:
Well, it has been an interesting few weeks.
And you were trounced pretty damned good, too. Good riddance, you
pretentious *****.
--
______________________________________________
Alric Knebel
http://www.ironeyefortress.com/C-SPAN_loon.html
http://www.ironeyefortress.com
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: FARWELL TO THE VAST WASTELAND OF THE USELESSNET DEBATES |
16 Apr 2007 07:39:19 PM |
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On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 12:18:18 -0400 there was an Ancient "Jonathan
Hartley" <jhartley@knology.net> who stoppeth one in alt.atheism
Well, it has been an interesting few weeks. And my premise has been proven
more than enough. The state of creation/evolution, theism vs. atheism
debates on the Usenet is truly useless.
Here, let me staple your hand to your forehead for you..
ka-THUNK!
Oh, dear.. did I use the nail gun by mistake? My bad!
Well, no charge for the frontal lobotomy, and the door is that way.
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2011
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the
source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a
stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as
good as dead: his eyes are closed." - Albert Einstein
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| User: "Tiktaalik" |
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| Title: Re: FARWELL TO THE VAST WASTELAND OF THE USELESSNET DEBATES |
19 Apr 2007 08:32:55 PM |
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On Apr 16, 5:18 pm, "Jonathan Hartley" <jhart...@knology.net> wrote:
Snip the inevitable raving
But, I suspect
the more strident and unapproachable people, like Alric, Wombat and
Tikitiki-whatever,
It's TIKTAALIK o intellectually challenged one. Can't you get
ANYTHING
right? And YOU talk about educating ME!!!!
are actually adolescents posing as adults and they're
just eager to share the enthusiastic venom of their college or high school
teachers.
Wrong as usual.
Well, have fun with the "discussions" and try to move on to a
life beyond the keyboard.
And what do we have here? A little "do as I say, not as I do"?
Perhaps I'll check in when I take my next
vacation who knows when....
Oh please, please, please NO!!!!
"I am in favour of animal rights as well as human rights. That is the
way of a whole human being". (Abraham Lincoln).
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: FARWELL TO THE VAST WASTELAND OF THE USELESSNET DEBATES |
16 Apr 2007 10:05:16 PM |
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On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 12:18:18 -0400, "Jonathan Hartley"
<jhartley@knology.net> claimed:
Well, it has been an interesting few weeks. And my premise has been proven
more than enough. The state of creation/evolution, theism vs. atheism
debates on the Usenet is truly useless. Both sides are populated by
narrow-minded, unfocused individuals with more rhetorical jingoism than true
exploration of fact.
No one is going to say, "Let me toss aside God for John H".
--
The torture of a bad conscience, is the Hell
of a living soul. - John Calvin
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| User: "Scott Richter" |
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| Title: Re: FARWELL TO THE VAST WASTELAND OF THE USELESSNET DEBATES |
18 Apr 2007 11:38:39 AM |
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Pastor Dave <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:
No one is going to say, "Let me toss aside God for John H".
Unlike God, there is at least some evidence John H exists...
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| User: "Alric Knebel" |
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| Title: Re: FARWELL TO THE VAST WASTELAND OF THE USELESSNET DEBATES |
20 Apr 2007 09:59:23 PM |
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Pastor Dave wrote:
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 12:18:18 -0400, "Jonathan Hartley"
<jhartley@knology.net> claimed:
Well, it has been an interesting few weeks. And my premise has been proven
more than enough. The state of creation/evolution, theism vs. atheism
debates on the Usenet is truly useless. Both sides are populated by
narrow-minded, unfocused individuals with more rhetorical jingoism than true
exploration of fact.
No one is going to say, "Let me toss aside God for John H".
I'm now trying to figure out what "rhetorical jingoism" is. I never got
past the first two lines of his post. Once I saw where it was going, I
quit. Then I started reading people's responses to it. The quotes
reveal his penchant for bloviation. He's trying so hard to keep his
head up, when in reality he knows most regarded him as a joke.
I like what one guy said about him, when the other guy accused him of
being (in my own words) a flat-headed Christian. When Jonathan tried to
mock him for calling him a fundie, the other guy said, "It's a duck
thing." Yep. That sums it up.
--
______________________________________________
Alric Knebel
http://www.ironeyefortress.com/C-SPAN_loon.html
http://www.ironeyefortress.com
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: FARWELL TO THE VAST WASTELAND OF THE USELESSNET DEBATES |
16 Apr 2007 06:45:55 PM |
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On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 12:18:18 -0400, "Jonathan Hartley"
<jhartley@knology.net> wrote:
- Refer: <4a289$4623a1d1$1860a0d0$2875@KNOLOGY.NET>
Well, it has been an interesting few weeks. And my premise has been proven
more than enough. The state of creation/evolution, theism vs. atheism
debates on the Usenet is truly useless. Both sides are populated by
narrow-minded, unfocused individuals with more rhetorical jingoism than true
exploration of fact.
:
How will you fit your massive ego through the exit door?
Here let me help you with a solid kick up the backside...
--
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| User: "Tiktaalik" |
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| Title: Re: FARWELL TO THE VAST WASTELAND OF THE USELESSNET DEBATES |
19 Apr 2007 08:41:42 PM |
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On Apr 17, 12:45 am, Michael Gray <mikeg...@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 12:18:18 -0400, "Jonathan Hartley"<jhart...@knology.net> wrote:
- Refer: <4a289$4623a1d1$1860a0d0$2...@KNOLOGY.NET>
Well, it has been an interesting few weeks. And my premise has been proven
more than enough. The state of creation/evolution, theism vs. atheism
debates on the Usenet is truly useless. Both sides are populated by
narrow-minded, unfocused individuals with more rhetorical jingoism than true
exploration of fact.
:
How will you fit your massive ego through the exit door?
Here let me help you with a solid kick up the backside...
You do realise that your doing so could cause him severe, possibly
irreversible, brain damage don't you?
"I am in favour of animal rights as well as human rights. That is the
way of a whole human being". (Abraham Lincoln).
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: FARWELL TO THE VAST WASTELAND OF THE USELESSNET DEBATES |
16 Apr 2007 07:20:16 PM |
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On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 09:15:55 +0930, Michael Gray
<mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 12:18:18 -0400, "Jonathan Hartley"
<jhartley@knology.net> wrote:
- Refer: <4a289$4623a1d1$1860a0d0$2875@KNOLOGY.NET>
Well, it has been an interesting few weeks. And my premise has been proven
more than enough. The state of creation/evolution, theism vs. atheism
debates on the Usenet is truly useless. Both sides are populated by
narrow-minded, unfocused individuals with more rhetorical jingoism than true
exploration of fact.
:
How will you fit your massive ego through the exit door?
Here let me help you with a solid kick up the backside...
I'll be only toooooooooooooo pleased to hold the door open for
you!!!!!!!!!!!!
One --- two --- three --- KICK!!!!!!!!!! :o)
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| User: "Clothaire" |
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| Title: Re: FARWELL TO THE VAST WASTELAND OF THE USELESSNET DEBATES |
16 Apr 2007 02:27:42 PM |
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On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 12:18:18 -0400, "Jonathan Hartley"
<jhartley@knology.net> wrote:
Well, it has been an interesting few weeks. And my premise has been proven
more than enough. The state of creation/evolution, theism vs. atheism
debates on the Usenet is truly useless. Both sides are populated by
narrow-minded, unfocused individuals with more rhetorical jingoism than true
exploration of fact. I feel sad for them in a way, but I realize it's
probably just a phase many need to go through. I noticed that the more
reasonable people here, such as Sunny or Frank, tend to post less often.
The abusive Nazis on the other hand, such as Alric and Apobetics, tend to be
a constant fixture looking to vent mental redneckisms. I think that is
extremely revealing. I would bet that it indicates the level of personal
anger and life frustration that these individuals feel. Having no tangible
outlets, and unable to cultivate true healthy relationships, they focus
instead on destructive behaviours in the non-personal abstract cyber-world.
I never held out much hope that I would impact the attitudes of rigid
fundamentalists of either the anti-theist or theist variety. All I can say
is that many should read some good world history books and broaden your
perspectives. Realize the world is much more multi-faceted than the one in
your mind of bigotry. People are so much more complex and .... human. Some
attitudes here are truly dangerous. The more vehement attitudes tend to
come NOT from the creationist side. Their threats lend credence to the
voices of suppression on both sides of the political fence. But, I suspect
the more strident and unapproachable people, like Alric, Wombat and
Tikitiki-whatever, are actually adolescents posing as adults and they're
just eager to share the enthusiastic venom of their college or high school
teachers. Well, have fun with the "discussions" and try to move on to a
life beyond the keyboard. Perhaps I'll check in when I take my next
vacation who knows when....
Overblown hubris. Thanks for leaving.
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| User: "Davej" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC 2: DOES SCIENCE FOSTER DESTRUCTION IN THE AGE OF "REASON"? |
16 Apr 2007 07:22:32 PM |
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On Mar 30, 9:20 am, "Jonathan Hartley" <jhart...@knology.net> wrote:
Question: Are scientists stooges for a consumerist society run amok,
selling out the secrets of uranium and enabling tyrant governments to
control every aspect of our lives?
[...]
Is anyone wearing a scarlet letter? Being burned at the stake? That is
society truly running amok.
Consider 9/11 not as some oddball conspiracy of "Jewish bankers" or "George
Bush's plot to invade Iraq." How about a scenario simply of frustrated
people LASHING out like frightened animals at an alien monster of
electronics and money.
[...]
Frustrated RELIGIOUS FUNDAMENTALISTS lashing out.
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| User: "scooter" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC 2: DOES SCIENCE FOSTER DESTRUCTION IN THE AGE OF "REASON"? |
01 Apr 2007 04:29:04 PM |
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On Mar 30, 9:20 am, "Jonathan Hartley" <jhart...@knology.net> wrote:
Question: Are scientists stooges for a consumerist society run amok,
selling out the secrets of uranium and enabling tyrant governments to
control every aspect of our lives? Let's consider:
In Sibling Society (1996) Robert Bly astutely describes American culture as
one of children who have never matured into adulthood, and where "adults
cling to self-absorbed adolescent values, television talk shows have more
clout than elders, children are spiritually abandoned to fend for
themselves, and in the place of community we have built shopping malls."
Only adolescents believe that they can have anything they want.
It's no secret that millions of human beings hate America. A large part of
the Islamic hatred of the west is because of our cultural sewage. It
destroyed Japanese culture and now it spills over to their shores. They see
the elite super rich excesses and the destruction of their culture by
consumerism, all brought to them courtesy of the unrestrained Gods of
science. They don't want our perfect world" conjured up by the wizards of
invention. Moreover, they don't want the naked, unabashed materialism that
inevitably accompanies technology.
People continue to saw away on the homily that religion is the root of all
evil, when perhaps they should be looking at themselves. They continue to
regurgitate on the horrors of 700 years ago, as if it is really relevant to
the problems of today. It is irresponsible science that has killed more
people in the 20th century by far than religion in the all the centuries
prior. Plus, it was science that facilitated those centuries too, providing
weapons for money. Scientists today place the newest technology in the
hands of adolescent cultures. To his credit, Einstein at least had the
decency to express regrets about the atom. Could the great genius have
foreseen the ultimate possible use of it by jihadists in the future? Islam
is a pragmatic faith whose outrage tends to be expressed in bold acts of
extreme violence. Worse yet, it nurtures an eschatology where the faithful
have a duty to START armageddon - not just wait for it as mainline
Christians do. Science has handed them the keys to fulfill their prophecy.
The cold war and consumerism and pollution and government intrusion and
nuclear annihilation and overpopulation- the greatest threats to mankind-
are the direct products of science serving the needs of greed and
capitalism. The philosophical derivatives of humanistic, so-called
"scientific" social models have enslaved billions upon billions of people
under communism. Whenever I consider the quack Karl Marx, I cannot but
laugh aloud at his self-proclaimed "science" of "dialectics." Have you
noticed how much that word sounds like one invented by the equally quackish
founder of Scientology?
Consider 9/11 not as some oddball conspiracy of "Jewish bankers" or "George
Bush's plot to invade Iraq." How about a scenario simply of frustrated
people LASHING out like frightened animals at an alien monster of
electronics and money. In their anger, they turned against it the most
advanced symbols of its technology. And ultimately they destroyed no one
but those who are just as much victims as anyone. Jihadists will continue
to lash out, again and again and again until they create a cheesy, low-tech
holocaust with the help of rogue science.
It will be the ultimate marriage of religion and science.
--
Jon
You are one convoluted guy. I would submit to you that capitalism is
indeed one of the ills of society but that has nothing to do with
science or scientists. Something else I found strange about this
wildly inaccurate piece is that Karl Marx was the biggest critic of
capitalism. So, I'm not sure why you think degrading him with ad
hominems somehow supports this uneducated piece of nonsense. Even more
interesting is is the fact that the author of this essay seems to
think he is above the "quakery" of Marx. Strangely enough, Marx is as
widely respected a sociologist as has ever lived in any academic
arena. I wonder where this piece of ***** paper stands amoung any
academic standrds? On a 100 point scale, I'd score it about a 30
percentile only because you actually turned it in.
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| User: "Jonathan Hartley" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC 2: DOES SCIENCE FOSTER DESTRUCTION IN THE AGE OF "REASON"? |
01 Apr 2007 05:00:37 PM |
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"scooter" <scooter.leto@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1175462943.956099.134310@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
You are one convoluted guy. I would submit to you that capitalism is
indeed one of the ills of society but that has nothing to do with
science or scientists.
I think this is a valid topic to discuss. Hopefully, you read the first
topic I posted the other day. My post wasn't really a statement against
capitalism, per se. But, a statement about consumerism and materialism and
whether it is enabled by unrestrained science. Captialism and
hyper-consumerism don't necessarily have to go together. As far as science
goes, I would say that the top five global problems caused by industrialized
nations are directly or indirectly related to science and technology run
amok and to rogue science for sale to the highest bidder, including to
religious fanatics..
Something else I found strange about this
wildly inaccurate piece is that Karl Marx was the biggest critic of
capitalism. So, I'm not sure why you think degrading him with ad
hominems somehow supports this uneducated piece of nonsense.
The answer for that is simple. I'm not an anti-capitalist and you didn't
understand that. You were making the assumption that I hate capitalism and
therefore should be nothing but gushing and complementary about Marx? You
assumed anti-capitalism equates to an appreciation of Marx, but that's
typical American jingoism. People also can't understand how I can be
critical of both religion and science and Democrats and Republicans. You
are supposed to love one and hate the other. Idiots like wf3h and Alric who
posted a bit earlier on this thread, for example, reason that I must be a
"religious fanatic" because I'm not agreeing with them, or having
hyperventilations about Pat Robertson.
interesting is is the fact that the author of this essay seems to
think he is above the "quakery" of Marx. Strangely enough, Marx is as
widely respected a sociologist as has ever lived in any academic
arena.
I am the author of this essay. But, I understand you disagree. And, please
don't assume these are the ideas expressed by Bly in his book.
I wonder where this piece of ***** paper stands amoung any
academic standrds? On a 100 point scale, I'd score it about a 30
percentile only because you actually turned it in.
Don't spend too much time wondering about that, as it is not a paper. It's
just a topic sentence. And, it is a piece of ***** by academic standards
because this is the usenet, scooter. The usenet is a vast commode of
pointless diversion for bored consumerists. And, since you didn't seem to
get my thesis statement, I take it you're not an English professor.
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| User: "Alric Knebel" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC 2: DOES SCIENCE FOSTER DESTRUCTION IN THE AGE OF "REASON"? |
04 Apr 2007 06:46:40 AM |
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Jonathan Hartley wrote:
"scooter" <scooter.leto@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1175462943.956099.134310@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
You are one convoluted guy. I would submit to you that capitalism is
indeed one of the ills of society but that has nothing to do with
science or scientists.
I think this is a valid topic to discuss. Hopefully, you read the first
topic I posted the other day. My post wasn't really a statement against
capitalism, per se. But, a statement about consumerism and materialism and
whether it is enabled by unrestrained science. Captialism and
hyper-consumerism don't necessarily have to go together. As far as science
goes, I would say that the top five global problems caused by industrialized
nations are directly or indirectly related to science and technology run
amok and to rogue science for sale to the highest bidder, including to
religious fanatics..
Gobbledygook, scooter. All of it.
--
______________________________________________
Alric Knebel
http://www.ironeyefortress.com/C-SPAN_loon.html
http://www.ironeyefortress.com
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| User: "Jonathan Hartley" |
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| Title: Re: TOPIC 2: DOES SCIENCE FOSTER DESTRUCTION IN THE AGE OF "REASON"? |
19 Apr 2007 06:05:24 PM |
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"Alric Knebel" <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote in message
news:13174118e2qukc8@corp.supernews.com...
Gobbledygook, scooter. All of it.
I body slammed your ***** in the previous thread. You ran away. Shine my
shoes, Rastus.
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